ConwayLife.com - A community for Conway's Game of Life and related cellular automata
Home  •  LifeWiki  •  Forums  •  Download Golly

Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

For discussion of other cellular automata.

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby wildmyron » September 9th, 2017, 10:33 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is there a pattern other than the dot, domino or other symmetric patterns that can't be a spaceship in any non-totalistic rule?

Presuming that your question is about isotropic non-totalistic rules, then calcyman answered this question conclusively, and in the affirmative, here. There was some further discussion around the topic (restricted to isotropic rules without B0) in that thread as well.

muzik wrote:Any pattern can be a spaceship in some non-isotropic rules, which are non-totalistic.

I'm pretty sure gameoflifemaniac is referring to isotropic, non-totalistic rules, where the dot and domino cannot be a spaceship.

Saka wrote:
muzik wrote:Any pattern can be a spaceship in some non-isotropic rules, which are non-totalistic.

Not sure about that. What about this:
x = 93, y = 81, rule = B/S01234678
76bo$76bo55$o24$91b2o!

That pattern is certainly a spaceship in some non-isotropic, non-totalistic rule - so it doesn't serve as a counter example to muzik's statement. Even if you restrict consideration to isotropic rules, I don't think you can simply rule out that it might be a spaceship in some rule. For example, here is a pattern made of two isolated dominos which is a spaceship in an isotropic rule with B0:
x = 5, y = 5, rule = B02c3e6e/S1e
4bo$4bo3$2o!

It seems it would be extremely unlikely for the two domino + dot pattern to be a spaceship in some isotropic rule, but I don't think you can rule it out without a proof or actually testing a large majority of the B0 rules which support spaceships (some of them you'd be able to rule out without testing explicitly, I'm sure).

By the way, Thank you to the people who contributed to discussion of this topic in the other thread (who hopefully read this thread too!), and apologies for not participating in the discussion. I've still got lots of thoughts about this which I'm trying to straighten out in my head.

Edit:
Here's another example with larger spacing:
x = 6, y = 6, rule = B02c3ry4qtwz6e/S02an4r5r6n
5bo$5bo4$2o!


And another without the diagonal symmetry:
x = 5, y = 6, rule = B01e2-a3j4ay5ac6ai8/S1c4k
4bo$4bo4$2o!
wildmyron
 
Posts: 585
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby wildmyron » September 9th, 2017, 1:30 pm

Saka wrote:Has anybody tried to make a WLS/Gfind/Zfind-ish spaceship search program for LTL rules?

I believe the answer to that is no. I think that for a gfind/zfind style program the larger neighbourhood will make the program a lot more complicated. I imagine that range 2 is probably manageable, but I say that with no experience of designing this kind of program.
wildmyron
 
Posts: 585
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby muzik » September 9th, 2017, 2:19 pm

What is the name for the fractal this generates?

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B13/S024V
o!
2c/n spaceships project

Current priorities: see here
muzik
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby muzik » September 14th, 2017, 6:19 am

2c/n spaceships project

Current priorities: see here
muzik
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby Rhombic » September 15th, 2017, 1:00 pm

Is there a limit for the highest possible period spaceship such that all phases have the same population?
If so, what is it. Otherwise, what is the highest period spaceship that fulfils this description that has been discovered?
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 770
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby muzik » October 4th, 2017, 8:37 am

muzik wrote:Are there any known 1D replicators where the central replicator stays alive after every replication cycle, resembling a one-dimensional version of the Fredkin rule and simulating Wolfram rule 150?

Seems like the fits the description:

x = 3, y = 1, rule = B02aci6i/S1e5i
3o!


Anyone willing to make a "Sierpinski generator" equivalent in rules where this works?
2c/n spaceships project

Current priorities: see here
muzik
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby muzik » October 13th, 2017, 8:51 am

Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0?

And on that subject, (2,2)c/4?
2c/n spaceships project

Current priorities: see here
muzik
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby gameoflifemaniac » October 13th, 2017, 9:17 am

Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
User avatar
gameoflifemaniac
 
Posts: 383
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: 54°00'39.4"N 21°43'50.5"E

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby BlinkerSpawn » October 13th, 2017, 11:51 am

muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0?

And on that subject, (2,2)c/4?

I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship:
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4i
obo$o$b2o!
LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed]
User avatar
BlinkerSpawn
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm
Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby muzik » October 13th, 2017, 12:48 pm

BlinkerSpawn wrote:
muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0?

And on that subject, (2,2)c/4?

I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship:
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4i
obo$o$b2o!

...which can be easily be disproved by the example from the 5s project:
x = 3, y = 4, rule = B2ac/S1
2bo2$b2o$o!
2c/n spaceships project

Current priorities: see here
muzik
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby A for awesome » October 13th, 2017, 1:00 pm

BlinkerSpawn wrote:
muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0?

And on that subject, (2,2)c/4?

I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship:
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4i
obo$o$b2o!

If you're measuring by bounding box, yes. If you're measuring by population, then no, 4-cell ones are possible:
x = 4, y = 3, rule = B2-e/S1
3bo$2bo$obo!

I have a mental outline of a proof that 3-cell c/2 diagonal ships of any period are impossible, but I don't know that I'll get around to finishing it and posting it — in any case, there are probably many ways of tackling the problem, so nobody should let me stop them from trying.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

Aidan F. Pierce
User avatar
A for awesome
 
Posts: 1418
Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
Location: 0x-1

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby Rhombic » October 18th, 2017, 6:14 am

growing spaceship, moving wick-stretcher?
x = 16, y = 35, rule = B2ein3acir4einqtyz5aq6ain7e/S1c2-an3iqry4n5inqry6kn7e8
13b3o$13bobo2$11bo$12bo$11b2o$10bobo$11bo$10b2o$9bobo$10bo$9b2o$8bobo$
9bo$8b2o$7bobo$8bo$7b2o$6bobo$7bo$6b2o$5bobo$6bo$5b2o$4bobo$5bo$4b2o$
3bobo$4bo$3b2o$2bobo$3bo$b3o$ob2o$3o!
User avatar
Rhombic
 
Posts: 770
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby gameoflifemaniac » October 18th, 2017, 9:42 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
User avatar
gameoflifemaniac
 
Posts: 383
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: 54°00'39.4"N 21°43'50.5"E

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby wildmyron » October 18th, 2017, 11:33 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?

No. Hensel notation is used to specify isotropic rules only. The wiki page on Non-totalistic_Life-like_cellular_automaton is confusing on that point because it seems to have started out as a description of the isotropic rulespace and then morphed into a broader description of non-totalistic CA. It also seems wrong to me to describe anything non-totalistic as "Life like" - see Cellular_automata#Life-like_cellular_automata for the definition.
wildmyron
 
Posts: 585
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby gameoflifemaniac » October 18th, 2017, 12:14 pm

gameoflifemaniac wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
Oops... I meant 'Is the number of possible isotropic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
User avatar
gameoflifemaniac
 
Posts: 383
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: 54°00'39.4"N 21°43'50.5"E

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby wildmyron » October 18th, 2017, 12:21 pm

gameoflifemaniac wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
Oops... I meant 'Is the number of possible isotropic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?'

Yes
wildmyron
 
Posts: 585
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby Macbi » October 18th, 2017, 12:29 pm

Only assuming you're using the "canonical form".

Also, it's a bit weird to ask if there are the same number. It's more important to know that each of them is expressed exactly once (which is also true).
User avatar
Macbi
 
Posts: 161
Joined: March 29th, 2009, 4:58 am

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby gameoflifemaniac » November 11th, 2017, 10:46 am

Is this spaceship known?
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B34/S34
4o$3bo$o2bo$b3o$bo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
User avatar
gameoflifemaniac
 
Posts: 383
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: 54°00'39.4"N 21°43'50.5"E

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Postby BlinkerSpawn » November 11th, 2017, 11:12 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is this spaceship known?
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B34/S34
4o$3bo$o2bo$b3o$bo!

It's the second pattern under "c/3 orthogonal spaceships" in Niemiec's collection for 3/4 Life, known no later than 19 Feb 2015.
LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed]
User avatar
BlinkerSpawn
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm
Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's

Previous

Return to Other Cellular Automata

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests