Home  •  LifeWiki  •  Forums  •  Download Golly

## Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

For discussion of other cellular automata.

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is there a pattern other than the dot, domino or other symmetric patterns that can't be a spaceship in any non-totalistic rule?

Presuming that your question is about isotropic non-totalistic rules, then calcyman answered this question conclusively, and in the affirmative, here. There was some further discussion around the topic (restricted to isotropic rules without B0) in that thread as well.

muzik wrote:Any pattern can be a spaceship in some non-isotropic rules, which are non-totalistic.

I'm pretty sure gameoflifemaniac is referring to isotropic, non-totalistic rules, where the dot and domino cannot be a spaceship.

Saka wrote:
muzik wrote:Any pattern can be a spaceship in some non-isotropic rules, which are non-totalistic.

x = 93, y = 81, rule = B/S0123467876bo$76bo55$o24$91b2o! That pattern is certainly a spaceship in some non-isotropic, non-totalistic rule - so it doesn't serve as a counter example to muzik's statement. Even if you restrict consideration to isotropic rules, I don't think you can simply rule out that it might be a spaceship in some rule. For example, here is a pattern made of two isolated dominos which is a spaceship in an isotropic rule with B0: x = 5, y = 5, rule = B02c3e6e/S1e4bo$4bo3$2o! It seems it would be extremely unlikely for the two domino + dot pattern to be a spaceship in some isotropic rule, but I don't think you can rule it out without a proof or actually testing a large majority of the B0 rules which support spaceships (some of them you'd be able to rule out without testing explicitly, I'm sure). By the way, Thank you to the people who contributed to discussion of this topic in the other thread (who hopefully read this thread too!), and apologies for not participating in the discussion. I've still got lots of thoughts about this which I'm trying to straighten out in my head. Edit: Here's another example with larger spacing: x = 6, y = 6, rule = B02c3ry4qtwz6e/S02an4r5r6n5bo$5bo4$2o! And another without the diagonal symmetry: x = 5, y = 6, rule = B01e2-a3j4ay5ac6ai8/S1c4k4bo$4bo4$2o! The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 150,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki. wildmyron Posts: 1160 Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Saka wrote:Has anybody tried to make a WLS/Gfind/Zfind-ish spaceship search program for LTL rules? I believe the answer to that is no. I think that for a gfind/zfind style program the larger neighbourhood will make the program a lot more complicated. I imagine that range 2 is probably manageable, but I say that with no experience of designing this kind of program. The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 150,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki. wildmyron Posts: 1160 Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions What is the name for the fractal this generates? x = 1, y = 1, rule = B13/S024Vo! Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Is there a limit for the highest possible period spaceship such that all phases have the same population? If so, what is it. Otherwise, what is the highest period spaceship that fulfils this description that has been discovered? SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite : Rule X3VI what is “sesame oil”? Rhombic Posts: 1056 Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions muzik wrote:Are there any known 1D replicators where the central replicator stays alive after every replication cycle, resembling a one-dimensional version of the Fredkin rule and simulating Wolfram rule 150? Seems like the fits the description: x = 3, y = 1, rule = B02aci6i/S1e5i3o! Anyone willing to make a "Sierpinski generator" equivalent in rules where this works? Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0? And on that subject, (2,2)c/4? Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee... gameoflifemaniac Posts: 748 Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am Location: There too ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0? And on that subject, (2,2)c/4? I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship: x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4iobo$o$b2o! LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed] BlinkerSpawn Posts: 1876 Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions BlinkerSpawn wrote: muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0? And on that subject, (2,2)c/4? I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship: x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4iobo$o$b2o! ...which can be easily be disproved by the example from the 5s project: x = 3, y = 4, rule = B2ac/S12bo2$b2o$o! Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions BlinkerSpawn wrote: muzik wrote:Are (1,1)c/2 diagonal spaceships with 3 cells possible in range-1 2-state isotropic rules without B0? And on that subject, (2,2)c/4? I think this is the smallest possible (1,1)c/2 ship: x = 3, y = 3, rule = B1e2c3a5k6c/S01e4iobo$o$b2o! If you're measuring by bounding box, yes. If you're measuring by population, then no, 4-cell ones are possible: x = 4, y = 3, rule = B2-e/S13bo$2bo$obo! I have a mental outline of a proof that 3-cell c/2 diagonal ships of any period are impossible, but I don't know that I'll get around to finishing it and posting it — in any case, there are probably many ways of tackling the problem, so nobody should let me stop them from trying. x₁=ηx V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη) K=(Λu²)/2 Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt) $$x_1=\eta x$$ $$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$ $$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$ $$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$ http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all Aidan F. Pierce A for awesome Posts: 1816 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm Location: 0x-1 ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions growing spaceship, moving wick-stretcher? x = 16, y = 35, rule = B2ein3acir4einqtyz5aq6ain7e/S1c2-an3iqry4n5inqry6kn7e813b3o$13bobo2$11bo$12bo$11b2o$10bobo$11bo$10b2o$9bobo$10bo$9b2o$8bobo$9bo$8b2o$7bobo$8bo$7b2o$6bobo$7bo$6b2o$5bobo$6bo$5b2o$4bobo$5bo$4b2o$3bobo$4bo$3b2o$2bobo$3bo$b3o$ob2o$3o!
SoL : FreeElectronics : DeadlyEnemies : 6a-ite : Rule X3VI
what is “sesame oil”?

Rhombic

Posts: 1056
Joined: June 1st, 2013, 5:41 pm

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

gameoflifemaniac

Posts: 748
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: There too

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?

No. Hensel notation is used to specify isotropic rules only. The wiki page on Non-totalistic_Life-like_cellular_automaton is confusing on that point because it seems to have started out as a description of the isotropic rulespace and then morphed into a broader description of non-totalistic CA. It also seems wrong to me to describe anything non-totalistic as "Life like" - see Cellular_automata#Life-like_cellular_automata for the definition.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 150,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.
wildmyron

Posts: 1160
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
Oops... I meant 'Is the number of possible isotropic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?'
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

gameoflifemaniac

Posts: 748
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: There too

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is the number of possible non-totalistic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?
Oops... I meant 'Is the number of possible isotropic rules equal to the number of non-totalistic rules writable using Alan Hensels notation?'

Yes
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 150,000 spaceships. Tabulated pages up to period 160 are available on the LifeWiki.
wildmyron

Posts: 1160
Joined: August 9th, 2013, 12:45 am

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Only assuming you're using the "canonical form".

Also, it's a bit weird to ask if there are the same number. It's more important to know that each of them is expressed exactly once (which is also true).

Macbi

Posts: 680
Joined: March 29th, 2009, 4:58 am

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Is this spaceship known?
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B34/S344o$3bo$o2bo$b3o$bo!
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

gameoflifemaniac

Posts: 748
Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
Location: There too

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is this spaceship known?
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B34/S344o$3bo$o2bo$b3o$bo!

It's the second pattern under "c/3 orthogonal spaceships" in Niemiec's collection for 3/4 Life, known no later than 19 Feb 2015.
LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed]

Posts: 1876
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm
Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Can this be a tagalong for any spaceships in Life-related rules?

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S232b2o$b3o2$o!
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace!
muzik

Posts: 3310
Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm
Location: Scotland

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

muzik wrote:Can this be a tagalong for any spaceships in Life-related rules?

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S232b2o$b3o2$o!

Yes.
x = 24, y = 29, rule = b357s238history18.A$5.A6.2C3.A.A$4.A.A4.3C2.5A$2.A5.A7.2A.2A$A2.5A2.C6.A.A2$13.3A5.3A$3A5.3A2.3A5.3A2$3.A3.A$.A3.A3.A$A9.A4.2A.A.2A$15.A5.A$A2.A3.A2.A4.2A3.2A$.A.2A.2A.A3.11A$.2A.3A.2A$A2.2A.2A2.A2.2A3.A3.2A$5.A10.A3.A$A2.A3.A2.A2.2A.A3.A.2A$.2A5.2A4.2A.A.A.2A$3.2A.2A7.A5.A$3.A.A.A7.A.3A.A$3.5A9.3A$.A.A.A.A.A7.A.A$4.3A9.A.A.A$3.5A7.A.3A.A$.9A5.A5.A$15.A5.A$17.3A!
Still drifting.
Bullet51

Posts: 528
Joined: July 21st, 2014, 4:35 am

### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Can this be turned into [s]an oblique spaceship[/s] a c/3 diagonal spaceship?
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23obo$obo$b2o!

Edit: Dang, I wish the forums had a [s] tag.
--Szymon Bartosiewicz
favorite pattern:
x = 2, y = 2, rule = B25/S3a2o$2o! lifeisawesome Posts: 86 Joined: April 22nd, 2016, 1:55 pm Location: poland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions lifeisawesome wrote:Can this be turned into [s]an oblique spaceship[/s] a c/3 diagonal spaceship? x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3/S23obo$obo$b2o! Edit: Dang, I wish the forums had a [s] tag. No. It is proven that in B3/S23 no diagonal ships faster than c/4 exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee... gameoflifemaniac Posts: 748 Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am Location: There too ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions It could be, if you can come up with a program that runs range-2 von Neumann non-isotropic rules, preferably with an acceptable notation. Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range-2 von Neumann isotropic non-totalistic rulespace! muzik Posts: 3310 Joined: January 28th, 2016, 2:47 pm Location: Scotland ### Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions Is this a billiard table? x = 9, y = 9, rule = B2ei3e/Sbobobobo$o7bo2$o7bo2$o7bo2$o7bo$bobobobo!
--Szymon Bartosiewicz
favorite pattern:
x = 2, y = 2, rule = B25/S3a2o\$2o!

lifeisawesome

Posts: 86
Joined: April 22nd, 2016, 1:55 pm
Location: poland

PreviousNext