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Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: September 4th, 2018, 4:43 pm
by AforAmpere
gameoflifemaniac wrote:How slow are the spaceships now?

For a pattern like this, with n cells in the top middle area:
x = 13, y = 4, rule = KnuthArrows
D$A.8A.2A2$A.8A.2A!

The speed is approximately C/2^^^^^...^^3 with n-2 arrows.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: September 5th, 2018, 1:54 am
by gameoflifemaniac
AforAmpere wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:How slow are the spaceships now?

For a pattern like this, with n cells in the top middle area:
x = 13, y = 4, rule = KnuthArrows
D$A.8A.2A2$A.8A.2A!

The speed is approximately C/2^^^^^...^^3 with n-2 arrows.

Ahh, so for 1 cell, then n cells, then m cells, it's asymptotic to c/2^^^^^...^^m+1 with n-2 arrows.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 11:50 am
by gameoflifemaniac
What will be the next step in how slow the spaceships will be?
I'm deleting the post and reuploading it the second time, and still nobody answers?

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 11:58 am
by AforAmpere
gameoflifemaniac wrote:What will be the next step in how slow the spaceships will be?
I'm deleting the post and reuploading it the second time, and still nobody answers?


Well, first off, try doing some research yourself if you are really that desperate. Second, I am not sure what the next step is. Some of the other Turing machines on the page I referenced are able to calculate much larger values, so if you want to port them into Golly, you might be able to create slower ships.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: September 15th, 2018, 3:20 am
by gameoflifemaniac
fluffykitty wrote:I've made a rule which is doubly tetrationally slow in size.

Where is it? I saw your tetrational rule, but not your double tetrational rule!

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 2:04 am
by Saka
Saka, earlier in this thread, wrote:Idea:
1. A dot creates a c/2 dot moving left and spawns a binary counter that counts to the left.
2. Once the counter hits a certain point (noted by a dot), it starts counting down (If possible) and is moved 1 cell to the right.
3. After countdown has finished, the counter is turned into a c/1 dot moving left and a dot marking the position, but 1 cell to the right.
4. Once the c/1 dot catches the c/2 dot, it turns into a c/1 dot.
5. The c/1 dot moves to the right until it hits the binary counter marker (See #3).
6. Repeat.

This would be REALLY slowm

I made a rule based on that idea, with a few small changes.
@RULE ChaseShip
********************************
**** COMPILED FROM NUTSHELL ****
****         v0.5.7         ****
********************************
1 -> c/2 going left, counter going right
counter hits stop, stop -> stop explode, counts erased
when counter eraser meets counter, counter moves 1 to right
se -> c/1 going left above, move to right 1 cell, change to state 0
when c/1 meets c/2, c/2 -> c/1 going right, c/1 going left disappears
when c/1 going right meets startmarker, startmarker -> start

0: vaccuum
1: start
2: left c2 1
3: left c2 2
4: binary counter
5: binary 1
6: binary thing
7: counter stop
8: stop explode
9: count eraser
10: startmarker
11: c/1 left
12: c/1 right
13: death


@TABLE
neighborhood: vonNeumann
symmetries: none
n_states: 14

var any.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
var any.1 = any.0
var any.2 = any.0
var any.3 = any.0
var live.0 = {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
var _a0.0 = {2,3}
var _b0.0 = {0,5,6}
var _c0.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}

0, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
1, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 4
0, any.0, 11, _a0.0, any.1, 5
_a0.0, 5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12
0, 11, any.0, any.1, 3, 12
0, 5, any.0, any.1, 2, 13
live.0, any.0, 13, any.1, any.2, 13
live.0, any.0, any.1, 13, any.2, 13
13, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
2, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 3
3, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, 3, any.1, any.2, 2
_b0.0, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 9
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 10
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, _c0.0, 0
4, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 5
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 6
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 6
6, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 5
7, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 8
0, any.0, any.1, 8, any.2, 11
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 8, 7
8, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 9
0, any.0, 11, any.1, any.2, 11
11, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 12
12, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
10, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 1

The c/2 photon turning around is a bit wonky because it uses the vonNeumann neighborhood.
Example ship (c/178o):
x = 7, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A5.G!

It isn't that slow, but the minimum population is the same for every speed (besides c/2 and c/1, technically).
Fastest possible ship with the same format:
c/19o
x = 3, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A.G!

(Speeds c/2o and c/1o are also possible, but they aren't that fun.)

EDIT: Can anyone figure out the formula for the period?
EDIT2:
Dani found it:
6*l+2^(l-3)+2^l-8
where l is the width of the ship

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 3:47 am
by danny
I like that rule. This ship goes at speed c/301990048, which is the closest to 1 m/s (0.992722972 m/s) I could get:
x = 28, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A26.G!

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 4:57 am
by Saka
This is interesting, as you can see by the graph, the periods of the ships start to skyrocket at around width 45 (according to the function in the original rule post)

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 8:59 am
by Moosey
How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 10:15 am
by Saka
Moosey wrote:How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.

What do you mean?
Also, I just posted the function for the period in the post for the rule.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 14th, 2019, 12:02 pm
by Moosey
Saka wrote:
Moosey wrote:How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.

What do you mean?
Also, I just posted the function for the period in the post for the rule.

How large must the fourth ship in that line be so that it won’t be destroyed and stopped by the previous one?

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 15th, 2019, 7:23 am
by Saka
I've made an even slower version of the rule:
@RULE ChaseShipBin
********************************
**** COMPILED FROM NUTSHELL ****
****         v0.5.7         ****
********************************

0: vaccuum
1: start
2: left c2 1
3: left c2 2
4: binary counter
5: binary 1
6: binary thing
7: counter stop
8: stop explode
9: count eraser
10: startmarker
11: c/1 left
12: reactivator
13: death
14: complete count eraser


@TABLE
neighborhood: vonNeumann
symmetries: none
n_states: 15

var any.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var any.1 = any.0
var any.2 = any.0
var any.3 = any.0
var _a0.0 = {2,3}
var _b0.0 = {1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var _c0.0 = {0,5,6}
var _d0.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}

0, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
1, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 4
0, any.0, 11, _a0.0, any.1, 5
_a0.0, 5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12
0, 11, any.0, any.1, 3, 4
0, 5, any.0, any.1, 2, 13
_b0.0, any.0, 13, any.1, any.2, 13
_b0.0, any.0, any.1, 13, any.2, 13
13, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
2, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 3
3, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, 3, any.1, any.2, 2
_c0.0, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 9
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 10
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, _d0.0, 0
4, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 0
14, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
14, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
4, any.0, 14, any.1, any.2, 12
6, any.0, 10, any.1, any.2, 14
any.0, any.1, 14, any.2, any.3, 14
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 5
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 6
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 6
6, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 5
7, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 8
0, any.0, any.1, 8, any.2, 11
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 8, 7
8, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 9
0, any.0, 11, any.1, any.2, 11
11, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 12
12, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
10, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 1
6, any.0, 10, any.1, any.2, 14

In this version, instead of creating a photon "reactivator", it uses another binary counter, and once the binary counter reaches the ship, it creates a photon that erases the counter and bounces back and reactivates the ship. This keeps the constant population at 2 and makes it slower as well.
Fastest: c/76o
x = 3, y = 1, rule = ChaseShipBin
A.G!

The width 4 ship has speed c/1589o and the width 5 ship is a c/393309o. I've calculated that the period for the width 6 ship is around 6 442 451 107, give or take at most 2.
I have yet to find the formula for the speed.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 15th, 2019, 8:30 am
by PkmnQ
I'm in the middle of making a rule for a new ship. I've created half of the process, and I'm taking a break for my mind.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 15th, 2019, 12:31 pm
by AforAmpere
For Saka's newest rule, for a gap of n, the period is equal to:
3 * 2^(3 * 2^(n-1) + 2n - 1) + 15 * 2^(n - 1) + 10n +3


A gap of 100 has a period with more digits than could be stored on Earth.

Re: Real Life Speeds

PostPosted: April 16th, 2019, 12:10 am
by PkmnQ
I've completed my rule!
@RULE Track

@TABLE
n_states:18
neighborhood:vonNeumann
symmetries:none

#State 0: Nothing
#State 1: Front
#State 2: Initialized Puffer
#State 3: Puffer 1
#State 4: Puffer 2
#State 5: Track
#State 6: Counter
#State 7: Counted
#State 8: Returning
#State 9: Sending
#State 10: Waiting
#State 11: Signal Front
#State 12: Moving
#State 13: Signal Back
#State 14: Recount
#State 15: Recounted
#State 16: Uninitialized Puffer
#State 17: Forgotten Cell

var a={0,1}
var b={0,5}
var c={6,7}
var d={0,10}
var e={0,10,16}
var f={2,3,4}
var g={16,17}
var h={14,15}
var i={5,17}
var j={8,15}
var k={0,14,15,17}
var l={0,15,16}

#Puffing
2,0,0,0,0,0
0,0,2,0,0,3
3,0,b,0,0,5
0,0,3,0,0,4
4,0,b,0,0,5
0,0,4,0,0,6

#Counting
5,0,5,0,c,7
5,0,0,0,c,8

#Returning
8,0,0,0,c,17
17,0,0,0,8,0
8,0,i,0,c,5
7,0,8,0,c,8
6,0,8,0,0,9

#Sending
9,0,5,0,0,10
0,0,9,0,a,11

#SignalF
0,0,11,0,a,11
11,0,d,0,a,0
1,0,11,0,0,12

#Moving
12,0,0,0,0,13
0,0,12,0,0,1

#SignalP
0,0,e,0,13,13
13,0,e,0,a,0
10,0,5,0,13,3

#Hit
0,0,f,0,1,14

#Recounting
5,0,b,0,h,15
0,0,0,0,15,16

#Untrailing
15,0,g,0,h,17
17,0,l,0,k,0
14,0,17,0,1,13

#Initializing
16,0,0,0,13,2


To make a spaceship, you make a state 1, and then a gap (choose how long), then a state 2.

I don’t know the function for the speeds. At first, it looks like it doesn’t get slower than c/26 but then it matches up, and continues to slow down.