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Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wildmyron » February 18th, 2018, 11:55 pm

I ran my 3 cell oscillator search for a while longer, and as a result here are a few more 3 cell oscillators which fill in a few of the odd period gaps up to p128 and a few higher even periods. No p59 showed up, so I thought I'd give LLS a go. The search I ran specified the initial phase of the oscillator and D4+ symmetry, without which I don't believe the search would have been viable.

Edit: It's worth noting that the bounding box for the p59 search with LLS was probably larger than necessary, so an equivalent search with smaller bbox would probably have been faster, but I wanted to be sure that the search would be successful. [/edit]

I believe only the following periods up to p100 are missing small oscillators (in this thread):
p71 (8 cells), p75 (29 cells), p81, p83, p85, p91 (14 cells), p93, p95, p97 (24 cells), and p99 (56 cells).

p59, 3 cells, found with LLS after 4.5h of search time
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cen3eny4jkqrtwz5ejkry6ci7c8/S02i3-ei4ijnrwy5aijq6-n7e8
obobo!

p77, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cin3acijr4aityz5an6ci7e/S02ein3i4c5y6k7e8
obobo!

p109, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cik3-ceq4cijkw5cejy6a7e8/S1e2ae4aeiqw5ey6ack7e
obobo!

p117, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2-ak3cikqy4-aikqt5knqy67e8/S12ikn3cen4acekq5acei6cek8
obobo!

p127, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2-an3qy4nrtyz5ejqry6c8/S1e2-in3jq4acekntw5ar6aen8
obobo!


p172, 3 cells
x = 2, y = 3, rule = B2ce3en4acntwyz5ei6ei/S12ek3jn4enr5jr6e
2o2$bo!

p176, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cin3-iknq4ijkt5ein6-kn8/S1e3-aein4actyz5acnry6k7e
obobo!

p184, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cn3acjy4aceik5ikqry6akn/S01c2-an3einry4eijnqr5aceiy6c7
obobo!

p240, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2cei3aeq4ijkryz5jknqy6ai7c/S02ein3-ciny4akty5cknry6i8
obobo!

p248, 3 cells
x = 2, y = 3, rule = B2cen3kn4aceqry5acjky6en78/S01c2cei3jkry4ceqyz5-ciqr6c7e
o$bo$o!

p286, 3 cells
x = 5, y = 1, rule = B2in3aeiqy4aekrtz5eikqr6ain7c8/S01e2i3eijq4aeik5cj6ac8
obobo!

p320, 3 cells
x = 2, y = 3, rule = B2ein3-jn4kn5aijkq6-i78/S01c2-cn3ijqy4eikw5cey6ci7e
o$bo$o!

p392, 3 cells
x = 2, y = 3, rule = B2cek3cq4ny5-cnr6c7c/S01e2kn3-aeij4atz5knqr6cin7e
2o2$bo!
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wildmyron » February 19th, 2018, 10:13 pm

Pushing the envelope a bit further with high, odd period oscillators having 2 cells in minimum phase (using LLS again):

p49, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3knr4inty5aejy6c7e/S01e2ei3cik4-enwyz5aeijn6aci7e
obo!

p51, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3ace4ceijkq5ein6i7e8/S01e2ein3acey4cijk5ci6ac7e
obo!

p53, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-ck3acek4einrt5cy6cei8/S01e2eik3e4acjny5iy6ck7e
obo!


The non-prime periods were found with a custom search forcing non-subperiodic solutions. I'm looking forward to the improvements to LLS providing this functionality. However, I think I'll leave this project as it is for now.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby 77topaz » February 19th, 2018, 10:22 pm

wildmyron wrote:p53, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-ck3acek4einrt5cy6cei8/S01e2eik3e4acjny5iy6ck7e
obo!



Hmm... it's interesting how this oscillator behaves somewhat like a failed replicator (look at generation 9).
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby 77topaz » February 21st, 2018, 11:54 pm

A slight diversion, but one related to the purpose of this thread:

  • There are only finitely many range-1 isotropic non-totalistic Life-like cellular automata. A very large number, but a finite one.
  • There are only finitely many arrangements of two live cells in a single rule that could be an oscillator, as two live cells separated by more than one dead cell cannot interact with each other without B0 or B1; with B1, all patterns grow infinitely and so cannot oscillate, and B0 oscillators are excluded from this project because of how different B0 rules are from others.
  • Therefore, there are only finitely many unique two-cell oscillators in range-1 rules without B0.
  • Therefore, there must exist some finite number so that all two-cell oscillators in range-1 rules without B0 have periods equal to or less than that number.

I wonder, what is that maximum period? Is that even calculable with current technology?
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Macbi » February 22nd, 2018, 5:02 am

In fact I already figured out a bit about the positioning of the cells and the rules.
If you want a 2-cell high-period oscillator the two cells have to be one cell apart orthogonally. Then you have to have B2i, S0, B2a, S1e. You can't have B0, B1c, B1e, B2c, B3i.
So to search for 2 cell oscillators you can set LLS up with two cells one cell apart in some size of bounding box and enforce the rules I mentioned.
Then all LLS is doing is searching through all remaining rules to find an oscillator of the given period.
77topaz wrote:I wonder, what is that maximum period? Is that even calculable with current technology?
More possible to answer would be "What's the minimum period not achievable?".
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wildmyron » February 23rd, 2018, 3:39 am

Macbi wrote:In fact I already figured out a bit about the positioning of the cells and the rules.
If you want a 2-cell high-period oscillator the two cells have to be one cell apart orthogonally. Then you have to have B2i, S0, B2a, S1e. You can't have B0, B1c, B1e, B2c, B3i.
So to search for 2 cell oscillators you can set LLS up with two cells one cell apart in some size of bounding box and enforce the rules I mentioned.
Then all LLS is doing is searching through all remaining rules to find an oscillator of the given period.

This is pretty much the method (and rule restrictions I followed), although I also enforced D4+ symmetry and forgot about the -c option (instead I enforced the center cell on in relevant generations). There is however an alternate set of rule restrictions: here are a few high period oscillators without S0 and with B2c in their rule specification:

p30, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aci4aintw/S1e2ai4ei5y
obo!

p32, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aci4aintw/S1e2ai4ei5y
obo!

p34, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-kn3e4t5iqy6i/S12i3eqy4cerw5iy6c7e8
obo!

p36, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2acei4cr5e7e/S1e2cik3enr4aet
obo!

p62, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-ek3n4ctw/S12i3ace5i
obo!


Here are a few more reductions down to 2 cells for even periods:

p60, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3q4ceinr5j6ci7e/S01e2ek3-acnq4eiknqr5aeiy7e
obo!

p64, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aik3any4eikt5eiy6e8/S01e2-an3knry4-nqtw5iky7e
obo!

p66, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3k4cinqty5ijy7e8/S01e2eik3jry4acint5cijny6ac7e
obo!

p68, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3aen4ajnrt5eikny6ce7e8/S01e2ei3acery4aceirwy5ceky6c
obo!


Edit: (I couldn't resist)
p70, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3acr4eijnwy5-jkny6-cn7e/S01e2-ai3-in4jknty5-qr6-in7e8
obo!

p72, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3cjqy4-aet5-q6ace7e8/S01e2ei3aijkr4ackw5acer6ack
obo!

p74, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-ck3aeky4eir5jy8/S01e2eik3en4acnqt5ciny6cek7e
obo!

p76, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3enq4eijkq5ceny6ci7e/S01e2eik3cinr4enrt5-jkr6ei
obo!

p78, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3aenq4aiktw5ae6cei8/S01e2ein3-ain4aijkn5ry6ci
obo!

Most of those searches only took a few minutes. For some reason p80 is taking much longer.
[/edit]

Edit 2:
p80, 2 cells (30 mins in lls)
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3acen4aciy5einy6i/S01e2in3aejy4acejn5ij6ac7e
obo!

p82, 2 cells (20 mins in lls)
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3ekqry4jnr5cej6ci7e8/S01e2eik3ejnr4cirt5jy6ce7e8
obo!

If anyone is curious, this is the method I've been using to find these (example for p78, 2 minutes search time):
$ python make_lls_grid.py -p 39 -m 90 -f 3 3 5 7 > osc.txt
$ python lls osc.txt -r pB2ai3-i45678/S012345678 --force_at_most 2 -s "D4+" -m -c 0 2 -c 0 6

[/edit]

Edit 3:
p84, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3acejq4eky5eijy6ae7e8/S01e2cei3-ciny4-ejqrz5-cejr7e8
obo!

p86, 2 cells
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3cekqy4-acrt5-aeij6-n7e8/S01e2ekn3einr4nqrtwy5-eqr6ack7e
obo!

[/edit]

Macbi wrote:
77topaz wrote:I wonder, what is that maximum period? Is that even calculable with current technology?
More possible to answer would be "What's the minimum period not achievable?".

Even that might be problematic, because there's no easy way to define a limit on what the bounding box of the oscillator is or what its maximum population is. There's probably a way, but I can't see how you rule out an extremely high period oscillator which grows and grows and then suddenly collapses back down to 2 cells. I suspect though that any upper bound would be astronomically larger than the true value.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Majestas32 » February 23rd, 2018, 9:39 am

Well without b0/b1c/b1e a 2 cell osc has to be within a bounding box of 3x3...
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Macbi » February 23rd, 2018, 10:11 am

wildmyron wrote:There is however an alternate set of rule restrictions: here are a few high period oscillators without S0 and with B2c in their rule specification:

Oh! I missed that possibility. :oops:

Majestas32 wrote:Well without b0/b1c/b1e a 2 cell osc has to be within a bounding box of 3x3...

That's not true either, you can escape with 2a.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Majestas32 » February 23rd, 2018, 11:12 am

I mean in the 2 cell phase
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wildmyron » February 23rd, 2018, 11:38 am

Macbi wrote:
Majestas32 wrote:Well without b0/b1c/b1e a 2 cell osc has to be within a bounding box of 3x3...

That's not true either, you can escape with 2a.

Majestas32 wrote:I mean in the 2 cell phase

True, the minimum population phase is within a 3x3 bounding box, but the upper bound on an oscillator's period is determined by the total number of cells which are active at any time
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby 77topaz » February 23rd, 2018, 4:34 pm

Majestas32 wrote:Well without b0/b1c/b1e a 2 cell osc has to be within a bounding box of 3x3...


That's already what I said earlier. But, I think what wildmyron meant is that LLS requires the bounding box of the entire evolution of the oscillator, which could be significantly larger than 3x3 at high periods.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Macbi » March 9th, 2018, 10:39 am

I don't have time to write the code right now (anyone else is welcome to) but I think it might be possible to enumerate every 2-cell oscillator.

Start with a fixed 100 by 100 grid with two cells one cell apart horizontally in the middle of it (actually use symmetry to only simulate one quadrant). Store a partial rule which starts with B2a turned on, B01ce turned off and all other transitions unknown.

Then repeat the following procedure recursively. List all the transitions in the current pattern that aren't yet assigned. For each possible assignment to them evolve the pattern one generation. Then if the pattern has returned to its original state (or its rotation) you've found an oscillator. The current partial rule tells you exactly all the rules it works in. Save the rule for this oscillator and backtrack. If instead you reach a pattern that you've seen in a previous generation (or it's rotation) you have some other oscillator and you should backtrack immediately. You should also backtrack immediately if you create a pattern with two adjacent cells on the outer edge. Because of 2a it will explode.

I believe that this will quite quickly produce a list of all possible 2-cell oscillators. It's searching through the whole 2^transitions sized rulespace, but it can eliminate multiple rules at a time because it keeps track for each evolution of only the transitions needed for that evolution to work.
Last edited by Macbi on June 1st, 2018, 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Majestas32 » March 9th, 2018, 11:06 am

What about 2 cells 1 cell apart diagonally

With B2en and S01c

Or 2 cells 1 apart knightwise

With b2ak and S0
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Macbi » March 9th, 2018, 11:10 am

I meant to add that all other oscillators can be enumerated by hand.
Majestas32 wrote:What about 2 cells 1 cell apart diagonally

With B2en and S0
I think it's true that such a pattern can't escape its bounding box without acquiring D8 symmetry which it can't then get rid of. So it's easy to enumerate all such oscillators by hand.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Majestas32 » March 9th, 2018, 11:18 am

Hmmm, yah.

But knightwise maybe? Or since there can't be 3 cells in a row without symmetry then it can't expand either even with b2ak?
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Majestas32 » March 9th, 2018, 11:21 am

This means without b2a 2 cells can only be p1, p2, p3, p4, p6, or p8.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wwei23 » April 1st, 2018, 1:36 pm

BlinkerSpawn wrote:3-cell p3:
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B3jy/S012c
obo2$bo!


x=3, y=3, rule=B3ey/S01
bob$$obo!

Edit:
I will tabulate everything here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3352&p=58739#p58739
Edit:
A smaller P3 is known. We need a 2 cell P5, and a P7.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wwei23 » April 1st, 2018, 3:09 pm

Macbi wrote:Just skipping the hard ones now. All 2 cells:

p34
x = 1, y = 3, rule = B2ain3cejkq4-aijtz5-jny6-ai7e/S01e2-ak3-ijqr4aeijnqz5cijry6-ac7e
o2$o!

p36
x = 1, y = 3, rule = B2ain3-eiry4ijknrtz5-ay6aek/S01e2-a3-aijn4-acewy5ejqr678
o2$o!

p38
x = 1, y = 3, rule = B2ain3-einr4-aent5-kqry6-ci7c/S01e2-a3-iknr4inqt5ceq6-e78
o2$o!

p40
x = 1, y = 3, rule = B2ain3acjkq4-acewz5aeiny6ck7e/S01e2-ak3cejqy4ijqtwz5aenr6ci8
o2$o!

p42
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3acjkq4-aey5-y6k7c/S01e2-an3-in4ijnqtwz5-ciny6-ek7e8
obo!


I guess even periods are easier because they can just rotate 90 degrees after half the period.

EDIT: Now that I've exhausted the brute-force approach, I stopped to figure a few things out. If you want a 2-cell high-period oscillator the two cells have to be one cell apart orthogonally. Then you have to have B2i, S0, B2a, S1e. You can't have B0, B1c, B1e, B2c, B3i.

EDIT2: This lets me fill in some missing periods:

p31
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3-eikr4ijnqwy5acenq6-e7/S01e2ce3cekr4-aknz5-aijk6ce7e
obo!

p33
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3cenqr4-aejqt5-cijr6-ce8/S01e2en3-ceij4aijknr5aekqy6-e7c8
obo!

p35
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3acqr4-crt5anqr6-n7c/S01e2k3-cein4-cknq5acej6-ak7e8
obo!

p37
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3-eir4inqr5-cen6-cn/S01e2-a3ck4eijnyz5-cnqr6aei78
obo!

p41
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2-ck3aky4-ejrw5ceir6-cn7/S01e2en3eikry4cekrz5-k6ack7c
obo!

p44
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3-einr4iknqty5aikry6ik7/S01e3cejry4-ejkqr5inry6a7c
obo!

p46
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ai3cekry4aejknrz5aejqy6-en7e/S01e2-a3-inqy4-ijntw5-ijn6-in8
obo!

p48
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3-eiy4aqrwyz5-cij6cen7e8/S01e2in3-eknq4ijnryz5aceqr6-ce
obo!

p50
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2ain3-aijr4cijkw5anqry6-kn7c8/S012ekn3-ejny4aiz5ceqy6-n8
obo!
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby AforAmpere » April 1st, 2018, 3:16 pm

Why are you directly quoting something that is already in this thread? That is completely pointless, and just takes up space.
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wwei23 » April 1st, 2018, 3:42 pm

AforAmpere wrote:Why are you directly quoting something that is already in this thread? That is completely pointless, and just takes up space.

I can’t select the code box on iPhone, so I have to copy it directly from RLE by pressing quote first, and pressing the back button afterwards but I accidentally hit the submit button instead.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby 77topaz » April 1st, 2018, 6:05 pm

wwei23 wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:Why are you directly quoting something that is already in this thread? That is completely pointless, and just takes up space.

I can’t select the code box on iPhone, so I have to copy it directly from RLE by pressing quote first, and pressing the back button afterwards but I accidentally hit the submit button instead.


Then why didn't you just delete the accidental post afterwards? (facepalm)
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wwei23 » April 1st, 2018, 6:24 pm

77topaz wrote:
wwei23 wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:Why are you directly quoting something that is already in this thread? That is completely pointless, and just takes up space.

I can’t select the code box on iPhone, so I have to copy it directly from RLE by pressing quote first, and pressing the back button afterwards but I accidentally hit the submit button instead.


Then why didn't you just delete the accidental post afterwards? (facepalm)

I was waiting for a ride in Disney, and the post was made right before I got on. By the time I got off, it was too late.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby 77topaz » April 2nd, 2018, 4:14 am

p241, 24 cells:
x = 11, y = 11, rule = B2in34cij7e8/S1e2ekn34ent6i
4bobo$bo7bo$5bo$3bo3bo$o3bobo3bo$2bo5bo$o3bobo3bo$3bo3bo$5bo$bo7bo$4bo
bo!
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby Macbi » April 2nd, 2018, 1:41 pm

By the way wwei23, the thread you created tabulating the results is missing the ones from this other thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3020&start=0&hilit=smallest+oscillators+supporting+specific+periods.
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Re: Smallest Oscillators Supporting Specific Periods

Postby wwei23 » April 2nd, 2018, 1:47 pm

Macbi wrote:By the way wwei23, the thread you created tabulating the results is missing the ones from this other thread: http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ic+periods.

I do not allow B0 in my tabulations anymore. It causes an infinite average population, which I cannot accept.
Edit:
[Saka]
ABHPZTA HAS DONE IT AGAIN PEOPLEEEEEEÈÉÊËĒĖĘEE!!!!!!!!
[/Saka]
AbhpzTa wrote:p5:
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aei3e/S01e2ci3e4e
obo!

non-B0 p6:
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aci4c5y6c/S1e2k3q4c
obo!

p7:
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aci4c5y6c/S1e2k3iq4c6i
obo!

p21:
x = 3, y = 1, rule = B2aci3cq4c5y6c/S1e2k3iqy4ce5y6ain8
obo!
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