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The predecessor game

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The predecessor game

Postby drc » October 17th, 2016, 6:08 pm

Rules are:
    1. ONE (in-game) PATTERN PER POST. If you see somebody posting multiple in-game patterns in one post, only count the first one and try to think of a different solution. This doesn't apply if you're posting out-of-game patterns, however.
    2. All patterns must be predecessors of the previous pattern.
    3. Try and be creative.
    4. If we somehow reach a GoE, restart. Not sure if that's possible though.
I'll start (and by coincidence, all of these are going to be Diehards) with a dot spark:
x = 1, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
o!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby biggiemac » October 17th, 2016, 6:39 pm

There should probably be some sort of limit to putting dot sparks far from the pattern, so people don't just give a standard predecessor plus 150 well-separated dots. I am adding one to my pattern below but not going overboard.
x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
bo2$2bo$2bo$o!
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Caenbe » October 17th, 2016, 6:55 pm

#C number 3
x = 5, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3bo2$2bobo$2bo$o3bo!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby toroidalet » October 17th, 2016, 7:52 pm

x = 7, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3bo$o3bo$5bo$2bo$2bobobo2$2o4bo!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby wildmyron » October 18th, 2016, 12:29 am

Breaking the diagonal line extension, this is the smallest candidate I could find which allows similar sized predecessors
x = 8, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
bobo$3bo$bobob2o$bo$2obobobo$2o5bo$b3obo$o2b5o$2bo2bo$2bo3bo!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Bullet51 » October 18th, 2016, 6:23 am

Trying to make it as small as possible:
x = 9, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2b3o$obo3b2o$2bobobo$2bobob2o$2b2o3b2o$o2b2obo$7b2o$obobo2bo$3bo
2bobo!
Still drifting.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby wildmyron » October 20th, 2016, 12:10 am

I feel it's going to be difficult to keep this game to manageable patterns. I'm not quite sure precisely where it became inevitable that predecessors would become complicated - it's not like the dot spark is that uncommon - but I suspect it was early on, i.e. t=-2 or maybe even t=-1.
x = 11, y = 12
bboo$$o3boobbo$obboobbo$bbobbobo$5b3oboo$3boo$o3bobobo$obo5bo$bbobobobo$6bobboo$
3boo!


The next round needn't increase the bounding box again, but it may be advantageous to do so
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby muzik » October 24th, 2016, 3:36 am

I wonder if we'll reach an agar...
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Gamedziner » October 24th, 2016, 10:28 am

What if someone posts a Garden of Eden?
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby wildmyron » October 24th, 2016, 12:35 pm

muzik wrote:I wonder if we'll reach an agar...

Agars and other periodic patterns can't be predecessors to other patterns, pretty much by definition - I'm sure you can see why.

Gamedziner wrote:What if someone posts a Garden of Eden?

See Rule 4 in the top post.

Anybody care to make the next move? I'm hoping to try to stabilise a segment of the pattern but it's not looking hopeful.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby dvgrn » October 24th, 2016, 3:06 pm

wildmyron wrote:Anybody care to make the next move? I'm hoping to try to stabilise a segment of the pattern but it's not looking hopeful.

Yeah, it seems to be tough to fight one's way out of space dust once it gets going. I can't seem to find a predecessor in the same bounding box with less than 48 ON cells:

x = 11, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
ob2o$b2obobo3bo$2o7bo$o2b2o3b3o$bob2o2b4o$4bo4bo$2b2obobo$o$3obo2bobo$
2bobo2bo2bo$4b2o$3b2obo2b2o!

Can get down to 47 if I allow a cell to sneak out of the bounding box to the south. But it's all pretty space-dusty anyway, so I'm sticking with the above as the official Dot Spark Minus Seven / Vacuum Minus Eight.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby muzik » October 31st, 2016, 12:37 pm

What are the chances that we'll hit a GoE in say, 3 months?
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Nathaniel » October 31st, 2016, 1:07 pm

muzik wrote:What are the chances that we'll hit a GoE in say, 3 months?


Probably extremely high. The vast majority of large patterns are GoEs, so unless the predecessors are very carefully chosen, they are likely to eventually hit a GoE wall.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Caenbe » March 30th, 2017, 6:08 pm

How do we know we haven't hit a GoE already? Has anyone at least found a predecessor?
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby dvgrn » March 30th, 2017, 6:36 pm

Caenbe wrote:How do we know we haven't hit a GoE already? Has anyone at least found a predecessor?

We won't know for absolutely sure until somebody bothers to set up Vacuum-Minus-Eight in JLS and set a search going. It won't take long to run such a search.

Only an incredibly rare scattering of 11x12 patterns are Gardens of Eden, so basically this pattern just isn't big enough yet to have any realistic chance of making the grade.

Quite possibly we _could_ keep this game going indefinitely without hitting a GoE, if we wanted to. The trick might be to try to stabilize the center of the pattern -- or one edge of it would be better, if possible -- and run searches that move the active pattern away from the stabilized part. If the bounding box increases quickly enough, it shouldn't be too hard to dodge GoEs. One obvious way would be to find a glider synthesis of Vacuum-Minus-Eight...!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Bullet51 » March 30th, 2017, 7:36 pm

x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
obob2o2bo$o2bo3bo2bo$2bo2bob2obobo$bo4b2obobo$bobobob2o$5b2o3bobo$bobo
3bob2obo$2b2o5b2o$o2b3o3b2o$o4bo2bo$3bobobo2b2o$4bo$6b2o3bo!
Still drifting.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Caenbe » March 30th, 2017, 11:56 pm

dvgrn wrote:We won't know for absolutely sure until somebody bothers to set up Vacuum-Minus-Eight in JLS and set a search going. It won't take long to run such a search.

Ok, how do I run that search in WLS? EDIT Nvm, the answer is here:
http://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1575
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Saka » July 2nd, 2017, 1:28 am

Bullet51 wrote:
x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
obob2o2bo$o2bo3bo2bo$2bo2bob2obobo$bo4b2obobo$bobobob2o$5b2o3bobo$bobo
3bob2obo$2b2o5b2o$o2b3o3b2o$o4bo2bo$3bobobo2b2o$4bo$6b2o3bo!

I know that this thread is -ded- but hey, we need more games like this.
x = 15, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
3b2obo3bo2bo$bo6bo3bo$2b2ob3o3b3o$2o3b3o3b2obo$b2o2bo4bo$bo5bobobo$3bo
3b2ob2o2bo$b6o3b3o$3bo3b2o3bobo$bo3bo4bo2bo$o2b2o5b5o$b2o2bo3bo2b3o$b
3obo2b3o2bo$2bo2bob3o2b3o$2bo4b2obob3o$13bo$bo4bob2o3bo!
Proud owner and founder of Sakagolue
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Rhombic » July 2nd, 2017, 5:48 am

Does JLS work with Java 8?
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby wwei23 » August 3rd, 2017, 6:04 pm

Saka wrote:
Bullet51 wrote:
x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
obob2o2bo$o2bo3bo2bo$2bo2bob2obobo$bo4b2obobo$bobobob2o$5b2o3bobo$bobo
3bob2obo$2b2o5b2o$o2b3o3b2o$o4bo2bo$3bobobo2b2o$4bo$6b2o3bo!

I know that this thread is -ded- but hey, we need more games like this.
x = 15, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
3b2obo3bo2bo$bo6bo3bo$2b2ob3o3b3o$2o3b3o3b2obo$b2o2bo4bo$bo5bobobo$3bo
3b2ob2o2bo$b6o3b3o$3bo3b2o3bobo$bo3bo4bo2bo$o2b2o5b5o$b2o2bo3bo2b3o$b
3obo2b3o2bo$2bo2bob3o2b3o$2bo4b2obob3o$13bo$bo4bob2o3bo!

Or we could do a long line of cells connected diagonally. Much simpler.
EDIT:
If you have 3 green cells as shown in the pattern below, then it won't work. I figured it out with logic and Life's properties, can you see why?:
x = 15, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
3B2DBD3BD2BDB$BD6BD3BD2B$2B2DB3D3B3DB$2D3B3D3B2DBD$B2D2BD4BD4B$BD5BDB
DBD3B$3BD3B2DB2D2BD$B6D3B3D2B$3BD3B2D3BDBD$BD3BD4BD2BDB$D2B2D5B5D$B2D
2BD3BD2B3D$B3DBD2B3DB3A$2BD2BDB3D2B3D$2BD4B2DBDB3D$13BDB$BD4BDB2D3BDB
!

Invalidated:
x = 15, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory
3B2DBD3BD2BDB$BD6BD3BD2B$2B2DB3D3B3DB$2D3B3D3B2DBD$B2D2BD4BD4B$BD5BDB
DBD3B$3BD3B2DB2D2BD$B6D3B3D2B$3BD3B2D3BDBD$BD3BD4BD2BDB$D2B2D5B5D$B2D
2BD3BD2B3D$B3DBD2B3D2BDB$2BD2BDB3D2B3D$2BD4B2DBDB3D$12B3A$BD4BDB2D3BD
B!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby wwei23 » August 6th, 2017, 10:09 am

Saka wrote:I know that this thread is -ded- but hey, we need more games like this.


Continue the infinite path:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3021
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Caenbe » July 16th, 2018, 6:55 pm

wwei23 wrote:
Saka wrote:
Bullet51 wrote:
x = 13, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
obob2o2bo$o2bo3bo2bo$2bo2bob2obobo$bo4b2obobo$bobobob2o$5b2o3bobo$bobo
3bob2obo$2b2o5b2o$o2b3o3b2o$o4bo2bo$3bobobo2b2o$4bo$6b2o3bo!

I know that this thread is -ded- but hey, we need more games like this.
x = 15, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
3b2obo3bo2bo$bo6bo3bo$2b2ob3o3b3o$2o3b3o3b2obo$b2o2bo4bo$bo5bobobo$3bo
3b2ob2o2bo$b6o3b3o$3bo3b2o3bobo$bo3bo4bo2bo$o2b2o5b5o$b2o2bo3bo2b3o$b
3obo2b3o2bo$2bo2bob3o2b3o$2bo4b2obob3o$13bo$bo4bob2o3bo!

Or we could do a long line of cells connected diagonally. Much simpler.

No, that' s an awful idea.
self-deprecatory joke because I started the diagonal line in the first place
And, I'm just throwing this out there: we could restart.
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby Rhombic » August 10th, 2018, 7:43 am

Restart a pure-glider generator:
x = 8, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
o4b2o$b2o3b2o$2o3bo!
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Re: The predecessor game

Postby AforAmpere » August 10th, 2018, 11:29 am

Rhombic wrote:Restart a pure-glider generator:
x = 8, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
o4b2o$b2o3b2o$2o3bo!


A tough predecessor of that:
x = 17, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
3bo$3bo4b2ob2o$2b3ob9o$4ob8o$2b9ob3o$9o3bo$2b2o2b2o4b3o$5b2o2bob2o$6bo
4bo$6bo2bo$6b2o3bo$5b6o$5b7o$6bo4b3obo$5bo3bob4o$10b5obo$11b4o$9bo5bo$
13bo!
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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