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The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 6:55 pm

2718281828 wrote:Here, I posted a dove to G...
It fits well to this...

I think this finally almost justifies the "D" in the first post. We have a way to get from a century to a dove to a glider, and eventually back to a dove again.

However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again. We have the old Fx176 Herschel-to-pi-to-dove-to-Herschel, but we can't mix and match that with this other path, the catalysts are on opposite sides and there's no room on the other side.

This new path does look promising for getting something else out, though -- a different glider, at least, and that would be enough to certify a dove as a branch point.

-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution?
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » December 6th, 2018, 7:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:Entity Valkyrie has pointed out in the LifeWiki PF35W article that the new improved PF35W, like the previous variant, allows for an F176 as well as an Fx176 -- both with a repeat time of 73 instead of 75, and with better clearance for following dependent conduit gliders. So the Herschel conduit ZIP file in Golly's pattern collection is a bit out of date there.


Related: here's a cute p2 way to tighten a row from the W-to-H.

x = 51, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
32.2A$27.2B.2B2AB$20.2A4.3A5B$20.A.A4.B2.5B$17.BA.A.3A3.9B$14.2A.B2A
5.A3.8B$B12.B2A2B6.2A.3BD7B2.2B2.2B$8B6.4B6.6B2D15BD$4BC4B3.6B8.6BD
14BDBD$2B3C4B2.6B7.7B2D3B2A9B3DB$2BCBC4B.7B6.13B2A11BD$2BC15B5.25B$
19B3.12B.2B.3B.B$2.30B$4.29B$5.20B3D8B$4.23BD9B$4.21B3D8B$2.2AB.3B2.
21B$.A.AB6.20B$.A8.20B$2A7.12B.8B.B$8.10B5.8B2A$7.4B.6B6.7B.A$6.4B3.B
.B10.5BA3.2A$5.4B5.3B7.5B2.A.A2.A$4.4B5.B2AB7.2A3.2A2.3A$3.4B7.2A9.A
2.A2.2A$2.4B16.3A4.2A2.A$.4B17.A9.2A!


EDIT:

dvgrn wrote:-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution?


They are different patterns; they just have similar-looking first steps--run the isolated wing and dove to completion to see that they are indeed different explosions.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby 2718281828 » December 6th, 2018, 9:46 pm

dvgrn wrote:However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.

Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?

Still, another dove to G:
x = 31, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
4$17.A$5.2A8.3A$4.A2BA6.A$4.BABA2B4.2A$4.2BA9B$6.8B$8.11B2.B$8.11B.3B
$8.15B$9.15B$7.17B$6.5B3C11B$7.4BCBC11B$7.3BC2BC11B$7.2BC2BC13B$7.3B
2C14B$7.18B$6.19B$5.21B$5.7B.13B$6.19B$6.21B$6.22B$6.4BD8B2.6B$8.2B2D
8B2.3B$9.DBD7B$9.8B$15.B$14.3B$14.B2AB$15.2A!

It also fits:
x = 88, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
74.A$62.2A8.3A$61.A2BA6.A$61.BABA2B4.2A$61.2BA9B$53.A8.9B$45.2A5.A.A
6.15B2.B$46.A4.2BAB7.14B.3B$46.A.AB2.2B8.18B$47.2AB.B.6B2.20B$49.11B
2.19B$40.A9.10B2.6B3D11B$39.A.A7.13B.5BDBD11B$39.A.A5.20BD2BD11B$37.
3A.2A4.19BD2BD13B$36.A4.B5.20B2D14B$37.3AB2AB3.35B$39.A.2A39B$43.40B$
43.7B3D30B$43.7BDBD29B$44.6BD2BD3B6.21B$43.9B2D3B6.22B$43.15B5.4BD8B
2.6B$44.13B8.2B2D8B2.3B$44.12B10.DBD7B$28.B16.10B11.8B$28.2B18.10B14.
B$28.3B17.11B3.B8.3B$28.4B13.14B2.3B7.B2AB$29.4B11.20B8.2A$30.4B8.23B
.B$31.4B6.25B2A$15.4B13.4B5.25B2A$16.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$17.4B5.B2AB4.4B.
28B$18.4B5.3B5.27B2.B$19.4B3.B.B6.31B$20.4B.6B4.32B$21.10B2.34B$13.2A
7.45B$14.A8.42B.B2A$14.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$15.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$17.21B3D18B
10.2A$17.23BD17B$18.20B3D14B$17.38B$15.39B$13.19B3.17B$13.2BC15B5.14B
$12.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$13.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$12.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$11.10B
6.4B7.A6.2A$10.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$10.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$8.4B18.BA.A.A
7.2A$8.2A23.A.A.2A$9.A23.A.A.2A$6.3A25.A$6.A!


Edit1:
Another one Dove-to-G:
x = 36, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
3$5.A$5.3A$8.A$7.2A$7.4B$9.2B$8.5B$6.8B$4.11B$3.13B$2.16B$3.8B2D7B$3.
9B2D6B11.2A$2.9BD8B12.A$3.19B7.3A$4.5B3C10B7.A$4.5BCBC17B$5.3BC2BC18B
$5.2BC2BC20B$6.2B2C22B$6.26B$7.4B.2B6.12B$8.2B10.10B$21.6B$23.3B!

also fitting:
x = 97, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
5$61.A$61.3A$64.A$63.2A$63.4B$65.2B$64.5B$62.8B$60.11B$50.A8.13B$42.
2A5.A.A6.16B$43.A4.2BAB7.8B2D7B$43.A.AB2.2B8.9B2D6B11.2A$44.2AB.B.6B
2.9BD8B12.A$46.11B2.19B7.3A$37.A9.10B2.6B3D10B7.A$36.A.A7.13B.5BDBD
17B$36.A.A5.20BD2BD18B$34.3A.2A4.19BD2BD20B$33.A4.B5.20B2D22B$34.3AB
2AB3.44B$36.A.2A30B6.12B$40.28B8.10B$40.7B3D19B8.6B$40.7BDBD19B10.3B$
41.6BD2BD3B6.8B$40.9B2D3B9.2B$40.15B$41.13B$41.12B$25.B16.10B$25.2B
18.10B$25.3B17.11B3.B$25.4B13.14B2.3B$26.4B11.20B$27.4B8.23B.B$28.4B
6.25B2A$12.4B13.4B5.25B2A$13.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$14.4B5.B2AB4.4B.28B$15.
4B5.3B5.27B2.B$16.4B3.B.B6.31B$17.4B.6B4.32B$18.10B2.34B$10.2A7.45B$
11.A8.42B.B2A$11.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$12.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$14.21B3D18B10.2A$
14.23BD17B$15.20B3D14B$14.38B$12.39B$10.19B3.17B$10.2BC15B5.14B$9.3BC
BC4B.7B7.13B$10.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$9.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$8.10B6.4B7.A6.
2A$7.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$7.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$5.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A$5.2A
23.A.A.2A$6.A23.A.A.2A$3.3A25.A$3.A!


Edit2:
A signal splitter, Dove to G+R, the position of the R doesn't look too bad, still it does not fit with something else:
x = 38, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
2$8.A$8.3A$11.A$10.2A$10.4B$12.2B$11.5B$9.8B$7.11B$6.13B$5.10BD5B$6.
9B2D6B$6.8BDBD6B$5.18B$6.19B$7.5B3C10B$7.5BCBC15B4.B$8.3BC2BC17B.B2A$
8.2BC2BC6BD13B2A$9.2B2C7B3D10B.B$9.12BD10B$10.4B.2B6.8B$11.2B11.7B$
25.5B$26.2B!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 10:33 pm

2718281828 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.

Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?

No, I think any branch to a different signal counts as a real branch point. The key is that the output signal can itself be converted to any other type of signal.

Just add a syringe to the D-to-G to get a Herschel, or whatever other signal type is wanted -- and it will be a Herschel at a spacetime location that you can't get from the other D-to-G. That means it's really time to add C-to-D and D-to-G categories to the Elementary Conduits Collection.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Freywa » December 7th, 2018, 4:44 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:BF293B:
x = 71, y = 80, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$9bob2o6$16bo$15bobo$16b2o12$b2o$b2o7$58b2o10bo$58b2o8b3o$
67bo$67b2o3$2b2o62b2o$3bo62b2o$3o4b2o3b2o$o6bo4bo2bo$5bobo5b3o$5b2o$
12bob2o$12b2obo$26b2o$25bobo$25bo$24b2o2$63b2o$63b2o2$21b2o$21bobo$22b
2o32bo$18b2o35b3o$17bobo35bob2o$17bo$16b2o7$24b2o$24b2o9$36b2o$32b2o2b
2o$31bobo$31bo$30b2o!

Made of BLx134B and BRx159B.
Extremely high repeat time.


Actually made of BLx154H, HLx111R and RF28B.
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