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Soup search results

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Re: Soup search results

Postby Macbi » February 11th, 2019, 9:10 am

calcyman wrote:Well, if longevity were more important than bounding box, it would be trumped by a glider aimed at a very distant blinker. I like Oscar's L/MCPS metric, which gives a ratio of 1283.4 for 47487M. Again, the longest-lived methuselah which beats that is simeks' remarkable 9x6 Lidka variant (1941.7).

I like the MCPS metric as a measure of size, but I'm not sure about L/MCPS as a measure of methuselahiness. It seems easy to game. In the same way that a glider aimed at a block does well for L/P, a simple semisnark chain does well for L/MCPS.

If we had a smooth function f such that the lifespan of the best methuselahs was approximately f(MCPS) then we could judge methuselahs by a metric like MCPS - f^-1(L). But given that we know that such an f has to grow uncomputably quickly, I don't think we'll ever be able to practically use a method like this.

I'd rather just describe a partial order: a pattern is a better methuselah if it has both a longer lifespan and a smaller MCPS. Then we can say that the record methuselahs are the ones on the Pareto frontier, without trying to compare between them by boiling them down to a single number. By these standards the best methuselahs are currently
Name                     MCPS   L
Bit                      1      1
obo2$bo!                 3      2
bo2$3o!                  4      11
R-pentomino grandparents 5      1105
Multum in parvo          7      3933
Acorn                    8      5206
7468M                    9      7468
Rabbits                  10     17331
Bunnies                  11     17332
Bunnies 11               12     17465
18034M                   13     18034
23334M                   14     23334
Lidka predecessor        15     29126
Eve                      26     30046
47575M variant           37     47487
47575M                   132    47575
???
Recursive filter         <20000 >2→2→3→6
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » February 11th, 2019, 2:46 pm

Aha, now calcyman has pulled into the lead fairly decisively in the "messless" department as well -- though not by quite such a large margin as for methuselahs. The soup in the new 11h C1 bin is a 1152-tick diehard:

#C messless_11h (C1)
#C Soup l_g4FSCDtejgap7479363 was found on 2019-02-11 at 17:28:26 UTC
#C      and is owned by apgoucher@gmx.com
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bob4ob2o2bo$b5obo2b3o2bo$bo2b2o7bo$3obobobobob4o$o2b2obo4bob3o$2ob2o2b
3obob3o$b5ob4o$b2obobo2bo2b2o$3bob2ob3o2b2o$2b3o2bob3o$2obo2b3o2bobobo
$b4obo4bob3o$bo4bo2b2o3bo$bob3o2b2o2bo$2bo2bobob2o4bo$bobo2bob3o2bobo!

By T=63 it has already settled into almost complete boring stability:

x = 20, y = 28, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$9b2o11$2b3o4b3o3$13b2ob2o$13b2ob2o2$9b2o7b2o$9b2o7b2o5$18bo$17bob
o$2o16b2o$2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby alphazelf » February 11th, 2019, 5:13 pm

9 glider synthesis for 47487M
x = 30, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
$26.A$26.A.A$26.2A$5.A.A$6.2A12.A$6.A11.A.A$19.2A$23.D$22.3D$22.3D$9.
D$9.D$5.2A2.D$6.2A$5.A3$4.A$2.A.A$3.2A4.A.A3.A$9.2A3.DC.A$3.C6.A3.DCA
$3.CA13.2A$2.ADAD12.A.A$4.2D12.A!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Moosey » February 11th, 2019, 5:23 pm

alphazelf wrote:9 glider synthesis for 47487M
x = 27, y = 25, rule = LifeHistory
24.A$24.A.A$24.2A$3.A.A$4.2A12.A$4.A11.A.A$17.2A$21.D$20.3D$20.3D$7.D
$7.D$3.2E2.D$4.2E$3.E3$2.E$E.E$.2E4.A.A3.A$7.2A3.DC.A$.C6.A3.DCA$.CA
13.2A$ADAD12.A.A$2.2D12.A!

Some of those gliders would have crashed and could not come from infinity.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby calcyman » February 12th, 2019, 2:25 am

Well, this was unexpected:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obobo2bobob2o2bo$3ob2ob2ob2obobo$4o3b3ob5o$o2b2o7bo$3b3obobo4bo$2bo2b
3o3bobobo$2o2bobobo3bobo$b2o6b2ob2o$2bo3bo5b4o$o2b8o3bo$2b2o3bob2obo2b
o$b6ob6obo$8obo3b3o$2b2o4bob5o$2obo2bo2b2ob4o$ob3o8bobo!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby gmc_nxtman » February 12th, 2019, 3:02 am

Congratulations.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby wildmyron » February 12th, 2019, 3:03 am

calcyman wrote:Well, this was unexpected:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obobo2bobob2o2bo$3ob2ob2ob2obobo$4o3b3ob5o$o2b2o7bo$3b3obobo4bo$2bo2b
3o3bobobo$2o2bobobo3bobo$b2o6b2ob2o$2bo3bo5b4o$o2b8o3bo$2b2o3bob2obo2b
o$b6ob6obo$8obo3b3o$2b2o4bob5o$2obo2bo2b2ob4o$ob3o8bobo!

Wow. I almost can't believe it's taken so long for that to appear. Ignition appears to be so simple and it just takes off. Evidently it's not that simple, but it certainly looks that way!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby muzik » February 12th, 2019, 7:45 am

x = 15, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
5bo$5bo$4b2o$4bo5bo$4bo4b2o$9bo3$2bo$bob2o7bo$2b2o7b3o$11b3o$13bo$5b2o
7bo$5b2o6bo$3b3o$2b3o$bobobo$3ob3o$bobobo$2b3o$3bo!


Still no loafer. This is a breath of fresh air, though.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby mniemiec » February 12th, 2019, 2:02 pm

muzik wrote:...

Unfortunately, this doesn't lead to an improved synthesis, as all of these pieces would take around 12 gliders to assembler manually, while the best current synthesis takes only 10. It might still be possible if some 3-glider collisions could produce two pieces in the right proximity.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » February 12th, 2019, 2:29 pm

wildmyron wrote:Ignition appears to be so simple and it just takes off. Evidently it's not that simple, but it certainly looks that way!

I did some hunting around in Mark's database, and the 3/4 TL + 3/4 honeyfarm reaction is well known as a source of LWSS-on-LWSS:

x = 55, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
46.A$45.A.A$44.2A.2A$49.A$44.4A.2A$43.A5.A$3.A39.A6.A$3.A.A36.A6.3A$
4.2A37.3A3.3A$52.A$2.C3.C35.C3.C5.2A$.C5.C33.C5.C3.A2.A$C3.C3.C3.D4.D
4.D3.D4.D4.D3.C3.C3.C4.A$C2.C.C2.C31.C2.C.C2.C$C3.C3.C31.C3.C3.C$.C5.
C33.C5.C$2.C3.C35.C3.C$3.3C37.3C4$3C3.3C31.3C3.3C2$4.C39.C$4.C39.C$4.
C39.C!
#C [[ STOP 22 ]]

So the leading spaceship part is about as simple to ignite as it looks (7 gliders). The lucky part was the reaction that convinces the post-honeyfarm mess to coalesce into a pre-TL at just the right time and place. Small changes to the green cells on the right in the pattern above all seem to prevent the pre-TL from forming.

Hit F1 or click the pencil to try changes to the green cells in this new LifeViewer build. (!)
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 12th, 2019, 11:17 pm

calcyman wrote:Well, this was unexpected:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
obobo2bobob2o2bo$3ob2ob2ob2obobo$4o3b3ob5o$o2b2o7bo$3b3obobo4bo$2bo2b
3o3bobobo$2o2bobobo3bobo$b2o6b2ob2o$2bo3bo5b4o$o2b8o3bo$2b2o3bob2obo2b
o$b6ob6obo$8obo3b3o$2b2o4bob5o$2obo2bo2b2ob4o$ob3o8bobo!

No way! A C1 Schick engine?
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » February 13th, 2019, 4:40 pm

Well, I will just add my congratulations. This was the first natural new spaceship period for so long!
zdr wrote:Nice archive.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 16th, 2019, 1:30 am

Anyone thinks they can synthesize this still life from this element in a soup?
x = 13, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
10b3o$2b3o2$o$o8b2o$o6bobo$7b2o9$11bo$11bo$11bo!

EDIT: Or this less bashy synthesis:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
ob3obo2bo2b3o$b2o2b2obo2b4o$3bo2bo3b6o$bobo2b2ob3ob3o$o4bo2bob2ob2o$3o
2b2obo3bob2o$2b5o3bobo2bo$6bo2bo2bo2bo$o2b3o2b4ob3o$bo2bob3o2b2o$2bob
4obobo$obobobo2b4obo$b3ob2ob3obo2bo$o3b2o2bo$obo2bob2obo2bo$b2obo3bobo
bob2o!
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 16th, 2019, 3:23 pm

I feel proud of myself for downloading precompiled apgluxe and discovering my first object. Not anything remarkable, though:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2o2bob6obo$o2b2ob2ob3o2bo$ob3obo4bo2bo$2bobob6ob3o$o3bo3b3o2b2o$5o2b7o
bo$bo3b3ob2o$bobo2b3obo2b3o$2bob4obo2bobo$ob2obobobobob2o$o3bo3bob3ob
2o$5ob4o2b2obo$2bo3bo3b2ob3o$4obo3b2obob2o$3o3b7ob2o$4b2obo3bo3bo!
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » February 16th, 2019, 3:29 pm

Holy cow that's a big asymmetric p2.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 17th, 2019, 5:08 pm

testitemqlstudop wrote:Holy cow that's a big asymmetric p2.

It was symmetric, but it got hit by a LOM to the southeast.
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby calcyman » February 18th, 2019, 9:58 am

I don't know where this belongs, but wildmyron's ikpx+apgluxe search has succeeded in finding a c/4 diagonal tubstretcher. It's not the first c/4 diagonal tubstretcher, but it might be the first demonstration that 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts': neither ikpx nor apgluxe would have been able to find this in isolation:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl4_1_2_0fb69a5aaa4f423879656123636f3256/b3s23

Maybe it's worth trying (nt)zfind+apgluxe, gfind+apgluxe, and so forth.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby testitemqlstudop » February 18th, 2019, 10:24 am

Wow, good job! The stdin symmetry is useful, after all.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 18th, 2019, 11:27 am

calcyman wrote:I don't know where this belongs, but wildmyron's ikpx+apgluxe search has succeeded in finding a c/4 diagonal tubstretcher. It's not the first c/4 diagonal tubstretcher, but it might be the first demonstration that 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts': neither ikpx nor apgluxe would have been able to find this in isolation:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl4_1_2_0fb69a5aaa4f423879656123636f3256/b3s23

Maybe it's worth trying (nt)zfind+apgluxe, gfind+apgluxe, and so forth.

Nice! Here it is, for the record:
x = 46, y = 81, rule = B3/S23
3o$o$bo$3o$3ob2o3$3bo$2b2o$2bo$3b3o2$3b2obo$3b2o$5bobo2$7b3o2$9bobobo$
11b2obo$9bo3bo$9b3o$9bo$9bobo2$10b3o$10bobo4bo$13b3obo$10b5o2bo$14b2o$
11bob3ob2o$12bobo2bo$13bo4bo2$18b2o3b2o$17b2o3b2o$16b2ob2obobo$21bobo$
20bob3o$24b2o$21bob2obo$27bo$26b3o2$26bo$27bo$26bobo$26bo$26bo$26bobo$
25b3o$25bo2bo$26bo$24b3obo$24b2o$24bo$23b2obo2$24bo3bo$25bo2b2obo$26b
3obo$26bobobo$30bobo$30b3o$32b2o$33b3o$29b2o$29bobo4bo$29bo3b3o$32b2ob
2o$36b2o2$35b2obo2$37bobo$40bo$39b3o$35bob2ob2o$34b3obo4b2o$34bo2b3o5b
o$39bo4b2o!
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Ian07 » February 18th, 2019, 11:49 am

C4_4-symmetric 1545-tick diehard found by carybe on February 12th:
x = 32, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
obboboboboooboobbobbbbboooobbbbo$
boobbbboooboboooooooboobbobobbob$
bbbooooboooobbbbobooobboobbbbbob$
bbbooobboobbboboobobooboobbooobo$
bobooooooboboboooobbbbbboooooobb$
obbboboobbbobooobbobobbboobooobo$
oobboobbbbbooboooobbbbbbbboobobb$
oboooobooooobbobbobobooooboobboo$
oboobbboboobooobboooobobobboooob$
bobbbbboobbbobbbbbooobboobbboooo$
bobobbbobbbooobboobbobboobbobobo$
bboobobboooboboobbbobobbooobbooo$
boobbbbooobobobbbobboooobobobbbb$
booobobboobbbobboboobobobboboboo$
oobbobooobobobbbbbbbobbooooobboo$
boooobobbbobbobbbbbbobbbboooobob$
boboooobbbbobbbbbbobbobbboboooob$
oobbooooobbobbbbbbbobobooobobboo$
oobobobboboboobobbobbboobbobooob$
bbbboboboooobbobbbobobooobbbboob$
ooobbooobbobobbboobobooobboboobb$
obobobboobbobboobbooobbbobbbobob$
oooobbboobbooobbbbbobbboobbbbbob$
boooobboboboooobboooboobobbboobo$
oobbooboooobobobbobboooooboooobo$
bboboobbbbbbbbooooboobbbbboobboo$
oboooboobbbobobbooobobbboobobbbo$
bboooooobbbbbbooooboboboooooobob$
obooobboobooboboobobbboobbooobbb$
bobbbbboobbooobobbbbooooboooobbb$
bobbobobboobooooooobobooobbbboob$
obbbboooobbbbbobboobooobobobobbo!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby dvgrn » February 18th, 2019, 12:24 pm

Ian07 wrote:C4_4-symmetric 1545-tick diehard found by carybe on February 12th...

Interesting -- the first C4_4 diehard in the 14h bin (also found by carybe if I remember right) lasts 1410 ticks, and converges to the exact same pattern after 204 ticks. Really it's the same except for central dying sparks after 170 ticks -- four Herschel descendants interacting with four blocks:

x = 56, y = 48, rule = B3/S23
7$17b2o7bo2b2o5bo2bob2obo$14bob7obo5b2o3bobo2b2obo$15bo2b2ob5obob3o3bo
b2o2bo2bo$14bo2b9obo7bob3o2bob2o$14b3o2b3obobobo2bo4bob3o2b4o$15bo4bob
2obob5o2b3o4b4o$14bo2b2obobo5bo2b3ob2ob5obo$16b3ob2ob3obo2b2o6bo2b4o$
15b4o4bo2b3obo3bo4b2ob3o$14bo4b2o2b2o3b7ob3ob4o$15b6o4bo3bo2bobobobo3b
3o$19bo2b3ob4ob3obo2bob4o$20bo2bob3o2b2ob2o2bo7bo$20bo2b3o2b3o2b2o2b2o
b4o$15b2o2b3obob2obob3obob2ob2o$14b3ob2ob3o2b5obob3o3bo2bobo$14bobo2bo
3b3obob5o2b3ob2ob3o$19b2ob2obob3obob2obob3o2b2o$16b4ob2o2b2o2b3o2b3o2b
o$14bo7bo2b2ob2o2b3obo2bo$16b4obo2bob3ob4ob3o2bo$15b3o3bobobobo2bo3bo
4b6o$16b4ob3ob7o3b2o2b2o4bo$15b3ob2o4bo3bob3o2bo4b4o$15b4o2bo6b2o2bob
3ob2ob3o$15bob5ob2ob3o2bo5bobob2o2bo$15b4o4b3o2b5obob2obo4bo$14b4o2b3o
bo4bo2bobobob3o2b3o$14b2obo2b3obo7bob9o2bo$15bo2bo2b2obo3b3obob5ob2o2b
o$16bob2o2bobo3b2o5bob7obo$15bob2obo2bo5b2o2bo7b2o!

Oddly enough, the "Herschel descendants" don't actually have Herschel ancestors in either case.

The bottleneck here is simple enough that it will probably be showing up again relatively soon -- or maybe there are already other examples in the C4_4 13h bin, I haven't looked.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby wildmyron » February 19th, 2019, 1:24 am

calcyman wrote:I don't know where this belongs, but wildmyron's ikpx+apgluxe search has succeeded in finding a c/4 diagonal tubstretcher. It's not the first c/4 diagonal tubstretcher, but it might be the first demonstration that 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts': neither ikpx nor apgluxe would have been able to find this in isolation:

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/yl4_1_2_0fb69a5aaa4f423879656123636f3256/b3s23

Thanks for posting this - I had no idea where it belonged either, and I'm not sure if it's particularly significant. The tub stretching output is p4 itself so ikpx is pretty much giving the complete pattern, it just doesn't detect it as a result. I have some further thoughts on this which I'll post to the ikpx thread.

Here's the smallest c/4d tubstretcher I found in jslife-moving which uses the same stretching mechanism.
x = 21, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
3o$o2b3o$bobo$6bo$4bo6b2o$6bob2ob2o$10b2o$7bo2bo$8b3o5b2o$8bo7bobo$7bo
8bo$6bo3b3o4bo$8bo2b2o2b3o$8bobobobo3b2o$14b2o2$15bo$15bo$17bo$17bobo$
18bobo$19bo!


There are now > 40,000 distinct xq4 objects in the stdin_xq4_diag census, most of which are only there because of incomplete spaceship separation. I'll try to post-process and get a list of unique ships found in the search. Unfortunately no higher period c/4d patterns were found, but I've terminated the search for now.
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » February 19th, 2019, 11:45 pm

Looks like I found the second trans-very-long-boat-with-longhook-tail on cis-para-beacon or something like that:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oobobbbbbboboooo$
obbobobobbbboooo$
oobobbbbbbobobob$
bobbobobbooooobo$
oboooboboobooobo$
obobobboobbboobo$
bobbooobbbooobbb$
obobbbbbbboooboo$
boboobobobobbboo$
bboobboobobbooob$
oobbooobobooooob$
bbbooobbobbbobob$
bbooboooobooobbo$
boooobbbbobbbbbo$
oobbbboboobboobo$
ooboobbooboooobo!

EDIT: Looks like it separates into a tub and junk with a domino injection applied later on.
EDIT: After poring over the notation, I think it's "trans-very-long-boat-weld-long-hook on cis-beacon down".
EDIT: And oddly, the first one was found by rliston 3 days ago: https://catagolue.appspot.com/attribute/xp2_gw8ka53zh15dz11/b3s23
Life is hard. Deal with it.
My favorite oscillator of all time:
x = 7, y = 3, rule = B3-r4j/S2-i3
o5bo$2o3b2o$b2ob2o!
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Re: Soup search results

Postby Ian07 » 31 minutes ago

1190-tick diehard in C1:
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bobbbobobbobbbob$
oboooobbbobboobb$
bboobobooobboobo$
bobobooobbbbbobb$
obbobooobbbobobb$
ooooobbobooooobo$
obobooobooboobbb$
oboooobbbobbbbbo$
bbbboboooboobboo$
bobbboboobbboobb$
obobooooooobbbbb$
bbbbbobobobbboob$
booboboobbbooooo$
obbbooobbbbbbooo$
boboobbbbobboobo$
oobooboooobbobbb!


Haul: https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s2 ... 1bbe781be9 (Adam P. Goucher)
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