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c/7 orthogonal spaceships

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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby velcrorex » April 3rd, 2013, 6:44 pm

When I searched at width 9, I previewed a few of the search results and nothing too exciting came up. Most were essentially narrower patterns, since there is a "long" partial at width 5 or 6. There was one that looked like the front 2/3rds of the loafer, but it didn't seem to be all that promising. I did not preform the search in such a way to easily pick out the longest partial.

I've looked for loafer tagalongs, with no success. It's entirely possible I've overlooked one; my search was not systematic.
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby HartmutHolzwart » April 5th, 2013, 9:50 am

I wonder whether this partial result can be completed:

#P 0 0
#R S23/B3
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
............................**.............................................
..*........................*..*....*.......................................
.*.*..*.*.*................*...*.**........................................
*..*..*...**....***...**.*.*...****........................................
.**..**.*...**.*..****...**...*............................................
......*..*....*..**.*.*******...***........................................
..............*.....*...........***........................................
......*..*....*..**.*.*******...***........................................
.**..**.*...**.*..****...**...*............................................
*..*..*...**....***...**.*.*...****........................................
.*.*..*.*.*................*...*.**........................................
..*........................*..*....*.......................................
............................**.............................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
...........................................................................
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby dvgrn » September 14th, 2013, 12:09 pm

skomick wrote:Here's the 8-glider version [of the p210 loafer gun]...

Attached are two versions of a period-2^23 loafer gun. They both repeatedly build a Blockic loafer seed and detonate it. The spiral version is fun to watch, but the linear version is much quicker for Golly Hashlife to handle.

About the only redeeming feature I can think of for this ridiculous device is that it can be easily modified to make various new types of objects -- e.g., a tethered loafer rake. But really it's just a test pattern for single-arm 9hd Geminoid construction.
Attachments
loafer-guns-p8388608.zip
Period 2^23 loafer guns -- linear and spiral versions
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby towerator » September 15th, 2013, 5:38 am

Wow, it's by far the slowest guns I've ever seen!
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby dvgrn » September 15th, 2013, 6:32 am

towerator wrote:Wow, it's by far the slowest guns I've ever seen!

Yes, if there was a prize for the least efficient loafer gun, I might actually win something... But for guns in general, this isn't even in the running as far as slowness goes. You can take an eater off of Golly's Patterns/Life/Oscillators/p103079214841.rle, for example, or turn Calcyman's 2^607-1 or 2^44497-1 Mersenne-prime oscillators into guns in the same way.

I seem to recall Calcyman was thinking about building a p2^43112609-1 oscillator/gun a few years back, but now to keep up with the times I suppose it would have to be p2^57885161 − 1... I'm afraid Golly would need a few tweaks to run either one of those through a full cycle.
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby towerator » September 15th, 2013, 6:44 am

The awesome fact in this pattern is that it shows that non-gemini replicators exist, and it is possible to know the coding salvos:
first, a salvo scouts the area, checking for an existant replicator, to prevent an huge chaos
second, a salvo builds the frame of the replica
third, a salvo processes the DNA replication sequence (making everything being replicated into the empty frame, and puts a delayer in the frame for safety)
fourth, a small salvo rotates the arm
fifth, once the program has run twice (except if step 1 detects something), the last salvo triggers the autodestruction sequence.
The result is two replicators ready to become 4.
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby dvgrn » April 15th, 2015, 7:05 pm

dvgrn wrote:
MikeP wrote:Stable loafer to B-heptomino converter, feeding into a standard conduit: ...

The repeat time for this converter is wonderfully short -- only 93 ticks. I don't think we even know how to construct loafers that close together; the current limit seems to be somewhere around 150 ticks.

137ben wrote:The minimum distance between loafers in a single lane is 73 ticks...

Just happened to look back at MikeP's loafer-to-H converter and saw these notes. It turns out that chris_c's slow-salvo-compatible loafer recipe can be adapted to build loafers following each other at the minimum distance:

x = 75, y = 55, rule = B3/S23
64bo$62b2o$63b2o4$38b2o$39bo$39bobo$40b2o2$28bo$27bobo$26bobo$26b2o$
39b2o$38bobo$38b2o4$45b2o$44bobo$35bo9bo$34bobo4bo$35b2o3bobo$39bobo$
39b2o6$26bo47bo$25bobo26b2o16b3o$26b2o21b2o3b2o15bo$48bo2bo19b2o$48bo
2bo$49b2o3$7bo$4b5o$bobo5bo40b2o$2bob2o2bo41bobo4b2o$6b2o43bo5bobo$bo
56b2o$2obo58b2o$bo2bo57b2o$bo2bo$2b2o$51b2o$50bo2bo$50bo2bo$51b2o!
[[ AUTOSTART PAUSE 3 ZOOM 4 GRID LOOP 400 ]]

Each loafer has to be built in front of the previous one, though.

That means there's certainly a way to make some kind of strange growing spaceship/rake that builds loafer seeds, which are triggered at just the right moment by chained glider turners and splitters to produce a growing p73 loafer stream traveling in the same direction. But I think a p73 loafer gun will need some new construction technology -- unless loafers are slow enough that some kind of slide-gun mechanism could be set up...?
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby Kiran » May 15th, 2015, 11:50 am

About how big (and hard to find) would a stable G->L be?
If one is constructed it would make a stable loafer reflector.
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby dvgrn » May 15th, 2015, 12:16 pm

Kiran wrote:About how big (and hard to find) would a stable G->L be?
If one is constructed it would make a stable loafer reflector.

It might depend a little on what compression rate you want, because it costs more to route circuits to avoid all signal crossings. But in general a G-to-L is very easy to build, though a bit tedious. Based on a circuit that synchronized five gliders with very old technology -- see Golly's heisenburp.py -- I'd say that it's a pretty safe bet that a stable loafer reflector could fit inside 500x500 nowadays. Maybe that's an overestimate, but it's hard to tell without trying...!

Add enough conduits to a syringe G-to-H to get eight glider outputs, and bounce them around with Snarks and syringes and such until they're timed exactly right relative to each other. Send them through syringe G-to-G edge-shooting inserters as necessary to get the ones lined up right that are coming in from one direction, close to each other... and you're all done, as long as you don't fall into the usual trap of trying to minimize the bounding box.

This is almost certainly easier than using the above stable-seed trickery, which would probably need more like 12-15 gliders (build six seeds, then trigger with three synchronized gliders). In a stable converter context, the compression rate will get really bad if you have to build and then trigger a seed.

With any luck nobody will want a Spartan loafer reflector any time soon, but that would just make the diameter of the pattern bigger, by somewhere between a factor of two and an order of magnitude. It's still just about as simple to do.

EDIT: Vaguely related -- 2c/7 orthogonal, not c/7: the glider-to-weekender-to-glider converter could trivially be adapted to make a weekender reflector (but definitely not a Spartan one).
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby Scorbie » August 6th, 2015, 11:36 am

There's a small L-to-Pi but I'm not too sure if this is useful:
x = 25, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
9.3D$9.DBD$3.2B3.BDBD$.24B$.5B2C2BCB2C11B$2A3BC2BC2B2C12B$2AB.2BCBC
16B$.B2.3BC17B$5.8BC11B$5.4B.B3C11B$6.4BC14B$7.B2.BC13B$11.B2C11B$9.
5B$9.2A$10.A$7.3A$7.A!

Just showing that a near-spartan working conduit is possible: (L-to-R with repeat time 420...)
x = 89, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
21.2A13.4B$20.B2AB11.4B$20.3B11.4B$.2A17.2B11.4B$.A5.2A6.B3.70B$2.3A.
A.A5.2AB.B2C2BCB2C52B2A2BAB2A2B$4.A.A7.2A2BC2BC2B2C52BA2BA2B2A3B$4.B
2AB7.4BCBC57BABA7B$5.4B6.5BC59BA8B$6.5B3.12BC59BA2B$4.7B3.10B3C57B3A
2B$3.20BC59BA5B$3.21BC59BA4B$3.22B2C58B2A2B$4.31B$5.3BD26B4.B$7.2D28B
.B2A$7.B2D15B3D11B2A$8.3B2.12BD12B.B$2.2A9.12B3D9B$.A.A9.22B$.A11.20B
$2A12.17B$16.B3.10B$21.8B$22.7B$27.2A$27.A$28.3A$30.A!
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby muzik » March 28th, 2016, 5:25 am

much bump

With the recent discovery of the copperhead, we went from the initial hype to finding c/10 puffers, rakes, guns, and tagalongs as well, within a good few weeks. Meanwhile all we have here is a c/7 ship and some guns from 2013.

I really feel we need to look into loafer tagalongs and loafer-based puffers.
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Re: c/7 orthogonal spaceships

Postby GUYTU6J » February 16th, 2017, 11:48 am

muzik wrote:much bump
I really feel we need to look into loafer tagalongs and loafer-based puffers.

The best tagalog partial for two reflected loafers that came up in my search is this one:
x = 19, y = 97, rule = B3/S23
bo15bo$obo13bobo$o2bo11bo2bo$b2o13b2o2$o5bo5bo5bo$bo3bobo3bobo3bo$2o3b
o2bobo2bo3b2o$o3b2o2bobo2b2o3bo2$4b2o2bobo2b2o$5b4ob4o$5bo2bobo2bo$5b
3o3b3o$6b2o3b2o$5b3o3b3o$2b3o9b3o$bo2b2o7b2o2bo$4bo9bo$5bo7bo$2bobo9bo
bo$b2obo9bob2o$obo3b2o3b2o3bobo$b2o3b3ob3o3b2o$6b2o3b2o$6b2o3b2o$6b2o
3b2o$6b2o3b2o$4bobo5bobo$4bob2o3b2obo$3bo4bobo4bo$7b2ob2o$5bob2ob2obo$
4b3o5b3o$6b3ob3o3$5bo7bo$4bobo5bobo$4bobo5bobo$6bo5bo$4b2o7b2o$4b2o7b
2o$b4o9b4o$o2bo11bo2bo$o4b2o5b2o4bo$bobo11bobo$3bo11bo$3b2o2b2ob2o2b2o
$2bo5bobo5bo$6bo5bo$3b2ob2o3b2ob2o$5bo7bo$6b2o3b2o$7bo3bo$6bo5bo2$4b2o
2bobo2b2o$4bob3ob3obo$3bo2b2o3b2o2bo$2bo13bo$3b2o9b2o$4bo9bo$2o2b2ob2o
b2ob2o2b2o$obob3obobob3obobo$b2o5bobo5b2o$2bo5bobo5bo$8bobo$2b2o2bobob
obo2b2o$b3o11b3o$2b2o11b2o$2b4o7b4o$3b3obo3bob3o$7bo3bo$4b2obo3bob2o$
4b2obo3bob2o$8bobo$6b3ob3o$5bo2bobo2bo2$7b2ob2o$bo4b2o3b2o4bo$o4b3o3b
3o4bo$3bobo7bobo$2ob4o5b4ob2o$8bobo$3b3o2bobo2b3o$b3o4bobo4b3o$ob6o3b
6obo$7bo3bo$obob3o5b3obobo$b2o5bobo5b2o$b3o4bobo4b3o$3bo11bo$3b2obobob
obob2o$3bobob2ob2obobo$4bo9bo!

Its generation 5 looks funny.
Another asymmetric partial with only one loafer(the repeating part isn't found by me,I just found that it could be attached to a loafer):
x = 14, y = 64, rule = B3/S23
11bo$10bobo$9bo2b2o$9bo2bo$10bobo$5b2o3bobo$4bo2bo3bo$4bo5bo$5b4o2bo$
7bo3$6b5o$5bo5b2o$4bo$4bo7bo$10bo$7b2o$5bo2bo3bo$5b2o2bo3bo$4bo2bo2bo$
6b5ob2o$7bobo$7b3o$7b2o$4b3ob2o$4b2o$5bo3$3bo$2bobobob3o$2b2o2bo$5bobo
$6bo$6b2o$2bo2b2ob2o$2bob2o3b2o$3b3o4bo$7bobo2$4b4o$3b4o$2b2ob2o5$b7o$
ob4ob2o$4o3b2o$4b3o$2b3obo$6b2o$b2o2b2ob2o$o2bo2bob2o$bob3o2bo$7bo$4bo
$3b2obo$2o3bo$2o2$2bo!

Well,
velcrorex wrote:Keep hunting everyone. There's (probably) good stuff out there waiting to be discovered.
Anyone please respond my thoughts
etymology of names,
properties of this and this pattern,
and this chemistry-related question.
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