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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 22nd, 2019, 7:00 pm
by Entity Valkyrie
HartmutHolzwart wrote:
cvojan wrote:infinitely extensible c/5 tagalong:
x = 64, y = 67, rule = B3/S23
6bo3b3o5b3o3bo14bo3b3o5b3o3bo$3b2ob5ob2o3b2ob5ob2o8b2ob5ob2o3b2ob5ob2o
$bob2obo5bobobobo5bob2obo4bob2obo5bobobobo5bob2obo$o3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo
3bo2bo3bobo3b5ob5o3bobo3bo$4b3o5b2o3b2o5b3o10b3o5b2o3b2o5b3o$bo2bob3o
13b3obo2bo4bo2bob3o13b3obo2bo$3bo23bo3b2o3bo23bo$31b2o2$28b2o4b2o$27bo
2bo2bo2bo$27bo2bo2bo2bo$28b3o2b3o$25b2o3b4o3b2o$30bo2bo$31b2o$28b2o4b
2o$28b2o4b2o$29bo4bo$24bo14bo$23b3o3bo4bo3b3o$26bobobo2bobobo$26bo3b4o
3bo$28bobo2bobo$25b2ob2o4b2ob2o2$31b2o$30bo2bo$30bo2bo2$28b2o4b2o$27bo
2bo2bo2bo$29b6o$26b3o2b2o2b3o$27bo8bo$29b2o2b2o$28bo6bo$28bo6bo$30bo2b
o$24bo4bo4bo4bo$23bobo2b2o4b2o2bobo2$23b2obo2b2o2b2o2bob2o$30b4o$26bob
obo2bobobo$26b4o4b4o$28bo6bo$31b2o$31b2o2$28b2o4b2o$28b2o4b2o$28b2o4b
2o$26bo2bo4bo2bo$25bo5b2o5bo$26bo4b2o4bo$31b2o$28bo6bo$28b2o4b2o2$30bo
2bo$23b3obo8bob3o$24bo3bobo2bobo3bo$24bobob3o2b3obobo$26b3obo2bob3o$
25b2o10b2o$28bo6bo!


This would fit very well in the spaceship discussion thread!


It resembles the fireship.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 22nd, 2019, 7:43 pm
by Sokwe
cvojan wrote:Some oscillators...

Oscillators belong in the oscillator discussion thread.

I wonder if this "useless discoveries" topic is really justified. Patterns are too frequently posted here when they belong somewhere else. It might be because "useless" does not preclude any other categorization. All Life patterns could be considered "useless" so everything - even things that belong elsewhere - could potentialy fit here.

I have a proposal that might remedy this to some extent: a "Thread for Your Miscellaneous Discoveries". This topic would be for any pattern that doesn't fit in an existing topic and isn't significant enough to deserve its own thread. It would likely also subsume the threads for your "accidental" and "unsure" discoveries.

My main fear is that people would think the "miscellaneous" discoveries thread has higher standards than the "useless" discoveries thread. That would not be my intent. It's essential to have a place to post things that might or might not be interesting or "useful". It's better that a boring pattern get posted than for an interesting pattern to go unposted. My real goal here is mostly to get oscillators and spaceships posted in their respective topics.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 22nd, 2019, 8:14 pm
by dvgrn
Sokwe wrote:I wonder if this "useless discoveries" topic is really justified. Patterns are too frequently posted here when they belong somewhere else. It might be because "useless" does not preclude any other categorization. All Life patterns could be considered "useless" so everything - even things that belong elsewhere - could potentialy fit here.

Still, it does seem like the plurality if not the majority of the posts here do have the "useless" spirit pretty much right: entertaining but not usable stuff, like a search that produces a stable reflector that promptly shoots itself down, or an attempt to weld oscillators together that blows up but produces two pulsars and an MWSS. (I made that one up.)

So it makes sense to me to keep the Useless thread, but encourage people to lean toward "miscellaneous" (which could certainly collect both "unsure" and "accidental" threads) unless they're sure they have something that's useless even for a Life pattern.

Sokwe wrote:I have a proposal that might remedy this to some extent: a "Thread for Your Miscellaneous Discoveries". This topic would be for any pattern that doesn't fit in an existing topic and isn't significant enough to deserve its own thread. It would likely also subsume the threads for your "accidental" and "unsure" discoveries... My real goal here is mostly to get oscillators and spaceships posted in their respective topics.

Another idea would be to give fair warning at the top of the new Miscellaneous thread, and in this Useless thread, that posts (and sequences of posts) that turn out to be a little too interesting to really be Useless or Miscellaneous may be cavalierly moved without warning to the Oscillator or Spaceship or other appropriate collection thread.

That's a bit of work for moderators, but really no more work than a "This belongs on..." post, or a double-posting to the right collection thread. I thought it was an awkward two-step in the PHPBB system -- split followed by merge -- but there's a "Merge posts" that does both steps together. Just have to keep a note of the thread numbers of the likely target collection threads.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 22nd, 2019, 8:21 pm
by dvgrn
Here's a copy of cvojan's post to practice moving to the Oscillator Discussion Thread (t = 1437).

I'll do it eventually if no one else wants to try it: it's "Merge posts" from the menu in the lower right corner, add checkmark for this one post, type "1437" and click "Merge". Ten seconds, tops. Just need to give fair warning that it might happen (and see if anyone objects to the idea).

cvojan wrote:Some oscillators
x = 42, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
b3o3b3o9bo3bo8b3o3b3o$18bobobobo$o3bobo3bo7bobobobo6bo3bobo3bo$o3bobo
3bo5b2obobobob2o4bo3bobo3bo$bobo3bobo6bo2bobobo2bo5bobo3bobo$18bobobob
o$2bo5bo8b2o5b2o7bo5bo$2b2o3b2o7bo3bobo3bo6b2o3b2o$3b2ob2o9bob5obo8b2o
b2o$4bobo9b2obo3bob2o8bobo$3b2ob2o12bobo11b2ob2o$bo3bo3bo6b2obo3bob2o
5bo3bo3bo$o2bo3bo2bo8bobobo7bo2bo3bo2bo$o2bo3bo2bo5bo2bobobo2bo4bo2bo
3bo2bo2$2o7b2o5b2o7b2o4b2o7b2o$2bo5bo9bo5bo8bo5bo$bob2ob2obo7bob2ob2ob
o6b2ob3ob2o$bo3bo3bo7bo3bo3bo$bo3bo3bo7bo3bo3bo7b7o$2obo3bob2o5b2obo3b
ob2o8bobo$bob2ob2obo7bob2ob2obo$o2bo3bo2bo5bo2bo3bo2bo5b2obobob2o$b2ob
obob2o7b2obobob2o6b2o5b2o$2bob3obo9bob3obo8b2o3b2o$o2bo3bo2bo5bo2bo3bo
2bo5b3o3b3o$2obobobob2o5b2obobobob2o$2bobobobo9bobobobo6bo3bobo3bo$2bo
bobobo9bobobobo7b3o3b3o$3bo3bo11bo3bo!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 23rd, 2019, 8:43 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
Unsalvageable paperclip:
x = 34, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
32bo$31bo$31b3o7$29bo$28b2o$28bobo5$2o$b2o$o!
#C [[ STOP 1385 ]]

EDIT: Added STOP command
EDIT: Transparent boats:
x = 24, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
5b2o10b2o$4bo2bo8bo2bo$7b2o6b2o$bo5b3o4b3o5bo$obo3bo2bo4bo2bo3bobo$b2o
3b3o6b3o3b2o2$b2o3b3o6b3o3b2o$obo3bo2bo4bo2bo3bobo$bo5b3o4b3o5bo$7b2o
6b2o$4bo2bo8bo2bo$5b2o10b2o!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 24th, 2019, 5:59 pm
by testitemqlstudop
Methuselahs! Methuselahs everywhere! (all above 10k except some experiments)

https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3 ... methuselah
https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3s2 ... 4f411a0c33

I hacked apgsearch to only log methuselahs and also detail their complete lifespan. Hopefully calcyman's fine with this...

EDIT: Welp, a methuselah that lives for exactly 10000 generations:

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bobo3b2o2bo$o2b5o3b2obo$b2o2b3o4bo2bo$8bo2b5o$7b5obo$o3bobo2bobo$2ob3o
2bob2obo$ob2ob3o3bobobo$4o3b3ob2o2bo$bob6o2bobobo$4obob2o2b2o2bo$3ob4o
3bob3o$bo2b5obo4bo$2bobobobo2b3obo$ob2o4bobob2o$b3ob2o3b2o3bo!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 24th, 2019, 8:25 pm
by 77topaz
testitemqlstudop wrote:I hacked apgsearch to only log methuselahs and also detail their complete lifespan. Hopefully calcyman's fine with this...


That's a clever idea. Because it's only storing the methuselah objects, it shouldn't cause any excessive strain on the server, so I don't expect calcyman would have a problem with it.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 30th, 2019, 7:30 am
by Hunting
Definitely glider-wasting extremely useless synthesis.
x = 102, y = 110, rule = LifeHistory
2.C$C.C9.C$.2C7.C.C$11.2C3$17.C$6.C8.C.C$4.C.C9.2C$5.2C13.2D$19.D2.D$
8.D11.2D$8.D$5.C2.D$3.C.C$4.2C5$12.2D$11.D2.D$12.2D4$26.D$26.D9.D$26.
D9.D$36.D50$95.A$93.2A$94.2A$87.A$86.A$86.3A3$83.3A$85.A$84.A$80.A.A$
80.2A17.A$81.A17.A.A$99.2A3$78.3A$80.A$79.A4$90.3A$92.A$91.A3$94.2A$
93.2A$95.A!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 30th, 2019, 8:17 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
77topaz wrote:
testitemqlstudop wrote:I hacked apgsearch to only log methuselahs and also detail their complete lifespan. Hopefully calcyman's fine with this...


That's a clever idea. Because it's only storing the methuselah objects, it shouldn't cause any excessive strain on the server, so I don't expect calcyman would have a problem with it.

Are we sure this guy is 10?

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 31st, 2019, 1:37 am
by Hunting
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
77topaz wrote:
testitemqlstudop wrote:I hacked apgsearch to only log methuselahs and also detail their complete lifespan. Hopefully calcyman's fine with this...


That's a clever idea. Because it's only storing the methuselah objects, it shouldn't cause any excessive strain on the server, so I don't expect calcyman would have a problem with it.

Are we sure this guy is 10?

Quite off-topic, but that guy is 11 according to his profile.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: January 31st, 2019, 10:55 am
by testitemqlstudop
Hunting wrote:
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:Are we sure this guy is 10?

Quite off-topic, but that guy is 11 according to his profile.


Yes, I'm 11.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 1:37 am
by Hunting
Failed eater!
x = 26, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
19.A$20.A$.A16.3A$2.A.2C18.2C$3A.2C18.2C2$2.C19.C$.C.C17.C.C$2.2C18.
2C!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 3:09 am
by mniemiec
Hunting wrote:Failed eater! ...

An interesting exercise would be to try to find a predecessor to the pattern on the left. A much more challenging exercise would be to do the same, starting with the block and boat already in place.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 3:52 am
by Hunting
mniemiec wrote:
Hunting wrote:Failed eater! ...

An interesting exercise would be to try to find a predecessor to the pattern on the left. A much more challenging exercise would be to do the same, starting with the block and boat already in place.

Yes. However, my GoL skill is bad that I can't find a use for my eater.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 4:01 am
by mniemiec
Hunting wrote:Yes. However, my GoL skill is bad that I can't find a use for my eater.

There's usually no need to specifically develop a new eater or other tool, unless there's some reason why it would fulfill a niche that doesn't already exist, or do a better job than what previously exists (e.g. eating a larger set of patterns, better clearance, faster reset time, smaller footprint, smaller population, easier to synthesize, producing a useful spark as a side-effect, etc.). Merely learning how to construct patterns that perform a specific function can also be a good enough reason.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 4:29 am
by Bullet51
x = 14, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$8bobo$5b2obobob2o$5bobobobobo$7bo3bo$6b2o3b2o2$8b3o$7bo3bo$
2o4bo5bo$2o4bo5bo$6bo5bo$7bo3bo$8b3o!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 8:40 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
If anyone ever needs this specific configuration of loaves, here is your lucky day:
x = 13, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
11bo$10bo$10b3o6$2o6b2o$2o6b2o!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 10:27 pm
by mniemiec
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:If anyone ever needs this specific configuration of loaves, here is your lucky day: ...

You can obtain that exact same pair of loaves by creating the top loaf with two gliders, and adding the bottom one with two more, for a total of four. It takes a minimum of three gliders to make two blocks in that arrangement, so this interaction also takes four, and also needs one more for cleanup. Also, the glider+block just form a honeyfarm, so you could accomplish the same with a honeyfarm and a block and one for cleanup, also five. It's possible that one of the many 3-glider collisions produces this particular pair of loaves.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 4th, 2019, 11:35 pm
by dvgrn
mniemiec wrote:It's possible that one of the many 3-glider collisions produces this particular pair of loaves.

Good guess -- according to Goldtiger997's synthesise-constellation-ee9 script, there's only this one single recipe:

x = 19, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
16bobo$16b2o$17bo7$15bo$15bobo$2bo12b2o$obo$b2o!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 5th, 2019, 1:19 pm
by testitemqlstudop
Mesmerizing:

x = 5, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2ob2o$o3bo$b3o$o2$4bo$b3o$o3bo$2ob2o!


(More technically, 2*R-loaf -> 2*R)

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 5th, 2019, 8:33 pm
by Hdjensofjfnen
testitemqlstudop wrote:Mesmerizing:

x = 5, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2ob2o$o3bo$b3o$o2$4bo$b3o$o3bo$2ob2o!


(More technically, 2*R-loaf -> 2*R)

Is it just me, or does that look remotely like an oscillator?

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 6th, 2019, 11:06 am
by Hunting
Discovered a few days ago by Gustavo6046:
x = 16, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
3.3D$3.D3B$4.D3B$5.4B$6.2B2E$7.BEBE$8.B2E3.E$9.4BEDE$10.B.B2E$9.4B$8.
5B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.2C2B$C.CB$2.C!

Discuss.

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 6th, 2019, 11:44 am
by pcallahan
This seems more appropriate for "useless results" than a separate thread. I don't know if anyone else has run these searches. I wanted to find a palindromic 1xn pattern with infinite growth because, assuming it produced switch engines, there would need to be four of them. I enumerated them as decimal digit encodings, where each digit represents a run of live or dead cells in alternation. It is possible that I missed some with shorter lengths since I excluded runs of 10 and up.

I think the infinite growth pattern with gliders is at least a big enough explosion to be fun to watch. Along the way, I also found a bunch of symmetric tumbler pairs because my code (from 20 years back) does not detect period 14, and I haven't bothered to change it. The cleanest tumbler pair includes two beehives. The others have a lot of extra junk.

As with all these patterns, they are not too hard to memorize as strings of digits (shown). They are palindromes so you just need to remember the first half.

Four SE with gliders.
558431818134855
x = 69, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
5o5b8o4b3ob8ob8ob3o4b8o5b5o!


Four SE without gliders.
41735243434253714
x = 62, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
4ob7o3b5o2b4o3b4o3b4o2b5o3b7ob4o!


Tumbler pair with lots of junk including two pulsars
3464567654643
x = 63, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
3o4b6o4b5o6b7o6b5o4b6o4b3o!


Tumbler pair with eight blocks
5245443445425
x = 51, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
5o2b4o5b4o4b3o4b4o5b4o2b5o!


Unusual "transverse" tumbler pair with some junk.
5174753574715
x = 61, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
5ob7o4b7o5b3o5b7o4b7ob5o!


Separated transverse tumbler pair with a lot of junk.
826641777146628
x = 75, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
8o2b6o6b4ob7o7b7ob4o6b6o2b8o!


Tumbler pair and two dead spark coils with a lot of junk.
41756456765465714
x = 83, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
4ob7o5b6o4b5o6b7o6b5o4b6o5b7ob4o!


Tumbler pair with two additional beehives.
32339341414393323
x = 60, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
3o2b3o3b9o3b4ob4ob4o3b9o3b3o2b3o!

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 6th, 2019, 12:09 pm
by testitemqlstudop
Hdjensofjfnen wrote:
testitemqlstudop wrote:Mesmerizing:

x = 5, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2ob2o$o3bo$b3o$o2$4bo$b3o$o3bo$2ob2o!


(More technically, 2*R-loaf -> 2*R)

Is it just me, or does that look remotely like an oscillator?


Yeah, that was my first thought, "oh my a high-period oscillator" and then I saw it stabilizing and I :cry:

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

PostPosted: February 6th, 2019, 5:35 pm
by testitemqlstudop
One-time clean 5-bit H-to-G

x = 10, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
o$obo$3o$2bo2$7b2o$7bobo$8bo!