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The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby BlinkerSpawn » October 1st, 2017, 5:08 pm

Kazyan wrote:I found some better stabilizations from the search, but nothing completely clean. The yellow eater in this version suppresses a bit of junk that looks like it'd be easy to make clean, but has been so resilient to cleanup that both CatForce (2 catalysts) and Bellman (max-active 9) haven't come up with a clean version. Not that it matters much, since the R output seems too finicky to use, per Jormungant.

rle

Trivially combining your and Jurmongant's suggestions solves the hive:
x = 31, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A$7.A$8.3A$10.A3.2A$14.2A8.2A$24.A$6.2A14.A.A$7.A14.2A$7.A.A$8.2A
19.2E$29.E$27.E.E$27.2E$2A$.A$.A.A$2.2A7$2.C$2.C.C$2.3C22.A$4.C21.A.A
$26.A2.A$24.3A3.A$23.A3.3A$6.12B5.4A$5.D12B9.A$4.2D13B4.2A.2A$3.2D11B
2DB4.A4.2A$4.D10B2D2B5.2A.A2.A$5.D10BD2B6.A.A.A$8.11B6.A2.A$9.2B.7B7.
2A$13.4B$15.3B$14.B2A3B$15.A2.A.A$16.3A.3A$19.A3.A$16.2A.A2.2A$16.A.A
!

Of course, there's still the B's annoying block.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » October 1st, 2017, 5:18 pm

Kazyan wrote:I found some better stabilizations from the search, but nothing completely clean. The yellow eater in this version suppresses a bit of junk that looks like it'd be easy to make clean, but has been so resilient to cleanup that both CatForce (2 catalysts) and Bellman (max-active 9) haven't come up with a clean version. Not that it matters much, since the R output seems too finicky to use, per Jormungant.

x = 31, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A$7.A$8.3A$10.A3.2A$14.2A8.2A$24.A$6.2A14.A.A$7.A14.2A$7.A.A$8.2A
19.2E$29.E$27.E.E$27.2E$2A$.A$.A.A$2.2A7$2.C$2.C.C$2.3C22.A$4.C21.A.A
$26.A2.A$24.3A3.A$23.A3.3A$23.4A$27.A$23.2A.2A$23.A4.2A$24.2A.A2.A$
25.A.A.A$25.A2.A$26.2A!

Well, here's a dependent H-B that probably has no input or output:
x = 32, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory
7.2A$7.A$8.3A$10.A3.2A$14.2A8.2A$24.A$6.2A14.A.A$7.A14.2A5.A$7.A.A17.
3A$8.2A16.A$26.2A3$2A$.A$.A.A$2.2A24.2A$28.A.A$30.A$30.2A4$2.C$2.C.C$
2.3C22.A$4.C21.A.A$26.A2.A$24.3A3.A$23.A3.3A$23.4A$27.A$23.2A.2A$23.A
4.2A$24.2A.A2.A$25.A.A.A$25.A2.A$26.2A3$15.2A$15.A2.A.A$16.3A.3A$19.A
3.A$16.2A.A2.2A$16.A.A!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby calcyman » October 2nd, 2017, 4:03 am

A for awesome wrote:Well, here's a dependent H-B that probably has no input or output:


It definitely has a usable output; the input might be slightly more difficult:

x = 63, y = 72, rule = LifeHistory
38.2A$38.A$39.3A2.2B$41.A3B2A$43.2B2A2B6.2A$43.6B6.A$37.2A3.7B3.BA.A$
38.A4.6B3.B2A5.A$38.A.AB.10B5.3A$39.2AB.10B4.A$41.12B4.2A$41.18B$41.
16B$31.2A8.18B$32.A9.17B$32.A.AB4.19B$33.2AB.20B.B2A$35.21B2.BA.A$35.
20B6.A$36.19B6.2A$35.20B$33.22B$31.24B$31.2BC22B$30.3BCBC20B$31.2B3C
4B.13B4.A$12.2A16.5BC4B2.12B3.A.A$12.A2.A13.10B2.9B.2B4.A2.A$13.3A12.
8B5.11B3.3A3.A$7.2A18.8B4.15BAB2.3A$7.A.A5.3A8.8B.19B4A$2.A6.A4.A2.AB
4.13BD17B.B2.A$2.3A4.2A3.2A2B4.13B2D17B2AB2A$5.A4.B4.B.3B2.12B2D15B3.
AB3.2A$4.2A4.2B2.7B.13BD15B4.2A.A2.A$4.10B.21BD14B5.A.A.A$6.30B3.11B
6.A2.A$5.24B2.4B5.2B.7B7.2A$5.22B3.4B10.4B$6.20B3.4B13.3B$7.20B.4B13.
B2A3B$7.24B15.A2.A.A$10.20B17.3A.3A$9.20B21.A3.A$9.19B19.2A.A2.2A$8.
19B20.A.A$4.17B.4B$3.2A15B.4B$3.2A19B$4.19B$6.16B$5.16B$4.4B.11B$4.3B
.11B$2.2AB3.10B$.A.AB3.9B$.A5.10B2.B$2A3.B.10B.B2A$4.2A13B2A$4.2A11B.
2B$5.12B$5.3B.9B$8.11B$8.12B$9.7B.4B$10.7B.4B$8.B.19B$7.2A3B2A11BD4B$
7.2AB.B2A9B3D4B$8.B2.12BDBD4B$12.11BD6B$13.B2.2B2.10B!


EDIT: This might be a potential route of attack, if the white object can be inserted:

x = 63, y = 72, rule = LifeHistory
38.2A$38.A$39.3A2.2B$41.A3B2A$43.2B2A2B6.2A$43.6B6.A$37.2A3.7B3.BA.A$
38.A4.6B3.B2A5.A$38.A.AB.10B5.3A$39.2AB.10B4.A$41.12B4.2A$41.18B$26.C
14.16B$24.BCB4.2A8.18B$22.3BCB5.A9.17B$20.5BC6.A.AB4.19B$20.3BCB3C5.
2AB.20B.B2A$20.3BC2BCB7.21B2.BA.A$21.2B3C3B6.20B6.A$20.9B7.19B6.2A$
20.8B7.20B$20.8B5.22B$18.10B2.25B$17.16BD22B$16.7B2A8BDBD20B$16.6BABA
8B3D4B.13B4.A$17.5B2A11BD4B2.12B3.A.A$13.2A4.20B2.9B.2B4.A2.A$12.A2.A
5.6B.8B5.11B3.3A3.A$7.2A3.3A12.8B4.15BAB2.3A$7.A.A5.3A8.8B.19B4A$2.A
6.A4.A2.AB4.13BD17B.B2.A$2.3A4.2A3.2A2B4.13B2D17B2AB2A$5.A4.B4.B.3B2.
12B2D15B3.AB3.2A$4.2A4.2B2.7B.13BD15B4.2A.A2.A$4.10B.21BD14B5.A.A.A$
6.30B3.11B6.A2.A$5.24B2.4B5.2B.7B7.2A$5.22B3.4B10.4B$6.20B3.4B13.3B$
7.20B.4B13.B2A3B$7.24B15.A2.A.A$10.20B17.3A.3A$9.20B21.A3.A$9.19B19.
2A.A2.2A$8.19B20.A.A$4.17B.4B$3.2A15B.4B$3.2A19B$4.19B$6.16B$5.16B$4.
4B.11B$4.3B.11B$2.2AB3.10B$.A.AB3.9B$.A5.10B2.B$2A3.B.10B.B2A$4.2A13B
2A$4.2A11B.2B$5.12B$5.3B.9B$8.11B$8.12B$9.7B.4B$10.7B.4B$8.B.19B$7.2A
3B2A11BD4B$7.2AB.B2A9B3D4B$8.B2.12BDBD4B$12.11BD6B$13.B2.2B2.10B!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Jormungant » October 2nd, 2017, 4:02 pm

There is also the possibility of starting with a B instead of a H, that new B-to-H block gets removed with the current construction:

x = 58, y = 64, rule = LifeHistory
13$29.2A$29.A$30.3A2.2B$32.A3B2A$34.2B2A2B6.2A$34.6B6.A$28.2A3.7B3.BA
.A$29.A4.6B3.B2A5.A$29.A.AB.10B5.3A$30.2AB.10B4.A$32.12B4.2A$32.18B$
32.16B$32.18B$33.17B$31.19B$28.20B.B2A$27.20B2.BA.A$26.20B6.A$27.19B
6.2A$14.5B7.20B$14.5B5.22B$14.5B2.25B$14.33B$14.2B2C29B$14.3B2C12B.
13B4.A$14.2B2C13B2.12B3.A.A$14.2BC13B2.9B.2B4.A2.A$14.4B.8B5.11B3.3A
3.A$18.8B4.15BAB2.3A$17.8B.19B4A$14.13BD17B.B2.A$14.12B2D17B2AB2A$14.
11B2D15B3.AB3.2A$14.12B2D14B4.2A.A2.A$14.13B.14B5.A.A.A$14.13B3.11B6.
A2.A$31.2B.7B7.2A$35.4B$37.3B$36.B2A3B$37.A2.A.A$38.3A.3A$41.A3.A$38.
2A.A2.2A$38.A.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » November 5th, 2017, 11:25 am

Is there any way to restore the upper block or replace it with an equivalent catalyst?
x = 28, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
6.A9.A$6.3A5.3A$9.A3.A11.3D$8.2A3.2A10.D.D$24.D2.D$24.2D$10.2C$10.2C
9$21.C$2.2A11.2C3.3C$.A.A11.2C2.2C.C$.A$2A!

(Or bolt on an incomplete C-X that happens to put junk in the right place to delete the irritating mess that destroys the lower block and the eater.)
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » November 28th, 2017, 7:23 pm

A new bottom catalyst combination for the standard RF28B allows it to emit the RNE-19T84 glider:
x = 24, y = 35, rule = LifeHistory
10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.6B7.2A$.7B7.A$.9B2.BA.A$
11B.B2A$9BA3B$.7BABA2B$.7BABA2B$3.B2.3BA3B$7.6B$8.6B$8.7B.2B$8.5B2.3B
$8.2BC11B$8.2B2C9B2D$8.B2C11B2D$8.13B2D$9.12BD$10.11B$10.5B2.2B$10.3B
5.AB$12.2B3.A.A$11.B2A3.2A$12.A.A$10.A.A.5A$10.2A6.A$16.A$16.2A!

EDIT: I guess this counts as a R-to-B+H, even though it's most likely useless outside of the context of the Fx119:
x = 23, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
11.D$10.3D$9.BDB2D$9.6B$9.6B$9.6B$9.6B$8.6B$8.2BC3B$7.2B3C3B$8.3BC2B$
8.7B$6.14B$4.B.2B2A11BD$3.2A3B2A9B3DB$3.2A14BDBD$4.15BD$2.5B2.B2.2B2.
2B$2.2A4.3B$3.A3.B2AB$3A5.2A$A!
Last edited by A for awesome on November 28th, 2017, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » November 28th, 2017, 7:36 pm

A for awesome wrote:A new bottom catalyst combination for the standard RF28B allows it to emit the RNE-19T84 glider...

Interesting! Catalysts right next to the R on both sides, though -- is there any known conduit that can produce an R in that location?
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » November 29th, 2017, 5:49 pm

A for awesome wrote:EDIT: I guess this counts as a R-to-B+H, even though it's most likely useless outside of the context of the Fx119:
x = 23, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
11.D$10.3D$9.BDB2D$9.6B$9.6B$9.6B$9.6B$8.6B$8.2BC3B$7.2B3C3B$8.3BC2B$
8.7B$6.14B$4.B.2B2A11BD$3.2A3B2A9B3DB$3.2A14BDBD$4.15BD$2.5B2.B2.2B2.
2B$2.2A4.3B$3.A3.B2AB$3A5.2A$A!


That makes me think of something like this:
x = 48, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
7.2C$7.2C2$6.3D$7.D24.A$5.3D22.3A$29.A$29.2A7.2A$38.A$36.A.A5.C$36.2A
4.3C$41.C$16.2D11.D11.2C$16.2D9.3D$27.D.D$.2A4.2A18.D$.2A4.2A4$6.2A
37.D$2.2A2.2A37.3D$.A.A42.D$.A18.3C$2A19.C15.2C$21.3C14.C$35.3C$35.C!

There's just the block to get rid of (which may be doable with the FNG of the eastern Herschel).
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simeks » January 16th, 2018, 6:48 pm

A for awesome wrote:A new bottom catalyst combination for the standard RF28B allows it to emit the RNE-19T84 glider:
x = 24, y = 35, rule = LifeHistory
10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.6B7.2A$.7B7.A$.9B2.BA.A$
11B.B2A$9BA3B$.7BABA2B$.7BABA2B$3.B2.3BA3B$7.6B$8.6B$8.7B.2B$8.5B2.3B
$8.2BC11B$8.2B2C9B2D$8.B2C11B2D$8.13B2D$9.12BD$10.11B$10.5B2.2B$10.3B
5.AB$12.2B3.A.A$11.B2A3.2A$12.A.A$10.A.A.5A$10.2A6.A$16.A$16.2A!

This works too:

x = 25, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.6B7.2A$.7B7.A$.9B2.BA.A$
11B.B2A$9BA3B$.7BABA2B$.7BABA2B$3.B2.3BA3B$7.6B$8.6B$8.7B.2B$8.5B2.3B
$8.2BC11B$8.2B2C9B2D$8.B2C11B2D$8.13B2D$9.12BD$10.13B.B$10.3B.B2.2B$
11.2B5.AB$10.2BAB3.A.A$11.A.A3.2A$12.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » January 18th, 2018, 6:37 pm

A Spartan BLx154H with a horrendous repeat time of 496, rescued from the early days of conduitry via the fancy modern ship/eater catalyst:
x = 55, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
45.B2A$43.2BA2BAB$21.A21.3B2A3B$21.3A17.12B$24.A15.14B$23.2A16.13B$
23.4B14.14B$25.B2A12.15B$24.BA.A12.14B$24.B2A13.13B$13.2A9.3B5.A7.B3D
4B.3B$12.B2AB7.3B6.3A5.2BD4B$13.3B6.5B8.A4.2B3D2B$14.2B3.B2.6B6.2A4.
6B$13.8B.7B5.4B.7B$11.18B7.10B$A10.19B3.B2.9B$3A7.21B.3B.9B$3.A5.22B.
14B$2.2A4.30B.7B$2.4B.38B$4.41B$3.2A41B$3.2AB.39B$4.B3.39B$11.27B.8B$
13.25B.9B$13.24B.11B$14.35B$16.34B$13.B.35B$11.39B$9.41B$9.40B$10.40B
$12.38B$16.34B$16.33B$16.33B$17.33B$17.6BC25B$18.6BC13B.9B$18.6B2C12B
2.6B$20.3B2C13B2.6B.2B$21.2BC13B4.7B2A$22.3B.5B9.6B.B2A$25.6B10.6B.B$
24.6B11.6B$23.8B10.5B$22.4B.2B2AB9.4B$21.4B4.2A8.5B$20.4B15.2A$19.4B
17.A$18.4B15.3A$17.4B16.A!

EDIT: Improvement to HFx158H:
x = 83, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
61.A4.2A8.A$17.A6.2A34.A.A2.A.A6.3A$16.A.A5.A.A.B.B28.A2.4A7.A$16.A.A
6.A6B27.A.A4.A6.2A$15.2A.2A7.5B26.2A.2A2.2A4.4B$13.A4.B8.6B23.A4.B3.
4B.3B$10.A2.4AB2AB5.6B21.A2.4AB2AB3.6B$10.3A3.A.2AB.2B.8B20.3A3.A.2AB
.7B.B$13.A4.14B24.A4.14B$12.2AB4.12B3.2B19.2AB4.12B3.2B$12.5B.20B17.
5B.20B$14.25B18.25B$12.28B15.28B$12.28B15.28B$11.28B15.28B$11.28B15.
28B$12.26BDB15.26BDB$11.25B3DB14.25B3DB$9.20B2.5BDBD13.20B2.5BDBD$7.
19B5.5BD13.19B5.5BD$7.2BD16B5.5B14.2BD16B5.5B$6.3BDBD4B.9B6.3B14.3BDB
D4B.9B6.3B$7.2B3D4B2.7B25.2B3D4B2.7B$6.5BD4B3.5B25.5BD4B3.5B$5.10B5.
4B24.10B5.4B$4.4B10.4B.B2A21.4B10.4B.B2A$4.3B11.2A3.BA.A20.3B11.2A3.B
A.A$2.4B13.A6.A18.4B13.A6.A$2.2A12.3A7.2A17.2A12.3A7.2A$3.A12.A29.A
12.A$3A40.3A$A42.A!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby googleplex » February 16th, 2018, 3:56 pm

I was wondering if this could be used to make a herschel duplicator:
x = 8, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$$$6bo$5b3o$4b2obo!


A B-heptomino becomes a herschel, and the herschel's FNG hits a block to make a pi, which eventually collides with the B's Block to replenish the original block.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 16th, 2018, 4:13 pm

googleplex wrote:I was wondering if this could be used to make a herschel duplicator:
x = 8, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$$$6bo$5b3o$4b2obo!


A B-heptomino becomes a herschel, and the herschel's FNG hits a block to make a pi, which eventually collides with the B's Block to replenish the original block.

Yup, that reaction is used in several completed conduits, e.g., BF187H:

x = 47, y = 70, rule = LifeHistory
3.4D2.5D3.D4.3D2.5D.D3.D.D$3.D3.D.D6.2D3.D3.D5.D.D3.D.D$3.D3.D.D7.D3.
D3.D4.D2.D3.D.4D$3.4D2.3D5.D4.3D4.D3.5D.D3.D$3.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D2.D4.D
3.D.D3.D$3.D3.D.D7.D3.D3.D.D5.D3.D.D3.D$3.4D2.D6.3D3.3D2.D5.D3.D.4D
10$6.4B$7.4B$8.4B$9.4B$10.4B$11.4B$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B10.2A$15.4B8.B2AB
6.A$16.4B7.3B6.A.A$17.4B7.B.B5.A.A$18.4B4.5B4.2A.3A$19.4B2.6B5.B4.A$
20.11B3.B2AB3A$18.12B.2B.B2A.A$16.19B$15.20B$16.18B$16.19B$18.17B$18.
18B$7.2A10.16B$6.B2AB8.19B2.2B$7.3B8.24BD$8.2B8.24BDBD$7.4B6.25B3DB$
7.5B2.30BD$5.38B$5.31B.B.2B$5.28B6.3B$4.30B6.A2B.2A$5.28B6.A.A2B.A$4.
31B4.2AB2.A$3.C32B7.A$.3BC31B3.5A.A$4B2C30B3.A4.A.A$3B2C31B5.A2.A.A$.
2BC31B5.2A3.A$.33B$3.31B$6.2B2A22B$8.2A2B5.16B$10.B6.17B$17.17B$18.
15B$19.12B$19.14B$17.2AB4.2B2.B.B2A.A$16.A.AB4.3B3.B2AB3A$16.A7.B2AB
4.B4.A$15.2A8.2A4.2A.3A$30.A2.2A$30.2A!

Here's a link to the Elementary Conduits thread where some attempt is made to keep an up-to-date collection of this kind of thing.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby wildmyron » April 26th, 2018, 3:32 am

The p63 gun contains this HFx77H with a p7 sparker to coax a glider out, without the repeat time penalty of HFx77Hb.
x = 38, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
8.A$8.3A12.B.3B.B$11.A10.13B$10.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD$10.8B3.2B2A9B3DB$12.
8B.13BDBD$12.22BD$11.15B.2B2.2B$9.17B$7.18B$7.2BC15B$6.3BCBC12B$7.2B
3C13B$6.5BC14B$5.10B.10B$4.4B11.7B$4.3B12.8B$2.4B14.8B$2.2A16.3B2.3BD
$3.A15.B6.DBD$3A8.A6.3B6.2D$A2.3A3.3A2.A3.3B$2.A2.A2.A3.3A2.5A$3.A.A.
A.2A4.3A.A.3A$3A.A2.A.A.4A3.BA4.A$A3.A.2A.A.A3.4A.2A.2A$4.A.A.BA.BABA
BA.A.A$3.2A.3ABA2BA2.A.A.A$4.A.A6.4A.2A$4.A2.6A4.A$3.2A4.A2.A2.A.A$
15.2A!

The same glider can be coaxed out with a p3 sparker:
x = 38, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
8.A$8.3A12.B.3B.B$11.A10.13B$10.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD$10.8B3.2B2A9B3DB$12.
8B.13BDBD$12.22BD$11.15B.2B2.2B$9.17B$7.18B$7.2BC15B$6.3BCBC12B$7.2B
3C13B$6.5BC14B$5.10B.10B$4.4B11.7B$4.3B12.8B$2.4B13.9B$2.2A15.4B2.3BD
$3.A7.A6.ABA5.DBD$3A8.3A3.4BA5.2D$A13.A.2A.A.2BA$13.A.3B2.2ABAB$12.B
2AB.B3A3.BA$13.2A.A2B.2ABAB.A$12.3A.AB.A.B.A.2A$13.B4.A2.A.2A$19.2A.A
.B.3A$17.A.A2.A.A.A2.A$17.2A2.2A.2A2.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » April 26th, 2018, 6:02 am

wildmyron wrote:The p63 gun contains this HFx77H with a p7 sparker to coax a glider out, without the repeat time penalty of HFx77Hb.... The same glider can be coaxed out with a p3 sparker

This is used in the p57 gun, although the sparker is larger to accommodate the twit eater.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby wildmyron » April 26th, 2018, 11:25 am

Sokwe wrote:
wildmyron wrote:The p63 gun contains this HFx77H with a p7 sparker to coax a glider out, without the repeat time penalty of HFx77Hb.... The same glider can be coaxed out with a p3 sparker

This is used in the p57 gun, although the sparker is larger to accommodate the twit eater.

Thank you for reminding me of this. I remember spending quite some time searching for a pair of sparkers to complete one of those gun ideas in that thread - the p4 for the p52 gun idea, I think. No luck with that search and obviously I'd forgotten about the rest of the discussion.

Edit: Actually, it was this post that inspired the p52 search I spent time on, but I remember reading the p61 gun thread as well.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Goldtiger997 » May 5th, 2018, 10:12 pm

I've been trying to find a Dove-to-X, as there does not seem to be any discovered yet.

Using Bellman (and MikeP's TL eater), I was able to find this Dove-to-large-spark:

x = 24, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
20.2A$18.A2.A$10.C7.3A$8.C.2C11.A$11.2C7.4A$11.C7.A$20.2A$21.A$20.A$
20.2A4$16.2A$2.2A12.A$.A.A8.2A3.3A$.A5.2A4.A5.A$2A5.2A3.A$11.A$7.5A.A
$7.A4.A.A$9.A2.A.A$8.2A3.A! [[ ZOOM 8 ]]


Is there any way to turn this into a working Dove-to-X?

Here's my Bellman input file:

#S max-active 8
#S repair-interval 6
#S stable-interval 15
#S max-live 200
#S last-encounter 15
#S first-encounter 0
#P 0 0
....................
....................
.........???????????
...@.....???????????
..@.@....???????????
..@..@@..???????????
...@..@..???????????
....@@@..???????????
.........???????????
.........???????????
.........???????????
.........???????????
.........???????????
....................
....................
....................


This is probably my first successful use of Bellman, so any advice on how I could have made the search better would be appreciated.

Lastly here are two useless but vaguely interesting results the search also found:

x = 19, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
2.C$.C.C$.C2.2C5.2A$2.C2.C5.2A$3.3C2$12.2A$12.A.A.2A$10.A.A.2A.A$3.3D
4.2A11$2.C11.2A$.C.C11.A$.C2.2C9.A.2A$.DCD.C6.2A.2A.A$3.3C7.A$D.2D9.A
$2D8.2A.2A$11.A$9.A.A$9.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Jormungant » May 6th, 2018, 6:30 am

Nothing new here, but I was wondering why the following is not in the h-to-g collection:

x = 43, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
2$24.A$24.3A$27.A.D$26.2A3D$26.B2D2BD$26.6B$26.6B$25.6B$26.5B$19.A6.
5B$19.3A4.5B4.B$10.A11.A2.6B5.B$10.3A8.2A3.5B4.2BA$13.A7.10B4.BA.A$
12.2A3.B5.7BD5.BA$12.8B2.7B3D3B$14.15BD4B$14.20B$13.19B.B2A$11.21B.BA
.A$5.B2.25B3.A$5.6BC14B4.4B2.2A$5.6BCBC4B.6B7.2A$5.6B3C4B2.B.5B5.A$5.
8BC4B7.2A6.3A$5.12B8.A9.A$6.4B16.3A$5.6B17.A$4.4B$4.2AB$5.A$2.3A$2.A!


This only work due to a awkwardly tight eater placement, since it is not in dvgrn set of adjustments, I guess it was un-noticed...?

Also... maybe there is something of interest here?

x = 169, y = 51, rule = LifeHistory
8$92.2C$28.2A6.3B.2B50.2C56.2C$27.BA.AB2.9B50.2B54.B2CB$27.2B2A11B.4B
36.2A6.3B.2B53.2B$25.2AB.11B.7B34.BA.AB2.9B42.2A6.3B.2B$24.A.AB4.5BD
11B33.2B2A11B.4B37.BA.AB2.9B$24.A5.7B2D10B31.2AB.11B.7B36.2B2A11B.4B$
23.2A4.7B2D4B37.A.AB4.5BD11B33.2AB.11B.7B$28.2A4BD7B37.A5.7B2D10B32.A
.AB4.5BD11B$28.2A3B3D6B36.2A4.7B2D4B39.A5.7B2D10B$29.3B2D2BD5B41.2A4B
D7B38.2A4.7B2D4B$30.7B.4B41.2A3B3D6B43.2A4BD7B$31.6B2.3B42.3B2D2BD5B
43.2A3B3D6B$30.8B2.2B43.7B.4B44.3B2D2BD5B$31.11B44.6B2.3B45.7B.4B$24.
A6.11B4.2B37.8B2.2B46.6B2.3B$24.3A4.10B45.11B45.8B2.2B$15.A11.A2.10B.
B37.A6.11B4.2B40.11B$15.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA36.3A4.10B40.A6.11B4.2B$18.A7.
15BA.A26.A11.A2.10B.B39.3A4.10B$17.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA27.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA
29.A11.A2.10B.B$17.8B2.7B3D3B33.A7.15BA.A28.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA$19.15BD4B
33.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA32.A7.15BA.A$19.20B33.8B2.7B3D3B34.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA$
18.19B.B2A33.15BD4B35.8B2.7B3D3B$16.21B.BA.A32.20B37.15BD4B$10.B2.25B
3.A31.19B.B2A35.20B$10.6BC14B4.4B2.2A28.21B.BA.A33.19B.B2A$10.6BCBC4B
.6B7.2A26.B2.25B3.A31.21B.BA.A$10.6B3C4B2.B.5B5.A27.6BC14B4.4B2.2A24.
B2.25B3.A$10.8BC4B7.2A6.3A24.6BCBC4B.6B7.2A28.6BC14B4.4B2.2A$10.12B8.
A9.A24.6B3C4B2.B.5B5.A29.6BCBC4B.6B7.2A$11.4B16.3A31.8BC4B7.2A6.3A26.
6B3C4B2.B.5B5.A$11.5B17.A31.12B8.A9.A26.7B.C4B7.2A6.3A$9.4B53.4B16.3A
33.12B8.A9.A$9.2A55.5B17.A34.4B16.3A$10.A53.4B55.5B17.A$7.3A54.2A55.
4B$7.A57.A55.2A$62.3A57.A$62.A56.3A$119.A!


h-to-h" ?
x = 49, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
$31.2C$32.C$31.C$31.2C$32.B7.B.B$23.2A6.4B4.2B.2B$22.BA.AB2.7B.9B2D$
22.2B2A20BDBD$20.2AB.11B.12BD$19.A.AB4.5BD11B2DB2D$19.A5.7B2D10B3D$
18.2A4.7B2D12B$23.2A4BD14B$23.2A3B3D13B$24.3B2D2BD10B$25.7B.9B$26.6B
2.8B$25.8B2.5B.B2C$26.14B.BC.C$19.A6.11B4.2B.C$19.3A4.10B3.B4.2C$10.A
11.A2.10B.B$10.3A8.2A3.8B.2BA$13.A7.15BA.A$12.2A3.B5.7BD4B.BA$12.8B2.
7B3D3B$14.15BD4B$14.20B$13.19B.B2A$11.21B.BA.A$5.B2.25B3.A$5.6BC14B4.
4B2.2A$5.6BCBC4B.6B7.2A$5.6B3C4B2.B.5B5.A$5.8BC4B7.2A6.3A$5.12B8.A9.A
$6.4B16.3A$6.5B17.A$4.4B$4.2A$5.A$2.3A$2.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » May 6th, 2018, 10:02 am

Jormungant wrote:Nothing new here, but I was wondering why the following is not in the h-to-g collection...

It's in the "real" H-to-G collection as NE9T31, so you probably mean that it's not in calcyman's latest Elementary Conduits Collection. That's certainly true... I could try to weasel out on a technicality, and say that this particular H-to-G is really an H-to-R (HLx69R) plus an R-to-B (RF28Bd), plus an eater to stop the glider and another one to stop the B-heptomino. So the H-to-G is in there, but it's composite and not elementary.

However, lots of other not-quite-elementary stuff has crept into the collection now, like the semi-cenarks, so I'm thinking of bringing in a lot more of the H-to-Gs -- maybe color them yellow if they're composite.

As it happens, I've just been working on updating calcyman's ECC so that everything is properly labeled again and works with the conduit compiler script. It would be a shame to have the stamp collection turn back into a big messy hand-updated pattern file again. That RLE-only version of the ECC has I think eighteen of the more recently discovered H-to-Gs, but it's probably still missing some from several years ago when the H-to-G collection was getting updated but the ECC wasn't getting updated to match.

Jormungant wrote:Also... maybe there is something of interest here?

It seems like there are probably successful stabilizations out there -- I almost got a Herschel-to-two-bookends converter, trying things by hand. So this would be a good candidate for a catfind or ptbsearch search. Probably the resulting H-to-G or Herschel conduit or whatever will turn out to be on the larger side, but if we just keep collecting we'll eventually have just the right H-to-G for every occasion.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Jormungant » May 6th, 2018, 11:33 am

dvgrn wrote:I could try to weasel out on a technicality, and say that this particular H-to-G is really an H-to-R (HLx69R) plus an R-to-B (RF28Bd), plus an eater to stop the glider and another one to stop the B-heptomino. So the H-to-G is in there, but it's composite and not elementary.


I agree that this argument is sound, but I do not know if there is a clear definition of what an "elementary" conduit is. The H-to-R is a H-to-{R+G} actually, killing the G is always optional, but now it is mandatory. So, it is the same? An alternative would be to call this a H-to-B elementary circuit, maybe? Conduit pairs can or cannot be linked, these 2 can if a eater is added only. I suppose that is also possible for other combinations of elemental circuits, but the particularity here is that there is only 1 legal position for the eater.

I do not plan on getting credit for this, but I was amazed I did not come across this one earlier, it has a nice repeat time and all. Would be a shame to "rediscover" it several times.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » May 6th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Jormungant wrote:Would be a shame to "rediscover" it several times.

Yes, I think over time I'll probably import a lot more of the H-to-G collection into the Elementary Conduits Collection, including this one. Not sure how many more are missing from one collection or the other. The H-to-G collection is still just a low-tech stamp-collection pattern file, so it's not searchable the way the ECC is.

The other useful thing would be to collect all the H-to-2G, H-to-3G, etc. separately, and classify them all into the sixteen different types Oo/Oe/Eo/EE and 0 through 3. One especially good use for those is to come up with the best possible toolkit of splitters for making Goldtiger997-style synchronized shotguns. If there are sixteen different types of small G-to-2Gs that all send one glider forward and one at 90 degrees, then it can always be arranged that the sideways glider connects directly to the next shotgun edge shooter with just Snarks, no other big adjusters needed.

This sorting job has needed doing for several years now, but I keep hoping that someone else will volunteer to do it.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » May 8th, 2018, 2:03 pm

Goldtiger997 wrote:I've been trying to find a Dove-to-X, as there does not seem to be any discovered yet.

Using Bellman (and MikeP's TL eater), I was able to find this Dove-to-large-spark:

x = 24, y = 23, rule = LifeHistory
20.2A$18.A2.A$10.C7.3A$8.C.2C11.A$11.2C7.4A$11.C7.A$20.2A$21.A$20.A$
20.2A4$16.2A$2.2A12.A$.A.A8.2A3.3A$.A5.2A4.A5.A$2A5.2A3.A$11.A$7.5A.A
$7.A4.A.A$9.A2.A.A$8.2A3.A! [[ ZOOM 8 ]]


Is there any way to turn this into a working Dove-to-X?


Keep in mind that this is currently the only known way to get to a dove:
x = 44, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
25.A$17.2A5.A.A$18.A4.2BAB$18.A.AB2.2B$19.2AB.B.6B$21.11B9.B$12.A9.
10B7.5B$11.A.A7.13B3.3B3DB$11.A.A5.20BD2BDB$9.3A.2A4.19BD2BD2B$8.A4.B
5.20B2D3B$9.3AB2AB3.25B$11.A.2A28B$15.28B$15.7B3D19B$15.7BDBD19B$16.
6BD2BD3B6.8B$15.9B2D3B9.2B$15.15B$16.13B$16.12B$B16.10B$2B18.10B$3B
17.11B3.B$4B13.14B2.3B$.4B11.20B$2.4B8.23B.B$3.4B6.25B2A$4.4B5.25B2A$
5.4B3.27B$6.4B.28B$7.27B2.B$7.31B$7.32B$5.34B$5.34B$5.32B.B2A$5.30B3.
BA.A$6.28B7.A$6.4B3D18B10.2A$8.4BD17B$8.2B3D14B$9.18B$8.18B$7.17B$8.
14B$9.13B$9.7B.5B$9.2A7.3B$10.A6.2A$7.3A7.A$7.A7.A.A$15.2A!

This massively reduces the utility of that D->large spark, as the spark ends up going back into the area covered by the C->D.

What could help is cleaning up this partial H->D, to provide another avenue for entry:
x = 45, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
28.3D$17.B9.D2BDB$15.4B7.D2BD2B$14.6B6.B2D4B$13.10B3.6B$11.21B$11.5B
3D14B$4.B.28B$3.31B$.35B.2B$19B2D17B2A.2A$18BD2BD16B2A.A2.A$.10B3D5B
2D19B.A.2A$3.3B.B.27B.2B2.A$10.18B2.2B.B4.B.2A$11.10B.3B12.A.A2.2A$
11.11B15.2A2.A2.A$10.11B21.2A$10.11B$10.11B$10.B3C4B2.B2A$10.2BC4B3.B
A.A$10.2B3C2B6.A$10.6B7.2A$9.7B$8.4B.B$7.4B$7.3B$5.2AB$4.A.AB$4.A$3.
2A!


However, there is a slight chance that a small D->H could be made from this, if the transparent block could be restored:
x = 13, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2b3o6b2o$bo2bo6b2o$o2bo$b2o!

(That block is one southeast of the B-heptomino's usual block placement, and wouldn't be there if not for a two-bit diagonal spark.)
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