The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
chris_c
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by chris_c » May 25th, 2015, 2:13 pm

I updated the attachments in my previous post. The Conduit Collection has the fixed B->G as pointed out by Sokwe and I updated the script based on the suggestions of dvgrn:
dvgrn wrote: if there's a name listed in a #N comment at the top of the RLE, the script could generate a label.
Done.
dvgrn wrote: I think there's a major limitation / minor irritation [delete whichever is inapplicable] with the way the script currently handles H-to-Gs. You'd have to change a lot of the index numbers if you want to add new H-to-Gs and keep them in sorted order.
The script now tolerates more underscores in the filename. It should work well if you name the files like h_g_nw_32_-4.rle.
dvgrn wrote: Speaking of which, is there a good way to keep multiple useful variants of an H-to-G near each other in the current system? For example, the old canonical form of h_g_01 has half as many still lifes, in completely different places
It should be fine to add a variant letter after the number. e.g. h_b_01a.rle and h_b_01b.rle for the two H->B variants that can be part of an F117 conduit.

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Kazyan
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » May 25th, 2015, 2:59 pm

Dependent H->2G

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 48, rule = B3/S23
4bo$3bobo$3bobo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o$3bob2o5$5b2o$5b2o4$3b2o$3b2o4$35b2o$
27b2o2b2ob3o$27b2ob3ob2o$31b2ob3o$34b2o19$16b2o$16bo$17b3o$19bo!
EDIT: A couple of H->Pi conduits that prevent the FNG, but they're still, uh, difficult.

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
8b3o17b3o$10bo19bo$9b3o17b3o$b2o23bo$b2o22bobo$25bobo$26bo2$2o2b2o18bo
$o4bo17bobo$b4o18b2o2$b4o$o4bo$2o2b2o!
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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 25th, 2015, 4:52 pm

Kazyan wrote:Dependent H->2G...
I definitely have to get a better version of the H-to-G identifier script published, along with a text list of output lanes and timings, just to make it easier to compare against known converters. This one is a slight non-Spartan variation on the Lx200 dependent conduit -- HtoG09SEpath30 in the old collection:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory:P760,840
18.B$17.2AB.2B$17.2A5B$18.7B$18.8B$19.7B$19.8B$19.9B$19.9B$19.9B$19.
9B$18.11B$18.11B$18.12B$12.B4.14B$11.3B3.10B.4B$9.6B2.16B$3.4B2.7B.
17B$.29B.4B$B2ABD25B2.4B$3ABCAD23B3.4B$B2AB3CB2A21B3.4B$3AB2ADB2A21B
4.4B$2A30B4.4B$5.26B6.4B$7.B2.20B8.3B$9.20B.B.B6.2B$8.24B2A6.B$7.25B
2A$6.4B.5B2.12B.2B$5.4B2.4B3.13B$4.4B12.11B.B$4.3B13.12B2A$4.2B14.10B
.B2A$4.B13.2AB.6B4.B$17.A.AB.4B$17.A5.5B$16.2A8.2A$26.A$27.3A$29.A!
[[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ]]

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Kazyan
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » May 26th, 2015, 2:02 am

D'oh.

I recall seeing a catalyst like this somewhere on the forum before--Simkin, I think?--but the transparent block here is probably new. Non-Spartan B->G. It happens to be an edge-shooter.

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
13bob2o3b2o$13b3o4b2o$14bo5$3bo$3b3o$6bo$5bo$2o3b2o$o2b2o$b2o2b2o$3bob
o$3bo2bo$4b2o!
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Kazyan
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » May 26th, 2015, 6:56 pm

H-to-B using one of Bellman's favorite catalysts:

Code: Select all

x = 12, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$3bo4b3o$2b2o6bo$9b3o6$6bo$2obobobo$ob2ob2obo$8bo$8b2o!
EDIT: This one's odd. The Herschel reaches one of its later phases of evolution, but in a different place than normal, implying that the back half of various H-to-X conduits can be attached.

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o2b2o$6b2o9$6bo$5bobo$5bobo$6bo5$15b3o$15bo$2b2o10b3o$bo
bo$bo$2o3$19bo$18bobobo$17bob2ob3o$17bo7bo$16b2o6b2o!
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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 26th, 2015, 10:54 pm

Kazyan wrote:I recall seeing a catalyst like this somewhere on the forum before--Simkin, I think?--but the transparent block here is probably new. Non-Spartan B->G. It happens to be an edge-shooter.
Very nice! That's the first B-to-G with that northeast output direction at all, I think, let alone on that lane -- and edge-shooters are always nice to have. Looks like it connects up nicely with lots of different output B's, too.

Oddly enough, when you combine it with the standard H-to-B, its output glider is on the same lane as another known edge-shooter, SE38 -- but it's definitely a different timing. Ty0=168 instead of Ty0=215, and it's much less bulky. I'll be really surprised if it doesn't start setting new records in the gun collection (as soon as scote's contributions have been sorted out and it's possible to tell what the current records are!)

EDIT It's SE39T12 versus the known SE39T59, actually, using the new SE lane numbering convention...

It would be nice to rework the H-to-G recognizer script so that it can handle other input signals as well, but I'm not sure when I'll actually get around to that, though. Recognizing other conduit types -- H-to-H, R-to-B, etc. -- would need a much more complex script; it would have to check every generation for all possible output patterns, and be able to deal with dying sparks and so forth. Guess I'll stick with H-to-G for the moment.

The latest unofficial recognizer script is posted on the H-to-G thread now. I took chris_c's suggestions about using mirror-image canonical glider phases instead of rotationally symmetric ones, and changed the "zero line" from the X axis to the Y axis, so the reported T values are different.

I'd like to get to an "official" version soon, so we can start using the script to find permanent names for all the different H-to-Gs that have been showing up. I'm suggesting a minor change to the lane numbering system, and then I think we should be good to go.

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praosylen
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by praosylen » May 27th, 2015, 10:30 am

A new H-to-B:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 35, rule = LifeHistory
12.C$12.3C$15.C$14.2C$14.5B$16.3B$15.5B$14.6B$12.9B$11.2D7B5.2C$10.2D
8B5.C$11.2D7B2.BC.C$11.BD8B.B2C$11.12B$12.11B$.2C3.C3.13B$.C3.C.C2.2C
.9B$2.C3.2C3.C3.8B$3.C4.3C3.8B$.C.4C.C5.7B$C.C4.C5.11B$C.C2.C8.11B$.C
3.2C7.11B$14.11B$12.2CB2.4B3CB$11.C.CB3.4BC2B$11.C6.2B3C2B$10.2C7.6B$
19.7B$21.B.4B$24.4B$25.4B$26.4B$27.2B$28.B!
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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 27th, 2015, 11:32 am

A for awesome wrote:A new H-to-B...
That one's not new, but the elementary conduits collection has it catalogued incorrectly as part of this H-to-H:

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 54, rule = LifeHistory
23.2A$24.A14.2A$24.A.AB10.B2AB8.2A$25.2AB.2B7.4B7.B2A2B$27.5B6.4B8.4B
$21.2A4.7B4.5B5.6B5.2A$21.A5.7B3.7B.8B.2B2.B2AB$22.3A2.7B.22B2.2B$24.
A35B$26.36B$27.32B2A2B$27.32B2A3B$18.2A3.2A.B.35B$18.A.A.A.A38B$20.A.
A.B.28B3.7B$19.2A.2A23B3.B7.6B$23.B.21B3.3B5.6B$25.20B3.B2AB6.5B$26.
13B.4B5.2A7.6B$27.11B.4B15.6B$24.18B16.5B$23.18B17.2B3D$14.2A7.17B19.
BDB$13.A2.A2.2A2.16B20.3D$13.3A2.A.A2.8B.6B22.B$16.2A.B3.7B3.4B$13.2A
.A2.2B2.7B2.4B$13.A2.A.BA2B.6B2.4B$14.3A.A.A8B.4B$18.2A.12B$16.2A5.9B
$17.A4.9B$8.A8.A.AB2.2BD4B$8.3A7.2AB.2B3D2B$11.A8.3B2DBDB$10.2A3.B3.
9B$10.8B.10B.B$12.20B$12.20B.2B$11.23B2A$9.23B.B2A$7.23B4.B$7.2BC14B
3.B$6.3BCBC4B.6B$7.2B3C4B2.B.5B$6.5BC4B7.2A$5.10B8.A$4.4B16.3A$3.4B
19.A$2.4B$2.2A$3.A$3A$A!
#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ZOOM 9 HEIGHT 500 ]]
I think this is still the only way to make use of that B output, but it should probably be moved into the H-to-B section anyway, maybe this new variant as well as the old one with a block in place of the eater.

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praosylen
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by praosylen » May 27th, 2015, 11:53 am

dvgrn wrote:
A for awesome wrote:A new H-to-B...
That one's not new, but the elementary conduits collection has it catalogued incorrectly as part of this H-to-H:

Code: Select all

rle
Perhaps the weld should also be updated, as it has an unnecessarily large population.
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Extrementhusiast
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Extrementhusiast » May 27th, 2015, 7:38 pm

This H-to-B is definitely not new; I found a p6 version that cleans up the B's block years ago.

Here's a different way to get an output signal:

Code: Select all

x = 72, y = 66, rule = LifeHistory
32.2A$33.A14.2A$33.A.A12.2A9.2A$34.2A23.2A2$30.2A36.2A$30.A37.2A$31.
3A$33.A2$68.2A$68.2A$27.2A3.2A$27.A.A.A.A$29.A.A$28.2A.2A2$58.2A$58.
2A3$69.3D$69.D$68.3D15$4.A$4.3A$7.A$6.2A3$39.2A$39.A$35.A4.3A$2A12.2D
18.A.A5.A$.A13.2D17.2A$.A.A10.2D$2.2A10.D2$19.2A13.2A$19.2A13.A$15.2A
15.A.A$15.A16.2A$16.3A$18.A9.2A$27.A.A$28.A3$3.3C7.2A$4.C8.A.A$4.3C8.
A$15.2A!
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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 29th, 2015, 1:33 am

This thread is getting to be quite a gold mine for H-to-Gs. I've gotten through the fifth page, and added quite a few new H-to-Gs. The newer stamp collection is posted in the usual place. Will get back to it again sometime.

While I'm reviewing old postings -- looks like the current pi_c_01.rle in the Conduit Compiler should probably be replaced with the following:

Code: Select all

#N PiT328C
x = 40, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
19.3D$19.DBD$19.D2BD$19.2B2D$17.7B$16.9B$17.7B$18.6B$17.10B$17.11B3.B
$14.14B2.3B$13.20B$2A9.23B.B$.A8.25B2A$.A.AB5.25B2A$2.2AB4.27B$4.3B.
28B$4.27B2.B$4.31B$4.32B$2.34B$2.34B$2.32B.B2A$2.30B3.BA.A$3.28B7.A$
3.4B3D18B10.2A$5.4BD17B$5.2B3D14B$6.18B$5.18B$4.17B$5.14B$6.13B$6.7B.
5B$6.2A7.3B$7.A6.2A$4.3A7.A$4.A7.A.A$12.2A!

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simsim314
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » May 29th, 2015, 4:03 am

Almost spartan H->B:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
16.2BCB$12.CB.2BCBC$11.C.C2BC2BC.3B$11.2C.3B2C6B2.B$15.4B.5B.3B$19.
10B$19.12B$18.13B$9.2C6.14B$8.B2CB4.15B$9.2B5.15B$8.2B3.2B.14B$7.BC2B
.16B2D$7.C.C19B2D$8.C.18B2D$5.3C3.17BD$5.C5.17B$9.17B$7.19B$7.2BC16B$
6.3BCBC4B.10B$7.2B3C4B.11B$6.5BC4B2.10B$5.10B4.8B$4.4B11.6B$3.4B12.6B
$2.4B14.4B$2.2A14.5B$3.A14.2C$3A16.C$A15.3C$16.C!
EDIT New H->G

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
3$44.B$43.2B$42.3B$41.4B$25.2C13.4B$26.C12.4B$25.C12.4B$25.2C2.2C6.4B
$28.C.C5.4B$23.4C.C6.4B$23.C2.C.2C4.4B$26.5B2.4B$27.9B$27.8B$26.8B$
15.2C9.7B$16.C10.6B4.2C$16.C.CB7.6B4.C$17.2CB.3B3.6B.BC.C$19.14B.B2C$
19.16B$20.14B$19.16B$17.18B$15.19B$15.2BC16B$14.3BCBC4B.9B$15.2B3C4B
2.7B$14.5BC4B2.7B$13.10B4.6B$12.4B10.7B$12.3B12.6B$10.4B13.7B$10.2C
15.6B$11.C14.7B$8.3C15.7B$8.C17.2C.3B$27.C$24.3C$24.C!

chris_c
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by chris_c » May 29th, 2015, 8:56 am

Kazyan wrote:D'oh.

I recall seeing a catalyst like this somewhere on the forum before--Simkin, I think?--but the transparent block here is probably new. Non-Spartan B->G. It happens to be an edge-shooter.

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
13bob2o3b2o$13b3o4b2o$14bo5$3bo$3b3o$6bo$5bo$2o3b2o$o2b2o$b2o2b2o$3bob
o$3bo2bo$4b2o!
Cool. I have been waiting for something like this to show up. To my knowledge this is the first edge shooter that leaves no sparks beyond the output glider lane. It could be used to make a near perfect highway robber like so:

Code: Select all

x = 93, y = 51, rule = LifeHistory
81.2C$80.2C$52.2D3.D19.2A2.2C$51.D2.D.D.D18.2A3.C$52.2D3.2D5$80.2A$
81.A$80.A$80.2A6$45.2A$44.A2.A29.3C$45.A.A29.C$44.2A2.2A28.C$46.2A2.A
$44.2A3.2A$45.A$44.A$45.3A$47.A5$36.C$29.2A4.3C$29.2A3.2C.C$13.2A$14.
2A$13.A$10.A$10.2A$9.A.A2$6.2A$7.2A81.3C$6.A83.C$91.C3$2D$.2D$D!
The highway robber has no effect at all on any gliders beyond the capture lane and it can capture a glider that is sandwiched by 14 ticks between two other gliders. Unfortunately some of the late sparks from the B->G will interfere with gliders that are farther back down the lane (for example, the glider shown in red). With a few syringes and dvgrn's H->G collection it shouldn't be too difficult to work out the rest of the details.

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dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 29th, 2015, 9:17 am

simsim314 wrote:Almost spartan H->B...
Nice one! It doesn't seem to connect to all that many B-to-Xes, but at least one works very nicely, giving among other things a new L228 with reasonably quick recovery time, under 100 ticks:

Code: Select all

#C L228 = HF122B + BLx19R + RF28B + BFx59H
#C Recovery time is 99 ticks.
x = 41, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory
31.B$30.3D$30.BDB$29.3D2B$29.5B$28.6B$28.6B$29.5B$29.6B$28.6B$28.7B$
29.6B$29.6B$29.6B$28.8B$27.8B$27.9B$27.9B$26.10B$26.3B2A5B$20.2A3.4B
2A5B$21.A3.11B$21.A.A7BD4B$22.2A2.4B3DB$27.2B2D2BD4.2A$16.2BAB8.6B4.A
$12.AB.2BABA8.6B.BA.A$11.A.A2BA2BA.3B3.7B.B2A$11.2A.3B2A6B2.9B$15.4B.
5B.9B$19.16B$19.15B4.B$18.16B.B.2BA$9.2A6.21BA.A$8.B2AB4.16BD4B.BA$9.
2B5.15B3D3B$8.2B3.2B.12BD2BD5B$7.BA2B.17BD7B$7.A.A19B2D6B$8.A.18B2D6B
$5.3A3.17BD7B$5.A5.22B.3B$9.17B2.B.B3.B2A$7.19B2.B2AB2.BA.A$7.2BA16B
3.2A4.B2A$6.3BABA4B.10B6.4B$7.2B3A4B.11B5.2A$6.5BA4B2.10B6.A$5.10B4.
8B4.3A$4.4B11.6B6.A$3.4B12.6B$2.4B14.4B$2.2A14.5B$3.A14.2A$3A16.A$A
15.3A$16.A!
#C [[ ZOOM 7 Y -2 STOP 228 ]]
simsim314 wrote:EDIT New H->G...
The script gives this a label of NE1T22, so it gets an entry in a previously empty row of the H-to-G table. Also nice! This is the lowest NE lane by far, so it seems likely it will tighten up something in the gun collection. The current set of NE lanes is

1, 8, 9, 10, 16, 18, 19, 23, 25, 26, 35, 36, 44, 52

-- plus probably a few more hiding in pages 6-16 of this thread, that I haven't gotten back to collect yet, and any number of composite ones like Fx77+(various SE H-to-Gs.)

If anyone remembers any H-to-Gs posted in other threads such as Accidental Discoveries, links would be appreciated.

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praosylen
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by praosylen » May 29th, 2015, 10:18 am

A BG-to-G:

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
.3D$.D3B$2.D3B$3.4B$4.4B$4.4B$3.6B5.2C$2.7B5.C$2.8B.BC.C$2.8B.B2C$3.
9B$2.10B$3.8B$3.8B$3.10B$.13B$14B$14B$.15B$5.11B$3.4BC9B$3.3BCBC8B$.
4BC2BC9B$5B3C9B$17B$.15B$2.12B$4.12B$4.7B3.2C$4.8B2.C$4.8B3.3C$5.6B6.
C$5.6B$7.BC2.C$7.B4C$5.C$5.5C$9.C$7.C$7.2C!
It unfortunately doesn't connect with any of the conduits in the collection.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 29th, 2015, 10:54 am

chris_c wrote:To my knowledge this is the first edge shooter that leaves no sparks beyond the output glider lane. It could be used to make a near perfect highway robber like so...
The highway robber has no effect at all on any gliders beyond the capture lane and it can capture a glider that is sandwiched by 14 ticks between two other gliders. Unfortunately some of the late sparks from the B->G will interfere with gliders that are farther back down the lane (for example, the glider shown in red).
A glider on that insertion lane is close enough to interact with a few possible gliders on the highway edge, though. Have you considered building the beehive directly instead of with a collision? Looks like it saves one synchronized signal:

Code: Select all

#C near-perfect highway robber with three synchronized signals
#C Yellow gliders are the last "safe" positions for passing gliders on
#C   the edge of the highway, during reconstruction of the bait.
x = 216, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
94.2C108.2C$93.2C108.2C$65.2D3.D19.2A2.2C79.2D3.D19.2A2.2C$64.D2.D.D.
D18.2A3.C78.D2.D.D.D18.2A3.C$65.2D3.2D103.2D3.2D5$93.2A108.2A$94.A
109.A$93.A109.A$93.2A108.2A$97.2A108.2A$97.2A108.2A3$103.2A108.2A$54.
2A47.2A59.2A47.2A$53.A.A34.3C6.2A62.A.A34.3C6.2A$53.A36.C8.2A62.A36.C
8.2A$52.2A37.C70.2A37.C$78.2A108.2A$78.2A108.2A$104.2A108.2A$104.2A
108.2A3$54.2A108.2A$54.2A108.2A$80.2A108.2A$80.A.A107.A.A$82.A7.3A99.
A7.3A$54.2A26.2A7.A72.2A26.2A7.A$54.2A35.3A70.2A35.3A$68.2A108.2A$68.
A.A107.A.A$70.A109.A$60.2A8.2A98.2A8.2A$61.A109.A$58.3A23.2A82.3A23.
2A$58.A24.A.A82.A24.A.A$83.A109.A$82.2A108.2A6$12.E109.E$12.2E108.2E$
11.E.E107.E.E$8.A$8.2A$7.A.A107.2A$118.2A$5.A111.A$5.2A$4.A.A$.A$.2A$
A.A!
There's a very short forbidden zone, just 17 ticks it looks like, where a glider can't be passing on the edge of the highway while the beehive is being reconstructed. This particular converter has only a couple of cells that get too close to the highway, and even if they weren't there, I think most of the forbidden zone would still exist -- the glider would end up hitting a pre-beehive instead of the completed beehive.

-- Yikes, this thing is going to be a huge improvement on the competition. Congratulations slightly in advance! Looks like it's even possible to make a Spartan version without too much trouble.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by chris_c » May 29th, 2015, 11:11 am

dvgrn wrote:Have you considered building the beehive directly instead of with a collision? Looks like it saves one synchronized signal.
Wow. I looked for direct H->beehive and H->boat but didn't find anything suitable. I definitely didn't expect to see a direct H->beehive that would allow the beehive to be constructed after the boat. The pattern you posted looks really good!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 29th, 2015, 12:38 pm

chris_c wrote:Wow. I looked for direct H->beehive and H->boat but didn't find anything suitable.
Yes, I looked for H-to-boat first, but the known ones are the wrong orientation.

On the other hand, nobody has really been collecting H-to-edge-of-envelope-junk converters. That's probably a job for yet another thread, "Herschel to Stable Edgy X" or some such. Between CatForce and catgl and a script or two to automate the collection process, it should be possible to come up with thousands of H-to-junk converters.

Run a search long enough and it's quite possible that a workable H-to-boat might show up. That would get rid of the last synchronization problem in this circuit, and then a syringe-assisted version would be really easy to complete.

Of course, once we have thousands of edgy junk-makers, we can test the junk for its ability to rob highways, too -- might end up with a constellation that has the same function as the beehive+boat, but it can be built with just one Herschel input. (Would only have to wade through a few dozen almost-working converters first, probably, where the output signal hits part of the repair conduit.)
chris_c wrote:I definitely didn't expect to see a direct H->beehive that would allow the beehive to be constructed after the boat.
Yes, that old Lx200-based beehive builder is incredibly useful. It would be nice to find more stable edgy junk-makers with large offsets like that. Thanks to the BG reaction, we have pretty good circuits for block placement, but there's no good organized collection for other handy still lifes -- just my own rather disorganized files from about a decade ago now.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » May 29th, 2015, 1:27 pm

Very strange, can't find it in the conduit collection nor in dvrgn's latest H->G collection (and it's 5 eaters):

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 63, rule = LifeHistory
12$53.C$51.3C$50.C$50.2C$33.2A12.5B$34.A11.4B$34.A.AB7.6B$35.2A5B3.7B
$37.16B$37.17B$38.17B$37.19B$35.17B.4B$33.19B2.4B$33.2BC2.13B4.4B$32.
3BC.C4B.7B6.4B$33.2B3C4B2.6B7.4B$32.3B2.C4B2.6B8.4B$31.10B3.5B10.4B$
30.4B8.9B9.4B$30.3B9.2CB4.2C10.4B$28.4B11.C5.C12.4B$28.2A10.3C7.3C10.
4B$29.A10.C11.C11.4B$26.3A36.4B$26.A39.3B$67.2B$68.B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by chris_c » May 29th, 2015, 2:18 pm

simsim314 wrote:Very strange, can't find it in the conduit collection nor in dvrgn's latest H->G collection (and it's 5 eaters).
Agreed. I reported this one a few pages back and was also surprised to find it nowhere else. As far as I know it is the H->G with the smallest known eastern extent that shoots a glider to the east. For example, it is currently used in the p482 gun:

Code: Select all

x = 82, y = 50, rule = B3/S23
19b2o11bo$19b2o10bobo$31bobo2b2o3bo$30b2ob2o2bo2bobo$34bobo3bobo12b2o$
30b2obo2b4obo13bo$30b2obobo3bo13bobo25bo$34bobo3bo12b2o24b3o$35bobo3bo
36bo$36bo3b2o36b2o$61b2o$62bo$62bobo$27b2o34b2o$27b2o$12b2o67bo$11bo2b
o64bobo$10bob2o66b2o$10bo65bo$9b2o64bo$24b2o49bo$24bo$25b3o24b2o$27bo
8bo2b2o11b2o$34b3o3bo$33bo3b3o$20b2o11b2o2bo8bo23b2o5b2o$20b2o24b3o22b
o5bo$49bo18b3o7b3o$48b2o5bo12bo11bo$53b2o8b2o$2o52b2o7bo$2o58b2obo$59b
o2bo$60b2o$45b2o$45b2o2$5b2o$5b2o$32b2o3bo$32bo3bobo$19b2o12bo3bobo$
18bobo13bo3bobob2o$18bo13bob4o2bob2o$17b2o12bobo3bobo$31bobo2bo2b2ob2o
$32bo3b2o2bobo$40bobo10b2o$41bo11b2o!
Meanwhile, here is a lower bound for the size of a G->boat for the recently discussed highway robber:

Code: Select all

x = 229, y = 111, rule = B3/S23
110b2o$109bobo$103b2o4bo$101bo2bo2b2ob4o$101b2obobobobo2bo$104bobobobo
$104bobob2o$105bo2$118b2o$109b2o7bo$109b2o5bobo$116b2o7$106b2o$107bo$
104b3o$104bo8$36b2o4bo$27b2o7bobo2bobo$28bo9b4o2bo$28bobo6bo4bobo$29b
2o6b2o2b2ob2o$47bo$41b2ob4o2bo$41b2obo3b3o$47bo$47b2o4$7bo54bo$7b3o52b
3o$10bo54bo$9b2o53b2o$79b2o$79bo$76b2obo$75bo2bo$76b2o$61b2o$61b2o$2o$
2o33b2o149bo$23b2o9bobo4b2o141b3o$23bobo8bo6bo6b2o3bo129bo6bo$25bo7b2o
7b3o3bo3bobo128b2o4bobo$13b2o10b2o17bo4bo3bobo133bobo35bo$13bo36bo3bob
ob2o107bo20b2ob3o32bo$3b2o9b3o31bob4o2bob2o107b3o24bo31b3o$4bo11bo30bo
bo3bobo114bo17b2ob3o6bo$3bo43bobo2bo2b2ob2o109b2o17b2obo6b3o$3b2o43bo
3b2o2bobo138bo$56bobo10b2o126b2o11bo$57bo11b2o101b2o36b3o$136bo34bo2bo
38bo$134b3o35b2o38b2o$133bo93b2o$133b2o92bo$224b2obo$110bo42bo69bo2bo$
70bo9bo15bo13b3o38b3o70b2o$40b2o28b3o5b3o13b3o16bo36bo58b2o$40bo17b2o
13bo3bo15bo18b2o23b2o11b2o11bo20b2o23b2o$30b2o5b2obo5bo11bo13b2o3b2o
14b2o42b2o24b3o19bo$31bo5bobo4b3o12bo106bo15b3o$29bo13bo14b2o105b2o15b
o$29b2o12b2o135b2o14b2o3bo$180bo15bo3bobo$29b2o146b2obo16bo3bobo$29bob
o144bo2bo18bo3bobob2o$30bo72b2o72b2o17bob4o2bob2o$27b3o25b2o46b2o57b2o
31bobo3bobo$27bo27b2o69b2o34b2o31bobo2bo2b2ob2o$126bobo67bo3b2o2bobo$
128bo75bobo10b2o$116b2o10b2o75bo11b2o$116bo32b2o3bo$106b2o9b3o29bo3bob
o$86b2o19bo11bo16b2o12bo3bobo$66bo6b2o11bobo17bo28bobo13bo3bobob2o$64b
3o6b2o13bo17b2o27bo13bob4o2bob2o$63bo24b2o44b2o12bobo3bobo$63b2o83bobo
2bo2b2ob2o$149bo3b2o2bobo$157bobo10b2o$158bo11b2o9$41b2o$41bo$42b3o$
44bo!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » May 29th, 2015, 2:28 pm

simsim314 wrote:Very strange, can't find it in the conduit collection nor in dvrgn's latest H->G collection (and it's 5 eaters)...
The script identifies it as SE23T-6. Chris posted it on page 14, and I've only fought my way through to page 7 so far... I thought at first it was a truncation of the Fx153 conduit, but only the first two trivial eaters are in the same places. I've added it to the collection, and will post another update over the weekend.

It's not as surprising as one might think that everyone would have missed this for the last couple of decades. Brice Due's F171 conduit wasn't found until 2006, on a trial eaters-only run of custom search code which was never finished or published... and that was only five eaters, or four if you don't suppress the extra glider.

Quite likely there's a lot left to find in the five-eater search space, let alone the five-catalyst search space.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simsim314 » May 29th, 2015, 4:01 pm

dvgrn wrote:Quite likely there's a lot left to find in the five-eater search space, let alone the five-catalyst search space.
Well to find this one, it's enough to search for 3 eaters. Everyone who see the first block and the glider can add eaters for those two by hand.

Actually I think with all the findings now, it's pretty hard to find anything spartan (or even near spartan) in small range (up to 5 SLs) and without transparency. I do think that bellman still has a lot of surprises, and second and third depth iteration for CatForce has a lot of potential as well.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simeks » May 29th, 2015, 4:33 pm

Possibly new H-to-G (SE21T-4):

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
34.C$23.2C7.3C$24.C6.C5.2C$24.C.CB3.2C4.2C$25.2CB.4B$15.C11.4B4.4C$
15.3C10.5B.BC2.C$18.C6.8B.B.2B$17.2C3.B.8B2.3B$17.22B$19.20B$19.19B2C
$18.20B2C$16.21B.B$14.23B$14.2BE14B3.4B$13.3BEBE4B.6B5.4B$14.2B3E4B2.
B.5B4.4B$13.5BE4B7.2C5.BDBD$12.10B8.C7.B2D$11.4B16.3C5.D$10.4B19.C$9.
4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.D3B$D3B$3D!
Edit: A variation:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 33, rule = LifeHistory
30.C$29.C.C$29.BC2B2.2C$30.2B3.2C$28.3B$15.C12.4B3.4C$15.3C10.5B.BC2.
C$18.C6.8B.B.2B$17.2C3.B.8B2.3B$17.22B$19.20B$19.19B2C$18.20B2C$16.
21B.B$14.23B$14.2BE14B3.4B$13.3BEBE4B.6B5.4B$14.2B3E4B2.B.5B4.4B$13.
5BE4B7.2C5.BDBD$12.10B8.C7.B2D$11.4B16.3C5.D$10.4B19.C$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B
$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.D3B$D3B$3D!
Last edited by simeks on May 29th, 2015, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Extrementhusiast » May 29th, 2015, 5:09 pm

Synchronized R+glider edgeshoots a Herschel (which can be used as a merge circuit):

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
30.A$30.A.A$30.2A2$3D19.2C$.D19.2C$.3D18.C10$16.2A$16.2A!
Unfortunately, it can't yet connect to anything.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by simeks » May 29th, 2015, 7:02 pm

Another possibly new H-to-G (NW27T147):

Code: Select all

x = 56, y = 55, rule = LifeHistory
32.2D$32.DBD$32.D3B$33.4B$34.4B$35.4B3.4B$36.4B2.5B5.2C$37.10B5.C$38.
10B.BC.C$33.2C3.10B.B2C$34.C4.11B$34.C.CB.11B4.C$35.2CB.10B3.3C$37.
12B2.C$27.2C8.12B2.2C$28.C8.16B$28.C.CB6.13B$29.2CB.3B3.13B$31.21B$
31.19B.B2C$32.17B2.BC.C$31.16B7.C$29.17B8.2C$27.19B$27.2BE15B$26.3BEB
E4B.7B$27.2B3E4B2.6B$26.5BE4B3.6B$25.10B6.4B$24.4B12.B2C2B$23.4B14.2C
.B2C$22.4B18.BC.C$21.4B22.C$20.4B23.2C$19.4B$18.4B$17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$
14.4B$13.4B$12.4B$11.4B$10.4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B
$.D3B$D3B$3D!
Edit: Eater 2 was overkill, block+eater1 was enough, undated pattern.

Edit 2: Also, a slighly more spartan variation of NW19T102 (on the right side):

Code: Select all

x = 75, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
14.2C46.2C$14.2C46.2C4$25.2C46.2C$2C23.C22.2C23.C$.C21.C.C23.C21.C.C$
.C.C19.2C24.C.C19.2C$2.2C46.2C5$71.2C$71.C.C$2.E47.E22.C$2.E.E45.E.E
20.2C$2.3E45.3E$4.E47.E2$14.2C$14.2C2.2C42.2C$18.C.C41.2C$20.C$20.2C!
Edit 3: Possibly new H->R:

Code: Select all

x = 41, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
34.2C$12.2C19.B2C2B$13.C13.2C5.4B$13.C.CB9.B2C2B4.4B$14.2CB.3B6.4B.6B
$16.7B2.13B$16.23B$17.23B$16.22BDB$14.24B2DB$12.25B2D2B$12.2BE26B$11.
3BEBE4B.18B$12.2B3E4B2.17B$11.5BE4B2.17B$10.10B4.6B2.8B$9.4B11.6B3.7B
$8.4B13.3B6.5B$7.4B12.7B4.3B$6.4B13.2C.B.2C5.B$5.4B15.C3.C$4.4B13.3C
5.3C$3.4B14.C9.C$2.4B$.4B$4B$3B!
Connects to this R->H for an F172:

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
59.2B$42.2A14.5B$31.2C5.2A2.A14.7B$9.2C19.B2C2B3.A.A.A13.8B$10.C13.2C
5.4B4.B.A4.A9.9B$10.C.CB9.B2C2B4.8B4.3A9.10B$11.2CB.3B6.4B.12B2.A13.
8BA$13.7B2.18B3.2A11.8BABA$13.27B2.3B9.10BABA$14.29B4.2B2.14BAB$13.
22BD18BD11B$11.24B2D17BDBD9B$9.25B2D18B3D7B$9.2BE44BD7B$8.3BEBE4B.41B
2.B$9.2B3E4B2.28B.4B$8.5BE4B2.24B6.2B3.B$7.10B4.6B2.15B6.3B.B2A$6.4B
11.6B3.14B7.A3B2A$5.4B13.3B6.11B.B2A4.A.AB.B$4.4B12.7B4.3B.6B2.BA.A2.
A.AB$3.4B13.2C.B.2C5.B2.2B9.A2.A$2.4B15.C3.C10.AB8.4A$.4B13.3C5.3C6.A
.A$4B14.C9.C6.2A9.2A$3B43.2A$2B$B!

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