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The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 25th, 2015, 11:32 am

Kazyan wrote:A quick 2-catalyst run from generations 90-130 using the catalyst searcher doesn't yield anything, so I guess it's up to manual searches or Bellman catalysts to get that working (and hopefully, delete that annoying blinker with a glider or something).

There are no open paths where a glider could plausibly destroy that blinker -- it's really well protected by the catalysts around it. I hate to be one of those boring it-will-never-work people, because an incredibly lucky B-heptomino or other traveling pattern in exactly the right place could reach in there and kill off the blinker. Or some kind of edge-shooter, I suppose.

It's just not very likely that the reaction will be clean, so then there will be new and different junk to clean up... and the blinker will probably even have to happen to be in the right phase for it to work:

Code: Select all
x = 58, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
12b2o$12bo39b2o$10bobo39bo$6b2o2b2o38bobo$6b2o38b2o2b2o$46b2o$10bo$o9b
o$2o8bo29bo8b3o$b2o37b2o$2o14b2o23b2o$16bo23b2o14b2o$14bobo39bo$14b2o
38bobo$54b2o3$2b2o$2b2o38b2o$42b2o!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART HEIGHT 240 LOOP 40 GPS 5 ]]

There's another equally painful problem. The block isn't restored until T=108, and it gets destroyed again by the subsequent reaction at T=125, with destruction probably inevitable by T=120.

Run the reaction in LifeHistory and you'll notice that after T=108, the whole southwest corner of the reaction is hiding inside its previous reaction envelope -- there are just two cells at T=106 and T=107 that could possibly be affected by a new catalyst, to reshape that reaction.

The new cells at T=123 and up are clearly too late -- catalyzing those locations would amount to rebuilding the block again, and of course it's much less likely the second time around because you've lost a lot of potential places for catalysts.

So that southwest mess would probably all have to be cleaned up by catalysts in the northwest, in twenty ticks or less, let's say from T=95 to T=115 but it's probably a narrower window of opportunity. Effects of catalysis only travel at lightspeed, and it's a fair distance across the active reaction to the problem you want to control, so you have to go back in time in this weird way. But if you modify the reaction earlier than about T=95, you'll almost certainly wreck the toad->block restoration reaction, which defeats the whole purpose.

So... at least according to my best guess, Bellman or catgl time will be better spent working on other reactions. It's a shame to just throw away that nice-looking transparent block, but two simultaneous probably-insoluble problems are lurking there, and the search space seems to small to compensate for the low probabilities.

-- Apologies for the long-winded analysis. Maybe if I've done a good enough job of explaining, some of these tools will be useful in guessing the odds of success for new reactions. Seems like this business needs an instruction manual. Except that it would all be just rules of thumb, with more exceptions than rules: "Tips and Tricks for Conduit Hunters"...
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 25th, 2015, 8:43 pm

Catalysts can be placed before the block reappears; the toad -> block reduction is farily robust. but yeah, it's looking bad for that transparent block.

Bellman found this weird catalyst for a Pi. Suppressing the natural pi that would otherwise appear (done with an eater here) moves the reaction a great deal towards the right, although the smoke ends up making the repeat time pretty long if this makes it as a component.

Code: Select all
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART HEIGHT 400 ZOOM 8 LOOP 200 GPS 40 ]]
x = 17, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$9bo$9bobo$4b2o4b2o$4bo$6bo$2b4obo$bo4bo$b5o2$b3o$o2bo$2o11b3o$12b
o3bo$12b2ob2o!


EDIT: Another catalyst from the search for completeness.

x = 20, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
5bo$4bobo$5bo2$3b5o$2bo4bo$o2b2o$2obo$3bo13bo$3b2o11b3o$15bo3bo$15b2ob
2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » February 27th, 2015, 4:52 pm

I remembered one of codeholic's finds from a while back that could be useful:

x = 14, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
5bo$4bobo$3bobo2bo$b3o2b2obo$o3b2o3bo2b2o$b3o2b3o3b2o$3bobo$4bobo$5bo
9$5b3o$5bobo$5bobo!


Originally used to improve the pentadecathlon-based MWSS gun, this could also be used for more H-to-G lanes.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby biggiemac » February 27th, 2015, 9:04 pm

From that reaction, an almost-reflector at p2.
x = 24, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
10.A$9.A.A$8.A.A2.A$6.3A2.2A.A$5.A3.2A3.A2.2A$.A4.3A2.3A3.2A$2.A5.A.A
$3A6.A.A$10.A3$23.A$21.3A$20.A$20.2A7$10.3A3$17.2A$17.A$18.3A$20.A!


(Is a useless discovery, but I am in the process of learning bellman and it could potentially be a route to non-uselessness)
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » February 28th, 2015, 5:53 pm

Kazyan wrote:Bellman found this weird catalyst for a Pi. Suppressing the natural pi that would otherwise appear (done with an eater here) moves the reaction a great deal towards the right, although the smoke ends up making the repeat time pretty long if this makes it as a component.

Just for the record, I tried a standard 2-catalyst catgl search on this -- haven't recompiled with all the promising new catalyst options like the ship+eater, of course -- and got surprisingly few results. No clean H-to-Gs or anything, even. I'm running a three-catalyst search now, just for the record, though really I should write a good post-processor before I try to sort through the inevitable drifts of equivalent useless reactions.

Here's the catgl-ready pattern that I started with. Search was from T=30 to T=170, survival required for 79 ticks:

x = 30, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
8.2C$9.C$9.C.C$4.2C4.CA$4.C6.D$6.C$2.4C.C$.C4.A$.3C2A2$.2CA$C2.A$2C
11.3A$12.A3.A$12.2A.2A3$12.A4.A$11.A$C17.A$3C16.A$3.C7.A$2.CAD5.A$6.A
13.2A$3.D4.A16.D$3.CA19.AC$3.CA19.AC$3.D4.A2.A2.A2.A2.A4.D3$8.A2.A2.A
2.A2.A3$11.A2.A2.A2.A2.A3$6.3D$7.D7.DAC7.DAC$7.3D6.C9.C$17.3C7.3C$19.
C9.C!

EDIT: Nothing good that I can see in a three-catalyst search either, using block-eater-eater2-snake-TWIT-boat-tub. Need to add some more catalysts to catgl!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » March 1st, 2015, 4:09 pm

I was exploring a little bit Kazyan's Pi catalyst, and suprisingly enough it's one stubborn reaction that refuses to be too useful. Anyway here are some of my findings:

Combining with dvgrn catalyst another H->G:

x = 41, y = 41, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$9bo$9bobo$4b2o4b2o12bo$4bo19b3o11b2o$6bo20bo9bobo$2b4obo18b2o5b2o
2bo$bo4bo26bobob2o$b5o28b2obo2bo$39b2o$b3o$o2bo$2o6$35b2o$o34bo$3o27bo
5b3o$3bo26b3o5bo$2b2o29bo$32b2o2$3b2o19b2o$3b2o19b2o10$6b3o$7bo8b2o8b
2o$7b3o6bo9bo$17b3o7b3o$19bo9bo!


Almost finished Pi->G (probably eater will work):

x = 40, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$9bo$9bobo$4b2o4b2o$4bo$6bo$2b4obo$bo4bo$b5o2$b3o$o2bo$2o$13b3o$
13bobo$13bobo3$34b2o$34bobob2o$32bobob2obo$25b2o5b2o$26bo$23b3o$23bo!


Pi->C but badly placed - so will work only if new C->X would be found:

x = 41, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
9.2A$10.A$10.A.A25.2A$5.2A4.2A25.A$5.A30.A.A$7.A28.2A$3.4A.A$2.A4.A$
2.5A2$2.3A$.A2.A$.2A$14.3A19.2D$14.A.A17.D2.D$14.A.A17.D.D$34.3D5$26.
2A$27.A$24.3A$24.A!


Finally here are some potential starting points for further searches:

x = 79, y = 257, rule = LifeBellman
4$36.10E$36.10E$22.2A12.10E$23.A12.5E2C3E$23.A.A10.2E2.C4.E$18.2A4.2A
10.2E.C3.2CE$18.A17.2EC3.C.C$20.A16.2EC3.C$16.4A.A$15.A4.A$15.5A2$15.
3A$14.A2.A$14.2A$27.3A$27.A.A$27.A.A6$39.2A$40.A$37.3A$37.A34$24.2A$
25.A$25.A.A23.A$20.2A4.2A21.3A$20.A27.A$22.A25.2A$18.4A.A$17.A4.A$17.
5A2$17.3A$16.A2.A$16.2A$29.3A$29.A.A$29.A.A6$41.2A$42.A$39.3A$39.A33$
50.6E$50.6E$50.6E$50.6E$24.2A24.6E$25.A24.6E$25.A.A25.3E$20.2A4.2A25.
C2E$20.A30.C.C2E$22.A28.2C.2E$18.4A.A$17.A4.A$17.5A2$17.3A$16.A2.A$
16.2A$29.3A$29.A.A$29.A.A27$50.6E$50.6E$50.6E$50.6E$24.2A24.6E$25.A
24.6E$25.A.A25.3E$20.2A4.2A25.C2E$20.A30.C.C2E$22.A28.2C.2E$18.4A.A$
17.A4.A$17.5A32.E2$17.3A$16.A2.A$16.2A$29.3A$29.A.A25.2E$29.A.A26.E$
55.2C.E$55.C.CE$57.CE$57.2E$54.5E33$49.7E$49.7E$49.7E$25.2A25.C.2E$
26.A24.2C2.E$26.A.A26.E$21.2A4.2A27.3E$21.A35.2E$23.A31.2C2E$19.4A.A
29.C.C2E$18.A4.A31.C.2E$18.5A34.2E$58.E$18.3A37.E$17.A2.A$17.2A$30.3A
$30.A.A$30.A.A!


EDIT Those two looks remotely useful:

x = 68, y = 96, rule = LifeBellman
3$32.30E$32.30E$32.30E$33.29E$22.2A9.29E$23.A9.29E$23.A.A7.9E5.15E$
18.2A4.2A7.8E7.14E$18.A14.7E9.13E$20.A18.E10.12E$16.4A.A29.11E$15.A4.
A30.11E$15.5A31.11E$38.2A11.11E$15.3A19.A2.A9.12E$14.A2.A23.A9.11E$
14.2A13.A3.A.A5.2A9.10E$28.A.A2.A.A6.2A8.10E$27.A6.A5.A.A9.10E$28.A2.
2A7.2A10.10E$29.5A18.10E$31.A.A18.10E$48.2C2.10E$48.C.C.10E$46.C.C.2C
10E$35.3E6.18E$32.30E$32.30E$32.30E$32.30E33$30.30E$30.30E$30.30E$31.
29E$20.2A9.29E$21.A9.29E$21.A.A7.14E4.11E$16.2A4.2A7.11E7.C10E$16.A
14.10E6.C.C10E$18.A18.3E7.2C.10E$14.4A.A17.2E11.10E$13.A4.A31.10E$13.
5A32.10E$36.2A14.8E$13.3A19.A2.A15.6E$12.A2.A23.A15.5E$12.2A13.A3.A.A
5.2A14.5E$26.A.A2.A.A6.2A13.5E$25.A6.A5.A.A14.5E$26.A2.2A7.2A15.5E$
27.5A23.5E$29.A.A22.6E$53.7E$52.8E$48.2C2.8E$33.2E7.3E3.C3.8E$30.6E3.
8E2.2C9E$30.30E$30.30E$30.30E!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » March 1st, 2015, 7:04 pm

simsim314 wrote:Combining with dvgrn catalyst another H->G

This is a nice H->G2 that works with the standard Herschel receiver:
x = 495, y = 102, rule = LifeHistory
225.2A128.2A128.2A$225.A3.2A124.A3.2A124.A3.2A$96.2A115.2A12.A2.A112.
2A12.A2.A112.2A12.A2.A$96.A3.2A112.A11.4A114.A11.4A114.A11.4A$84.2A
12.A2.A112.A.A127.A.A127.A.A$85.A11.4A114.2A9.2A117.2A9.2A117.2A9.2A$
85.A.A138.A.A127.A.A127.A.A$86.2A9.2A112.2A14.2A112.2A14.2A112.2A14.
2A$97.A.A111.A.A127.A.A127.A.A$82.2A14.2A113.A129.A129.A$82.A.A128.2A
128.2A128.2A$84.A$84.2A$228.2A128.2A128.2A$228.A.A127.A.A127.A.A$99.
2A107.2A20.A107.2A20.A107.2A20.A$99.A.A98.A7.2A20.2A98.A7.2A20.2A98.A
7.2A20.2A$79.2A20.A98.3A127.3A127.3A$71.A7.2A20.2A100.A129.A129.A$71.
3A128.2A128.2A128.2A$74.A$73.2A119.2A128.2A128.2A$195.A129.A129.A$65.
2A128.A.A127.A.A127.A.A$66.A129.2A128.2A128.2A$66.A.A$67.2A3$231.2A
128.2A128.2A$231.A129.A129.A$102.2A92.C35.3A91.C35.3A91.C35.3A$102.A
93.C.C35.A91.C.C35.A91.C.C35.A$67.C35.3A90.3C29.A97.3C29.A97.3C29.A$
67.C.C35.A92.C28.A.A98.C28.A.A98.C28.A.A$67.3C29.A126.A.A2.A124.A.A2.
A124.A.A2.A$69.C28.A.A107.2A16.A.A.2A106.2A16.A.A.2A106.2A16.A.A.2A$
97.A.A2.A105.2A2.2A9.2A.A.A109.2A2.2A9.2A.A.A109.2A2.2A9.2A.A.A$79.2A
16.A.A.2A109.A.A9.A.A.A113.A.A9.A.A.A113.A.A9.A.A.A$79.2A2.2A9.2A.A.A
114.A7.A.A.2A116.A7.A.A.2A116.A7.A.A.2A$83.A.A9.A.A.A114.2A6.2A120.2A
6.2A120.2A6.2A$85.A7.A.A.2A$85.2A6.2A13$164.2A$164.2A$283.2A$283.2A$
35.2A242.A133.2A$35.2A242.3A131.2A$138.2A142.A126.A$137.A.A141.2A126.
3A$138.A164.2A107.A$303.2A106.2A11.A$9.2A412.A.A7.2A$8.A.A120.D291.A.
A7.2A$9.A120.2D25.2A265.A$35.2A92.2D11.2D13.2A$34.A2.A92.D10.2D$2.D
32.2A94.D10.D148.2A$.2D25.2A261.2A$2D11.2D13.2A247.2A142.2A$.D10.2D
263.2A142.2A$2.D10.D259.2A132.2A$170.2A101.2A132.2A$170.2A231.2A$166.
2A235.2A$166.A.A$41.2A125.A$41.2A125.2A$37.2A116.2A$37.A.A115.2A$39.A
$39.2A$26.2A125.2A136.D$26.2A125.2A134.3D$290.D130.D$419.3D$24.2A271.
2A121.D$24.2A270.A.A$297.A129.2A$426.A.A$427.A4$289.D2.2D$290.3D$291.
D127.D2.2D$420.3D$421.D!

As I recall, there is an old H->G2 that uses a rectifier, but I think this new one is more compact.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » March 2nd, 2015, 9:42 am

simsim314 wrote:Almost finished Pi->G (probably eater will work):

RLE

In fact it does:
x = 60, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
4$22b2o$23bo$23bobo$18b2o4b2o27b2o$18bo34bo$20bo30bobo$16b4obo29b2o$
15bo4bo$15b5o2$15b3o$14bo2bo$14b2o$27b3o$27bobo$27bobo3$48b2o$48bobob
2o$46bobob2obo$39b2o5b2o$40bo$37b3o$37bo!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » March 2nd, 2015, 4:45 pm

A for awesome wrote:
simsim314 wrote:Almost finished Pi->G (probably eater will work)...

In fact it does...

Is there a way to get the pi in there, though, past that southwest eater? Both chiralities of the standard H-to-pi are pretty much hopeless.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » March 2nd, 2015, 5:00 pm

dvgrn wrote:Is there a way to get the pi in there


Not that I know of. There is an interesting point in this research, the more exploration is done in the area, the easier it becomes to "appreciate" and find new conduits.

For example I've found Pi->C but not the Pi part nor the C part is useful in their location (although there is plenty of space in both sides), because of the current knowledge of X->Pi and C->X. The more we explore the possibilities and the more we have such "half conduits", the more pieces of the puzzle we got to place them all together into something useful.

I've also posted Pi->"edgy" Honey farm for example, but we don't have too much research on that one as well.

It feels like if we could collect just large enough amount of these "almost" conduits, we could combine them together into much more "smooth" conduit collection.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 4th, 2015, 12:53 am

The person who finds a tight-fit Pi-to-X is going to have so many conduits to their name, at the rate Pi stuff is showing up.

x = 15, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo9b2o$2b2o9b2o6$2o$2o5bo$6b3o4b2o$8bo4b2o!


EDIT: It's a real kick in the teeth that this doesn't fit with anything in the elementary conduit collection.

x = 42, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
$11.2B7.2A$9.5B5.B2AB$9.5B6.2B$8.7B4.2B$8.7B2.6B$8.7B2.7B$8.8B.7B$6.
19B$5.23B3.2B2.2B$6.32BD$6.32BDBD$6.5B3C13B2A9B3DB$7.4BC.C13B2A10B.D$
5.6BC.C25B$3.A.2A5B.11B2.2B.3B.B$.3AB2AB2.B3.10B$A4.B10.8B$.3A.2A11.
4B$3.A.A$3.A.A$4.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby dvgrn » March 4th, 2015, 5:22 pm

simsim314 wrote:EDIT Those two looks remotely useful...

I liked one of them enough to run a two-catalyst catgl search on it, anyway -- T=12 to T=200, survival time 49 ticks to avoid the arbitrary MAXGENS limit of 250:

x = 40, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
8.2C$9.C$9.C.C$4.2C4.CA$4.C5.2D$6.C2.D$2.4C.CD$.C4.CD$.5CD$5.D4.A13.
2A$.3CD18.A2.A$C2.C23.A$2C5.A2.A4.A3.A.A5.2A$14.A.A2.A.A6.2A$13.A6.A
5.A.A$4.A2.A2.A3.A2.2A7.2A$15.5A$17.A.A$4.A2.A2.A2.A20.2A$C31.2DC.C2D
$3C29.C.C.3C$3.C4.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A2.A5.2C5.C$2.CAD33.2C$6.A$3.D4.A2.A
2.A2.A2.A$3.CA19.2A$3.CA18.D2CD$3.D4.A2.A2.A2.A2.A!

A probably-unstoppable LOM shows up about T=75, so something good has to be done before that. There's another new H-to-G, at least:

Code: Select all
x = 41, y = 40, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$18bobo$20bo$20b2o$22bo11b2o$20b3o11b2o$19bo$19b2o$36bo$35bobo$2o
34bo$bo35b3o$bobo35bo$2b2o$14b2o$14b2o5$2o$bo$bobo$2b2o5$37b2o$37bo$2b
o35b3o$2bobo35bo$2b3o29bo$4bo28bobo$32bobo2bo$14b2o16bobob2o$14b2o2b2o
9b2obobo$18bobo9bobobo$20bo7bobob2o$20b2o6b2o!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART THEME 7 LOOP 350 ]]

Seems like a lot of catalyzing for one output glider, but I suppose if we keep going like this we'll eventually have an H-to-G for every possible nearby output lane relative to a Herschel, which will guarantee reasonably compact solutions to new connection problems.

On the other hand, a couple of Snarks go a long way these days to getting new output lanes, and this definitely as big as two Snarks...!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Extrementhusiast » March 5th, 2015, 12:36 am

Relatively simple bookend-to-glider:
x = 31, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
7b2o$7bo$5bobo$4bobo$2o3bo$2o5$29b2o$29b2o2$8b3o$8bobo$7bo2bo$7b2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 5th, 2015, 6:34 pm

Let's take Bellman to the Pi-Queen Bee converter; there's a lot of room to work with after the QB hits one of its own beehives. Using Bellman One allows extraction of a glider, but it's hard to tame the rest of the mess with manual catalyst placement.

x = 30, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
2o18b2o$bo18bo$bobo14bobo$2b2o5bobo6b2o$9bobo$9b3o10$23b2ob2o$23b2obo
2bo$26bob2o$26bo$25b2o$22bobo2b2o$22b2o2bo2bo$27b2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Jackk » March 5th, 2015, 7:10 pm

On a variation on the same theme, an eater can intercept the queen bee earlier. Looks hard to finish, though...

Code: Select all
x = 27, y = 46, rule = B3/S23
6bo$6b3o$9bo$8b2o15$10b3o$10bobo$3b2o5bobo6b2o$2bobo14bobo$2bo18bo2bo$
b2o18b4o2$23b4o$22bo3bo$22b2o3$2o19b2o$2o19b2o10$17b3o$8b2o8bo$9bo6b3o
$6b3o$6bo!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 5th, 2015, 7:30 pm

Here we go! It's a big clunky H-to-G, but the area near the yellow eater has enough going on that we might be able to get a Herschel out of it.

x = 43, y = 56, rule = LifeHistory
2.4B8.C8.7B$3.4B7.3C6.6B$4.4B9.C4.2B3D2B$5.4B7.2C4.4BD2B$6.4B6.4B.4B
3DB$7.4B7.11B$8.4B5.12B$9.4B4.12B$10.4B3.11B$11.4B3.7B$12.4B2.8B$13.
14B$12.16B$9.B.17B.B$8.2CB.17B2C$8.2C19B2C$9.2B.18B$12.13B2.5B$14.10B
6.2C$14.9B7.C3.C$14.9B8.4C$15.8B$9.2C5.8B5.4C$10.C5.9B4.C2.C$10.C.CB
2.11BC.C$11.2CB.3BDBD6B2C$13.5BDBD6B$13.5B3D6B$7.2C4.14B$8.C5.13B$8.C
.CB4.11B$9.2C16B2.3B9.2E$.2C7.23B.B6.E$C2.C2.2C3.25B2.BE.E$.2C2.C.C4.
25B.B2E$3.2C.B6.26B$3.C2.2B.30B$2C.C.34B$C2.C.2C31B$2.2C.2C31B$6.2B.
29B$9.28B$9.28B$10.26B$12.25B$12.24B$13.17B.4B$14.15B3.3B$14.4B.B.6B$
13.4B4.6B$12.4B5.5B$11.4B4.6B$10.4B5.2C.B$9.4B7.C$8.4B5.3C$7.4B6.C!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby simsim314 » March 6th, 2015, 4:52 pm

Not sure if this proto H->Pi known/useful:

Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o2$4o$o3bo$3b2o2$2bo$3b2o$4b2o$6bo$b5o$4bo!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART THEME 1 GPS 4 LOOP 22 ]]
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby A for awesome » March 6th, 2015, 5:34 pm

simsim314 wrote:Not sure if this proto H->Pi known/useful:

viewer

This, at least, stops the catalysts from getting destroyed:
x = 18, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
2o$2o$13bo$4o7b3o$o3bo5bo$3b2o5b2o4b2o$16bo$2bo11bobo$3b2o9b2o$4b2o$6b
o$b5o$4bo!
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)

$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1-\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$

http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sphenocorona » March 6th, 2015, 9:07 pm

simsim314 wrote:Not sure if this proto H->Pi known/useful

There is at least one conduit (Pi->B) which can accept that output glider. Here's an example Rx315 using the H->Pi you described:

Code: Select all
#C [[ AUTOSTART THUMBNAIL LOOP 400 ]]
x = 91, y = 50, rule = LifeHistory
44.C$35.2C5.3C$29.2C5.C4.C$30.C5.C.CB2.C3.2C$17.A11.C7.C.C2B.C2.2C10.
2C$17.3A9.2C7.C2B.2C14.C$20.A9.B6.3B4.4C7.BC.C$7.2A10.2A9.3B4.2B5.C3.
C3.2C.B2C$8.A10.5B5.6B.4B6.B2C2.B2C2B$8.A.AB9.4B3.13B5.2B4.4B$9.2AB.
3B4.6B2.16B.4B.6B$11.7B.9BD3B2C21B$11.17B2D2B2C16B3D2B.2B$12.17B2D21B
D4B2C$11.18BD20B3D2B.B2C$9.19BD21B2D2BD2.B$7.18B.B3.13B.4B.2B3D2B$7.
2BC13B7.7B.B6.4B.2BD4B$6.3BCBC4B.6B23.12B$7.2B3C4B2.B.5B22.12B$6.5BC
4B7.2A23.12B$5.10B8.A25.7B.4B$4.4B16.3A23.6B2.4B$4.3B19.A23.7B2.4B$2.
4B44.7B3.4B$2.2A46.8B.6B22.B$3.A46.16B20.3D$3A47.17B19.BDB$A49.18B17.
2B3D$51.18B16.5B$54.11B.4B15.6B$53.13B.4B5.2A7.6B$52.20B3.B2AB6.5B$
50.B.21B3.3B5.6B$46.2A.2A23B3.B7.6B$47.A.A.B.28B3.7B$45.A.A.A.A38B$
45.2A3.2A.B.35B$54.32B2A3B$54.32B2A2B$53.36B$51.A35B$49.3A2.7B.22B2.
2B$48.A5.7B3.7B.8B.2B2.B2AB$48.2A4.7B4.5B5.6B5.2A$54.5B6.4B8.4B$52.2A
B.2B7.4B7.B2A2B$51.A.AB10.B2AB8.2A$51.A14.2A$50.2A!

There are probably other conduits which can replace the B->H I used in the middle - that particular one is just simple and easy.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 7th, 2015, 12:58 pm

New Pi catalyst. Tinkering yielded two Pi-to-G conduits--one of which fits with nothing and one of which only fits with one. Still looking for better.

x = 71, y = 79, rule = B3/S23
46bo$45bobo$45bobo$17bo25b3ob2o$15b3o24bo$14bo28b3ob2o15bo$14b2o29bob
2o13b3o$61bo$40b2o19b2o$2ob2o35bo2b2o$bobo2bo34bobo2bo$bobob2o33b2obob
2o$2b2o7b3o3b2o25bo6b3o$5b2o4bobo3b2o26b2o4bobo$2b3o2bo3bobo28b3o2bo3b
obo$bo3b2o34bo3b2o$2bo2bo36bo2bo$3bobo37bobo$4bo39bo15$7bo49bo$7b3o45b
3o$10bo43bo$9b2o43b2o3$20b2ob2o15b2ob2o$18bo2bobo17bobo2bo$18b2obobo
17bobob2o$6b2o13b2o19b2o13b2o$6b2o10b2o25b2o10b2o$17bo2b3o19b3o2bo$18b
2o3bo17bo3b2o$19bo2bo19bo2bo$19bobo21bobo$20bo5bo17bo21bo$24b3o37b3o$
23bo39bo$23b2o38b2o3$b2o19b2o17b2o19b2o$b2o19b2o17b2o19b2o10$18b3o37b
3o$9b2o8bo29b2o8bo$10bo6b3o30bo6b3o$7b3o37b3o$7bo39bo6$27b2o38b2o$27bo
bo37bobo$29bo39bo$29b2o38b2o!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sphenocorona » March 7th, 2015, 9:33 pm

Here's an H->B, which ends up having the same effect as the one found on the second page of this thread by Simkin:
x = 30, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
18.A$18.3A$21.A3.2A$20.2A4.A$20.5B.A.2A$.2C6.4B9.B2A.A.A$2.C5.7B6.BA.
A.A.A$2.C.CB.10B.4B2A3.A$3.2CB.17B$5.18B$5.18B$4.18B$4.2BC15B$3.3BCBC
4B.7B$4.2B3C4B2.B2D2BD$3.5BC4B4.3D$2.10B6.D$.4B$4B!

It has the same issues as that H->B, but this has an envelope different enough from both it and R64 that it might actually be better than having an R64 in some niche situations where another conduit is very close but the repeat time does not need to be very short.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 8th, 2015, 10:23 am

I'm trying catalysts for the century now. Here's one that's mediocre, but I got a C-to-C out if it. Not chainable and nothing hooks up to the output, but worth keeping here if a compatible C-to-whatever shows up. (Right now I am catalyzing only one side of the century.)

x = 89, y = 48, rule = LifeHistory
9.3D$9.D.D47.3D$8.D2.D47.D.D$8.2D48.D2.D14.2C$58.2D16.C$2A24.2C49.C$
2A14.3D6.C.C22.2A24.2C$16.D.D7.C23.2A14.3D6.C2.2C$16.D2.D46.D.D7.C3.C
$18.2D4.5C37.D2.D7.3C$24.C4.C38.2D4.3C$26.2C.C44.C2.C$4.2A21.C.2C45.
2C$5.A21.C26.2A$2.3A21.2C27.A$2.A49.3A32.2A$52.A34.A$85.A.A$85.2A11$
83.2A$83.A.A$85.A$54.3C28.2A$56.C$54.3C$26.2C$16.3C6.C.C$16.C.C7.C$
16.C2.C$18.2C4.5C$24.C4.C38.2A$26.2C.C23.2A7.2A5.A$27.C.2C23.A7.2A2.
3A$27.C23.3A12.A$26.2C23.A15.2A$68.A$66.A$66.2A!


Why can't they ever just have a clean, out-of-the-way output?

EDIT: C-to-G. Not much, but you take what you can get.

x = 31, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory
16.4B$9.2A4.4B$8.B2AB2.4B$9.3B.4B$8.B.B.4B$7.8B$7.7B$5.B.6B4.3B$4.17B
$3.19B$.21B4.2C$16B3C5B.C.C$.15BCBC7BC$3.13BC2BC4B$5.7B.5B2C2B.B5C$5.
B.2B4.9B.BC4.C$4.2A12.3B5.2C.C$4.A13.3B6.C.2C$5.A13.B7.C$4.2A20.2C!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » March 8th, 2015, 4:17 pm

Kazyan wrote:Why can't they ever just have a clean, out-of-the-way output?

They can. You just need to have extremely good luck:
x = 40, y = 43, rule = LifeHistory
28.2A$28.A$30.A$29.2A$2.2A15.3D6.A$2.2A15.D.D7.4A$19.D2.D9.A$21.2D4.
3A$27.A2.A$29.2A$7.2A$8.A$5.3A$5.A3$2A$.A33.2A$.A.A31.2A$2.2A7$36.2A$
36.A.A$38.A$7.3C28.2A$9.C$7.3C7$6.2A$7.A6.2A$4.3A7.A$4.A7.A.A$12.2A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Kazyan » March 8th, 2015, 4:38 pm

Sokwe wrote:They can. You just need to have extremely good luck:


I'm flabbergasted as to how I missed that. Totally flummoxed. Bamboozled, even.

This yields at least three new conduits: an Lx567, F654, and Rx695. Unfortunately, those are really big numbers and the conduits are large, but they're here and they're new!

x = 269, y = 92, rule = LifeHistory
242.2A$226.2A14.A$215.2A8.B2AB10.BA.A$138.2B4.2A67.2B2AB7.4B7.2B.B2A$
136.5B2.A.A67.4B8.4B6.5B$135.8B2A61.2A5.6B5.5B4.7B4.2A$135.7B.B61.B2A
B2.2B.8B.7B3.7B5.A$135.6B.B63.2B2.22B.7B2.3A$136.2BA5B63.35BA$136.BAB
A5B60.36B$41.B94.BABA4B60.2B2A32B$40.3D94.BA5B59.3B2A32B$40.BDB91.3B.
6B60.35B.B.2A3.2A$39.2B3D87.13B60.38BA.A.A.A$39.5B87.10B.B60.7B3.28B.
B.A.A$39.6B83.14B61.6B7.B3.23B2A.2A$39.6B83.14B62.6B5.3B3.21B.B$39.5B
83.16B61.5B6.B2AB3.20B$38.6B84.15B60.6B7.2A5.4B.13B$39.6B83.14B61.6B
15.4B.11B$38.7B84.14B61.5B16.18B$38.6B87.13B60.3D2B17.18B$38.6B87.13B
61.BDB19.17B$38.6B86.14B61.3D20.16B$37.8B86.13B.2B59.B22.6B.8B$38.8B
83.3B.15BD81.4B3.7B$37.9B83.2A2.15BDBD80.4B2.7B$37.9B84.A3.B.12B3DB
80.4B2.6B$37.10B80.3A5.15BD82.4B.7B$37.5B2A3B80.A8.13B85.12B$37.5B2A
4B87.13B87.12B$37.11B87.13B88.12B$37.4BD7BA.2A82.6BD6B89.4BD2B.4B$39.
B3D4B2.2A.A80.2AB.3B3D3B.B2A88.2B3D2B.3B$39.D2B2D2B86.A.AB2.BD2B2DB2.
BA.A88.D2B2DB2.2B$39.5B88.A6.6B5.A88.6B3.B$39.5B87.2A6.6B5.2A87.5B$
38.6B94.6B94.6B$36.9B91.9B91.9B$35.11B89.11B89.11B$34.13B87.13B87.13B
$33.15B85.15B85.15B$32.16B84.16B84.16B$33.17B5.2A76.17B5.2A76.17B5.2A
$33.18B4.A77.18B4.A77.18B4.A$32.20B5.A74.20B5.A74.20B5.A$30.2B.19B4.
2A72.2B.19B4.2A72.2B.19B4.2A$29.2A15B3D5B.A73.2A15B3D5B.A73.2A15B3D5B
.A$29.2AB.13BDBD7B4A69.2AB.13BDBD7B4A69.2AB.13BDBD7B4A$30.B.14BD2BD4B
5.A70.B.14BD2BD4B5.A70.B.14BD2BD4B5.A$35.7B.5B2D2B.B3A78.7B.5B2D2B.B
3A78.7B.5B2D2B.B3A$36.3B4.9B.BA2.A78.3B4.9B.BA2.A78.3B4.9B.BA2.A$34.
5B4.9B4.2A76.5B4.9B4.2A76.5B4.9B4.2A$34.2AB7.7B83.2AB7.7B83.2AB7.7B$
35.A9.6B84.A9.6B84.A9.6B$32.3A9.10B13.2A63.3A9.10B13.2A63.3A9.10B13.
2A$26.B5.A11.11B3.3B6.A58.B5.A11.11B3.3B6.A58.B5.A11.11B3.3B6.A$26.2B
13.14B2.5B2.BA.A58.2B13.14B2.5B2.BA.A58.2B13.14B2.5B2.BA.A$26.3B11.
23B.B2A59.3B11.23B.B2A59.3B11.23B.B2A$26.4B8.27B61.4B8.27B61.4B8.27B$
27.4B6.28B62.4B6.28B62.4B6.28B$12.3B13.4B5.27B48.3B13.4B5.27B48.3B13.
4B5.27B$12.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B49.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B49.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$13.4B
5.B2AB4.4B.27B51.4B5.B2AB4.4B.27B51.4B5.B2AB4.4B.27B$14.4B5.3B5.29B
54.4B5.3B5.29B54.4B5.3B5.29B$15.4B3.B.B6.31B53.4B3.B.B6.31B53.4B3.B.B
6.31B$16.4B.6B4.32B53.4B.6B4.32B53.4B.6B4.32B$17.10B2.34B54.10B2.34B
54.10B2.34B$9.2A7.45B46.2A7.45B46.2A7.45B$10.A8.42B.B2A45.A8.42B.B2A
45.A8.42B.B2A$10.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A44.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A44.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$
11.2AB.3B2.38B7.A45.2AB.3B2.38B7.A45.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$13.21B3D18B10.2A
46.21B3D18B10.2A46.21B3D18B10.2A$13.23BD17B59.23BD17B59.23BD17B$14.
20B3D14B63.20B3D14B63.20B3D14B$13.38B62.38B62.38B$11.39B61.39B61.39B$
9.19B3.17B61.19B3.17B61.19B3.17B$9.2BC15B5.14B63.2BC15B5.14B63.2BC15B
5.14B$8.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B62.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B62.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$9.2B3C4B
2.6B7.7B.5B63.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B63.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$8.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.
3B63.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B63.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$7.10B6.4B7.A6.2A64.10B6.4B
7.A6.2A64.10B6.4B7.A6.2A$6.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A64.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A64.4B
12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$5.4B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A63.4B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A63.4B14.2A
.B2A2.A7.A.A$4.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A63.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A63.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A$4.
3B22.A.2A71.3B22.A.2A71.3B22.A.2A$2.4B23.A72.4B23.A72.4B23.A$2.2A24.
2A72.2A24.2A72.2A24.2A$3.A99.A99.A$3A97.3A97.3A$A99.A99.A!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Postby Sokwe » March 8th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Kazyan wrote:This yields at least three new conduits: an Lx567, F654, and Rx695.

There's also this F592:
x = 67, y = 87, rule = LifeHistory
34.2A$33.B2AB$34.2B$29.B3.2B$28.2AB.4B18.2B$28.2A8B10.4B2.2B$29.B.B2A
6B2.2B2.10B$32.2A15BD6B$32.17BD6B$28.21B3DB2AB$28.23BDB2AB$27.2A27B$
27.2A14B.B5.6B$28.B.11B11.B2.B$30.10B14.2B$31.12B10.3B$30.14B8.4B$31.
13B7.4B$31.13B6.4B$33.2B.8B5.4B$37.7B4.4B$37.7B3.4B$38.6B2.4B$36.B.
11B$35.13B$30.2A3.13B$31.A2.14B$31.A.A7BD6B$32.2A.5B3D3B.B2A$37.2BD2B
2DB2.BA.A$39.6B5.A$39.6B5.2A$38.6B$36.9B$35.11B$34.13B$33.15B$32.16B$
33.17B5.2A$33.18B4.A$32.20B5.A$30.2B.19B4.2A$29.2A15B3D5B.A$29.2AB.
13BDBD7B4A$30.B.14BD2BD4B5.A$35.7B.5B2D2B.B3A$36.3B4.9B.BA2.A$34.5B4.
9B4.2A$34.2AB7.7B$35.A9.6B$32.3A9.10B$26.B5.A11.11B3.B$26.2B13.14B2.
3B$26.3B11.20B$12.B13.4B8.23B.B$12.2B13.4B6.25B2A$12.3B13.4B5.25B2A$
12.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$13.4B5.B2AB4.4B.28B$14.4B5.3B5.27B2.B$15.4B3.B.B6.
31B$16.4B.6B4.32B$17.10B2.34B$9.2A7.45B$10.A8.42B.B2A$10.A.AB6.39B3.B
A.A$11.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$13.21B3D18B10.2A$13.23BD17B$14.20B3D14B$13.38B$
11.39B$9.19B3.17B$9.2BC15B5.14B$8.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$9.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B
$8.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$7.10B6.4B7.A6.2A$6.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$5.4B14.2A.B
2A2.A10.A$4.4B18.BA.A.A9.2A$4.3B22.A.2A$2.4B23.A$2.2A24.2A$3.A$3A$A!


And let's not forget this elegant H->Pi->C->B->Pi->B->H:
x = 78, y = 107, rule = LifeHistory
58.2B2.2B2.B$56.D11B$54.DBD12B2.B$53.B3D9B2AB.B2A$54.D11B2A3B2A$56.
14B.B$58.4B.7B$59.4B.7B$60.12B$61.11B$62.9B.3B$63.12B$60.2B.11B2A$59.
2A13B2A$59.2AB.10B.B$60.B2.10B$63.9B$62.10B$61.11B$60.11B$59.13B$58.
15B$57.19B$56.19B2A$55.4B.15B2A$54.4B.17B$53.19B$52.19B$51.20B$50.20B
$49.24B$32.A15.4B.20B$32.3A5.2A5.4B3.20B$35.A3.B2AB3.4B3.22B$34.2A4.
3B2.4B2.24B$34.5B2.B2.30B$36.7BD21B.10B$35.2A7BD13B.7B2.2B4.2A$35.2A
3B3DB2D12B2.3B.B4.B4.A$36.B.2BDB3D13B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A$38.2BDB2D13B4.BA
2.A4.A6.A$36.2B.6B.4B12.3A4.A$35.2A7B3.2B20.2A$34.B2A7B3.3B11.A.2A$
34.10B4.A2B.2A7.2A.A$32.2AB.8B3.A.A2B.A$31.A.AB.9B2.2AB2.A$31.A4.5BD
2B7.A$30.2A4.4B3D2B2.5A.A$34.2AB.BD2B2DB2.A4.A.A$33.A.AB2.6B3.A2.A2.A
$33.A5.5B3.2A3.2A$32.2A4.6B$36.9B$35.11B$34.13B$33.15B$32.16B$33.17B
5.2A$33.18B4.A$32.20B5.A$30.2B.19B4.2A$29.2A15B3D5B.A$29.2AB.13BDBD7B
4A$30.B.14BD2BD4B5.A$35.7B.5B2D2B.B3A$36.3B4.9B.BA2.A$34.5B4.9B4.2A$
34.2AB7.7B$35.A9.6B$32.3A9.10B$26.B5.A11.11B3.B$26.2B13.14B2.3B$26.3B
11.20B$12.B13.4B8.23B.B$12.2B13.4B6.25B2A$12.3B13.4B5.25B2A$12.4B7.2A
4.4B3.27B$13.4B5.B2AB4.4B.28B$14.4B5.3B5.27B2.B$15.4B3.B.B6.31B$16.4B
.6B4.32B$17.10B2.34B$9.2A7.45B$10.A8.42B.B2A$10.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$11.2A
B.3B2.38B7.A$13.21B3D18B10.2A$13.23BD17B$14.20B3D14B$13.38B$11.39B$9.
19B3.17B$9.2BC15B5.14B$8.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$9.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$8.5BC4B
3.6B6.2A7.3B$7.10B6.4B7.A6.2A$6.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$5.4B14.2A.B2A2.A10.
A$4.4B18.BA.A.A9.2A$4.3B22.A.2A$2.4B23.A$2.2A24.2A$3.A$3A$A!
-Matthias Merzenich
Sokwe
Moderator
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

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