ConwayLife.com - A community for Conway's Game of Life and related cellular automata
Home  •  LifeWiki  •  Forums  •  Download Golly

Slow salvo seeds

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Slow salvo seeds

Postby codeholic » April 12th, 2015, 3:01 pm

Now that there is Catagolue out there, I think it makes sense to open a special thread for slow salvo seeds for not-so-common still lifes and oscillators that might be useful for self-constructing circuitry. I think this topic is specific enough in order not to pile it all up into "Soup search results" thread.

Dead spark coil
x = 9, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
o$3o$bo2$7b2o$7b2o7$b2o$b2o!

x = 12, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
9b2o$9bobo$10bo3$b2o$o2bo$b2o6bobo$9bobo$9b3o!

x = 14, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
3b2o5bo$2bo2bo3bobo$3b2o3bo2bo$9b2o6$12b2o$12b2o3$b2o$obo$2bo!

x = 18, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
9bo5b2o$8bobo3bo2bo$8bo2bo3b2o$9b2o6$12b2o$12b2o3$b2o$obo$2bo!

x = 15, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
8bo$7bobo$7bobo$8bo3$8b2o$8bobo$9bo4$13bo$12bobo$12bobo$13bo3$b2o$obo$
2bo!

x = 15, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
6b2o5bo$5bo2bo3bobo$6b2o3bo2bo$12b2o3$13bo$12bobo$12bobo$13bo8$b2o$obo
$2bo!

x = 21, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
12bo5b2o$11bobo3bo2bo$11bo2bo3b2o$12b2o3$13bo$12bobo$12bobo$13bo8$b2o$
obo$2bo!

x = 16, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
13b2o$12bo2bo$13b2o5$11b2o$10bo2bo$b2o7bobo$obo8bo$2bo2$8bo$7bobo$7bob
o$8bo!

x = 22, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
13bo5b2o$12bobo3bo2bo$12bo2bo3b2o$13b2o3$13b2o$12bo2bo$13b2o4$b2o$obo$
2bo!

x = 21, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
13b2o$12bobo$13bo3$12b2o$11bo2bo3b2o$b2o8bobo3bo2bo$obo9bo5b2o$2bo!

x = 21, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
13b2o$12bobo$13bo3$12b2o4b2o$11bobo3bo2bo$b2o9bo5b2o$obo$2bo!

and so on...

House siamese shillelagh
x = 21, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
20bo$20bo$15bo4bo$15b3o$16bo$8b2o$8b2o7$8b2o$7bo2bo$8b2o$o$o$o8$8b3o2$
6bo$6bo$6bo!

x = 21, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
2bo$b2o$2o$o7$11b3o$4b2o$3bo2bo10b2o$4b2o10bo2bo$16bobo$17bo4$19b2o$
19b2o3$6bo$6bo$6bo!

x = 15, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
7bob2o$7b3o$8bo5$bo$obo10b2o$obo10b2o$bo2$8bo$8bo$8bo2$4b3o!

What's the minimum number of gliders to synthesise Herschel transmitter?
Ivan Fomichev
User avatar
codeholic
Moderator
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » April 12th, 2015, 5:46 pm

codeholic wrote:What's the minimum number of gliders to synthesise Herschel transmitter?

Via traditional method or slow salvo?

Eater 2 variant:
x = 20, y = 25, rule = B3/S23
7bo$6bobo$6bobo$7bo4$15bo$15bo$15bo2$11b3o8$18bo$17bobo$b2o10b2o2b2o$o
2bo10b2o$obo10bo$bo!


Currently looking through the eater bridge eater used in F116 and a few other conduits.

EDIT: Assorted results of varying quality:
x = 3695, y = 351, rule = B3/S23
79$3623b2o$3317b2o304b2o$3317b2o2$3625bo$3320b2o303bo2bo$3320b2o303b3o
4$3333b2o285b2o$3332bo2bo283bo2bo$3333b2o285b2o10b2o$3340bo291b2o$
3339bobo$3320b2o17b2o$3320b2o2$3295bo10bo13bo$3294bo12bo12b2o$3294bo
12bo11bobo$3294bo12bo$3293bo14bo$3293bo14bo$3293bo6b2o6bo$3293bo6b2o6b
o$3293bo14bo$3293bo14bo$3294bo12bo$3294bo12bo$3294bo12bo$3295bo10bo30b
3o10$3509b2o$3490b3o16b2o2$3488bo$3488bo15b2o$3488bo15b2o2$3495bo13b2o
$3489b2o2b2o8bo4bo2bo$3487b2obo11bobo4b2o$3487b2o13bobo$3417b3o68bobo
12bo$3417bobo68bobobo3b2o$3416bo3bo57bo7bob3obo2bobo$3416bo3bo57bo3b3o
b2o7bobo22bo104bo$3416bo3bo57bo3b2o12bo23bo103bobo$3413b2o4bo100bo103b
obo$3422bo202bo$3411bo3bo5bobo$3415bo5bo2bo88bo$3412b2o2bo4bo2bo87bobo
$3403b2o17b3o80bo5bo3bo$3403bobo15bo2bo68bo10b3o4bo2bo120b2o$3404bo4b
2o10bob2o67bobo8bo3bo2b2ob2obo118b2o$3409bobo11bo68bo2bo6b3o3bo2bobo2b
o$3398b2o5bo3bobo81b2o11b3o3bo3bo$3397bo2bo3bobo3b2o95bo115b2o$3397bo
2bo3bobo204b2o9bo2bo$3093b2o303bobo3bo206b2o10b2o$3092bobo303bo2bo2b2o
8b2o$3093bo305bobo2b2obo5bo2b2o63b3o130b2o7b2o$3215bo184b2o2b3o6bo4bo
188b2o6bobo4bo2bo$3214bobo76bobo104bo2b3o7bo4bo60bo5bo120bo2bo3bobo7b
2o$2941bo219bo54b2o76b2o103bo3b3o7bo7b2o56bo5bo121b2o4b2o$2942b2o217bo
50bo3b2o76bo104b2o4bo6b2o6bo2bo55bo5bo18bo$2941b2o2b2o126b2o7b3o76bo
49bo5bo180b2o12b2ob2o2b2ob2o79b3o$2945bobo124bo2bo5bo2bo80b2o43bo83b2o
117bobo5bo59b3o19bo3b3o$2946bo124bobo7b3o81b2o44bo82b2o34bo83bo89bo3bo
$3071bo3bo6bo129b2obo113bobo173b3o$2264bo448b2o356bo2b2o127b2o10bo113b
2o85b3o87bo$2260bo3bo2bo156bo288b2o357bo2bo64bobo60b2o110b2o$2263bo2bo
bo155bo281b2o433b2o172b2o$2261b2o3bo2bo154bo281b2o380b2o51bo5bo$2267b
2o818bobo57b2o495b2o$2426b3o659bo57b2o328bo10b2o24b2o128b2o$3476bo10b
2o24b2o130bo$2266b2o156bo1051bo$2266b2o156bo640b3o6b2o229b2o$2424bo
648bo2bo227bo2bo$3074bobo228b2o20b2o$2712bo362bo251b2o$2712bo$2712bo
223b2o$2935bo2bo$2417b2o279b2o236b2o$2416bo2bo277bobo174bo452b3o$2416b
obo278b2o175bo$2417bo397bo4b2o51b3o74b2o$2815b7o45b2o81b2o$2415bo4bo4b
o390b2obo2bo43bo2bo3bo$2415b2o2bo6bo265bo19bo103b6o45b2o4b2o3b2o$2415b
3obo6bo264b3o17bobo94b3o3bo3b2o58b2o$2413b2obo2bo6bo263bo2b2o5b3o8bobo
94b4ob3o$2415bo4bo4bo263b2o2b2o4bo12bo98bobo4bo$2688bo2bob3o3bo3bo110b
obo2bob2o2b2o$2613b3o72b5obo4bo2b2o104b3o6bob3o3b2o$2689b4o6bo108bo8bo
3bo45b2o$2694bo5bo2bo103b2o3b2o3bo2bo46b2o71b2o$2400b2o290b2obo7b2o
100b2o3b6o2b3o119bobo$2400b2o13b3o118b3o12b2o139b3ob2o2bo2bo102b5ob2o
2bo124b2o$2550bo2bo60bo4b2o73bob2o5b2o101bo3b2o3b2o$2551b2o60bo4b2o74b
ob3o4b2o105bob3o$2416b3o194b3o3bo77b2o5b2o105b2o2b2o$2416bo2bo116bo12b
o149bo116bo$2418b2o112b2ob3o11bo147b3o112bob2o$2155bo376bob4o11bo131b
3o128b2o6b3o$2155bo114b3o259bo2bo79b2o203bo2bo$2155bo15bo98bobo260b2o
2bo7b3o3b3o267b3o$1434b2o734bobo96bo2bo261bob2o72b3obo$1433bo2bo720b3o
10bobo95b4obo259b2obo12bo60b2obo$1434b2o735bo97bo5bo257bo7bo7bo59b2ob
2o3bo99b2o$1424b3o618b3o221bo4bo258bo6bobo6bo58b2o2bo4bo82b2o14bo2bo$
2055bo213b2o145bo123bobo66b2o3bobo58bo24b2o14bo2bo$2054bobo208bo5bo
144bo124b2o67b5obo57bobo32bo7b2o$1422b2o2bobo625bo2bo88b2o117bo150bo
193b2o62bobo31b3o$1420b2o2b3obo2bo623b2o89b2o107bo9bobo5bo3bo397bo31bo
$1422bo3bobo408b3o206b2o119b2o85bob4o16bobo127b3o3b3o3b3o287b2o$1425b
2o5b2o612b2o106bo11bo88bobo4b2o5b2o5bobo391b2o7b2o28bo$1425b2o4b2o416b
2o301b3o11bobo80b3o4bo4b4o5bo6bo138bo123bo128bo2bo5bo2bo29bo$1417b2o4b
2ob2o421b2o294b2o4bo2bo10b2ob2o78bo2bo5bo3b2obo5bo2bo142bo123bo129b2o
7b2o30b3o$1416bobo4b3ob2o3bo280b2o12b3o415b2o4b2o15bo78bo23b3o142bo
123bo171b2o$1416bo9b2o4b2o278bobo319b2o132bo79bo2bo177b2o244bo$1381b2o
34b3obo2bob2o4b2o14b3o262bo11bo5bo302b2o121b2o8b2obo78b3o6b3o168b2o
111b3o129bobo32b2o$1381b2o10bo24bo2bo4bo298bo5bo425b2o11bo85b2o280b2o
134bobo32b2o$1392bobo18b2o7b3o300bo5bo429bo5bob2o83b3o10b2o268bo2bo
134bo7b3o$1393b2o18b2o422bo13b2o202b2o103bobo5b2o83b3obo9b2o269b2o$
1709b2o16b3o106bobo11bo2bo180b2o12b2o111bo6bo83b2o2bo$1371b2o51b2o128b
o98bo55b2o125b2o13b3o174b2o4b2o3bo7bo2bo3b2o195bobob2o$935b2o434b2o49b
o3bo127bo97bobo373bobo7b3o7b2o4bobo104bo89b3ob2o$934bo2bo12b2o471bobo
126b3o81bo15bobo374b2o7bo10bo4bobo94bob3o4b3o90bo2bo3b3o$934bobo13b2o
423b2o24b2o21bo126b2o8b2o72bobo15bo185b2o309b3ob2o2b2o2bo90bob2o2bo2bo
4b2o$935bo291b2o145bo2bo22bo2bo10bo135b2o8bo2bo70b2obo80bo119bo2bo213b
2o9b2o81bo3b2o3bo94b2obo5bo3bobo$957b2o268b2o146b2o24b2o10bobo135b2o7b
obo63bo8bobo10b2o7b2o58b3o119b2o211b5o9b2o80b2ob2o99b2o7bo7b3o$956bo2b
o403bo50b2o21b2o122bo64bo9bo10bo2bo5bo2bo57bo33bo235b3o61b3o95b3o2b3o
95bobo3bo10b3o$957bobo159b3o240b2o3b3o67b2o187bo21b2o7b2o65bo26bo95b2o
3b2o135bo60bob3o99bobo13bo82b2o4b2obobo6b2o$918b3o37bo402bo5bo2bo195b
2o155bobo25bo95b2o5b2o69b3o59b2o60b3o2b2o87bo9bo2b2o12bo83bo7bob2o5bo$
1223bo136b3o3bob2o195bo87bo69bo2bo125bob2o131bo56b2o3bobo3b2o85bobo7b
2ob4o11bo94bo4bo$1222bobo135bo2bob4o80b2o114bo71b2o13bobo69b2o21b3o3b
3o167bo5bo114b2o3b3o2b2o85bo2bo9bo2b2o107bo$1221bobo135bo2b2ob2o4bo76b
o2bo113bo70b2o14bobo197b5o66bo5bo4bo114bobo90b2o8b3o2bo$1221b2o137bob
2obo5bo77b2o115b2o69bobo13bo97bo163b3o5bo5bo4bo116bobobo4bo95bobo10bo$
1361bo9bo45b2o23bo193bo2bo75b3o33bo182bo2bo110b2obobo2bo3bo95b3o10bo$
1417b2o22bobo192bo7bo106bo93b3o77b3o7b2o112b2ob2o2bo3bo4bo103bo$1117b
3o321bobo189b2o9bo409b2o8bobo12b2o$1106b2o9bo3bo320bo190bo2b2o6bo419bo
2bo10bo2bo82b3o$1101bo3bo2bo4bo4bo3bo277b2o231b4o78b3o17b2o196b2o130b
2o7b2o2bo2bo$1100bobo4bobobobo8bo100bo176b2o17b3o211bo2bo98b2o196b2o
53b3o83b2o3b2o90b3o$954b2o144bob2o4bobob2o5bo2bo100bo4b2o188b2o2bo210b
2obo206b2o142bo2bo$474b2o478b2o146b2o3b2o2bo3bo3b2o102bo4b2o178bo9b2o
7bo206b2o111bo95b2o142b3o$474b2o441b3o182b2o2bobo4bo2bo250bo40b3o5b3ob
o2bo3bo319bo401bo10bo$1102b2obo2bo5b2o251bo15bo24b3o5b2o5bo3bo305b2o
12bo396b2o2bobo8bobo$1106b2o260bo4bo9b2o33bo3bo310b2o409b2o2bo2bo7bobo
10bo$465b2o901bo3bobo7b2o34bo2bo649b3o75b2o9bo11bo$465b2o3bo646b2o5b2o
231bo3bo6bo4b2o60bo736bo$470bo471b2o173bobo4b2o230bo5bo24bobo45bo$470b
o471b2o175bo90bobo143b2o4bo24b2o46bo$1086bo30bobo91b2o143bo2bo10b2o16b
o14b2o665b2o$466b3o3b3o610bobo29b2o92bo145b2o6bobo3b2o58b3o3b3o630b2o$
459b3o623bobo273bobobobo5bo11b2o$338bo8b2o111bo9bo614bo126b2o144bo2bob
obobob2o14b2o30b2o16bo$338bo7bo111bobo9bo614b2o29bo6b2o87bobo143b2obob
o4bo26b2o20b2o16bo4bo$338bo6bobob2o107b2o10bo466b3o145b2obo27bo5bo2bo
87bo148bo32b2o38bo4bo$345bobo3bo735b3o7b3o16bo5bo2bobo2bo213b2o11b2o4b
o5b3o68bo$338b2o5b3o3bo142b2o593b2o6bo25b2o2bo216b2o8b2ob2o4bo6bobo$
338bobo4b2o5bo122b2o16b3o2bo584b2o5bo6bobo12b3o9bo5bo221bo2bob2o4bo7bo
$339bo6b3o125bo2bo16b3obo376b2o21b3o182b2o2bo37b5o222bobo12b2o28b3o$
474b2obo17bo4bo236b3o125b3o6bobo210bo3bobobo30bo2bo108b2o113bo13b2o59b
o$346b2o127bob2o20bo375bo8bo202b2ob2obob4obo9b2o15b2o108bo2bo186bobo$
345bo129bo2bo3b2o12bo2bo241bo141b3o55b3o148bo5bobobo7b2o15b2o109b2o
139b2o46bobo$331b4obo8bo2bo101bo25b2o4b2o7bo249bo141b3o208b7o2bo275b2o
47bo$179bo72b2o77b2o2b2o112b3o38bobo9b2o237bo143bo3b2o201bo8b2o20b2o$
179bo71bo2bo80bo2b2obo106bobobo12b3o22bobo9b2o380b3o2b2o45b2o147bo6bo
24b3o2bo2bo$178b3o72b2o80bo4bo6b2o98b2o42bo392b2obo48b2o2b2o141b2o11bo
23bo2b2o$185b2o66b2o81bo3b2o5bo99b2o4bo431bobo52b2o141b2o7bo3bo21b3o$
163b2o11bo3bo3bo2bo61b2o3bo91bobob2o95b2obo2bo21b2o241b2o166b2o195b2ob
o5bo2bo23b2o$162bo2bo11bob2o4b2o62b2o2bobo82b2o5b2ob2obo97bo3bo6bobo6b
3o3b2o20bo123b2o94bobo19b2o131b3o11b2o12bobo182b2o5bob2o20b3o$55bo107b
2o89bobo83bo10b2o101bo4bo2bo33bobo117bobo2bobo94bo4b2o13bo27b2o103bob
2o26b2o191b2o4b3o12bo3bo4b2o$54bo199bo90b5ob2o99bobo5bo2b2o32bo126bo
98b2o12bo3bo24b2o103bo3bo25bo11b2o179bo20bo2bo5b2o$54b3o119bo72b3o3bo
90bob2obo3b3o99b2obo2bobo149b2o4bo114bo5bo129b3o38b2o178bo10bo12bo$48b
2o125bo4bo169bo101b3o5bo2b2o2bo147b2obo6b2o109bo2bob2o129b3o229bo253bo
$48bobob2o116b2o4bo3b2o68b2o209bobob3o5bo13bo129b2ob2o3b2o109bo3bobo
22b2o116bo202b2o16bo252bobo$50bob2o115bo2bo3bo3bo4b2o63b2o205bo2b2o3bo
2b2o3b2o11bobo136b2o110b3obo22bo2bo114bobo19b2o178b4o268bo2bo$49bo119b
o2bo4b2o6b2o271b2o6bo2bo4bobo5b2o3b2o133bo23bo118b2o115b2o19bo2bo23b2o
152b2o29b2o240b2o$50b3obo115bobo180b3o110bo9bobo3b2o13bo125b2obo12b3o
3bobo215b2o30b2o7b2o23bo2bo150bo3bo27b2o$53b2o414bo8b2o16bobo112bo13b
2o18b2o216bobo7bo20bo2bo32b2o152b4o$50b2o415b2o5b2o2bo17b2o112bobo12bo
bo236bo7bo22b2o188bo303b3o$50bo421bob2obo131bo3bo11bobo127b3o353b2o
256b2o$51bo408bo42b2o104bo3bo11bo2bo104b3o4b2o12bo3bo352b2o250b2o4b2o
10b3o$50b2o113bo293bobo9bo2bo24bo3b2o104bo3bo10bo2bo15b2o91bo3b2o12b2o
b2o604b2o$164bobo292b2o37bobo103b2o4bobo12bo16bo2bo87bo2bo$164bobo302b
3o25bo2bo103b2o5bo13b3o9bo5b2o89b2o135b2o74b3o$165bo303bobo25bobo136bo
bo122b2o107bo2bo$481b2o15bo132b2o2bo2bo121b4o106bobo$480bo2bo2bobo141b
obo3b2o82b2o37bo4bo106bo$479b3ob2obob2o21b2o118bo88b2o21b2o13bobo4bo$
478b4ob2o4b2o20b2o230b2o12b2obo3bo$477b3o4b2ob2ob2o132bo23bo109bob3obo
142b2o31bo$476b3obo3b2ob2o3bo131b2o22bo109b2o3bo142bo2bo29bobo$481bo3b
o2bo4bo129bobo22bo111b3o144b2o31bo$480b3o5b3o3bo265b3o187b3o$481bo2b2o
bob3o2b2o389bo$480b3ob2o4bo2b2o390bo$480bo10b3o232b2o157bo$476b2o248bo
bo$474b2ob2o248bo$474bo2bo$474bo3b3o$475b5obo406b2o$478b2obo406b2o$
480bo!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
User avatar
Extrementhusiast
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 12th, 2015, 8:30 pm

I had a little go at this kind of thing in the very early days of Catagolue.

I posted a ten glider recipe for a dead spark coil from a traffic light here. It is based on the very common Interchange + Beehive predecessor.

x = 918, y = 891, rule = B3/S23
913bo$913bo$913bo2$909b3o3b3o2$913bo$913bo$913bo29$885bo$885b2o$884bob
o79$790b3o$792bo$791bo98$692b3o$694bo$693bo85$613bo$613b2o$612bobo99$
518b3o$520bo$519bo98$421b3o$423bo$422bo80$301b2o$300bobo$302bo98$196b
2o$195bobo$197bo98$102b2o$101bobo$103bo98$b2o$obo$2bo!


Here I posted a 6 SL seed for the eater on eater. It comes from a reaction that is about 80% of the way along Extrementhusiast's list.

x = 23, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$11b2o5$2o$2o4bo4b2o$5bobo2bo2bo$5b2o4b2o$21b2o$21b2o$8b2o$8bobo$
9bo$b3o$3bo$2bo!


Here is some stuff that I worked on but don't appear to have posted before...

Slow hat in both orientations from 3 "SL's" plus a 3 glider recipe from 2 "SL's":

x = 222, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
221bo$221bo$221bo7$217bo$217bo$217bo$12bo85bo$12bo85bo114b3o3b3o$12bo
85bo$217bo$217bo$217bo6$10b2o87b2o$9bo2bo85bo2bo$10b2o87b2o$4b2o99b2o$
4bobo97bobo$5bo99bo$194b3o$196bo$195bo3$3o98b3o$2bo100bo$bo100bo12$
180bo$180b2o$179bobo18$159bo$159b2o$158bobo!


Idea for a slow twit that should lead to a working recipe in two of the four orientations:

x = 17, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$10bo2bo$11b2o6$b2o$o2bo$o2bo$b2o$14b3o$14bo$14b3o!


Bookends from 4 "SL's". Extrementhusiast posted something very similar recently, but this variant has the advantage that the bookends appear at the back of the reaction envelope. I remember searching for a way to make bookends pointing in the other direction but I wasn't successful.

x = 16, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$9bo$b2o$obo$2bo7b2o$9bobo$9b2o$14b2o$14b2o$10bo$10bo$10bo!
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby codeholic » April 13th, 2015, 2:20 am

Extrementhusiast wrote:Via traditional method or slow salvo?

With slow salvo, of course. IMHO, "traditional" method becomes less and less important, besides maybe synthesis of spaceships and academic interest. For practical purposes it seems it's always cheaper to build a Spartan circuit directly (with either uni- or bidirectional salvos) rather than constructing an even smaller analogous non-Spartan circuit with freeze-dried salvos.
Extrementhusiast wrote:Eater 2 variant:

Amazing! It opens some options for using Kazyan's Holy Grail in self-constructing circuits! A good recipe for beehive-with-tail is wanted.
Ivan Fomichev
User avatar
codeholic
Moderator
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby codeholic » April 13th, 2015, 2:24 am

chris_c wrote:I posted a ten glider recipe for a dead spark coil from a traffic light here. It is based on the very common Interchange + Beehive predecessor.

Thanks for sharing it again! I missed it on my radar.

I think, time has come to have slow salvo construction section in the infobox on LifeWiki, analogous to the glider synthesis section.
Ivan Fomichev
User avatar
codeholic
Moderator
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby dvgrn » April 13th, 2015, 11:28 am

codeholic wrote:
Extrementhusiast wrote:Via traditional method or slow salvo?

With slow salvo, of course. IMHO, "traditional" method becomes less and less important, besides maybe synthesis of spaceships and academic interest. For practical purposes it seems it's always cheaper to build a Spartan circuit directly (with either uni- or bidirectional salvos) rather than constructing an even smaller analogous non-Spartan circuit with freeze-dried salvos.
Extrementhusiast wrote:Eater 2 variant:

Amazing! It opens some options for using Kazyan's Holy Grail in self-constructing circuits! A good recipe for beehive-with-tail is wanted.

It moves the problem into the "technically possible" category, anyway. Until a slow-salvo eater2 shows up that's at the back edge of its reaction envelope, it doesn't seem to me that it will make any sense to build syringes with slow salvos.

The syringe variant that can use an eater2 variant (yellow, below) is already 13 still lifes -- including the eater2, but not counting the five objects in the eater2 seed, and also not counting cleanup for the half-dozen junk objects left over when the construction is complete.

Code: Select all
x = 73, y = 54, rule = LifeHistory
67.C$67.C.C$54.E12.2C$13.2E39.3E$13.E43.E$14.E41.2E$13.2E32.3B21.2E$
71.E$45.B5.B16.2E.E$45.B5.B15.E2.E$45.B2.D2.B16.2E$38.2E7.D.D3.2E$10.
2E26.2E7.CBC3.2E$10.2E36.D3$43.3B$56.D$56.D$40.2E3.A2.A.2A4.D$2E38.E.
E2.4A.2A$E41.E9.3D$.3E11.2E25.2E3.2A.2A$3.E11.2E23.2B6.A.A$40.2B6.A.A
10.2E$49.A11.2E$29.2E25.2B$29.E26.2B$30.3E$32.E11.2B13.D$19.2E23.2B
12.D.D$20.E21.2D8.2B4.2D$17.3E21.D2.D6.B2.B$17.E23.D.D8.2B$42.D17$34.
2D$35.2D$34.D!
[[ HEIGHT 240 ]]

(The other orientation of the eater2 also works, but seems much trickier to clean up even than this one, assuming that the trigger glider is coming from the same direction as the construction gliders.)

A couple of blocks would have to be constructed after the eater2. The hive-with-tail seems to be safely out of the way, along with one of the other eaters. The eater very close to the eater2 would be a bit tricky.

By contrast, a Silver reflector (or G-to-H) is only about 20 still lifes, and they're all well-separated and really easy to slow-construct incrementally in any orientation. Unfortunately I think we're stuck with Silver reflectors in self-constructing circuitry until someone comes up with a Spartan G-to-H.

EDIT:
codeholic wrote:I think, time has come to have slow salvo construction section in the infobox on LifeWiki, analogous to the glider synthesis section.

The only tricky part about listing slow-salvo construction on the LifeWiki is that the slow salvo with the smallest number of gliders probably won't be anywhere near the most useful slow salvo for a given object. Really we want to collect, usually, two or four completely different slow-salvo constructions -- one that can put each orientation of the object at the very back edge of its construction envelope.

It can also be worth collecting recipes that can drop the object at (or near) a lateral edge of the construction envelope -- for non-symmetric objects, it will probably be a different recipe at each edge again. Even that might not always be enough: there might be a really useful recipe where Object X shows up nowhere near the NW or NE edges of the construction envelope, but it's right on the N boundary. In general the metric for usefulness seems to be the number of cells from Object X to the nearest boundary of untouched space.

This all seems like a painful amount of detail to try to fit into a LifeWiki info box.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby simsim314 » April 13th, 2015, 5:59 pm

The eater2 variation could also fit into the boojum reflector (where it place on the edge):

x = 45, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
4bobo6b2o$5b2o6b2o$5bo7$40bo$39bobo$39bobo$20b2o16b2ob2o$20b2o$38b2ob
4o$2b2o34b2obo2bo$bobo$bo$2o2$34b2o$34b2o4b2o$11b2o27bobo$10bobo29bo$
10bo31b2o$9b2o23b2o$34b2o3$29bo$28bobo$29bo!


Obviously not as good as syringe, but still only around 200 ticks for recovery. Might be useful for opposite collisions.
User avatar
simsim314
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby dvgrn » April 13th, 2015, 11:30 pm

simsim314 wrote:The eater2 variation could also fit into the boojum reflector (where it place on the edge).

The boojum reflector is eight still lifes, plus the five initial objects for the eater2 seed, plus an unfortunate amount of cleanup, since the order of construction of the boojum reflector would be somewhat constrained by the junk left over from the eater2 construction. Again we're already at least three-quarters of the way to the cost of a Silver reflector. I hate to say this, since I always like to find uses for the old boojum reflector... but there just aren't very many good uses any more.

Looks like in either of the two possible orientations, the two blocks and eater at the far end of the boojum reflector would have to be constructed after the eater2, reaching around the corner behind the eater2 in either case. Reaching around corners is not impossible, but it does tend to be tricky, expensive, and just plain headache-inducing.

So a slow-salvo recipe for a boojum reflector will require a lot of customized cleverness, different for each of four different orientations. (If you have a recipe for one orientation, you also have its diagonal mirror-image, but not its 90- or 180-degree rotations.)

Silver reflectors are equally capable of doing 180-degree reflections, with a much better separation between input glider and output glider. And they're trivial to slow-construct in any orientation. That's really pretty hard to beat, I'm afraid.

Eater2s are also part of several other handy pieces of non-Spartan circuitry, like the H-to-2G transparent inserter used in a lot of the recent pseudo-period guns. The thing is, they're not absolutely indispensable anywhere. So until slow-salvo recipes are found that make eater2s just as easy to use as Spartan still lifes -- i.e., an edge-of-envelope recipe for four different orientations, at a minimum, and more recipes would be better -- then I just can't see the point of worrying about engineering eater2s into self-constructing circuitry.

Anyone is welcome to do all that work, of course, and come up with a complete construction recipe for something. But with current eater2 recipes, I'd be pretty surprised if there's any functional self-constructing circuit with eater2s in it, that can't be replaced by an equivalent Spartan circuit at the same total slow-salvo construction cost. Usually the Spartan circuit will probably cost a little less, and certainly not much more.

Or... if the circuit in question isn't self-constructing, is there any particular reason to construct it with slow salvos? Are there any designs that need constructible circuitry that are not self-constructing?
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby codeholic » April 14th, 2015, 12:28 am

dvgrn wrote:Or... if the circuit in question isn't self-constructing, is there any particular reason to construct it with slow salvos? Are there any designs that need constructible circuitry that is not self-constructing?

Over-linearly growing patterns is another obvious application, like Paul Tooke's SSS breeder.
Ivan Fomichev
User avatar
codeholic
Moderator
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: September 13th, 2011, 8:23 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby simsim314 » April 14th, 2015, 3:17 am

dvgrn wrote: I just can't see the point of worrying about engineering eater2s into self-constructing circuitry.


The reason is simple. Silver defines not only the cost of SL, but also the separation between gliders. That means Silver reflector recovery time defines the distance between two gliders in the data stream to be ~400 ticks. Now if instead we use syringe we will have ~70 ticks of recovery, and in the same space/time will have X5 more gliders i.e. more information coded in denser glider stream.

Every slow salvo recipe will just work 5 times faster, and that means that Silver's cost should be count as SL count (or more precisely slow salvo glider synth count) X 400 ticks (glider/tick). And syringe cost should be count as #SLX70.

That means if we take replication time as the final goal, syringe with eater2 will replicate 5 times faster, i.e. allowing much "uglier" solutions and larger SL counts for any particular problem.
User avatar
simsim314
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby dvgrn » April 14th, 2015, 12:17 pm

simsim314 wrote:Every slow salvo recipe will just work 5 times faster, and that means that Silver's cost should be count as SL count (or more precisely slow salvo glider synth count) X 400 ticks (glider/tick). And syringe cost should be count as #SLX70.

That means if we take replication time as the final goal, syringe with eater2 will replicate 5 times faster, i.e. allowing much "uglier" solutions and larger SL counts for any particular problem.

Yes, I keep going back and forth about this. If there was something like a million-dollar prize for the replicator that completed a replication cycle in the smallest number of ticks, then this all makes complete sense.

The winning design might be a fairly complicated multi-channel device with multiple construction arms running in parallel. That way you could build not just with slow 90-degree glider pairs, but with maybe six or eight gliders colliding at a time. Maybe there would be dedicated programmable shotguns that could build a syringe, let's say, or some complex piece of general-purpose logic circuitry, at very high speed.

-----------------------------------------

An idea that Paul Chapman came up with a decade ago was to build an entire replicator out of a single standardized part, as much as possible -- imagine some arrangement of different orientations of glider reflectors, so that you could get a left or right or 180-degree reflection, or various kinds of logic gates, just by sending gliders in at different locations. Then the construction instructions would be relatively tiny -- just a list of all the different locations to place these Big Logic Gate Things. Could probably store that list in a static tape instead of a circulating loop.

-- It seems like a nice idea until you start to try to implement it. One of the problems is that you still have to store the recipe for a Big Logic Gate Thing somewhere somehow, probably in a circulating glider loop.

Anyway, that design is aimed more at simplifying and compartmentalizing the construction data, rather than minimizing the total number of ticks needed to replicate. After I thought about it for a while, neither of those design goals seemed like the most useful one.

-----------------------------------------

The problem with a cost metric like (number-of-still-lifes x ticks-per-glider) is twofold:

1) If a recipe is five times as complex, then (as a rough rule of thumb) the pattern will actually run in Golly at about a fifth of the speed. Tighter-packed patterns tend to fill up memory with more different hashtiles, so if there are more gliders in the recipe loop, Golly will have to do more work. Just as a practical consideration with the simulation software that we have at the moment, the signal-packing gains are roughly balanced out by the slower simulation speed.

2) These theoretical tightly-packed recipes with five times as many gliders seem to be at least five times harder to design and troubleshoot, in practice, than the simple Spartan U.C. designs. We have the Gemini, the linear propagator, the spiral-growth pattern, and some progress toward a Demonoid spaceship and a quadratic-growth replicator. Nobody has actually managed to design any useful self-constructing circuitry containing eater2s or other similar large still lifes, just because it's a significantly harder problem.

For example, it's a lot of work to find the minimal recipe for eight different orientations of a boojum reflector... and even more work to find an actual use for a boojum reflector in self-constructing circuitry, especially since it doesn't even allow a factor-of-three improvement in compression over Silver reflectors. The final payoff for adding boojum-reflector construction capability might be a reduction in replication time of just 20%, or 10%, or 1% or no improvement at all.

A Spartan Snark, or a really nice slow-salvo or glider-pair construction of the current Snark, or even better a Spartan G-to-H, would change the cost calculation really significantly. Until then, it seems like it would take an order of magnitude more research time to put together a design that would be many times more complex (in terms of number of gliders in the recipe)... and it will only end up running at the same speed or slower in Golly anyway, never mind what the generation count says.

I may be overly biased by my own particular experience, of course! Of the three linear propagator patterns, the slowest version in terms of number of ticks to replicate is the one that runs fastest in Golly, by far.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby simsim314 » April 14th, 2015, 4:02 pm

I think that a target function of running fast in golly is not super good idea, and here is why:

1. Instead of (or in parallel to) trying to fit our patterns into golly, we need to improve golly to work better with our patterns. For example some algorithm that knows how to represent gliders logically will be a game changer.

2. It's not "stable" target. As new programs come out and golly improves, we can get different run times. We should have target functions which are based in GOL properties itself - but I do agree that golly can give us clue of what function to chose, although I can't agree the function should be based on golly alone. Something like cell count, bounding box, replication time can all be considered as potential factors, that obviously limit any algorithm performance.

3. I can imagine very dense SL populated self replicating pattern with moderate bounding box, that could be fast in golly as SLs benefit most from HashLife. So if we chose some in between target function: total sum of number of changed cells from generation to the next for the whole replication loop (ans say ignoring p2s), we could optimize the calculation intensity while still keeping GOL oriented target function (the least cells change from generation i to i + 1 the better most of optimization algorithms will work).

4. A while back I've started the effort of creating logical editors. Maybe instead of designing all the big patterns by hand as we do today, we should think of developing something like "logical design studio", with many tools to simplify the design of large patterns. For very large patterns designing tools could be a simpler goal than the design of the patterns themselves. Although the effort is of different nature.

5. As a side note: X5 faster replication time with X2 complexity will work faster in golly in total as the intensity of calculation should also be multiplied by replication cycle. So assuming we make X2 more calculation in each generation because we replicate five times faster we still get improvement of X2.5. And I'm not sure that I'm convinced that using syringe will increase the complexity by factor of 2 over the complexity of Silver based designs.

The difference between this claim, and the experience with linear replicators, is that linear replicators were gaining factor of 2 at most with some complexity costs, while here we start from X5.

6. I do agree that boojum is not good enough here as its recovery is not fast enough. I also agree that it would be much better to have all 8 orientations and cleaner eater2 synths.
User avatar
simsim314
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 14th, 2015, 9:25 pm

This is my attempt at making the syringe variant in all four orientations using the eater 2 seed. Compatible recipes for the eater 1 that is nearest to the eater 2 are shown on the second row for three out of the four orientations. The only thing I am unsure about is how to make the eater 1 in the fourth orientation and how to make the beehive-with-tails.

This was certainly headache-inducing to put together but I think the cost of the recipes is pretty decent.

x = 2022, y = 1079, rule = LifeHistory
874.D$872.3D39.2D$871.D43.D$871.2D41.D$856.2D56.2D$857.D$857.D.2D$
858.D2.D$859.2D19.A481.D$874.2D3.A.A7.2D471.3D$874.2D3.A.A7.2D26.2D
446.D$880.A36.2D445.2D$1377.D4.2A595.A$1375.3D3.A2.A593.A.A23.D$1374.
D7.A.A577.3A12.A2.A21.3D$425.D948.2D7.A594.2A21.D$384.2D39.3D443.3A
521.2D9.2D552.A5.A34.2D$384.D43.D448.2D.D2.D3.2D506.D10.2D552.A5.A22.
D$385.D41.2D446.A.2D.4D2.D.D38.2D419.D11.2D31.D.D7.2A555.A5.A22.3D$
384.2D56.2D431.A10.D41.D417.3D11.2D25.2D2.3D.2D5.A2.A586.D$442.D432.A
.2D.2D3.2D25.2D11.3D417.D41.D2.D12.2A557.3A26.2D$439.2D.D435.D.D31.2D
11.D419.2D38.D.D3.3D.2D562.2D11.D$438.D2.D424.2D10.D.D504.2D6.D.2D
562.2D10.D.D$419.A19.2D425.2D11.D1091.D.D31.2D11.D$409.2D7.A.A3.2D
472.2D493.3A574.2D.2D3.2D25.2D11.3D$381.2D26.2D7.A.A3.2D473.D1067.3A
9.D41.D$381.2D36.A476.3D498.A572.2D.4D2.D.D38.2D$868.3A25.D485.3A12.A
567.A4.2D.D2.D3.2D$908.2D445.2D40.A567.A$866.A5.A12.2A21.D446.2D23.A
2.2D.A11.2D565.A$427.A438.A5.A11.A2.A21.3D468.A2.2D.A11.2D$427.A438.A
5.A12.A.A23.D468.A5.A26.2D$411.2D3.D2.D.2D4.A458.A525.D2.D$371.2D38.D
.D2.4D.2D445.3A511.3A28.2D.D556.A36.2D$371.D41.D9.3A990.D550.2D3.A.A
7.2D26.2D$372.3D11.2D25.2D3.2D.2D10.2A923.2D56.2D549.2D3.A.A7.2D$374.
D11.2D31.D.D11.2A924.D41.2D549.2D19.A$419.D.D10.2D924.D43.D548.D2.D$
420.D11.2D924.2D39.3D548.D.2D$400.2D997.D550.D$400.D1548.2D56.2D$401.
3D1560.2D41.D$403.D26.A1533.D43.D$390.2D37.A.A1533.3D39.2D$391.D21.2A
14.2A1536.D$388.3D21.A2.A$388.D23.A.A$413.A3$1923.A$839.A1083.2A$839.
2A1081.A.A$838.A.A6$1360.2A$1361.2A$1360.A5$403.A$403.2A$402.A.A5$
1334.2A$1335.2A$1334.A$1907.3A$825.A1083.A$825.2A1081.A$824.A.A15$
801.3A1080.3A$803.A1082.A$802.A515.2A565.A$1317.A.A$1319.A46$1266.2A$
1265.A.A$753.3A511.A$755.A$754.A8$1847.2A$1846.A.A$737.3A1108.A$739.A
$738.A515.2A$1253.A.A$1255.A$300.A$300.2A$299.A.A2$1232.2A$1231.A.A$
1233.A6$1826.A$1826.2A$1825.A.A3$730.3A$732.A486.2A$731.A486.A.A$
1220.A2$270.A$270.2A$269.A.A6$686.3A27.3A$688.A29.A$687.A29.A1088.2A$
1805.A.A$1807.A11$240.A$240.2A$239.A.A432.3A$676.A542.2A$675.A542.A.A
$1220.A10$1202.2A$658.3A540.A.A$660.A542.A$659.A3$1778.2A$1777.A.A$
1779.A8$1188.2A$1187.A.A$225.A963.A$225.2A$224.A.A21$167.A$167.2A$
166.A.A10$197.A1545.2A$197.2A1543.A.A$196.A.A1545.A9$147.3A$149.A$
148.A6$1732.2A$1731.A.A$1733.A11$128.3A$130.A$129.A11$104.A$104.2A
1548.3A$103.A.A1550.A$1655.A19$1635.3A$1637.A$1636.A12$70.A$70.2A$69.
A.A3$1614.3A$1616.A$1615.A21$1596.3A$1598.A$1597.A4$50.2A$49.A.A$51.A
4$1569.3A$1571.A$1570.A8$19.2A$18.A.A$20.A21$1542.A$1542.2A$1541.A.A
5$.2A$A.A$2.A26$1490.3A$1492.A$1491.A8$1505.3A$1507.A$1506.A159$823.
2A.A2.A$429.A2.A.2A387.2A.4A$429.4A.2A$823.2A.2A$431.2A.2A388.A.A$
432.A.A389.A.A$432.A.A390.A$416.2A15.A$416.2A888.2A$1306.A$1290.2A12.
A.A$837.2A451.2A10.3A.2A$837.2A462.A$1302.3A.2A$1304.A.2A8$405.3A$
407.A$406.A$1270.2A$1269.A.A$1271.A8$817.2A$816.A.A$818.A15$377.3A$
379.A$378.A18$1220.2A$1219.A.A$1221.A8$347.3A$349.A$348.A3$767.2A$
766.A.A$768.A23$305.2A$306.2A$305.A$1170.2A$1169.A.A$1171.A20$717.2A$
716.A.A$718.A3$272.2A$273.2A$272.A23$1120.A$1120.2A$1119.A.A3$252.2A$
253.2A$252.A$667.A$667.2A$666.A.A25$213.3A$215.A$214.A16$1070.2A$
1069.A.A$1071.A8$617.A$617.2A$205.2A409.A.A$206.2A$205.A35$1020.2A$
1019.A.A$1021.A23$567.A$567.2A$566.A.A27$517.2A$516.A.A$518.A$970.2A$
969.A.A$971.A51$467.2A$466.A.A451.A$468.A451.2A$919.A.A58$417.2A$416.
A.A$418.A!
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby dvgrn » April 14th, 2015, 9:33 pm

simsim314 wrote:I think that a target function of running fast in golly is not super good idea, and here is why:

1. Instead of (or in parallel to) trying to fit our patterns into golly, we need to improve golly to work better with our patterns. For example some algorithm that knows how to represent gliders logically will be a game changer.

2. It's not "stable" target. As new programs come out and golly improves, we can get different run times...

I do agree with most of this, at least in part. There are some relatively simple improvements that would make the linear propagator patterns run much faster... here's a chunk of offline correspondence with Tom Rokicki recently:

dvgrn wrote:I'm really much more fascinated by the idea of keeping the number of hashtiles down by setting up a nonstandard simulation geometry. SE-traveling gliders in the recipe stream(s) never interact directly with NW-traveling gliders, so there's really no point in keeping them on the same hashtile. So if every newly-generated SE recipe glider could be automagically tessarected a million ticks to the right, and every NW glider could be teleported a million ticks to the left, Golly could suddenly simulate Gemini like blue blazes.

It's a horribly inelegant pattern-specific thing to do, of course. Making the idea into a generalizable improvement to Golly would require an algorithm that did a lot of pattern inspection and essentially proved theorems on the fly about the interaction of various pieces of the pattern. Not really an idea I want to pursue very far -- I'd be much happier with the assignment of putting together patterns that would break any such algorithm, than working out the algorithm itself.

Anyway, I agree that it's a little silly to have the only target criterion be how fast a pattern runs in Golly. On the other hand, for the quadratic-growth replicator, silly or not, that's the main cvriterion I'm going to use. I don't so much agree that Golly, or rather Hashlife, is really such an unstable target.

This July will be the tenth anniversary of the release of the original version of Golly. The basic Hashlife algorithm hasn't changed at all in the last decade (or, really, since the algorithm's invention two decades before that) -- and I haven't heard of anybody really stepping up to seriously tackle the problem of improving it. A pattern that runs well in Gosper's original hashlife program would be just as efficient in Golly 2.6, and vice versa. Thirty years going on forty looks stable enough for me...!

simsim314 wrote:3. I can imagine very dense SL populated self replicating pattern with moderate bounding box, that could be fast in golly as SLs benefit most from HashLife.

I can imagine it, too, and I imagine it would be a complete nightmare do the design work for it (at least for me). The closer everything is together, the harder it is to adjust anything. So I'm going to strongly recommend that somebody else should definitely figure it all out, and I'll be very very impressed when it's done.

Meanwhile, like the guy looking for his [eyeglasses|wallet|keys] on the wrong street because that's where the streetlights are, I'm going to stick with self-constructing design projects where I have some hope of not getting hopelessly lost before they're complete. Worrying about synthesizing syringes and such looks like a long step in the wrong direction on the design complexity curve.

So I think it's worth dodging most of those problems, at least until a first-draft quadratic-growth replicator is done, or until much better design tools are available (which I'm also very much in favor of, but unlikely to work much on myself). Somebody can always build a smaller replicator later to address the shortcomings of the first one...!

EDIT: I think chris_c has made a really good case elsewhere, same link as above, for Herschel transmitters being an exception to the old Spartan rule. We have decent recipes now for all orientations of the dead spark coil -- no serious build-order problems at all.

So now the mysteriously unsolved problem is how to put together a universal constructor with a Herschel transceiver, that's a clear improvement on the Spartan alternative. Repeat time below 120, Herschel splitters available at repeat time 204, or you can have cheap reflectors at the cost of doubling the number of gliders per signal for every semi-Snark in a chain of reflectors. That could be a definite improvement, except the repeat time gets worse again as you increase the number of gliders...!
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 15th, 2015, 7:12 pm

I firmed up my plans for slow syringe synthesis. In the pattern below each row represents a path towards the slow construction of a syringe in a particular orientation. Yellow cells are cells that have already been built. Green cells are cells that are required for the current stage of the synthesis. Red cells are cells that will be built in the future.

The hardest orientation was definitely the last one since it required a cascade of 3 eaters to be constructed "out of order". The first two eaters are constructed by an engineered recipe based on this predecessor "3o4$2bo$b2o$o$2o!". If anyone knows of a better method please disclose. All of the other eater recipes were from dvgrn's Glue dump here.

x = 1340, y = 2893, rule = LifeHistory
613.E$572.2D39.3E$572.D43.E$573.D41.2E$572.2D56.2E$630.E242.E$627.2E.
E201.2D39.3E$626.E2.E202.D43.E$607.A19.2E204.D41.2E$597.2D7.A.A3.2D
218.2D56.2E$569.2D26.2D7.A.A3.2D276.E$569.2D36.A279.2E.E$886.E2.E$
887.2E$857.2A13.2E$615.A213.2D26.2A13.2E$615.A213.2D$599.2D3.D2.D.2D
4.A$559.2D38.D.D2.4D.2D$559.D41.D9.3A$560.3D11.2D25.2D3.2D.2D10.2A$
562.D11.2D31.D.D11.2A$607.D.D10.2D237.2D3.E2.E.2E$608.D11.2D197.2D38.
D.D2.4E.2E$588.2D229.D41.D$588.D231.3D11.2D25.2D3.2E.2E$589.3D230.D
11.2D31.E.E$591.D26.A248.E.E10.2E$578.2D37.A.A231.2A15.E11.2E$579.D
21.2A14.2A229.2D.2A$576.3D21.A2.A244.D$576.D23.A.A246.3D$601.A249.D$
838.2D$839.D$836.3D$836.D35$571.A$571.2A$570.A.A30$780.3A$782.A$781.A
28$752.3A$754.A$753.A13$488.A$488.2A$487.A.A13$722.3A$724.A$723.A5$
458.A$458.2A$457.A.A21$428.A251.2A$428.2A251.2A$427.A.A250.A28$647.2A
$648.2A$647.A$413.A$413.2A$412.A.A21$355.A$355.2A$354.A.A2$627.2A$
628.2A$627.A6$385.A$385.2A$384.A.A9$335.3A$337.A$336.A9$588.3A$590.A$
589.A8$316.3A$318.A$317.A11$292.A$292.2A$291.A.A5$580.2A$581.2A$580.A
27$258.A$258.2A$257.A.A32$238.2A$237.A.A$239.A14$207.2A$206.A.A$208.A
28$189.2A$188.A.A$190.A389$824.D$822.3D39.2E$490.D330.D43.E$488.3D39.
2E289.2D41.E$487.D43.E274.2D56.2E$487.2D41.E276.D$472.2D56.2E275.D.2D
$473.D334.D2.D$473.D.2D332.2D$474.D2.D346.2E13.2E$475.2D19.A327.2E13.
2E26.2E$490.2D3.A.A7.2E360.2E228.2A$490.2D3.A.A7.2E26.2E562.2A$496.A
36.2E575.D$1108.3D39.2E$1107.D43.E$1107.2D41.E$827.2E.E2.E3.2D253.2D
56.2E$487.3A337.2E.4E2.D.D38.2E214.D$493.2D.D2.D3.2D331.D41.E214.D.2D
$491.A.2D.4D2.D.D38.2E282.2E.2E3.2D25.2E11.3E216.D2.D$491.A10.D41.E
283.E.E31.2E11.E219.2D$491.A.2D.2D3.2D25.2E11.3E272.2D10.E.E279.2E13.
2E$494.D.D31.2E11.E274.2D11.E280.2E13.2E26.2E$482.2D10.D.D351.2D303.
2E$482.2D11.D353.D$514.2D330.3D$515.D330.D$512.3D326.2A15.2D$484.3A
25.D328.2A15.D$524.2D333.3D251.2E.E2.E3.2E$482.A5.A12.2A21.D336.D251.
2E.4E2.E.E38.2E$482.A5.A11.A2.A21.3D594.E41.E$482.A5.A12.A.A23.D585.
2E.2E3.2E25.2E11.3E$502.A611.E.E31.2E11.E$484.3A615.2D10.E.E$1102.2D
11.E$1134.2D$1135.D$1132.3D$1132.D$1144.2D$1144.D$1145.3D$1147.D9$
455.A$455.2A$454.A.A17$801.2A$800.A.A$802.A5$441.A$441.2A$440.A.A15$
417.3A$419.A$418.A6$771.2A$770.A.A$772.A5$1001.3A$1003.A$1002.A21$
741.2A$740.A.A$742.A5$980.3A$982.A$981.A5$369.3A$371.A$370.A2$711.A$
711.2A$710.A.A6$353.3A$355.A$354.A9$943.3A$945.A$944.A9$346.3A$348.A$
347.A3$681.A$681.2A$680.A.A6$332.3A$334.A$333.A4$923.3A$925.A$924.A
23$656.A$656.2A$274.A380.A.A$274.2A$273.A.A$885.2A$886.2A$885.A7$621.
2A$620.A.A$622.A3$249.3A$251.A$250.A14$851.3A$853.A$852.A4$234.A$234.
2A$233.A.A7$591.2A$590.A.A$592.A8$211.3A$213.A$212.A3$822.3A$824.A$
823.A26$177.3A$179.A$178.A606.3A$556.2A229.A$555.A.A228.A$557.A505$
322.D$322.3D$325.D276.D$324.2D276.3D$337.D4.2A261.D$335.3D3.A2.A259.
2D$334.D7.A.A272.D$334.2D7.A271.3D$355.2D9.2D246.D$355.D10.2D246.2D$
308.D11.2D31.D.D7.2A270.2E9.2E$306.3D11.2D25.2D2.3D.2D5.A2.A269.E10.
2E$305.D41.D2.D12.2A223.D11.2D17.2A12.E.E$305.2D38.D.D3.3D.2D229.3D
11.2D17.2A6.2D2.3E.2E$345.2D6.D.2D228.D41.D2.E$585.2D38.D.D3.3E.2E$
353.3A269.2D6.E.2E2$357.A$342.3A12.A$315.2D40.A$315.2D23.A2.2D.A11.2D
$340.A2.2D.A11.2D235.2D$340.A5.A26.2D220.2D26.2D13.2D$372.D2.D247.2D
13.2D$342.3A28.2D.D276.2D$376.D275.D2.D$318.2D56.2D275.2D.D$319.D41.
2D293.D$318.D43.D235.2D56.2D$318.2D39.3D237.D41.2D$359.D238.D43.D$
598.2D39.3D$639.D14$579.2A$578.A.A$580.A2$320.2A$321.2A$320.A12$294.
2A$295.2A$294.A17$539.2A$538.A.A$540.A2$278.2A$277.A.A$279.A37$489.2A
$488.A.A$490.A7$226.2A$225.A.A$227.A14$214.2A$213.A.A$215.A5$192.2A$
191.A.A$193.A12$179.2A$178.A.A$180.A4$439.A$439.2A$438.A.A51$389.2A$
388.A.A$390.A31$111.2A$110.A.A$112.A14$339.2A$338.A.A$340.A2$91.2A$
90.A.A$92.A20$73.2A$72.A.A$74.A25$42.A$42.2A$41.A.A2$289.2A$288.A.A$
290.A12$28.A$28.2A$27.A.A38$239.A$239.2A$238.A.A391$489.A$488.A.A23.D
$472.3A12.A2.A21.3D$488.2A21.D$470.A5.A34.2D313.D234.D260.D$470.A5.A
22.D324.3D232.3D258.3D$470.A5.A22.3D321.D234.D260.D$502.D320.2D233.2D
259.2D$472.3A26.2D308.D234.D260.E20.2A$469.2D11.D328.3D232.3D258.3E
18.2A$469.2D10.D.D330.D234.D260.E$481.D.D4.D26.2D11.D284.2D233.2D13.
2A244.2E$480.2D.2D3.3D24.2D11.3D250.2D11.E221.2D11.E33.2A212.2D11.E$
477.3A11.D39.D249.2D10.E.E220.2D10.E.E246.2D10.E.E$480.2D.4D3.2D38.2D
261.E.E4.D26.2D11.D187.E.E4.E26.2D11.D213.E.E4.E26.2D11.D$475.A4.2D.D
2.D305.2E.2E3.3D24.2D11.3D184.2E.2E3.3E24.2D11.3D210.2E.2E3.3E24.2D
11.3D$475.A327.D39.D194.E39.D220.E39.D$475.A316.2E.4E3.2D13.2A23.2D
183.2E.4E3.2E38.2D209.2E.4E3.2E38.2D$792.2E.E2.E18.2A208.2E.E2.E254.
2E.E2.E3$483.A36.2D$477.2D3.A.A7.2D26.2D$477.2D3.A.A7.2D$462.2D19.A
348.2D233.2D259.2D$461.D2.D324.2D13.2D26.2D190.2D13.2D26.2D216.2D13.
2D26.2D$460.D.2D325.2D13.2D218.2D13.2D244.2D13.2D$460.D313.2D233.2D
259.2D$459.2D56.2D254.D2.D231.D2.D257.D2.D$474.2D41.D254.D.2D231.D.2D
257.D.2D$474.D43.D253.D234.D260.D$475.3D39.2D252.2D56.2D175.2D56.2D
201.2D56.2D$477.D308.2D41.D191.2D41.D217.2D41.D$786.D43.D190.D43.D
216.D43.D$787.3D39.2D191.3D39.2D217.3D39.2D$789.D234.D260.D3$433.A$
433.2A$432.A.A24$417.3A$419.A$418.A16$394.3A$396.A$395.A15$730.3A$
732.A$731.A7$961.3A268.3A$963.A270.A$962.A270.A3$713.2A$714.2A$713.A
7$944.2A$945.2A$944.A10$694.2A$695.2A$694.A2$1209.3A$1211.A$1210.A3$
925.2A$357.2A567.2A$356.A.A566.A$358.A11$677.2A$678.2A$677.A4$336.A$
336.2A$335.A.A$908.2A$909.2A$908.A253.3A$1164.A$1163.A13$316.2A$315.A
.A$317.A13$1132.2A$1133.2A$1132.A15$616.3A$618.A$288.2A327.A$287.A.A$
289.A5$847.3A$849.A$848.A2$1099.2A$1100.2A$1099.A10$600.2A$601.2A$
600.A7$831.2A$832.2A$831.A7$1070.2A$1071.2A$1070.A2$583.3A$585.A$253.
2A329.A$252.A.A$254.A5$814.3A$816.A$815.A$555.3A$557.A$556.A7$242.2A
542.3A$241.A.A544.A$243.A543.A3$1056.2A$1057.2A$1056.A20$164.3A$166.A
$165.A6$1018.3A$1020.A$1019.A11$145.3A$147.A$146.A341.3A$490.A$489.A
7$719.3A$721.A$720.A4$993.3A$995.A$124.3A867.A$126.A$125.A8$476.3A$
478.A$477.A7$707.3A$709.A$708.A2$106.3A$108.A$107.A3$963.3A$965.A$
964.A3$458.3A$460.A$79.3A377.A$81.A$80.A5$689.3A$691.A$690.A7$439.A$
439.2A$438.A.A7$670.A$670.2A$669.A.A6$52.A$52.2A351.A$51.A.A351.2A$
404.A.A7$636.A$636.2A$635.A.A23$3A$2.A$.A8$15.3A$17.A$16.A!


EDIT: Oh... I forgot to mention that I still have no concrete plans for making the beehive-with-tails. Can anyone come up with a nice method?
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » April 15th, 2015, 9:00 pm

Two different possibilities for three different areas:
x = 73, y = 34, rule = LifeHistory
67.C$67.C.C$54.A12.2C$11.D3.2A37.3A$11.3DA.A40.A$14.C41.2A$13.2C56.2A
$71.A$68.2A.A$67.A2.A$68.2A$38.2A13.2A$10.2A26.2A13.2A$10.2A6$45.A2.A
.2A$ACD37.2A3.4A.2A$AD.D36.A2D$.2AC11.2A24.C2A3.2A.2A$3.CD10.2A25.DCD
3.A.A$44.D3.A.A10.2A$6.D42.A11.2A$29.2A$8.D20.A$30.3A$10.D21.A$19.2A$
20.A$17.3A$17.A!


chris_c wrote:EDIT: Oh... I forgot to mention that I still have no concrete plans for making the beehive-with-tails. Can anyone come up with a nice method?

I'll look through the soups.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
User avatar
Extrementhusiast
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby biggiemac » April 15th, 2015, 9:21 pm

Pi + 3 Blocks -> Beehive with tail, but the pi is inconvenient (I don't know all the pi-makers but the G+block doesn't work at least):
x = 17, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2b2o$6bobo$6bobo$6b3o$15b2o$15b2o$2o$2o!

Could at least be a good starting point.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
User avatar
biggiemac
 
Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » April 15th, 2015, 10:05 pm

Two variations of another possible seed:
x = 10, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$b2o4b2o$7b2o4$2b3o$2bo2bo$4b2o$8b2o$8b2o20$3bo$2bobo$2bo2bo$
3b2o4$6b2o$4bo2bo$4b3o12$2b2o$2b2o4$b2o$b2o$5b2o$5b2o!


There is also this converter:
x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
2o$bo$bobo$2b2o$5bo$5bo$5bo$6bo!
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
User avatar
Extrementhusiast
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby biggiemac » April 16th, 2015, 3:30 am

Slow seeds (with weak attempt at cleanup) for hive-with-tail in every direction:
x = 186, y = 45, rule = B3/S23
114b2o$114b2o$21b2o$21b2o24b2o105b2o$47b2o105b2o$52b2o89b2o$52b2o58b3o
28b2o2$110bo5bo$110bo5bo$110bo5bo28b2o$64bo80b2o$18b2o43bobo4b2o40b3o
45b2o$18b2o43b2o5b2o88b2o$45b2o$45b2o63b2o$109bo2bo$110b2o51b2o4b2o$
94b2o67b2o4b2o$94b2o$54b2o$54b2o28b2o66b2o$84b2o65bobo$59b2o55b3o33bo$
59b2o3$16bo$8b3o4bobo103b2o29b2o$15bobo41b2o60b2o29b2o$6bo5bo3bo42b2o$
6bo5bo$2o4bo5bo$2o72b2o$8b3o12bo50bobo$23bo50bo$23bo$39b3o$39bo$28b2o
10bo78b2o$28b2o89bobo$119bo$183b3o$183bo$184bo!

Not great, but it's what a cursory search around in catagolue turned up.
Physics: sophistication from simplicity.
User avatar
biggiemac
 
Posts: 503
Joined: September 17th, 2014, 12:21 am
Location: California, USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 16th, 2015, 11:31 am

biggiemac wrote:Pi + 3 Blocks -> Beehive with tail, but the pi is inconvenient (I don't know all the pi-makers but the G+block doesn't work at least):
x = 17, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
2b2o$2b2o$6bobo$6bobo$6b3o$15b2o$15b2o$2o$2o!

Could at least be a good starting point.


Yeah it looks like that is the basis for Kazyan's blockic seed for the beehive-with-tail here. I tried to get something out of Extrementhusiast's suggestions but wasn't successful. Therefore Kazyan's method looks like the best bet at the moment. The recipe in the link requires that the nearby eater is constructed after the beehive-with-tail:

x = 27, y = 21, rule = LifeHistory
18.2D$17.D2.D$18.2D.D$9.2A10.D3.2A$9.2A10.2D2.2A$6.2D11.2A$7.D11.2A$
4.3D$4.D$19.2A$19.2A2.2A$23.2A7$3A$2.A$.A!


In the one orientation where that is impractical an alternative is this:

x = 316, y = 272, rule = LifeHistory
26$225.A$224.A.A$225.2A16$219.2A$219.2A16.E$236.E.E$212.2A22.2E$212.
2A2.2A$216.2A$232.E$230.3E39.2E$216.2A11.E43.E$216.2A11.2E41.E$210.2A
2.2D56.2E$210.2A3.D$215.D.2D$216.D2.D$217.2D$232.2E13.2E$232.2E13.2E
26.2E$275.2E6$235.2E.E2.E3.2E$235.2E.4E2.E.E38.2E$244.E41.E$235.2E.2E
3.2E25.2E11.3E$236.E.E31.2E11.E$224.2D10.E.E$224.2D11.E$256.2D$257.D$
254.3D$254.D$266.2D$266.D$267.3D$269.D64$107.3A$109.A$108.A81$30.3A$
32.A$31.A16$13.3A$15.A$14.A!


But that's pretty ugly and even the plain five block seed is a bit more expensive than I was hoping for.
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby dvgrn » April 16th, 2015, 1:30 pm

chris_c wrote:The hardest orientation was definitely the last one since it required a cascade of 3 eaters to be constructed "out of order". The first two eaters are constructed by an engineered recipe based on this predecessor "3o4$2bo$b2o$o$2o!". If anyone knows of a better method please disclose.

I don't know of anything. That particular orientation of overhang is one of the biggest weaknesses of the current edge-of-reaction-envelope eater recipes.

You could certainly mine the final eater-constructing reactions for other orientations, to find alternate ideas that would work, such as

x = 90, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
6$23.A39.A9.A$23.A39.A8.A$23.A39.A8.3A$9.E39.E$8.E.E37.E.E$8.E.E4.D
32.E.E4.D$7.2E.2E3.3D5.A23.2E.2E3.3D5.A$18.D3.A.A33.D3.A.A$7.2E.4E3.
2D3.2A23.2E.4E3.2D3.2A$7.2E.E2.E33.2E.E2.E3$32.2A$32.A.A$32.A!

But by the time you've built a boat-or-whatever to turn the trigger glider to the right direction, it's going to come out about the same as what you've got. You still have to push the boat and blinker into place after the eater2 is there, and that tends to be a little expensive.

A much nicer trick would be if there's an eater seed with enough clearance that it can be pre-built before the eater2 seed is triggered. Maybe try out some of the high-clearance eater seeds that were developed for the linear GoL propagator?

...That initial eater2 construction, before the three-eater cascade, seems to spend an awful lot of time on cleanup. Might be worth pre-building a couple of blocks to make the cleanup job easier:

x = 532, y = 466, rule = LifeHistory
349.2A138.A$349.2A137.A.A23.D$472.3A12.A2.A21.3D$488.2A21.D$351.A118.
A5.A34.2D$350.A.A23.D93.A5.A22.D$334.3A12.A2.A21.3D93.A5.A22.3D$350.
2A21.D128.D$332.A5.A34.2D97.3A26.2D$332.A5.A22.D107.2D11.D$332.A5.A
22.3D105.2D10.D.D$364.D116.D.D4.D26.2D11.D$334.3A26.2D115.2D.2D3.3D
24.2D11.3D$331.2D11.D132.3A11.D39.D$331.2D10.D.D134.2D.4D3.2D38.2D$
343.D.D4.D26.2D11.D84.A4.2D.D2.D$342.2D.2D3.3D24.2D11.3D82.A$339.3A
11.D39.D81.A$342.2D.4D3.2D38.2D$337.A4.2D.D2.D$337.A$337.A145.A36.2D$
477.2D3.A.A7.2D26.2D$477.2D3.A.A7.2D$462.2D19.A$345.A36.2D77.D2.D$
339.2D3.A.A7.2D26.2D76.D.2D$339.2D3.A.A7.2D104.D$324.2D19.A113.2D56.
2D$323.D2.D147.2D41.D$322.D.2D148.D43.D$322.D152.3D39.2D$321.2D56.2D
96.D$336.2D41.D$336.D8.2A33.D$337.3D5.2A32.2D$339.D2$433.A$433.2A$
432.A.A2$295.A$295.2A$294.A.A20$417.3A$419.A$418.A2$279.3A$281.A$280.
A12$394.3A$396.A$395.A2$256.3A$258.A$257.A56$357.2A$356.A.A$358.A17$
336.A$336.2A$335.A.A4$171.2A$172.2A$171.A12$316.2A$315.A.A$317.A12$
148.2A$149.2A$148.A18$288.2A$287.A.A$289.A3$152.2A$153.2A$152.A40$
253.2A$252.A.A$254.A17$242.2A$241.A.A$243.A25$164.3A$166.A$165.A19$
145.3A$147.A$146.A17$124.3A$126.A$125.A21$106.3A$108.A$107.A10$79.3A$
81.A$80.A31$52.A$52.2A$51.A.A33$3A$2.A$.A8$15.3A$17.A$16.A!

The extra blocks don't seem to make any difference in terms of what red objects have to be pushed into place around corners, later on.

EDIT: One of the longer-range eater seeds in the Glue collection seems to be this one:

x = 18, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
8.A.A$9.2A4.3A$9.A3$11.2A$10.A.A$10.2A2$8.A5.A$8.A5.A$8.A5.A2$10.3A4$
2.E$.E.E$.E.E4.D$2E.2E3.3D$11.D$2E.4E3.2D$2E.E2.E!

But that definitely doesn't help with this particular orientation -- all that junk would have to be built behind the eater2, then triggered with a wrong-direction glider.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby simsim314 » April 16th, 2015, 4:10 pm

Although currently not better option and yet another option of synthesize syringe SL:

Here is how it looks:

x = 26, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
19bo$17b3o$16bo$15bobo6bo$15bobo5bo$16bo6b3o5$2o$2o4$20b2o$20bobo$22bo
$13b2o7b2o$13b2o2$5b2o$5b2o2$3b3obo$2bo3b2o$3b2o$4bob2o$4bo2bo$5b2o!


And here it is the census.
User avatar
simsim314
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 1:27 pm

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 16th, 2015, 8:10 pm

dvgrn wrote:You could certainly mine the final eater-constructing reactions for other orientations, to find alternate ideas that would work, such as

x = 90, y = 28, rule = LifeHistory
6$23.A39.A9.A$23.A39.A8.A$23.A39.A8.3A$9.E39.E$8.E.E37.E.E$8.E.E4.D
32.E.E4.D$7.2E.2E3.3D5.A23.2E.2E3.3D5.A$18.D3.A.A33.D3.A.A$7.2E.4E3.
2D3.2A23.2E.4E3.2D3.2A$7.2E.E2.E33.2E.E2.E3$32.2A$32.A.A$32.A!



Yeah, that's exactly the recipe that I mimicked. I found the following 4 glider transformation from traffic light to "block + glider" and then all of the other gliders just to do the set up and clean up.

x = 69, y = 80, rule = LifeHistory
61.D$60.2D2.3A$59.D$59.2D.A5.A$62.A5.A$62.A5.A2$64.3A2$50.3A$52.A$51.
A25$38.3A$40.A$39.A21$20.3A$22.A$21.A16$.A$.2A$A.A!


dvgrn wrote:...That initial eater2 construction, before the three-eater cascade, seems to spend an awful lot of time on cleanup. Might be worth pre-building a couple of blocks to make the cleanup job easier.


Quite possibly. You saved eleven gliders but added two blocks. Another option is to save 8 gliders by not bothering to clean up any of the junk on the north side of the eater. Anyway, I think the most savings to be made are in the construction of the beehive-with-tail. I will trawl few a few more of the soups on Catagolue and if I get really desperate I will try to code my salvo search script in C. (Hopefully not though!)

EDIT: This is quite a satisfying seed so it looks like further probing of Catagolue will be fruitful

x = 118, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2ob2o3b2obo3bo$o7bob3ob2o93bo$2bo2bo2bobo97bobo$bo2bob2obo4bo93bo2bo3b
3o$b3o4b5ob2o93b2o$o2bo4bob2o2bo98bo$2bo5b3obobo98bo$2b2o3bob4ob2o97bo
$2b3ob2obob2o$5ob2ob3ob3o$o4b2o3bob3o$4o2b2ob7o$bobob3ob5obo$ob3ob2o4b
o79b3o$obo3bo3b3o81bo$o2b4ob5o2bo77bo!
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby Extrementhusiast » April 16th, 2015, 11:06 pm

Well, here's another, cleaner option for the large eater:
x = 19, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
8b2o$8b2o2$bo$obo13b2o$bo13bo2bo$16b2o2$11bo$10bobo3b2o$6b2o2b2o4b2o$
7b2o$6bo!

The tub can also be substituted with a SEbound glider.

EDIT: Upon further review, this does not seem compatible with either the usual FNG or the FNG of the transparent block reaction. Well, back to waiting on the soup search for results.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
User avatar
Extrementhusiast
 
Posts: 1693
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: Slow salvo seeds

Postby chris_c » April 17th, 2015, 7:20 pm

I made recipes for the beehive-with-tail in all four orientations. Three of them require a final glider that is coming from the wrong direction but that should be possible using recipes from here. I haven't really thought about if all this is practical yet but at least it should work.

x = 1053, y = 248, rule = LifeHistory
1051.B$1050.A.A$1050.2AB$1051.A10$322.A$323.A$321.3A38$658.A$657.A.A$
657.A.A$658.A2$653.2A7.2A$652.A2.A5.A2.A$653.2A7.2A234.D$898.3D$658.A
242.D$657.A.A240.2D$657.A.A253.D$635.D22.A252.3D$594.2D39.3D272.D$
208.2A384.D43.D271.2D$207.A2.A384.D41.2D292.2E9.2E$208.2A384.2D56.2D
277.E10.2E$472.E179.D231.D11.2D31.E.E$224.E245.3E176.2D.D229.3D11.2D
25.2D2.3E.2E$222.3E39.2E203.E178.D2.D229.D41.D2.E$221.E43.E203.2E178.
2D230.2D38.D.D3.3E.2E$221.2E41.E192.E161.2D13.2D285.2D6.E.2E$206.2D
56.2E191.3E131.2D26.2D13.2D$207.D252.E130.2D$207.D.2D248.2E$208.D2.D
215.2E11.E$209.2D216.2E10.E.E$224.2E13.2E198.E.E4.E26.2E11.E404.2D$
224.2E13.2E26.2E169.2E.2E3.3E24.2E11.3E402.2D26.2D13.2D$267.2E180.E
39.E131.2D3.D2.D.2D286.2D13.2D$438.2E.4E3.2E38.2E91.2D38.D.D2.4D.2D
316.2D$438.2E.E2.E136.D41.D324.D2.D$582.3D11.2D25.2D3.2D.2D316.2D.D$
584.D11.2D31.D.D320.D$193.3A433.D.D10.2D250.2D56.2D$195.A31.2E.E2.E3.
2E391.D11.2D251.D41.2D16.3A$194.A32.2E.4E2.E.E38.2E331.2D282.D43.D$
236.E41.E137.A61.2E130.D283.2D39.3D15.A5.A$227.2E.2E3.2E25.2E11.3E
137.A.A17.2E13.2E26.2E131.3D321.D17.A5.A$228.E.E31.2E11.E139.A.A17.2E
13.2E161.D339.A5.A$216.2D10.E.E185.A3.2D178.2D$216.2D11.E189.D2.D178.
D353.3A$248.2E161.2A5.D.2A176.3D$249.E160.A2.A4.DA2.A175.D$246.3E162.
2A4.2D.2A53.2E$172.3A71.E185.2E41.E$174.A83.2E156.A15.E43.E$173.A84.E
156.A.A15.3E39.2E$259.3E153.A.A17.E$261.E154.A9$941.3A$943.A$942.A6$
395.2A532.A$394.A.A531.B2A$396.A531.A.A$929.B$583.3A$143.3A439.A$145.
A438.A$144.A10$909.A$908.B2A$368.2A538.A.A$367.A.A539.B$369.A3$137.3A
$139.A$138.A3$567.3A$569.A$568.A5$111.A787.A$111.2A235.2A549.2A$110.A
.A234.A.A548.A.A$349.A12$884.A$551.3A330.2A$553.A329.A.A$552.A5$89.2A
$88.A.A$90.A3$524.A$524.2A$335.2A186.A.A$334.A.A$336.A5$788.3A$788.A$
789.A20$49.3A$51.A$50.A14$25.3A470.3A$27.A472.A$26.A472.A13$3A$2.A$.A
!
chris_c
 
Posts: 799
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Next

Return to Patterns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: calcyman and 6 guests