Can we build a slow grey ship?

[HartmutHolzwart]

So far the constructed space ships are not very dense. Is there a way to extend large patches of the stripes agar, just given enough time? And remove a part on the other side?

Any ideas welcome!

[Kiran]

The slowest grayship I know of is c/5:

Code: Select all

#N c/5 greyship
#O Hartmut Holzwart
#C A c/5 orthogonal greyship discovered in March 2010
#C http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=C/5_orthogonal
x = 286, y = 199, rule = b3/s23
86b5o195b$89bobo194b$85bo6bo5b5o183b$85bo3bo11bobo182b$86b2obo7bo6bo5b
5o171b$89bob2o4bo3bo11bobo170b$87b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o159b$88bo12bob2o4b
o3bo11bobo158b$86b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o147b$85bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo
11bobo146b$85bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o135b$86bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o
4bo3bo11bobo134b$88bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o123b$98bobo8bobo
12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo122b$88bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o
111b$86bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo110b$85bob2o11bo11bo8bob
2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o99b$85bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3b
o11bobo98b$86b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o87b$88bo
8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo86b$87b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo
11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o75b$89bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bob
o12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo74b$86b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b
2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o63b$85bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob
2o4bo3bo11bobo62b$85bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b
2obo7bo6bo5b5o51b$89bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bo
b2o4bo3bo11bobo50b$86b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o
11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o39b$101bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo
12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo38b$93bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo
8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo37b$91b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo
21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo40b$105bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11b
o11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo40b$92b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bo
bo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o37b$117bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11b
o8bob2o9b2o11b2o41b$92bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bo
bo8bobo12bo41b$129bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o
42b$91b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo42b$
90b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o41b$89bo13b2o11bo
11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo41b$89bo12b2o49bo4b5o
6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo41b$90b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo
5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo53b$91b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b
2o9bob2o11bo41b$102b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo
10bobo41b$92bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o41b$114b
2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo42b$92b2o10bo10b2o8b
o12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o42b$126b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o7bo41b$91b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b
2o41b$91b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o37b$93bo9b3o
10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo40b$90b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o
11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo40b$89bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b
5o6bo6bo37b$90bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo38b$90bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o39b$90bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo
13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o49b$102bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo36b$
85b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o37b$85b2o27bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o74b$97b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo
13b2o11bo11b2o36b$86bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o62b$
86bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo37b$79b2o4bo2bo9bo10b
2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o50b$78b3o5bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o37b$77b2ob2o4b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo
9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o38b$79bo6bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o45b2o9bo40b$77b2o10bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo
10b2o8bo40b$70b2o5bo2bo3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b
2o45b2o38b$71bobo5b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o
10bo10b2o37b$70bob2o17b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o73b$64bo5bo7b10o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b
2o10bo37b$64b2o4bo2bo3bo10bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11b
o11b3o10b2o61b$63bo2bo4b4ob24o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o36b$62b2o3bo3bo3bo24bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o
12bo11bo11b3o10b2o49b$56bobo3b2o6b42o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27b
o10bo15bo9b3o36b$55bo13bo42bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o10b2o37b$55bo3bo3b4o2b55o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo
10bo15bo36b$57b2o65bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
37b$21b5o29b3o5b73o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo40b$24bobo21b
3o4bo2bo3bo73bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo39b$20bo6bo
23bo5b2o3b86o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo39b$20bo3bo23bob2o4bo3b
o87bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo39b$21b2obo17b2o3b2ob2o4b
104o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o55b$24bob2o13b3o4bo2b2obo105bo14b2o
3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o40b$22b2o16b2ob2o3b2ob121o3b2o3b2o15bo8b
2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o43b$23bo18bo129bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo53b$21b2o
17b2o6b136o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo43b$20bobo10b2o5bo2bo3bo136bo14b2o
3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo8b3o30b$20bob2o10bobo5b2o3b149o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o
9bo2bo11bo29b$21bobo9bob2o159bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo10bob2o29b$23bo9bo
7b167o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o8b2ob2o29b$33bo2bo3bo167bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo7bo
2b2o9bo2bobo13b$6b2o15bo10b4ob181o3b2o3b2o15bo7b2ob2o4bo3b5obo13b$5bo
3bo11bobo10bo3bo181bo14b2o3bo2bo14bo2bob2o19bob$4b2obobo6b2o3b3o9b199o
3b2o3b2o11b9o2bobobo10b2o2b2ob$15bo4bobo4b2obobo199bo14b2o3bo7bo2b2o3b
obo7bob4obo$4b8o3b2o4b2o4b2obob212o3b2o3b8o3b2o2bo2bobob2o3b3o4b$3bo4b
obo6bo6bo219bo16bo2bo2bo2bob6o2b2obo2b$4b2obo3b6o3b245o8b2o2bo2b2obo2b
$4bo2b2o259bo7bo2b3obo2b$5bo4b259o8b3o4bob$6o280b$5bo4b259o8b3o4bob$4b
o2b2o259bo7bo2b3obo2b$4b2obo3b6o3b245o8b2o2bo2b2obo2b$3bo4bobo6bo6bo
219bo16bo2bo2bo2bob6o2b2obo2b$4b8o3b2o4b2o4b2obob212o3b2o3b8o3b2o2bo2b
obob2o3b3o4b$15bo4bobo4b2obobo199bo14b2o3bo7bo2b2o3bobo7bob4obo$4b2obo
bo6b2o3b3o9b199o3b2o3b2o11b9o2bobobo10b2o2b2ob$5bo3bo11bobo10bo3bo181b
o14b2o3bo2bo14bo2bob2o19bob$6b2o15bo10b4ob181o3b2o3b2o15bo7b2ob2o4bo3b
5obo13b$33bo2bo3bo167bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo7bo2b2o9bo2bobo13b$23bo9bo7b
167o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o8b2ob2o29b$21bobo9bob2o159bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo
10bob2o29b$20bob2o10bobo5b2o3b149o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo11bo29b$20bobo
10b2o5bo2bo3bo136bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo8b3o30b$21b2o17b2o6b136o
3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo43b$23bo18bo129bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo
53b$22b2o16b2ob2o3b2ob121o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o43b$24bob2o13b
3o4bo2b2obo105bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o40b$21b2obo17b2o3b
2ob2o4b104o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o55b$20bo3bo23bob2o4bo3bo87bo
14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo39b$20bo6bo23bo5b2o3b86o3b2o3b
2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo39b$24bobo21b3o4bo2bo3bo73bo14b2o3bo2bo10b
o2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo39b$21b5o29b3o5b73o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo
9bo10b2o27bo10bo40b$57b2o65bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o37b$55bo3bo3b4o2b55o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15b
o36b$55bo13bo42bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o
37b$56bobo3b2o6b42o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o36b$
62b2o3bo3bo3bo24bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b
2o49b$63bo2bo4b4ob24o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b
2o36b$64b2o4bo2bo3bo10bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b
3o10b2o61b$64bo5bo7b10o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o
10b2o10bo37b$70bob2o17b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o73b$71bobo5b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo
10b2o37b$70b2o5bo2bo3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o
45b2o38b$77b2o10bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo
40b$79bo6bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo40b$77b2ob2o
4b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o38b$78b3o5bo
11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o37b$79b2o4bo2bo9bo10b2o
27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o50b$86bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo37b$86bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo
12b2o62b$97b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o36b$85b2o27bo
10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o74b$85b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o
9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o37b$102bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo
36b$90bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o49b$90bo10bo15bo9b3o
10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o39b$90bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o
9b2o20bobo38b$89bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo37b$90b
3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo40b$93bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b
2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo40b$91b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o37b$91b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o
41b$126b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo41b$92b2o10bo10b
2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o42b$114b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o
20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo42b$92bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b
2o9b2o9bob2o41b$102b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo
10bobo41b$91b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo41b$90b2o
9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo53b$89bo12b2o49b
o4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo41b$89bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo41b$90b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b
2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o41b$91b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bob
o10bobo21bobo8bobo42b$129bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob
2o9b2o42b$92bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12b
o41b$117bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o41b$92b
2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o37b$105bo
4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo40b$91b2o
20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo40b$93bo
4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo37b$
101bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo
38b$86b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo
5b5o39b$89bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo
11bobo50b$85bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo
6bo5b5o51b$85bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11b
obo62b$86b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o63b
$89bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo74b$87b2o9b2o
9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o75b$88bo8bobo10bobo21bobo
8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo86b$86b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2o
bo7bo6bo5b5o87b$85bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo98b$85bo
b2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o99b$86bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12b
ob2o4bo3bo11bobo110b$88bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o111b$98bob
o8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo122b$88bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o
123b$86bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo134b$85bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo
6bo5b5o135b$85bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo146b$86b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b
5o147b$88bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo158b$87b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o159b$89bob2o4b
o3bo11bobo170b$86b2obo7bo6bo5b5o171b$85bo3bo11bobo182b$85bo6bo5b5o183b
$89bobo194b$86b5o!

Did you mean "arbitrary slow grayship"?

[dvgrn]

So far the constructed space ships are not very dense. Is there a way to extend large patches of the stripes agar, just given enough time? And remove a part on the other side?

Well... if a glider construction can be found for an arbitrarily large patch of stripes agar, and also a "glider erosion" reaction that removes part of the patch without damaging the rest, then it would be technically possible to build some circuitry that applies those reactions on each side of a slow greyship. The circuitry would have to move itself also, the appropriate distance.

At the moment, I'd say this is theoretically designable (given the glider recipes) but not very buildable in practice, and not likely to run too well in Golly. Of the constructed spaceships, even the Caterpillar or the original Gemini would probably be a lot simpler than one of these things.

To get something that would apply to arbitrary-width greyships, you might want to include at least rudimentary calculation circuitry -- with a value N stored in a sliding block memory let's say, repeat such-and-such extension recipe N times on one side, and such-and-such erosion recipe N times on the other side.

It's not strictly necessary to have counting circuitry; the extension and erosion recipes could be hard-coded, so they just get longer as the greyship width increases. But even a minimum constructor circuit that moves itself by short distances (less than its own width, especially) is going to be fairly big and awkward.

Some kind of fill other than the stripes agar might be a lot easier to handle. For example, an "agar" made up of diagonal rows of crystal growths might be pretty easy to build and then destroy again.

The tricky part will always be moving the circuitry that controls the agar growth and destruction, at the speed of the ship.

If you think of the moving circuitry as being, at a bare minimum, about the size of a Demonoid spaceship, then I guess the real problem would be making the "grey" part bigger than the moving-circuitry part. Seems like that could be done, theoretically, but it would take a lot of circuitry.

Might even need some kind of logarithmic-space mechanism for storing and counting up to the number N, and that's definitely not something that we've tried to fit into a working self-constructor up to this point.

[Gamedziner]

Why not use a spacefiller?

[Saka]

Why not use a spacefiller?

Not sure what you mean. Did you mean taking components from max and halfmax etc? Remember that spacefillers only expand, greyships need to move, so all we can get is the front part. And Hartmut already makes wickstretchers before making his grayships. Please think through your posts more. I have noticed that your posts, lately, are, a bit, may I say, "unthoughtful". Sorry if I offended you, I did not mean to. Just try to think through your posts more next time. And please try to understand humour. Also try to stop pointing out the obvious. No offense.

[blah]

At the moment, I'd say this is theoretically designable (given the glider recipes) but not very buildable in practice, and not likely to run too well in Golly. Of the constructed spaceships, even the Caterpillar or the original Gemini would probably be a lot simpler than one of these things.

I think the fact that it's difficult is a good reason to do it.

[dvgrn]

I think the fact that it's difficult is a good reason to do it.

Sure -- the really unreasonable projects are always the most impressive to look at... at least until they get so big and awkward that Golly can't simulate them very well.

In this case, some kind of glider recipe for an incremental extension mechanism for the stripes-or-whatever agar will be needed, and a similar erosion mechanism. Hopefully the two will build and remove the same sized patches, because otherwise they'll have to be supported by two separate Geminoid-type ships with different periods. Without those recipes, this project will be pretty much a non-starter as far as I can see. (?)

[HartmutHolzwart]

Why not use a spacefiller?

How would spacefiller parts help for a slow spaceship?

I thought that we explore an area where nobody searched before, when searching for the necessary reactions.

[Gamedziner]

Why not use a spacefiller?

How would spacefiller parts help for a slow spaceship?

It could produce the Stripes agar as the first part of making a greyship.

[dvgrn]

It could produce the Stripes agar as the first part of making a greyship.

Unfortunately there's no plausible mechanism for starting and stopping a spacefiller, to slow down the hypothetical grey ship to a speed where the back edge can be gradually eroded.

It would be nice if we had a way to glider-construct a spacefiller, but it seems likely to be harder by several orders of magnitude than finding a glider construction and "glider erosion" for small patches of the stripes agar (and that's plenty difficult enough already.)

[blah]

What if there exists a 'wave' that would travel along the perimeter of the stripes agar and expand or erode it by a certain amount? It could be synthesised on one end, and removed on the other.

Either way, how do we proceed? Should we start writing search programs to find relevant reactions?

Also, it may be interesting to consider the spaceship being structured like a wick which is expanding on one end and burning on the other, where both ends are isolated.

[wildmyron]

What if there exists a 'wave' that would travel along the perimeter of the stripes agar and expand or erode it by a certain amount? It could be synthesised on one end, and removed on the other.

After spending some time looking at glider reactions to construct and erode stable agars I thought this would be a good idea. A wave mechanism is appealing when considering how to enlarge the width of the agar. In this case it is just a matter of waiting longer for the wave to reach the other side of the agar, whereas with construction and erosion salvos an increase in agar width requires a corresponding increase in the number of salvos.

Unfortunately I think that the difficulty in finding suitable reactions - and glider syntheses for them - is significantly greater than building the mechanisms to replicate and launch the required construction and erosion salvos. Here's a proof of concept for accretion of the stripes agar:

Code: Select all

x = 61, y = 22, rule = B3/S23
3bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$b56o$o56bo$b56o
2$b56o$o56bo$b56o$3bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo20b3o$39b2ob14ob
o2bo$39bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bobo2b2o$21bo5b2o4bo3b2o2bo$17bob4ob6ob4o2bo$18b
2o4bo10b2o$18bo2bo2bo2b3obob2o2bo$18bo2b4o4bobob2o2b2o$18bobo2b2obob2o
2bo$21b4o3b2ob2o$23bo3bo$21bobo2bob2o$20bo2b2o$20bobo2bo!

It travels at 3c/6, along the grain of the stripes agar and increases the "length" of the agar by one stripe in the against the grain direction (probably two would simplify the stabilisation at the edges, but that's a minor detail).
I've been unable to complete this partial and considering the difficulty of finding 3c/6 ships in general I don't plan to do so, particularly as this is a backend of the wave. I think it's clear that synthesising a completed 3c/6 wave would be a challenge. I thought a lower period search might be more manageable, but while there exist fuses at 3c/4 and 3c/5, I don't believe that there are waves at these speeds which are suitable, neither for this agar, nor something similar like the chicken wire agar.

Either way, how do we proceed? Should we start writing search programs to find relevant reactions

I believe the only viable way of finding something which will then be synthesisable is to write a search similar to FuseFinder, but using something known to be constructable instead of the soup (e.g. using something like simsim314's Random Glider Collision Search. I'm currently trialing something similar to this to find the potential construction and erosion salvos mentioned earlier. From looking at those results, I think you'd have to be extremely lucky to find a useful wave with this approach.

Also, it may be interesting to consider the spaceship being structured like a wick which is expanding on one end and burning on the other, where both ends are isolated.

I hadn't even considered the alternative to this being an option.

Edit: for clarity
Edit 2: fix broken URL

[BlinkerSpawn]

This wouldn't give a particularly dense grey ship but could we make a spaceship that extends and then burns tables?
Maybe have table-on-tables with 10 to 15 cells between them extended with salvos (agar density 1/8~1/4) and then a single glider should be able to remove a unit on the trailing ends.

[wildmyron]

wildmyron really seem to know what he's doing... I am not an expert so I can't say anything for sure but it sounds legit...

Ha ha. Thanks for that, I appreciate having a good laugh to start the day off right. I'm far from an expert - in particular I spent some time browsing through old posts in the Synthesising Oscillators thread and I must say that it provides me renewed optimism for the goal of being able to synthesise whatever is required for this project.

This wouldn't give a particularly dense grey ship but could we make a spaceship that extends and then burns tables?
Maybe have table-on-tables with 10 to 15 cells between them extended with salvos (agar density 1/8~1/4) and then a single glider should be able to remove a unit on the trailing ends.

This is the densest packing which allows a single glider destruction of one unit - density = 3/14 ~0.214

Code: Select all

x = 21, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo$b4o4b4o4b4o2$b4o4b4o4b4o$bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo3$bo2bo4bo
2bo4bo2bo$b4o4b4o4b4o2$b4o4b4o4b4o$bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo3$bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2b
o$b4o4b4o4b4o2$b4o4b4o4b4o$bo2bo4bo2bo4bo2bo3$3o$2bo$bo!

If you can delete them all at once the density can be increased to 12/49 ~ 0.245

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo$b4o3b4o3b4o2$b4o3b4o3b4o$bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$bo2bo3bo
2bo3bo2bo$b4o3b4o3b4o2$b4o3b4o3b4o$bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2b
o$b4o3b4o3b4o2$b4o3b4o3b4o$bo2bo3bo2bo3bo2bo3$3o4b3o4b3o$2bo6bo6bo$bo
6bo6bo!

I'm not sure if this counts as a grey ship but it would certainly be simpler to construct

[BlinkerSpawn]

I was going off a school computer posting that so I didn't put much effort into verifying it.
My original idea was something like this (burning the "agar" with LWSS, not gliders like I'd hoped):

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 26, rule = Life
30bo2bo4bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$34bo3b19o$30bo3bo$31b4o3b19o$38bo2bo2bo2b
o2bo2bo2bo3$20bo2bo14bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$24bo13b19o$20bo3bo$21b4o13b
19o$38bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3$10bo2bo24bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo$14bo23b19o$
10bo3bo$11b4o23b19o$38bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo3$o2bo34bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo
$4bo33b19o$o3bo$b4o33b19o$38bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo2bo!

The table chains probably need more spacing to allow synthesis, but this idea should make the trailing end much less problematic.

[dvgrn]

I'm not sure if this counts as a grey ship but it would certainly be simpler to construct...

There aren't any big technical difficulties with constructing something like this.

I'm not sure why it has to be table-on-tables, though. Once we're building lots of widely separated still lifes instead of a large connected patch, why not something that allows a chain reaction, where you can knock out a whole row with one glider?

Code: Select all

x = 55, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
o18bo18bo$3o16b3o16b3o$3bo18bo18bo3bo$2b2o17b2o17b2o2bo$16bo18bo8b3o7b
o$14b3o16b3o16b3o$13bo18bo18bo$13b2o17b2o17b2o$o18bo18bo$3o16b3o16b3o$
3bo18bo18bo$2b2o17b2o17b2o$16bo18bo18bo$14b3o16b3o16b3o$13bo18bo18bo$
13b2o17b2o17b2o$o18bo18bo$3o16b3o16b3o$3bo18bo18bo$2b2o17b2o17b2o$16bo
18bo18bo$14b3o16b3o16b3o$13bo18bo18bo$13b2o17b2o17b2o$o18bo18bo$3o16b
3o16b3o$3bo18bo18bo$2b2o17b2o17b2o$16bo18bo18bo$14b3o16b3o16b3o$13bo
18bo18bo$13b2o17b2o17b2o$o18bo18bo$3o16b3o16b3o$3bo18bo18bo$2b2o17b2o
17b2o$16bo18bo18bo$14b3o16b3o16b3o$13bo18bo18bo$13b2o17b2o17b2o$o18bo
18bo$3o16b3o16b3o$3bo18bo18bo$2b2o17b2o17b2o$16bo18bo18bo$14b3o16b3o
16b3o$13bo18bo18bo$13b2o17b2o17b2o5$6b2o17b2o17b2o$6b2o17b2o17b2o!
#C [[ STEP 33 ]]

There are lots of constructible constellations, much denser than that table-on-table agar, that would allow a clean destruction reaction on a whole line at once -- and probably we could find a constellation that is triggered by a simple dying spark, which it reproduces at its opposite edge.

BlinkerSpawn's design seems a bit more interesting. The table-on-table chains are connected still lifes in one direction, at least. Might it be possible to design some kind of connected still life, or at least pseudo-still-life, that would burn cleanly all the way along its back edge, but limit the damage so that the next layer was burnable next time?

I guess if we switch to a diagonally moving slow grayship, it would be easy to burn something like a very^N long canoe. It'd just be a question of how close together an arbitrary number of arbitrarily long canoes can be constructed.

-------------------------

In any case, aren't we right back to needing a programmed universal constructor to move itself along with the front and back edges? The front end is going to need so many gliders, and will have to be constructed so slowly and move in such short increments, that it doesn't seem like there will be any simpler solution than a U.C. (?).

For the above case, you'd need slide-guns-or-something that can build two rows of eaters of arbitrary length, and then stop when it gets to the edge of the grayship's area. Maybe leave a marker block behind at the end of every cycle or something. But then the whole slide-guns-or-something mechanism has to be moved over 20 cells (or 19) so the ship can keep moving. Could design more complicated slide^2 guns that build multiple rows, but that only delays the problem and makes it worse -- eventually you have to move the whole more-complex mechanism. Right?

[wildmyron]

<snip - analysis of complex construction circuitry>

Some kind of fill other than the stripes agar might be a lot easier to handle. For example, an "agar" made up of diagonal rows of crystal growths might be pretty easy to build and then destroy again.

<snip>

While this is the least dense option proposed, it's also by far the simplest. Here's a PoC of the interior of the ship using Simkin glider guns to build the frontend and remove the backend. I've arbitrarily constructed this with a period of 15384 and displacement of (16, -16) but there's nothing special about those numbers. I suspect it would be pretty difficult to squeeze the rows any closer together.

Code: Select all

x = 565, y = 569, rule = B3/S23
153bo$153b3o$156bo$155b2o4$162bo2bo$144b2o5b2o9bo3bo$144b2o5b2o8bo4bo$
161bo4bo$148b2o11bo3bo$148b2o12bobo4$137bo33b2o$137b3o31b2o$140bo$139b
2o27b2o5b2o$168b2o5b2o4$128b2o5b2o7b3o$128b2o5b2o7bo$145bo$132b2o19b2o
13bo$132b2o19b2o14bo$154bo12b3o$150b4o$149bo3bo$121bo27b3o26b2o$121b3o
27b2o25b2o$124bo28bo$123b2o29bo4b2o$153bo5b2o4$112b2o5b2o$112b2o5b2o2$
116b2o$116b2o4$105bo33b2o21b2o$105b3o20b3o8b2o17bo3b2o$108bo17b2ob4o
26bo$107b2o17bo2b2o4bobo5b2o12b3o$126b3o7b2o5b2o$131bobo3$96b2o5b2o$
96b2o5b2o93bo$199bo$100b2o95b3o$100b2o2$105b3o$104bo4bo$89bo14b2obo15b
2o21b2o$89b3o16b3o12b2o21b2o$92bo18bo$91b2o27b2o5b2o$120b2o5b2o3$148bo
$80b2o5b2o60bo$80b2o5b2o58b3o2$84b2o$84b2o3$188bo$73bo56b2o57bo$73b3o
54b2o55b3o$76bo$75b2o4$228bo$64b2o5b2o156bo$64b2o5b2o154b3o2$68b2o$68b
2o$138bo$105b2o32bo$105b2o30b3o6$178bo$179bo$177b3o6$218bo$89b2o128bo$
89b2o36b2o88b3o$126bo2bo$127b2o$117bo$116bobo4bo$116bobo3bobo$117bo4bo
bo133bo$123bo135bo$257b3o$137b2o$136bo2bo$137b2o$168bo$133bo35bo3b2o$
132bobo32b3o3b2o$132bobo$111b2o20bo$25bo84bo2bo$25b3o83b2o$28bo72bo44b
2o$27b2o71bobo4bo37bo2bo59bo$100bobo3bobo37b2o61bo$101bo4bobo72b2o24b
3o$107bo34bo37bo2bo$141bobo37b2o$16b2o5b2o96b2o18bobo$16b2o5b2o95bo2bo
18bo34bo$121b2o53bobo$20b2o134b2o18bobo69bo$20b2o95bo37bo2bo18bo71bo$
116bobo37b2o89b3o$116bobo72b2o$117bo34bo37bo2bo$9bo141bobo37b2o$9b3o
139bobo$12bo117b2o20bo34bo$11b2o116bo2bo53bobo99bo$130b2o54bobo100bo$
165b2o20bo99b3o$126bo37bo2bo$125bobo37b2o$2o4b3o116bobo72b2o$2o4bob2o
116bo34bo37bo2bo$6bo3bo149bobo37b2o$6b2o132b2o18bobo$6bo132bo2bo18bo
34bo$6bo133b2o53bobo$41b2o132b2o18bobo$7bo2bo30b2o93bo37bo2bo18bo$5bob
obo17b2o106bobo37b2o$6bo20b2o106bobo72b2o26bo$136bo34bo37bo2bo26bo$16b
o7b2o5b2o137bobo37b2o25b3o$17bo6b2o5b2o137bobo$15b3o131b2o20bo34bo$
148bo2bo53bobo$149b2o54bobo$184b2o20bo$145bo37bo2bo91bo$144bobo37b2o
93bo$144bobo72b2o56b3o$145bo34bo37bo2bo$179bobo37b2o$159b2o18bobo$63b
2o93bo2bo18bo34bo$62bo2bo93b2o53bobo$63b2o129b2o18bobo101bo$53bo101bo
37bo2bo18bo103bo$52bobo4bo94bobo37b2o121b3o$52bobo3bobo93bobo72b2o$53b
o4bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo$59bo129bobo37b2o$189bobo$73b2o93b2o20bo34bo$72bo
2bo91bo2bo53bobo$73b2o93b2o54bobo$203b2o20bo$69bo94bo37bo2bo$68bobo92b
obo37b2o$68bobo92bobo72b2o$47b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo27bo$46bo2bo148bobo
37b2o29bo$47b2o129b2o18bobo66b3o$37bo44b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo$36bobo4bo37b
o2bo93b2o53bobo$36bobo3bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$37bo4bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo
$43bo34bo94bobo37b2o$77bobo93bobo72b2o58bo$57b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo
58bo$56bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o57b3o$57b2o149bobo$92b2o93b2o20bo34bo$53bo
37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo$52bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$52bobo167b2o20bo$53bo34bo
94bo37bo2bo123bo$87bobo92bobo37b2o125bo$87bobo92bobo72b2o88b3o$66b2o
20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$65bo2bo148bobo37b2o$66b2o129b2o18bobo$101b2o93bo2b
o18bo34bo$62bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo$61bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$61bobo129bo
37bo2bo18bo$62bo34bo94bobo37b2o$96bobo93bobo72b2o$76b2o18bobo94bo34bo
37bo2bo$75bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o$76b2o149bobo68bo$111b2o93b2o20bo34bo
35bo3b2o$72bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo32b3o3b2o$71bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$71bo
bo167b2o20bo$72bo34bo94bo37bo2bo$106bobo92bobo37b2o$106bobo92bobo72b2o
$85b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo59bo$84bo2bo148bobo37b2o61bo$85b2o129b2o18bob
o72b2o24b3o$120b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$81bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$
80bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$80bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$81bo34bo94bobo37b2o
53bobo$115bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo69bo$95b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo71bo
$94bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o89b3o$95b2o149bobo72b2o$130b2o93b2o20bo34bo37b
o2bo$91bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$90bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$90bobo167b2o
20bo34bo$91bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo$125bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$125bobo92b
obo72b2o20bo$104b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$103bo2bo148bobo37b2o$104b2o129b
2o18bobo72b2o$139b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$100bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b
2o$99bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$99bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$100bo34bo94bobo
37b2o53bobo$134bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$114b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$
113bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o$114b2o149bobo72b2o26bo$149b2o93b2o20bo34bo37b
o2bo26bo$110bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o25b3o$109bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$
109bobo167b2o20bo34bo$110bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo$144bobo92bobo37b2o54b
obo$144bobo92bobo72b2o20bo$123b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo91bo$122bo2bo148bo
bo37b2o93bo$123b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o56b3o$158b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$
119bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$118bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$118bobo129bo37bo
2bo18bo34bo$119bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo$153bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$133b2o
18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$132bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o$133b2o149bobo72b2o$
168b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$129bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$128bobo37b2o
93b2o54bobo$128bobo167b2o20bo34bo$129bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo$163bobo
92bobo37b2o54bobo$163bobo92bobo72b2o20bo$142b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$
141bo2bo148bobo37b2o$142b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$177b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo
2bo27bo$138bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o29bo$137bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo66b3o
$137bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$138bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo$172bobo93bobo
72b2o18bobo$152b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$151bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o$
152b2o149bobo72b2o58bo$187b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo58bo$148bo37bo2bo91bo
2bo53bobo37b2o57b3o$147bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$147bobo167b2o20bo34bo$148b
o34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo$182bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$182bobo92bobo72b2o20bo
$161b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$160bo2bo148bobo37b2o$161b2o129b2o18bobo72b
2o$196b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$157bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$156bobo
37b2o129b2o18bobo$156bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$157bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bo
bo$191bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$171b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$170bo2bo
18bo129bobo37b2o$171b2o149bobo72b2o$206b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$167bo
37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$166bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo68bo$166bobo167b2o20b
o34bo35bo3b2o$167bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo32b3o3b2o$201bobo92bobo37b2o
54bobo$201bobo92bobo72b2o20bo$180b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$179bo2bo148bob
o37b2o$180b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$215b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo59bo$176bo
37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o61bo$175bobo37b2o61b2o66b2o18bobo72b2o24b3o$
175bobo100b2o27bo37bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$176bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo37b
2o$210bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$190b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$189bo
2bo18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$190b2o149bobo72b2o18bobo$225b2o93b2o20bo34bo
37bo2bo18bo$186bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$185bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo72b
2o$185bobo80b2o85b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$186bo34bo46b2o46bo37bo2bo53bobo37b
2o$220bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$220bobo92bobo72b2o20bo34bo$199b2o20bo94bo
34bo37bo2bo53bobo$198bo2bo148bobo37b2o54bobo$199b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o
20bo$234b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$195bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$194bobo
37b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$194bobo61b2o66bo37bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$195bo34b
o27b2o65bobo37b2o53bobo37b2o$229bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$209b2o18bobo94bo
34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$208bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$209b2o149bobo72b2o
18bobo$244b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$205bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$
204bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo72b2o26bo$204bobo167b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo26bo$205b
o34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo37b2o25b3o$239bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$239bobo92bob
o72b2o20bo34bo$218b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo53bobo$217bo2bo148bobo37b2o54b
obo$218b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o20bo$253b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$214bo37bo
2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$213bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$213bobo129bo37bo2bo
18bo34bo37bo2bo$214bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo37b2o$248bobo93bobo72b2o18bo
bo$228b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$227bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$
228b2o149bobo72b2o18bobo$263b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$224bo37bo2bo
91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$223bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo72b2o$223bobo167b2o20bo34bo
37bo2bo$224bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo37b2o$258bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$258bo
bo92bobo72b2o20bo34bo$237b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo53bobo$236bo2bo148bobo
37b2o54bobo$237b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o20bo$272b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$
233bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$232bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$232bobo129b
o37bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo27bo$233bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo37b2o29bo$267bob
o93bobo72b2o18bobo66b3o$247b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$246bo2bo
18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$247b2o149bobo72b2o18bobo$282b2o93b2o20bo34bo37b
o2bo18bo$243bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$242bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo72b2o$
242bobo167b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$243bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo37b2o$277bobo
92bobo37b2o54bobo$277bobo92bobo72b2o20bo34bo$256b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo
53bobo$255bo2bo148bobo37b2o54bobo$256b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o20bo$291b2o
93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$252bo37bo2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$251bobo37b2o129b2o
18bobo72b2o$251bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$252bo34bo94bobo37b2o53b
obo37b2o$286bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$266b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$
265bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$266b2o149bobo72b2o18bobo$301b2o93b2o20b
o34bo37bo2bo18bo$262bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$261bobo37b2o93b2o54bob
o72b2o$261bobo167b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$262bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo37b2o$
296bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo68bo$296bobo92bobo72b2o20bo34bo35bo3b2o$275b2o
20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo53bobo32b3o3b2o$274bo2bo148bobo37b2o54bobo$275b2o
129b2o18bobo72b2o20bo$310b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$271bo37bo2bo93b2o
53bobo37b2o$270bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o$270bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo34bo
37bo2bo$271bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo37b2o$305bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$285b
2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo34bo$284bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o53bobo$285b2o
149bobo72b2o18bobo$320b2o93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$281bo37bo2bo91bo2bo
53bobo37b2o$280bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo72b2o$280bobo167b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$
281bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo37b2o$315bobo92bobo37b2o54bobo$315bobo92bobo
72b2o20bo34bo$294b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo53bobo$293bo2bo148bobo37b2o54bo
bo$294b2o129b2o18bobo72b2o20bo$329b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo37bo2bo$290bo37bo
2bo93b2o53bobo37b2o$289bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$289bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo
34bo$290bo34bo94bobo37b2o53bobo$324bobo93bobo72b2o18bobo$304b2o18bobo
94bo34bo37bo2bo18bo$303bo2bo18bo129bobo37b2o$304b2o149bobo72b2o$339b2o
93b2o20bo34bo37bo2bo$300bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bobo37b2o$299bobo37b2o93b2o
54bobo$299bobo167b2o20bo34bo$300bo34bo94bo37bo2bo53bobo$334bobo92bobo
37b2o54bobo$334bobo92bobo72b2o20bo$313b2o20bo94bo34bo37bo2bo$312bo2bo
148bobo37b2o$313b2o129b2o18bobo$348b2o93bo2bo18bo34bo$309bo37bo2bo93b
2o53bobo$308bobo37b2o129b2o18bobo$308bobo129bo37bo2bo18bo$309bo34bo94b
obo37b2o$343bobo93bobo72b2o$323b2o18bobo94bo34bo37bo2bo$322bo2bo18bo
129bobo37b2o$323b2o149bobo$358b2o93b2o20bo34bo$319bo37bo2bo91bo2bo53bo
bo$318bobo37b2o93b2o54bobo$318bobo167b2o20bo$319bo34bo94bo37bo2bo$353b
obo92bobo37b2o$353bobo92bobo$332b2o20bo94bo34bo$331bo2bo148bobo$332b2o
129b2o18bobo$367b2o93bo2bo18bo$328bo37bo2bo93b2o$327bobo37b2o129b2o$
327bobo129bo37bo2bo$328bo34bo94bobo37b2o$362bobo93bobo$342b2o18bobo94b
o34bo$341bo2bo18bo129bobo$342b2o149bobo$377b2o93b2o20bo$338bo37bo2bo
91bo2bo$337bobo37b2o93b2o$337bobo$338bo34bo94bo$372bobo92bobo$372bobo
92bobo$351b2o20bo94bo$350bo2bo$351b2o129b2o$386b2o93bo2bo$347bo37bo2bo
93b2o$346bobo37b2o$346bobo129bo$347bo34bo94bobo$381bobo93bobo$361b2o
18bobo94bo$360bo2bo18bo$361b2o$396b2o$357bo37bo2bo$356bobo37b2o$356bob
o$357bo34bo$391bobo$391bobo$370b2o20bo$369bo2bo$370b2o$405b2o$366bo37b
o2bo$365bobo37b2o$365bobo$366bo34bo$400bobo$380b2o18bobo$379bo2bo18bo$
380b2o$415b2o$376bo37bo2bo$375bobo37b2o$375bobo$376bo34bo$410bobo$410b
obo$389b2o20bo$388bo2bo$389b2o$424b2o$385bo37bo2bo$384bobo37b2o$384bob
o$385bo34bo$419bobo$399b2o18bobo$398bo2bo18bo$399b2o$434b2o$395bo37bo
2bo$394bobo37b2o$394bobo$395bo34bo$429bobo$429bobo$408b2o20bo$407bo2bo
$408b2o2$404bo$403bobo$403bobo$404bo2$418b2o$417bo2bo$418b2o2$414bo$
413bobo$413bobo$414bo!

So what's needed here is:
* a better stopper for the gun once the crystal growth is complete, preferably something which allows it to be easily started up again to destroy the crystal.
* a mechanism to stop the gun again once the crystal has been destroyed (either using the appropriate timing to destroy the gun at just the right time or some other mechanism triggered by completion of the crystal destruction).
* a recipe to construct the Simkin glider gun on one side of the ship and the target block on the other.
* And then there's the small matter of moving the required construction circuitry by some fraction of it's total size in order to build the next row of the ship.

Does anyone have some numbers on the density of the existing self constructing ships which provide a target to improve on?

<snip - some other constructable constellation ideas>

In any case, aren't we right back to needing a programmed universal constructor to move itself along with the front and back edges? The front end is going to need so many gliders, and will have to be constructed so slowly and move in such short increments, that it doesn't seem like there will be any simpler solution than a U.C. (?).

For the above case, you'd need slide-guns-or-something that can build two rows of eaters of arbitrary length, and then stop when it gets to the edge of the grayship's area. Maybe leave a marker block behind at the end of every cycle or something. But then the whole slide-guns-or-something mechanism has to be moved over 20 cells (or 19) so the ship can keep moving. Could design more complicated slide^2 guns that build multiple rows, but that only delays the problem and makes it worse -- eventually you have to move the whole more-complex mechanism. Right?

I wrote the above before seeing this, and yes, I think we are right back to that, unless perhaps with a design something like the above we can use glider rakes to construct the guns on one side as well as some circuitry on the other side which triggers the destruction of the gun once the crystal row has been destroyed.

Lots of wishful thinking there...

Edit:

In any case, aren't we right back to needing a programmed universal constructor to move itself along with the front and back edges?

Actually, isn't the point of this thread to start with a UC based ship and increase its density by programming it to build an agar and thereby become a very large, slow greyship? It's not so much "needing" one to do the job as it is wanting to build the ship with one for the sake of it.

[dvgrn]

a better stopper for the gun once the crystal growth is complete, preferably something which allows it to be easily started up again to destroy the crystal.

I haven't really looked, but check out what's in the LCD decimal display. Those ON and OFF switching problems were solved in making various high-period guns, quite a while ago now.

In any case, aren't we right back to needing a programmed universal constructor to move itself along with the front and back edges?

Actually, isn't the point of this thread to start with a UC based ship and increase its density by programming it to build an agar and thereby become a very large, slow greyship? It's not so much "needing" one to do the job as it is wanting to build the ship with one for the sake of it.

Well, Hartmut's original post didn't require a UC based ship. UC solutions to problems are very often available, but they generally seem like overkill. It's kind of like building human-level intelligence into a robot just so that you could teach it to tie your shoes for you.

It would be nice to find something simpler than a full UC for this grayship task, but so far everything I imagine always turns out to have a full UC in it somewhere...!

[blah]

What about a grey knightship? That may be a worthwhile challenge too.

As for designs without universal constructors, if we found a wave which could travel along the edge of an agar and expand/erode it (as I previously mentioned), it may be possible for that wave to automatically mirror itself and start traveling in the opposite direction once it reaches the edge.

You could even extend the wave idea to a grey knightship, or simply a diagonal ship, by having two pairs of waves, one for each of the four sides. You could modify the angle of the knightship by changing the aspect ratio of the ship as a rectangle, and it could set a record for the smallest knightship (but let's not get ahead of ourselves here).

Also, I just noticed that the ship posted earlier in this thread:

The slowest grayship I know of is c/5:

Code: Select all

#N c/5 greyship
#O Hartmut Holzwart
#C A c/5 orthogonal greyship discovered in March 2010
#C http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=C/5_orthogonal
x = 286, y = 199, rule = b3/s23
86b5o195b$89bobo194b$85bo6bo5b5o183b$85bo3bo11bobo182b$86b2obo7bo6bo5b
5o171b$89bob2o4bo3bo11bobo170b$87b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o159b$88bo12bob2o4b
o3bo11bobo158b$86b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o147b$85bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo
11bobo146b$85bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o135b$86bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o
4bo3bo11bobo134b$88bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o123b$98bobo8bobo
12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo122b$88bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o
111b$86bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo110b$85bob2o11bo11bo8bob
2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o99b$85bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3b
o11bobo98b$86b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o87b$88bo
8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo86b$87b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo
11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o75b$89bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bob
o12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo74b$86b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b
2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o63b$85bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob
2o4bo3bo11bobo62b$85bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b
2obo7bo6bo5b5o51b$89bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bo
b2o4bo3bo11bobo50b$86b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o
11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o39b$101bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo
12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo38b$93bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo
8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo37b$91b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo
21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo40b$105bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11b
o11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo40b$92b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bo
bo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o37b$117bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11b
o8bob2o9b2o11b2o41b$92bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bo
bo8bobo12bo41b$129bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o
42b$91b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo42b$
90b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o41b$89bo13b2o11bo
11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo41b$89bo12b2o49bo4b5o
6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo41b$90b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo
5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo53b$91b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b
2o9bob2o11bo41b$102b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo
10bobo41b$92bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o41b$114b
2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo42b$92b2o10bo10b2o8b
o12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o42b$126b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o7bo41b$91b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b
2o41b$91b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o37b$93bo9b3o
10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo40b$90b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o
11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo40b$89bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b
5o6bo6bo37b$90bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo38b$90bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o39b$90bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo
13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o49b$102bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo36b$
85b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o37b$85b2o27bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o74b$97b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo
13b2o11bo11b2o36b$86bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o62b$
86bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo37b$79b2o4bo2bo9bo10b
2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o50b$78b3o5bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o37b$77b2ob2o4b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo
9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o38b$79bo6bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o45b2o9bo40b$77b2o10bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo
10b2o8bo40b$70b2o5bo2bo3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b
2o45b2o38b$71bobo5b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o
10bo10b2o37b$70bob2o17b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o73b$64bo5bo7b10o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b
2o10bo37b$64b2o4bo2bo3bo10bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11b
o11b3o10b2o61b$63bo2bo4b4ob24o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo
15bo9b3o10b2o36b$62b2o3bo3bo3bo24bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o
12bo11bo11b3o10b2o49b$56bobo3b2o6b42o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27b
o10bo15bo9b3o36b$55bo13bo42bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o10b2o37b$55bo3bo3b4o2b55o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo
10bo15bo36b$57b2o65bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
37b$21b5o29b3o5b73o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo40b$24bobo21b
3o4bo2bo3bo73bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo39b$20bo6bo
23bo5b2o3b86o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo39b$20bo3bo23bob2o4bo3b
o87bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo39b$21b2obo17b2o3b2ob2o4b
104o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o55b$24bob2o13b3o4bo2b2obo105bo14b2o
3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o40b$22b2o16b2ob2o3b2ob121o3b2o3b2o15bo8b
2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o43b$23bo18bo129bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo53b$21b2o
17b2o6b136o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo43b$20bobo10b2o5bo2bo3bo136bo14b2o
3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo8b3o30b$20bob2o10bobo5b2o3b149o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o
9bo2bo11bo29b$21bobo9bob2o159bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo10bob2o29b$23bo9bo
7b167o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o8b2ob2o29b$33bo2bo3bo167bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo7bo
2b2o9bo2bobo13b$6b2o15bo10b4ob181o3b2o3b2o15bo7b2ob2o4bo3b5obo13b$5bo
3bo11bobo10bo3bo181bo14b2o3bo2bo14bo2bob2o19bob$4b2obobo6b2o3b3o9b199o
3b2o3b2o11b9o2bobobo10b2o2b2ob$15bo4bobo4b2obobo199bo14b2o3bo7bo2b2o3b
obo7bob4obo$4b8o3b2o4b2o4b2obob212o3b2o3b8o3b2o2bo2bobob2o3b3o4b$3bo4b
obo6bo6bo219bo16bo2bo2bo2bob6o2b2obo2b$4b2obo3b6o3b245o8b2o2bo2b2obo2b
$4bo2b2o259bo7bo2b3obo2b$5bo4b259o8b3o4bob$6o280b$5bo4b259o8b3o4bob$4b
o2b2o259bo7bo2b3obo2b$4b2obo3b6o3b245o8b2o2bo2b2obo2b$3bo4bobo6bo6bo
219bo16bo2bo2bo2bob6o2b2obo2b$4b8o3b2o4b2o4b2obob212o3b2o3b8o3b2o2bo2b
obob2o3b3o4b$15bo4bobo4b2obobo199bo14b2o3bo7bo2b2o3bobo7bob4obo$4b2obo
bo6b2o3b3o9b199o3b2o3b2o11b9o2bobobo10b2o2b2ob$5bo3bo11bobo10bo3bo181b
o14b2o3bo2bo14bo2bob2o19bob$6b2o15bo10b4ob181o3b2o3b2o15bo7b2ob2o4bo3b
5obo13b$33bo2bo3bo167bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo7bo2b2o9bo2bobo13b$23bo9bo7b
167o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o8b2ob2o29b$21bobo9bob2o159bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo
10bob2o29b$20bob2o10bobo5b2o3b149o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo11bo29b$20bobo
10b2o5bo2bo3bo136bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo8b3o30b$21b2o17b2o6b136o
3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo43b$23bo18bo129bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo
53b$22b2o16b2ob2o3b2ob121o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o43b$24bob2o13b
3o4bo2b2obo105bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o40b$21b2obo17b2o3b
2ob2o4b104o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o55b$20bo3bo23bob2o4bo3bo87bo
14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo39b$20bo6bo23bo5b2o3b86o3b2o3b
2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo39b$24bobo21b3o4bo2bo3bo73bo14b2o3bo2bo10b
o2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo39b$21b5o29b3o5b73o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo
9bo10b2o27bo10bo40b$57b2o65bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo
11bo11b3o37b$55bo3bo3b4o2b55o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15b
o36b$55bo13bo42bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o
37b$56bobo3b2o6b42o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o36b$
62b2o3bo3bo3bo24bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b
2o49b$63bo2bo4b4ob24o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b
2o36b$64b2o4bo2bo3bo10bo14b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b
3o10b2o61b$64bo5bo7b10o3b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o
10b2o10bo37b$70bob2o17b2o3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o73b$71bobo5b2o3b2o15bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo
10b2o37b$70b2o5bo2bo3bo2bo10bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o
45b2o38b$77b2o10bo8b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo
40b$79bo6bo2bo8bo11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo40b$77b2ob2o
4b2o9bo2bo9bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o38b$78b3o5bo
11bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o37b$79b2o4bo2bo9bo10b2o
27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o50b$86bobo20b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o
10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo37b$86bo10b2o27bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo
12b2o62b$97b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o36b$85b2o27bo
10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o74b$85b2ob2o12bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o
9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o37b$102bo10bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo
36b$90bo11bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o49b$90bo10bo15bo9b3o
10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o39b$90bo11b3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o
9b2o20bobo38b$89bo15bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo37b$90b
3o10b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo40b$93bo9b3o10b2o10bo10b
2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo40b$91b2o45b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o37b$91b3o10b2o10bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o
41b$126b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo41b$92b2o10bo10b
2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o42b$114b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o
20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo42b$92bo10b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b
2o9b2o9bob2o41b$102b2o9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo
10bobo41b$91b2o8bo12b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo41b$90b2o
9bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo53b$89bo12b2o49b
o4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo41b$89bo13b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bob
o5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo41b$90b2o49bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b
2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o41b$91b2o11bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bob
o10bobo21bobo8bobo42b$129bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob
2o9b2o42b$92bo11b2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12b
o41b$117bo4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o41b$92b
2o9b2o20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o37b$105bo
4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo40b$91b2o
20bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo40b$93bo
4b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo37b$
101bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo
38b$86b5o6bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo
5b5o39b$89bobo5bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo
11bobo50b$85bo6bo5b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo
6bo5b5o51b$85bo3bo11bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11b
obo62b$86b2obo9b2o9b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o63b
$89bob2o7bo8bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo74b$87b2o9b2o
9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o75b$88bo8bobo10bobo21bobo
8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo86b$86b2o9bob2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2o
bo7bo6bo5b5o87b$85bobo10bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo98b$85bo
b2o11bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o99b$86bobo21bobo8bobo12bo12b
ob2o4bo3bo11bobo110b$88bo11bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o111b$98bob
o8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo122b$88bo8bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o
123b$86bobo8bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo134b$85bob2o9b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo
6bo5b5o135b$85bobo12bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo146b$86b2o11b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b
5o147b$88bo12bob2o4bo3bo11bobo158b$87b2o9b2obo7bo6bo5b5o159b$89bob2o4b
o3bo11bobo170b$86b2obo7bo6bo5b5o171b$85bo3bo11bobo182b$85bo6bo5b5o183b
$89bobo194b$86b5o!

Already seems to have wave-like structures, though the idea of having them reverse when they reach the edge is probably harder. Maybe it'll turn out to be possible with clever searching.