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Tight Salvo Synthesis

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Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 5th, 2009, 2:45 pm

This thread is for optimizing glider/object or pure glider synthesis of tight salvos. Good results are useful for making spaceship guns. It turns out there are only seven maximally tight 2-glider salvos which I have classified here with H and T values (see Dave Greene's post: here)

H and T values for tightest 2-glider salvos:
x = 202, y = 68, rule = B3/S23
80bobobo3bo5bobo4bo3bo2bobobo2bobobo3bobo2bobobo15bobo5bo4bo5bo3bo3bob
o4bobo2$82bo5bo3bo8bo3bo4bo4bo6bo7bo16bo7bobo3bo5bo3bo2bo3bo2bo2$82bo
5bo3bo2bobo3bobobo4bo4bobobo3bobo4bo17bobo3bo3bo2bo5bo3bo2bo3bo3bobo2$
82bo5bo3bo4bo3bo3bo4bo4bo10bo3bo20bo2bobobo2bo6bobo3bo3bo6bo2$82bo5bo
5bobo4bo3bo4bo4bobobo3bobo4bo17bobo3bo3bo2bobobo3bo5bobo4bobo8$63bobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2$63b
o137bo2$63bo137bo5$167bo20bo$147bo20bo17bobo$125bobo17bobo18b3o18b2o$
51bo19bo19bo13bobo3bo14b2o3bo14b2o3bo19bo19bo$52bo19bo12bobo4bo13b2o4b
o13bo5bo19bo19bo19bo$50b3o12bobo2b3o13b2o2b3o13bo3b3o17b3o17b3o17b3o
17b3o$66b2o18bo$48bo17bo$46bobo$47b2o2$51bo6bo13bo5bo14bo4bo15bo3bo16b
o2bo17bobo18b2o19bo$51bo6bo13bo5bo14bo4bo15bo3bo16bo2bo17bobo18b2o19bo
5$28bo3bo17bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bo3bo15bobobo15bobobo17bo17bobobo2$
28bo3bo21bo15bo19bo19bo3bo19bo19bo17bo17bo3bo$37bobobo$28bobobo21bo15b
obobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo17bo17bo3bo$37bobobo$28bo3bo21bo
15bo3bo19bo19bo19bo15bo21bo17bo3bo2$28bo3bo21bo15bobobo15bobobo19bo15b
obobo15bobobo17bo17bobobo9$o5bo3bo3bo4bo8bobobo37bobobo17bo17bobobo15b
obobo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo3bo3bo2$obobobo3bo3bobo2bo10bo39bo21bo
21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo7bo11bo3bo3bo$37bobobo$o2bo2bo3bo3bo2bobo10bo30b
obobo4bobobo9bobobo3bo17bobobo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo$37b
obobo$o5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo43bo17bo21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo3bo15bo7bo2$o5bo
3bo3bo4bo10bo39bobobo17bo17bobobo19bo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo7bo!


There is no minimum value for T when H =7 (or more) because the glider paths never interfere with each other in that case. The H spacing is shown with domino tic marks indicating the diagonal tracks each glider is using. For H=0 they are on the same track.

A Herschel edge-shooter (also in Dave Green's post) can do almost all 2-glider salvos (notably not T=14 H=0) but there may be optimal all-glider solutions for particular cases. That is the purpose of this thread.

Example: 7-glider solution for maximally tight H=6 salvo:
x = 45, y = 44, rule = B3/S23
44bo$42b2o$43b2o9$35b3o$37bo$36bo10$25b3o$27bo$26bo2$bo$b2o$obo3$12b2o
10b3o$11bobo12bo$13bo11bo7$2b2o$3b2o$2bo!


Can it be done with fewer gliders? I hope so.

EDIT: a correction has been made to the H=1 entry in the salvos table. Minimum T value is 12.
Last edited by knightlife on November 5th, 2009, 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 5th, 2009, 3:18 pm

6-glider solution for T=15 H=0 (derived from Dave Greene's glider/object solution)

x = 97, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
o59bo$b2o58b2o$2o58b2o5$86bo$86bobo$86b2o$69bo$67bobo$35bo32b2o25bo$
34bo59bo$34b3o57b3o2$78bo9bo$76bobo9bobo$77b2o9b2o$16b2o$16b2o$21b2ob
2o$21b2ob2o!
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby Axaj » November 5th, 2009, 7:58 pm

Is synthesis known for these two salvos?

x = 16, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
$8bo$6b2o$7b2o4$5bo$4bo$4b3o14$2b2o$2bobo$2bo6$9b3o$9bo$10bo!


I'm using this on a c/2 rake, so if there is a simple way to do this, that's be great.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby dvgrn » November 6th, 2009, 1:13 am

knightlife wrote:Example: 7-glider solution for maximally tight H=6 salvo:
...
Can it be done with fewer gliders? I hope so.

Hmm, how about three gliders? If it counts, it will mighty hard to improve this any further -- is it somehow cheating to use a quick slick kickback trick?

#C kickback reaction produces two gliders with H=6, T=-5:
x = 30, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
19bo$27bo$bo17bo3bo4b2o$2bo21bo2b2o$3o16bo2b3o2$19bo2$6b3o10bo$8bo$7bo
11bo2$15b2o2bo$14b2o$16bo2bo!

Seems as if it may be a good idea to take up separate collections, one for glider insertions in front of other gliders, one for "catch-up" insertions coming up from behind other gliders, and maybe one for edge-shooter-type insertions all from one side. I suspect that these collections together -- or possibly just one of them! -- would finally allow a formal proof by induction that all glider salvos are glider-constructible... using only gliders initially separated by N or more cells.

(Could pick a suitable N... or even say something like "N or more cells, for any finite N". It would take some extra work to prove that slow salvos targeting a single initial glider collision can construct the same set of objects as the full range of possible glider recipes... but I'll bet a nickel that nobody can find a counterexample.)
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby dvgrn » November 6th, 2009, 2:45 am

Axaj wrote:Is synthesis known for these two salvos?

x = 16, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
$8bo$6b2o$7b2o4$5bo$4bo$4b3o14$2b2o$2bobo$2bo6$9b3o$9bo$10bo!


I'm using this on a c/2 rake, so if there is a simple way to do this, that's be great.

Technically this isn't so much "two salvos" as "two pairs of synchronized gliders" -- the second collision could come up to six ticks closer to the first, or could wait an arbitrary number of generations, since the intermediate block is stable. Two slow salvos sharing one degree of freedom? Something like that.

Depending on your other constraints, any number of glider-insertion reactions will work here. A commonly-used one is the LWSS+G reaction in (e.g.) Golly's Guns/2c5-spaceship-gun-p690.rle ... but maybe it doesn't make sense to use two LWSSs (made with three gliders each) plus four more gliders to make just another LWSS (albeit an edge-shootable one)!

There are various gliders-only collisions whose dying sparks can turn a glider -- e.g., anything that makes a clean two-bit diagonal spark, or the following three-bit spark:

#C sample 3-glider collision producing a clean perpendicular glider
#C (another possible leading T=15, H=0) using a 2o$2bo spark
x = 11, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
10bo$8b2o$9b2o6$7b3o$9bo$8bo$3o$2bo$bo!

But there again you'd need a two-glider salvo to make a different two-glider salvo. So where exactly will you be getting the original source gliders in your recipe? Often the cheapest thing is to drive a high-period glider rake past the area, and follow it with another rake when that one's out of the way.

You might possibly find a "cheap" source of one set of parallel gliders -- i.e., a reaction with two spontaneously-appearing gliders that happen to be the right number of glider lanes apart -- but you'd almost certainly have to synthesize the other set carefully to match the the timing of the first set, so the overall recipe won't end up very much simpler.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 6th, 2009, 3:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:Hmm, how about three gliders? If it counts, it will mighty hard to improve this any further -- is it somehow cheating to use a quick slick kickback trick?


It is not cheating, given the "entire life universe" to do it in, but I suppose in a practical spaceship gun construction it might be a pain to have gliders swimming upstream to produce the final salvo. To alleviate the pain, with the cost of one more glider there is always the "old double kickback trick":

x = 36, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
25bo$33bo$bo23bo3bo4b2o$2bo27bo2b2o$3o22bo2b3o2$25bo2$25bo2$25bo2$25bo
2$25bo$17bo$18b2o$17b2o3$6b3o$8bo$7bo$21b3o$23bo$22bo!


The first kickback could also be done with a glider from the NE direction instead of the SW to avoid making "another salvo".

The first kickback can also be done arbitrarily further ahead of the final reaction to avoid making new salvos. If H is high enough then the salvo can be produced with two guns instead of tricky methods. I realize these ideas may not be practical either: each situation requires considering tradeoffs.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 6th, 2009, 9:53 pm

It takes only 4 gliders to make (almost) any salvo using the following glider/object method:

Use a single eater as a one-time turner to place a glider in front of another. Since the eater can be made with 2 gliders, only 4 gliders are needed. Since the eater is a still life there is the advantage that only pairs of gliders need to be synchronized:

x = 234, y = 53, rule = B3/S23
bo$2bo$3o6$222bo$202bo20bo$161bo18bobo17bobo18b3o$141bo20bo18b2o18b2o$
121bo20bo17b3o18bo$101bo5b2o13bo4b2o11b3o4b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o$102b
o5bo11b3o5bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo$100b3o5bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo
17bobo17bobo$109b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o2$111bo19bo19bo19bo
19bo19bo19bo$111b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o$110bobo17bobo17bobo
17bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo7$73bo3bo27bobobo15bobobo15bo3bo15bobobo15bobo
bo17bo17bobobo2$24b2o47bo3bo27bo19bo19bo3bo19bo19bo17bo17bo3bo$25b2o
55bobobo$24bo7b2o39bobobo27bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo17bo
17bo3bo$32bobo47bobobo$32bo40bo3bo27bo3bo19bo19bo19bo15bo21bo17bo3bo2$
73bo3bo27bobobo15bobobo19bo15bobobo15bobobo17bo17bobobo9$45bo5bo3bo3bo
4bo8bobobo27bobobo17bo17bobobo15bobobo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo3bobob
o2$45bobobobo3bo3bobo2bo10bo29bo21bo21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo7bo11bo3bo$
82bobobo$45bo2bo2bo3bo3bo2bobo10bo20bobobo4bobobo9bobobo3bo17bobobo19b
o15bo3bo3bo11bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo$82bobobo$10bo34bo5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo33b
o17bo21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo7bo11bo7bo$10b2o$9bobo33bo5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo
29bobobo17bo17bobobo19bo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo!


There are only two salvos this method cannot produce: T=12 H=1 and T=14 H=0 (of course). The "upstream" glider is required since there is only one way to synthesize an eater with two gliders. If necessary the eater could be produced with another (more costly) recipe. :(
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 6th, 2009, 11:56 pm

Thanks to Dave Greene: The cheapest way to make a 2-glider salvo is with just 3 gliders using a kickback reaction. There is only the one problematic exception T=14 H=0.

I have verified that all the other 2-glider salvos are possible with this method:
x = 189, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
177bo$137bo20bo19b2o$116bo21bo17bobo18b2o$96bo20b2o17b3o18b2o$76bo20b
2o17b2o$56bo5b2o13b2o3b2o12b2o4b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o$57b2o4b2o11b2o
5b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o$56b2o4bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo2$65b2o
18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o18b2o$65bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo17bobo17b
obo$65bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo19bo5$28bo3bo27bobobo15bobobo15bo3bo15bobo
bo15bobobo17bo17bobobo2$28bo3bo27bo19bo19bo3bo19bo19bo17bo17bo3bo$37bo
bobo$28bobobo27bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo15bobobo17bo17bo3bo$37bob
obo$28bo3bo27bo3bo19bo19bo19bo15bo21bo17bo3bo2$28bo3bo27bobobo15bobobo
19bo15bobobo15bobobo17bo17bobobo9$o5bo3bo3bo4bo8bobobo27bobobo17bo17bo
bobo15bobobo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo2$obobobo3bo3bobo2bo10bo
29bo21bo21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo7bo11bo3bo$37bobobo$o2bo2bo3bo3bo2bobo
10bo20bobobo4bobobo9bobobo3bo17bobobo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo3bobobo11bo3bob
obo$37bobobo$o5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo33bo17bo21bo19bo15bo3bo3bo11bo3bo15bo7bo
2$o5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo29bobobo17bo17bobobo19bo15bo3bobobo11bo3bobobo11bo
3bobobo!


The only improvement I can think of is to get rid of the "upstream" glider which is not possible with a general method such as this. There is no reaction with two gliders colliding head on that will produce a glider in a perpendicular direction. Therefore the only option left is to let the third glider get involved in the head on collision of the other two and see if a 2-glider salvo emerges traveling in the same direction as the third glider. That is a pretty tall order for a small improvement in some special case. This general kickback method is much better.

It is still worthwhile to find a 4-glider method that has no upstream glider (a method other than using "double kickback"), to increase the options available.

BTW, what else is necessary to prove the case for synthesizability of n-glider salvos? Does proof for 3-glider salvos help?
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby dvgrn » November 7th, 2009, 12:55 am

knightlife wrote:The cheapest way to make a 2-glider salvo is with just 3 gliders using a kickback reaction. There is only the one problematic exception T=14 H=0.

Just for the record, here's a sample 11-glider recipe for that pesky T=14 H=0, constructing either a leading or following glider (or both). It seems clear that, to construct just a leading glider or just a following glider, there must be much smaller recipes -- any licensed glider-construction engineer could no doubt cut this down considerably. So this is just to provide an upper bound, and maybe some ideas for where to go from here:

#C Dietrich Leithner's original pseudo-p14 "Glider Insertion Gate"
#C from 5 July 1995, shown here using gliders instead of sparkers
#C to collapse the incoming LWSSs to form the inserted glider.
x = 42, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
27bo$25b2o$26b2o2$23bo6b2o$7bobobo12bo4b2o$22b3o6bo$5bo7bo2$5bo2bobo4b
o$9b2o29bo$5bo3bo7bo21bo$39b3o$7bo11bo2$9bo10bo$15bobo$11bo4b2o2bo12bo
$4bobo9bo14b2o$4b2o7bo6bo11b2o$5bo$14bobobo16bo$obo31b2o$b2o31bobo$bo$
5b2o$4bobo$6bo9$11b2o$10bobo$12bo$26bo$25b2o$25bobo!

knightlife wrote:BTW, what else is necessary to prove the case for synthesizability of n-glider salvos? Does proof for 3-glider salvos help?


Hmm... well, it's probably reasonably straightforward to enumerate all the maximally tight 3-glider salvos -- and if you had syntheses available for all of those, very likely they would contain all, or nearly all, of the tricks needed to synthesize arbitrarily larger salvos as well. Then it would just be a matter of finding an elegant way to show, probably by induction, that there are no cases out there that those tricks can't handle.

Maybe we can come up with a single T=14 H=0 recipe -- let's say for a leading glider, though a following-glider solution might be possible too -- that would be enough to prove the case all by itself. For the leading-glider case, the recipe gliders would all have to come from upstream or from one side. If we can show that this recipe can always be used to add a salvo's forwardmost glider along one edge, no matter where we put the other gliders in the salvo... then we're done, right there. The only way to block the use of the recipe should be to add gliders farther forward, or farther off to the side, than the chosen "forwardmost" one... which would contradict the premise.

Unfortunately, digging up a glider insertion recipe that fits in a single quadrant of the Life universe might be trickier than just adapting Leithner's Glider Insertion Gate. All the pseudo p14 technology that I can recall seeing looks like the above version: various spaceships and/or sparks are needed on *both* sides of the inserted glider's lane (?).

With any luck some random reaction will show up that solves the problem, though: I'm visualizing a reaction that travels diagonally in space while losing population, until at the very last minute it resolves into a single glider travelling in the opposite direction. If there's no fading junk behind that final output glider, an arbitrary salvo could sneak up on the reaction and add that glider to the front of itself, anywhere it was needed.

To find the best such reaction, we probably need a good brute-force search... a variation on Paul Chapman's Glue project, let's say, maybe starting with a *WSS-glider collision. Come to think of it, quite possibly just enumerating "upstream" slow glider salvos, filtering out just the reactions that produce clean downstream gliders, and testing each one for T=14 H=0 compatibility, might well turn up a lucky reaction eventually.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 7th, 2009, 2:26 pm

I have verified that all 2-glider salvos can be constructed with the Herschel edge-shooter method (as expected) except for T=14 H=0:
x = 446, y = 91, rule = B3/S23
66bobo$67b2o59bobo$67bo61b2o59bobo$129bo61b2o59bobo60bo$191bo61b2o61bo
60bo$253bo60b3o58bobo59bobo$376b2o60b2o$438bo4$65b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b
2o60b2o60b2o$65b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o9$50b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o
60b2o60b2o60b2o$50b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o9$60b3o59b3o59b3o
59b3o59b3o59b3o59b3o$61bo8b2o51bo8b2o51bo8b2o51bo8b2o51bo8b2o51bo8b2o
51bo8b2o$61b3o6bo52b3o6bo52b3o6bo52b3o6bo52b3o6bo52b3o6bo52b3o6bo$71b
3o59b3o59b3o59b3o59b3o59b3o59b3o$73bo61bo61bo61bo61bo61bo61bo4$54b2o
60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o$53bobo59bobo59bobo59bobo59bobo59bobo59b
obo$53bo61bo61bo61bo61bo61bo61bo$52b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o60b2o
23$28bo3bo27bobobo57bobobo57bo3bo57bobobo57bobobo59bo59bobobo2$28bo3bo
27bo61bo61bo3bo61bo61bo59bo59bo3bo$37bobobo$28bobobo27bobobo57bobobo
57bobobo57bobobo57bobobo59bo59bo3bo$37bobobo$28bo3bo27bo3bo61bo61bo61b
o57bo63bo59bo3bo2$28bo3bo27bobobo57bobobo61bo57bobobo57bobobo59bo59bob
obo9$o5bo3bo3bo4bo8bobobo27bobobo59bo59bobobo57bobobo55bo3bobobo53bo3b
obobo53bo3bobobo2$obobobo3bo3bobo2bo10bo29bo63bo63bo61bo55bo3bo3bo53bo
7bo53bo3bo$37bobobo$o2bo2bo3bo3bo2bobo10bo20bobobo4bobobo51bobobo3bo
59bobobo61bo55bo3bo3bo53bo3bobobo53bo3bobobo$37bobobo$o5bo3bo3bo4bo10b
o33bo59bo63bo61bo55bo3bo3bo53bo3bo57bo7bo2$o5bo3bo3bo4bo10bo29bobobo
59bo59bobobo61bo55bo3bobobo53bo3bobobo53bo3bobobo!

The Heschel edge-shooter adds gliders from behind while the kickback technique adds gliders in front, a nice combination.

While verifying I ran accross this unusual suppression reaction:
x = 24, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
15bobo$16b2o$16bo8$15b2o$15b2o9$2o$2o9$10b3o$11bo8b2o$11b3o6bo$21b3o$
23bo4$4b2o$3bobo$3bo$2b2o!


The glider blasts through the receding debris left by the Herschel edge-shooter without missing a step, while suppressing the glider that would normally come out of the Herschel edge-shooter nearby on a different track (H=4). If the glider is advanced two tics the glider is destroyed cleanly in the debris. Advancing the glider another two tics or more will generate the normal salvo. This could be used as sort of a phase detector for weeding out only certain gliders in a stream of gliders. Interesting.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby abiessu » November 28th, 2009, 5:31 pm

Here's a p540 puffer/rake for the H=3, T=7 case:

x = 18, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
4o$o3bo10bo$o7b2o4bobo$bo2bo2b4o3bobo$6b2o3bo$bo2bo2b4o3bobo$o7b2o4bob
o$o3bo10bo$4o3$12b5o$12bo4bo$12bo$13bo3bo$15bo!


It will take some cleanup to get just that salvo out of it, but perhaps a smaller and faster rake could be designed... (For this rake, the salvo first appears at generation 2212).
x = 26, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
12b3o$11b5o$11b3ob2o$14b2o$18b2o2b4o$20b2o3bo$19bo5bo$24bo$19bo2bo$19b
2o$21bo$5bo7bo4bo4bo$6bo7bo9bo$o5bo2bo4bo4bo4bo$b6o3b5o5b5o2$18bobo$
17bo2bo$18bobo$18b2o$18b2ob5o$25bo$12b3o3bo6bo$11b5o3b2o3bo$11b3ob2o$
14b2o!
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » November 28th, 2009, 11:31 pm

abiessu wrote:Here's a p540 puffer/rake for the H=3, T=7 case


That is a very cool puffer with a lot going on. I notice that the LWSS is actually necessary in the chain of reactions to produce the tight salvo in this puffer. It is an extra task to generate salvo rakes, but they can be made by using a glider recipe for the salvo. It might be easier with several engines though, to engineer it. Also, it may end up with a very high period.

Question for synthesis experts:
Can all 3-salvo or 4-salvo glider syntheses be alternatively accomplished with just two glider salvos at 90 degrees to each other? If so, a salvo rake could be built with a single engine to produce any synthesizable salvo repeatedly (the period is not specified).
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby Axaj » November 29th, 2009, 9:42 pm

Here is a small p46 loose salvo gun. Note that I did not make this:
x = 63, y = 58, rule = B3/S23
15$13b2o23b2o$13b2o23bo$36bobo$20b2o14b2o$12b2o5bobo$12b2o4b2obo$19b2o
$20bo15bo$35bobo18b2o$20bo11b6o18b2o$19b2o11bobobo$12b2o4b2obo14bo7bo
3bo$12b2o5bobo9bo5bo5bo5bo7b2o$20b2o14bo12bo7b2o$32b2o4b2o4bo3b2o$13b
2o20b2obo6b3o$13b2o21b2o$34b2obo7b3o$34bobo7bo3b2o$35b3o11bo7b2o$34bob
2o5bo5bo7b2o$34b3o7bo3bo$35bo$56b2o$56b2o5$42b2o$41bobo15b2o$41bo17b2o
$41b3o2$56bo$53b2o3bo$41b3o9b2obob2o$41bo10bo6b2o$41bobo9b2obob2o$28b
2o12b2o9b2o3bo$27bobo26bo$27bo$26b2o!
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » December 13th, 2009, 1:22 am

Axaj wrote:Is synthesis known for these two salvos?

x = 16, y = 36, rule = B3/S23
$8bo$6b2o$7b2o4$5bo$4bo$4b3o14$2b2o$2bobo$2bo6$9b3o$9bo$10bo!


I'm using this on a c/2 rake, so if there is a simple way to do this, that's be great.


One of the salvos is just two gliders from a p30 stream and the other is a T=9 H=4 'easy' two glider salvo. This leads to a simplified p60 LWSS gun. I use a very common technique to make the T9H4 salvo and the other salvo comes from a simple p30 gun:
x = 113, y = 59, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$3b2o$3bo78b2o$2bobo75bo2bo$2bobo74bo15bobo$3bo67b2o6bo10b3o
2bo3bo$71b2o6bo19bo5b2o$80bo2bo2b2o7bo4bo4b2o$2o3b2o75b2o2bo2bobo7bo$o
bobobo80b3o5bo3bo$b5o89bobo$2b3o3b2o$3bo3bobo$9bo70bo$48b3o28bo$48bo
30b3o2b3o$49bo5b2o27bo$54b2o29bo$56bo40bo$41bo55b2o$4b3o34bobo42bo5b2o
4b2o8b2o$3b2ob2o16b2o18b2o40bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o$3b2ob2o14bo3bo17b2o4b2o
35bobo2b2o4b2o$3b5o13bo5bo16b2o4b2o35bo2bo6b2o$2b2o3b2o7b2o2b2obo3bo8b
o4bobo43bobo7bo$16b2o3bo5bo9bo3bo33b2o9bobo$22bo3bo5bo2b3o36bobo9bo$
24b2o48bo$57bo2bo4bo7b2o$6b2o35b4o14bo2bo$42bo3bo10bo3bo2b3o$46bo11b4o
8b2o4b2o$42bo2bo23b2o6bo$4b2o25b2o38bo5bobo6b2o$4b2o26b2o44b3o5bobo$
31bo18b2o7b2o19b3o6bo11bobo$50bo9bo19bo2bo2bo2bo10bo2bo4bo$40b2o9b9o
21b2o6bo9b2o5b2o$39b2o7b3o2b5o2b3o23bobo8b2o3bo8b2o$41bo6bo2bo2b3o2bo
2bo23b2o11b2o10b2o$13bo10bo24b2o9b2o29bo8bo2bo$13b2o9b2o63b2o10bobo$4b
2o2b2o4b2o7bobo4bo59b2o$4b2o2b2o4b3o13bobo15b2o9bo$8b2o4b2o15bobo13b4o
7bobo$13b2o16bo2bo7bobo2bo2b3o5b2obo4b2o$13bo17bobo7bo2bo2b2o9b2ob2o3b
2o17b2o$30bobo7b2o9bo6b2obo22b2o$30bo7b2o3bo8bo5bobo25bo$40b2o10bo6bo
36b2o$41bo2bo49bo3bo$42bobo40bo7bo5bo$85bobo4b2obo3bo8b2o$74b2o12b2o3b
o5bo8b2o$74b2o12b2o4bo3bo$88b2o6b2o$85bobo$85bo!


It is an edge shooter, so here are three exact copies doing what edge shooters do best:
x = 353, y = 71, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$3b2o$3b2o$3bo78b2o$2bobo75bo2bo$2bobo74bo15bobo$3bo67b2o6bo10b3o
2bo3bo23b2o$71b2o6bo19bo5b2o16b2o$80bo2bo2b2o7bo4bo4b2o16b2o$2o3b2o75b
2o2bo2bobo7bo23bo78b2o$obobobo80b3o5bo3bo22bobo75bo2bo$b5o89bobo24bobo
74bo15bobo$2b3o3b2o113bo67b2o6bo10b3o2bo3bo23b2o$3bo3bobo181b2o6bo19bo
5b2o16b2o$9bo70bo119bo2bo2b2o7bo4bo4b2o16b2o$48b3o28bo40b2o3b2o75b2o2b
o2bobo7bo23bo78b2o$48bo30b3o2b3o33bobobobo80b3o5bo3bo22bobo75bo2bo$49b
o5b2o27bo36b5o89bobo24bobo74bo15bobo$54b2o29bo36b3o3b2o113bo67b2o6bo
10b3o2bo3bo$56bo40bo25bo3bobo181b2o6bo19bo5b2o$41bo55b2o30bo70bo119bo
2bo2b2o7bo4bo4b2o$4b3o34bobo42bo5b2o4b2o8b2o58b3o28bo40b2o3b2o75b2o2bo
2bobo7bo$3b2ob2o16b2o18b2o40bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o58bo30b3o2b3o33bobobobo80b
3o5bo3bo$3b2ob2o14bo3bo17b2o4b2o35bobo2b2o4b2o69bo5b2o27bo36b5o89bobo$
3b5o13bo5bo16b2o4b2o35bo2bo6b2o75b2o29bo36b3o3b2o$2b2o3b2o7b2o2b2obo3b
o8bo4bobo43bobo7bo78bo40bo25bo3bobo$16b2o3bo5bo9bo3bo33b2o9bobo72bo55b
2o30bo70bo$22bo3bo5bo2b3o36bobo9bo37b3o34bobo42bo5b2o4b2o8b2o58b3o28bo
$24b2o48bo48b2ob2o16b2o18b2o40bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o58bo30b3o2b3o$57bo2bo4bo
7b2o48b2ob2o14bo3bo17b2o4b2o35bobo2b2o4b2o69bo5b2o27bo$6b2o35b4o14bo2b
o58b5o13bo5bo16b2o4b2o35bo2bo6b2o75b2o29bo$42bo3bo10bo3bo2b3o55b2o3b2o
7b2o2b2obo3bo8bo4bobo43bobo7bo78bo40bo$46bo11b4o8b2o4b2o58b2o3bo5bo9bo
3bo33b2o9bobo72bo55b2o$42bo2bo23b2o6bo64bo3bo5bo2b3o36bobo9bo37b3o34bo
bo42bo5b2o4b2o8b2o$4b2o25b2o38bo5bobo6b2o56b2o48bo48b2ob2o16b2o18b2o
40bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o$4b2o26b2o44b3o5bobo88bo2bo4bo7b2o48b2ob2o14bo3bo17b
2o4b2o35bobo2b2o4b2o$31bo18b2o7b2o19b3o6bo11bobo22b2o35b4o14bo2bo58b5o
13bo5bo16b2o4b2o35bo2bo6b2o$50bo9bo19bo2bo2bo2bo10bo2bo4bo53bo3bo10bo
3bo2b3o55b2o3b2o7b2o2b2obo3bo8bo4bobo43bobo7bo$40b2o9b9o21b2o6bo9b2o5b
2o58bo11b4o8b2o4b2o58b2o3bo5bo9bo3bo33b2o9bobo$39b2o7b3o2b5o2b3o23bobo
8b2o3bo8b2o49bo2bo23b2o6bo64bo3bo5bo2b3o36bobo9bo$41bo6bo2bo2b3o2bo2bo
23b2o11b2o10b2o11b2o25b2o38bo5bobo6b2o56b2o48bo$13bo10bo24b2o9b2o29bo
8bo2bo20b2o26b2o44b3o5bobo88bo2bo4bo7b2o$13b2o9b2o63b2o10bobo47bo18b2o
7b2o19b3o6bo11bobo22b2o35b4o14bo2bo$4b2o2b2o4b2o7bobo4bo59b2o78bo9bo
19bo2bo2bo2bo10bo2bo4bo53bo3bo10bo3bo2b3o$4b2o2b2o4b3o13bobo15b2o9bo
100b2o9b9o21b2o6bo9b2o5b2o58bo11b4o8b2o4b2o$8b2o4b2o15bobo13b4o7bobo
98b2o7b3o2b5o2b3o23bobo8b2o3bo8b2o49bo2bo23b2o6bo$13b2o16bo2bo7bobo2bo
2b3o5b2obo4b2o93bo6bo2bo2b3o2bo2bo23b2o11b2o10b2o11b2o25b2o38bo5bobo6b
2o$13bo17bobo7bo2bo2b2o9b2ob2o3b2o17b2o46bo10bo24b2o9b2o29bo8bo2bo20b
2o26b2o44b3o5bobo$30bobo7b2o9bo6b2obo22b2o47b2o9b2o63b2o10bobo47bo18b
2o7b2o19b3o6bo11bobo$30bo7b2o3bo8bo5bobo25bo37b2o2b2o4b2o7bobo4bo59b2o
78bo9bo19bo2bo2bo2bo10bo2bo4bo$40b2o10bo6bo36b2o26b2o2b2o4b3o13bobo15b
2o9bo100b2o9b9o21b2o6bo9b2o5b2o$41bo2bo49bo3bo29b2o4b2o15bobo13b4o7bob
o98b2o7b3o2b5o2b3o23bobo8b2o3bo8b2o$42bobo40bo7bo5bo33b2o16bo2bo7bobo
2bo2b3o5b2obo4b2o93bo6bo2bo2b3o2bo2bo23b2o11b2o10b2o$85bobo4b2obo3bo8b
2o23bo17bobo7bo2bo2b2o9b2ob2o3b2o17b2o46bo10bo24b2o9b2o29bo8bo2bo$74b
2o12b2o3bo5bo8b2o40bobo7b2o9bo6b2obo22b2o47b2o9b2o63b2o10bobo$74b2o12b
2o4bo3bo51bo7b2o3bo8bo5bobo25bo37b2o2b2o4b2o7bobo4bo59b2o$88b2o6b2o62b
2o10bo6bo36b2o26b2o2b2o4b3o13bobo15b2o9bo$85bobo73bo2bo49bo3bo29b2o4b
2o15bobo13b4o7bobo$85bo76bobo40bo7bo5bo33b2o16bo2bo7bobo2bo2b3o5b2obo
4b2o$205bobo4b2obo3bo8b2o23bo17bobo7bo2bo2b2o9b2ob2o3b2o17b2o$194b2o
12b2o3bo5bo8b2o40bobo7b2o9bo6b2obo22b2o$194b2o12b2o4bo3bo51bo7b2o3bo8b
o5bobo25bo$208b2o6b2o62b2o10bo6bo36b2o$205bobo73bo2bo49bo3bo$205bo76bo
bo40bo7bo5bo$325bobo4b2obo3bo8b2o$314b2o12b2o3bo5bo8b2o$314b2o12b2o4bo
3bo$328b2o6b2o$325bobo$325bo!


The leftmost p30 gun can be moved to another position vertically or horizontally if desired. Jason Summers' p60 collection has a p60 LWSS gun that uses a clever reaction that is also an edge shooter, but I wanted to use the T9H4 / p30 recipe. I am sure it can be optimized more.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby Extrementhusiast » January 11th, 2010, 7:46 pm

A nice way of edge shooting:
x = 10, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
7b3o$7bo$8bo$bo$3o$ob2o!


I might make it into a gun.

A salvo:
x = 21, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
8bo$7b2o$8b2o7$14b6o$bo12bo5bo$3o11bo$2bo12bo4bo$17b2o!


Another great salvo:
x = 8, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
6b2o$bo2b4o$o2b2o$o2bobo$2o!


It's quite small and leaves no debris.
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby knightlife » May 22nd, 2010, 5:49 pm

It turns out that a p14 tumbler can be used to create a p14 glider stream, an interesting coincidence:

x = 92, y = 45, rule = B3/S23
bo49bo$2bo49bo$3o47b3o2$5bo49bo$3bobo47bobo$4b2o48b2o4$90bo$89bo$89b3o
2$8bobo47bobo$9b2o48b2o$9bo49bo$82bobo$83b2o$83bo2$85bo$78bo4b2o$29b2o
48bo4b2o$28bo48b3o$29bob2o$30bobo2$30bobo$29bob2o$28bo48b3o$29b2o48bo
4b2o$78bo4b2o$85bo2$83bo$83b2o$82bobo5$89b3o$89bo$90bo!


In fact the tumbler can make the four most difficult tight salvos (H=0 through H=3).
The tumbler has to be synchronized to the incoming stream but can be placed as far ahead of it as desired.
The leading glider is delayed and shifted into position very cleanly, costing only eight gliders for making the tumbler.
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Re: Tight Salvo Synthesis

Postby triller » March 18th, 2012, 10:02 pm

Perhaps you tight salvo gurus can offer expert advice here.
I need the salvo at p120. My method is given, but I'm not particularly fond of the three glider pushers at the output.
Any guidance on optimization will be greatly appreciated.
x = 162, y = 188, rule = B3/S23
143bo$142b3o3$142b3o14b2o$160b2o$142bobo14bo$142bobo2$142b3o12b
2o$156bobo$125b2o31bo$126bo15b3o7bo$126bobo4bo9bo8b2o$127b2o3b
obo16bobo$130b2o3bo$125bo4b2o3bo$125bo4b2o3bo16b2o$124b3o5bob
o16bobo$133bo19bo2$124b3o$125bo$125bo$125bo$125bo$124b3o2$107b
2o$108bo15b3o$108bobo8bo5bo$109b2o8bobo3bo$120bobo$120bo2bo5b
3o$107bo12bobo8bo$106b3o10bobo8bo$105bobobo9bo$105bobobo$106b
3o$107bo19b2o$126bobo$128bo$107bo14bo$106b3o13b2o$105bobobo11b
obo$89b2o14bobobo$90bo15b3o$90bobo5bobo6bo14b2o$91b2o3bo3bo20b
obo$96bo26bo$87bo7bo4bo$87b3o6bo$90bo5bo3bo$89b2o7bobo5$92bo$
91b3o$90b5o5b2o$53b2o34bobobobo3bobo$53b2o34b2o3b2o5bo2$40b2o
12bo$40b2o11bobo36bo$53bobo35bobo$54bo38bo$89bo2bo$89bo7b2o$51b
2obob2o32bo5bobo$51bo5bo29b3o8bo$52bo3bo30bo4bo11b2o$53b3o36b
2o11bo$91bobo11bobo10bo$37b2o3b2o62b2o9b4o$116b2ob4o5b2o$38bo
3bo49b2o21b3ob2o3bo3bo2bo$39b3o49bobo22b2ob2o3bo7bo$39b3o51bo
23b5o3bo6bo6b2o$52bo65bo3b3o7bo6b2o$51bo48b2o26bo2bo$51b3o42b
o3b2o26b2o$94b3o$93bo7bo14bo$38bo54b2o5bobo11b2o$37b3o59bo2bo
11b3o$37b3o14b5o39bo2bo10b3o$45b2o6bob3obo52b2o22b2o$35b2o3b2o
3b2o7bo3bo39bo2bo34bo$35b2o3b2o13b3o32b3o7b2o16b2o9bo4bobo$56b
o32bo3bo23b4o7bobo3b2o$112bobo2bo2b3o5b2obo$38bo13bo35bo5bo16b
o2bo2b2o9b2ob2o$37bobo10bobo5b2o28b2o3b2o7b2o6b2o9bo6b2obo$36b
2o13b2o5bo43b2o4b2o3bo8bo5bobo$36b2o21b3o48b2o10bo6bo$36b3o22b
o29bo19bo2bo$37bobo50bobo19bobo$38b2o7b2o18b2o21bobo$43b2o2b2o
2b2o13bobo23bo3bo$43bobo2bo2b2o15bo23bo3b4o$44b3o15bo26bo2bo4b
4o$45b2o15b2o25bo2bo4bo2bo$61bobo26b2o5b4o$96b4o4b2o$40bo55bo
7bobo$39b3o20b2o42bo$38b2ob2o18bobo42b2o$37b3ob3o19bo$37b3ob3o
$37b3ob3o27b2o$37b3ob3o23b4o4b2o$38b2ob2o24b3ob2o2b2o$39b3o20b
2o8bo$22b2o16bo21b2o$23bo61bo$23bobo7b2o48b3o$24b2o7b2o27bo19b
o$30b2o29bobo18b2o$20bo8b3o5bobo20bo3bo8b3o$20b3o7b2o5bobo20b
5o10bo$23bo9b2o3bo20b2o3b2o8bo$22b2o9b2o25b5o$61b3o15b3o$62bo
6b3o$69bo9bobo$66b2o2bo7b5o$65bobo9b2o3b2o$67bo9b2o3b2o$25bo$
24b3o5b2o$23b5o3bobo43b2o$22b2o3b2o4bo41b2obo$23b5o47bo$23bo3b
o$24bobo36b3o10b3obo$25bo6b2o28bo3bo13bo$31bobo46bo$22b2o9bo27b
o5bo$23bo37b2o3b2o$20b3o$20bo22b4o$38b2o7bo16bo10b2o3b2o$38b2o
2b2o3bo15bobo11b3o$42b2o2bo4b2o10bobo10bo3bo$12b2o37b2o10bo13b
obo$8b2o2b2o2b2o11bo8bo24bo14bo$8b2o2bo2bobo11b3o4bobo24bo2bo
$3b2o9b3o15bo3bobo25b2o$3b2o9b2o15b2o$26bo50b2o$17b2o5b3o8bo41b
2o$16bobo4bo11bo$18bo4b2o9bo$44b2o$20b3o21b2o$20b3o8b2o3b2o12b
5o$31bo5bo11bob3obo$2obob2o3b2o38bo3bo$10b2o20bo3bo2b2o10b3o$
o5bo11b2o3b2o8b3o4b2o10bo$19b5o15bo10b2o$b2ob2o14b3o26bobo$3b
o17bo27bobo$15b3o32bo$15bo$5bo10bo$4bobo29bo10b2obob2o$3bo3bo
26b2ob2o8bo5bo$3b5o40bo3bo$2b2o3b2o24bo5bo9b3o$3b5o$4b3o11b3o
12b2obob2o$5bo$18bobo$17b5o$16b2o3b2o$16b2o3b2o$49b2o$49b2o$19b
o$20b2o14b2o$5b2o29b2o$5b2o15bo2$18bo2bo$18b2o!


Thanks for your support.
triller
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
-- Isaac Asimov
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