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Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

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Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 14th, 2018, 10:37 pm

This is a forum of trying to make a CC stable reflector with a repeat time less than 74 (therefore, without using the syringe).

These are my first attempts:
x = 140, y = 199, rule = B3/S23
7bo117bo$8b2o116b2o$7b2o11b2o103b2o11b2o$20bo117bo$18bobo115bobo$18b2o
116b2o2$3b2o$3b2o$123b2o$12b2o108bobo5b2o$12b2o108bo7b2o$121b2o$20b2o$
20bobo105b2o$22bo106bo$22b2o102b3o$126bo23$7bo117bo$8b2o116b2o$7b2o11b
2o103b2o11b2o$20bo117bo$18bobo115bobo$18b2o116b2o2$3b2o$3b2o$124b2o$
12b2o109bobo4b2o$12b2o109bo6b2o$122b2o$20b2o$20bobo110b2o$22bo110bo$
22b2o110b3o$12b2o122bo$12b2o4$13b2o$9b2o2b2o$8bobo$8bo$7b2o14$7bo117bo
$8b2o116b2o$7b2o11b2o103b2o11b2o$20bo117bo$18bobo115bobo$18b2o116b2o2$
3b2o115b2o$3b2o115b2o2$12b2o116b2o$12b2o116b2o2$20b2o$20bobo$22bo109bo
$22b2o107bobo$12b2o118bo$12b2o7$3bob2o$b3ob2o$o123b2o3bo$b3ob2o118bo2b
obo$3bobo117bo4bobo$3bobo117b5obo$4bo122bo$116b2o5b2o3bo$117bo5b2o4bo$
117bobo8b2o$118b2o5$7bo107b2o8bo$8b2o105b2o9b2o$7b2o11b2o103b2o11b2o$
20bo117bo$18bobo115bobo$18b2o116b2o$117b2o$3b2o111bobo$3b2o111bo$115b
2o$12b2o116b2o6b2o$12b2o116b2o6b2o2$20b2o$4b2o14bobo$4b2o16bo$22b2o
100b2o$12b2o109bobo8b2o$12b2o109bo5b2o4bo$122b2o5b2o3bo$133bo$129b5obo
$13b2o114bo4bobo$9b2o2b2o116bo2bobo$8bobo119b2o3bo$8bo$7b2o27$83bo$81b
2o$82b2o$67bo$67b3o$70bo$69b2o3$80b2o$69bo11bo$68bobo8bo$69b2o8b2o$81b
o$79b2obo$60b2o16bobo2bo$60b2o17bo2b2o3$58b2o14b2o$58bo2bob2o9bo$60b2o
bo11b3o$63bobo11bo$63b2obo$66bo$66b2o!


1. Block --> blinker
2. 2 blocks --> blinker + pond
3. 2 blocks --> block (shifted 2 down) + blinker + boat
4. 2 blocks --> blinker + boat
5. Block --> block (shifted 4 left, 5 up)
6. Block --> beehive
7. Block --> block (shifted 1 right)
8. Not fully functional: sacrificial block causes infinite growth
9. (Bottom): I tried to create a cenark that would work but it ended up producing an unwanted block.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby dvgrn » October 16th, 2018, 5:34 pm

Entity Valkyrie wrote:This is a forum of trying to make a CC stable reflector with a repeat time less than 74 (therefore, without using the syringe).

Ah, good. A new perspective is often really helpful in searches like this -- a lot of new discoveries seem to get made by beginner's luck, and/or by people that weren't biased by knowing too much about searches that have already been done.

Entity Valkyrie wrote:7. Block --> block (shifted 1 right)...

I particularly like the looks of that #7. Does anyone happen to know if Bellman has ever been applied to the problem of trying to replace that tub?
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Jormungant » October 16th, 2018, 7:46 pm

well, that's not helpful but there is this oscillator.
x = 121, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
27bo$25bobo$15b2o6b2o$14bo3bo4b2o12b2o$13bo5bo3b2o12b2o$3b2o8bo3bob2o
4bobo$3b2o8bo5bo7bo$14bo3bo$15b2o$26bo$27b2o$26b2o5$20b2o$20b2o$37bob
2o$37b2obo30b2o$23b3o45b2o$25bo$24bo$12bo$11b2o$2o8b2o4b2o5bo$2o7b3o4b
2o3bobo$10b2o4b2o2bobo$11b2o6bo2bo$12bo7bobo$21bobo8b2o40b2o4bo$23bo8b
obo39b2o3bobo$34bo45bo$34b2o3$49bo$47bobo$48b2o5$85b2o$40bo45bo$39bobo
3b2o3bo35bobo8bo$40bo4b2ob2o37b2o8bobo$49b2o47bobo7bo$98bo2bo6b2o$98bo
bo2b2o4b2o$97bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o$97bo5b2o4b2o8b2o$108b2o$108bo$96bo$95bo$
48b2o45b3o$48b2o30bob2o$80b2obo$88bo10b2o$88bobo8b2o$87bo4bo$87bo4b2o$
85bo6b3o$88bo4b2o$85bo8b2o$86bo3bo3bo$90bo$104b2o$102bo3bo$93bo7bo5bo
8b2o$93bobo4b2obo3bo8b2o$82b2o12b2o3bo5bo$82b2o12b2o4bo3bo$96b2o6b2o$
93bobo$93bo!
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 17th, 2018, 6:06 am

Jormungant wrote:well, that's not helpful but there is this oscillator.
x = 121, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
27bo$25bobo$15b2o6b2o$14bo3bo4b2o12b2o$13bo5bo3b2o12b2o$3b2o8bo3bob2o
4bobo$3b2o8bo5bo7bo$14bo3bo$15b2o$26bo$27b2o$26b2o5$20b2o$20b2o$37bob
2o$37b2obo30b2o$23b3o45b2o$25bo$24bo$12bo$11b2o$2o8b2o4b2o5bo$2o7b3o4b
2o3bobo$10b2o4b2o2bobo$11b2o6bo2bo$12bo7bobo$21bobo8b2o40b2o4bo$23bo8b
obo39b2o3bobo$34bo45bo$34b2o3$49bo$47bobo$48b2o5$85b2o$40bo45bo$39bobo
3b2o3bo35bobo8bo$40bo4b2ob2o37b2o8bobo$49b2o47bobo7bo$98bo2bo6b2o$98bo
bo2b2o4b2o$97bobo3b2o4b3o7b2o$97bo5b2o4b2o8b2o$108b2o$108bo$96bo$95bo$
48b2o45b3o$48b2o30bob2o$80b2obo$88bo10b2o$88bobo8b2o$87bo4bo$87bo4b2o$
85bo6b3o$88bo4b2o$85bo8b2o$86bo3bo3bo$90bo$104b2o$102bo3bo$93bo7bo5bo
8b2o$93bobo4b2obo3bo8b2o$82b2o12b2o3bo5bo$82b2o12b2o4bo3bo$96b2o6b2o$
93bobo$93bo!


I'm looking for stable.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 23rd, 2018, 5:46 am

Yay!
x = 16, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
15bo$13b3o$12bo$12b2o3$bo$obo3b2o3bo$bo4b2ob2o$10b2o9$9b2o$9b2o!


Dammit! I wanted 90 degree, and it's not even fully functional!
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby dvgrn » October 23rd, 2018, 6:28 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:I wanted 90 degree, and it's not even fully functional!

Lewis Carroll more or less wrote:But O, gentle Valkyrie, beware of the day
If your Snark be a Boojum, for then
You will softly and suddenly jump up and down
As mad as the wet kind of hen.

That particular near-Boojum was rediscovered in 2013 by codeholic. Here's calcyman's transparent-loaf near-Boojum from some years before that:

x = 19, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2o15b2o$bo15bo$bobo7bo3bobo$2b2o6bo4b2o$10b3o4$10b2o$10b2o3$13bo$12bob
o$12bo2bo$13b2o!

[play Kazyan's sad-trombone clip here]

You should take this as a sign that you're hot on the trail of a proper Snark, you've just happened to wander into a dismal and desolate valley that has been searched a few times before.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 23rd, 2018, 7:22 pm

184P41.gif
184P41.gif (51.91 KiB) Viewed 8404 times
quasi-184P41
Last edited by Entity Valkyrie on October 23rd, 2018, 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby dvgrn » October 23rd, 2018, 8:33 pm

Entity Valkyrie wrote:Almost successful 184P41 (out by four cells in 2 phases)...

If you're getting these mechanisms from previous postings, it would be good if you would include a link to them when you re-post.

This doesn't quite work at p41 anyway, since the following gliders get traffic-lighted. And this isn't a color-changer anyway, it's just an early not-quite successful Snark mechanism -- CP not CC.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Goldtiger997 » October 23rd, 2018, 9:03 pm

A while back, MikeP posted a collection of ways to trigger the honeyfarm explosion. Here are the ones that would be colour-changing:

x = 133, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
40.A29.A29.A29.A$15.A22.3A27.3A27.3A27.3A$3.C9.3A21.A29.A29.A29.A$4.
2C6.A24.2A28.2A28.2A28.2A$3.2C7.2A2$93.C$92.C.C$13.2C77.C.C26.2C$13.
2C17.2C29.2C28.C27.2C$27.2A2.C.C23.2A3.C.C22.2A28.2A$2.2A22.A.A3.C23.
A.A4.C22.A.A27.A.A$.A.A22.A29.A15.2C12.A29.A$.A23.2A28.2A14.2C12.2A
28.2A14.2C$2A71.C56.2C$42.C58.2C29.C$41.2C58.C.C$41.C.C57.C!


Have these all been tried with Bellman before? If not, then this looks like a reasonably good search avenue. In some of them, like the fifth one, I'm thinking that it might be sensible to replace the lower eater with a catalyst that restores the block, and then simply eat the LoM.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 23rd, 2018, 9:48 pm

Goldtiger997 wrote:A while back, MikeP posted a collection of ways to trigger the honeyfarm explosion. Here are the ones that would be colour-changing:

x = 133, y = 18, rule = LifeHistory
40.A29.A29.A29.A$15.A22.3A27.3A27.3A27.3A$3.C9.3A21.A29.A29.A29.A$4.
2C6.A24.2A28.2A28.2A28.2A$3.2C7.2A2$93.C$92.C.C$13.2C77.C.C26.2C$13.
2C17.2C29.2C28.C27.2C$27.2A2.C.C23.2A3.C.C22.2A28.2A$2.2A22.A.A3.C23.
A.A4.C22.A.A27.A.A$.A.A22.A29.A15.2C12.A29.A$.A23.2A28.2A14.2C12.2A
28.2A14.2C$2A71.C56.2C$42.C58.2C29.C$41.2C58.C.C$41.C.C57.C!


Have these all been tried with Bellman before? If not, then this looks like a reasonably good search avenue. In some of them, like the fifth one, I'm thinking that it might be sensible to replace the lower eater with a catalyst that restores the block, and then simply eat the LoM.


I can't even use Bellman: I don't know how to use, I have installed bellman. I even installed python 2.7.1, but it still doesnt work.

BY hand:

x = 105, y = 77, rule = B3/S23
5$89.A$87.3A$86.A$25.A60.2A$13.C9.3A20.C$14.2C6.A24.2C$13.2C7.2A22.2C
11.2A$59.A$57.A.A20.2C$57.2A21.2C$23.2C51.2A$23.2C16.2A32.A.A$41.2A
32.A$12.2A60.2A14.2C$11.A.A37.2C36.2C$11.A39.2C28.2A8.C$10.2A70.A$79.
3A$17.2A60.A$18.A34.A$15.3A34.A.A$15.A37.A20$25.A$13.C9.3A20.C$14.2C
6.A24.2C$13.2C7.2A22.2C11.2A$59.A14.C$57.A.A15.2C$57.2A15.2C11.2A$23.
2C62.A$23.2C16.2A42.A.A$41.2A42.2A$12.2A$11.A.A37.2C16.2A$11.A39.2C
16.2A$10.2A$79.2C$24.A24.2A28.2C$20.2A.A.A24.A$19.A.A.A.A21.3A$16.A2.
A.A.A.A.2A18.A35.A$16.4A.2A2.A2.A53.A.A$20.A4.2A55.A2.A$18.A.A62.2A$
18.2A!


EDIT: Sorry, I was using my custom rule, MarkedLife. It has 10 states and can be marked with 4 different colors.
Last edited by Entity Valkyrie on October 24th, 2018, 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby PHPBB12345 » October 24th, 2018, 12:20 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:Yay!
x = 16, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
15bo$13b3o$12bo$12b2o3$bo$obo3b2o3bo$bo4b2ob2o$10b2o9$9b2o$9b2o!


Dammit! I wanted 90 degree, and it's not even fully functional!


It's not reflector.
x = 24, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
21.A.A$21.2A$22.A2$15.A$13.3A$12.A$12.2A3$.A$A.A3.2A$.A4.2A10$9.2A$9.
2A!
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 24th, 2018, 4:17 am

dvgrn wrote:
Entity Valkyrie wrote:Almost successful 184P41 (out by four cells in 2 phases)...

If you're getting these mechanisms from previous postings, it would be good if you would include a link to them when you re-post.

This doesn't quite work at p41 anyway, since the following gliders get traffic-lighted. And this isn't a color-changer anyway, it's just an early not-quite successful Snark mechanism -- CP not CC.


Actually, it is CP.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 24th, 2018, 4:18 am

PHPBB12345 wrote:
Entity Valkyrie wrote:Yay!
x = 16, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
15bo$13b3o$12bo$12b2o3$bo$obo3b2o3bo$bo4b2ob2o$10b2o9$9b2o$9b2o!


Dammit! I wanted 90 degree, and it's not even fully functional!


It's not reflector.
x = 24, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
21.A.A$21.2A$22.A2$15.A$13.3A$12.A$12.2A3$.A$A.A3.2A$.A4.2A10$9.2A$9.
2A!


Sorry, I meant, it is impossible for the glider to appear in the position shown.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Kazyan » October 25th, 2018, 2:07 am

dvgrn wrote:
Entity Valkyrie wrote:I wanted 90 degree, and it's not even fully functional!

Lewis Carroll more or less wrote:But O, gentle Valkyrie, beware of the day
If your Snark be a Boojum, for then
You will softly and suddenly jump up and down
As mad as the wet kind of hen.

That particular near-Boojum was rediscovered in 2013 by codeholic. Here's calcyman's transparent-loaf near-Boojum from some years before that:

x = 19, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
2o15b2o$bo15bo$bobo7bo3bobo$2b2o6bo4b2o$10b3o4$10b2o$10b2o3$13bo$12bob
o$12bo2bo$13b2o!

[play Kazyan's sad-trombone clip here]

You should take this as a sign that you're hot on the trail of a proper Snark, you've just happened to wander into a dismal and desolate valley that has been searched a few times before.


Though the result would be periodic, it's possible that a p6 with the right spark could make a use out of that valley anyway.

x = 24, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
12.A$11.A.A$12.A4$11.2D$10.A2CB$9.A3BA3.2A$2A6.A2BD2BA.A2.A$2A6.AB2D
2BA.A$8.ABDBDBA$9.A3BAB$10.3A3B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B$16.4B$17.4B$18.4B$
19.4B$20.4B$21.3B$22.2B!
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 25th, 2018, 4:56 am

I'm moreover looking for 90 degree reflectors.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 29th, 2018, 2:36 am

Can Bellman replace the pentadecathlon with a still life? (I don't know how to use Bellman)

x = 19, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
5bo4bo$3b2ob4ob2o$5bo4bo8$2o6b2o$2o6b2o2$17b2o$17b2o2$2b2o$bobo7b2o$bo
8b2o$2o10bo!
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Redstoneboi » October 29th, 2018, 6:28 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:Can Bellman replace the pentadecathlon with a still life? (I don't know how to use Bellman)

x = 19, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
5bo4bo$3b2ob4ob2o$5bo4bo8$2o6b2o$2o6b2o2$17b2o$17b2o2$2b2o$bobo7b2o$bo
8b2o$2o10bo!


that’s unlikely, but possible. considering it requires a spark, which only lasts 1 generation, the still life would have to have a part that dies immediately after contact.
we could try other reactions.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby dvgrn » October 29th, 2018, 6:46 am

Redstoneboi wrote:
Entity Valkyrie wrote:Can Bellman replace the pentadecathlon with a still life? (I don't know how to use Bellman)

that’s unlikely, but possible. considering it requires a spark, which only lasts 1 generation, the still life would have to have a part that dies immediately after contact.
we could try other reactions.

It's a good bit less likely given that the reaction needs support by the same spark twice, fifteen ticks apart. I'm not a Bellman expert by any means, but I think if Bellman found a catalyst that could restore that block, it would probably be a complete accident, using a completely different mechanism than the pentadecathlon one. Several of the previously posted reactions look to me like more likely targets to apply Bellman to.

There are several people around here who have successfully used Bellman to find various things. @Entity Valkyrie, what kind of problems are you having getting Bellman working? When all else fails, read the documentation, actually run the example that's given, get a search to work that finds something like the Snark that you already know exists, and then carefully adjust the input and filter patterns to match one of your hopeful new options.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 30th, 2018, 3:55 am

dvgrn wrote:
Redstoneboi wrote:
Entity Valkyrie wrote:Can Bellman replace the pentadecathlon with a still life? (I don't know how to use Bellman)

that’s unlikely, but possible. considering it requires a spark, which only lasts 1 generation, the still life would have to have a part that dies immediately after contact.
we could try other reactions.

It's a good bit less likely given that the reaction needs support by the same spark twice, fifteen ticks apart. I'm not a Bellman expert by any means, but I think if Bellman found a catalyst that could restore that block, it would probably be a complete accident, using a completely different mechanism than the pentadecathlon one. Several of the previously posted reactions look to me like more likely targets to apply Bellman to.

There are several people around here who have successfully used Bellman to find various things. @Entity Valkyrie, what kind of problems are you having getting Bellman working? When all else fails, read the documentation, actually run the example that's given, get a search to work that finds something like the Snark that you already know exists, and then carefully adjust the input and filter patterns to match one of your hopeful new options.


I've downloaded python 2.7.1, but it is still not working. It still sais i hae not downloaded it.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby dvgrn » October 30th, 2018, 5:40 pm

Entity Valkyrie wrote:I've downloaded python 2.7.1, but it is still not working. It still sais i hae not downloaded it.

If this is a request for assistance, please give lots more information:

1) First, why 2.7.1? Download and install the most recent Python 2.x version, which is 2.7.15.

2) What's your operating system?

3) Are you using 32-bit Golly (the default download) or 64-bit Golly? (When you open recent versions of Golly, a message appears in the Golly status bar toward the top of the application window).

4) Have you carefully downloaded either 32-bit or 64-bit Python, matching the version of Golly you're running?

5) Have you run the installer? Did the installation appear to be successful? Do you have the Python command line and IDLE available as Start menu shortcuts, for example?

6) What error message, if any, do you see when you attempt to run a Python script?

7) If you're on Windows, when you run a search for "python27.dll" on your C:\ drive, what locations are reported?
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby wildmyron » October 30th, 2018, 9:42 pm

It's also worth adding that Python is not required to run Bellman, it's only required for the newer version of the post-processing script. To run Bellman you only need the executable files from the repository
https://github.com/simeksgol/BellmanWin_szlim and the python script for post-processing.
Make sure you run bellman_szlim_074_generic.exe when running the search.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 31st, 2018, 4:20 am

wildmyron wrote:It's also worth adding that Python is not required to run Bellman, it's only required for the newer version of the post-processing script. To run Bellman you only need the executable files from the repository
https://github.com/simeksgol/BellmanWin_szlim and the python script for post-processing.
Make sure you run bellman_szlim_074_generic.exe when running the search.


I tried that, but the program quit instantly.

I mean, the program quit instantly after I runned it.
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby simeks » October 31st, 2018, 5:53 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:
wildmyron wrote:It's also worth adding that Python is not required to run Bellman, it's only required for the newer version of the post-processing script. To run Bellman you only need the executable files from the repository
https://github.com/simeksgol/BellmanWin_szlim and the python script for post-processing.
Make sure you run bellman_szlim_074_generic.exe when running the search.


I tried that, but the program quit instantly.

I mean, the program quit instantly after I runned it.

Just to make sure: Bellman should be run from a Windows command prompt window by typing:
> bellman_szlim_074_generic.exe input.txt

Assuming you have prepared an input file named "input.txt" in the current directory.

My BellmanWin_szlim is a fork of https://github.com/simsim314/BellmanWin by simsim314 which is forked from Mike Playle's original https://sourceforge.net/projects/bellman/

If you want to use BellmanWin_szlim I suggest you start by reading http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1139&start=100#p22083 and http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1139&start=100#p30629

simsim314's BellmanWin will be faster for some input files. If you want to try that version please read http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1139&start=100#p22154
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Re: Lewis Carroll: The Hunting of the CC Snark

Postby Entity Valkyrie » October 31st, 2018, 5:56 am

You can go into google classroom and join with this class code:

53JWS9H
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