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New small c/6 diagonal ship.

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New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby velcrorex » March 25th, 2011, 7:53 am

Like the title says, here's a small (77 cell) c/6 diagonal ship. Found with WLS.
x = 36, y = 36
boo$o$bo$bbobbo$bbobbo$4bo$$5boo$5b4obboo$9boo$8boo$14bo$10bo3bob3o$
11bobo$12bo3bo$15bo$14boo$13bo9bo$14boo7bo$15boo4bobo$16booboo$17bobo
3boo$18bo3bo$21bo5bo$22bo4bo$23bobbo$25boo$25bobo$27bo$27boo$27boobboo
$30bo$$31boobbo$33bobo$34bo!
-Josh Ball.
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby HartmutHolzwart » March 27th, 2011, 10:00 am

Congratulations!

This is the first short wide c/6 diagonal ship. Any chances to see more of those?
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby velcrorex » March 27th, 2011, 4:55 pm

I'm still searching. I have no idea if I'll find any more; this ship was a happy surprise.
I think this ship is now the smallest c/6 diagonal ship. There's only two others listed in the wiki, and they're bigger.
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby 137ben » March 27th, 2011, 10:20 pm

Probably, c/6 ships are hard to find. I'm trying to find a stable eater...
I've had numerous reactions which cleanly destroy the ship, but most of the still lifes involved are also destroyed...Although, the debris left (frequently) consist only of blinkers, fishhooks, and blocks...so a non-stable reflector could be made with glider streams which re-built the pseudo-eater. Occasionally the output debris will include a single glider, so I suppose it is possible for the glider to function as input into herschel circuitry, which could reconstruct the initial still lifes. This would allow for a stable eater, but it would be quite large and slow to recover. What I was hoping was that a combination of classic still lives (particularly spartan objects, and eater 2/eater 3/eater 4/eater 5s, (simply because these seem to be able to eat a huge range of other objects). I'll keep looking...

Now the race is on to find a glider synthesis for your c/6 spaceship!
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby Sokwe » March 27th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Absolutely amazing! I searched for short, wide c/6 diagonal spaceships, and the large amount of long partial results were promising, but I didn't get very far before I moved on to other projects. I see that this spaceship has a height of 12 through its entire period (when run from generation 3 of the pattern you posted), and I assume that this is how you initially found it. Does this mean that you found there to be no spaceships at a height of 11 (I found this in my earlier searches, but I would like independent confirmation)? I take it that you have not run the search long enough to determine if this is the thinnest spaceships at this height.

velcrorex wrote:I think this ship is now the smallest c/6 diagonal ship.

It is the smallest in terms of its minimum number of cells (77); however, seal is slightly smaller in terms of its bounding box (35x36). Seal and seal pulling its one known tagalong are the only other known c/6 diagonal spaceships.

Due to the large number of potential wings, a search similar to that which Hartmut Holzwart used to find his small c/6 orthogonal spaceship might be effective. Here are two partial results that I found a while back (they're probably useless, but they give the idea):
x = 102, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
23bo63b2o$22bobo60b2o2bo$21bo2bo$20b2obo60bo$20b2o59b4obo$17bo2b2o59b
3obo$16b2o62bobo$16bo63b3o$12b2o4bo57b3o2bo$12bo5bo55bob3o$12bo4bo55b
2o2b2o$13bobo57bo$8b3o3bo60b3o$8bo2bo5bo54b2ob5o$12bo3b2o57bo6b3o$11bo
4bo2bo59bo4b4o$6b2o6b2o3b8o42b3o8bobo4b2o$5b2o3bo2b2o4b2o48b2ob2o5b2ob
2obo2bo$8b2o10bobobob3o44bo5bo6bo$15b3o2b6o3bo38bo11bobob2o$3b3o10b4o
46bo2bo9bobo2bo3bo$2b4o10bo2bo6bo4bo34bo2bo11bob3o5b3o$bo14bob2o5bo4bo
34bo17bobob2o2b2obo$o2bo12bo2bo4bo2bob3o32bo14bob2ob3obo6bo$b2o13bob2o
3bo6bo2b3o29b2o13b3o6b2o4b3o$16bo2bo2bo3bobo5b2o44b2o8bo4bo$16bobo2bo
3bo2bo2bob3obo49b3obo4bobo$18bo4bo4b2o7bo48b2o2bo5b2ob3o$18bo6b3obo2b
3o3bo46bo3b3obob3o$19bo3bo3b2obob6o48b3o4bob4o$22b3o4bo63bo$21bobo2bo
5bo55bobo3bo$28b2obobo56bo3bo$24bobob2o2bo57b2ob2obo$24b3ob2o61b2o$24b
3o2bo60bo3bo$29bo63bo$26b2obo$28bo!

Here are two related partial results using the wings in the new ship:
x = 130, y = 56, rule = B3/S23
32bo72bo$31bobo70bobo$30bo2bo69bo2bo$29b2obo69b2obo$29b2o71b2o$26bo2b
2o68bo2b2o$25b2o71b2o$25bo72bo$23b2o2bo68b2o2bo$23b2o71b2o2$20b4o2bo
66b4o2bo$20b6o67b6o$20b4o69b4o2$16b2o71b2o$15bo2bo69bo2bo$15bo2bobo67b
o2bobo$14bo6bo65bo6bo$18bo2bo69bo2bo$11b3ob2obo2b2o61b3ob2obo2b2o$11bo
2bo2bo3bobo60bo2bo2bo3bobo$13b2o6b4o61b2o6b4o$8b3o11bo2bo55b3o11bo2bo$
8bo2bo11bo4b2o51bo2bo11bo4bo$6bo16b2o4b2o48bo16b2o3b2o$5bob3obo13bo5b
2o45bob3obo$4b2o2b3o17b2o47b2o2b3o14bobo$25bo5b5o62bo5bo$5bo18b2o7b3o
42bo18bo3b3o2b2ob2o$2b3o29bobo38b3o21bo2bobo2bobobo$b4o19b3o9bo37b4o
22b2o2b4o2b3o$o24b2o9bo36bo26bo2bob2o4b2o$obo22b2o6bob3obo33bobo24bo6b
obo2bo$bo30b2o3b2o2bo32bo26b3o8bobo$28b3o5bo4bo59b2ob2obo4b2obo$28bo4b
obo5bo60bo2bo2bobo5bo$29bo12b2o57bo3bob2o7bo$31b2ob2o2b2obob2obo55bobo
3b2o2bo6bo$36b3o3b5o61b4obo2bobobo$34b3o5b2o63b3o7bo$34b2obo6bobobo59b
obo2b2o$34b3ob2o4b2o3b2o67b3o$36b2ob2o5bob3o56bob2o9bo2bo$49b3o56b3ob
2o6b2obobo$39b4obo5b3o56b6o3b4o4bo$38bo3b4obo2b4obo59bo2b2o4b3o$38bo4b
4obo67bo7bob2obo$39bob2o2bo3bo2bo60b4o12bo$41bobobobob2o2b2o61bo10bo$
44b3ob2o66b2o5b3o$46b2obo67b2o3bo4bo$45bo73bo2b2o$45bo72b4obo$45bo72b
3o$46bo72bo2bo!

On a somewhat related note, I would like to know to what extent short and thin searches have been completed for various speeds. Obviously, the lower periods (2-4) have been searched thoroughly up the their minimum widths and heights; however, it is not clear what's been done for higher periods.

@velcrorex
Do you intend to name your new ship before it gets added to the wiki, or should I just give it the generic name ('77P6H1V1')?
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby velcrorex » March 28th, 2011, 12:20 am

I used Win Life Search to find the pattern, and a 'height' of 12. Once I found the pattern I posted it to the forum. I'm letting the search continue in case it finds anything else, though nothing yet. I didn't search height 11, so I can't give you any conformation on that. I searched width 10 first instead. I was inspired by the recent find of a small p5 diagonal ship that was also short and wide.

Sokwe: You can leave the new ship with the generic name. What program did you use to do your searches? Both for the short and wide ships and the ships with wings? The partials of the ships with wings are interesting; I hadn't thought to try that. As for searches completed with other periods/translations, I haven't been keeping track as well as I should. I really would love to see a collection of completed searches.

137ben: Keep looking, who knows what you'll find. A glider synthesis would be neat to see, though it's far from my area of expertise.
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby Sokwe » March 28th, 2011, 5:30 pm

velcrorex wrote:What program did you use to do your searches?

I used WLS at a height of 11 to find the wings. I wasn't making a point of being thorough at the time, so I only saved patterns that 'looked promising' to me. I then copied the result and flipped it to point towards the upper left while giving it some sort of symmetry (glide or bilateral). I then extended the search area perpendicularly away from the wings.

velcrorex wrote:I was inspired by the recent find of a small p5 diagonal ship that was also short and wide.

I found this spaceship with a simple short, wide search, but it is clearly composed of two wings supported by a (very small) central component. By separating the wings a little more and performing a search similar to the one described above, I managed to find the following pushalong to Jason Summers' small spaceship:
x = 74, y = 74, rule = B3/S23
21b2o$21b2o$20bo2bo$17b2obo2bo$23bo$15b2o3bo2bo$15b2o5bo$16bob5o$17bo
3$13b3o$14bo3bo$11bo2b4ob2o$11b3o2b2obo3b2o$5b2o4bobo5bo3bo2bo$5b3o5b
2o4bo3bo2bo$3bo4bo4b2o7b2obo$3bo3bo4bo16bo$7bo5b4o5b3o3b3o$2b2obobo5bo
12b2o$2o5bo18bobo2bo$2o4b2o9bobo4bobo3b2o$2b4o8b4obo11bo$14bo4bo2bo10b
o$17bo11b2obob3o$15b2o3b3o5bo5b2o$20bo7bo5bo3b2o$19bobo4b2o4bobo3b2o$
18b2o5bo9bo2bo$19bo2bo2bo10bo$21b3o10bob3o$25bo2bo4b5o$24bo7bo2bobo$
25b4o2b2o6bo$25b2o2bo2b2o6bobo$25bo4b3o4b2o3bo$31b3o2bo2b2ob2obo$27b3o
bo4bo3b2o2b3o$27b2o5bo2bo3bo3b2o$35bob2obo2b2o3b2o$38b2o9bobo$35b3o4bo
9bo$37bo2bo9bobobo$38bobo13bo$37b3o9b2o3bo$38b2o9bo$52bo$40bo9b3o$40b
2o3b2o3bobo$43bobo2b2o4b3o$41bo6bo11b3o$42b2o3b3o5b2o2bo$55b2obo$43b3o
4bo4b2o5b2o$50bob3o4b2obo$50bob3o10b3o$62bo2b2o2b2o$53bo8b2obo3b2o$52b
o2bo6bo2b2o$51bo3bo$51bo11bo2bo$51bo2b2ob3o3bo3b2ob2o$54bo3bo2b2o2bo2b
o$68b2o2bo$56b4o3bo5bo3bo$56b2obobo10bo$56bo5bo6b2o$62b3o$57b2o5b2obo$
57b2o3bo4bo$62bo$64bobo$65bo!

The trick seems to be in finding potential wings. It seems that components that have only 'loose' connections to other components are the most promising, as they can connect to a large number of other components, and so provide more area for searching. By "loose connection" I mean that they only react with other components in a very simple way and only for a few generations.

I wrote:Seal and seal pulling its one known tagalong are the only other known c/6 diagonal spaceships.

I was not quite correct here. Two seals are able to interact nontrivial (but not in any interesting manner). This allows the construction of infinitely many c/6 diagonal spaceships (obviously, yours is only the third interesting c/6 diagonal spaceship):
x = 37, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
2bob2obo$2bo4b3o$bo4bo2bo$b5ob2o2bobo$b2o5bobo2b2o$6bobobo$b2o3b3ob2ob
2o$3o5bo4b2o$bobob3o2bo2bo2b2o$b2o5b2o2b2o2b2o$2b3o7bo$2b3o6b4o$9b3obo
$4bob3o4bob2o2b2o$4bob2o5bo5bo3bo$8b2o4bo2b2o4bo$8bo2bo2b2o2b3o4b2o$
21bo3b2o$14b2o5bo3bo$13b3o6bo$14bobo2bo3bob2o4b3o$15b3o4bo4bo2b4o$20bo
3bob5o$16bo3b2o2bob2o5bo$16bob2o4bo8bo$17b7obo$20bo$5b2ob3o9bo$3bobo3b
ob2o10bo$2b2o8b2obo6bobo$2b4o4bo5bo5bobo$5bo4bobo3bo4bo$3bo4bobo10b2o$
3bo3b2obo4b2o6bo$3b5o2bobo2bobo3b2o$4bo11b2obo$6b2o2bo3b3o2bo$5b2ob3o
3bob2o$6bo3b3o3b2o$5b5o3bo2bo$8bo4b2o2bo2b3o$14b2obobo3bo$9bo2bo2bo7bo
2bo$10b2o3bobobo3bob2o$17b2o2bob4o$16bo5b3o3bo$14b2o2bo7bo2bo$16b2obo
4bo3bo5b2o$16b2ob2o5bo4b2ob3o$17bob2ob2o3bo3b2o$19bo2b5o4b2o$18b2o2bo$
19bo3b2ob2o$23b2o2$25bo$23b2o$23bo$22bo2bo$23bobo$23bobo!

Unfortunately, this new spaceship doesn't seem to have any sparks that are useful for perturbing gliders; however, I hope that the new spaceship will open up this area for more discoveries.

Somewhat off-topic: When I was testing collisions between the new spaceship and gliders, a strange still life occurred as the spaceship decayed:
x = 36, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
34bo$33bobo$31b2o2bo2$30bo$27b2o2b2o$27b2o$27bo$25bobo$25b2o$23bo2bo$
22bo4bo$21bo5bo$18bo3bo$17bobo3b2o$16b2ob2o$15b2o4bobo$14b2o7bo$13bo9b
o$14b2o$15bo$12bo3bo$11bobo$10bo3bob3o$14bo$8b2o$9b2o$5b4o2b2o$5b2o2$
4bo$2bo2bo$2bo2bo$bo$o$b2o$9b3o$9bo$10bo!
-Matthias Merzenich
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby velcrorex » March 28th, 2011, 7:22 pm

Thanks for discussing your search methods, I'll see if I have any luck finding anything new.
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Re: New small c/6 diagonal ship.

Postby dvgrn » March 28th, 2011, 10:36 pm

Sokwe wrote:Somewhat off-topic: When I was testing collisions between the new spaceship and gliders, a strange still life occurred as the spaceship decayed:
...

The still life lasts indefinitely if the mirror-image glider is added as well, and the stabilization reaction produces an improbable number of output gliders. Still fairly useless, though, I suppose:

x = 39, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
34bo$33bobo$31b2o2bo2$30bo$27b2o2b2o$27b2o$27bo$25bobo$25b2o9b2o$23bo
2bo9bobo$22bo4bo8bo$21bo5bo$18bo3bo$17bobo3b2o$16b2ob2o$15b2o4bobo$14b
2o7bo$13bo9bo$14b2o$15bo$12bo3bo$11bobo$10bo3bob3o$14bo$8b2o$9b2o$5b4o
2b2o$5b2o2$4bo$2bo2bo$2bo2bo$bo$o$b2o$9b3o$9bo$10bo!

137ben wrote:Now the race is on to find a glider synthesis for your c/6 spaceship!

Now that's a race I'd like to see. Not to say the task is impossible, necessarily, but it's likely to need a radical new search utility (some novel application of hash tables to a WLS-like predecessor search, maybe?) There are well-known spaceships less than half this size (e.g., 'weekender' and 'dart') for which no glider recipe has yet turned up -- and not for lack of people looking for them, I think...
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