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Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 2nd, 2017, 3:30 pm

Golly says that the rule is invalid. Now I'm going to have to spend HOURS fixing it before I can run the Demenoid.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 2nd, 2017, 4:08 pm

wwei23 wrote:Golly says that the rule is invalid. Now I'm going to have to spend HOURS fixing it before I can run the Demenoid.

The other people reading your posts can't see what you're seeing, unless you include some kind of explanation. If this is meant to be a bug report (about Calcyman's megacell? or some specifc .mc metacell file? or what?) it will need more detail. What exactly did you do, in which version of Golly, on what OS, just before Golly said that the rule is invalid?
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 2nd, 2017, 4:17 pm

Windows 10, Golly 2.8, Lifewiki megacell, and I tried to paste it in.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 2nd, 2017, 5:39 pm

wwei23 wrote:Windows 10, Golly 2.8, Lifewiki megacell, and I tried to paste it in.

Specifically, This RLE from the LifeWiki? It's just "rule = B3/S23", so I'm not seeing any "invalid rule" error. Try it again, maybe? Sometimes it takes a while for those long RLE pages to load -- though that should just give you a truncated pattern, not an invalid-rule error.

Anyway, that single-cell pattern is not too useful on its own. Much better to use the universal megafier script to build megapatterns for you.

-- But what would that have to do with running the Demonoid? A Demonoid made of megacells is definitely not an experiment worth trying... but I suspect there's something else that I still don't understand.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 2nd, 2017, 7:00 pm

No, I mean the Megacell format.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 2nd, 2017, 9:41 pm

wwei23 wrote:No, I mean the Megacell format.

Ah, got it. "Megacell" (a pattern, a specific type of unit cell) means something different from "macrocell" (a file format intended for Golly Hashlife patterns).

The old Demonoid spaceship is indeed on the LifeWiki in macrocell format. So you are having trouble with this link, then? If you include actual links like this, it's much easier to understand the problem.

I just tried copying and pasting the text from that link, and the Demonoid is loaded correctly on my system and works with no problem. It's really important to wait until the page loads completely before you try to copy the text out of it. Unlike truncated RLE, truncated macrocell-format files don't even give you the top part of the pattern.

Try again, maybe? Make sure the last line of the text that you copy is "17 0 14 0 5851". And quote the exact text of the error you see, if you still see an error.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 3rd, 2017, 4:30 pm

I tried and it said that it could not load the pattern probably due to an unknown rule.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 3rd, 2017, 5:05 pm

wwei23 wrote:I tried and it said that it could not load the pattern probably due to an unknown rule.

What exactly did you try?

1) Go to this link,
2) wait 30 seconds,
3) confirm that the last line of text on the page is "17 0 14 0 5851",
4) hit Ctrl+A, then Ctrl+C,
5) open Golly 3.0b1,
6) type Ctrl+Shift+O (or File > Open Clipboard).

It's hard to tell what is happening exactly, but it sounds as if you're trying to open a damaged copy of the macrocell format. The above steps should give you a clean copy.

By the way, I called .mc files "metacell format" in my post yesterday. That was a typo -- should have been "macrocell format" -- I've fixed it now. A metacell, like a megacell, is a unit-cell pattern, where macrocell format is what you're copying out of the LifeWiki. Yes, it's very confusing...!
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 3rd, 2017, 5:06 pm

I have 2.8.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 3rd, 2017, 5:16 pm

wwei23 wrote:I have 2.8.

Macrocell format support in Golly hasn't changed for a very long time, so that shouldn't matter.

Can you open other .mc files? For example, try Patterns/Hashlife/logarithmic-width.mc. That has a similar .mc-format header, but no specific #R B3/S23 rule line.

If that works, try using a text editor to remove #R B3/S23 from the text you're trying to paste in. I don't see why that would make any difference, but it seems as if your copy/paste operation isn't copying the text accurately. You might also try saving the text from the linked page as a file on your computer, then using File > Open and see if Golly will open it that way.

Maybe the problem will become obvious if you paste the beginning and end of the macrocell file text here, in a code block, like this:

[M2] (golly 2.7)
#R B3/S23
$$$$$$$....***$
4 0 0 1 0
5 0 0 0 2
6 0 0 3 0
7 0 0 4 0
8 0 0 0 5
9 0 0 6 0
10 0 0 7 0
11 0 0 8 0
12 0 0 9 0
13 0 0 10 0
14 0 0 11 0
15 0 0 12 0
16 0 0 13 0
$$$$$$$...*$

...lots of lines left out here...

4 0 245 0 0
5 5838 0 0 5839
6 5831 5837 5840 0
7 5820 5841 0 0
8 5723 5781 5842 0
9 5843 0 0 0
10 5596 5625 5638 5844
11 5563 5567 5573 5845
12 5846 0 0 0
13 5493 5500 5507 5847
14 5848 0 0 0
15 5213 5219 5227 5849
16 4085 4089 4098 5850
17 0 14 0 5851

Unfortunately the full length of the file is too long for a post -- so don't try copying the above, it's not the whole pattern...!
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 3rd, 2017, 5:30 pm

I get that it has to be spaced correctly, it just takes a really long time.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 3rd, 2017, 6:16 pm

wwei23 wrote:I get that it has to be spaced correctly, it just takes a really long time.

I don't know what "has to be spaced correctly" means in this context.

I also don't know what would take a really long time.

?

Are you editing the macrocell file by hand to add or subtract spaces, or something like that? That would take a really long time! But no editing should be necessary. The text in the link should work if you copy and paste it directly into Golly 2.8, with no changes -- as long as you're really copying all the text in one chunk.

So, have you done all six steps that I listed, and it still doesn't work? It's not clear.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 3rd, 2017, 6:24 pm

Yes!
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 3rd, 2017, 8:24 pm

wwei23 wrote:Yes!

I suspect you mean

wwei23 wrote:
dvgrn wrote:So, have you done all six steps that I listed, and it still doesn't work? It's not clear.
Yes!

-- so that leaves the other two questions. I'll try to ask them more clearly:

1) What does "has to be spaced correctly" mean?
2) What would take a really long time?

The macrocell file really isn't human-editable. Here's a copy of the same file, in several formats, in case that's any use:

Demonoid.rle
0hd Demonoid in RLE format
(140.66 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

Demonoid.mc.gz
0hd Demonoid in compressed macrocell format
(33.45 KiB) Downloaded 32 times

Demonoid.mc
0hd Demonoid in macrocell format
(97.85 KiB) Downloaded 34 times

These all just open on any of the versions of Golly on my laptop, with no rule-related errors.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 3rd, 2017, 8:34 pm

Great! The files actually work!☺☻
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 3rd, 2017, 8:52 pm

wwei23 wrote:Great! The files actually work!☺☻

Good! Now, just so we don't leave a bug un-solved, could you copy the first and last parts of the text from the LifeWiki link that you were having so much trouble with, and put them into a post in a [code] box so that I can see what was going wrong?

I have the feeling it will be a familiar problem when I see it, but right now I can't guess what the problem was.
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 4th, 2017, 7:49 am

[M2] (golly 2.7) #R B3/S23 $$$$$$$....***$ 4 0 0 1 0 5 0 0 0 2 6 0 0 3 0 7 0 0 4 0 8 0 0 0 5 9 0 0 6 0 10 0 0 7 0 11 0 0 8 0 12 0 0 9 0 13 0 0 10 0 14 0 0 11 0 15 0 0 12 0 16 0 0 13 0 $$$$$$$...*$ $$$$......**$$.......*$ ...**$..*.*$$$*$*$ 4 0 15 16 17 5 18 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 19 ...**$..*.*$ 4 0 15 0 21 5 0 0 0 22 6 0 0 23 0 $$$$$$....**$.....**$ 4 0 0 25 0 $$$$$$$....**$ 4 0 0 27 0 ....*$ .**$.**$ 4 29 0 30 0 ....**$$$......*$......**$ $**$*$*$.......*$.......*$ ...*$..*.**$.**.*.**$.....*$.......*$ $$$$.*$$**$ 4 32 33 34 35 5 26 28 31 36 $.......*$.......*$ *$.*$*$ 4 0 0 38 39 $$$$*....**$*....**$ $$$$$.......*$......*$.......*$ $$.......*$.......*$ ...**$...**$*$*$$$$....**$ 4 41 42 43 44 $$$$$$*$*$ $....**$...*.*$....*$ $$.*$*.*$**$ 4 46 0 47 48 5 40 0 45 49 $$$$$$$...**$ ...**$ 4 0 51 0 52 $$$**$**$ $$$$$$$**$ 4 0 0 54 55 .......*$.......*$......**$ .*$ $$$$$$......**$.....*.*$ 4 57 58 59 0 5 53 56 0 60 ....**$ 4 0 62 0 0 $$$$$.......*$.......*$ $$$$*$.*$*$ $**$**$$.......*$.......*$ $$.**$.*$.*$*$$....**$ 4 64 65 66 67 5 63 0 68 0 6 37 50 61 69 7 0 20 24 70 $$$$.....***$......**$ 4 0 0 0 72 ....*..*$..*$..*$$..***.*$**$**$**$ $$$*$$$**$**$ $$$*$.**$$.....**$.....**$ ..*$.*$ 4 74 75 76 77 $$$$$$$..**$ ..**$ 4 79 0 80 0 .**$.*$.*$*$ 4 43 82 0 0 5 73 78 81 83 $$$$$$$.*$ *.*$**$ 4 0 85 0 86 $$$**....**$**....**$ $$$$$.......*$$....**$ ....**$**$**$$$$.....**$.....**$ 4 88 89 0 90 $$$$*$.*$**$ .....**$....*.*$.....*$ $..*$.*.*$.**$ 4 92 0 93 94 5 87 0 91 95 $$$$$$....**$....**$ 4 0 97 0 0 $$.**$.**$ $$$$$$.**$*.*$ 4 0 0 99 100 $$$$$$$.....**$ 4 0 0 0 102 $.......*$ *$*$ $$$$$*$*$ 4 104 105 64 106 5 98 101 103 107 $$$.*$*.*$**$ $..**$..*$*.*$**$$.....**$.....**$ 4 0 109 30 110 5 0 0 111 0 6 84 96 108 112 $$$$$$.......*$.......*$ **$**$$$$$*$*$ 4 0 0 114 115 5 0 0 116 0 $$$$$$...**$...**$ 4 0 118 0 0 5 0 0 119 0 6 0 0 117 120 $$....*$....***$.......*$......**$ ......*$......*$.......*$$$...**$...**$ $$$$..*$.*.*$.*.*$..*$ 4 122 123 0 124 $*$*$ $$$...**$..*.*$..*$.**$ 4 126 0 127 0 4 0 64 0 0 $$$$$$..**$...*$ $$$$$$......**$.....*$ ***$*$$.*$*.*$*.*$*.**$ 4 106 130 131 132 5 125 128 129 133 $$$$$$...**$..*.*$ 4 0 0 135 0 $$$$..**$..**$ 4 137 0 0 0 ...*$ 4 139 0 0 0 5 0 136 138 140 ......**$$$$$....*$...*.*$...*.*$ *.**$*.**$ ....*$$$.....**$.....**$ 4 142 143 144 0 $.......*$.......*$$$$$......**$ 4 0 0 146 126 $$$...**$...**$ 4 0 148 0 0 5 0 145 147 149 $$$..**$..**$ $$$$...**$...*$.*.*$.**$ 4 151 152 0 0 $$$....**$....*.*$.....*$ $$$$....**$...*.*$....*$ 4 154 0 0 155 $.....*$....*.*$....*.*$.....*$......**$ $$$$$$**$**$ 4 157 106 0 158 5 153 156 159 0 6 134 141 150 160 $$$$$.....**$.....**$ 4 0 162 0 0 $$$$....**$....*.*$.....*$ 4 0 0 164 0 $$$$$...**$..*.*$.*.*$ ..*$$$$..**$..*.*$...*$ 4 0 166 0 167 5 163 165 168 0 $$**$*.*$.*$ 4 0 170 0 0 5 171 0 0 0 6 169 0 172 0 7 113 121 161 173 $**$**$ 4 0 0 175 0 ...**$...**$.......*$.......*$.....*.*$.....**$ $$*$$$......**$......**$ $$$$$.......*$.......*$.......*$ $$$$**...**$.*...***$...*..*$*...*$ 4 177 178 179 180 5 0 0 176 181 $.......*$......*$......**$ $$*$ 4 0 0 183 184 $$$$$....**$....**$....**$ $$$$$$......*$.....*.*$ .....**$.....**$....*..*$...*.**$...*.**$*...*$.*$.*$ ......**$..**$..**$$$$$****$ 4 186 187 188 189 $$...**$..*.*$...*...*$.......*$ $$$*$.*$*$ 4 0 0 191 192 5 185 0 190 193 ..**$..**$$$.......*$.......*$ 4 0 0 0 195 ....*$...*$ $$$$*$*$ 4 0 197 198 0 .......*$......*$......*$.....**$ 4 200 105 102 43 5 196 199 0 201 *$$$$....*..*$....*..*$....*..*$....*..*$ *...*$....*$**.*$*$ .....**$ 4 203 204 205 0 $$$$$.......*$......*$......**$ $$$$$$*$ $$*$*$$......*$......**$ $$$**$*$*$ 4 207 208 209 210 $$....*$.....*$...***$ 4 0 0 212 0 5 206 0 211 213 6 182 194 202 214 $$$...*$...***$......*$.....**$ ....**$.....*$.....*.*$......**$$$..**$..**$ $$$$$.*$*.*$*.*$ 4 216 217 0 218 ....***$....**$....**$.....**$...**$.*..*$.*.*..**$.*...*$ $$$......**$......**$.......*$**.*$.****$ ...**$....*..*$.....*$......**$..**..**$.*.*$.*$**$ ...*$*.****.*$.**.**.*$**.*$****$ 4 220 221 222 223 .*$$$$$$......**$......**$ 4 0 225 0 0 $$$$...*$.....*$.*..*$.*$ $.......*$.......*$$$.......*$.......*$.....***$ ..*$**$$$*$.*$.*$.**$ 4 0 227 228 229 5 219 224 226 230 $$*....***$.*....**$.*....**$*......*$......**$......*$ ....**$$$$$.*$..**$**..*$ ......**$.**....*$**.*$*..*$.**$.**$ *.***$*.*..*$...**$...**$ 4 232 233 234 235 $$$$.......*$$.......*$ 4 0 237 79 0 $$$$$.**$.**$ 4 239 0 0 0 .*.*$..*$ 4 241 0 0 0 5 236 238 240 242 ....*$.....***$.......*$$$$...*$..*.*$ $.**$.**$ ..*.*$...*$$$....**$....**$ 4 244 245 246 0 $$......**$......**$ 4 0 0 248 0 4 0 137 0 0 5 0 247 249 250 $$$$.**$.**$ $$$$$..**$..*$*.*$ **$ 4 252 253 0 254 $$$$...**$...*.*$....*$ $$$$$...**$..*.*$...*$ 4 256 0 0 257 $$....*$...*.*$...*.*$....*$.....***$.......*$ $$$$$$$.......*$ $$$$$$$*$ 4 259 0 260 261 5 255 258 262 0 6 231 243 251 263 $$$$..*$..***$.....*$....**$ $...**$....*$....*.*$.....**$$$.**$ .**$$$$$$*$.*$ 4 265 266 260 267 .....**$$$$$$$.......*$ $$$$$.***$*...*$.....*.*$ .......*$.......*$$$$.**$*.*$*$ .....*.*$.....*$*...*$.***$.......*$......**$......*$ 4 269 270 271 272 .......*$ .*.....*$*$$$$$$.....**$ 4 274 275 0 205
(a while later...)
4 5744 0 5745 5733 5 5746 0 0 0 6 5735 5740 5743 5747 $$.......*$ 4 0 5749 0 0 5 0 0 0 5750 $$**$ 4 5752 0 0 0 5 0 0 5753 0 6 0 0 5751 5754 $$....**$....*.*$.....*$$..**$..**$ $$**$**$......**$......**$ 4 5698 5756 0 5757 $...**$....*$.***$.*$ 4 0 0 5759 0 $$.......*$......**$$.....***$......*$ $$$.......*$*......*$ 4 0 248 5761 5762 5 0 5758 5760 5763 4 0 0 0 94 $..*$***$$*$...**$...**$ 4 0 0 5766 0 $$$.....***$.......*$......*$ 4 0 5768 0 0 5 5765 0 5767 5769 $*$*$$$$...**$...**$ 4 38 5771 0 0 ..**$..**$$$$...**$....**$...*$ 4 0 5773 0 0 5 5772 0 0 5774 6 5764 5770 5775 0 $$$.....*$.....**$....*.*$ 4 0 0 5777 0 5 5778 0 0 0 6 5779 0 0 0 7 5748 5755 5776 5780 .....*$...***$..*$..**$ 4 0 205 261 5782 $$$$$$*$*......*$ 4 0 0 114 5784 $.....**$.....**$ $$$$$$.....**$.....**$ 4 0 5786 5787 79 *$...**..*$...**..*$ $**.*$**.***$......*$**.***$.*.*$.*.*$..*$ $..**$.*.*$.*$**$ 4 305 5789 5790 5791 5 5783 5785 5788 5792 ..**$.*.*$..*$ $$$$$.*$**$****$ 4 5794 0 5795 0 $$$$$$..**$..**$ $$......**$.....*$.....**$ $*$*....*$....*.*$....**$ 4 5797 633 5798 5799 $.**...**$**$......*$**....**$.*$ $*$*$*$ 4 5801 5802 0 0 $$**$**$ $$$$...**$...**$ 4 0 5804 5805 0 5 5796 5800 5803 5806 .*..*$..**$ 4 0 5808 0 0 4 0 5805 0 0 5 5809 5810 0 0 .....**$......*$...***$...*$ $...**$..*..*$...**$ ...**$...**$$$$....**$....*.*$......*$ 4 5812 465 5813 5814 $$$$*$$***$..*$ 4 5816 0 0 0 4 0 5632 0 0 5 5815 5817 5818 0 6 5793 5807 5811 5819 *$$$...**$...*.*$....*$$.**$ .**$$$*$*$.....**$.....**$ 4 5797 5821 336 5822 $.......*$$$.......*$ .*...*$..*.***$..*.*.*$*$*$*.*...*$*.*$ $$..**$...*$***$*$ 4 5824 5825 5826 0 $$$.....**$.....**$ $$$.......*$......*$......**$ 4 0 5828 0 5829 5 0 5823 5827 5830 4 0 0 0 48 $$.*$**$$$..**$..**$ 4 0 0 5833 0 $$$.....**$....*.*$......*$ 4 0 0 5835 0 5 5832 0 5834 5836 4 248 79 0 80 4 0 245 0 0 5 5838 0 0 5839 6 5831 5837 5840 0 7 5820 5841 0 0 8 5723 5781 5842 0 9 5843 0 0 0 10 5596 5625 5638 5844 11 5563 5567 5573 5845 12 5846 0 0 0 13 5493 5500 5507 5847 14 5848 0 0 0 15 5213 5219 5227 5849 16 4085 4089 4098 5850 17 0 14 0 5851
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby dvgrn » July 4th, 2017, 10:21 am

wwei23 wrote:
[M2] (golly 2.7) #R B3/S23 $$$$$$$....***$...
{macrocell file with newline characters converted to spaces}

Very interesting! In Google Chrome and most other browsers, the newline characters are displayed correctly, and you can copy the text right out of the browser window without any trouble.

I just checked Internet Explorer 11, and for reasons known only to Microsoft it tries to render the macrocell file as HTML text. That means it throws away all the newlines and replaces them with spaces -- what a mess! Reminds me of why I avoid using Internet Explorer whenever I possibly can.

If you're stuck with Internet Explorer, though, there are perfectly good workarounds. For example, go back to this same link, right-click and choose "View Source". If you copy that text it should paste into Golly with no problem.

(Seems to me there should be a way to right-click on the above link and save the file directly. Google Chrome has a perfectly workable "Save link as..." option, but silly Internet Explorer has its "Save target as..." option greyed out for whatever reason.)
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Re: Megacell problem

Postby wwei23 » July 4th, 2017, 1:01 pm

Microsoft edge.
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