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Thread for basic questions

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby 77topaz » July 7th, 2018, 2:14 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:
77topaz wrote:I'm fairly though not completely sure it would only be possible to have irrational-speed ships in aperiodic tilings like the Penrose tiling; the von Neumann neighbourhood, like the Moore neighbourhood, uses a simple square grid which is periodic, so it couldn't support such ships.

I wrote:which are aperiodic


The von Neumann neighbourhood doesn't use an aperiodic tiling, so I'm confused about what you mean.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby falsifian » July 8th, 2018, 5:54 pm

How does Catagolue-style soup searching decide what a distinct pattern is? I noticed that this double block pattern doesn't appear in any census, even though I've manually found it a few times just simulating soups for fun with Golly.

Why isn't it in the census? Is that pattern considered to be two separate blocks? Am I wrong in thinking it's not in the census? (I don't see anything under "sample occurrences".) Am I misunderstanding something else? The last explanation I can think of is this: the soup I simulated was big, maybe 1000x1000, so I can't rule out the possibility that the double block pattern arises often in big soups but not often from small soups. Does that seem at all likely?

(I think also observed a quad block once too, and that similarly doesn't have any sample occurrences. In that case, the Catagolue object page even has a comment.)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby wwei23 » July 8th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Because apgsearch separates it into two blocks.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby 77topaz » July 8th, 2018, 6:59 pm

falsifian wrote:Why isn't it in the census?


Because that's a pseudo still life, and Catagolue doesn't include those in its censuses (par a few bugs), only strict still lifes.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby falsifian » July 8th, 2018, 10:52 pm

77topaz wrote:Because that's a pseudo still life, and Catagolue doesn't include those in its censuses (par a few bugs), only strict still lifes.


Thanks; the term "pseudo still life" was useful. I took a look at the wiki page on pseudo still-life, and it talked about "non-interacting" patterns. Am I correct in guessing two patterns are "non-interacting" if after deleting either one, the other would still evolve the same way? Sorry if it's defined somewhere; I did just some cursory searches and didn't find the definition in an obvious place.

(One thing I notice about these two blocks: they are close enough to each other that, for example, if I turned off a cell in one of the blocks on the side that's close to the other block, the space in between would fill up in a way that would not if the other block were not present. Maybe what I'm observing is that you can't just construct a pseudo still life willy-nilly out of any pieces arranged however you like, so it's still a bit interesting to see which ones are possible.)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby wildmyron » July 9th, 2018, 12:10 am

falsifian wrote:I took a look at the wiki page on pseudo still-life, and it talked about "non-interacting" patterns. Am I correct in guessing two patterns are "non-interacting" if after deleting either one, the other would still evolve the same way? Sorry if it's defined somewhere; I did just some cursory searches and didn't find the definition in an obvious place.

Non-interacting in this context just means that you can separate the sub-patterns and nothing will change as a result. I don't think the term is used here with any strict definition in mind. Keep in mind the pseudo still lifes mentioned on the wiki which can only be partitioned into a minimum of three (or more) sub patterns. This means that if you remove just one strict still life from the object the remainder will not be stable - it too needs to be divided for the constituent parts to remain stable. The Life Lexicon entry has an alternative wording:
:pseudo still life A stable pattern whose live cells are either immediately adjacent to each other, or are connected into a single group by adjacent dead cells where birth is suppressed by overpopulation.

As stated, this includes strict still lifes in the definition, but they are generally excluded from consideration.

There is some discussion of this topic in the thread Enumerating Still Lifes (in C). This post in particular is relevant to your enquiry.

As to why Catagolue separates pseudo still lifes rather than including them in the census, that's a decision made by calcyman which I'm sure he's elucidated somewhere on the forum, but I can't recall where he may have done so.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Majestas32 » July 9th, 2018, 12:54 am

falsifian wrote:
77topaz wrote:Because that's a pseudo still life, and Catagolue doesn't include those in its censuses (par a few bugs), only strict still lifes.


Thanks; the term "pseudo still life" was useful. I took a look at the wiki page on pseudo still-life, and it talked about "non-interacting" patterns. Am I correct in guessing two patterns are "non-interacting" if after deleting either one, the other would still evolve the same way? Sorry if it's defined somewhere; I did just some cursory searches and didn't find the definition in an obvious place.

(One thing I notice about these two blocks: they are close enough to each other that, for example, if I turned off a cell in one of the blocks on the side that's close to the other block, the space in between would fill up in a way that would not if the other block were not present. Maybe what I'm observing is that you can't just construct a pseudo still life willy-nilly out of any pieces arranged however you like, so it's still a bit interesting to see which ones are possible.)


Essentially a pseudo still life is a still life that can be partitioned into 2, 3, or 4 pieces, each of which are individual still lives.

(By the way, the "quad block" comment was me. I think?)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby falsifian » July 9th, 2018, 12:56 am

Thanks for the detailed explanation, wildmyron.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » July 9th, 2018, 11:30 am

Is it theoretically possible to make this into a growing spaceship, with some kind of one-time use reflector and puffer?
x = 477, y = 271, rule = B3/S23
476bo$474b2o$475b2o62$obo$b2o$bo61$347bo$345b2o$346b2o45$314b2o$315b2o
$314bo15$129bobo$130b2o$130bo46$162bo$161b2o$161bobo13$218bo$216b2o$
217b2o9$209b2o$208bo2bo$208bo3bo$209bo2bo$209bo2bo$210b2o!

It moves forward at 2c/516, which is the problem.
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 9th, 2018, 1:50 pm

AforAmpere wrote:Is it theoretically possible to make this into a growing spaceship, with some kind of one-time use reflector and puffer?... It moves forward at 2c/516, which is the problem.

Theoretically possible, sure. It's not immediately clear to me how to use those output gliders to trigger the next input glider, but it seems as if that should be possible somehow. Failing that, we could just puff lines of junk to catch the gliders and get rid of them:

x = 1251, y = 652, rule = B3/S23
1250bo$1248b2o$1249b2o62$obo$b2o$bo61$1121bo$1119b2o$1120b2o62$129bobo
$130b2o$130bo61$992bo$990b2o$991b2o62$258bobo$259b2o$259bo61$863bo$
861b2o$862b2o62$387bobo$388b2o$388bo61$734bo$732b2o$733b2o62$516bobo$
517b2o$517bo48$538b2o$538b2o2$642b2o$641bo2bo$547b2o93b2o$547b2o2$538b
2o95b2o$538b2o94bo2bo4b2o$635b2o4bo2bo$642b2o2$547b2o56bo22b2o$547b2o
54b2o22bo2bo4b2o$604b2o22b2o4bo2bo$635b2o3$628b2o$627bo2bo$628b2o3$
596b2o$595bo2bo$595bo3bo$596bo2bo$596bo2bo$597b2o!

It should also be possible to puff a wick of one-time turners that produces exactly the required gliders to support that reaction. Might not be exactly trivial, because the input gliders' lanes overlap... maybe four or five identical OTT wicks on each side, each contributing 1/N of the required gliders?

I don't suppose it will work to replace those gliders with still lifes, again because of the overlap problem. Have you tried compiling a Caterloopillar with that speed, that can be modified into a Caterloopillarake?

It doesn't seem too likely that multiple copies of this could be combined usefully to make a self-supporting macrospaceship, but I suppose stranger things have happened in Life.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby KittyTac » July 16th, 2018, 11:54 am

Is a period halver possible?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby dvgrn » July 16th, 2018, 12:12 pm

KittyTac wrote:Is a period halver possible?

Yes! Sort of. There's (currently) no such thing as a generalized period halver, where you just drop a simple mechanism onto a signal lane and it cuts the period in half no matter what it is. There will have to be a little adjustment, at least, for different periods, and some periods won't be workable.

Technically a really complicated circuit could probably be designed that would check the first couple of input gliders, make sure the delay was an even number, and then activate an appropriate circuit for that delay to fill in the halfway points with new gliders. But it would be huge, and it wouldn't be fast, and let's not go there.

By analogy to period doublers, triplers, quadruplers, and so on, a period halver is something that sends out two signals for every one sent in. Our various H-to-G0s in the Elementary Conduits Collection would count as period halvers for the particular period that's twice the delay between the two gliders.

Several other examples can be found in the gun collection, particularly the high double-digit periods below 79. Here's a random example of a gun containing a "period halver", the period 77 gun.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » July 31st, 2018, 5:09 pm

Can anyone explain to me why the growing ship in the second rule here's front end speed limits at travelling at C/7? It seems really strange to me that the speed would approach C/7. I am probably missing some obvious reason. Also, is there some way to make this method have a growing ship with a front end that approaches an irrational number?
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby danny » August 2nd, 2018, 12:52 pm

I found this reaction posted by user 'Hunting':
x = 4, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
b2o$o2bo$o2bo$b2o2$2bo$b3o$2obo$3o$3o$3o$b2o!

Although it's probably been seen many times. My question is, how would I go about searching for a reaction that turns this into a clean HWSS reflector? It seems possible, although I don't know much about conduit searching.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby KittyTac » August 3rd, 2018, 2:15 am

What's the systematic name for this?

x = 15, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o3bo3bo3b2o$o3bobobobo3bo$b4obobob4o$6bobo$b4obobob4o$o3bobobobo3bo$
2o3bo3bo3b2o!


Also this:

x = 19, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3$5bo5b2o$4bobo2bo2bo$3bo2b6o$2bob2o$3bo2b6o$4bobo2bo2bo$5bo5b2o!

I think bookend-siamese-table-siamese-loaf siamese bookend-siamese-table-siamese-loaf siamese tub. Siameseception. I'll name it that. :lol:
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » August 8th, 2018, 2:46 pm

How many unique patterns are in an n x n square (meaning, not counting reflections and rotations as different patterns)? Or alternatively, how many isotropic non-totalistic conditions are there for higher ranged LTL rules?
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby 77topaz » August 8th, 2018, 5:27 pm

AforAmpere wrote:How many unique patterns are in an n x n square (meaning, not counting reflections and rotations as different patterns)? Or alternatively, how many isotropic non-totalistic conditions are there for higher ranged LTL rules?


I feel like this should be in the OEIS, but I can't seem to find it. f(1) = 2, f(2) = 5, f(3) = 102, right?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby wildmyron » August 8th, 2018, 8:11 pm

77topaz wrote:
AforAmpere wrote:How many unique patterns are in an n x n square (meaning, not counting reflections and rotations as different patterns)? Or alternatively, how many isotropic non-totalistic conditions are there for higher ranged LTL rules?


I feel like this should be in the OEIS, but I can't seem to find it. f(1) = 2, f(2) = 5, f(3) = 102, right?

f(2) = 6, which leads to https://oeis.org/A054247
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby AforAmpere » August 8th, 2018, 8:31 pm

wildmyron wrote:f(2) = 6, which leads to https://oeis.org/A054247


Thanks. Sadly that means my goal of making an isotropic non-totalistic range 2 emulator (as in a script to generate rules) in Golly is fairly infeasible, as there are 2105872 different conditions for both Birth and Survival.
Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule (someone please search the rules)
- Find a C/10 in JustFriends
- Find a C/10 in Day and Night
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby muzik » August 15th, 2018, 7:03 am

Do glider eaters composed solely of blocks exist?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby KittyTac » August 15th, 2018, 7:28 am

muzik wrote:Do glider eaters composed solely of blocks exist?

You could make a seed for an UCC made of blocks, that when triggered by a glider, constructs the UCC, then the UCC constructs the seed again, then self-destructs. Would be horribly slow and inefficient, but you asked for it.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby danny » August 15th, 2018, 5:34 pm

Do infinitely many GoEs exist in W110 or other 1DCA? A three cell row is one, I think
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Macbi » August 15th, 2018, 6:07 pm

danny wrote:Do infinitely many GoEs exist in W110 or other 1DCA? A three cell row is one, I think
That evolves from a two cell row.

But if there are any GoEs there are infinitely many. This is because every GoE contains an orphan, and then you can generate infinitely many GoEs by putting the orphan in arbitrary surroundings.

This raises a similar question though. Does rule 110 have infinitely many minimal orphans? Does Life?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » Yesterday, 10:07 pm

KittyTac wrote:What's the systematic name for this?

x = 15, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2o3bo3bo3b2o$o3bobobobo3bo$b4obobob4o$6bobo$b4obobob4o$o3bobobobo3bo$
2o3bo3bo3b2o!


Also this:

x = 19, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
3$5bo5b2o$4bobo2bo2bo$3bo2b6o$2bob2o$3bo2b6o$4bobo2bo2bo$5bo5b2o!

I think bookend-siamese-table-siamese-loaf siamese bookend-siamese-table-siamese-loaf siamese tub. Siameseception. I'll name it that. :lol:


#1: Mirrored long anvil with two long hooks.
#2: Mirrored bookend-siamese-table weld loaf weld tub weld loaf.
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This is my new favorite spaceship:
x = 8, y = 4, rule = B3-ek/S023
bobo$2obo3bo$bobo$3bo!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Postby KittyTac » Today, 12:32 am

A weld is when the two SLs are joined together with modifications. A siamese is when the two SLs are joined together without modifications.
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