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Catagolue Discussion Thread

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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby Hdjensofjfnen » July 20th, 2019, 5:15 pm

While poring through my old hauls I found this. It seems to be a haul submitted by me and subsequently rejected by me. However, this troubles me. Why would I be able to verify my own hauls? If I wanted to, couldn't I skew the results? (If this issue has already been fixed, pardon me; this haul was uploaded in 2016.)
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby Moosey » July 20th, 2019, 5:34 pm

Hdjensofjfnen wrote:While poring through my old hauls I found this. It seems to be a haul submitted by me and subsequently rejected by me. However, this troubles me. Why would I be able to verify my own hauls? If I wanted to, couldn't I skew the results? (If this issue has already been fixed, pardon me; this haul was uploaded in 2016.)

I remember some update to apgluxe disallows self-verification.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby testitemqlstudop » July 21st, 2019, 6:25 am

It disallows self-verification when there are less than 10 (20? 30? 50?) hauls in the backlog. Above that self-verification is possible (i.e. an attacker can spam 100 hauls with some extraordinary CPU, and make one of them have a fake Kok's galaxy.)
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 2nd, 2019, 8:21 am

Could oscillizer be somehow integrated into catagolue (or linked to) so we can get more info on certain oscillators?
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby Ian07 » August 6th, 2019, 2:19 pm

The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby calcyman » August 7th, 2019, 4:22 am

Ian07 wrote:The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth


Wait, this was from transfer.py rather than from collisrc?
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby wildmyron » August 7th, 2019, 9:27 am

calcyman wrote:
Ian07 wrote:The last few update processes have been timing out, this time because someone on Discord ran transfer.py and decided to submit the results via RLE rather than a Shinjuku merge request: https://catagolue.appspot.com/readsynth


Wait, this was from transfer.py rather than from collisrc?

IIUC, transfer.py was run on the results from this modified version of collisrc.py and then applied to the known objects in the Shinjuku repository. The transfer.py run was also applied to all the objects in Catagolue without a known synthesis. The complete results were posted in two .sjk files on the Conwaylife Lounge discord (#cgol channel): output_aug5_reductions.sjk and output_aug5_newsynths.sjk
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 7th, 2019, 3:19 pm

Absolutely insane crackpot idea: What if Catagolue were to become the host of the 5s project somehow, similarly to how it made the wiki's list of Catagolue-investigated rules redundant? I have literally no idea how it would work, but it's something that popped into my head.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby GUYTU6J » August 9th, 2019, 12:48 pm

About connecting to catagolue: even with VPN (sometimes a bit unstable) working well and catagolue.appspot.com accessible in my browser, apgsearch failed to upload a haul. :(
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby testitemqlstudop » August 10th, 2019, 7:05 am

muzik wrote:Absolutely insane crackpot idea: What if Catagolue were to become the host of the 5s project somehow, similarly to how it made the wiki's list of Catagolue-investigated rules redundant? I have literally no idea how it would work, but it's something that popped into my head.


It can work: Make every spaceship an object, with the following format:

SS<period>_<Xdelta>_<Ydelta>_<rule>_<canonical apgcode>, and have the # of occurrences be equal to 100000 - (its population) so minimum population ships are shown first.

Make sure it becomes a census like b3s23/synthesis_costs or people can destroy the census by uploading hauls.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby testitemqlstudop » August 10th, 2019, 7:06 am

GUYTU6J wrote:About connecting to catagolue: even with VPN (sometimes a bit unstable) working well and catagolue.appspot.com accessible in my browser, apgsearch failed to upload a haul. :(


Is your VPN browser-only? Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby calcyman » August 10th, 2019, 7:43 am

testitemqlstudop wrote:It can work: Make every spaceship an object, with the following format:

SS<period>_<Xdelta>_<Ydelta>_<rule>_<canonical apgcode>, and have the # of occurrences be equal to 100000 - (its population) so minimum population ships are shown first.

Make sure it becomes a census like b3s23/synthesis_costs or people can destroy the census by uploading hauls.


Good idea! I think the closer analogue is to make every velocity an object with the format velocity<period>_<xdelta>_<ydelta>, and include spaceships attaining that velocity as metadata (in the same way we store sample occurrences and glider syntheses).

More fundamentally, though, what would be the advantage of hosting this on Catagolue rather than the existing system?
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby testitemqlstudop » August 10th, 2019, 7:49 am

The current hosting on the wiki is broken and requires human updating. The Google Drive hosting - I can't access, and it's also sorted in a terrifically annoying way. Catagolue may allow the updating to be done autonomously and also allow for easy browsing.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby Saka » August 10th, 2019, 7:57 am

calcyman wrote:More fundamentally, though, what would be the advantage of hosting this on Catagolue rather than the existing system?

Currently, the most up-to-date collection is located at the 5S Google Drive folder as *.txt files. Those files simply contain a list of all ships, and the only separation is by the direction they go in, orthogonal, diagonal, or oblique.

If we put the collection on Catagolue, this would make the collection more accessible and easier to look at / browse through. Although I think the main challenge once this goes up is keeping the Catagolue version up to date, but that should be easier than updating the wiki (I think).

Another problem I can think of are the pages for high-but-=<-100-period ships, since they would be very laggy as there would be lots of ships, each having an animated SVG.

I also think that we need a better way to organize the ships. If we only organize by periods, there would be all of the orthogonals, diagonals, and obliques in each period's tabulation page, which I don't really like because you can't easily tell the direction of the ships in the SVGs, but I guess that's the purpose of including the displacement values in the apgcode.

I also don't think we need to include the rule, as the rule range is displayed on the object page, and it would make the tabulations look nicer in my opinion.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 11th, 2019, 9:30 pm

There's a few things that come to mind, if it's to be like the current tabulation:

- Should we come up with a new set of colours for the key that fit better with Catagolue's colour theme?

- The big summary table would have a tab system of sorts, like I've had in mind for a year or so now, so we can control all three values. The bit at the top would have to get thicker and thicker to prevent duplicate entries as we modify one of the displacement values, though.

- The big summary table could also continue on infinitely in all three directions, but split across pages in reasonable increments (144 seems reasonable to me).

- Would it even be worth having the more in-depth pages anyway, or should we scrap them in favour of a summary table? All the info about the ships would be accessible by clicking on the number anyway.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby GUYTU6J » August 12th, 2019, 10:10 am

Hauls submitted to b3s23/C1 that contains 100 million soups will be deleted, right?
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 12th, 2019, 8:27 pm

The Pattern RLE isnt displaying right; the letters should be capitalized and have slashes preceding them.

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 4k23l01234
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby testitemqlstudop » August 13th, 2019, 12:20 am

GUYTU6J wrote:Hauls submitted to b3s23/C1 that contains 100 million soups will be deleted, right?

Not if they have a discovery

Rule of thumb: 1billion soups+ will most likely have a discovery
For example my sevaral 10billion soup hauls had 10, 12 discoveries.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby GUYTU6J » August 13th, 2019, 12:44 pm

testitemqlstudop wrote:Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.

Um, since ghcu redirects to catagolue.appspot.com automatically, I am still blocked.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby calcyman » August 13th, 2019, 1:45 pm

GUYTU6J wrote:
testitemqlstudop wrote:Also, apgsearch uploads to gol.hatsya.co.uk by default; it shouldn't fail since ghcu isn't blocked.

Um, since ghcu redirects to catagolue.appspot.com automatically, I am still blocked.


Not if you type https://gol.hatsya.co.uk/home (or /census, or whatever). The redirect-to-HTTPS is only if you visit the bare domain.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 13th, 2019, 5:58 pm

Can catagolue be made to display minimum and maximum rules for hex patterns?

https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq ... 102/b2s34h
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 15th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Could the LifeViewer embedded on pages have the grid be disabled and instead have cellborders turned on, to better for how the animated images look?

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B2in3/S123a
b2o$o2bo$4bo$4bo$3bo!
[[ THEME Catagolue CELLBORDERS ]]
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 16th, 2019, 7:52 am

I've opened a merge request that contains a big sample of new rule aliases.
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Re: Catagolue Discussion Thread

Postby muzik » August 16th, 2019, 12:14 pm

Since I don't know how to contribute names to patterns:

"12P2" should become Lei
R-bee on beehive and Hexagonal key should be wiki linked
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xq4_1ba4/b3s2-i34q should be named Ant
https://catagolue.appspot.com/object/xp ... 2t50s41t59 should be named Kiwi-grandma
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