The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:Hmm. Adding a block here extracts a glider, and protects the catalyst from immediate destruction, and gets a Herschel out to the north. But it's probably still a bit too messy to be a very likely candidate for a complete cleanup:

Hmm. Maybe run the south area's late evolution through catgl just in case; that's where the troublesome debris shows up.
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

A possibly known H-to-glider:
`x = 25, y = 31, rule = B3/S2310bo\$10b3o\$13bo\$12b2o\$23b2o\$23bo\$21bobo\$21b2o4\$2o\$bo\$bobo17b2obo\$2b2o17bob2o7\$2bo\$2bobo\$2b3o\$4bo2\$14b2o\$14b2o2b2o\$18bobo\$20bo\$20b2o!`

An R-to-glider:
`x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S234b2o\$4b2o5\$17b2o\$17bo\$15bobo\$15b2o2\$2o\$b2o\$bo3\$7b2o\$7b2o!`
I Like My Heisenburps! (and others)

Extrementhusiast

Posts: 1794
Joined: June 16th, 2009, 11:24 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Extrementhusiast wrote:A possibly known H-to-glider...

That looks like a new Spartan NW15 ([b]EDIT: using NW newlanes here now). NW8 and NW17 are the nearest ones in the old collection. I haven't gone back and hunted through the last several years of forum postings to collect all the H-to-G's yet, though -- it's possible Guam or someone found a NW15. Someone should start a new thread to get these things organized...!

Extrementhusiast wrote:An R-to-glider...

Hm, I think that one's new too. It combines with one of the known H-to-R to make a passable H-to-G7; we already have one of those (and not much use for it that I know of) but it looks quite different. New one on the left, old one on the right, both with a F117 conduit leading in:

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`#C [[ VIEWONLY HEIGHT 240 ZOOM 3.5 THUMBNAIL ]]x = 178, y = 59, rule = LifeHistory61.A\$61.3A\$64.A\$63.2A\$63.6B\$65.5B\$63.7B\$62.8B\$63.6B\$62.7B.2B\$58.3B2.8B2A60.4B3.4B\$56.15B2A61.4B3.4B\$56.13B.2B63.4B3.4B\$55.2A13B66.4B3.4B\$55.2AB.10B.2B65.4B3.4B\$56.B2.15B64.4B3.4B\$59.8BD6B65.4B3.4B5.2A\$60.6B3D5B66.4B3.4B3.B2AB\$62.4BD7B67.4B3.4B2.3B\$62.11B69.4B3.4B2.B.B\$62.9B72.4B3.8B\$60.11B73.4B3.7B\$60.10B75.4B2.7B\$59.12B75.4B.7B\$58.14B75.12B4.2A\$57.18B73.11B3.A.A\$56.18B2A71.13B2.BA\$55.19B2A70.17B\$54.21B71.17B\$53.18B67.2A6.18B.3B\$30.2A20.18B50.2A17.A6.23B\$31.A19.19B51.A17.A.AB4.23B\$18.A11.A19.19B39.A11.A19.2AB.27B\$18.3A9.2A17.23B36.3A9.2A20.30B\$21.A9.B16.24B39.A9.B20.31B\$8.2A10.2A9.3B13.4B2.20B25.2A10.2A9.3B19.32B\$9.A10.5B5.6B10.4B2.22B25.A10.5B5.6B16.34B\$9.A.AB9.4B3.10B6.4B.24B25.A.AB9.4B3.10B11.36B\$10.2AB.3B4.6B2.11B3.30B27.2AB.3B4.6B2.11B8.39B\$12.7B.13B2A15BD13B.10B27.7B.13B2A15BD35B2A\$12.21B2A15BDBD4B.7B2.2B4.2A27.21B2A15BDBD4B.28B2A\$13.37B3D4B2.3B.B4.B4.A29.37B3D4B.29B\$12.40BD4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A25.40BD4B.8B3.15B\$10.46B4.BA2.A4.A6.A23.46B.9B4.3B.9B\$8.18B.B3.13B.4B12.3A5.A.A26.18B.B3.13B.4B6.10B.2B3.B3.7B\$8.2BC13B7.10B3.4B22.2A26.2BC13B7.10B3.4B5.14B2A\$7.3BCBC4B.6B12.4B3.4B14.3A33.3BCBC4B.6B19.4B5.15B2A\$8.2B3C4B2.B.5B9.4B3.4B15.A2.A33.2B3C4B2.B.5B17.2A6.17B\$7.5BC4B7.2A8.4B3.4B18.2A32.5BC4B7.2A18.A7.13B\$6.10B8.A8.4B3.4B52.10B8.A16.3A11.10B\$5.4B16.3A4.4B3.4B52.4B16.3A13.A13.11B\$4.4B19.A3.4B3.4B52.4B19.A27.10B\$3.B2AB23.4B3.4B52.B2AB49.8B\$2.3BA23.4B3.4B52.3BA53.3B\$.B3A23.4B3.4B52.B3A55.4B\$2BAB23.4B3.4B52.2BAB58.2A\$26.4B3.4B115.A\$25.4B3.4B117.3A\$24.4B3.4B120.A!`

dvgrn
Moderator

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Is this R-to-Pi known?

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`#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART LOOP 40 GPS 10 ]]x = 16, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory3.2A\$3.2A2\$3.4A3.2A\$3.A2.AB.B2AB\$4.3B2.B.2B\$2.B2.7B\$.12B\$13B3D\$B2C12BD\$2B2C9B3D\$2BC11B\$5B.4B\$10B\$8B\$6B\$.4B!`
Sphenocorona

Posts: 480
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:Unfortunately this new variant isn't quite Spartan either, or it would be quite handy in self-constructing circuitry.

Here is a 6 SL seed for the eater on eater:

`x = 23, y = 18, rule = B3/S2311b2o\$11b2o5\$2o\$2o4bo4b2o\$5bobo2bo2bo\$5b2o4b2o\$21b2o\$21b2o\$8b2o\$8bobo\$9bo\$b3o\$3bo\$2bo!`

It was found with the help of Catagolue http://catagolue.appspot.com/object?apg ... rule=b3s23
chris_c

Posts: 905
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Sphenocorona wrote:Is this R-to-Pi known?

No, but it doesn't quite look like a usable conduit -- there are only a dozen ticks to do anything with the pi before the block catalyst is irretrievably threatened. Might get an R-to-G out of it somehow, but I don't think the pi output can be attached to any known components.

Without the extra block, the table performs the standard R-to-B conversion. I seem to recall the table catalysis has been seen before, though it's not in Calcyman's conduit collection -- I've added it here:

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`#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL X 0 Y 0 ZOOM 4.62 HEIGHT 240 ]]x = 135, y = 43, rule = LifeHistory41.5D29.5D\$41.D4.D28.D4.D\$41.D5.D15.D11.D5.D\$41.D5.D16.D10.D5.D\$41.D5.D17.D9.D5.D\$41.D4.D19.D8.D4.D\$41.5D9.13D7.5D\$41.D2.D21.D8.D4.D\$41.D3.D19.D9.D5.D\$41.D3.D18.D10.D5.D\$41.D4.D16.D11.D5.D\$41.D4.D28.D4.D\$41.D5.D27.5D7\$112.B\$111.2B\$110.3B\$109.4B\$7.D29.D29.D29.D10.4B15.D\$6.3D27.3D27.3D27.3D8.4B15.3D\$5.2D2BD25.2D2BD25.2D2BD4.2A19.2D2BD6.4B15.2DB.D\$4.6B24.6B24.6B4.A19.6B5.4B15.4B.B\$4.6B24.6B24.6B.BA.A19.6B4.4B16.6B\$3.7B23.7B23.7B.B2A19.7B3.4B16.7B\$4.8B22.8B22.8B22.12B18.8B\$4.8B22.8B22.7B23.11B19.8B\$4.9B18.AB.9B21.7B23.10B18.B.9B\$3.10B17.A.A10B20.7B4.B18.10B.B16.2A10B\$4.10B16.2A.7B.3B20.6B.B.2BA18.8B.2BA15.A.11B\$3.12B20.10B18.11BA.A16.11BA.A11.2A.A.B.10B\$3.5BD6B20.3BD6B18.4B.D4B.BA17.5BD4B.BA12.2A.2A2.3BD6B\$3.4B3D5B19.3B3D5B19.3B3D3B20.4B3D3B21.3B3D5B\$3.4BD7B20.2BD7B20.2BD5B22.2BD4B23.2BD7B\$2.12B22.8B22.6B24.6B24.8B\$.2A2B96.B2A\$A2BAB96.BA.A\$ABAB100.A\$.A2B100.2A!`

dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

chris_c wrote:
dvgrn wrote:Unfortunately this new variant isn't quite Spartan either, or it would be quite handy in self-constructing circuitry.

Here is a 6 SL seed for the eater on eater...

That's a pretty nice one! For this purpose the rightmost block can usually be omitted, since it only suppresses a block that could be won't get in the way of the catalyst.

It's also convenient that this is the same still life needed for the old F116 conduit. In Spartan constructible circuitry so far, only the F116 variant followed by F166 or Lx200 has been allowable. This is unfortunate, because circuits are generally useful in inverse proportion to their size and timing. That means that in your average unconstrained Hersrch search from (0,0,0) to big (X,Y,T), F116s are part of the best solutions a lot -- probably more often than anything besides Fx77.

That said, even a 6sL seed is fairly expensive... especially since you have to account for construction direction, and three quarters of the time it will be necessary to build an extra boat-or-something to bounce a final glider in to trigger the seed. Also the eater-on-eater will usually have to be constructed first, which causes all kinds of headaches for some orientations. For the H-to-G6, the nearby eater will have to be built after the eater-on-eater seed is triggered, and the same is (just barely) true for the nearby block in the F116.

We're pretty close to having workable scripts for "compiling" any regular Spartan pattern into either a one-arm or a two-arm slow-salvo construction recipe. None of the pieces are much bigger or more difficult to build than any other piece, so we can always work incrementally from the most distant still lifes back toward the shotgun(s).

Throwing in eater-on-eaters or spark coils or tub-with-tail eaters or eater2s or any other larger-but-incredibly-useful objects into constructible circuitry means that, well, somebody has to do a lot more coding.

And it's not really clear what the payoff will be. Circuitry with these catalysts in it will be smaller and more efficient (lower repeat time) than the pure-Spartan version of the same circuit. But so far it's not really clear that it will be enough smaller. It's possible that the extra cost of the Spartan++ objects will make the final construction recipe longer and slower overall.

(I don't really believe that -- it's probably significantly more efficient for (most) self-constructing circuity to use some Spartan++ objects... maybe even a Snark here or there, for all I know. But it will probably take an order of magnitude longer to get an automated compiler working with such objects. Same with compiling Spartan++ circuitry recipes by hand, which is how I've been doing all the Spartan Geminoid self-constructing patterns so far.)

To make a given object really painless to use in self-constructing circuitry, it will be necessary to collect a large set of construction recipes for it, similar to what was done for the fishhook eater. For each orientation we'll need a recipe that builds the object at the back edge of its reaction envelope, and one on the left edge, and one on the right edge. Once we've collected all of those recipes for some non-Spartan object, it becomes just as good as any Spartan object (except for the extra cost in gliders.)

But even with Guam's work on tub-with-tail eaters and spark coils (links above) we're not anywhere near there yet.

dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Why have I not seen these converters before?

`x = 18, y = 33, rule = B3/S2316b2o\$16bo\$14bobo\$5b2o7b2o\$5bobo\$6b2o\$2b2o\$bobo\$bo\$2o\$5b2o4bo\$5b2o3b3o\$9b2obo11\$5b2o\$5bobo\$6b2o\$2b2o\$bobo\$bo\$2o\$5b2o4bo\$5b2o3b3o\$9b2obo!`
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Kazyan wrote:Why have I not seen these converters before?

Wow! Apparently, because nobody has ever done the search you just did for ways to use the ship+eater catalyst.

It's not terribly easy to connect the inputs and outputs in the B-to-R, but it can certainly be done. Here's a very nice L200, which I assume I would know about if it had already been invented. We have an L198 and an Lx200, but this is something new and different:

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`x = 49, y = 61, rule = LifeHistory34.2A\$33.A2.A\$34.2A4\$33.8B\$33.9B\$33.9B\$33.9B\$34.4B3DB\$35.4BD2B\$35.2B3D2B\$36.6B\$36.7B\$36.8B\$37.8B\$37.9B\$36.6B.3B\$36.7B.2B\$37.6B2.B\$37.6B\$37.6B\$36.8B\$35.8B\$35.9B\$35.9B\$34.10B\$34.3B2A5B\$33.4B2A5B\$33.11B\$28.2A.A7BD4B\$28.A.2A2.4B3D2B\$35.2B2D2BD4.2A\$36.6B4.A\$36.6B.BA.A\$35.7B.B2A\$30.A5.8B\$30.3A3.7B\$7.2A24.A2.7B\$8.A13.2A6.3A2.7B4.B\$8.A.AB9.B2A2B4.A5.6B.B.2BA\$9.2AB.3B6.4B.3B5.11BA.A\$11.7B2.11B4.5BD4B.BA\$11.22B.B.3B3D3B\$12.27BD5B\$11.25B2D7B\$9.28B2D6B\$7.29B2D6B\$7.2BC26BD7B\$6.3BCBC4B.24B.3B\$7.2B3C4B2.16B2.B.B3.B2A\$6.5BC4B2.7B.4B6.B2AB2.BA.A\$5.10B4.6B2.2B8.2A4.B2A\$4.4B11.6B16.4B\$4.3B13.3B18.2A\$2.4B12.7B17.A\$2.2A14.2A.B.2A14.3A\$3.A15.A3.A15.A\$3A13.3A5.3A\$A15.A9.A!#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ]]`

Very close to Spartan, too, though the hat and the ship+eater might be a little tricky in some orientations. There's never been any particular reason to slow-construct a hat before (or a ship, either, unless I'm forgetting something).

The H-to-G is new also, of course -- it's a little harder to hook up than the H-to-R, actually, since the output glider means that the above hat trick doesn't work. But there are options:

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`#C new H-to-G, path 56x = 57, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory40.B\$40.2B\$7.2A31.3B\$8.A14.2A15.4B\$8.A.AB10.B2AB15.4B\$9.2AB.2B7.4B6.4B6.4B\$11.5B6.4B5.6B6.4B9.A\$5.2A4.7B4.5B4.8B5.4B6.3A\$5.A5.7B3.7B.12B4.4B4.A\$6.3A2.7B.17B.4B.B2.5B.B.2A\$8.A24BD10BD10B\$10.23B2D10BD7B\$11.21B2D11B2D6B\$11.33B2D6B\$2.2A3.2A.B.19B.12BD7B\$2.A.A.A.A23B.B2.13B.3B\$4.A.A.B.21B5.2B2.2B2.B.B3.B2A\$3.2A.2A22B7.AB5.B2AB2.BA.A\$7.B.21B6.A.A6.2A4.B2A\$9.19B8.2A11.4B\$10.13B2.2B22.2A\$11.11B28.A\$8.14B25.3A\$7.15B25.A\$7.14B\$7.12B\$7.B3C4B.2B\$7.2BC4B\$7.2B3C2B\$7.6B\$6.7B\$5.4B.B\$4.4B\$4.3B\$2.2AB\$.A.AB\$.A\$2A!#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ]]`

Maybe the nicest thing about this converter is that it hooks up nicely to a Herschel receiver -- a near-Spartan circuit again, this time made slightly awkward by a spark coil instead of a hat.

So we at last have a way to turn a tandem glider 90 degrees, without mirror-reflecting it, that's reasonably compact and has the best possible compression rate of 117 ticks. The L200 itself recovers in as little as 59 ticks if you suppress the output Herschel's glider; that's very nearly as good as any Herschel conduit can manage.

Time for some congratulatory fireworks, I think!

Code: Select all
`#C L200 + Herschel transceiver emu loop#C [[ AUTOSTART LOOP 5616 ZOOM 3.6 THEME 2 ANGLE 45 ]]x = 168, y = 168, rule = B3/S2389b2o\$88bobo\$76b2o3b2o5bo\$76bobobobo4b2o\$78bobo\$76bobobobo\$76b2o3b2o7\$81b3o\$82bo\$82b3o7b2o\$92bobo\$94bo\$94b2o13\$83b2o\$83b2o22b2o\$107b2o\$90bob2o\$90b2obo\$74b2o33b2o\$75bo33b2o\$75bobo44b2o\$76b2o44bo\$120bobo\$120b2o\$42b2o80b2o\$42b2o67b2o11b2o\$38bo35bo35b2o3bo\$38b3o32bobo33bo6bo\$41bo32bo20b2o11bo3bo3b7o\$40b2o11bo40b2obo11bo2bobob4o\$52bobo7b2o30bo2bo12b6obobo3bo\$52bobo7b2o25b3ob2ob2o17b2o4b2o3b2o\$53bo35bo2b2o2bo19bo8bo2bo\$89bo5bo29bobo\$90b2o2bo24bo6bo\$92b2o24b2o\$77b2o33bo5bo\$50b2o24bobo4b2o7bo19bo\$50b2o24b2o5b2o6bobo18bo\$36b2o54b2o\$36b2o41b2o\$32b2o45bo48b3o\$32b2o46b3o45bo\$82bo46bo\$118b2o\$118b2o5\$133b2o\$132b2o\$134bo2\$18bo\$16b3o103bo\$15bo18b2o20b2o63bobo7bo\$15b2o17bo20bobo64bo6b3o\$35bo20bo54b2o15bo32b2ob2o\$2o32b2o75bobo14b2o31bo3bo\$o111b2o48b3o\$b3o104b2o\$3bo103bobo52b3o\$107bo46bo6bo3bo\$106b2o44b3o6b2ob2o\$15bo15b2o22b2o54b2o22b2o15bobo\$13bobo15b2o22b2o54b2o22b2o15bo\$2b2ob2o6b3o44b2o\$2bo3bo6bo46bo\$3b3o52bobo103bo\$58b2o104b3o\$3b3o48b2o60b3o48bo\$2bo3bo31b2o14bobo58bo2bo13b2o32b2o\$2b2ob2o32bo15b2o54bo3bo2bo13bo\$36b3o6bo64bobobo2bo15bo17b2o\$36bo7bobo63b2o2bo2b2o13b2o18bo\$45bo69bo2b3o28b3o\$116bo3b2o27bo\$117b2o2bo\$33bo84b3o\$34b2o\$33b2o5\$48b2o\$48b2o\$38bo46bo\$39bo45b3o46b2o\$37b3o48bo32bo12b2o\$87b2o31bobo7b2o\$74b2o43bo3bo6b2o\$55bo18bobo6b2o5b2o27bo3b2o\$55bo19bo7b2o4bobo19b3o5b3o2bo\$49bo5bo33b2o28bo\$48b2o24b2o43b2o\$41bo6bo24bo2b2o40b2o3bo\$40bobo29bo5bo38b2ob3o\$39bo2bo8bo19bo2b2o2bo40b3o\$40b2o3b2o4b2o17b2ob2ob3o25b2o7b2o5b2o\$44bo3bobob6o12bo2bo30b2o8b2o3b3o\$48b4obobo2bo11bob2o47bo4b2o\$45b7o3bo3bo11b2o20bo24bo2bo4bo\$51bo6bo33bobo23bo2bo5b3o\$52bo3b2o35bo25bo9bo\$42b2o11b2o67b2o\$42b2o72b2o6b2o\$46b2o67bo2bo\$45bobo68bobo\$45bo44b2o15b2o8bo\$44b2o44bobo13bobo\$57b2o33bo15bo\$57b2o33b2o\$74bob2o20bo\$74b2obo20b2o\$59b2o36bobo\$59b2o22b2o\$83b2o13\$72b2o\$73bo\$73bobo\$74b2o7b3o\$85bo\$84b3o7\$85b2o3b2o\$85bobobobo\$87bobo\$79b2o4bobobobo\$79bo5b2o3b2o\$77bobo\$77b2o!`

dvgrn
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

I threw together one more sample pattern using the L200... well, technically when it starts with a Herschel transceiver it's an L432+4N conduit.

With a F117+R64 added, the repeat time rises to 156 ticks -- still not too shabby. You end up with decent adjustable p1282+8N loops, which can build any gun you want down to p156 by adding more signals in the loop, with the right adjustment:

Code: Select all
`#C p1282+8N loop, with attached Snark-assisted Herschel output#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART THEME 3 ZOOM 3.1 ANGLE 270 STOP 2564 ]]x = 144, y = 200, rule = B3/S235b2o\$5bobo\$7bo5b2o3b2o\$7b2o4bobobobo\$15bobo\$13bobobobo\$13b2o3b2o2\$74bo20bo\$72b3o11bo7bobo\$71bo14b3o6bo\$71b2o16bo15b2o\$88b2o14bobo\$48bo55b2o\$34bo13b3o57b2o\$2b2o28b3o16bo56bobo\$bobo27bo18b2o58bo\$bo29b2o77b2o\$2o79b2o22b2o\$81b2o22b2o5\$41b2o\$41b2o41b2o\$64b2o19bo20bo\$64bobo17bo20bobo\$66bo17b2o20b2o\$4b2o48b2o10b2o\$4b2o48bo\$10b2o32b2o9b3o\$10b2o33bo11bo\$42b3o\$42bo\$8b2o\$8b2o5b2o\$15b2o3\$50b2o\$50b2o\$55bo26b2o\$53b3o26b2o\$52bo33b2o\$40bo11b2o32b2o\$30b2o7bobo58b2o\$30b2o7bobo58b2o\$40bo4\$103bo\$42b2o58bobo7b2o\$42b2o58bobo7b2o\$56b2o32b2o11bo\$56b2o33bo\$60b2o26b3o\$60b2o26bo\$92b2o\$92b2o3\$127b2o\$127b2o5b2o\$134b2o\$101bo\$99b3o\$86bo11bo33b2o\$86b3o9b2o20b2o\$89bo30b2o8bo2bo4b2o\$76b2o10b2o35b2o3bo7b2o\$36b2o20b2o17bo47bob4ob2o\$36bobo20bo17bobo46b2o4b2o\$37bo20bo19b2o47bo4b2o\$58b2o41b2o25bo2bo\$101b2o26b3o3\$114bo\$114bobo\$37b2o22b2o15bo35b2o\$37b2o22b2o15bobo61b2o\$32b2o44b3o61bo\$33bo46bo11b2o46bobo\$33bobo56bo47b2o\$34b2o57b3o\$38b2o55bo\$37bobo14b2o\$37b2o15bo\$48bo6b3o\$47bobo7bo\$48bo2\$124b2o3b2o\$124bobobobo\$126bobo\$124bobobobo4b2o\$124b2o3b2o5bo\$136bobo\$137b2o14\$46bo\$44b2o\$45b2o6\$23bo\$23b3o\$26bo\$25b2o3\$14b2ob2o\$14b2obo\$17bo\$17b3o4b2o\$15b2o3bo3b2o\$14bo2b4o\$14b2obo15b2o\$15bo2b3o12bobo\$15bo5bo13bo\$16b5o14b2o\$18bo9\$55b2o\$55b2o\$60bo\$58b3o\$57bo\$57b2o\$35b2o\$35b2o6\$47b2o\$47b2o\$61b2o\$61b2o\$65b2o\$65b2o14\$41b2o20b2o\$41bobo20bo\$42bo20bo\$63b2o2\$94bo\$93bobo\$93bobo\$94bo\$42b2o22b2o\$42b2o22b2o\$37b2o\$38bo\$38bobo\$39b2o\$43b2o\$42bobo14b2o\$42b2o15bo\$53bo6b3o\$52bobo7bo\$53bo!`

There's nothing new about the ability to build Herschel transceiver loops down to p156 or even p117 -- just that some interesting new geometries are available now.

When a new conduit shows up, I always hope that it will allow a smaller or faster Snark-assisted G-to-H, but there's no hope of that here since there aren't any extra glider outputs. Still lots of other things to try, though. I definitely haven't even looked at the rest of Calcyman's component collection (which is starting to need some serious updating) to see what else these converters might be attached to -- I know there are at least a few more workable options out there, but I think it's somebody else's turn...!

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5827
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Kazyan wrote:Why have I not seen these converters before?

It might be partly because there is generally less focus on B->X converters (that block is hard to get rid of). Congratulations on the great discovery!
-Matthias Merzenich
Sokwe
Moderator

Posts: 1480
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Yay, I did a thing! And it wasn't a search--it was just manual catalyst-placing.

The ship+eater and double-eater catalyst are broadly applicable, but obscure and apparently less-explored. I just started using them and soon, discovery.
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:I know there are at least a few more workable options out there, but I think it's somebody else's turn...!

Ok so here is an Fx245:

`x = 63, y = 57, rule = LifeHistory29.A\$28.A.A7.A\$28.BA2B4.3A\$18.2A9.2B4.A\$17.BA.AB2.6B5.2A\$17.2B2A10B3.3B3.7B.B\$15.2AB.11B2.3B5.13B.B\$14.A.AB4.38B\$14.A6.40BD\$13.2A4.B.38B3DB\$18.2A22B2A15BDBD\$18.2A.21B2A15BD\$19.30B3.2B2.2B\$21.6B.2B.B3.B2.10B\$21.6B12.6B\$20.7B13.3B\$21.8B11.B\$21.8B10.2A\$18.AB.9B9.A\$17.A.A10B10.A\$17.2A.7B.3B8.2A\$22.10B\$22.10B\$21.11B\$22.10B\$21.B.8B\$20.9B\$18.11B\$18.10B\$17.12B\$16.14B\$16.17B\$17.15B2A\$17.15B2A\$16.17B\$13.16B\$12.16B\$12.16B\$11.16B\$10.20B\$10.20B\$11.20B\$10.22B\$8.24B\$6.25B\$6.2BA13B.10B\$5.3BABA4B.7B2.2B4.2A\$6.2B3A4B2.3B.B4.B4.A\$5.5BA4B4.2B2A3.2A4.3A\$4.10B4.BA2.A4.A6.A\$3.4B12.3A5.A.A\$2.4B22.2A\$.4B14.3A\$4B15.A2.A\$3B18.2A\$2B\$B!`

chris_c

Posts: 905
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For the sake of completeness, it's also possible to string together an L560+4N, or L588+4N for the transceiver terminated by R64:

Code: Select all
`#C L560+4N (left) and R328 (right)#C Repeat time 271 (or a few overclocked smaller periods)#C thanks to the slow B-to-H at the end#C [[ VIEWONLY THUMBNAIL ZOOM 2.8 ]]x = 214, y = 85, rule = LifeHistory99.A\$99.3A68.2A\$82.2A18.A68.A14.2A\$83.A17.2A4.B63.A.AB10.B2AB8.2A\$82.A18.8B63.2AB.2B7.4B7.B2A2B\$82.2A19.8B5.2A56.5B6.4B8.4B\$83.B18.9B6.A50.2A4.7B4.5B5.6B5.2A\$83.3B15.12B.3A51.A5.7B3.7B.8B.2B2.B2AB\$82.6B12.14BA54.3A2.7B.22B2.2B\$78.B2.10B8.15B57.A35B\$75.17B3.2B.15B60.36B\$75.10B2A15BC11B60.32B2A2B\$75.10B2A15BCBC10B59.32B2A3B\$75.27B3C4B.B2AB2A49.2A3.2A.B.35B\$75.29BC4B2.A3.A49.A.A.A.A38B\$75.33B4.3A52.A.A.B.30B.7B\$75.3B5.13B.4B65.2A.2A23B3.B2.4B.6B\$77.3B3.7B.4B.4B12.3A55.B.21B3.3B2.9B\$78.2A10.4B.4B12.A3.A56.20B3.B2AB3.8B\$78.A10.4B.4B13.2A.2A57.13B.4B5.2A5.8B\$79.3A6.4B.4B77.11B.4B14.7B\$81.A5.4B.4B75.18B16.6B\$86.4B.4B75.18B17.2B3D2B\$77.2A6.4B.4B76.17B18.2BD4B\$76.B2AB4.4B.4B77.16B19.B3D4B\$41.A35.3B3.4B.4B78.8B.6B20.9B\$39.3A34.B.B3.4B.4B79.7B3.4B21.9B\$38.A36.10B.4B80.7B2.4B22.9B\$38.2A33.11B.4B81.6B2.4B24.8B\$36.4B11.2A19.11B.4B81.7B.4B\$35.2AB4.2A6.A.A17.12B.4B81.12B\$35.A.AB2.B2AB5.BA17.12B.4B81.12B\$36.2AB3.B.B2.B3.2B15.9B2A6B81.12B33.2A\$36.3B.13B2.B10.10BA2BA4B.B79.7BD4B33.A2.A\$37.20B8.12B2A9B78.5B3D2B35.2A\$37.21B6.6B2A17B77.B.2B2D2BD4.2A\$36.22B4.8B2A16B75.2A4.6B4.A\$36.22B2.29B75.A4.6B.BA.A\$36.53B72.3A4.7B.B2A\$36.9B3.4B.35B72.A8.8B\$33.AB.10B2.40B73.5A3.7B\$32.A.A11B4.31B2.B.B54.2A24.A2.7B\$33.A2B.B.6B7.28B2.3B56.A13.2A6.3A2.7B4.B\$34.B4.7B7.27B2.B2AB55.A.AB9.B2A2B4.A5.6B.B.2BA\$38.7B10.24B4.2A57.2AB.3B6.4B.3B5.11BA.A\$38.7B13.17B.B.B2A63.7B2.11B4.5BD4B.BA\$37.8B15.9B.6B2.BA.A62.22B.B.3B3D3B\$35.2AB.7B16.6B5.2B6.A63.27BD5B\$34.A.AB.6B5.2A10.8B11.2A61.25B2D7B\$34.A4.6B3.B.A12.5B2A72.28B2D6B\$33.2A4.D2B2D2B.BA.A14.3B2A70.29B2D6B\$.2A35.2B3D2B.2B2A16.2B72.2BC26BD7B\$A2.A33.4BD2B.4B16.4B70.3BCBC4B.24B.3B\$.2A33.12B17.B2AB71.2B3C4B2.16B2.B.B3.B2A\$35.12B19.2A71.5BC4B2.7B.4B6.B2AB2.BA.A\$34.12B92.10B4.6B2.2B8.2A4.B2A\$33.4B.7B92.4B11.6B16.4B\$8B24.4B2.6B93.3B13.3B18.2A\$9B22.4B2.7B91.4B12.7B17.A\$9B21.4B3.7B91.2A14.2A.B.2A14.3A\$9B20.6B.8B92.A15.A3.A15.A\$.4B3DB19.16B89.3A13.3A5.3A\$2.4BD2B18.17B89.A15.A9.A\$2.2B3D2B17.18B\$3.6B16.18B\$3.7B14.4B.11B\$3.8B5.2A5.4B.13B\$4.8B3.B2AB3.20B\$4.9B2.3B3.21B.B\$3.6B.4B2.B3.23B2A.2A\$3.7B.30B.B.A.A\$4.38BA.A.A.A\$4.35B.B.2A3.2A\$3.3B2A32B\$4.2B2A32B\$5.36B\$7.35BA\$6.2B2.22B.7B2.3A\$5.B2AB2.2B.8B.7B3.7B5.A\$6.2A5.6B5.5B4.7B4.2A\$13.4B8.4B6.5B\$13.2B2AB7.4B7.2B.B2A\$15.2A8.B2AB10.BA.A\$26.2A14.A\$42.2A!`

Strangest-looking left turn I ever saw, and again they're both really slow to recover. These are definitely not on the most usable end of the conduit spectrum. Are there other viable combinations that I'm not seeing?

Also, I was wrong in a previous post about the R-to-pi converter having the pi too close to be useful. A variant of that R-to-pi is already in Calcyman's collection: it's a B-to-pi, using a block in that same position relative to the pi. The table catalyst now seems vaguely familiar, too, so it's possible someone (Guam?) may have posted it before.

Anyway, as an apology, I've included the table+block R-to-pi in a probably-never-before-seen composite Fx conduit (and G1 tandem-glider emitter). It's probably a good idea to forget about this one quickly -- best not to even collect the abysmal statistics on it:

Code: Select all
`#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART STOP 999 ]]x = 127, y = 107, rule = LifeHistory43.2A3.2A\$43.2A2.A.3A\$47.A4.A\$43.4A.2A2.A\$43.A2.A.A.A.2A\$46.A.A.A.A\$47.2A.A.A\$51.A2\$37.2A\$38.A7.2A\$38.A.A5.2A17.A\$39.2A22.3A\$62.A\$62.2A3\$70.2A.2A\$71.A.2A\$49.2A20.A\$49.A13.2A4.3A\$30.A19.3A10.2A3.A3.2A\$28.5A14.3A2.A15.4A2.A\$27.A5.A13.A2.A.A.2A15.A.2A\$27.A2.3A12.A.A2.A2.A.A12.3A2.A\$26.2A.A15.2A4.A.A13.A5.A\$26.A2.4A19.2A14.5A13.2A3.2A\$27.2A3.A3.2A32.A13.3A.A2.2A\$29.3A4.2A45.A4.A\$29.A53.A2.2A.4A\$26.2A.A52.2A.A.A.A2.A\$26.2A.2A52.A.A.A.A\$83.A.A.2A\$84.A\$37.2A\$38.A58.2A\$35.3A50.2A7.A\$35.A52.2A5.A.A\$95.2A7\$85.2A\$86.A\$83.3A\$83.A2\$19.A\$19.3A6.2A\$22.A5.2A\$21.2A2\$30.D7.D\$22.2A7.D6.D.D50.A\$22.2A7.2D5.3D.2A45.3A\$30.2D8.D.2A22.D21.A\$30.D35.2D8.D11.2A\$67.2D5.3D\$22.2A43.D6.D\$22.2A42.D7.D3\$116.D\$22.2A90.3D\$22.A74.2A15.D\$19.2A.A42.2A30.2A15.D\$19.2A.2A5.D35.2A7.2A49.A\$28.3D42.A.A48.A.A\$28.D44.A50.A.A\$51.2A19.2A10.2A39.A\$52.A32.A\$49.3A30.3A9.2A\$49.A32.A11.A\$61.2A32.A\$61.A32.2A\$62.3A\$36.2A26.A\$36.2A12\$12.C\$12.C.C20.2A\$12.3C20.A\$14.C10.2A3.2A4.3A\$23.A2.A4.A6.A\$23.3A5.A.A\$32.2A\$23.3A\$3.A.2A16.A2.A\$.3A.2A18.2A\$A\$.3A.2A\$3.A.A\$3.A.A\$4.A!`

I think that the above mess, possibly along with some equally hideous variants involving the Lx200 dependent conduit, is the only known way to use that table+block R-to-pi. (But I've been wrong before.) It's necessary to suppress the output Herschel's glider. Otherwise the glider will kill off the table, making the conduit useless.

There are other dependent conduits as well, but besides the Lx198 which doesn't quite fit, I think all the rest are periodic, and I'm refusing to look at those -- it might encourage them.

I remember Guam did some really clever things with that Fx119-like pi-to-Herschel component, though, that I haven't really gotten used to yet -- so I might easily be missing something good.

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5827
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:For each orientation we'll need a recipe that builds the object at the back edge of its reaction envelope, and one on the left edge, and one on the right edge. Once we've collected all of those recipes for some non-Spartan object, it becomes just as good as any Spartan object (except for the extra cost in gliders.)

But even with Guam's work on tub-with-tail eaters and spark coils (links above) we're not anywhere near there yet.

Here is a dead spark coil near to the back of the reaction envelope in ten gliders from a traffic light. I reckon it should be usuable for all 4 orientations of the Herschel transmitter without massive difficulty.

`x = 918, y = 891, rule = B3/S23913bo\$913bo\$913bo2\$909b3o3b3o2\$913bo\$913bo\$913bo29\$885bo\$885b2o\$884bobo79\$790b3o\$792bo\$791bo98\$692b3o\$694bo\$693bo85\$613bo\$613b2o\$612bobo99\$518b3o\$520bo\$519bo98\$421b3o\$423bo\$422bo80\$301b2o\$300bobo\$302bo98\$196b2o\$195bobo\$197bo98\$102b2o\$101bobo\$103bo98\$b2o\$obo\$2bo!`
chris_c

Posts: 905
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

chris_c wrote:Here is a dead spark coil near to the back of the reaction envelope in ten gliders from a traffic light. I reckon it should be usuable for all 4 orientations of the Herschel transmitter without massive difficulty.

Yes, indeed -- a little messy, maybe but quite workable.

I was worried about the orientation where the associated eater in the tandem-glider converter is behind the spark coil -- see the last pattern in this posting for all four construction cases (how convenient!). Luckily there's just exactly enough room for the eater to be constructed first. Even the extra beehive behind the spark coil can be cleaned up, though it's out of the way so it could just be left there for decoration.

That takes care of single-arm constructions of H->2G. I'm not sure about Guam's two-arm construction recipes, but there's generally a lot more flexibility there -- and of course we can always just use one-arm recipes instead! I wonder how often it will turn out to be more efficient for the two arms to wander off and do single-arm slow-salvo constructions in two places at once?

Once the current excitement dies down, I'm thinking it's time to finish stringing together a workable design for a two-arm quadratic-growth Geminoid replicator, quite possibly including things like these spark coils.

(On the other hand, I'd like to finish the Demonoid spaceship before getting too deep into the replicator project. Too many interesting things to do around here...!)

dvgrn
Moderator

Posts: 5827
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Any chance of restoring the yellow block here (preferably without wiring up a glider to it and keeping the advantages of the FNG suppression?)
`x = 27, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory15.2C\$3.2A11.C\$4.A11.C.C\$3.A13.2C\$3.2A\$4.B17.2E\$4.3B15.2E\$3.6B\$2.10B\$2.11B3.2B2.2B\$2BD3B2A15BC\$2B2D2B2A15BCBC\$.2B2D18B3CB\$2.BD21BC\$2.D21B\$4.13B.B\$4.7B.B!`
Sphenocorona

Posts: 480
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Sphenocorona wrote:Any chance of restoring the yellow block here (preferably without wiring up a glider to it and keeping the advantages of the FNG suppression?)
`x = 27, y = 17, rule = LifeHistory15.2C\$3.2A11.C\$4.A11.C.C\$3.A13.2C\$3.2A\$4.B17.2E\$4.3B15.2E\$3.6B\$2.10B\$2.11B3.2B2.2B\$2BD3B2A15BC\$2B2D2B2A15BCBC\$.2B2D18B3CB\$2.BD21BC\$2.D21B\$4.13B.B\$4.7B.B!`

Yes, actually! He're something that works but kills the Herschel, and something that almost works but leaves activity.

`x = 26, y = 15, rule = LifeHistory2A19.2A\$A8.A12.A\$.3A3.3A12.A.2A\$3.A2.A16.A.A\$6.2A2\$2C18.2C\$2C18.2C4\$.C19.C\$.C.C17.C.C\$.3C17.3C\$3.C19.C!`

Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Here's another transparent reaction with a different mechanism (though this is probably not as useful):
`x = 10, y = 16, rule = LifeHistory2.2C\$.C.C\$.2C3\$2C\$2C4\$.C\$.C.C\$.3C\$3.C!`

The results from manual search with various types of catalysts seems somewhat promising, though I can't say if Bellman will be able to find something that is remotely like what I'm investigating:
`x = 13, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory3.A2.A2.2A\$3.4A2.2A2\$.10A\$A.A8.A\$A3.2A.2A2.A\$.3A.A.C.A.2A\$3.A.C3.A\$4.2C2.CA3\$.2C\$.2C4\$2.C\$2.C.C\$2.3C\$4.C!`

EDIT: This catalyst doesn't really accomplish anything before its destruction, but it continues reacting for a surprising amount of time before finally exploding for a catalyst found by hand:
Code: Select all
`#C [[ THUMBNAIL GPS 10 STOP 42 ]]x = 14, y = 20, rule = LifeHistory.2E4.E\$E2.E3.3E\$3E.E5.E\$4.7E\$2.2E7.2E\$.E3.2E.2E3.E\$.E.2E.E.E.3C\$2.E.C.E.C.C\$5.2C.C.C\$9.C2\$2.2C\$2.2C4\$3.C\$3.C.C\$3.3C\$5.C!`
Sphenocorona

Posts: 480
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

dvgrn wrote:The L200 itself recovers in as little as 59 ticks if you suppress the output Herschel's glider.

Conveniently, it allows for a much smaller p59 emu:
`x = 190, y = 90, rule = B3/S2336bo35b2o12bo35b2o12bo\$23bo9bo2b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o24bo\$23b3o5b3o5bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo16bo7bobo\$10bo15bo3bo7bo3bobo29b2o12bo3bobo29b2o12bo3bobo16b3o6bo\$8b3o14b2o3b2o5bo3bobo43bo3bobo43bo3bobo20bo15b2o\$7bo29b2o3bo44b2o3bo44b2o3bo20b2o14bobo\$7b2o57bo49bo62b2o\$64b3o47b3o66b2o\$4b2o5b2o24bo2bo22bo33b2o14bo45bo15bo7bobo\$4bobo4b2o23bo3bo9b2o11b2o31bobo14b2o42b2ob2o12b3o8bo\$5b2o19b3o7bo4bo8b2o25b3o15b2obo58bo15b2o2bo7b2o\$22bo13bo4bo35bo2bo15b2o41b2o16bo3bo11bo3bob3o\$21b3o13bo3bo17b3o15bob2o16bo40b3o17b3o12bobo4b2o\$20b2ob2o13bobo17b2obo14bo57b2o4bo38bo\$19b3o2b2o31b2obo13bo2bo25b2o29bo2b2o35b2ob2o\$20b2o2b2o32bobo13bobobo3bo19bo32b2o39bo\$23b3o33b2o4bo9b2obo4bo31bo20bo30bo\$6b3o14b2o38bobo11bo4bo30bobo50bobo\$2bo5bo55b2o47b3o9b2o32b2o5bobo\$bobo4b2obo27b2o47b2o23bo11b2o11b2o20bo4b2ob2o\$2bo6b3o7bo6b2o11bobo46bo12b3o34bo20bo\$10bo6b3o6b2o13bo47b3o47b3o17b2o\$16bo24b2o48bo11bo37bo\$17b3o42b2o3bo35b2o7b2o3bo69b2o\$19bo42bo3bobo34b2o7bo3bobo56bo11bo\$4b2o43b2o12bo3bobo29b2o12bo3bobo54b2o9bobo\$3bobo42bobo13bo4bo28bobo13bo4bo48b2o3b4o8b2o\$3bo44bo12b3o5b2o27bo12b3o5b2o47b2o2b2o3b3o\$2b2o43b2o12bo35b2o12bo61bo5bo\$8b2o8b2obo157bo\$7bo2bo7bob2o151bo4bo6b2o\$7bo2bo161b2o2bo8bobo\$7bo164b2obo11bo\$7b2o3bo160b2o12b2o\$8bo2b2obo\$9b3o2bo\$188b2o\$184b2o2bo\$184bobobo\$169b2o16bo\$170bo\$8b3o156b3o15bo\$8bo2b2o154bo16bobo\$9b3o173bo\$bo8bo175b3o\$b3o175bo8bo\$4bo173b3o\$3bobo16bo154b2o2bo\$4bo15b3o156b3o\$19bo\$2bo16b2o\$bobobo\$bo2b2o\$2o\$175bo2b3o\$175bob2o2bo\$b2o12b2o160bo3b2o\$2bo11bob2o164bo\$2bobo8bo2b2o161bo2bo\$3b2o6bo4bo151b2obo7bo2bo\$10bo157bob2o8b2o\$10bo5bo61bo12b2o35bo12b2o43b2o\$10b3o3b2o2b2o47b2o5b3o12bo27b2o5b3o12bo44bo\$3b2o8b4o3b2o48bo4bo13bobo28bo4bo13bobo42bobo\$2bobo9b2o54bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo12b2o43b2o\$2bo11bo56bobo3bo7b2o34bobo3bo42bo\$b2o69bo3b2o7b2o35bo3b2o42b3o\$48bo37bo11bo48b2o24bo\$29b2o17b3o47b3o47bo13b2o6b3o6bo\$30bo20bo34b3o12bo46bobo11b2o6bo7b3o6bo\$20b2ob2o4bo20b2o11b2o11bo23b2o47b2o27bob2o4bobo\$21bobo5b2o32b2o9b3o47b2o55bo5bo\$21bobo50bobo30bo4bo11bobo38b2o14b3o\$22bo30bo20bo31bo4bob2o9bo4b2o33b3o\$13bo39b2o32bo19bo3bobobo13bobo32b2o2b2o\$11b2ob2o35b2o2bo29b2o25bo2bo13bob2o31b2o2b3o\$10bo38bo4b2o57bo14bob2o17bobo13b2ob2o\$8b2o4bobo12b3o17b3o40bo16b2obo15b3o17bo3bo13b3o\$8b3obo3bo11bo3bo16b2o41b2o15bo2bo35bo4bo13bo\$3b2o7bo2b2o15bo58bob2o15b3o25b2o8bo4bo7b3o19b2o\$4bo8b3o12b2ob2o42b2o14bobo31b2o11b2o9bo3bo23b2o4bobo\$4bobo7bo15bo45bo14b2o33bo22bo2bo24b2o5b2o\$5b2o66b3o47b3o\$9b2o62bo49bo57b2o\$8bobo14b2o20bo3b2o44bo3b2o44bo3b2o29bo\$8b2o15bo20bobo3bo43bobo3bo43bobo3bo5b2o3b2o14b3o\$19bo6b3o16bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo12b2o29bobo3bo7bo3bo15bo\$18bobo7bo16bo4bo13bobo28bo4bo13bobo28bo4bo5b3o5b3o\$19bo24b2o5b3o12bo27b2o5b3o12bo27b2o5b3o2bo9bo\$53bo12b2o35bo12b2o35bo!`

dvgrn wrote:I was wrong in a previous post about the R-to-pi converter having the pi too close to be useful.... I think that the above mess, possibly along with some equally hideous variants involving the Lx200 dependent conduit, is the only known way to use that table+block R-to-pi.

There is also this B->G which gives a "relatively nice" R->Pi->B->G:
`x = 40, y = 45, rule = LifeHistory3.2A16.2A\$3.2A16.A\$19.A.A\$3.4A3.2A3.2A2.2A\$3.A2.A3.2A3.2A4\$13.3D4.2A\$.2C12.D4.2A\$2.2C9.3D\$2.C10.2D2.D\$14.3D\$15.D3\$9.2A\$9.2A6\$2A\$.A\$.A.A\$2.2A\$38.2D\$37.D.D\$39.D4\$3.2A\$2.A.A\$2.A\$.2A2\$12.2A\$12.A.A\$13.A\$28.2A\$28.A\$29.3A\$31.A!`

That B+block reaction has the potential to be quite useful, as it can remove the B's natural block in some very tight spaces, but I just haven't been able to get anything better than a glider out of it (at least in any sort of nice way).

dvgrn wrote:The table catalyst now seems vaguely familiar, too, so it's possible someone (Guam?) may have posted it before.

I specifically remember Guam posting the table variant of the R->B.
-Matthias Merzenich
Sokwe
Moderator

Posts: 1480
Joined: July 9th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

I've never seen an Eater 2 catalyze something like it does in this new, 6th R->B variant:
Code: Select all
`#C [[ AUTOSTART THUMBNAIL GPS 7 LOOP 28 ]]x = 16, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory4.A\$3.A.A\$3.A.A6.2A\$.3A.2A6.A\$A6.B2.3A\$.3AB2A3BA\$3.A.2A2B\$4.B.2B2.B\$2.B2.8B\$.12BD\$13B2D\$B2C11B2D\$2B2C10BD\$2BC10BD\$5B.4B\$10B\$8B\$6B\$.4B!`

Maybe there's some other situation where this sort of thing is handy?
Sphenocorona

Posts: 480
Joined: April 9th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

I'm starting to really like the ship-and-eater catalyst.

Code: Select all
`#C Pi-to-Pi#C [[ THUMBNAIL AUTOSTART ZOOM 12 HEIGHT 480 LOOP 40 ]]x = 37, y = 10, rule = B3/S235b2o23b2o\$6bo23bo\$6bobo19bobo\$2o5b2o19b2o5b2o\$bo33bo\$bobo13b3o13bobo\$2b2o12bo3bo12b2o\$6b2o8b2ob2o8b2o\$5bobo21bobo\$5b2o23b2o!`

Cant' be strung together, unfortunately, but I'll ask Bellman if it has any better ideas.
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Kazyan wrote:I'm starting to really like the ship-and-eater catalyst.
#C Pi-to-Pi
...Can't be strung together, unfortunately, but I'll ask Bellman if it has any better ideas.

Yup -- as usual, you can get a pi in, but it may still be tricky to get a signal out:

`x = 37, y = 46, rule = LifeHistory17.3D\$17.D.D\$17.D.D\$5.2A23.2A\$6.A23.A\$6.A.A19.A.A\$2A5.2A19.2A5.2A\$.A33.A\$.A.A29.A.A\$2.2A13.3D13.2A\$6.2A9.D.D9.2A\$5.A.A9.D.D9.A.A\$5.2A23.2A3\$32.A\$30.3A\$29.A\$29.2A3\$7.2A19.2A\$7.2A19.2A10\$24.3C\$15.2A8.C\$16.A6.3C\$13.3A\$13.A6\$33.2A\$33.A.A\$35.A\$35.2A!`

See also the bottom of this old weblog posting for a periodic (but chainable) version of the same 6-cell pi-to-pi reaction.

This may be a case for ptbsearch, actually: I'm not sure if anyone has done a thorough search for likely transparent block/beehive/whatever locations to draw a pi explosion away from a conduit like this, before the backwash destroys the nearest catalysts. Ptbsearch hasn't been applied to this since the late 1990's, anyway, I think. And it will also be interesting to see what Bellman comes up with, of course!

dvgrn
Moderator

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Yeah, I noticed that none of calcyman's elementary conduits allowed the Pi to escape, so we just need to get the catalysts further downstream so that something will fit. Chainability isn't even necessary if getting a 6-cell spacer like this would be useful somehow.
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Bellman blew up trying to do the previous (as in, it started enumerating all still lifes that could be welded to an eater2).

Anyway, here's a transparent block reaction found through sheer dumb luck. A quick 2-catalyst run from generations 90-130 using the catalyst searcher doesn't yield anything, so I guess it's up to manual searches or Bellman catalysts to get that working (and hopefully, delete that annoying blinker with a glider or something).

`x = 16, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory10.2A\$10.A\$8.A.A\$4.2A2.2A\$4.2A6\$14.2A\$14.A\$12.A.A\$12.2A4\$2C\$2C3\$5.A\$4.3A\$3.2A.A!`
Tanner Jacobi

Kazyan

Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

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