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is this c/10 spaceship known?

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby mniemiec » March 6th, 2016, 5:35 am

dvgrn wrote:Does anybody know offhand how to drop those two blocks simultaneously? Seems like that should be a three- or four-glider task. If someone has the recipe already then I don't need to run gencols.

There are several 3-glider collisions that can create that combination of blocks. Unfortunately, none of the ones I know are usable just 2 spaces away from another object. I cobbled together that 6-glider method years ago for the interior of the oscillator where 4 pentadecathlons hassle 4 blocks in a square, all 2 spaces apart.
chris_c wrote:Heh, I've just been doing that. I ended up with a 4 glider solution.

Thanks! I'll back-port this to the above-named oscillator as well.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 8:40 am

Been trying to find an effective eater for this ship. To no avail, because most of the reactions usually end up with the block crystalization phenomenon which clogs up the gun. I have found a way to destroy crystallized blocks using a LWSS, but let's face it: who wants an eater that requires a freaking gun in its recipe?

How exactly do I go about finding new spaceships (specifically, ones of new speeds) of my own? I know I've asked this three times, and that it's a really dumb question, but I need to give this a shot to find small and obvious ships overlooked by everyone else.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby velcrorex » March 6th, 2016, 9:59 am

muzik wrote:More specifically, how do I run wls and gfind?


Wls is an exe found here: http://entropymine.com/wls/

gfind you'll have to compile yourself and then run from the command line: http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ca/gfind.c
-Josh Ball.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby dvgrn » March 6th, 2016, 10:18 am

muzik wrote:How exactly do I go about finding new spaceships (specifically, ones of new speeds) of my own? I know I've asked this three times...

Yeah, and I'm sorry I ignored the last two questions. Was hoping that someone else would answer, since I've never actually tried to compile and run gfind myself.

It's probably better to try for new spaceship speeds with gfind rather than any of the lifesrc flavors. On the other hand, gfind is a breadth-first search and is reported to take an hour to find the copperhead, while zdr says that a basic depth-first search algorithm found it in 19 seconds.

@zdr, a little more detail would be really useful here, to see if there's an obvious-with-hindsight flaw in the way everyone has been doing this kind of speculative search. I take it your search was constrained to a very narrow width and mirror-symmetry, to make a period-10 search space feasible? What other constraints are built in to your "basic dfs"?

Anyway, @muzik, in the absence of specifics from zdr, the place to start is probably... EDIT: gfind 4.9 -- link is in in my next message below.

Compiling C code tends to be impressively frustrating if you're not familiar with it. It's not actually all that difficult, but you might need to invest some hours in learning basic terminology. Otherwise you're likely to end up with a bad case of Blank Mind Syndrome -- but not the good kind of blank mind where you've reached enlightenment and are at peace with the universe. It's more like if you suddenly find yourself on stage, with a large audience waiting for you to give a 14-minute TED talk on Sumerian agricultural practices.

Maybe you'll have to download a C compiler, maybe you have one on your computer already -- it depends on your platform and operating system, so I won't try to go into the details here.

After you do your best on your own, with lots of help from Google, then your best bet might be to start a new thread called something like "Compiling gfind".

Write up the steps you took to try to get gfind to compile and run, in incredibly specific detail. You know, your OS version, which C compiler you're running, where you downloaded it from, what folder you put the gfind.v46.c file in -- everything that anyone would need to do everything that you did, exactly the same. Then quote the exact error message that is stopping you.

At that point probably someone with the same OS won't be able to resist helping you get to past the problem.

When you're done, the thread you will have made could be a really useful resource for other people trying to do the same thing.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby EricG » March 6th, 2016, 10:26 am

This thread _might_ be helpful:

How to use Gfind?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=826
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 10:27 am

Looks like I don't know anything about anything at this point. How, exactly, do I use wls?

Some stuff goes from left to right when I start the search, and then it recedes back eventually and gives no results. I'm hopeless.


SO after pressing the submit button dvgrn posted, might as well respond here as well: Yes, I have zero knowledge of C. I've only learned the basics of HTML and Python so far, which probably will not help at all. I'll try and see if I can "teach myself" C, but life kind of doesn't work like that.

My computer is windows 10 (bought as windows 8 ), bought in December 2013, and has ~1TB of memory, so will it have a compiler?

And of course, if I ever get round to bothering with it, I will definitely try and post my experiences with gfind
Last edited by muzik on June 14th, 2017, 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 10:36 am

EricG wrote:This thread _might_ be helpful:

How to use Gfind?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=826

Unfortunately not, not a Mac user :(
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby moebius » March 6th, 2016, 10:40 am

Congratulations zdr!

It is quite rare that someone finds a spaceship of a new speed. I think it is even rarer that someone writes their own spaceship search program. I wrote a spaceship search program back in 1995 and emailed Alan Hensel with some of my results. That is how I got involved in the life community.

I still like writing search programs. Like Josh I ran the c/10 search in my latest program "knightt" and rediscovered your ship in 10 hours. It appears to be time for me to put some effort into speeding up "knightt". I decided to refocus my effort on coming up with a new global architecture for my searches that finds the entire search tree for a given spaceship width, speed, and period. By doing this in a very real sense I find all of the spaceships of a given type. So I can report that the "copperhead" is the only width 10 period 10 even symmetric c/10 spaceship.

The syntheses are really cool.

Welcome to the community zdr,

-Tim Coe
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 10:51 am

moebius wrote:I still like writing search programs. Like Josh I ran the c/10 search in my latest program "knightt" and rediscovered your ship in 10 hours.

How long does it take to rediscover the loafer?
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 10:58 am

The ship also eats blinkers:

x = 10, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
b3o2b3o4$b3o2b3o4$6b3o4$6b3o6$4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob
2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby Dean Hickerson » March 6th, 2016, 11:01 am

Fantastic find, zdr!

EricG wrote:The conversion from HWSS to loaf suggests that a sawtooth very similar to Dean Hickerson's original sawtooth could be constructed.

Indeed, a few hours spent modifying my first sawtooth produced this:

#C Sawtooth with expansion factor 6, based on zdr's c/10 copperhead spaceship.
#C The minimum repeating population is 1309 in gens 1728*6^n-1364, n>=1.  The
#C successive maximum populations are (t+75892)/50 in gens t=12960*6^n+248, n>=0.
#C This uses period 240 glider guns.  Guns of any period 48N for N>=2 could be
#C used, giving expansion factor N+1.
#C Dean Hickerson, 3/6/2016
x = 209, y = 230, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23bo2bo$9bobo15bo$7bo3bo2b3o10bo6b2o$7bo19bo6b2o$2o4bo4bo7b2o2bo
2bo$2o5bo7bobo2bo2b2o$7bo3bo5b3o$9bobo9$26bo19b2o$25bo2bo17bo$44bobo$
25bo8b2o8b2o$25bo2bo4bo2bo$25bo2bo5b2o14b2o$27b2o21bo$48bobo$48b2o$32b
3o$34bo$33bo4$35b2o$14b2o9b2o8b2o$14bobo7bobo$5b2o2b2o6bo8bo5bo$5b2obo
2bo2bo2bo13bobo$9b2o6bo13b2obo4b2o$14bobo14b2ob2o3b2o$14b2o15b2obo$31b
obo$32bo3$32b2o$31bobo$16bobo11bo6b2o$11bo4bo2bo10bo2bo2bo2bob2o$12b2o
5b2o9bo6b2o2b2o$7b2o8bo3b2o8bobo$7b2o10b2o11b2o$16bo2bo8bo$16bobo10b2o
$28b2o4$132bo$131b2o$35bobo92b2o11b2o$36b2o82b2o7b3o7bo3b3o$36bo16b2o
65b2o8b2o5b4o4b2obo$53bo77b2o2bo4bo4bo2bo5b2o$51bobo78bo2bo3bo5b2obo5b
2o$51b2o83bob2o3b3o$143b2o$43bo13b2o$44b2o11bo$44bo10bobo71bobo$55b2o
72b2o$41bo2bo85bo$42b2o76bo$119bob2o60b2o$118bo4bo58bo$35b2o71b2o9bob
4o56bo12b2o$36b2o71bo7bo3bo49b2o8bo7bo4b2o$35bo6b2o65bobo4b3o2b3obo45b
2o8bo8b2o5b2o$24b2o16b2o66b2o12bo57bo4b2o2bo5b3o5b2o$23bo3bo89bo3b3o
59b2ob5o6b2o6b2o$12b2o8bo5bo7bo67b2o17bo65bo4b2o$12b2o8bo3bob2o4bobo
68bo7b2o4b3o72b2o$22bo5bo3b2o12b2o57bobo5b2o5bobo$23bo3bo4b2o12b2o58b
2o13bo59bo$24b2o6b2o88b2o56bo$34bobo85b2o56b3o$36bo85bobo2$170b3o$48bo
121b2ob2o$47bobo69b2o38b2o8bo3b2o$30b2o14bo3b2o67b2o21bo17bo15bo$30bob
o13bo3b2o3b2o72b2o2b2o6b4o15bobo4b2o3b3obo$25b2o4b3o12bo3b2o3b2o67bobo
2bob4o5b2obobo3b2o10b2o5b2o2bo2bo$21b4o2bo4b3o12bobo72bo3bo3bob2o5b3ob
o2bo2b2o17b7o$21b3ob2o4b3o7bo6bo66b2o5bo12bo4b2obobo9b2o13bo$30bobo9b
2o71b2o4bo4bo14b4o11bo7b2o4bo2bo$30b2o9b2o79bo19bo13bobo5b2o5bobo$122b
o3bo30b2o13bo$124bobo$173b3o$173bo$174bo$48bobo$49b2o$49bo109b2o9b2o$
67b2o90b2o9b2o9bo2bo8bo$67bo113bo10bobo$65bobo109bo2bo3b2o5bo3b2o3b2o$
65b2o107b4o3b2obobo4bo3b2o3b2o$166b2o5b4o14bo3b2o$71b2o93b2o5bo2bo8b2o
5bobo$71bo101b4o16bo$69bobo102b4o$69b2o106bo6$48b2o$49b2o5b2o$38bo9bo
7b2o$38bobo$26b2o11bobo9b2o$26b2o11bo2bo7b3o$39bobo5bob2o9b2o$38bobo6b
o2bo4bo5bo$38bo8bob2o5bo$50b3o3bo3bo$51b2o5bo5b2o49b2ob2o$63b4o47bo3b
4o$62bob2ob2obo43bo3b4o$67b2o2bo38b2o2b2o$62b2o2b2o2b3o37b2o2b2o$62b4o
bo2b3o41bo3b4o$61bo2bo3bo2bo42bo3b4o$60b3o2bob4o5b3o36b2ob2o$60b3o2b2o
2b2o4bo$61bo2b2o9bo3bo$62bob2ob2obo4bo2bobo$66b4o7bobo2bo94b2o$67b2o9b
o3bo87b3o4b2o$82bo86b5o6b2o10bo$79b3o86bobo3bo5b3o7bobo$61bobo104b2o3b
o6b2o6b2o$59bo3bo94b2o17b2o9b2o12b2o$51bo7bo98b2o17b2o9b2o12b2o$50b4o
4bo4bo8b2o116bobo$49b2obobo4bo12b2o87b2o9b2o6bo11bo$38b2o8b3obo2bo3bo
3bo97b2o9b2o6bobo$38b2o9b2obobo6bobo116b2o$50b4o$51bo16b2o$62bo5b2o$
60bobo$61b2o110bo$159b2o11bo$68bo89bobo11b3o$67bobo88bo$66b2ob2o86b2o$
81b2o87b3o$81bobo79b2o11b3obo$83bo78bobo11b2o2b2o$83b2o77bo12b4ob2ob2o
$161b2o8b2o3b4o3b2o$77b2o91bob3obobo5b2o$77bobo90b3o3bob2o$79bo99bo$
79b2o97b3o$178bo2$183b2o$183b2o$187b2o9b2o$187bobo7bobo$181bo5bo8bo6b
2o2b2o$180bobo13bo2bo2bo2bob2o$42b2o129b2o4bob2o13bo6b2o$42b3o128b2o3b
2ob2o14bobo$33b2o9b2obo11bo119bob2o15b2o$33bo5bo4bo2bo10b2o120bobo$38b
o5b2obo9b2o4b2o2b2o112bo$34bo3bo3b3o11b3o4b2o2b2o$36bo5b2o13b2o4b2o$
58b2o$59bo117bobo$172bo4bo2bo$173b2o5b2o8bo$57bo110b2o8bo3b2o5bobo$55b
4o109b2o10b2o6bob2o$46b2o5b4ob2o117bo2bo6b2ob2o10b2o$44bo2bo3bo3b2ob3o
8b2o106bobo8bob2o10b2o$43bo7bo3b2ob2o9b2o118bobo$35b2o6bo6bo3b5o113b2o
6bo9bo$35b2o6bo7b3o3bo114b2o5bo$44bo2bo131b3o$46b2o17b2o$65b2o$59bo
115bo$60b2o112b3o$59b2o112bo3bo$159b2o11b3o2b2o$158bobo5b2o4b3o2bo$
158bo7b2o4b3o$78b2o77b2o14bobo$65b3o10bobo93b2o$80bo82b2o7b3o$65bo2bo
11b2o80bobo6bo2bo$66b2o94bo7bo3bo$74b2o85b2o8bob2o$74bobo102b2o$60bo
15bo102bobo$60b2o14b2o101bo$59bobo5$186b3o9b2o$52b2o132bo9bo2bo7bo$53b
2o126bo5bo7bo7b2o3bo$42bo9bo126b4o12bo6bo5bo$42bobo128b2o3bobob2o11bo
7b5o$30b2o11bobo9b2o116b2o2bo2bob3o11bo2bo$30b2o11bo2bo7b3o121bobob2o
14b2o$43bobo5bob2o9b2o113b4o$42bobo6bo2bo4bo5bo115bo$42bo8bob2o5bo$54b
3o3bo3bo$55b2o5bo!

P.S. (3/26/2016): Bill Gosper reminded me that the figure 8 oscillator used in the HWSS synthesis can be replaced by a boat, a reaction found by David Buckingham. So the sawtooth can be reduced slightly:
#C Sawtooth with expansion factor 6, based on zdr's c/10 copperhead spaceship.
#C The minimum repeating population is 1302 in gens 1728*6^n-1364, n>=1.  The
#C successive maximum populations are (t+75242)/50 in gens t=2160*6^n+248, n>=0.
#C This uses period 240 glider guns.  Guns of any period 48N for N>=2 could be
#C used, giving expansion factor N+1.
#C Dean Hickerson, 3/6/2016. Reduced with Bill Gosper's help, 3/26/2016.
x = 209, y = 230, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23bo2bo$9bobo15bo$7bo3bo2b3o10bo6b2o$7bo19bo6b2o$2o4bo4bo7b2o2bo
2bo$2o5bo7bobo2bo2b2o$7bo3bo5b3o$9bobo9$26bo19b2o$25bo2bo17bo$44bobo$
25bo8b2o8b2o$25bo2bo4bo2bo$25bo2bo5b2o14b2o$27b2o21bo$48bobo$48b2o$32b
3o$34bo$33bo4$35b2o$14b2o9b2o8b2o$14bobo7bobo$5b2o2b2o6bo8bo5bo$5b2obo
2bo2bo2bo13bobo$9b2o6bo13b2obo4b2o$14bobo14b2ob2o3b2o$14b2o15b2obo$31b
obo$32bo3$32b2o$31bobo$16bobo11bo6b2o$11bo4bo2bo10bo2bo2bo2bob2o$12b2o
5b2o9bo6b2o2b2o$7b2o8bo3b2o8bobo$7b2o10b2o11b2o$16bo2bo8bo$16bobo10b2o
$28b2o4$132bo$131b2o$35bobo92b2o11b2o$36b2o82b2o7b3o7bo3b3o$36bo16b2o
65b2o8b2o5b4o4b2obo$53bo77b2o2bo4bo4bo2bo5b2o$51bobo78bo2bo3bo5b2obo5b
2o$51b2o83bob2o3b3o$143b2o$43bo13b2o$44b2o11bo$44bo10bobo71bobo$55b2o
72b2o$41bo2bo85bo$42b2o76bo$119bob2o60b2o$118bo4bo58bo$35b2o71b2o9bob
4o56bo12b2o$36b2o71bo7bo3bo49b2o8bo7bo4b2o$35bo6b2o65bobo4b3o2b3obo45b
2o8bo8b2o5b2o$24b2o16b2o66b2o12bo57bo4b2o2bo5b3o5b2o$23bo3bo89bo3b3o
59b2ob5o6b2o6b2o$12b2o8bo5bo7bo67b2o17bo65bo4b2o$12b2o8bo3bob2o4bobo
68bo7b2o4b3o72b2o$22bo5bo3b2o12b2o57bobo5b2o5bobo$23bo3bo4b2o12b2o58b
2o13bo59bo$24b2o6b2o88b2o56bo$34bobo85b2o56b3o$36bo85bobo2$170b3o$48bo
121b2ob2o$47bobo69b2o38b2o8bo3b2o$30b2o14bo3b2o67b2o21bo17bo15bo$30bob
o13bo3b2o3b2o72b2o2b2o6b4o15bobo4b2o3b3obo$25b2o4b3o12bo3b2o3b2o67bobo
2bob4o5b2obobo3b2o10b2o5b2o2bo2bo$21b4o2bo4b3o12bobo72bo3bo3bob2o5b3ob
o2bo2b2o17b7o$21b3ob2o4b3o7bo6bo66b2o5bo12bo4b2obobo9b2o13bo$30bobo9b
2o71b2o4bo4bo14b4o11bo7b2o4bo2bo$30b2o9b2o79bo19bo13bobo5b2o5bobo$122b
o3bo30b2o13bo$124bobo$173b3o$173bo$174bo$48bobo$49b2o$49bo109b2o9b2o$
67b2o90b2o9b2o9bo2bo8bo$67bo113bo10bobo$65bobo109bo2bo3b2o5bo3b2o3b2o$
65b2o107b4o3b2obobo4bo3b2o3b2o$166b2o5b4o14bo3b2o$71b2o93b2o5bo2bo8b2o
5bobo$71bo101b4o16bo$69bobo102b4o$69b2o106bo6$48b2o$49b2o5b2o$38bo9bo
7b2o$38bobo$26b2o11bobo9b2o$26b2o11bo2bo7b3o$39bobo5bob2o9b2o$38bobo6b
o2bo4bo5bo$38bo8bob2o5bo$50b3o3bo3bo$51b2o5bo5b2o49b2ob2o$63b4o47bo3b
4o$62bob2ob2obo43bo3b4o$67b2o2bo38b2o2b2o$62b2o2b2o2b3o37b2o2b2o$62b4o
bo2b3o41bo3b4o$61bo2bo3bo2bo3b2o37bo3b4o$60b3o2bob4o3bobo38b2ob2o$60b
3o2b2o2b2o4bo$61bo2b2o$62bob2ob2obo$66b4o107b2o$67b2o101b3o4b2o$169b5o
6b2o10bo$168bobo3bo5b3o7bobo$61bobo104b2o3bo6b2o6b2o$59bo3bo94b2o17b2o
9b2o12b2o$51bo7bo98b2o17b2o9b2o12b2o$50b4o4bo4bo8b2o116bobo$49b2obobo
4bo12b2o87b2o9b2o6bo11bo$38b2o8b3obo2bo3bo3bo97b2o9b2o6bobo$38b2o9b2ob
obo6bobo116b2o$50b4o$51bo16b2o$62bo5b2o$60bobo$61b2o110bo$159b2o11bo$
68bo89bobo11b3o$67bobo88bo$66b2ob2o86b2o$81b2o87b3o$81bobo79b2o11b3obo
$83bo78bobo11b2o2b2o$83b2o77bo12b4ob2ob2o$161b2o8b2o3b4o3b2o$77b2o91bo
b3obobo5b2o$77bobo90b3o3bob2o$79bo99bo$79b2o97b3o$178bo2$183b2o$183b2o
$187b2o9b2o$187bobo7bobo$181bo5bo8bo6b2o2b2o$180bobo13bo2bo2bo2bob2o$
42b2o129b2o4bob2o13bo6b2o$42b3o128b2o3b2ob2o14bobo$33b2o9b2obo11bo119b
ob2o15b2o$33bo5bo4bo2bo10b2o120bobo$38bo5b2obo9b2o4b2o2b2o112bo$34bo3b
o3b3o11b3o4b2o2b2o$36bo5b2o13b2o4b2o$58b2o$59bo117bobo$172bo4bo2bo$
173b2o5b2o8bo$57bo110b2o8bo3b2o5bobo$55b4o109b2o10b2o6bob2o$46b2o5b4ob
2o117bo2bo6b2ob2o10b2o$44bo2bo3bo3b2ob3o8b2o106bobo8bob2o10b2o$43bo7bo
3b2ob2o9b2o118bobo$35b2o6bo6bo3b5o113b2o6bo9bo$35b2o6bo7b3o3bo114b2o5b
o$44bo2bo131b3o$46b2o17b2o$65b2o$59bo115bo$60b2o112b3o$59b2o112bo3bo$
159b2o11b3o2b2o$158bobo5b2o4b3o2bo$158bo7b2o4b3o$78b2o77b2o14bobo$65b
3o10bobo93b2o$80bo82b2o7b3o$65bo2bo11b2o80bobo6bo2bo$66b2o94bo7bo3bo$
74b2o85b2o8bob2o$74bobo102b2o$60bo15bo102bobo$60b2o14b2o101bo$59bobo5$
186b3o9b2o$52b2o132bo9bo2bo7bo$53b2o126bo5bo7bo7b2o3bo$42bo9bo126b4o
12bo6bo5bo$42bobo128b2o3bobob2o11bo7b5o$30b2o11bobo9b2o116b2o2bo2bob3o
11bo2bo$30b2o11bo2bo7b3o121bobob2o14b2o$43bobo5bob2o9b2o113b4o$42bobo
6bo2bo4bo5bo115bo$42bo8bob2o5bo$54b3o3bo3bo$55b2o5bo!
Last edited by Dean Hickerson on March 26th, 2016, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby dvgrn » March 6th, 2016, 11:37 am

muzik wrote:Looks like I don't know anything about anything at this point. How, exactly, do I use wls?

Some stuff goes from left to right when I start the search, and then it recedes back eventually and gives no results. I'm hopeless.

No, actually that's just what happens to everybody on their first WLS search.

The problem is that it's very easy to set up a search problem with too many unknown cells, and then search with a cell ordering that makes it unlikely that a solution will be found. WLS theoretically does an exhaustive search, but if you start on the left side of a big blank area and work toward the right, that often has the effect of making WLS go through trillions of left-edge combinations that don't work before it finds the first configuration that happens to work with... whatever it might eventually find in the middle.

It's much better to come up with a likely candidate for the middle, first. That constrains what the edge can look like, so that WLS can quickly throw away a lot more unworkable options and get to a solution quicker. There are settings in WLS for symmetry, and also for where to start the search and how to expand from there (diamond shaped, circular, etc.)

If you have trillions of useless combinations of edge cells to wade through, all of them theoretically potentially workable, WLS will never get amywhere. "Trillions" is probably an underestimate in many cases, especially at high periods. In practice you have to constrain the search space, probably until there are _no_ solutions, and then gradually widen it out until you find one solution, or just a few.

To bring the topic vaguely back toward the subject of this thread: it would be interesting to see if WLS can be set up to find a copperhead spaceship. Make an area that's about 12x16 by 10 ticks; fill in around the edges in every generation with a double layer of OFF cells; put a block in at T=0 (and maybe a few nearby generations); set up WLS so that generation 0 follows generation 9 at a 1-cell offset -- there's a setting for that, so make sure to go and find it.

Before you do that, maybe search for something easy like an HWSS first, or even a glider -- if you just leave WLS a *WSS or glider-sized area, it should be able to find a solution pretty much instantly, to give you some confidence that you know how to set all the settings correctly.

muzik wrote:My computer is windows 10 (bought as windows 8 ), bought in December 2013, and has ~1TB of memory, so will it have a compiler?

No, Windows is uniquely lousy about having any kind of useful programming language pre-installed. A good place to start might be to download Cygwin, though that opens a new can of worms for you by kind of pretending to be Linux, so there are some new conventions that are subtly different if you're used to working from a DOS command prompt.

If you don't know anything about DOS command prompts either, though, then maybe Cygwin is a good place for a fresh start! I _think_, even though you have a 64-bit system, you'll probably be happier with the 32-bit version of Cygwin, in terms of getting simple old C code like gfind to compile. EDIT: Or if you take Apple Bottom's advice, below, get the 64-bit version of cygwin and then make sure you use the latest gfind source code (updated to work with 64-bit compilers a few years ago).

Another likely option is the free version of Microsoft's Visual Studio, which has a C/C++ compiler included, and gives you a "Visual Studio Command Prompt" shortcut to start from. Not sure I can recommend that option in good conscience, though, so I'm not including a link...!

Again, any further experimentation or questions along code-compiling lines should probably go in a separate thread (new or existing), so that people who are interested in the copperhead specifically can talk about that here.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby Apple Bottom » March 6th, 2016, 11:44 am

muzik wrote:My computer is windows 10 (bought as windows 8 ), bought in December 2013, and has ~1TB of memory, so will it have a compiler?


This should probably be split off into its own thread, but that said-- nope, Windows unfortunately doesn't ship with any tools for software development.

Your best bet's to use Cygwin, which provides a Unix/Linux-like environment on Windows. (Grab the 64-bit version rather than the 32-bit one, BTW, unless you're stuck on a 32-bit OS.) At a minimum you'll want the following packages (which I think are not selected by default): binutils, gcc-core, gcc-g++, make.

There's also MinGW, but that's more for developing native Windows applications.

Hope this helps!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby simeks » March 6th, 2016, 12:07 pm

Congratulations to zdr!
If you found this in 19 seconds, it makes me wonder what else you might have found already... ;)

muzik wrote:Been trying to find an effective eater for this ship.

Here is a working eater found with Bellman:

x = 22, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
20.2C$14.2C5.C$14.C.C.3C$16.C.C$16.2C9$2C$.C2.C8.2A$.C.C.C6.A2.A$2C.
2C7.A2.A$11.A4.A$2C.2C6.A4.A$2C.C8.4A$5.C5.2A2.2A$4.2C5.A4.A$11.A4.A
3$12.4A$13.2A!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby dvgrn » March 6th, 2016, 1:38 pm

simeks wrote:Here is a working eater found with Bellman...

Did anything show up that could produce an output signal?

It's easy to modify your eater to get a glider out, and then bolt on some extra junk to turn that into a clean Herschel. But the recovery time isn't so good:

x = 55, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
29.2A$28.A.A$22.2A4.A$20.A2.A2.2A.4A$20.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$23.A.ABABAB$23.
A.AB2AB$24.AB.2B$19.A7.3B$17.3A6.5B6.2A$16.A8.3B2AB6.A$15.A.A6.4B2AB
3.BA.A$14.BA.A5.10B.B2A$13.3BA5.13B$11.4B6.14B$9.6B5.15B$8.7B4.4B2.8B
$.B.4B.8B2.4B5.6B$2AB.17B4.4B.4B$2A18B5.2A4.4B$.2B.16B6.A5.4B17.2C$4.
10B2.4B3.3A7.4B10.2C5.C$5.15B3.A10.4B9.C.C.3C$6.12B.B2A.A11.4B10.C.C$
6.11B2.BA.A.2A10.4B8.B2C$7.10B5.A2.A11.4B8.2B$7.6B2A2B5.2A14.4B3.5B$
7.6B2A3B21.4B.6B$7.10B23.6B2D2B$3.A.2AB.8B24.5BDBD2B$.3AB2AB3.7B20.B.
7BDBDB$A4.B6.6B19.2A9BD2B$.3A.2A4.6B20.2AB.10B$3.2A2.A4.5B21.B$6.A.A.
8B28.2A$2.A.2A.A.A8B27.A2.A$2.2A.A.BA2B.6B7.2A18.A2.A$5.A2.2B2.2B3D2B
6.A18.A4.A$5.2A.B3.2BD4B3.BA.A18.A4.A$3.2A2.A.A2.B3D4B2.B2A20.4A$2.A
2.A2.2A2.11B21.2A2.2A$3.2A7.11B21.A4.A$12.11B21.A4.A$13.11B$13.2B.7B$
12.11B22.4A$12.10B24.2A$10.12B$8.13B$7.17B$7.18B$5.2AB.13B2A2B$4.A.AB
3.4B.6B2AB$4.A8.B4.8B$3.2A15.6B2.B$19.7B.2B$19.6B.3B$20.9B$20.8B$19.
8B$19.7B$19.6B$18.7B$18.7B$17.8B$17.8B$17.8B$17.8B$17.7B4$17.2A$16.A
2.A$17.2A!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby velcrorex » March 6th, 2016, 2:00 pm

muzik wrote:
moebius wrote:I still like writing search programs. Like Josh I ran the c/10 search in my latest program "knightt" and rediscovered your ship in 10 hours.

How long does it take to rediscover the loafer?


I'm not sure if anyone has done a full 10 cell wide asymmetric search for c/7. I found the loafer in wls doing a search down a diagonal channel. There was not really any logical reason to do this, perhaps just to search something no one else had searched, but it happened to work out. Not sure how long the search took; days maybe?

I've attached a save of the wls file just before the loafer was found. You can also reset the search to see how it was setup. You may need to rename the file extension to wdf, as I had to change it to txt to upload it.
Attachments
7ch4.txt
wls save, just before the loafer was found
(102.63 KiB) Downloaded 81 times
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby drc » March 6th, 2016, 3:51 pm

I am determined to find this thing in D2_+2. Anyone want to join?
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 4:14 pm

WLS is acting differently now. Instead of racing to the right and back, it's slowly going back and forth.

How do I try to search for patterns of different sizes?

codeholic: This is offtopic in this thread. Please ask questions about how to use search programs in dedicated threads in the Scripts forum.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby Alexey_Nigin » March 6th, 2016, 4:28 pm

In case anyone other than me is interested, the apgcode of this spaceship is

xq10_o5995ozes88sezw33
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 4:31 pm

Trying to find the ship with wls now. 6x12 bounding box, translating downwards by 1 cell, and searching for period 10.
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby simeks » March 6th, 2016, 4:44 pm

dvgrn wrote:Did anything show up that could produce an output signal?

No, nothing except the one you already noticed. Maybe a deeper search will find something.

I did find a simpler eater:

x = 19, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
17.2C$17.C$14.2C.C$13.C2.C$13.2C2$2C$.C$.C.C$2.2C5.2A$8.A2.A$8.A2.A$
7.A4.A$7.A4.A$8.4A$7.2A2.2A$7.A4.A$7.A4.A3$8.4A$9.2A!

Also, a slightly smaller (6×11) predecessor (doesn't it look like spaceman ready for take-off?):

x = 6, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
2.2A$.A2.A$.A2.A$A4.A$A4.A$.4A$2A2.2A$A.2A.A$A.2A.A$2.2A$.4A!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby codeholic » March 6th, 2016, 4:50 pm

simeks wrote:I did find a simpler eater:

It's funny how there is a HighLife's p10 in generation 44 :P
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 5:58 pm

The wiki page could really do with an animated image of the eater in action.

Has anyone seriously tried to find tagalongs for this yet? I'd say that something that could be pulled along with the block, or perturbed by the block's change of position, might be a point of interest. It can eat one block off a beacon, failing to actually preserve the block (not what we want!). and then become an interchange:
x = 10, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o$2b2o$2b2o!



Another mildly interesting reaction: two of these will multiply blocks before also becoming interchanges:

x = 10, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$3b4o2$2b6o$3b4o2$2b2o2b2o$2obo2bob2o$3bo2bo3$4b2o$4b2o3$3bo2bo$2o
bo2bob2o$2b2o2b2o2$3b4o$2b6o2$3b4o$4b2o!
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby muzik » March 6th, 2016, 6:38 pm

New WLS/gfind discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2061

Please post tutorial info there. Trying to keep this thread clean
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Re: is this c/10 spaceship known?

Postby Freywa » March 6th, 2016, 6:49 pm

zdr is a problem with the community because he will not reveal his name or the techniques used to find the spaceship. I have reached out to him to get his details out, but it seems he's a "hit-and-run" user who only cares about the fame.

Conway's Life is a field of mathematics; like all fields of mathematics the research into it is open and honest. Yet zdr is selfish (for the reasons mentioned above). What can we do about this?
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