ConwayLife.com - A community for Conway's Game of Life and related cellular automata
Home  •  LifeWiki  •  Forums  •  Download Golly

New construction arms

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » May 26th, 2016, 5:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:Where exactly did you leave off on the search program, anyway?

There are some obvious things that need to be added still. In particular detecting an escaping glider that's generated by an input glider other than the one that also restores the elbow, and not wasting time testing different spacings of two (or more) gliders when it's obvious that the pattern settles before the second one has a chance to interact with it. The good news is I'm working on those things now...

dvgrn wrote:How many elbow types are known now, with conversion recipes (that either do or don't produce gliders) between the different types?

It hasn't felt like a priority yet to evaluate different possible elbows, so I don't really know more than what is evident from what I've posted already.
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 6th, 2016, 4:22 pm

dvgrn wrote:Maybe there's still a decent universal set of elbow operations at a 115-tick repeat time?

The limit of what is possible is way higher than that... For a pi explosion from a block, the limit seems to be 213 ticks! With a different elbow probably a bit higher.
Here's a recipe with minimum distance 213:

x = 6209, y = 6200, rule = LifeHistory
6207.2E$6207.2E7$6202.2A$6201.A.A$6203.A51$6149.A$6149.2A$6148.A.A
126$6021.A$6021.2A$6020.A.A41$5953.A$5952.A$5952.3A45$5931.2A$5932.2A
$5931.A79$5826.A$5824.2A$5825.2A45$5803.3A$5805.A$5804.A7$5769.A$
5768.A$5768.3A117$5675.2A$5676.2A$5675.A7$5642.A$5640.2A$5641.2A53$
5611.3A$5613.A$5612.A71$5513.A$5512.A$5512.3A53$5483.3A$5485.A$5484.A
71$5386.A$5384.2A$5385.2A53$5355.3A$5357.A$5356.A71$5257.A$5256.A$
5256.3A53$5227.3A$5229.A$5228.A71$5130.A$5128.2A$5129.2A53$5099.3A$
5101.A$5100.A33$5039.A.A$5039.2A$5040.A91$4971.3A$4973.A$4972.A33$
4911.A$4911.A.A$4911.2A91$4843.3A$4845.A$4844.A$4816.A$4814.2A$4815.
2A50$4788.3A$4790.A$4789.A74$4688.A$4686.2A$4687.2A50$4660.3A$4662.A$
4661.A61$4597.3A$4599.A$4598.A11$4559.A$4558.A$4558.3A113$4469.2A$
4470.2A$4469.A11$4432.A$4430.2A$4431.2A57$4397.2A$4398.2A$4397.A67$
4303.A$4302.A$4302.3A57$4269.3A$4271.A$4270.A67$4175.A$4174.A$4174.3A
31$4167.2A$4168.2A$4167.A93$4048.A$4046.2A$4047.2A31$4039.3A$4041.A$
4040.A48$3964.A.A$3964.2A$3965.A76$3911.3A$3913.A$3912.A48$3836.A$
3836.A.A$3836.2A76$3783.3A$3785.A$3784.A48$3708.A$3708.A.A$3708.2A76$
3655.3A$3657.A$3656.A48$3580.A$3580.A.A$3580.2A4$3599.2A$3600.2A$
3599.A120$3452.A$3452.A.A$3452.2A4$3471.3A$3473.A$3472.A120$3324.A.A$
3324.2A$3325.A4$3343.2A$3344.2A$3343.A57$3284.A$3284.2A$3283.A.A61$
3196.A$3196.A.A$3196.2A63$3156.2A$3155.A.A$3157.A53$3101.2A$3102.2A$
3101.A6$3068.A$3068.A.A$3068.2A118$2973.3A$2975.A$2974.A6$2940.A$
2940.A.A$2940.2A71$2892.3A$2894.A$2893.A53$2812.A$2812.A.A$2812.2A71$
2764.3A$2766.A$2765.A53$2684.A.A$2684.2A$2685.A71$2636.3A$2638.A$
2637.A53$2556.A$2556.A.A$2556.2A71$2508.3A$2510.A$2509.A53$2428.A$
2428.A.A$2428.2A71$2380.3A$2382.A$2381.A53$2300.A$2300.A.A$2300.2A71$
2252.3A$2254.A$2253.A53$2172.A$2172.A.A$2172.2A71$2124.2A$2125.2A$
2124.A53$2044.A$2044.A.A$2044.2A71$1996.3A$1998.A$1997.A53$1916.A$
1916.A.A$1916.2A7$1932.3A$1934.A$1933.A117$1788.A.A$1788.2A$1789.A7$
1804.3A$1806.A$1805.A63$1739.2A$1738.A.A$1740.A52$1660.A$1660.A.A$
1660.2A72$1611.2A$1610.A.A$1612.A52$1532.A$1532.A.A$1532.2A72$1483.A$
1483.2A$1482.A.A52$1404.A$1404.A.A$1404.2A72$1355.2A$1354.A.A$1356.A
52$1276.A$1276.A.A$1276.2A6$1293.A$1293.2A$1292.A.A118$1148.A$1148.A.
A$1148.2A6$1165.2A$1164.A.A$1166.A56$1107.2A$1108.2A$1107.A60$1020.A$
1020.A.A$1020.2A64$979.2A$980.2A$979.A60$892.A$892.A.A$892.2A64$851.
3A$853.A$852.A60$764.A.A$764.2A$765.A57$705.A$704.A$704.3A5$723.3A$
725.A$724.A119$577.A$576.A$576.3A5$595.3A$597.A$596.A119$449.A$448.A$
448.3A5$467.3A$469.A$468.A119$322.A$320.2A$321.2A5$339.2A$340.2A$339.
A119$194.A$192.2A$193.2A5$211.3A$213.A$212.A119$65.A$64.A$64.3A5$83.
2A$84.2A$83.A33$9.A$9.3A$12.A$11.2A3$2A.2A$2A.A$3.A$3.3A4.2A$.2A3.A3.
2A$A2.4A$2A.A15.2A$.A2.3A12.A.A2.2A$.A5.A13.A2.A$2.5A14.3A2.A$4.A19.
3A$23.A$23.2A7$13.2A$12.A.A5.2A$12.A7.2A$11.2A2$25.A$21.2A.A.A$20.A.A
.A.A$17.A2.A.A.A.2A$17.4A.2A2.A$21.A4.A$17.2A2.A.3A$17.2A3.2A!
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 6th, 2016, 6:14 pm

simeks wrote:
dvgrn wrote:Maybe there's still a decent universal set of elbow operations at a 115-tick repeat time?

The limit of what is possible is way higher than that... For a pi explosion from a block, the limit seems to be 213 ticks!

Impressive. Do you have a universal set of 213-tick-repeat elbow operations, or does it just look like such a set could be found, based on the existence of this horribly long glider-emitting pi cleanup?

Probably we should build a few conduits with 115-tick repeat time, just to see how much nicer they look in terms of the geometry. Is there any reasonable way to estimate the relative efficiency of 115-tick recipes vs. 90-tick-recipes?
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 12th, 2016, 3:11 pm

dvgrn wrote: Do you have a universal set of 213-tick-repeat elbow operations, or does it just look like such a set could be found, based on the existence of this horribly long glider-emitting pi cleanup?

No, I stopped with that, but it seems likely to me based on how it just goes on and on finding new ways to modify the current pattern, that a universal set can be found.

I have been able to show that you can make a universal set that works at a minimum distance of 153 (the repeat time of spartan HR64H), even if you just pick one promising elbow of the ones I'm looking into:

#C /* e17->e17, +12 */  {  0,   0, 203,   1, 168,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0, 164,   1,   1,   1, 156,   0, 169,   1,   1, 201,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0, 193,   1,   0,   1,   1,   1,   1, 154,   0,   0, 180,   1,  -1},
#C /* e17->e25, +12 */  {  0,   0, 203,   1, 168,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0, 164,   1,   1,   1, 156,   0, 169,   1,   1, 201,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0, 193,   1,   0,   1,   1,   1,   1, 154,   0,   0, 180,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e17, -02 */  {  0,   0, 203,   1, 229,   1,   1,   1, 156,   0,   1, 162,   1,   0,   0, 154,   0, 187,   1,   0,   0,   0,   0, 289,   1, 156,   1, 163,   1, 198,   1, 158,  -1},
#C /* e17->e17, -18 */  {  0,   0, 249,   1,   1,   0,   0,   1,   0,   1, 198,   1,   0,   1,   1, 159,   1, 158,   1, 203,   0, 229,   1,   0,   0,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e25, -18 */  {  0,   0, 249,   1,   1,   0,   0,   1,   0,   1, 198,   1,   0,   1,   1, 159,   0, 157,   0, 202,   0, 229,   1,   0,   0,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e25, +11 */  {  0,   0, 240,   1,   1, 163,   0,   1, 256,   0,   0,   1, 155,   0,   1,   0,   1, 282,   0, 206,   1, 202,   0, 190,   0,   1,   0,   0, 158,   0,   1,   0,   0, 175,   1,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e17, +22, gl=0, +05 */  {  0,   0, 249,   1,   0,   1,   0,   1, 228,   0, 206,   0,   1, 197,   0,   0,   0, 188,   0,   0,   0, 192,   1, 282,   0,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e17, -12, gl=0, -12 */  {  0,   0, 170,   1,   1, 168,   1, 171,   1, 154,   0,   0,   1,   1, 186,   0,   1,   1, 168,   0,   0, 192,   0, 168,   0,   1,  -1},
#C /* e17->e25, -12, gl=0, -12 */  {  0,   0, 170,   1,   1, 168,   1, 171,   1, 154,   0,   0,   1,   1, 186,   0,   1,   1, 168,   0,   0, 192,   0, 168,   0,   0,  -1},
#C /* e17->e25, -02, gl=0, -12 */  {  0,   0, 210,   1,   0,   0,   1,   0, 167,   0,   0,   0, 182,   0,   1, 179,   0,   1,   0,   1,   1, 185,   0, 197,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   1,  -1},
x = 3208, y = 2638, rule = LifeHistory
2374.2A$2374.2A$2404.A$2403.A.A$2368.2A34.2A$2368.2A$2372.2A30.2A$
2372.2A29.A.A$2404.A3$2367.2A$2367.2A15$2387.2A$2387.A.A$2389.A$2389.
2A7$2379.2A$2370.2A7.2A$2371.A$2371.A.A$2372.2A$2389.2A$2389.2A$2399.
2A$2399.A$2397.A.A$2397.2A9$2393.2A$2393.A.A$2395.A$2395.2A6$2323.C
54.2A183.C63.C63.C63.C63.C95.C95.C63.C63.C63.C$2323.C54.2A183.C63.C
63.C63.C63.C95.C95.C63.C63.C63.C$2323.C62.2A175.C63.C63.C63.C63.C95.C
95.C63.C63.C63.C$2386.A$2319.3C3.3C59.3A169.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C
55.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C87.3C3.3C87.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C55.3C3.3C$2389.
A$2323.C239.C63.C63.C63.C63.C95.C95.C63.C63.C63.C$2323.C64.A174.C63.C
63.C63.C63.C95.C95.C63.C63.C63.C$2323.C63.A.A173.C63.C63.C63.C63.C95.
C95.C63.C63.C63.C$2387.A.A$2386.2A.3A$2392.A$2386.2A.3A$2386.2A.A$
2557.2A62.2A62.2A62.2A62.2A94.2A94.2A62.2A62.2A62.2A$2378.2A176.A.A
61.A.A61.A.A61.A.A61.A.A93.A.A93.A.A61.A.A61.A.A61.A.A$2369.2A7.2A
178.A63.A63.A63.A63.A95.A95.A63.A63.A63.A$2370.A$2370.A.A$2371.2A4$
2391.2A$2391.2A5$2376.A$2375.A.A$2375.A.A$2376.A$2373.3A$2373.A7$
2355.2A$2354.A.A$2356.A51$2477.2A62.2A62.2A62.2A62.2A94.2A94.2A62.2A
62.2A62.2A$2476.A.A61.A.A61.A.A61.A.A61.A.A93.A.A93.A.A61.A.A61.A.A
61.A.A$2478.A63.A63.A63.A63.A95.A95.A63.A63.A63.A25$2275.2A$2274.A.A$
2276.A14$2946.3A61.3A$2948.A63.A$2947.A63.A6$2426.2A62.2A62.2A$2427.
2A62.2A62.2A$2426.A63.A63.A509.3A$3066.A$3065.A5$2769.2A$2768.A.A$
2607.A63.A98.A92.A$2607.2A62.2A190.2A$2606.A.A61.A.A189.A.A6$2232.3A$
2234.A$2233.A51$2866.2A62.2A$2867.2A62.2A$2866.A63.A6$2346.2A62.2A62.
2A$2347.2A62.2A62.2A$2346.A63.A63.A509.2A$2985.2A$2984.A5$2689.A$
2689.2A$2527.A63.A96.A.A92.A$2527.2A62.2A190.2A$2526.A.A61.A.A189.A.A
6$2152.2A$2153.2A$2152.A21$2304.3A61.3A$2306.A63.A$2305.A63.A13$2417.
2A$2418.2A$2417.A13$2786.2A62.2A$2787.2A62.2A$2786.A63.A8$2904.3A$
2906.A$2905.A5$2609.A$2609.2A$2447.A63.A96.A.A92.2A$2447.2A62.2A189.A
.A$2446.A.A61.A.A191.A6$2072.2A$2073.2A$2072.A13$2744.3A61.3A$2746.A
63.A$2745.A63.A6$2224.3A61.3A$2226.A63.A$2225.A63.A6$2568.2A$2569.2A$
2568.A5$2337.2A$2338.2A$2337.A2$2030.3A$2032.A$2031.A19$2824.3A$2826.
A$2825.A7$2367.2A62.2A190.A$2366.A.A61.A.A190.2A$2368.A63.A189.A.A21$
2664.2A62.2A$2665.2A62.2A$2664.A63.A6$2144.3A61.3A$2146.A63.A$2145.A
63.A6$2488.3A$2490.A$2489.A5$2257.2A$2258.2A$2257.A2$1950.2A$1951.2A$
1950.A13$2622.A63.A$2622.2A62.2A$2621.A.A61.A.A4$2744.2A$2745.2A$
2744.A7$2287.2A62.2A190.2A$2286.A.A61.A.A189.A.A$2288.A63.A191.A10$
1908.A$1908.2A$1907.A.A17$2064.2A62.2A$2065.2A62.2A$2064.A63.A6$2408.
2A$2409.2A$2408.A5$2177.2A$2178.2A$2177.A17$2542.A63.A$2542.2A62.2A$
2541.A.A61.A.A4$2664.3A$2666.A$2665.A7$2207.A63.A191.A$2207.2A62.2A
190.2A$2206.A.A61.A.A189.A.A3$2138.3A$2140.A$2139.A5$1828.A$1828.2A$
1827.A.A9$2344.3A$2346.A156.3A61.3A$2345.A159.A63.A$2504.A63.A5$1984.
3A61.3A$1986.A63.A572.A$1985.A63.A573.2A$2622.A.A17$1789.3A$1791.A$
1790.A4$2406.2A$2405.A.A$2407.A21$2127.2A62.2A$2126.A.A61.A.A$2128.A
63.A3$2058.3A$2060.A$2059.A16$2264.3A$2266.A156.3A61.3A$2265.A159.A
63.A$2424.A63.A5$1904.3A61.3A$1906.A63.A572.2A$1905.A63.A572.A.A$
2544.A17$1709.3A$1711.A$1710.A4$2326.2A$2325.A.A$2327.A13$1863.3A61.
3A$1865.A63.A$1864.A63.A6$2047.A63.A$2047.2A62.2A$2046.A.A61.A.A3$
1978.2A$1979.2A$1978.A16$2184.3A$2186.A156.3A61.3A$2185.A159.A63.A$
2344.A63.A3$2274.3A$2276.A$2275.A$2463.2A$2462.A.A$2464.A11$1938.2A$
1937.A.A$1939.A3$1997.3A61.3A$1629.3A367.A63.A$1631.A366.A63.A$1630.A
19$1783.2A62.2A$1784.2A62.2A$1783.A63.A29$2104.2A$2105.2A156.2A62.2A$
2104.A159.2A62.2A$2263.A63.A3$2194.3A$2196.A$2195.A$2383.2A$2382.A.A$
2384.A11$1858.A$1858.2A$1857.A.A3$1917.2A62.2A$1549.2A367.2A62.2A$
1550.2A365.A63.A$1549.A8$2066.A$2066.2A$2065.A.A9$1703.2A62.2A$1704.
2A62.2A$1703.A63.A4$2337.3A$2339.A$2338.A24$2183.2A62.2A$2184.2A62.2A
$2183.A63.A3$2114.2A$2115.2A$2114.A14$1778.2A$1777.A.A$1779.A3$1837.
3A61.3A$1469.2A368.A63.A$1470.2A366.A63.A$1469.A8$1986.2A$1985.A.A$
1987.A7$2137.2A62.2A$2136.A.A61.A.A$1623.2A62.2A449.A63.A$1624.2A62.
2A$1623.A63.A4$2065.2A190.3A$2066.2A191.A$2065.A192.A17$1423.2A$1422.
A.A$1424.A12$1584.3A61.3A$1586.A63.A$1585.A63.A12$1698.2A$1697.A.A$
1699.A3$1757.2A62.2A$1758.2A62.2A$1757.A63.A9$1906.A$1906.2A$1905.A.A
7$2057.2A62.2A$2056.A.A61.A.A$2058.A63.A6$1985.3A189.2A$1987.A190.2A$
1986.A190.A4$1659.3A$1661.A$1660.A11$1343.2A$1342.A.A$1344.A12$1504.
3A61.3A$1506.A63.A$1505.A63.A9$2133.A$2133.2A$2132.A.A6$1677.2A62.2A$
1678.2A62.2A$1677.A63.A9$1826.2A$1825.A.A$1827.A7$1977.A63.A$1977.2A
62.2A$1976.A.A61.A.A$1462.2A62.2A$1463.2A62.2A$1462.A63.A3$1905.3A$
1907.A$1906.A4$1579.3A$1581.A$1580.A3$1638.A63.A$1638.2A62.2A$1637.A.
A61.A.A6$1263.A$1263.2A$1262.A.A23$2053.2A$2052.A.A$2054.A6$1533.A$
1533.2A$1532.A.A9$1746.A$1746.2A$1745.A.A7$1897.A63.A$1897.2A62.2A$
1896.A.A61.A.A$1382.2A62.2A$1383.2A62.2A$1382.A63.A3$1825.3A$1827.A$
1826.A9$1558.A63.2A$1558.2A61.A.A$1557.A.A63.A6$1183.A$1183.2A$1182.A
.A13$1855.2A62.2A$1854.A.A61.A.A$1856.A63.A8$1973.A$1973.2A$1972.A.A$
1778.3A$1780.A$1779.A$1583.A$1518.3A62.2A$1453.A66.A61.A.A$1453.2A64.
A$1452.A.A220.3A$1677.A$1676.A5$1141.2A$1140.A.A$1142.A12$1302.2A62.
2A$1303.2A62.2A$1302.A63.A37$1775.2A62.2A$1774.A.A61.A.A$1776.A63.A8$
1893.2A$1252.2A62.2A574.A.A$1253.2A62.2A575.A$1252.A63.A381.3A$1700.A
$1699.A$1503.2A$1438.2A62.A.A$1373.2A64.2A63.A$1372.A.A63.A$1374.A
220.3A$1597.A$1596.A5$1061.2A$1060.A.A$1062.A38$1388.A63.3A$1388.2A
64.A$1387.A.A63.A2$1544.2A$1543.A.A$1545.A7$1695.2A62.2A$1694.A.A61.A
.A$1696.A63.A8$1813.A$1172.3A61.3A574.2A$1174.A63.A573.A.A$1173.A63.A
380.3A$1620.A$1619.A3$1293.2A$1292.A.A$1294.A7$981.2A$980.A.A$982.A
19$1647.2A62.2A$1646.A.A61.A.A$1648.A63.A17$1308.2A62.3A$1307.A.A64.A
$1309.A63.A2$1464.A$1464.2A$1463.A.A2$933.2A$932.A.A$934.A13$1733.A$
1092.2A62.2A575.2A$1093.2A62.2A573.A.A$1092.A63.A381.3A$1540.A$1539.A
3$1213.2A$1212.A.A$1214.A22$1413.3A$1415.A$1251.A63.2A97.A$1251.2A63.
2A$1250.A.A62.A2$1567.2A62.2A$1566.A.A61.A.A$1568.A63.A6$1687.A$1687.
2A$1686.A.A3$1490.3A$1492.A$1491.A12$853.2A$852.A.A$854.A13$1525.2A
62.2A$1012.3A61.3A445.A.A61.A.A$1014.A63.A447.A63.A$1013.A63.A5$1133.
2A$1132.A.A$1134.A17$811.2A$810.A.A$812.A3$1333.3A$1335.A$1171.A63.2A
97.A$1171.2A63.2A$1170.A.A62.A10$1607.2A$1606.A.A$1608.A3$1410.2A$
1411.2A$1410.A26$1286.2A$1061.A223.A.A157.2A62.2A$932.3A61.3A62.2A
224.A156.A.A61.A.A$934.A63.A61.A.A383.A63.A$933.A63.A12$1558.A$1558.
2A$1557.A.A10$731.2A$730.A.A$732.A5$1091.2A62.3A$1090.A.A64.A$1092.A
63.A5$1340.2A$1339.A.A$1341.A36$1206.2A$981.A223.A.A157.A63.2A$852.3A
61.3A62.2A224.A157.2A61.A.A$854.A63.A61.A.A381.A.A63.A$853.A63.A12$
1478.2A$1477.A.A$1479.A10$651.A$651.2A$650.A.A5$1011.2A62.3A$1010.A.A
64.A$1012.A63.A3$942.2A$941.A.A$943.A316.2A$1259.A.A$1261.A6$804.2A
62.2A$805.2A62.2A$804.A63.A28$1126.A$1126.2A$1125.A.A14$1398.2A$1397.
A.A$1399.A17$931.2A62.3A$930.A.A64.A$932.A63.A3$862.A$862.2A$861.A.A
316.2A$1179.A.A$1181.A6$724.2A62.2A$725.2A62.2A$724.A63.A28$1046.2A$
821.2A222.A.A$822.2A223.A$821.A13$1318.2A$1317.A.A$1319.A32$644.3A61.
3A$646.A63.A$645.A63.A28$966.2A$741.2A222.A.A$742.2A223.A$741.A13$
1238.A$1238.2A$1237.A.A22$926.3A$928.A$927.A8$564.2A62.2A62.2A$565.2A
62.2A60.A.A$564.A63.A64.A44$1158.2A$1157.A.A$1159.A22$846.3A$848.A$
847.A8$484.2A62.2A62.A$485.2A62.2A61.2A$484.A63.A62.A.A38$572.3A$574.
A$573.A4$1078.A$1078.2A$1077.A.A22$766.2A$767.2A$766.A8$404.2A62.2A$
405.2A62.2A$404.A63.A68$686.3A$688.A$687.A8$324.2A62.2A$325.2A62.2A$
324.A63.A36$286.2A62.2A$285.A.A61.A.A$287.A63.A30$606.3A$608.A$607.A
41$563.A$563.2A$562.A.A3$206.2A62.2A$205.A.A61.A.A$207.A63.A73$483.A$
483.2A$482.A.A3$126.2A62.2A$125.A.A61.A.A$127.A63.A43$81.2A62.2A$80.A
.A61.A.A$82.A63.A28$403.2A$402.A.A$404.A48$.A63.2A$.2A61.A.A$A.A63.A!

dvgrn wrote:Is there any reasonable way to estimate the relative efficiency of 115-tick recipes vs. 90-tick-recipes?

I have looked into this, using the full set of 41 elbows, by comparing how many results are generated by a particular glider count, using similar search settings besides the minimum distance.
The result is that with a minimum distance of 115 it takes about 35% more input gliders to get the same number of recipes.

I also have a rough estimate of how many gliders that is in absolute numbers. There are enough results with a glider output that we will rarely need any dedicated elbow moves as long as the elbow doesn't need to move too long. We can just pick a suitable recipe that outputs the right glider and moves the elbow to a suitable new position in the process.

Given that, I estimate that we can get down to an average of 18 input gliders for each output glider at minimum distance 90, and about 24 gliders at minimum distance 115.
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 12th, 2016, 10:21 pm

simeks wrote:I have been able to show that you can make a universal set that works at a minimum distance of 153 (the repeat time of spartan HR64H), even if you just pick one promising elbow of the ones I'm looking into...

Interesting! That brings another minor self-construction variant within easy reach.

You mentioned that single-channel construction allows for a single-channel Demonoid variant using only one replicator unit per side, instead of two. Single-channel-153 construction could actually use the exact same replicator unit as the 0hd Demonoid, including the self-destruct mechanism, and therefore the same slow salvo.

The problem with single-channel-153 is that the elbow-op reactions are likely to take up at least a little more space than the 0hd glider-pair ops. There isn't any clearance to spare -- some of the intermediate targets get frighteningly close to the construction lane -- so we'd have to have a universal subset of single-channel-153 with the active reaction all on one side show. I think there was some hope of that with single-channel-90, but maybe not for 153?

The other option would be to show off a kind of self-construction that hasn't been done yet: building a freeze-dried slow salvo on the other side of the construction lane from the replicator unit. Build as much of the replicator unit as can be safely built with single-channel-153, then trigger the freeze-dried slow salvo to produce the rest of the gliders.

That approach is more expensive, but it magically gets rid of all the clearance issues. And a Demonoid that only ever has at most a single 180-degree fold in the data stream, will run in Golly a lot faster.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 14th, 2016, 4:24 pm

dvgrn wrote:so we'd have to have a universal subset of single-channel-153 with the active reaction all on one side show. I think there was some hope of that with single-channel-90, but maybe not for 153?

It is possible to find recipes that are pretty narrow on one side even at a minimum glider distance of 153:

#C /* E17->E17, -18, gl=2, -23 */  {  0,   0, 242,   0, 165,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   1,   1, 220,   0,   0,   0, 154,   0,   0,   1, 156,   0,   0,   1,   0,   1,   0,   0, 160,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1, 154,   0,   0,   0,   0, 175,  -1},
#C /* E17->E17, -18, gl=2, +14 */  {  0,   0, 203,   0, 256,   1,   1,   0, 206,   0,   1, 179,   0,   0,   0, 253,   1, 172,   0,   0,   0,   1, 210,   0,   0, 153,   1, 217,   0,   0, 193,   0,   0,   0,   0, 159,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0, 170,   0, 171,   1,  -1},
#C /* E17->E25, -18, gl=2, -23 */  {  0,   0, 242,   0, 165,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0, 219,   0,   0,   1, 155,   1,   1,   0, 155,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0,   1, 161,   0,   1,   1,   1,   0, 153,   0,   0,   1,   1, 176,  -1},
#C /* E17->E25, -18, gl=2, +14 */  {  0,   0, 203,   0, 256,   1,   1,   0, 206,   0,   1, 179,   0,   0,   0, 253,   1, 172,   0,   0,   0,   1, 210,   0,   0, 153,   0, 216,   1,   1, 194,   1,   0,   0,   1, 160,   1,   1,   1,   0,   1,   1,   1, 171,   1, 172,   0,  -1},
#C /* E17->E33, +27 */  {  0,   0, 203,   0, 217,   0,   0,   0, 165,   1,   1, 159,   1,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0, 207,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0,   1, 159,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0,   1, 200,  -1},
#C /* E17->E33, +27, gl=2, +23 */  {  0,   0, 203,   0, 217,   0,   0,   0, 165,   1,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0, 258,   0,   0,   1,   1, 171,   0,   0, 213,   1, 167,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0, 162,   0,   0, 173,   1,   1, 218,  -1},
#C /* E17->E33, -13, gl=2, +04 */  {  0,   0, 249,   1,   1,   0,   0,   1,   0,   1, 172,   1,   1,   0, 156,   0,   0,   1,   1,   0, 161,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0, 193,   1, 251,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1, 180,   0,   1,   0, 169,   1,   0,   0,   0,   1, 189,  -1},
#C /* E33->E17, +13, gl=0, +05 */  {  0, 154,   0,   0,   0, 196,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 180,   0,   1,   0,   1,   1, 276,   0,   0,   1, 172,   1,   1,   0, 198,   1, 222,   0,   0, 187,   0,   0,   1, 185,   0,   0,   0,   1, 178,   1,   0,   0,   1, 179,   1, 185,   1,   1, 159,   0,   0,   1, 179,   0, 172,   0,  -1},
#C /* E33->E17, +01 */  {  0, 154,   0,   0,   0, 196,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 180,   0,   1,   0,   1,   0, 275,   1,   1,   0, 186,   0,   1, 163,   0,   0,   1,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0, 189,   0,   0,   1,   0, 179,   0, 168,   0, 160,   1, 193,   0, 154,   0,   1, 166,   0, 155,   0,   0,   1,   1,   1, 167,  -1},
#C /* E33->E25, +13, gl=0, +05 */  {  0, 154,   0,   0,   0, 196,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 180,   0,   1,   0,   1,   0, 275,   1,   1,   0, 171,   0,   0,   1, 199,   0, 221,   1,   1, 188,   0,   0,   0, 184,   0,   0,   1,   0, 177,   0,   1,   1,   0, 178,   0, 184,   0,   0, 158,   1,   0,   1, 179,   1, 173,   0,  -1},
#C /* E33->E25, +01 */  {  0, 154,   0,   0,   0, 196,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 180,   0,   1,   0,   1,   1, 276,   0,   0,   1, 187,   0,   0, 162,   0,   1,   0,   1,   1,   1,   0,   1, 190,   1,   1,   0,   1, 180,   1, 169,   1, 161,   0, 192,   1, 155,   0,   0, 165,   1, 156,   1,   1,   0,   0,   0, 166,  -1},
#C /* E33->E33, -04, gl=0, +03 */  {  0, 258,   0,   0,   0, 196,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 167,   1,   0,   1,   0,   1,   0, 257,   1,   0,   0,   1,   0, 202,   1,   0,   0,   1, 154,   0,   1,   0, 239,   0, 168,   0,   0,   0,   0, 165,   0,   0,   0,   1,   0, 163,   0,   0,   0, 212,   0,   1, 179,   1,   0,  -1},
x = 4396, y = 4119, rule = LifeHistory
3511.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C82.C79.C79.C79.C79.C$3511.C79.C79.C79.C
79.C79.C79.C81.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C$3511.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C
79.C82.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C2$3507.3C3.3C71.3C3.3C71.3C3.3C71.3C3.3C
71.3C3.3C71.3C3.3C71.3C3.3C$4065.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C$3511.C79.C79.
C79.C79.C79.C79.C72.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C$3511.C79.C79.C79.C79.
C79.C79.C74.C79.C79.C79.C79.C$3511.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C6$3505.2C
78.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C78.2C$3504.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C77.C.C
77.C.C$3506.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C79.C13$4266.2A$4266.2A4$3631.2A$
3631.2A159.2A$3792.2A8$4026.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$4028.A79.A79.A79.A$
4027.A79.A79.A79.A6$3532.2A159.2A$3532.2A159.2A17$4320.3A$4322.A$
4321.A22$3425.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A$3424.A.A77.A.A77.A.A
77.A.A77.A.A77.A.A77.A.A$3426.A79.A79.A79.A79.A79.A79.A28$3946.3A77.
3A77.3A77.3A$3948.A79.A79.A79.A$3947.A79.A79.A79.A19$3454.2A158.2A78.
2A78.2A$3455.2A158.2A78.2A78.2A$3454.A159.A79.A79.A3$4240.3A$4242.A$
4241.A3$3364.3A157.3A$3366.A159.A316.A$3365.A159.A317.2A$3842.A.A46$
3866.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3868.A79.A79.A79.A$3867.A79.A79.A79.A19$3374.
3A157.3A77.3A77.3A$3376.A159.A79.A79.A$3375.A159.A79.A79.A3$4160.3A$
4162.A$4161.A3$3284.3A157.3A$3286.A159.A316.A$3285.A159.A317.2A$3762.
A.A38$3243.2A158.2A$3244.2A158.2A$3243.A159.A$3560.2A78.2A$3561.2A78.
2A$3560.A79.A3$3786.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3788.A79.A79.A79.A$3787.A79.A
79.A79.A3$3310.3A157.3A$3312.A159.A$3311.A159.A19$4080.3A$4082.A$
4081.A4$3683.A$3683.2A$3682.A.A15$3737.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3739.A79.A
79.A79.A$3738.A79.A79.A79.A21$3163.3A157.3A$3165.A159.A$3164.A159.A$
3480.3A77.3A468.3A$3482.A79.A470.A$3481.A79.A470.A8$3230.2A158.2A$
3231.2A158.2A$3230.A159.A25$3603.2A$3602.A.A$3604.A15$3657.3A77.3A77.
3A77.3A$3659.A79.A79.A79.A$3658.A79.A79.A79.A21$3083.3A157.3A$3085.A
159.A$3084.A159.A$3400.3A77.3A468.3A$3402.A79.A470.A$3401.A79.A470.A
8$3150.2A158.2A$3151.2A158.2A$3150.A159.A25$3523.2A$3522.A.A$3524.A
15$3577.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3579.A79.A79.A79.A$3578.A79.A79.A79.A21$
3003.3A157.3A$3005.A159.A$3004.A159.A$3320.3A77.3A468.3A$3322.A79.A
470.A$3321.A79.A470.A8$3070.3A157.3A$3072.A159.A$3071.A159.A25$3443.A
$3443.2A$3442.A.A2$3279.2A78.2A$3280.2A78.2A$3279.A79.A11$3497.3A77.
3A77.3A77.3A$3499.A79.A79.A79.A$3498.A79.A79.A79.A5$3019.2A158.2A$
3018.A.A157.A.A$3020.A159.A14$2923.3A157.3A$2925.A159.A$2924.A159.A$
3791.3A$3793.A$3792.A35$3363.2A$3362.A.A$3364.A2$3199.2A78.2A$3200.2A
78.2A$3199.A79.A11$3417.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3419.A79.A79.A79.A$3418.A
79.A79.A79.A5$2939.2A158.2A$2938.A.A157.A.A$2940.A159.A14$2843.3A157.
3A$2845.A159.A$2844.A159.A$3711.3A$3713.A$3712.A35$3283.A$3283.2A$
3282.A.A2$3119.2A78.3A$3120.2A79.A$3119.A80.A11$3337.2A78.2A78.2A78.
2A$3338.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A$3337.A79.A79.A79.A5$2859.A159.A$2859.2A158.
2A$2858.A.A157.A.A14$2763.3A157.3A$2765.A159.A$2764.A159.A$3080.A159.
2A389.2A$3080.2A157.A.A390.2A$3079.A.A159.A389.A24$2814.2A158.2A$
2815.2A158.2A$2814.A159.A13$3119.3A$3121.A$3120.A11$3257.3A77.3A77.3A
77.3A$3259.A79.A79.A79.A$3258.A79.A79.A79.A21$2683.2A158.3A$2684.2A
159.A$2683.A160.A$3000.A159.A390.3A$3000.2A158.2A391.A$2999.A.A157.A.
A390.A17$3212.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3214.A79.A79.A79.A$3213.A79.A79.A79.A
5$2734.3A157.3A$2736.A159.A$2735.A159.A13$3039.3A468.A$3041.A468.2A$
3040.A468.A.A34$2603.2A158.3A$2604.2A159.A$2603.A160.A$2920.2A158.A$
2919.A.A158.2A$2921.A157.A.A17$3132.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$3134.A79.A79.A
79.A$3133.A79.A79.A79.A5$2654.3A157.3A$2656.A159.A$2655.A159.A13$
2959.3A468.A$2961.A468.2A$2960.A468.A.A34$2523.2A158.3A$2524.2A159.A$
2523.A160.A$2840.2A158.2A$2839.A.A157.A.A$2841.A159.A17$3052.2A78.2A
78.2A78.2A$3053.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A$3052.A79.A79.A79.A5$2574.3A157.3A$
2576.A159.A$2575.A159.A11$2961.2A$2960.A.A$2879.2A81.A387.2A$2880.2A
467.A.A$2879.A471.A8$2629.A$2468.3A158.2A$2470.A157.A.A$2469.A26$
2760.2A$2759.A.A$2761.A7$2511.2A158.2A$2512.2A158.2A$2511.A159.A8$
2972.3A77.3A77.3A77.3A$2974.A79.A79.A79.A$2973.A79.A79.A79.A18$2881.
2A$2880.A.A$2799.3A80.A387.A$2801.A468.2A$2800.A468.A.A8$2549.2A$
2388.3A157.A.A$2390.A159.A$2389.A26$2680.2A$2679.A.A$2681.A7$2431.2A
158.2A$2432.2A158.2A$2431.A159.A8$2892.2A78.2A78.2A78.2A$2893.2A78.2A
78.2A78.2A$2892.A79.A79.A79.A18$2801.2A$2800.A.A$2719.3A80.A387.2A$
2721.A467.A.A$2720.A470.A8$2469.2A$2308.3A77.3A77.A.A77.3A$2310.A79.A
79.A79.A$2309.A79.A159.A26$2600.2A$2599.A.A$2601.A17$2812.2A78.3A77.
3A77.2A$2813.2A79.A79.A78.2A$2812.A80.A79.A78.A18$2721.A$2721.2A$
2639.3A78.A.A387.A$2641.A468.2A$2640.A468.A.A8$2389.A$2228.3A77.3A78.
2A77.3A$2230.A79.A77.A.A79.A$2229.A79.A159.A26$2520.A$2520.2A$2519.A.
A5$2824.A79.A$2743.3A78.2A78.2A77.3A$2745.A77.A.A77.A.A79.A$2190.2A
158.2A392.A239.A$2189.A.A159.2A$2191.A158.A13$2575.2A$2574.A.A$2576.A
12$2641.A$2641.2A$2640.A.A387.2A$3029.A.A$3031.A9$2228.3A157.3A$2230.
A159.A$2229.A159.A26$2440.2A$2439.A.A$2441.A5$2744.A79.A$2663.3A78.2A
78.2A77.3A$2665.A77.A.A77.A.A79.A$2110.2A158.2A392.A239.A$2109.A.A
159.2A$2111.A158.A13$2495.2A469.A$2494.A.A469.2A$2496.A468.A.A12$
2561.2A$2560.A.A$2562.A11$2148.3A157.3A$2150.A159.A$2149.A159.A25$
2521.A$2360.2A159.2A$2359.A.A158.A.A$2361.A5$2664.A79.A$2583.3A78.2A
78.2A77.3A$2585.A77.A.A77.A.A79.A$2030.2A158.2A392.A239.A$2029.A.A
159.2A$2031.A158.A13$2415.2A469.A$2414.A.A469.2A$2416.A468.A.A25$
2068.2A158.2A78.2A$2069.2A158.2A78.2A$2068.A159.A79.A25$2441.2A$2440.
A.A$2442.A6$2584.2A78.2A$2503.2A78.A.A77.A.A77.2A$2504.2A79.A79.A78.
2A$1950.A159.3A390.A239.A$1950.2A160.A$1949.A.A159.A12$2016.2A158.2A$
2015.A.A157.A.A157.A470.2A$2017.A159.A157.2A468.A.A$2334.A.A470.A21$
2072.A$1911.2A159.2A$1910.A.A158.A.A547.2A$1912.A547.3A159.2A$2228.3A
231.A158.A$2230.A230.A$2229.A307.3A157.A$2539.A157.2A$2538.A157.A.A
23$2361.2A$2360.A.A$2362.A23$1936.2A158.2A$1935.A.A157.A.A157.A470.2A
$1937.A159.A157.2A468.A.A$2254.A.A470.A21$1992.2A$1831.2A158.A.A$
1830.A.A160.A547.3A$1832.A547.2A161.A$2148.3A230.2A159.A$2150.A229.A$
2149.A307.3A157.2A$2459.A156.A.A$2458.A159.A12$2212.2A$2213.2A$2212.A
9$2281.2A$2280.A.A$2282.A23$1856.2A158.2A$1855.A.A157.A.A628.A$1857.A
159.A628.2A$2645.A.A21$1912.2A$1751.2A158.A.A$1750.A.A160.A547.3A$
1752.A547.2A161.A$2068.3A230.2A159.A$2070.A229.A$2069.A307.2A158.2A$
2378.2A156.A.A$2377.A160.A6$1818.A159.A$1818.2A158.2A$1817.A.A157.A.A
4$2132.3A$2134.A$2133.A9$2201.2A$2200.A.A$2202.A13$2337.A$2337.2A157.
3A$2336.A.A159.A$2497.A8$2566.2A$2565.A.A$2567.A21$1832.2A$1671.A159.
A.A$1671.2A160.A547.2A$1670.A.A547.3A159.2A$1988.3A231.A158.A$1990.A
230.A$1989.A8$1738.A159.2A$1738.2A157.A.A$1737.A.A159.A4$2052.3A$
2054.A$2053.A6$2515.3A$2517.A$2516.A$2121.2A$2120.A.A$2122.A13$2257.
2A$2256.A.A157.3A$2258.A159.A$2417.A2$2332.A$2171.2A159.2A$2170.A.A
158.A.A$2172.A14$1684.A159.2A$1684.2A157.A.A$1683.A.A159.A3$1999.2A$
2000.2A$1999.A4$2073.A$1752.A320.2A$1591.2A159.2A318.A.A$1590.A.A158.
A.A$1592.A$1908.2A$1909.2A$1908.A22$2435.2A$2436.2A$2435.A16$2177.2A$
2176.A.A157.2A$2178.A158.2A$2336.A2$2252.2A$2091.A159.A.A$2091.2A160.
A$2090.A.A14$1604.2A158.A$1603.A.A158.2A$1605.A157.A.A3$1919.2A$1920.
2A$1919.A4$1993.A$1672.2A319.2A$1511.A159.A.A318.A.A$1511.2A160.A$
1510.A.A$1828.3A$1830.A$1829.A20$2197.A$2197.2A$2035.3A158.A.A156.3A$
2037.A319.A$2036.A319.A4$1878.A$1878.2A$1877.A.A10$2097.A$2097.2A157.
3A$2096.A.A159.A$2257.A13$1930.2A$1931.2A$1930.A4$1524.2A158.A$1523.A
.A158.2A$1525.A157.A.A10$1592.2A$1431.2A158.A.A$1430.A.A160.A$1432.A$
1748.3A$1750.A$1749.A20$2117.A$2117.2A$1955.3A158.A.A156.3A$1957.A
319.A$1956.A319.A4$1798.2A$1797.A.A$1476.A322.A$1476.2A157.3A$1475.A.
A159.A$1636.A7$2017.2A$2016.A.A157.2A$2018.A158.2A$2176.A13$1850.3A$
1852.A$1851.A16$1512.A$1351.2A159.2A$1350.A.A158.A.A$1352.A$1668.3A$
1670.A$1669.A20$2037.A$2037.2A$1875.3A158.A.A156.2A$1877.A318.2A$
1876.A318.A4$1718.2A$1717.A.A$1396.2A321.A$1395.A.A157.2A$1397.A158.
2A$1555.A$1472.A$1311.2A159.2A$1310.A.A158.A.A$1312.A3$1937.2A$1936.A
.A157.2A$1938.A158.2A$2096.A13$1770.3A$1772.A$1771.A2$2157.2A$2156.A.
A$2158.A5$1990.2A$1829.A159.A.A$1829.2A160.A$1828.A.A8$1588.2A$1589.
2A$1588.A28$1638.2A$1637.A.A$1316.2A321.A$1315.A.A157.3A$1317.A159.A$
1476.A$1392.2A$1231.2A158.A.A$1230.A.A160.A$1232.A316.A$1549.2A$1548.
A.A$1857.2A$1856.A.A157.2A$1858.A158.2A$2016.A13$1690.3A$1692.A$1691.
A2$2077.2A$2076.A.A$2078.A5$1910.2A$1749.2A158.A.A$1748.A.A160.A$
1750.A38$1558.2A$1557.A.A$1236.2A321.A$1235.A.A157.3A$1237.A159.A$
1396.A$1312.A$1151.2A159.2A$1150.A.A158.A.A$1152.A316.2A$1468.A.A$
1470.A$1777.2A$1776.A.A157.3A$1778.A159.A$1937.A13$1610.3A$1612.A$
1611.A2$1997.A$1997.2A$1996.A.A5$1830.2A$1669.2A158.A.A$1668.A.A160.A
$1670.A38$1478.2A$1477.A.A$1156.2A321.A$1155.A.A157.2A$1157.A158.2A$
1315.A$1232.A$1071.2A159.2A$1070.A.A158.A.A$1072.A316.A$1389.2A$1388.
A.A$1697.2A$1696.A.A157.2A$1698.A158.2A$1856.A13$1530.2A$1531.2A$
1530.A2$1917.2A$1916.A.A$1918.A5$1750.2A$1589.A159.A.A$1589.2A160.A$
1116.2A470.A.A$1117.2A156.3A$1116.A160.A$1276.A14$1650.A$1650.2A157.
2A$1649.A.A156.A.A$1810.A11$1485.3A$1487.A$1486.A5$1398.2A$1397.A.A$
1399.A3$1704.2A$1152.A390.A159.A.A$991.2A159.2A389.2A160.A$990.A.A
158.A.A388.A.A$992.A316.2A$1308.A.A$1310.A$1857.2A$1858.2A$1857.A28$
1036.3A$1038.A156.2A$1037.A158.2A$1195.A14$1570.2A$1569.A.A157.A$
1571.A157.2A$1728.A.A11$1405.3A$1407.A$1406.A5$1318.2A$1317.A.A$1319.
A3$1624.2A$1072.2A389.2A158.A.A$911.A159.A.A388.A.A160.A$911.2A160.A
390.A$910.A.A316.2A$1228.A.A$1230.A$1777.3A$1779.A$1778.A27$1277.3A$
956.3A320.A$958.A156.2A161.A$957.A76.A81.2A$1034.2A79.A$872.3A158.A.A
$874.A$873.A6$1735.3A$1737.A$1736.A3$1490.2A$1489.A.A157.A$1491.A157.
2A$1648.A.A11$1325.2A$1326.2A$1325.A10$1544.2A$1383.2A158.A.A$1382.A.
A160.A$1384.A$1149.2A$1148.A.A$1150.A30$1197.3A$876.3A320.A$878.A156.
2A161.A$877.A76.2A80.2A$953.A.A79.A$792.3A160.A$794.A$793.A6$1655.3A$
1657.A$1656.A3$1410.A$1410.2A157.2A$1409.A.A156.A.A$1570.A11$1245.3A$
1247.A$1246.A10$1464.A$1303.2A159.2A$1302.A.A158.A.A$1304.A$1069.A$
1069.2A$1068.A.A24$1203.2A$1204.2A$1203.A4$1117.3A$796.2A321.A$797.2A
156.3A160.A$796.A77.2A81.A$873.A.A80.A$712.3A160.A$714.A$713.A6$1575.
3A$1577.A$1576.A3$1019.2A309.2A$1018.A.A308.A.A157.A$1020.A310.A157.
2A$1488.A.A22$1074.2A$1075.2A307.2A$1074.A148.A159.A.A$1223.2A160.A$
1222.A.A16$1285.2A$1286.2A156.2A$1285.A157.A.A$1445.A8$1123.2A$1124.
2A$1123.A5$716.3A$718.A156.2A$717.A76.A81.2A$794.2A79.A$632.3A158.A.A
$634.A$633.A$1340.A$1340.2A$1178.3A158.A.A$1180.A$1179.A$1495.3A$
1497.A$1496.A28$994.2A$995.2A$994.A18$1205.3A$1207.A156.A$1206.A157.
2A$1363.A.A8$1043.3A$1045.A$1044.A5$636.3A$638.A156.2A$637.A76.A81.2A
$714.2A79.A$552.3A158.A.A$554.A$553.A$1260.2A$1259.A.A$1098.2A161.A$
1099.2A$1098.A$1415.3A$1417.A$1416.A10$1163.3A$1165.A156.A$1164.A157.
2A$1321.A.A15$914.2A$915.2A$914.A2$670.2A$509.A159.A.A$509.2A160.A$
508.A.A4$1374.2A$1375.2A$1374.A18$963.3A$965.A$964.A5$556.3A$558.A
156.2A$557.A158.2A$715.A4$1180.A$1180.2A$1018.3A158.A.A$1020.A$1019.A
5$860.2A$859.A.A$861.A6$1083.3A$1085.A156.A$1084.A157.2A$1241.A.A15$
514.2A$513.A.A157.A$515.A157.2A$672.A.A8$1294.3A$1296.A$1295.A9$1043.
3A$1045.A156.A$1044.A157.2A$1201.A.A6$883.3A$885.A$884.A12$1100.A$
1100.2A$938.3A158.A.A$940.A$939.A31$434.2A$433.A.A157.A$435.A157.2A$
592.A.A8$1214.3A$1216.A$1215.A9$963.2A$964.2A156.2A$963.A157.A.A$
1123.A6$803.2A$804.2A$803.A10$391.2A$392.2A156.2A$391.A157.A.A468.2A$
551.A467.A.A$858.2A161.A$859.2A$858.A21$915.2A$916.2A156.2A$915.A157.
A.A$1075.A5$756.2A$757.2A$756.A10$975.3A$814.A162.A156.3A$814.2A160.A
159.A$813.A.A319.A30$311.2A$312.2A156.2A$311.A157.A.A$471.A24$835.3A$
837.A156.A$836.A157.2A$993.A.A17$895.3A$734.A162.A156.2A$734.2A160.A
158.2A$733.A.A318.A15$797.2A$796.A.A$798.A156.2A$956.2A$955.A24$849.
3A$688.A162.A$688.2A160.A$687.A.A32$974.3A$976.A$975.A15$717.2A$716.A
.A$718.A156.3A$877.A$876.A19$934.A$934.2A$933.A.A3$769.3A$608.A162.A$
608.2A160.A$607.A.A49$637.A$637.2A$636.A.A156.3A$797.A$796.A19$854.2A
$853.A.A$855.A3$689.3A$528.A162.A$528.2A160.A$527.A.A11$595.3A$597.A
156.2A$596.A158.2A$754.A22$650.2A$649.A.A$488.2A161.A$489.2A$488.A32$
774.2A$773.A.A$775.A17$515.3A$517.A156.2A$516.A158.2A$674.A22$570.A$
570.2A$408.3A158.A.A$410.A$409.A9$477.A$477.2A$476.A.A156.3A$637.A$
636.A19$694.2A$693.A.A$695.A42$490.2A$489.A.A$328.3A160.A$330.A$329.A
5$641.2A$640.A.A$642.A2$397.2A$396.A.A$398.A156.2A$556.2A$555.A63$
410.A$410.2A$248.2A159.A.A$249.2A$248.A5$561.2A$560.A.A$562.A2$317.2A
$316.A.A$318.A156.2A$476.2A$475.A28$365.2A$204.A161.2A$204.2A159.A$
203.A.A41$481.A$481.2A$480.A.A2$237.A$237.2A$236.A.A156.3A$397.A$396.
A28$285.2A$124.2A160.2A$123.A.A159.A$125.A6$436.2A$437.2A$436.A32$
242.2A$81.2A160.2A$80.A.A159.A$82.A2$157.A$157.2A$156.A.A156.3A$317.A
$316.A37$356.2A$357.2A$356.A32$162.3A$.2A161.A$A.A160.A$2.A2$77.A$77.
2A$76.A.A156.3A$237.A$236.A37$276.3A$35.2A241.A$36.2A156.2A81.A$35.A
157.A.A$195.A!

x = 7206, y = 7351, rule = LifeHistory
113.D$112.D$111.D$110.D$109.D$108.D$107.D$106.D$105.D$104.D$103.D$
102.D$101.D$100.D$99.D$98.D$66.A30.D6.A$66.A29.D6.A.A$66.A28.D7.2A$
94.D$62.3A3.3A22.D$92.D$66.A24.D$66.A23.D$66.A$88.2A$88.A$86.A.A$86.
2A7.2A4.2A$84.D10.2A4.2A8.A$83.D26.A.A$82.D28.2A$81.D25.2A$80.D26.2A
7.2A$79.D23.2A10.A.A3.A$78.D24.2A11.A3.A.A$77.D42.2A$76.D$75.D$74.D
33.2A$73.D34.2A$72.D$71.D$70.D$69.D$68.D$67.D$66.D8.2A$65.D9.2A$64.D
2$80.2A$80.2A3$88.2A$87.A.A$87.A$86.2A2$104.A$103.A.A$103.2A3$96.2A
37.2A$96.2A7.2A28.2A$105.A$103.A.A$103.2A$86.2A$86.2A20.2A24.2A$76.2A
30.2A24.2A$77.A$77.A.A$67.A10.2A$67.3A$70.A$69.2A3.2A64.2A$74.2A64.2A
2$39.A$38.A.A$38.2A$82.2A$73.A7.A.A63.2A$72.A.A6.A65.A.A$72.A.A5.2A
32.2A32.A$19.2A52.A39.A.A$19.2A93.A$23.2A$23.A$21.A.A$21.2A7.2A4.2A
59.2A$30.2A4.2A8.A31.2A17.2A39.2A$45.A.A30.2A9.2A46.A.A$46.2A42.A45.A
.A$2A40.2A43.3A47.A$2A40.2A7.2A34.A$38.2A10.A.A3.A$38.2A11.A3.A.A30.A
$55.2A30.A.A47.2A$87.A.A47.A.A$85.3A.2A47.A$43.2A39.A$43.2A40.3A.2A$
87.A.2A$135.2A$97.2A16.2A18.A.A$97.2A7.2A7.A.A18.A$83.A22.A9.A$82.A.A
19.A.A$10.2A70.A.A19.2A$10.2A71.A3$15.2A67.2A$15.2A67.2A37.2A$122.A.A
$123.A$23.2A$22.A.A$22.A77.A$21.2A76.A.A$90.2A7.A.A$39.A50.2A8.A$38.A
.A60.3A$38.2A63.A3$31.2A37.2A$31.2A7.2A28.2A$40.A$38.A.A$38.2A$21.2A
80.2A$21.2A20.2A24.2A32.2A$11.2A30.2A24.2A$12.A$12.A.A$2.A10.2A$2.3A$
5.A$4.2A3.2A64.2A$9.2A64.2A5$17.2A$8.A7.A.A63.2A$7.A.A6.A65.A.A$7.A.A
5.2A32.2A32.A$8.A39.A.A$49.A4$32.2A$13.2A17.2A39.2A$13.2A9.2A46.A.A$
25.A45.A.A$22.3A47.A$22.A2$23.A$22.A.A47.2A$22.A.A47.A.A$20.3A.2A47.A
$19.A$20.3A.2A$22.A.2A$70.2A$32.2A16.2A18.A.A$32.2A7.2A7.A.A18.A$18.A
22.A9.A$17.A.A19.A.A$17.A.A19.2A$18.A3$19.2A$19.2A37.2A$57.A.A$58.A3$
35.A$34.A.A$25.2A7.A.A$25.2A8.A$36.3A$38.A8$38.2A$38.2A7$65.A$64.2A$
64.A.A78$145.A$144.2AB$144.A.A$145.B48$195.2A$195.ABA$195.A.B78$275.
2A$274.2A.B$275.BA52$329.2A$329.ABA$329.A.B78$409.2A$408.2A.B$409.BA
78$489.2A$488.2A.B$489.BA78$569.2A$568.2A.B$569.BA39$610.2A$610.ABA$
610.A.B78$690.2A$690.ABA$690.A.B78$770.2A$770.ABA$770.A.B38$809.3A$
809.AB$810.AB78$889.3A$889.AB$890.AB77$970.A$969.2AB$969.A.A$970.B77$
1050.A$1049.2AB$1049.A.A$1050.B77$1130.A$1129.2AB$1129.A.A$1130.B77$
1210.A$1209.2AB$1209.A.A$1210.B77$1290.A$1289.2AB$1289.A.A$1290.B78$
1369.3A$1369.AB$1370.AB77$1450.A$1449.2AB$1449.A.A$1450.B77$1530.A$
1529.2AB$1529.A.A$1530.B49$1581.2A$1581.ABA$1581.A.B78$1661.2A$1660.
2A.B$1661.BA78$1741.2A$1740.2A.B$1741.BA78$1821.2A$1820.2A.B$1821.BA
78$1901.2A$1900.2A.B$1901.BA78$1981.2A$1981.ABA$1981.A.B78$2061.2A$
2060.2A.B$2061.BA78$2141.2A$2140.2A.B$2141.BA78$2221.2A$2220.2A.B$
2221.BA78$2301.2A$2301.ABA$2301.A.B38$2340.3A$2340.AB$2341.AB77$2421.
A$2420.2AB$2420.A.A$2421.B78$2500.3A$2500.AB$2501.AB77$2581.A$2580.2A
B$2580.A.A$2581.B77$2661.A$2660.2AB$2660.A.A$2661.B77$2741.A$2740.2AB
$2740.A.A$2741.B78$2820.3A$2820.AB$2821.AB47$2871.A$2870.2AB$2870.A.A
$2871.B221$3094.2A$3094.A.A$3094.A37$3132.3A$3132.A$3133.A78$3212.3A$
3212.A$3213.A78$3292.3A$3292.A$3293.A78$3372.3A$3372.A$3373.A47$3421.
3A$3421.A$3422.A78$3501.3A$3501.A$3502.A78$3581.3A$3581.A$3582.A78$
3661.3A$3661.A$3662.A78$3741.3A$3741.A$3742.A78$3822.2A$3821.2A$3823.
A78$3901.3A$3901.A$3902.A43$3946.3A$3946.A$3947.A78$4026.3A$4026.A$
4027.A78$4107.2A$4106.2A$4108.A78$4186.3A$4186.A$4187.A78$4267.2A$
4266.2A$4268.A78$4346.3A$4346.A$4347.A66$4416.A$4415.2A$4415.A.A78$
4496.A$4495.2A$4495.A.A78$4576.A$4575.2A$4575.A.A78$4655.2A$4655.A.A$
4655.A45$4701.3A$4701.A$4702.A78$4781.3A$4781.A$4782.A78$4862.2A$
4861.2A$4863.A38$4903.A$4902.2A$4902.A.A78$4982.2A$4982.A.A$4982.A78$
5062.2A$5062.A.A$5062.A78$5143.A$5142.2A$5142.A.A78$5222.2A$5222.A.A$
5222.A78$5302.2A$5302.A.A$5302.A78$5382.2A$5382.A.A$5382.A78$5462.2A$
5462.A.A$5462.A78$5542.2A$5542.A.A$5542.A45$5590.A$5589.2A$5589.A.A
78$5669.2A$5669.A.A$5669.A78$5749.2A$5749.A.A$5749.A78$5830.A$5829.2A
$5829.A.A78$5909.2A$5909.A.A$5909.A43$5954.2A$5953.2A$5955.A78$6033.
3A$6033.A$6034.A40$6075.3A$6075.A$6076.A78$6155.3A$6155.A$6156.A38$
6195.3A$6195.A$6196.A78$6276.2A$6275.2A$6277.A46$6324.2A$6323.2A$
6325.A78$6403.3A$6403.A$6404.A36$6442.2A$6442.A.A$6442.A78$6522.2A$
6522.A.A$6522.A78$6603.A$6602.2A$6602.A.A40$6643.3A$6643.A$6644.A78$
6723.3A$6723.A$6724.A36$6763.A$6762.2A$6762.A.A78$6842.2A$6842.A.A$
6842.A78$6922.2A$6922.A.A$6922.A78$7003.A$7002.2A$7002.A.A78$7083.A$
7082.2A$7082.A.A78$7163.A$7162.2A$7162.A.A40$7204.2A$7203.2A$7205.A!
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 14th, 2016, 5:26 pm

simeks wrote:
dvgrn wrote:so we'd have to have a universal subset of single-channel-153 with the active reaction all on one side show. I think there was some hope of that with single-channel-90, but maybe not for 153?

It is possible to find recipes that are pretty narrow on one side even at a minimum glider distance of 153:

Looks pretty good! But kind of expensive.

Unfortunately, having the elbow-op recipes miss objects that are already constructed, isn't quite good enough... you also have to not hit any of the intermediate targets created by the slow salvo recipes that placed those objects in those locations. Which can be quite tricky. For a relatively uncommon object like an eater, you often need 10hd or 20hd of clearance on the near side, to set up the reaction to place the still life.

We could re-do our slow-salvo search recipes, so that the construction happens from the sides instead of from the front. But that's not the way the current 540-glider slow salvo builds the 0hd Demonoid replicator unit.

I think the recipes you posted need 16-cell clearance from the construction lane. The 10hd and 0hd Demonoid recipes generally needed a much smaller clearance -- in many cases only a few cells on the construction side. But even medium-clearance recipes caused some significant headaches when it came to constructing the final diagonal strip of still lifes. So I think we're still going to need a medium-sized freeze-dried slow salvo on the far side of the construction lane -- or something equivalent.

A huge contribution that chris_c made to both the 10hd and 0hd Demonoid, was to figure out how to build some of those nearby still lifes, either directly with a junk-making elbow operation, or by moving the elbow past the construction area and then firing 180-degree slow gliders back to construct those still lifes. Presumably 0-degree gliders would also work, if enough different lanes can be found -- or even a combination of 0-degree and 180-degree gliders.

Heck, hit the construction area from three sides, if it helps, or even five sides -- could perfectly well add *WSSes into the mix. Slow Salvos Plus Plus! There's also the option of using sparks from elbow operations to modify already constructed objects in that danger-zone strip. That sounds like a bit of a maintenance nightmare, though, so maybe I shouldn't mention that.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby Scorbie » June 14th, 2016, 9:32 pm

Not really my field, but it seems that a possible compromise is to find a new component starting from the dependent block (that can accept the dependent syringe)with smaller repeat time and appropriate glider (or H) emission. With the new utilities coming up I think we can dig up unknown search space for that particular starting from the dependent block.



....Or maybe I am missing the whole 153 point by chris. Why are we not using the repeat time 90 component?
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
User avatar
Scorbie
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 14th, 2016, 9:56 pm

Scorbie wrote:....Or maybe I am missing the whole 153 point by chris. Why are we not using the repeat time 90 component?

We very likely will end up using the Lx200 component in one of these new single-channel projects. Among other things, there are several possible Orthogonoid blueprints all ready to be programmed.

The 153-tick investigation is interesting because it allows a single-channel Demonoid to be constructed, which is much simpler than the 0hd Demonoid, though it will probably have a higher population and a bigger bounding box.

It's possible to re-use exactly the same replicator unit as in the 0hd Demonoid -- including the self-destruct system -- but have only half as many of them: one replicator unit on each side instead of two. That means much less doubling back of glider streams, and so Golly will probably run a single-channel Demonoid much faster.

Re-using the self-destruct system is nice, just for practical reasons. There doesn't seem to be a flood of volunteers ready to rebuild things like that for each new piece of circuitry that comes along. An automated compiler for a self-destruct "meteor shower" seed is within reach, but will be very inefficient compared to a manual search, at least for the near future.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby Scorbie » June 15th, 2016, 12:50 am

Thanks for the reply. I think I got most of what you said. Just one confusing thing:
dvgrn wrote:The 153-tick investigation is interesting because it allows a single-channel Demonoid to be constructed, which is much simpler than the 0hd Demonoid, though it will probably have a higher population and a bigger bounding box.
This seems to imply that the original circuitry does not allow a single channel demonoid, but
dvgrn wrote:We very likely will end up using the Lx200 component in one of these new single-channel projects. Among other things, there are several possible Orthogonoid blueprints all ready to be programmed.
This says that a single-channel demonoid can (and is going to) be built by the original circuitry.

Where did I get wrong?

Edit: Like/+1/etc... to Kazyan for a good point :)
Last edited by Scorbie on June 15th, 2016, 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
User avatar
Scorbie
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: New construction arms

Postby Kazyan » June 15th, 2016, 3:52 am

Scorbie wrote:Thanks for the reply. I think I got most of what you said.


Off-topic, but I'd say this perfectly summarizes this forum's culture. :)
Tanner Jacobi
User avatar
Kazyan
 
Posts: 860
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 11:02 pm

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 15th, 2016, 9:54 am

Scorbie wrote:Thanks for the reply. I think I got most of what you said. Just one confusing thing:
dvgrn wrote:The 153-tick investigation is interesting because it allows a single-channel Demonoid to be constructed, which is much simpler than the 0hd Demonoid, though it will probably have a higher population and a bigger bounding box.
This seems to imply that the original circuitry does not allow a single channel demonoid, but
dvgrn wrote:We very likely will end up using the Lx200 component in one of these new single-channel projects. Among other things, there are several possible Orthogonoid blueprints all ready to be programmed.
This says that a single-channel demonoid can (and is going to) be built by the original circuitry.

Where did I get wrong?

Sorry, I should have thrown in some links. The original single-channel announcement mentions the possibility of building a Demonoid with half as many replicator units -- but the link there is to a blueprint with different circuitry, that recovers in 90 ticks.

The 10hd and 0hd Demonoids' circuitry takes 153 ticks to recover, because there's an R64 in it with the output Herschel's glider crossing the track. So if we want to re-use the 0hd circuitry in a single-channel Demonoid, we're stuck with developing the 153-tick library that simeks has been looking at recently.

Short summary: the original 0hd Demonoid circuitry does not allow a 90-tick single-channel Demonoid to be constructed -- but it does allow a single-channel Demonoid with a 153-tick toolkit, now that we know such a thing exists.

I posted some more ideas for minimal Demonoids here. This one is reasonable, except for a relatively large number of still lifes in the wide "danger zone" for single-channel construction:

x = 92, y = 128, rule = LifeHistory
86.4B$85.4B$84.4B$83.4B$82.4B$81.4B$80.4B$79.4B$78.4B$77.4B$76.4B$75.
4B$74.4B$73.4B$72.4B$71.4B$70.4B$69.4B$68.4B$67.4B6.2A3.2A$66.4B6.B2A
B.B2AB$65.4B4.B3.3B2.2B$64.4B3.4B.3B.3B$63.13B.7B5.2A$61.23B5.A$57.8B
.19B.BA.A$56.29B.B2A$54.33B$53.34B$52.35B$51.35B$51.33B$52.34B$51.30B
3.2A$50.B2A2B6.20B3.A$51.2A11.15B6.3A$68.11B8.A$67.13B$66.15B$65.16B$
64.17B$65.16B$66.13B$66.5B2A2B.4B$66.5B2A2B2.4B$66.10B2.4B$66.4B3D2B
4.4B$67.4BD3B5.4B$67.2B3D2B7.4B$67.7B8.4B$68.5B10.4B$68.5B11.4B$69.4B
12.4B$69.4B13.4B$68.5B14.4B$68.5B15.4B$69.6B14.3B$69.6B15.2B$69.6B16.
B$68.8B$67.8B$67.9B$67.9B$66.10B$66.3B2A5B$60.2A3.4B2A5B$61.A3.11B$
20.A40.A.A12B$20.3A33.2A4.2A2.8B$7.2A3.2A9.A17.A15.A9.7B4.2A$6.B2AB.B
2AB7.2A15.3A15.A.AB7.6B4.A$7.2B2.3B3.B4.4B12.A19.2AB.3B3.6B.BA.A$8.3B
.3B.4B4.3B11.2A20.14B.B2A$2A5.7B.13B11.B20.16B$.A5.23B9.3B19.14B$.A.A
B.19B.8B4.6B16.16B$2.2AB.29B2.10B11.18B$4.44B3.2B2.20B$4.37B2A15BD15B
$4.37B2A15BDBD4B.7B$5.53B3D4B2.6B$7.53BD4B3.6B$5.59B6.4B$5.2A3.25B4.
13B.4B12.B2A2B$6.A3.20B4.B4.7B.B5.3B14.2A.B2A$3.3A6.15B7.2A17.2B18.BA
.A$3.A8.11B12.A40.A$11.13B8.3A41.2A$10.15B7.A$10.16B$10.17B$10.16B$
12.13B$12.3B.2B2A5B$10.4B2.2B2A3B$10.2A3.8B$11.A4.2B3D3B$8.3A5.3BD4B$
8.A8.2B3D2B$17.7B$9.A7.6B$8.A.A6.6B$8.A.A6.5B$6.3A.2A4.6B$5.A4.B6.6B$
6.3AB2AB3.7B$8.A.2AB.8B$12.10B$12.6B2A3B5.2A$12.6B2A2B5.A.A$12.10B5.A
$11.11B2.BA.A$11.12B.B2A$10.15B$9.16B$6.2B.16B$5.2A18B$5.2AB.17B$6.B.
4B.8B2.4B$13.7B4.4B$14.6B5.4B$16.4B6.4B$18.3BA5.2B2C$19.BA.A5.BCBC$
20.A.A6.CB$21.A$22.3A$24.A!

I'm suddenly much more tempted by this design:

x = 167, y = 163, rule = LifeHistory
79.2E$79.2E10$152.D$152.3D$155.D$154.2D10$142.2D$93.2D3.2D27.D15.D$
93.2D3.2D25.3D15.D.D$124.D19.2D$124.2D$86.2D$87.D$87.D.D75.2D$88.2D
75.2D2$127.2D$127.2D4$91.2D$92.D$89.3D28.2D$89.D31.D$118.3D$118.D$
153.2D$154.D$151.3D$151.D$104.2D$104.2D$96.2D$97.D$94.3D$94.D2$95.D$
94.D.D$94.D.D$92.3D.2D$91.D$92.3D.2D$94.D.2D2$104.2D8.2D$104.2D7.D.D$
113.D$111.D.D$111.2D4$91.2D$91.2D5$107.D$2E104.D.D$2E104.D.D$107.D$
108.3D$110.D6$70.4B$71.2BAB$72.B3A$18.B54.3BA$18.2B54.B2AB$18.3B54.4B
$18.4B54.4B$19.4B53.4B$20.4B52.5B$21.4B50.9B$22.4B49.9B$23.4B48.9B$
24.4B46.10B$25.4B44.12B$26.4B33.2A8.13B$14.2A3.2A6.4B17.A15.A9.11B$
13.B2AB.B2AB6.4B14.3A15.A.AB4.12B$14.2B2.3B3.B4.4B12.A19.2AB.15B$15.
3B.3B.4B3.4B11.2A20.17B$7.2A5.7B.13B11.B20.17B$8.A5.23B9.3B19.17B.B$
8.A.AB.19B.8B4.6B16.19B2A$9.2AB.29B2.10B11.19B.B2A$11.44B3.2B2.20B4.B
$11.37B2A15BD16B$11.37B2A15BDBD4B.9B$12.53B3D4B2.7B$14.53BD4B2.7B$12.
59B4.6B$12.2A3.25B4.13B.4B10.7B$13.A3.20B4.B4.7B.B5.3B12.6B$10.3A6.
15B7.2A32.7B$10.A8.11B12.A33.5B$18.13B8.3A34.6B$17.15B7.A34.9B$17.16B
41.2A.7B$17.17B41.A5.4B$17.16B39.3A7.4B$19.13B40.A10.4B$19.3B.2B2A5B
52.4B$17.4B2.2B2A3B55.4B$17.2A3.8B56.4B$18.A4.2B3D3B56.4B$15.3A5.3BD
4B57.4B$15.A8.2B3D2B58.4B$24.7B59.4B$16.A7.6B61.4B$15.A.A6.6B62.3BD$
15.A.A6.5B64.3BD$13.3A.2A4.6B65.3D$12.A4.B6.6B$13.3AB2AB3.7B$15.A.2AB
.8B$19.10B$19.6B2A3B5.2A$19.6B2A2B5.A.A$19.10B5.A$18.11B2.BA.A$18.12B
.B2A$17.15B$16.16B$13.2B.16B$12.2A18B$12.2AB.17B$13.B.4B.8B2.4B$20.7B
4.4B$21.6B5.4B$23.4B6.4B$25.3BA5.2B2D$26.BA.A5.BDBD$27.A.A6.DB$28.A$
29.3A$31.A!

If we're going to be stuck with building a freeze-dried slow salvo anyway, then this orientation of construction arm is really just as good as the other orientation... and this is a really cheap design. The slow salvo will only have to construct 19 still lifes, not counting any self-destruct circuitry.

For any of these blueprints with 90-tick recovery time, though, we have to start totally from scratch, in terms of designing the self-destruct system and finding an appropriate slow-salvo recipe to build the circuitry. I think somebody else besides me should do that, this time around, though I'm happy to serve as a consultant. Anyone up for a fairly big challenge -- or at least an unreasonably tedious series of technical puzzles?

The 153-tick single-channel toolkit opens up the possibility of recycling all the work that has already been done for the 0hd Demonoid, and probably producing a new single-channel Demonoid with only one replicator unit per side, somewhat faster.

Hope that makes things somewhat clearer. If not, please ask more questions!
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby Scorbie » June 15th, 2016, 11:04 am

Crystal clear now. Thanks!

The tape could be G4 with repeat time 118. Alas, this is more expensive than your last design. Just suggesting as one possibility.
x = 103, y = 176, rule = LifeHistory
80.A$79.A2B$78.B3A$77.4B$76.4B$75.4B$74.4B$73.4B$72.4B$71.4B$70.4B$
69.4B$68.4B$67.4B$66.4B$65.4B$60.ABA.4B$59.B2A5B$58.3BA4B$57.8B$56.8B
$55.8B$54.8B$53.8B$52.8B$51.8B$50.8B$49.8B$48.8B$47.8B$46.4BA3B39.A$
45.5BABA40.3A$44.6B2A27.A16.A$43.8B28.3A13.2A$23.2A17.8B32.A12.4B$24.
A7.2A7.8B20.2A10.2A8.2A4.B2A$24.A.AB3.B2AB5.8B6.A15.A10.5B4.B2AB2.BA.
A$25.2AB4.3B4.8B5.3A15.A.AB9.4B3.B.B3.B2A$27.4B2.B4.8B5.A19.2AB.3B4.
13B.3B$27.9B.8B6.2A20.7B.9BD7B$24.3B.16B8.B20.17B2D6B$24.19B9.3B19.
17B2D6B$17.B3.21B9.6B16.18BD7B$16.2AB.22B.B3.B2.10B11.19BD2BD5B$16.2A
43B3.2B2.19B.B.3B3D3B$17.B.13BA17BD3B2A15BD15B2.5BD4B.BA$20.7B2CB2A
18B2D2B2A15BDBD4B.7B3.11BA.A$21.B.4B2C2B2A5B2D11B2D18B3D4B2.7B3.6B.B.
2BA$25.14B2D10BD21BD4B4.2B2A3.7B4.B$24.A3.11BD10BD26B3.4B2A4.7B$22.3A
5.12B2.3B5.13B.4B10.2A8.7B$21.A8.13B3.3B3.7B.B5.3B12.A8.8B$21.2A9.5B.
4B5.2A15.4B10.3A8.7B.B2A$32.B2A2B4.2B4.A30.A11.6B.BA.A$33.2A5.BA2B4.
3A39.6B4.A$40.A.A7.A38.2B2D2BD4.2A$41.A42.2A2.4B3DB$83.A.A7BD4B$83.A
3.11B$82.2A3.4B2A5B$88.3B2A5B$88.10B$89.9B$89.9B$89.8B$90.8B4.B$91.6B
4.2B$91.6B3.3B$91.6B2.4B$90.7B.5B$90.6B.6B$91.12B$91.12B$90.12B$90.
11B$81.2A7.10B$82.A6.2B3D5B$82.A.AB3.4BD4B$83.2AB2.4B3D2B$85.11B$85.
11B$85.11B$64.A19.11B$63.A2B19.10B$62.B3A19.10B$61.4B21.11B$60.4B21.
12B$59.4B21.14B.B$58.4B21.16B2A$57.4B22.16B2A$56.4B23.17B$55.4B22.2AB
.9B2.4B$54.4B22.A.AB.6B$53.4B23.A5.4B$52.4B23.2A3.5B$51.4B29.2A$50.4B
31.A$49.4B29.3A$44.ABA.4B30.A$43.B2A5B$42.3BA4B$41.8B$40.8B$39.8B$38.
8B$37.8B$36.8B$35.8B$34.8B$33.8B$32.8B$31.8B$30.4BA3B33.A$29.5BABA34.
3A$28.6B2A38.A23.2A$27.8B38.2A23.A$7.2A17.8B39.4B18.BA.A$8.A7.2A7.8B
21.A20.3B14.2A.B2A$8.A.AB3.B2AB5.8B6.A15.3A12.B.3B.4B12.B2A2B$9.2AB4.
3B4.8B5.3A18.A10.18B6.4B$11.4B2.B4.8B5.A20.2A3.B5.2B2A11BD4B3.6B$11.
9B.8B6.2A19.8B3.2B2A9B3D4B2.6B$8.3B.16B8.B21.8B.13BDBD4B.7B$8.19B9.3B
19.22BD15B$.B3.21B9.6B16.15B.2B2.20B$2AB.22B.B3.B2.10B11.17B8.18B$2A
43B3.2B2.19B11.16B$.B.13BA17BD3B2A15BD15B12.14B$4.7B2CB2A18B2D2B2A15B
DBD4B.7B12.16B$5.B.4B2C2B2A5B2D11B2D18B3D13B11.14B.B2A$9.14B2D10BD21B
D14B8.2AB.3B3.6B.BA.A$8.A3.11BD10BD26B2.8B8.A.AB7.6B4.A$6.3A5.12B2.3B
5.13B.4B11.6B8.A9.2B2D2BD4.2A$5.A8.13B3.3B3.7B.B4.4B12.5B8.2A4.2A2.4B
3DB$5.2A9.5B.4B5.2A15.4B14.4B13.A.A7BD4B$16.B2A2B4.2B4.A15.4B15.3B14.
A3.11B$17.2A5.BA2B4.3A11.4B17.4B11.2A3.4B2A5B$24.A.A7.A10.4B20.2A17.
3B2A5B$25.A18.4B21.A18.10B$43.4B23.3A16.9B$42.4B26.A16.9B$41.4B44.8B$
40.4B46.8B4.B$39.4B48.6B4.2B$38.4B49.6B3.3B$37.4B50.6B2.4B$36.4B50.7B
.5B$35.4B51.6B.6B$34.4B53.12B$91.12B$90.12B$90.11B$81.2A7.10B$82.A6.
2B3D5B$82.A.AB3.4BD4B$83.2AB2.4B3D2B$85.11B$85.11B$85.11B$84.11B$85.
10B$85.10B$86.11B$85.12B$84.14B.B$83.16B2A$83.16B2A$83.17B$81.2AB.9B
2.4B$80.A.AB.6B$80.A5.4B$79.2A3.5B$84.2A$85.A$82.3A$82.A!
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
User avatar
Scorbie
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: New construction arms

Postby calcyman » June 16th, 2016, 9:51 am

Scorbie wrote:G4 with repeat time 118.


Wonderful! Using AphbzTa's Herschel splitter, we can do absolutely everything (with G4 instead of gliders) at repeat time 118 using only Spartan components.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!
User avatar
calcyman
 
Posts: 2089
Joined: June 1st, 2009, 4:32 pm

Re: New construction arms

Postby Scorbie » June 16th, 2016, 11:01 am

calcyman wrote:
Scorbie wrote:G4 with repeat time 118.


Wonderful! Using AphbzTa's Herschel splitter, we can do absolutely everything (with G4 instead of gliders) at repeat time 118 using only Spartan components.
Yeah. Great improvement of pure spartan circuitry I think. If you allow eater2 (or maybe just one) then we could do anything with gliders at a repeat time of 90.
Best wishes to you, Scorbie
User avatar
Scorbie
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: December 7th, 2013, 1:05 am

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 16th, 2016, 2:37 pm

Scorbie wrote:The tape could be G4 with repeat time 118. Alas, this is more expensive than your last design...

It's not necessarily more expensive from the point of view of constructing the still lifes, because we have to build something like a six-object seed to construct the eater2. So really we need 18+6 = 24 still lifes in all -- exactly the same as this new G4 version.

The population of a G4-based Demonoid would be about twice as big, of course, because of all the doubled gliders. And according to simeks' analysis of the F166's 115-tick repeat time, construction recipes will be significantly bigger -- multiply the number of recipe signals (gliders or glider pairs) by about 4/3, and then add just a little bit more because the average distance between signals will probably increase slightly as well.

So probably it is worth building the eater2 in this case, to be able to use the 90-tick single-channel library. But sometime soon it will be good to be able to use F166 conduits and G4 transceivers... and this handy-dandy 15sL Spartan signal splitter, for whenever you need an extra output glider on an adjustable lane:

EDIT: Sample pattern was broken, now fixed...
x = 78, y = 67, rule = LifeHistory
60.5BA2B$59.4B2A2B$58.6B2A$57.8B$56.8B$55.8B$54.8B$53.8B$52.8B$51.8B$
50.8B$49.8B$48.8B$47.8B$46.8B$45.A7B$44.A7B$43.B3A4B$42.8B$41.8B$40.
8B$39.8B$38.8B$37.8B$36.8B$35.8B$34.8B$33.8B$32.8B$31.8B$30.4BABAB$
29.5B2AB$28.7BA$27.8B38.A$26.8B37.3A$16.2A7.8B21.A15.A$15.B2AB5.8B6.A
15.3A13.2A4.2A$16.3B4.8B5.3A18.A9.5B4.A$12.3B2.B4.8B5.A20.2A3.B4.4B3.
BA.A$11.9B.8B6.2A19.8B.7B.B2A$8.3B.16B8.B21.16B$8.19B9.3B19.16B$.B3.
21B9.6B16.17B$2AB.22B.B3.B2.10B11.18B$2A43B3.2B2.20B$.B.12BA18BD3B2A
15BD15B$4.7B2C2BABA16B2D2B2A15BDBD13B$5.B.4B2C2B2A5B2D11B2D18B3D13B$
9.14B2D10BD21BD12B$8.A3.11BD10BD26B3.6B$6.3A5.12B2.3B5.13B.8B6.7B$5.A
8.13B3.3B3.7B.B4.8B9.5B$5.2A9.5B.4B5.2A15.8B11.4B$16.B2A2B4.2B4.A15.
8B11.B2A2B$17.2A5.BA2B4.3A11.8B13.2A$24.A.A7.A10.8B$25.A18.8B$43.8B$
42.8B$41.8B$40.8B$39.8B$38.8B$37.8B$36.8B$35.8B$34.8B!


Maybe there's a competitive 90-degree G4 turn circuit, that might come in handy in the quadratic replicator...?

EDIT 2: The safe repeat rate is 118 only if you never change the chirality. Otherwise the circuit is only safe at 126 ticks and above. It's still true that Spartan circuits can do "absolutely everything" at 118 ticks, but some signals are going to be pretty awkwardnessful to catch.

I do think we can afford to add dead spark coils to the list of "Spartanish" easy-to-construct components, just because the old G5 Herschel transceiver's dead spark coil is a reasonable distance from any other catalysts. On the other hand, it has an even worse chirality problem than the G4 transceiver -- you can't even reverse the chirality at p126 (or at all).

x = 145, y = 188, rule = LifeHistory
129.5BA2B$128.4B2A2B$127.6B2A$126.8B$125.8B$124.8B$123.8B$122.8B$121.
8B$120.8B$119.8B$118.8B$117.8B$116.8B$115.8B$114.A7B$113.A7B$112.B3A
4B$111.8B$110.8B$109.8B$108.8B$107.8B$106.8B$105.8B$104.8B$103.8B$
102.8B$101.8B$100.8B$99.8B$98.8B$97.4BABAB$96.5B2AB$95.7BA$94.8B38.A$
74.2A17.8B37.3A$75.A7.2A7.8B21.A15.A$75.A.AB3.B2AB5.8B6.A15.3A13.2A4.
2A$76.2AB4.3B4.8B5.3A18.A9.5B4.A$78.3B3.B4.8B5.A20.2A3.B4.4B3.BA.A$
78.3B.5B.8B6.2A19.8B.7B.B2A$75.3B.2B.13B8.B21.16B$75.6B.12B9.3B19.16B
$68.B3.21B9.6B16.17B$67.2AB.22B.B3.B2.10B11.18B$67.2A43B3.2B2.20B$68.
B.12BA18BD3B2A15BD15B$71.7B2C2BABA16B2D2B2A15BDBD13B$72.B.4B2C2B2A5B
2D11B2D18B3D13B$76.14B2D10BD21BD12B$75.A3.11BD10BD26B3.6B$73.3A5.12B
2.3B5.13B.8B6.7B$72.A8.13B3.3B3.7B.B4.8B9.5B$72.2A9.5B.4B5.2A15.8B11.
4B$83.B2A2B4.2B4.A15.8B11.B2A2B$84.2A5.BA2B4.3A11.8B13.2A$91.A.A7.A
10.8B$92.A18.8B$110.8B$109.8B$108.8B$107.8B$63.2A41.8B$62.A.A40.8B$
50.2A3.2A5.A41.8B$50.A.A.A.AB3.2A40.8B$52.A.A.3B.2B40.8B$50.A.A.A.A6B
38.8B$50.2A3.2A6B37.8B$56.9B34.8B$55.10B33.8B$55.11B31.8B$54.13B29.8B
$54.12B29.8B$54.12B28.8B$54.B3D8B27.8B$54.2BD9B26.8B$54.2B3D5B.B2A23.
8B$54.9B2.BA.A21.8B$53.9B6.A20.8B$52.9B7.2A18.8B$51.9B27.8B$50.9B27.
8B$49.4B.6B25.8B$48.4B.7B24.8B$47.4B.7B24.8B$46.4B.8B23.8B$45.4B.9B
22.8B$44.4B.11B20.8B$43.4B.4B.8B18.8B$42.4B.4B.9B17.8B$41.4B.4B2.9B
16.8B$40.4B.4B3.10B14.8B$39.4B.4B4.5B2A3B13.8B$38.4B.4B5.5B2A4B3.2A6.
8B$37.4B.4B6.11B3.A6.8B$36.4B.4B7.4BD7BA.A5.8B$35.4B.4B10.B3D4B2.2A5.
8B$34.4B.4B5.2A4.D2B2D2B9.8B$33.4B.4B7.A4.6B9.8B$32.4B.4B8.A.AB.6B8.
8B$31.4B.4B10.2AB.7B6.8B$30.4B.4B13.8B6.8B$29.4B.4B15.7B5.8B$28.4B.4B
16.7B4.8B$27.4B.4B13.B4.7B2.8B$16.2B.B6.4B.4B13.A2B.B.6B2.8B$16.5B4.
4B.4B13.A.A19B$14.7B3.4B.4B15.AB.3BAC12B$11.B.9B.4B.4B19.3B2CD10B$10.
2AB.7B.4B.4B20.5BD9B$10.2A13B.4B22.13B$6.A4.2B.10B.4B21.3B2A9B$6.3A5.
9B.4B22.3B2A10B$9.A3.15B21.2A14B.2B$8.2A.10BA6B.2B18.2A16B2A$8.12BABA
7B2A18.15B.B2A$10.10BABA5B.B2A20.13B2.B$9.12BA7B.B21.14B$8.B.18B26.
12B$7.20B27.2B2C8B$7.20B28.B2C5B.4B$8.18B29.9B2.2A$8.10B2A5B30.9B2.A$
8.10B2A5B28.2A.8B3.3A$4.2AB2.15B29.A2.6B7.A$.2B.2AB.15B28.A.A3.5B$2A
20B29.2A3.6B$2A20B35.4B$.2B.17B37.2B$5.15B39.2B$5.14B39.B2AB$6.13B40.
2A$8.10B$8.10B$9.8B$9.8B$10.10B$10.8BD2B$10.6B3D3B$11.6BD3B$11.10B$
12.3B.7B.2A$13.10BA.A$13.9B.BA$14.8B$14.8B$16.7B$16.6B$16.6B$16.D2B2D
2B$16.B3D4B2.2A.A$14.4BD7BA.2A$14.11B$14.5B2A4B$14.5B2A3B$14.10B$14.
9B$14.9B$15.8B$14.8B$15.6B$15.6B$15.6B$10.4B.7B$11.4B.6B$12.9B$13.9B$
14.9B7.2A$15.9B6.A$16.9B2.BA.A$16.2B3D5B.B2A$16.2BD9B$16.B3D8B$16.12B
$16.12B$16.13B$17.11B$17.10B$18.9B$12.2A3.2A6B$12.A.A.A.A6B$14.A.A.3B
.2B$12.A.A.A.AB3.2A$12.2A3.2A5.A$24.A.A$25.2A!

... When you look hard at the layout problems involved with making practical use of the G4 and AbhpzTa's Herschel splitter, it starts getting very tempting again to just build an eater2 now and again, and avoid all the chirality issues.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 17th, 2016, 10:17 am

dvgrn wrote:If we're going to be stuck with building a freeze-dried slow salvo anyway, then this orientation of construction arm is really just as good as the other orientation... and this is a really cheap design. The slow salvo will only have to construct 19 still lifes, not counting any self-destruct circuitry.

-- Hey, wait a minute! We don't _have_ to build a freeze-dried slow salvo -- or at least, it doesn't all have to be built at once.

I doubt there's much of any difference between the cost of building a freeze-dried salvo that constructs the entire 19sL single-channel replicator unit, and the cost of shooting gliders one at a time around a second "slow elbow" (the yellow block at the top of the diagram below.)

x = 238, y = 233, rule = LifeHistory
222.D$222.3D$225.D$224.2D6$131.2E$131.2E4$213.2D$164.2D3.2D27.D15.D$
164.2D3.2D25.3D15.D.D$195.D19.2D$195.2D$157.2D$158.D$158.D.D75.2D$
159.2D75.2D2$198.2D$198.2D4$162.2D$163.D$160.3D28.2D$160.D31.D$189.3D
$189.D$224.2D$225.D$222.3D$222.D$175.2D$175.2D$167.2D$168.D$165.3D$
165.D2$166.D$165.D.D$165.D.D$90.3D70.3D.2D$92.D69.D$91.D71.3D.2D$165.
D.2D2$86.D88.2D8.2D$175.2D7.D.D$184.D$83.D98.D.D$182.2D2$80.D2$162.2D
$77.D84.2D5$93.4D81.D$71.2E4.D2.D2.D2.D5.D3.D80.D.D11.2E$71.2E23.D80.
D.D11.2E$92.D2.D82.D$179.3D$181.D2$71.D3$71.D$141.4B$142.2BAB$71.D71.
B3A$89.B54.3BA$89.2B54.B2AB$71.D17.3B54.4B$89.4B54.4B$90.4B53.4B$91.
4B52.5B$92.4B50.9B$93.4B49.9B$69.D.D22.4B48.9B$72.D22.4B46.10B$72.D
23.4B44.12B$69.D2.D24.4B33.2A8.13B$70.3D12.2A3.2A6.4B17.A15.A9.11B$
84.B2AB.B2AB6.4B14.3A15.A.AB4.12B$85.2B2.3B3.B4.4B12.A19.2AB.15B$86.
3B.3B.4B3.4B11.2A20.17B$78.2A5.7B.13B11.B20.17B$79.A5.23B9.3B19.17B.B
$79.A.AB.19B.8B4.6B16.19B2A$80.2AB.29B2.10B11.19B.B2A$82.44B3.2B2.20B
4.B$82.37B2A15BD16B$82.37B2A15BDBD4B.9B$83.53B3D4B2.7B$85.53BD4B2.7B$
83.59B4.6B$83.2A3.25B4.13B.4B10.7B$84.A3.20B4.B4.7B.B5.3B12.6B$81.3A
6.15B7.2A32.7B$81.A8.11B12.A33.5B$89.13B8.3A34.6B$88.15B7.A34.9B$88.
16B41.2A.7B$88.17B41.A5.4B$88.16B39.3A7.4B$90.13B40.A10.4B$90.3B.2B2A
5B52.4B$88.4B2.2B2A3B55.4B$88.2A3.8B56.4B$89.A4.2B3D3B56.4B$86.3A5.3B
D4B57.4B$86.A8.2B3D2B58.4B$95.7B59.4B$87.A7.6B61.4B$86.A.A6.6B62.3BD$
86.A.A6.5B64.3BD$84.3A.2A4.6B65.3D$83.A4.B6.6B$84.3AB2AB3.7B$86.A.2AB
.8B$90.10B$90.6B2A3B5.2A$90.6B2A2B5.A.A$90.10B5.A$89.11B2.BA.A$89.12B
.B2A$88.15B$87.16B$84.2B.16B$83.2A18B$83.2AB.17B$84.B.4B.8B2.4B$91.7B
4.4B$92.6B5.4B$94.4B6.4B$96.3BA5.2B2D$97.BA.A5.BDBD$98.A.A6.DB$99.A$
100.3A$102.A7$65.B$65.3B$68.B$67.2B11$56.2B$7.2B3.2B27.B15.B$7.2B3.2B
25.3B15.B.B$38.B19.2B$38.2B$2B$.B$.B.B75.2B$2.2B75.2B2$41.2B$41.2B4$
5.2B$6.B$3.3B28.2B$3.B31.B$32.3B$32.B$67.2B$68.B$65.3B$65.B$18.2B$18.
2B$10.2B$11.B$8.3B$8.B2$9.B$8.B.B$8.B.B$6.3B.2B$5.B$6.3B.2B$8.B.2B2$
18.2B8.2B$18.2B7.B.B$27.B$25.B.B$25.2B4$5.2B$5.2B5$21.B$20.B.B$20.B.B
$21.B$22.3B$24.B!

But this blueprint allows for a lot more possibilities than that...

  • Cleanup of old replicator units can be done with *WSSes, so we definitely don't need to build any more than 19 still lifes.
  • Construction could be done directly from the white single-channel elbow with slow *WSSes -- no exponential increase in cost due to running a slow elbow (but it will finally be necessary to build a full library of slow *WSS recipes).
  • Construction could be done with a combination of slow gliders (from the yellow slow-elbow), and slow *WSSes (directly from the white single-channel elbow). Having so many options might make construction recipes somewhat more efficient.
  • Construction could be done with small numbers of synchronized gliders from the yellow slow-elbow location -- build a small glider-salvo seed, and then trigger it, whenever that kind of synchronization would be worth the cost.
  • Construction could be done with *WSSes from the white single-channel elbow, paired with synchronized gliders from the yellow slow-elbow.
Setting up each G+*WSS collision would be a bit of a pain, but it looks doable. Build a one-time glider reflector at the yellow elbow first, then a *WSS seed at the white elbow, with a second one-time glider reflector in front of it. Trigger the two one-time reflectors with a single-channel glider, then wait around and trigger the *WSS seed at the correct time.

The construction recipes would probably be about as efficient as the 90-degree glider pair collisions in the original Gemini. Of course they'd be much less efficient to encode on a single-channel tape... but, you know, the original Gemini had to encode a lot more than 19 still lifes!
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 22nd, 2016, 2:16 pm

dvgrn wrote:The problem with single-channel-153 is that the elbow-op reactions are likely to take up at least a little more space than the 0hd glider-pair ops.

With some simple censusing code I've written recently, it's much easier to search for an object that shows up in the right place, but with a lot of junk around it. Then you can run a new search and try to clean up the junk without destroying the wanted object.

Using this method, I found a way to build the difficult eater in the NW31 of the 0hd demonoid, using single-lane construction with a minimum distance of 153.

For these recipes to work I needed to move two of the self-destruct blocks in the design (red -> white in the pattern):

#C /* E17->E00, -32768 */  {  0,   0, 203,   1, 195,   1,   1,   1, 195,   1, 165,   0, 233,   1,   0, 236,  -1},
#C /* E00->E17, +42 */  {  0,   1, 154,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   0,   1, 197,   0, 186,   1,   1,   0, 179,   0,   1, 180,   1, 224,   1,   0,   1, 193,   0,   0, 196,   0, 175,   0,   1, 194,   0,   0,   1,  -1},
x = 2626, y = 2608, rule = LifeHistory
2586.2A$2586.2A5$2595.2A$2595.2A9$2559.A$2559.A$2559.A13.A$2572.A.A$
2572.A.A$2368.C204.A2.D$2368.C207.D$2368.C199.2A6.D2A$2567.A2.A5.A2.A
$2364.3C3.3C177.A17.2A2.3D2.AC2D$2549.A.A$2368.C180.A.A24.D$2368.C
181.A25.D$2368.C207.D10.3A3$2571.2A$2571.2A2$2362.2A$2361.A.A$2363.A$
2557.2A$2556.A2.A6.2A$2557.2A7.2A4$2565.3A5$2563.2A$2563.2A5$2372.A
207.A$2371.A.A175.2A28.A.A$2371.2A175.A.A28.2A$2550.A6.2A$2557.2A3$
2352.2D206.2D$2352.2D206.2D$2356.2D206.2C$2356.D8.2C197.C8.2C$2354.D.
D8.2C195.C.C8.2C$2354.2D7.2D4.2A191.2C7.2D4.2A$2363.2D4.2A8.A191.2D4.
2A8.A$2378.A.A205.A.A$2379.2A206.2A$2333.2A40.2A164.2A40.2A$2333.2A
40.2A7.2A155.2A40.2A7.2A$2371.2A10.A.A3.A189.2A10.A.A3.A$2371.2A11.A
3.A.A188.2A11.A3.A.A$2388.2A206.2A3$2376.2A206.2A$2376.2A206.2A5$
2337.2C206.2C$2337.2C206.2C$2343.2A206.2A$2343.2A206.2A3$2348.2A206.
2A$2348.2A206.2A3$2356.2A206.2A$2355.A.A205.A.A$2355.A207.A$2354.2A
206.2A2$2372.A207.A$2371.A.A205.A.A$2371.2A206.2A3$2364.2A37.2A167.2A
37.2A$2364.2A7.2A28.2A167.2A7.2A28.2A$2373.A207.A$2371.A.A205.A.A$
2371.2A206.2A$2354.2A206.2A$2354.2A20.2A24.2A158.2A20.2A24.2A$2344.2A
30.2A24.2A148.2A30.2A24.2A$2345.A207.A$2345.A.A205.A.A$2335.A10.2A
195.A10.2A$2282.2A51.3A205.3A$2281.A.A54.A207.A$2283.A53.2A3.2A64.2A
135.2A3.2A64.2A$2342.2A64.2A140.2A64.2A5$2350.2A206.2A$2341.A7.A.A63.
2A132.A7.A.A63.2A$2340.A.A6.A65.A.A130.A.A6.A65.A.A$2340.A.A5.2A32.2A
32.A131.A.A5.2A32.2A32.A$2341.A39.A.A165.A39.A.A$2382.A207.A4$2365.2A
206.2A$2346.2A17.2A39.2A146.2A17.2A39.2A$2346.2A9.2A46.A.A146.2A9.2A
46.A.A$2358.A45.A.A159.A45.A.A$2355.3A47.A63.A93.3A47.A$2355.A113.2A
92.A$2468.A.A$2356.A207.A$2355.A.A47.2A156.A.A47.2A$2355.A.A47.A.A
155.A.A47.A.A$2353.3A.2A47.A154.3A.2A47.A$2352.A207.A$2353.3A.2A202.
3A.2A$2355.A.2A204.A.2A$2403.2A206.2A$2365.2A16.2A18.A.A167.2A16.2A
18.A.A$2365.2A7.2A7.A.A18.A168.2A7.2A7.A.A18.A$2351.A22.A9.A174.A22.A
9.A$2350.A.A19.A.A183.A.A19.A.A$2350.A.A19.2A184.A.A19.2A$2351.A207.A
3$2352.2A206.2A$2352.2A37.2A167.2A37.2A$2390.A.A205.A.A$2391.A207.A3$
2368.A207.A$2367.A.A205.A.A$2358.2A7.A.A196.2A7.A.A$2358.2A8.A197.2A
8.A$2369.3A205.3A$2231.2A138.A207.A$2232.2A$2231.A152.3D205.3D$2384.D
207.D$2385.D207.D4$2371.2A206.2A$2371.2A57.3A146.2A$2432.A$2431.A69$
2151.2A$2152.2A$2151.A7$2350.3A$2352.A$2351.A37$2103.A$2103.2A$2102.A
.A39$2270.3A$2272.A$2271.A37$2023.A$2023.2A$2022.A.A39$2190.3A$2192.A
$2191.A37$1943.A$1943.2A$1942.A.A39$2110.3A$2112.A$2111.A37$1863.A$
1863.2A$1862.A.A39$2030.3A$2032.A$2031.A6$1814.2A$1815.2A$1814.A70$
1950.3A$1952.A$1951.A6$1734.2A$1735.2A$1734.A39$1693.2A$1694.2A$1693.
A29$1870.2A$1871.2A$1870.A47$1613.3A205.2A$1615.A206.2A$1614.A206.A
56$1555.2A$1556.2A$1555.A20$1741.3A$1743.A$1742.A44$1695.2A$1694.A.A$
1696.A10$1475.2A$1476.2A$1475.A66$1615.A$1615.2A$1614.A.A10$1395.3A$
1397.A$1396.A57$1336.3A$1338.A$1337.A7$1535.A$1535.2A$1534.A.A78$
1455.2A$1454.A.A$1456.A43$1410.2A$1411.2A$1410.A78$1330.3A$1332.A$
1331.A78$1250.2A$1251.2A$1250.A43$1205.3A$1207.A$1206.A78$1125.2A$
1126.2A$1125.A54$1069.3A$1071.A$1070.A78$989.2A$990.2A$989.A78$909.3A
$911.A$910.A78$829.2A$830.2A$829.A46$781.2A$782.2A$781.A78$701.3A$
703.A$702.A78$621.3A$623.A$622.A47$572.3A$574.A$573.A78$492.3A$494.A$
493.A41$449.A$449.2A$448.A.A78$369.2A$368.A.A$370.A78$289.A$289.2A$
288.A.A47$240.3A$242.A$241.A78$160.3A$162.A$161.A78$80.3A$82.A$81.A
78$2A$.2A$A!

dvgrn wrote:Construction could be done directly from the white single-channel elbow with slow *WSSes -- no exponential increase in cost due to running a slow elbow (but it will finally be necessary to build a full library of slow *WSS recipes).

This looks like a very interesting design! It should stay clear of any clearence problems with single-channel elbows.
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 22nd, 2016, 5:40 pm

simeks wrote:
dvgrn wrote:The problem with single-channel-153 is that the elbow-op reactions are likely to take up at least a little more space than the 0hd glider-pair ops.

With some simple censusing code I've written recently, it's much easier to search for an object that shows up in the right place, but with a lot of junk around it. Then you can run a new search and try to clean up the junk without destroying the wanted object.

Using this method, I found a way to build the difficult eater in the NW31 of the 0hd demonoid, using single-lane construction with a minimum distance of 153.

That's pretty impressive. Fishhook eaters aren't exactly the most common objects, especially in the correct orientation and close enough to the edge of the reaction envelope.

The block location changes shouldn't cause too much trouble, just some minor patching of very end of the "standard" slow salvo from the 0hd Demonoid. It's always a little inefficient to do that kind of patching, instead of redesigning from the ground up, but it should be pretty easy (once I remember how to do it -- always have to re-learn my weird utility script tools, to string the pieces together).

Really the original plan was to use that eater-reflected glider for the cleanup somehow, instead of having to add an extra block for no purpose other than to absorb it. It's always better to have an extra signal output to use for last-minute kludgey solutions, than to have one signal too few, run out of room and get stuck, and have to start all over again...

I guess moving the block to the other side of the eater (yellow block location, below) doesn't work, because that specialized eater recipe needs a little more clearance. It's still fun to watch the self-destruct system working:

x = 85, y = 121, rule = LifeHistory
39.A$38.A.A$38.2A5$19.2D$19.2D$23.2C$23.C8.2C$21.C.C8.2C$21.2C7.2D4.
2A$25.2E3.2D4.2A8.A$25.2E18.A.A$46.2A$2A40.2A$2A40.2A7.2A$38.2A10.A.A
3.A$38.2A11.A3.A.A$55.2A3$43.2A$43.2A7$10.2A$10.2A3$15.2A$15.2A3$23.
2A$22.A.A$22.A$21.2A2$39.A$38.A.A$38.2A3$31.2A37.2A$31.2A7.2A28.2A$
40.A$38.A.A$38.2A$21.2A$21.2A20.2A24.2A$11.2A30.2A24.2A$12.A$12.A.A$
2.A10.2A$2.3A$5.A$4.2A3.2A64.2A$9.2A64.2A5$17.2A$8.A7.A.A63.2A$7.A.A
6.A65.A.A$7.A.A5.2A32.2A32.A$8.A39.A.A$49.A4$32.2A$13.2A17.2A39.2A$
13.2A9.2A46.A.A$25.A45.A.A$22.3A47.A$22.A2$23.A$22.A.A47.2A$22.A.A47.
A.A$20.3A.2A47.A$19.A$20.3A.2A$22.A.2A$70.2A$32.2A16.2A18.A.A$32.2A7.
2A7.A.A18.A$18.A22.A9.A$17.A.A19.A.A$17.A.A19.2A$18.A3$19.2A$19.2A37.
2A$57.A.A$58.A3$35.A$34.A.A$25.2A7.A.A$25.2A8.A$36.3A$38.A2$51.3C$51.
C$52.C4$38.2A$38.2A!


simeks wrote:
dvgrn wrote:Construction could be done directly from the white single-channel elbow with slow *WSSes -- no exponential increase in cost due to running a slow elbow (but it will finally be necessary to build a full library of slow *WSS recipes).

This looks like a very interesting design! It should stay clear of any clearence problems with single-channel elbows.

Yup, it's just as clearance-problem-free as the Orthogonoid, or maybe even more so because you don't even have to use a one-time circuit to change the construction arm's direction, to switch from BUILD to DESTROY. Could perfectly well do both at once, in fact.

The Orthogonoid still seems fairly likely to get constructed first, though, because slow *WSS salvos are very nearly a completely untouched research area as far as I know. For the single-channel 19sL Demonoid, we'll have to work all the way up to slow *WSS recipes for beehive-with-tails and eater2s -- though it should be easy enough to adapt many beehive-with-tail and eater2 seed constellations to be triggered with a *WSS instead of a glider, so it won't be all that painful.
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 25th, 2016, 2:12 pm

I am testing out some ideas for an automated search to add self-destruct to a pattern.

Here is a first result. The program is only allowed to place blocks withing the red area, and at least two cells apart. The reaction envelope must stay within the blue area at all times.

Obviously, the return glider needed to trigger the next self-destruct on the other side is missing here.

x = 197, y = 132, rule = LifeHistory
24.36B$23.38B88.4B$22.40B86.4B$21.42B84.4B$20.44B82.4B$19.46B80.4B$
18.48B78.4B$17.50B76.4B$16.52B74.5B$15.54B72.6B$14.56B69.9B$13.51B2D
5B68.9B$12.51B4D5B66.10B$11.52B5D5B64.12B$10.54B5D5B62.14B$9.37B2A17B
5D5B60.15B8.2A$8.38BA18B6D5B58.15B9.A$7.37BABA18B7D5B57.3B2.12B4.BA.A
$6.38B2A13B2A9B3D5B56.2B3.15B.B2A13.2A$5.54B2A10B3D5B55.B4.17B14.B2AB
$4.67B4D5B59.17B15.2B$3.68B5D5B55.B.17B17.2B3.B$2.21B2A40B2A4B6D5B53.
2A19B15.4B.B2A$.22B2A40B2A4B7D5B52.2AB.19B11.8B2A$61B2A8B8D5B52.B4.
20B2.2B2.6B2AB.B$61B2A8B9D5B56.32B2A$72B9D5B55.9B.24B16.2C$18B2D52B
10D5B55.7B2.28B12.2C$17B11D44B11D5B54.7B2.28B$16B12D38B2A4B12D5B53.6B
4.26B2A$16B12D38B2A4B12D6B52.7B10.4B.14B2A11.2C$16B11D45B12D7B51.6B
12.4B2.11B.B12.2C$16B11D11B8D26B12D8B49.7B13.4B2.10B$16B11D11B9D25B
12D9B49.6B14.14B$16B12D11B9D23B13D10B49.5B10.2C3.14B11.2C$16B13D10B
10D18B17D11B48.6B9.2C3.13B4.2C6.2C$16B13D10B10D17B18D12B49.4B14.13B4.
2C$16B13D4B2A4B10D17B18D13B47.B2A2B14.8B.2B$16B13D4B2A4B10D16B19D14B
47.2A6.2C8.8B$16B13D10B10D15B20D15B54.2C8.9B$16B13D10B9D16B20D16B63.
10B$16B13D9B5D22B19D17B61.7B.4B$16B14D7B5D24B18D18B59.8B2.4B12.2C$16B
25D26B17D19B57.8B4.4B5.2C4.2C$16B25D27B16D20B56.8B5.4B4.2C$16B24D6B2A
21B15D20B54.2AB2.6B5.4B$16B24D5BABA22B14D20B53.A.AB.7B6.4B$16B24D5BA
13B2D10B13D20B53.A4.6B8.4B$16B24D4B2A13B3D10B12D20B52.2A4.6B9.4B$16B
24D19B4D10B11D20B38.2C18.6B10.4B$16B24D20B4D10B10D20B38.2C17.8B10.4B$
16B24D20B4D11B9D20B58.8B10.4B$16B25D35B8D20B57.9B11.4B$16B31D30B7D20B
57.9B12.4B$16B31D31B6D20B41.2C14.10B12.4B$16B31D7B2A23B5D20B41.2C14.
5B2A3B13.4B$16B25D13B2A7B2A39B57.5B2A4B3.2A8.4B$16B24D23BA5B2D33B57.
11B3.A10.4B$16B15D30BABA5B3D32B57.12BA.A11.4B$16B14D31B2A6B4D31B59.8B
2.2A13.4B$16B14D14B2A22B6D30B52.2A5.7B19.4B$16B14D14B2A22B7D29B50.2B
2AB2.7B22.4B$16B14D4B2A31B9D28B42.2A6.4B2.9B22.3B$16B14D5BA30B11D27B
43.A5.6B.11B.2B18.2B$16B14D5BABA28B12D26B43.A.AB.22B19.B$16B14D6B2A
29B12D25B44.2AB.23B$16B14D38B12D24B46.25B$16B15D38B12D23B46.28B$16B
16D38B12D22B35.2C9.28B$16B17D37B13D21B35.2C10.29B$16B18D37B13D20B48.
28B$16B19D36B13D20B49.28B$16B19D36B13D20B51.26B$16B19D36B13D20B50.27B
$16B18D6B2A29B13D20B48.2AB.23B$16B18D5BABA28B14D20B40.2C5.A.AB.20B$
16B18D5BA28B16D20B40.2C5.A4.16B$16B18D4B2A25B19D20B46.2A3.18B$16B18D
31B19D20B50.20B$16B18D32B18D20B51.20B$16B18D32B18D20B38.2C14.18B$16B
19D31B18D20B38.2C15.16B$17B19D29B19D20B57.13B$18B18D19B2A7B20D20B57.
3B.2B2A5B$19B17D19B2A7B20D20B37.2C16.4B2.2B2A3B$20B15D12B2A14B21D20B
37.2C16.2A3.8B$21B13D14BA14B21D20B56.A4.8B$22B12D11B3A15B21D20B53.3A
5.8B$23B11D11BA17B21D20B40.2C11.A8.7B$24B10D29B21D20B40.2C20.7B8.2C$
25B9D12BA16B21D20B54.A7.6B9.2C$26B8D11BABA14B22D20B53.A.A6.6B$27B7D
11BABA14B22D20B53.A.A6.5B$28B6D9B3AB2A13B22D20B51.3A.2A4.6B$29B5D8BA
19B22D20B50.A4.B6.6B$30B4D9B3AB2A20B15D20B51.3AB2AB3.7B12.2C$45BAB2A
21B14D19B54.A.2AB.8B13.2C4.2C$70B14D18B59.10B19.2C$55B2A13B13D18B60.
6B2A3B$55B2A7B2A4B12D18B61.6B2A2B5.2A$64BA5B11D18B62.10B5.A$62BABA5B
10D18B62.11B2.BA.A$62B2A6B9D18B63.12B.B2A$69B9D18B63.15B$.68B8D18B63.
16B$2.66B8D18B61.2B.16B$3.39B2A23B8D18B61.2A18B$4.38B2A23B7D18B62.2AB
.17B$5.62B6D18B64.B.4B.8B2.4B$6.62B4D18B72.7B4.4B$7.62B2D18B74.6B5.4B
$8.80B77.4B6.4B$9.49BA28B80.3BA5.4B$10.47BABA22B3DB82.BA.A5.4B13.3E$
11.46BABA22BD2B84.A.A6.4B12.E$12.46BA24BD86.A8.4B12.E$13.46B3A21B88.
3A6.4B$14.47BA20B91.A7.4B$15.66B$16.64B$17.62B$18.60B$19.58B$20.56B$
21.54B$22.52B$23.50B$24.48B$25.46B$26.44B$27.42B$28.40B!
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby dvgrn » June 25th, 2016, 3:35 pm

simeks wrote:I am testing out some ideas for an automated search to add self-destruct to a pattern.

Here is a first result. The program is only allowed to place blocks withing the red area, and at least two cells apart. The reaction envelope must stay within the blue area at all times.

Obviously, the return glider needed to trigger the next self-destruct on the other side is missing here.

For a first result that looks really good! Only 18 still lifes for a complete cleanup, and they're all blocks. My manual solution for the 10hd Demonoid needed 25 additional still lifes, including a lot of boats and eaters and so on.

Now, a lot of those boats and other junk were used to create the exact timing for the trailing self-destruct glider -- but there are two perfectly good ways to avoid all that complexity. One would be to build the trigger glider with the last recipe sent into the construction arm, probably a recipe for a SE glider that uses up the elbow. Or maybe a southward *WSS would be better.

Another way would be to generate the trigger glider as a side effect of the first recipe glider, instead of the last ones, but send it back across to the other side so that it arrives at the right time to clean up the recently inactive replicator unit to the southwest. It only takes one or two extra still lifes to set up a one-time glider output:

x = 219, y = 284, rule = LifeHistory
88.2C$88.C$86.C.C$86.2C13.2A$101.2A3$65.2A40.2A$65.2A40.2A$103.2A$
103.2A4$108.2A$108.2A7$75.2A$75.2A12$81.2E28.2B$81.2E28.3B$111.4B$
112.4B$113.4B$78.2A5.2E9.2A16.4B$77.A.A5.2E9.2A7.2A8.4B$77.A27.A10.4B
$76.2A25.A.A11.4B$103.2A13.4B$86.2A31.4B$86.2A32.4B$76.2A43.4B$77.A
44.4B$77.A.A43.4B$78.2A44.4B$125.4B$126.4B$127.4B$128.4B$129.4B$130.
4B$131.4B$132.4B$82.2A49.4B$81.A.A50.4B$81.A53.4B$80.2A54.4B$137.4B$
138.4B$23.2C114.4B$23.C116.4B$21.C.C117.4B$21.2C13.2A59.2A43.4B$36.2A
59.2A44.4B$89.2A53.4B$90.A54.4B$2A40.2A43.3A56.4B$2A40.2A43.A59.4B$
38.2A108.B$38.2A48.A$87.A.A$87.A.A$85.3A.2A$43.2A39.A$43.2A40.3A.2A$
87.A.2A2$97.2A$97.2A7.2A$106.A$104.A.A$10.2A86.2B4.2A$10.2A85.4B$98.
4B$99.4B$84.2A14.4B$84.2A15.4B$102.4B$103.4B$104.4B$105.4B$100.A5.4B$
99.A.A5.4B$99.A.A6.4B$16.2E28.2B52.A8.4B$16.2E28.3B52.3A6.4B$46.4B53.
A7.4B$47.4B61.4B$48.4B61.4B$13.2A5.2E9.2A16.4B61.4B$12.A.A5.2E9.2A7.
2A8.4B61.4B$12.A27.A10.4B61.4B$11.2A25.A.A11.4B61.4B$38.2A13.4B61.4B$
21.2A31.4B61.4B$21.2A32.4B61.4B$11.2A43.4B61.4B$12.A44.4B61.4B$12.A.A
43.4B61.4B$13.2A44.4B61.4B$60.4B61.4B$61.4B61.4B$62.4B61.4B$63.4B61.
4B$64.4B61.4B$65.4B61.4B$66.4B61.4B$67.4B61.4B$17.2A49.4B61.4B$16.A.A
50.4B61.4B$16.A53.4B61.4B$15.2A29.B24.4B61.4B$46.2B24.4B61.4B$46.3B
24.4B61.4B$46.4B24.4B61.4B$47.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$48.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$
32.2A15.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$32.2A16.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$24.2A25.4B24.4B
33.4B24.4B$25.A26.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$22.3A28.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$22.A31.
4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$55.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$23.A32.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$22.A.
A32.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$22.A.A33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$20.3A.2A33.4B24.4B
33.4B24.4B$19.A40.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$20.3A.2A35.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$22.A
.2A36.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$63.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$32.2A30.4B24.4B33.4B24.
4B$32.2A7.2A22.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$41.A24.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$39.A.A25.4B
24.4B33.4B24.4B$33.2B4.2A27.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$32.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.
4B$33.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$34.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$19.2A14.4B33.
4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$19.2A15.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$37.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B
24.4B$38.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$39.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$40.4B33.4B
24.4B33.4B24.4B$35.A5.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$34.A.A5.4B33.4B24.4B33.
4B24.4B$34.A.A6.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$35.A8.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$
36.3A6.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$38.A7.4B33.4B24.4B33.4B24.4B$47.4B33.4B
24.4B33.4B24.4B$48.4B33.3B25.4B33.4B24.4B$49.4B33.2B26.4B33.4B24.4B$
50.4B33.B27.4B33.4B24.4B$51.4B61.4B33.4B24.3B$52.4B61.4B$53.4B61.4B
81.2A$54.4B61.4B80.2A5.2A$55.4B61.4B10.A75.2A$56.4B61.4B7.3A42.A$57.
4B61.4B5.A43.3A$58.4B61.4B4.2A41.A33.2A$59.4B53.2A6.4B46.2A32.2A$60.
4B53.A7.4B85.2A$61.4B52.A.2A5.4B84.2A$62.4B52.A2.A5.4B$63.4B52.2A7.4B
$64.4B61.3B2.2A13.2A$65.4B61.B3.2A13.2A26.2A$66.4B107.2A$67.4B$68.4B$
69.4B$70.4B$71.4B$72.4B61.2A.A6.2A$73.4B60.2A.3A3.A.A69.C$74.4B65.A2.
A69.3C$75.B3A58.2A.3A2.2A25.2A41.C$76.A2B59.A.A31.2A3.2E36.2C$77.A48.
2A10.A.A36.2E$126.2A11.A$158.2A$159.A22.2E$156.3A23.2E$156.A$168.2A7.
2A$168.A9.A$169.3A3.3A$171.A3.A19.2A$195.2A9$210.2A$210.2A21$138.2A$
138.2A5.2A$69.A75.2A$67.3A42.A$66.A43.3A$66.2A41.A33.2A$51.2A56.2A32.
2A$52.A96.2A$52.A.2A93.2A$53.A2.A$54.2A$69.2A13.2A$69.2A13.2A26.2A$
112.2A6$72.2A.A6.2A$72.2A.3A3.A.A69.A$78.A2.A69.3A$72.2A.3A2.2A25.2A
41.A$73.A.A31.2A3.2D36.2A$61.2A10.A.A36.2D$61.2A11.A$93.2A$94.A22.2D$
91.3A23.2D$91.A$103.2A7.2A$103.A9.A$104.3A3.3A$106.A3.A19.2A$130.2A9$
145.2A$145.2A!
User avatar
dvgrn
Moderator
 
Posts: 5830
Joined: May 17th, 2009, 11:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: New construction arms

Postby BlinkerSpawn » June 25th, 2016, 8:23 pm

dvgrn wrote:The Orthogonoid still seems fairly likely to get constructed first, though, because slow *WSS salvos are very nearly a completely untouched research area as far as I know. For the single-channel 19sL Demonoid, we'll have to work all the way up to slow *WSS recipes for beehive-with-tails and eater2s -- though it should be easy enough to adapt many beehive-with-tail and eater2 seed constellations to be triggered with a *WSS instead of a glider, so it won't be all that painful.

The good thing about slow-*WSS recipes is that gliders can be "inserted" into them if absolutely necessary.
Some time (1~1.5 years) ago I did some rather exhaustive-but-short by-hand searching of single-object+LWSS collisions starting from a block.
Among other things, I did find an INC5 and a DEC4 (or is it INC4 and DEC5?) for very small costs, and a 7-LWSS clean elbow-preserving glider output.
There's also quick ways to get half-bakeries and bun-on-buns, but sadly no eater recipes.
All my results were submitted to the forums; I'll try to find the post.
EDIT: Here they are.
LifeWiki: Like Wikipedia but with more spaceships. [citation needed]

Image
User avatar
BlinkerSpawn
 
Posts: 1891
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm
Location: Getting a snacker from R-Bee's

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 26th, 2016, 8:34 am

BlinkerSpawn wrote:Some time (1~1.5 years) ago I did some rather exhaustive-but-short by-hand searching of single-object+LWSS collisions starting from a block.

Thanks for the link! It seems a single LWSS on a common object creates a lot more useful results than a glider does.

dvgrn wrote:... but there are two perfectly good ways to avoid all that complexity.

Interesting! It also made me think about other possibilities.
Here's an idea where the last recipe creates a SW glider before handing over the elbow to the next subunit. A final glider on the normal recipe lane collides with the SW glider, but only after it has been duplicated:

x = 121, y = 223, rule = LifeHistory
120.E$118.2E$119.2E115$25.2A$25.A$23.A.A$23.2A13.2A$38.2A3$2.2A40.2A$
2.2A40.2A$40.2A$40.2A4$45.2A$45.2A2$4.2C$4.2C3$2C$2C10.2A$12.2A5.2C$
19.2C2$2.2C$2.2C3$12.2C11.2A$12.2C10.A.A$24.A$23.2A13.2C$13.2C23.2C$
13.2C2$18.2C$18.2C2$12.2C19.2A$12.2C19.2A7.2A$42.A$40.A.A$40.2A$23.2A
22.2C$23.2A22.2C$13.2A$14.A$14.A.A$15.2A30.2C$47.2C6$54.2C$54.2C$19.
2A$18.A.A$18.A$17.2A3$51.2C4.2C$51.2C4.2C2$34.2A$34.2A$26.2A28.2C$27.
A18.2C8.2C$24.3A19.2C$24.A2$25.A29.2C$24.A.A16.2C10.2C$24.A.A16.2C$
22.3A.2A$21.A$22.3A.2A$24.A.2A2$34.2A14.2C$34.2A7.2A5.2C$43.A$41.A.A$
41.2A2$50.2C$50.2C$21.2A$21.2A5$37.A$36.A.A$36.A.A$37.A$38.3A$40.A$
50.3E$50.E$51.E!

EDIT: Here is a version with just 15 blocks:

By the way, I can't think of a reason why this self-destruct mechanism wouldn't work equally well in the original 0hd demonoid, or am I missing something?

x = 65, y = 119, rule = LifeHistory
23.4B$22.4B$21.4B$20.E3B$19.BEBE$18.2B2E$17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$15.4B$14.
5B$11.9B$11.9B$11.9B$11.10B$10.12B$9.13B8.2A$10.11B9.A$11.12B4.BA.A$
11.15B.B2A13.2A$11.17B14.B2AB$11.17B15.2B$8.B.7BE4BE4B17.2B3.B$7.2A7B
2E3B2E5B15.4B.B2A$7.2AB.4B2E3B2E8B11.8B2A$8.B4.3B2E4BE10B2.2B2.6B2AB.
B$13.4B2E26B2A$13.9B.24B$14.7B2.28B$14.7B2.8BE19B$14.6B4.8B2E16B2A$
14.7B10.2E2B.14B2A$14.6B12.4B2.11B.B$4.2C3.2C2.7B6.2C5.4B2.10B$4.2C3.
2C3.6B6.2C6.14B$15.5B15.14B$15.6B14.13B$17.4B14.13B$16.B2A2B9.2C3.8B.
2B$17.2A11.2C3.8B$35.9B$35.10B$34.7B.4B$33.8B2.4B$32.8B4.4B$32.8B5.4B
$30.2AB2.6B5.4B$29.A.AB.7B6.4B$29.A4.6B8.4B$28.2A4.6B9.4B$34.6B10.4B$
7.2C24.8B10.4B$7.2C25.8B10.4B$33.9B11.4B$2C31.9B12.4B$2C31.10B12.4B$
33.5B2A3B13.4B$33.5B2A4B3.2A8.4B$33.11B3.A10.4B$33.12BA.A11.4B$35.8B
2.2A13.4B$28.2A5.7B19.4B$26.2B2AB2.7B22.3B$18.2A6.4B2.9B22.2B$19.A5.
6B.11B.2B8.2C8.B$19.A.AB.22B8.2C$20.2AB.23B$22.25B$22.28B$22.28B$23.
29B$11.2C11.28B$11.2C12.28B$27.26B$26.27B$24.2AB.23B$23.A.AB.20B$6.2C
15.A4.16B$6.2C14.2A3.18B$26.20B$27.20B$30.18B2.2C$31.16B3.2C$33.13B$
33.3B.2B2A5B8.2C$31.4B2.2B2A3B10.2C$31.2A3.8B$32.A4.8B$29.3A5.8B$29.A
8.7B$38.7B18.2C$30.A7.6B19.2C$29.A.A6.6B$29.A.A6.5B$13.2C12.3A.2A4.6B
$13.2C11.A4.B6.6B10.2C$27.3AB2AB3.7B10.2C$29.A.2AB.8B$33.10B$33.6B2A
3B$33.6B2A2B5.2A$33.10B5.A$32.11B2.BA.A$32.12B.B2A$31.15B$30.16B8.2C$
27.2B.16B8.2C$26.2A18B$26.2AB.17B$27.B.4B.8B2.4B$34.7B4.B3D$35.6B5.D
2B$37.4B6.D$39.3BA$40.BA.A$41.A.A$42.A$43.3A$45.A!
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: New construction arms

Postby chris_c » June 27th, 2016, 10:34 am

simeks wrote:Here is a version with just 15 blocks


:o That is very impressive. Can you describe your algorithm?

simeks wrote:By the way, I can't think of a reason why this self-destruct mechanism wouldn't work equally well in the original 0hd demonoid, or am I missing something?


Indeed. The 0hd-demonoid has two units and we need to destroy the older of the two. Since your reverse glider is on a lane that is transparent to both units it should be possible to fly it straight past the first unit and trigger the destruction in the second one.
chris_c
 
Posts: 905
Joined: June 28th, 2014, 7:15 am

Re: New construction arms

Postby simeks » June 27th, 2016, 11:52 am

chris_c wrote:That is very impressive. Can you describe your algorithm?

Thanks! I can try... ;)

The blocks are added one at a time, and after each added block, it is required that the pattern stabilizes into a P2 pattern with no escaping gliders.

So let's say we have added 5 block so far. We have collected a pool of patterns, each with 5 blocks added, and each of them stabilizes into a P2 pattern.

The requirement that all patterns must stabilize for each new added block is a pretty severe one I guess, but it simplifies things a lot, and still produces useful results.

For the result with 15 blocks, the number of patterns in each pool was 12288, just to give you an idea.

Now, for each of the patterns in the pool, we add one more block, for a total of 6, in any possible position within the allowed area (the red area in this pattern).

As an optimization, only blocks that are likely to be touched for the first time within the last 256 generations before the pattern with 5 blocks stabilizes are considered.

All placements of blocks where the result stabilizes to a P2 pattern are stored. From a pool of 12288 patterns with 5 blocks, this could mean perhaps a million patterns with 6 blocks.

The patterns with 6 blocks are filtered through a cost function. As the cost I use (width + height) of the bounding box of the pattern once it has settled to a P2 pattern.

I pick the 12288 new patterns with the lowest cost, and this is the new pool of patterns with 6 added blocks. Then I start a new round.
simeks
 
Posts: 369
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 12:03 pm
Location: Sweden

PreviousNext

Return to Patterns

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests