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Real Life Speeds

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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby AforAmpere » September 4th, 2018, 4:43 pm

gameoflifemaniac wrote:How slow are the spaceships now?

For a pattern like this, with n cells in the top middle area:
x = 13, y = 4, rule = KnuthArrows
D$A.8A.2A2$A.8A.2A!

The speed is approximately C/2^^^^^...^^3 with n-2 arrows.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby gameoflifemaniac » September 5th, 2018, 1:54 am

AforAmpere wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:How slow are the spaceships now?

For a pattern like this, with n cells in the top middle area:
x = 13, y = 4, rule = KnuthArrows
D$A.8A.2A2$A.8A.2A!

The speed is approximately C/2^^^^^...^^3 with n-2 arrows.

Ahh, so for 1 cell, then n cells, then m cells, it's asymptotic to c/2^^^^^...^^m+1 with n-2 arrows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby gameoflifemaniac » September 12th, 2018, 11:50 am

What will be the next step in how slow the spaceships will be?
I'm deleting the post and reuploading it the second time, and still nobody answers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby AforAmpere » September 12th, 2018, 11:58 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:What will be the next step in how slow the spaceships will be?
I'm deleting the post and reuploading it the second time, and still nobody answers?


Well, first off, try doing some research yourself if you are really that desperate. Second, I am not sure what the next step is. Some of the other Turing machines on the page I referenced are able to calculate much larger values, so if you want to port them into Golly, you might be able to create slower ships.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby gameoflifemaniac » September 15th, 2018, 3:20 am

fluffykitty wrote:I've made a rule which is doubly tetrationally slow in size.

Where is it? I saw your tetrational rule, but not your double tetrational rule!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Saka » April 14th, 2019, 2:04 am

Saka, earlier in this thread, wrote:Idea:
1. A dot creates a c/2 dot moving left and spawns a binary counter that counts to the left.
2. Once the counter hits a certain point (noted by a dot), it starts counting down (If possible) and is moved 1 cell to the right.
3. After countdown has finished, the counter is turned into a c/1 dot moving left and a dot marking the position, but 1 cell to the right.
4. Once the c/1 dot catches the c/2 dot, it turns into a c/1 dot.
5. The c/1 dot moves to the right until it hits the binary counter marker (See #3).
6. Repeat.

This would be REALLY slowm

I made a rule based on that idea, with a few small changes.
@RULE ChaseShip
********************************
**** COMPILED FROM NUTSHELL ****
****         v0.5.7         ****
********************************
1 -> c/2 going left, counter going right
counter hits stop, stop -> stop explode, counts erased
when counter eraser meets counter, counter moves 1 to right
se -> c/1 going left above, move to right 1 cell, change to state 0
when c/1 meets c/2, c/2 -> c/1 going right, c/1 going left disappears
when c/1 going right meets startmarker, startmarker -> start

0: vaccuum
1: start
2: left c2 1
3: left c2 2
4: binary counter
5: binary 1
6: binary thing
7: counter stop
8: stop explode
9: count eraser
10: startmarker
11: c/1 left
12: c/1 right
13: death


@TABLE
neighborhood: vonNeumann
symmetries: none
n_states: 14

var any.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
var any.1 = any.0
var any.2 = any.0
var any.3 = any.0
var live.0 = {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}
var _a0.0 = {2,3}
var _b0.0 = {0,5,6}
var _c0.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}

0, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
1, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 4
0, any.0, 11, _a0.0, any.1, 5
_a0.0, 5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12
0, 11, any.0, any.1, 3, 12
0, 5, any.0, any.1, 2, 13
live.0, any.0, 13, any.1, any.2, 13
live.0, any.0, any.1, 13, any.2, 13
13, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
2, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 3
3, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, 3, any.1, any.2, 2
_b0.0, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 9
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 10
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, _c0.0, 0
4, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 5
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 6
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 6
6, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 5
7, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 8
0, any.0, any.1, 8, any.2, 11
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 8, 7
8, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 9
0, any.0, 11, any.1, any.2, 11
11, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 12
12, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
10, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 1

The c/2 photon turning around is a bit wonky because it uses the vonNeumann neighborhood.
Example ship (c/178o):
x = 7, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A5.G!

It isn't that slow, but the minimum population is the same for every speed (besides c/2 and c/1, technically).
Fastest possible ship with the same format:
c/19o
x = 3, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A.G!

(Speeds c/2o and c/1o are also possible, but they aren't that fun.)

EDIT: Can anyone figure out the formula for the period?
EDIT2:
Dani found it:
6*l+2^(l-3)+2^l-8
where l is the width of the ship
Last edited by Saka on April 14th, 2019, 4:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby danny » April 14th, 2019, 3:47 am

I like that rule. This ship goes at speed c/301990048, which is the closest to 1 m/s (0.992722972 m/s) I could get:
x = 28, y = 1, rule = ChaseShip
A26.G!
she/they // Please stop using my full name. Refer to me as dani.

"I'm always on duty, even when I'm off duty." -Cody Kolodziejzyk, Ph.D.
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Saka » April 14th, 2019, 4:57 am

This is interesting, as you can see by the graph, the periods of the ships start to skyrocket at around width 45 (according to the function in the original rule post)
Attachments
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If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Moosey » April 14th, 2019, 8:59 am

How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.
I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions

My CA rules can be found here

Also, the tree game
Bill Watterson once wrote: "How do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?"
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Saka » April 14th, 2019, 10:15 am

Moosey wrote:How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.

What do you mean?
Also, I just posted the function for the period in the post for the rule.
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Moosey » April 14th, 2019, 12:02 pm

Saka wrote:
Moosey wrote:How large must the fourth ship be?
x = 21, y = 3, rule = ChaseShip
A.G$A8.G$A19.G!


I feel we have a fast-growing function, though it won’t grow VERY fast.

What do you mean?
Also, I just posted the function for the period in the post for the rule.

How large must the fourth ship in that line be so that it won’t be destroyed and stopped by the previous one?
I am a prolific creator of many rather pathetic googological functions

My CA rules can be found here

Also, the tree game
Bill Watterson once wrote: "How do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?"
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby Saka » April 15th, 2019, 7:23 am

I've made an even slower version of the rule:
@RULE ChaseShipBin
********************************
**** COMPILED FROM NUTSHELL ****
****         v0.5.7         ****
********************************

0: vaccuum
1: start
2: left c2 1
3: left c2 2
4: binary counter
5: binary 1
6: binary thing
7: counter stop
8: stop explode
9: count eraser
10: startmarker
11: c/1 left
12: reactivator
13: death
14: complete count eraser


@TABLE
neighborhood: vonNeumann
symmetries: none
n_states: 15

var any.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var any.1 = any.0
var any.2 = any.0
var any.3 = any.0
var _a0.0 = {2,3}
var _b0.0 = {1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}
var _c0.0 = {0,5,6}
var _d0.0 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14}

0, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
1, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 4
0, any.0, 11, _a0.0, any.1, 5
_a0.0, 5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12
0, 11, any.0, any.1, 3, 4
0, 5, any.0, any.1, 2, 13
_b0.0, any.0, 13, any.1, any.2, 13
_b0.0, any.0, any.1, 13, any.2, 13
13, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
2, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 3
3, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, 3, any.1, any.2, 2
_c0.0, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 9
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 10
9, any.0, any.1, any.2, _d0.0, 0
4, any.0, 9, any.1, any.2, 0
14, any.0, 1, any.1, any.2, 2
14, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
4, any.0, 14, any.1, any.2, 12
6, any.0, 10, any.1, any.2, 14
any.0, any.1, 14, any.2, any.3, 14
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 5
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 4, 6
5, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 6
6, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 5
7, any.0, any.1, any.2, 6, 8
0, any.0, any.1, 8, any.2, 11
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 8, 7
8, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 9
0, any.0, 11, any.1, any.2, 11
11, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
0, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 12
12, any.0, any.1, any.2, any.3, 0
10, any.0, any.1, any.2, 12, 1
6, any.0, 10, any.1, any.2, 14

In this version, instead of creating a photon "reactivator", it uses another binary counter, and once the binary counter reaches the ship, it creates a photon that erases the counter and bounces back and reactivates the ship. This keeps the constant population at 2 and makes it slower as well.
Fastest: c/76o
x = 3, y = 1, rule = ChaseShipBin
A.G!

The width 4 ship has speed c/1589o and the width 5 ship is a c/393309o. I've calculated that the period for the width 6 ship is around 6 442 451 107, give or take at most 2.
I have yet to find the formula for the speed.
If you're the person that uploaded to Sakagolue illegally, please PM me.
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!

(Check gen 2)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby PkmnQ » April 15th, 2019, 8:30 am

I'm in the middle of making a rule for a new ship. I've created half of the process, and I'm taking a break for my mind.
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B26/S2|B358/S3
2o$2bo$obo!
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby AforAmpere » April 15th, 2019, 12:31 pm

For Saka's newest rule, for a gap of n, the period is equal to:
3 * 2^(3 * 2^(n-1) + 2n - 1) + 15 * 2^(n - 1) + 10n +3


A gap of 100 has a period with more digits than could be stored on Earth.
I and wildmyron manage the 5S project, which collects all known spaceship speeds in Isotropic Non-totalistic rules.

Things to work on:
- Find a (7,1)c/8 ship in a Non-totalistic rule
- Finish a rule with ships with period >= f_e_0(n) (in progress)
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Re: Real Life Speeds

Postby PkmnQ » April 16th, 2019, 12:10 am

I've completed my rule!
@RULE Track

@TABLE
n_states:18
neighborhood:vonNeumann
symmetries:none

#State 0: Nothing
#State 1: Front
#State 2: Initialized Puffer
#State 3: Puffer 1
#State 4: Puffer 2
#State 5: Track
#State 6: Counter
#State 7: Counted
#State 8: Returning
#State 9: Sending
#State 10: Waiting
#State 11: Signal Front
#State 12: Moving
#State 13: Signal Back
#State 14: Recount
#State 15: Recounted
#State 16: Uninitialized Puffer
#State 17: Forgotten Cell

var a={0,1}
var b={0,5}
var c={6,7}
var d={0,10}
var e={0,10,16}
var f={2,3,4}
var g={16,17}
var h={14,15}
var i={5,17}
var j={8,15}
var k={0,14,15,17}
var l={0,15,16}

#Puffing
2,0,0,0,0,0
0,0,2,0,0,3
3,0,b,0,0,5
0,0,3,0,0,4
4,0,b,0,0,5
0,0,4,0,0,6

#Counting
5,0,5,0,c,7
5,0,0,0,c,8

#Returning
8,0,0,0,c,17
17,0,0,0,8,0
8,0,i,0,c,5
7,0,8,0,c,8
6,0,8,0,0,9

#Sending
9,0,5,0,0,10
0,0,9,0,a,11

#SignalF
0,0,11,0,a,11
11,0,d,0,a,0
1,0,11,0,0,12

#Moving
12,0,0,0,0,13
0,0,12,0,0,1

#SignalP
0,0,e,0,13,13
13,0,e,0,a,0
10,0,5,0,13,3

#Hit
0,0,f,0,1,14

#Recounting
5,0,b,0,h,15
0,0,0,0,15,16

#Untrailing
15,0,g,0,h,17
17,0,l,0,k,0
14,0,17,0,1,13

#Initializing
16,0,0,0,13,2


To make a spaceship, you make a state 1, and then a gap (choose how long), then a state 2.

I don’t know the function for the speeds. At first, it looks like it doesn’t get slower than c/26 but then it matches up, and continues to slow down.
x = 3, y = 3, rule = B26/S2|B358/S3
2o$2bo$obo!
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