Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

For discussion of other cellular automata.
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Ian07
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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Ian07 » January 6th, 2021, 9:04 am

HelicopterCat3 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 8:53 am
I've seen some rules with a d at the end of them and some people label them as deficient. What exactly is a deficient rule?
You can read about them here.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by HelicopterCat3 » January 6th, 2021, 10:07 am

Ian07 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 9:04 am
HelicopterCat3 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 8:53 am
I've seen some rules with a d at the end of them and some people label them as deficient. What exactly is a deficient rule?
You can read about them here.
So basically, any excluded birth transitions will instead be born into a different state? Does this 3rd state have to have totalistic transitions?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bubblegum » January 6th, 2021, 12:41 pm

HelicopterCat3 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 10:07 am
So basically, any excluded birth transitions will instead be born into a different state? Does this 3rd state have to have totalistic transitions?
State 2 (states 2 through one million actually but whatever) is deficient—it has all the same transitions except it cannot birth with 3i or whatever, and survival means transitioning to state 1 which can.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
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July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by hotdogPi » January 8th, 2021, 10:01 pm

What determines if c/3 diagonal is possible for a given rule?
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei23 » January 8th, 2021, 10:03 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
January 8th, 2021, 10:01 pm
What determines if c/3 diagonal is possible for a given rule?
As far as I know, a rule with spaceships can have c/3d if there's B1e, B2a, B2e, or S4w, S5a.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » January 8th, 2021, 10:08 pm

What about 2c/7d?
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

wwei23

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei23 » January 8th, 2021, 11:01 pm

yujh wrote:
January 8th, 2021, 10:08 pm
What about 2c/7d?
As far as I know, these rules apply to every diagonal speed above c/4d.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bubblegum » January 9th, 2021, 12:02 am

wwei23 wrote:
January 8th, 2021, 11:01 pm
As far as I know, these rules apply to every diagonal speed above c/4d.
(except ones below 2c/7d where S4w is sufficient by itself)
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » January 9th, 2021, 2:51 am

Bump what is this???

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 19, rule = MAPARYXfhZofugWaH7oaIDogBZofuhogOiAaICatIAAgAAWaH7oaIDogGiA6ICAAIAAaIDogIAAgC1AAIAAAAAAAA
17bo$16bobo$9b3o3b2obo$8bo2bo3bo3bo$8bo3bo$8b4o4b3o3$20bo$19b4o$19bob
2o$21bobo$22b2o3$b3o4bobo2b3o$o2bo3bo2b2obo2bo$o3bo3bobo2b3o$4o!
!!!!
Does this follow a special sequence?
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

wwei23

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei23 » January 9th, 2021, 9:27 am

bubblegum wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 12:02 am
(except ones below 2c/7d where S4w is sufficient by itself)
I meant that ONE of the listed transitions was sufficient to allow diagonal speeds above c/4d. :P

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bubblegum » January 9th, 2021, 1:38 pm

wwei23 wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 9:27 am
I meant that ONE of the listed transitions was sufficient to allow diagonal speeds above c/4d. :P
Interesting placement of the "or", then.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

wwei23

Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by wwei23 » January 9th, 2021, 2:12 pm

bubblegum wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 1:38 pm
m
Interesting placement of the "or", then.
I was trying to separate the birth conditions from the survival conditions.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » January 12th, 2021, 12:54 pm

Would the following mechanism be considered a sqrtgun?

Code: Select all

x = 134, y = 126, rule = B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7c
22bo$14bo6bobo90bo$13bobo6bo90bobo$14bo99bo2$28bo$27bobo$bo26b2o$obo
129bo$bo129bobo$132bo4$56bo59bo$55bobo57bobo$56bo59b2o3$32bo$31bobo$
32bo60bo$92bobo$93bo2$85bo$84bobo5bo19bo$58bo26bo5bobo17bobo$57bobo31b
2o19bo$58b2o2$72bo$26bo44bobo$25bobo44bo$26bo5$102bo$97bo3bobo$96bobo
3bo$97bo4$49bo$48bobo$49bo$53bo$52bobo$53bo2$34b2o$34bobo$35bo4$19bo
106bo$18bobo104bobo$19bo106bo$42b2o19bo$42bobo17bobo$43bo19bo40bo$103b
obo13b3o$37bo66bo14b3o$36bobo5bo75bo$37bo5bobo$44bo58bo$102bobo$102b2o
$60bo$59bobo$60bo2$46b2o$45bobo63bo$46bo26bo$72bobo36bo$73bo36b3o4$
105bo3b3o$104bobo$105bo2$109b3o$44bo$43bobo$44bo2$103bo13bo$100bob2o
13b2obo$88b3o12bo13bo12b3o$87bo2bo39bo2bo$87bo2bo39bo2bo$87b2o5bo31bo
5b2o$91bobo5b3o4bo7bo4b3o5bobo$92bo8bo7b3o7bo8bo$92b2o4bo2bo4bo7bo4bo
2bo4b2o$90b3o4bo2bo4b3o5b3o4bo2bo4b3o$91bo3bo29bo3bo$95bo2bo23bo2bo$
95b3o25b3o8$104bo11bo$101bob2o11b2obo$89b3o12bo11bo12b3o$88bo2bo37bo2b
o$88bo2bo37bo2bo$88b2o5bo29bo5b2o$92bobo5b3o4bo5bo4b3o5bobo$93bo8bo15b
o8bo$93b2o4bo2bo4bo5bo4bo2bo4b2o$91b3o4bo2bo4b3o3b3o4bo2bo4b3o$92bo3bo
27bo3bo$96bo2bo21bo2bo$96b3o23b3o!
#C [[ GRAPH ]]
I think the leftward outputs are distributed in a similar fasion to those from a sqrtgun, but the puffer travelling south makes a dominating linear growth in population.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bubblegum » January 12th, 2021, 1:32 pm

GUYTU6J wrote:
January 12th, 2021, 12:54 pm
Would the following mechanism be considered a sqrtgun?
Well, it serves the purpose of a sqrtgun, despite being O(n), so…sure, I guess.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by MathAndCode » January 20th, 2021, 2:08 pm

HelicopterCat3 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 8:53 am
I've seen some rules with a d at the end of them and some people label them as deficient. What exactly is a deficient rule?
If I understand correctly, in an deficient rule, a cell that was just born may not help another cell be born using the same transition that it was just born in.
I am tentatively considering myself back.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by HelicopterCat3 » January 21st, 2021, 8:28 am

MathAndCode wrote:
January 20th, 2021, 2:08 pm
HelicopterCat3 wrote:
January 6th, 2021, 8:53 am
I've seen some rules with a d at the end of them and some people label them as deficient. What exactly is a deficient rule?
If I understand correctly, in an deficient rule, a cell that was just born may not help another cell be born using the same transition that it was just born in.
Oh that makes much more sense than how it was explained on the wiki.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by yujh » January 25th, 2021, 8:30 am

New rule: how close is this series of oscillators close to cover all periods?

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 22, rule = B2ce3ajk4ak5ajk6e78/S2ei3aejkr4-cny5-e6-a78
bob2o16bob2o17b3o16bob2o$o2b2o15bo2b2o17b3o15bo2b2o$2b2ob2o15b2ob2o15b
2ob2o15b2ob2o$2bo2b2o15bo2b2o15bo2b2o15bob3o$2b2o18b2o18b2o18bob3o$2b
2o18b2o18b2o18bo$22bob2o16bob2o16bo$b2o19bob2o14bobob2o16bo$b2o19b2o
17b3o18bo$22b2o18b2o18bob2o$22bob2o16bob2o16bob2o$22bob2o16bob2o16b2o$
22b2o18bo19b2o$22b2o18bo$22bob2o16bob2o15b2o$22bob2o16bob2o15b2o$22b2o
18b2o$22b2o18b2o$22bo2b2o15bo2b2o$22b2ob2o15b2ob2o$22b3o17b3o$22b3o17b
3o!
Rule modifier

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k
b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8
B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8
B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Bored of Conway's Game of Life? Try Pedestrian Life -- not pedestrian at all!

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by toroidalet » January 25th, 2021, 3:49 pm

We have 12n+2 and 13n+2, so that's all periods ≥12:

Code: Select all

x = 84, y = 17, rule = B2ce3ajk4ak5ajk6e78/S2ei3aejkr4-cny5-e6-a78
79b2o$69b2o8b2o$58b2o9b2o$46b2o10b2o20b2o$35b2o9b2o22b2o8b2o$23b2o10b
2o22b2o9b2o8bob2o$23b2o22b2o10b2o9bob2o6bob2o$36b2o9b2o10bob2o7bob2o6b
o$24b2o10b2o9bob2o8bob2o7bo9bo$12bob2o8b2o10bob2o7bob2o8bo2bo7bo9bo$bo
b2o6bo2b2o8bob2o8bob2o7bob2o8bob2o7bob2o6bob2o$o2b2o8b2o7bobob2o6bobob
2o5bobob2o6bobob2o5bobob2o4bobob2o$2b2ob2o6bob2o6b3o9b3o8b3o9b3o8b3o7b
3o$2bo2b2o6bob2o7b2o10b2o9b2o10b2o9b2o8b2o$2b2o9b2o$2b3o8b3o7b2o10b2o
9b2o10b2o9b2o8b2o$2b3o8b3o7b2o10b2o9b2o10b2o9b2o8b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 11, rule = B2ce3ajk4ak5ajk6e78/S2ei3aejkr4-cny5-e6-a78
bob2o12bob2o10bob2o$o2b2o11bo2b2o9bo2b2o$2b2ob2o11b2o12b2o$2bo2b2o11bo
b2o10bob2o$2b2o14bob2o10bob2o8bobobo$2b2o14b2o12bob2o$18b2o12b2o$b2o
29b2o$b2o14b2o$17b2o12b2o$31b2o!
Any sufficiently advanced software is indistinguishable from malice.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by GUYTU6J » February 11th, 2021, 11:57 am

This is a failed attempt to construct a sawtooth because of the lack of proper upstream T-ship suppression:

Code: Select all

x = 104, y = 105, rule = B3-jknr4ity5ijk6i8/S23-a4city6c7c
54bo$53bobo$54bo10$bo24bo$obo12bo9bobo$bo12bobo9bo26bo$15b2o35bobo$52b
2o$18b2o29bo$17b3o19bo8b3o$18b2o18bobo7b3o$39bo5$54bo$53bobo$19bo34bo$
18bobo$19bo9$48bo$47bobo$13bo34bo$12bobo$13bo5$28bo$17b3o7bobo18b2o$
17b3o8bo19b3o$18bo29b2o29bo9bo$14b2o62bobo8bo$13bobo35b2o26bo8b4o$14bo
26bo9bobo37b2o$40bobo9bo35bobob2o$41bo50bo$66bo17b3o2b3o$58bo6bobo15bo
2bo$57bobo6bo16bo3bo$58bo24b2o2b2o$85bo3bo8b3o$86b3o9bobo$86b3o8bo2bo$
96b2o3b3o$96b2o5bo$13bo81bobobo2b2o$12bobo64b3o12b2o2bo$13bo65bobo6b3o
2b3o2b2o2bo$79b3o12b2o2bo$95bobobo2b2o$96b2o5bo$96b2o3b3o$97bo2bo$98bo
bo$98b3o2$95b2o$95b3o$95b2o2$98b3o$98bobo$97bo2bo$96b2o3b3o$96b2o5bo$
95bobobo2b2o$79b3o12b2o2bo$79bobo6b3o2b3o2b2o2bo$79b3o12b2o2bo$95bobob
o2b2o$96b2o5bo$96b2o3b3o$86b3o8bo2bo$86b3o9bobo$85bo3bo8b3o$83b2o2b2o$
83bo3bo$83bo2bo$84b3o2b3o$92bo$88bobob2o$91b2o$88b4o$89bo$89bo!
Any ideas to complete it? Can I use something like a regulator?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by HelicopterCat3 » March 5th, 2021, 11:48 am

When posting ships you've discovered, is it more acceptable to post their unsimplified speed, or their simplified speed?

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by Hunting » March 5th, 2021, 12:35 pm

HelicopterCat3 wrote:
March 5th, 2021, 11:48 am
When posting ships you've discovered, is it more acceptable to post their unsimplified speed, or their simplified speed?
It depends on your point. But generally, unsimplified is preferable.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by MathAndCode » March 9th, 2021, 4:48 pm

Is it just me, or are fishhooks and aircraft carriers more common in B3-r4zS23 than in B3S23? (Technically, everything besides the beehive has relative frequency of zero, but I mean excluding the common beehive puffer.)
I am tentatively considering myself back.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by goldenratio » March 9th, 2021, 7:14 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
March 9th, 2021, 4:48 pm
Is it just me, or are fishhooks and aircraft carriers more common in B3-r4zS23 than in B3S23? (Technically, everything besides the beehive has relative frequency of zero, but I mean excluding the common beehive puffer.)
Judging by a quick apgsearch run, there are about 1.8 eater 1s for every 100 soups in B3-r4z/S23, while the ratio is 0.34 for Life, so yes, fishhooks are more common.
Aircraft carriers, are, however, not very much more common, with 0.18 aircraft carriers for every 100 soups, compared to 0.166 for Life.

The eater seems to be more common because of this, which has a lot of 2- or 3- generation predecessors:

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3-r4z/S23
obo$obo$2bo$2o$2o!
Also, we usually identify linear-growth patterns as one object, or otherwise blocks and other common objects would have infinite frequency in normal Life compared to rare objects due to switch engines.
Oscillator discussion is boring me out. I'll return when the cgol community switches to something else.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by MathAndCode » March 9th, 2021, 7:25 pm

goldenratio wrote:
March 9th, 2021, 7:14 pm
The eater seems to be more common because of this, which has a lot of 2- or 3- generation predecessors:

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3-r4z/S23
obo$obo$2bo$2o$2o!
Ah, yes. That's the procrestinator. How did I not realize that?

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
bo21bo$4o19bob2o$3b2o17bo3bo$26bo!
Are there any other rules that make fishhooks more common (where they still work as catalysts)?
I am tentatively considering myself back.

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Re: Thread for basic non-CGOL questions

Post by bubblegum » March 9th, 2021, 7:28 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
March 9th, 2021, 7:25 pm
Ah, yes. That's the procrestinator. How did I not realize that?
…because you don't go around, looking for sequences that last at least six generations and were mentioned once in an obscure, badly-documented, ancient place and memorising every step of them?

Wait, you do?
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

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