Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Does there exist a (totalistic or nontotalistic) rule where all oscillators must have a prime period?
Last edited by muzik on August 3rd, 2017, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
B012345678/Smuzik wrote:Dies there exist a (totalistic or nontotalistic) rule where all oscillators must have a prime period?
and any other rule where only p2 oscillators can exist
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
I was more meaning rules where every prime number is possible as a period.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Your question doesn't seem to exclude trivial oscillators. If even two different prime oscillators are available, then apparently the answer is "no".muzik wrote:Does there exist a (totalistic or nontotalistic) rule where all oscillators must have a prime period?
...
I was more meaning rules where every prime number is possible as a period.
If you add a nontriviality clause, then the answer is "arrgh, probably not, in the absence of some utterly strange unknown mathematical CA phenomenon that could theoretically be used for primality testing."
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
p3:toroidalet wrote:The first one's trivial:muzik wrote:Are these oscillators or spaceships in any rules?Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B7e/S0123456i78 bo$4o$bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B3ak5i/S1c2ac3i6i
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B3j4ij5ceiy8/S12ae3ckqr4aijq5qr6i
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2ek3aiy4akry5eiy/S12ce3jkqr4j5iy
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
2c/4:
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2ce3er4aei6ik7e/S12ak3ci4nt6i
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2cen3y/S2an3i
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2e3ij4a5iy/S2ak3j4j
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2c3aejr4aeirtw5i/S2a3e4ey6i
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 5, rule = B2cek3cik4ejkqrty5acjk6aei78/S02ac3ejnry4ekrw5einr6ck7e8
bo$4o$2bo$4o$bo!
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Are oscillators possible in rules without B0, B1, B2, B3, and no survival conditions?
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
No.
Proof:
1. In order for a finite oscillator to exist, it needs to have a perimeter, e.g. a line so that all live cells in all generations lie within it.
2. How could such a perimeter look like, in particular, how does it behave in regards to edges? 90degree edges are impossible because of the octagonal bounding box, thus, a corner can only have one shape:
3. In this shape, the cell marked in blue has to be on in at least one generation of the cycle. Otherwise:
Just use the cell below it in the picture.
4. How does this cell become alive? Well, considering it lies on one corner of perimeter, there is only one option, that one being that all its inside neighbours are ON in the generation before:
5. Consider the cell in yellow directly below the corner cell. How does it become ON? It can't always be ON, as there are no survival conditions, so it needs to have been born in this generation. How though?
Our cell only had three neighbours that aren't also dead at the same time (remember, to be alive, they need to be dead the generation before), so the cell cannot have possibly been on in generation 1, preventing the corner cell from being born, preventing the oscillator from working.
Proof:
1. In order for a finite oscillator to exist, it needs to have a perimeter, e.g. a line so that all live cells in all generations lie within it.
2. How could such a perimeter look like, in particular, how does it behave in regards to edges? 90degree edges are impossible because of the octagonal bounding box, thus, a corner can only have one shape:
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 9, rule = B45678SHistory
3.D$2.D$.D$B$D$D$D$D$D!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 9, rule = B45678SHistory
3.D$2.D$.D$AF$.F$2A$D$D$D!
4. How does this cell become alive? Well, considering it lies on one corner of perimeter, there is only one option, that one being that all its inside neighbours are ON in the generation before:
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 9, rule = B45678SHistory
3.D$2.D$.E$BC$EC$D$D$D$D!
Code: Select all
x = 4, y = 9, rule = B45678SHistory
3.D$2.D$.D$AF$.F$2A$D$D$D!
Creator of multiple rules that may or may not be what you'd expect
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Certain classes of patterns can be ruled out as potentially being a ship in any isotropic rule. The obvious example is the set of all patterns which have C2 symmetry (rotation by 180 deg). My question is whether this is the only class of such patterns. I believe there are other patterns which can not possibly be a ship in any 2state isotropic rule but I can't work out what characteristics can be used to identify them. For example, patterns composed of two isolated dominoes such as this one:
Neglecting B0 for the moment, either B2a or B1e is required for there to be any births in generation 1 (excluding B1c which rules out any pattern from being a ship). With B2a one side of each domino will expand indefinitely in different directions and with B1e one end of each domino will expand indefinitely in different directions.
Does "two isolated dominoes" describe all patterns which can't possibly be a ship for this reason?
Are there other such classes of patterns  either without B0 (probably yes), or with B0 (maybe not).
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 2, rule = B3/S23
2o2bo$4bo!
Does "two isolated dominoes" describe all patterns which can't possibly be a ship for this reason?
Are there other such classes of patterns  either without B0 (probably yes), or with B0 (maybe not).
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.

 Posts: 3138
 Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
 Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Is a breeder that breeds itself considered a replicator?
Airy Clave White It Nay
(Check gen 2)
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Using a similar concept to the "all orthogonal speeds" rule, are there any (range1 isotropic totalistic or nontotalistic) rules where at least one of these is possible:
Here's a post that contains a backend that could help in proving the second item in the list:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1971&p=47381#p47381
EDIT: another potentially useful backend:
  both an infinite series of trueperiod c/odd and c/even exist within the same rule?
 an infinite series of trueperiod 2c/n spaceships exists?
 an infinite series of c/n diagonal spaceships exists?
 an infinite series of directions exists?
Here's a post that contains a backend that could help in proving the second item in the list:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1971&p=47381#p47381
EDIT: another potentially useful backend:
Code: Select all
x = 3, y = 10, rule = B2c3aj4nrt5i6c78/S01c23enr4aet5iq67
obo$bo$bo$bo$bo$bo$bo$bo$bo$3o!
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Would this be considered a replicator, or just a double wickstretcher?
It seems to follow Wolfram Rule 50:
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 2, rule = B2a4i/S
o$o!
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 1, rule = W50
o!
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Does this stabilize? 6M+ and it's still going:
Code: Select all
x = 60, y = 60, rule = B3ky4iw5cy/S2n3eky4t
30b2o$29b4o$28b2o2bo$29b2o2bo$30b4o22$3bo$o2bo$b3o3$56b3o$56bo2bo$56bo
23$26b3o$28bo$28bo$27bo!
\100\97\110\105
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Are there any known 1D replicators where the central replicator stays alive after every replication cycle, resembling a onedimensional version of the Fredkin rule and simulating Wolfram rule 150?
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
 Hdjensofjfnen
 Posts: 1453
 Joined: March 15th, 2016, 6:41 pm
 Location: r cis θ
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
I would assume it's some sort of growing logic gate...drc wrote:Does this stabilize? 6M+ and it's still going:Code: Select all
x = 60, y = 60, rule = B3ky4iw5cy/S2n3eky4t 30b2o$29b4o$28b2o2bo$29b2o2bo$30b4o22$3bo$o2bo$b3o3$56b3o$56bo2bo$56bo 23$26b3o$28bo$28bo$27bo!
EDIT: No, since it's made out of rakes.
"A man said to the universe:
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" Stephen Crane
'Sir, I exist!'
'However,' replied the universe,
'The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.'" Stephen Crane
Code: Select all
x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S2i3y4i
4b3o$6bo$o3b3o$2o$bo!
 BlinkerSpawn
 Posts: 1933
 Joined: November 8th, 2014, 8:48 pm
 Location: Getting a snacker from RBee's
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
p2:muzik wrote:Are there any known 1D replicators where the central replicator stays alive after every replication cycle, resembling a onedimensional version of the Fredkin rule and simulating Wolfram rule 150?
Code: Select all
x = 2, y = 1, rule = B1e/S1e2i
2o!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
That's not particularly what I had in mind, since if you built the equivalent of a sierpinski generator for it the stream of replicators would look like this:
instead of this:
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 1, rule = W254
o!
Code: Select all
x = 1, y = 1, rule = W150
o!
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Here's a potential approach to adjustablespeed spaceship rules I've had on mind for quite a while now:
1. A small spaceship (T in this case) collides with a stationary object.
2. The stationary object is translated by a slope (m,n) (in this case (1,0)), whilst the spaceship is reflected back the way it came and translated by a slope of (m,0) (in this case also (1,0)).
3. The spaceship then collides with another stationary object, translated in a direction parallel to the previous object (again (1,0)) and also producing a reflected copy of the spaceship, repeating this cycle infinitely.
I'm pretty sure this is the way I've seen most nonLifelike "adjustable speeds" rules done (using onecell photons and onecell still lifes), as well as a bold oversimplification of Life's geminoid technology, but I'm pretty interested as to if there exists such a family of spaceships in a onestate isotropic rule which could be built easily by hand.
1. A small spaceship (T in this case) collides with a stationary object.
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 22, rule = bs012345678History
.2E$.2E6$2.C$.3C$C.C.C$2.C$2.C$2.C3$2.A$.3A4$.2E$.2E!
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 22, rule = bs012345678History
2.2E$2.2E3$.3A$2.A3$2.C$2.C$2.C$C.C.C$.3C$2.C7$.2E$.2E!
Code: Select all
x = 5, y = 22, rule = bs012345678History
.2E$.2E6$2.C$.3C$C.C.C$2.C$2.C$2.C3$2.A$.3A4$.2E$.2E!
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
This is certainly a viable approach but there are a few things to consider:muzik wrote:Here's a potential approach to adjustablespeed spaceship rules I've had on mind for quite a while now:
<snip>
 If the two SL are identical then they need to be moved twice the distance of the small ship at each reaction to keep up.
 A lower period (and faster) small ship will give you more flexibility in the allowed speeds of the resulting larger ship.
 The majority of analogous ships use a push and a pull reaction  push at the front and pull at the back  rather than a slide reaction as you've shown. That's probably harder to search for though because you need two compatible reactions (probably with different SL) rather than one which is compatible with itself.
 Searching for this by presuming what the small ship and the SL are from the start is probably a needle in a haystack kind of search. I suspect you'd have more luck restricting the search to a rule (or set of rules) with an extremely common small ship, several extremely common small SL and which is productive but settles down fairly quickly  i.e. dynamics akin to JustFriends but with an orthogonal small ship.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.
 A for awesome
 Posts: 1942
 Joined: September 13th, 2014, 5:36 pm
 Location: 0x1
 Contact:
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
About the last bit: If you use a diagonal ship instead and search for diagonal offsets for the SL, you can use JustFriends almost asis with the actual diagonal glider that already exists. This has the advantage that the SL (probably a domino) may be translated a single diagonal while still keeping the ship glidereflective, potentially allowing perfect speeds, whereas an orthogonal variation would require semiperfect speeds or other pseudoperiod speeds.wildmyron wrote:Searching for this by presuming what the small ship and the SL are from the start is probably a needle in a haystack kind of search. I suspect you'd have more luck restricting the search to a rule (or set of rules) with an extremely common small ship, several extremely common small SL and which is productive but settles down fairly quickly  i.e. dynamics akin to JustFriends but with an orthogonal small ship.
All in all, it seems very likely that there is a rule in which a particular collision between a JustFriends glider (or c/4 equivalent without S2k) and a domino translates the domino laterally by (1,1) and reflects the glider 180 degrees onto a lane 1hd from its input in the same direction as the domino's translation. The nontotalistic rulespace is huge.
x₁=ηx
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)
$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$
http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all
Aidan F. Pierce
V ⃰_η=c²√(Λη)
K=(Λu²)/2
Pₐ=1−1/(∫^∞_t₀(p(t)ˡ⁽ᵗ⁾)dt)
$$x_1=\eta x$$
$$V^*_\eta=c^2\sqrt{\Lambda\eta}$$
$$K=\frac{\Lambda u^2}2$$
$$P_a=1\frac1{\int^\infty_{t_0}p(t)^{l(t)}dt}$$
http://conwaylife.com/wiki/A_for_all
Aidan F. Pierce
 toroidalet
 Posts: 1051
 Joined: August 7th, 2016, 1:48 pm
 Location: My computer
 Contact:
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
What would this be called?
Would it be called some arcane term like "Empty space unary counting shuttle™" or is there a simpler term for it?
Code: Select all
x = 13, y = 5, rule = B3y4q5a/S23e
5bo4b2o$5bobobo2bo$b2o2b2o3b2o$o2bo$b2o!
"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Terry Pratchett
Terry Pratchett
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Well, there's nothing like proving yourself wrong...wildmyron wrote:<snip>muzik wrote:Here's a potential approach to adjustablespeed spaceship rules I've had on mind for quite a while now:
 Searching for this by presuming what the small ship and the SL are from the start is probably a needle in a haystack kind of search. <snip>
That turned out to be a good idea. In this case the domino moves (2,2) with each reflection, which is probably down to me not setting up the initial pattern correctly.A for awesome wrote:About the last bit: If you use a diagonal ship instead and search for diagonal offsets for the SL, you can use JustFriends almost asis with the actual diagonal glider that already exists. This has the advantage that the SL (probably a domino) may be translated a single diagonal while still keeping the ship glidereflective, potentially allowing perfect speeds, whereas an orthogonal variation would require semiperfect speeds or other pseudoperiod speeds.
All in all, it seems very likely that there is a rule in which a particular collision between a JustFriends glider (or c/4 equivalent without S2k) and a domino translates the domino laterally by (1,1) and reflects the glider 180 degrees onto a lane 1hd from its input in the same direction as the domino's translation. The nontotalistic rulespace is huge.
The latest version of the 5S Project contains over 226,000 spaceships. There is also a GitHub mirror of the collection. Tabulated pages up to period 160 (out of date) are available on the LifeWiki.

 Posts: 3138
 Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
 Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Has anybody tried to make a WLS/Gfind/Zfindish spaceship search program for LTL rules?
Airy Clave White It Nay
(Check gen 2)
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
 gameoflifemaniac
 Posts: 844
 Joined: January 22nd, 2017, 11:17 am
 Location: There too
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Is there a pattern other than the dot, domino or other symmetric patterns that can't be a spaceship in any nontotalistic rule?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Any pattern can be a spaceship in some nonisotropic rules, which are nontotalistic.
Bored of using the Moore neighbourhood for everything? Introducing the Range2 von Neumann isotropic nontotalistic rulespace!

 Posts: 3138
 Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
 Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X
Re: Thread for basic nonCGOL questions
Not sure about that. What about this:muzik wrote:Any pattern can be a spaceship in some nonisotropic rules, which are nontotalistic.
Code: Select all
x = 93, y = 81, rule = B/S01234678
76bo$76bo55$o24$91b2o!
Airy Clave White It Nay
(Check gen 2)
Code: Select all
x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!