Gluonic

For discussion of other cellular automata.
Yoel
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » August 26th, 2020, 1:06 am

Layz Boi wrote:
August 20th, 2020, 6:28 am
You can also do it using math.

This works because 432 is divisible by 12.
That's what I meant. In your notation of (a+3n) it corresponds to a ≡ 0 (mod 3). If you solve it by hand, it may take considerable time. Try to find the stretching value for, say, 233. Why not to let machines to do such boring tasks for us? It's what they are for, aren't they?

BTW, talking about machines, I tried to run Apgsearch with this rule... it simply doesn't work. It takes up to 10-30 minutes to process just one soup on a 4-core 4 GHz. Apgluxe crashes after 8-10 soups. Didn't try with the Python version yet, but even if does work, it'll probably take half a year to produce one 10000-soup haul... and still would not work! I've logged about 40 processed soups and found out that Apgsearch doesn't know how to filter out pseudo still-lifes and groups of close, but independent gliders. Hauls submitted for Generations rules on Catagolue suffer from the same problem: Many recorded "objects" are groups of independent objects put next to each other, sometimes even separated by 5 of more cells.

I didn't check the Agpsearch's code yet, but I suspect that the first problem has to do with the abundance of natural breeders, while the filtering problem is due to having more than 2 states and, in the case of this rules family, with having different-looking color flavors and phases of the same object.
Last edited by Yoel on August 26th, 2020, 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bubblegum
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Re: Gluonic

Post by bubblegum » August 26th, 2020, 2:14 am

Yoel wrote:
August 26th, 2020, 1:06 am
[a]pgsearch doesn't know how to filter out pseudo still-lifes and groups of close, but independent gliders. Hauls submitted for Generations rules on Catagolue suffer from the same problem: Many recorded "objects" are groups of independent objects put next to each other, sometimes even separated by 5 of more cells.

I didn't check the [a]gpsearch's code yet, but I suspect that the first problem has to do with the abundance of natural breeders, while the filtering problem is due to having more than 2 states and, in the case of this rules family, with having different-looking color flavors and phases of the same object.
These are even problems in Life-like CA. Filter Problem #1 is mostly exemplified because apgsearch (used to?) separates one object from the entire pseudo and censuses the rest, leading to strange things like 3/4ths of a still life. I have no idea why Filter Problem #2 even exists, IIRC the worst it got was 800+ cells separation. It isn't the multi-state; apgsearch is not perfect.
The slowdowns are almost definitely due to abundance of infinite growth. For an example, try searching b3-nqrs23, a rule with a fairly common diagonal puffer evolving from the century.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

Yoel
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » August 28th, 2020, 7:27 am

bubblegum wrote:
August 26th, 2020, 2:14 am
These are even problems in Life-like CA. Filter Problem #1 is mostly exemplified because apgsearch (used to?) separates one object from the entire pseudo and censuses the rest, leading to strange things like 3/4ths of a still life. I have no idea why Filter Problem #2 even exists, IIRC the worst it got was 800+ cells separation. It isn't the multi-state; apgsearch is not perfect.
The slowdowns are almost definitely due to abundance of infinite growth. For an example, try searching b3-nqrs23, a rule with a fairly common diagonal puffer evolving from the century.
B3-nqrs23 only slows down the search. I successfully ran and submitted a 10000-soup haul in about 3 hours. But you're right: Apgsearch can't handle even 1 soup of Seeds. Since my rules produce very regular breeders, easily cached by Golly, they are kind of in between. I would think that it should be easy to add an option to limit the searches to a certain number of generations, which would (partially?) solve the hanging problem.

EDIT:

Strange... Apgsearch indicated that my b3-nqrs23 haul has been submitted and I have the log, but It does not show up in Catagolue. Another bug?

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Ian07
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Ian07 » August 28th, 2020, 11:57 am

Yoel wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:27 am
Strange... Apgsearch indicated that my b3-nqrs23 haul has been submitted and I have the log, but It does not show up in Catagolue. Another bug?
Catagolue only adds hauls to the census every 12 minutes, before which they're put in the "uncommitted" queue. The haul's on there now: https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3-n ... 95bf36471a

Yoel
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » August 28th, 2020, 1:14 pm

Ian07 wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 11:57 am
Yoel wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:27 am
Strange... Apgsearch indicated that my b3-nqrs23 haul has been submitted and I have the log, but It does not show up in Catagolue. Another bug?
Catagolue only adds hauls to the census every 12 minutes, before which they're put in the "uncommitted" queue. The haul's on there now: https://catagolue.appspot.com/haul/b3-n ... 95bf36471a
I see, thanks, good to know!

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bubblegum
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Re: Gluonic

Post by bubblegum » August 28th, 2020, 3:37 pm

Yoel wrote:
August 28th, 2020, 7:27 am
bubblegum wrote:
August 26th, 2020, 2:14 am
These are even problems in Life-like CA. Filter Problem #1 is mostly exemplified because apgsearch (used to?) separates one object from the entire pseudo and censuses the rest, leading to strange things like 3/4ths of a still life. I have no idea why Filter Problem #2 even exists, IIRC the worst it got was 800+ cells separation. It isn't the multi-state; apgsearch is not perfect.
The slowdowns are almost definitely due to abundance of infinite growth. For an example, try searching b3-nqrs23, a rule with a fairly common diagonal puffer evolving from the century.
B3-nqrs23 only slows down the search. I successfully ran and submitted a 10000-soup haul in about 3 hours. But you're right: Apgsearch can't handle even 1 soup of Seeds. Since my rules produce very regular breeders, easily cached by Golly, they are kind of in between. I would think that it should be easy to add an option to limit the searches to a certain number of generations, which would (partially?) solve the hanging problem.

EDIT:

Strange... Apgsearch indicated that my b3-nqrs23 haul has been submitted and I have the log, but It does not show up in Catagolue. Another bug?
Okay, bad example. Try b2ei3ij4aqw5c8s1c2-ai3-a4ew8 instead.
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

bprentice
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Re: Gluonic

Post by bprentice » September 7th, 2020, 9:03 am

Yoel,

Please write a concise definition of Gluonic like the excellent one that you recently wrote for Morse.

1. 2 cells of 2 different colors give births to a cell of the third color.
2. 1 cell of one color and 2 cells of another color give birth to a cell of the first (minority) color.
3. A cell survives, if surrounded by 2 or 3 cells of the same color.


This link from your introduction is broken:

https://github.com/yoelmatveyev/Firewor ... er/Gluonic

Brian Prentice

Yoel
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » September 7th, 2020, 10:55 am

bprentice wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 9:03 am
Yoel,

Please write a concise definition of Gluonic like the excellent one that you recently wrote for Morse.

1. 2 cells of 2 different colors give births to a cell of the third color.
2. 1 cell of one color and 2 cells of another color give birth to a cell of the first (minority) color.
3. A cell survives, if surrounded by 2 or 3 cells of the same color.


This link from your introduction is broken:

https://github.com/yoelmatveyev/Firewor ... er/Gluonic

Brian Prentice
Sure:

1. A cell is born, if surrounded by 2 cells of the same color. The newborn cell takes the next color in the cycle: two red cells give birth to a green cell, 2 green to blue, 2 blue to red.

2. A cell of a certain color is born, when surrounded by one cell of the previous color in the cycle and two cells of the next color: one red cell and two blue cells give birth to a green cell, 1 green cell and 2 red cells give birth to a blue cell, 1 blue cells and 2 green cells give birth to a red cell.

3. A cell survives, if it stands alone, surrounded by 2 cells of 2 different colors or surrounded by 3 cells of any color.


Note that since this rule is cyclical, it does not imply that two red cells and 1 blue cell give birth to a green cell etc. That would be another cyclical rule (too exploding).

I switched most of my research to the more simple rule Gluons (the same as above, but without the 2nd rule), which happens to have a rich variety of oscillators, guns, splitters, reflectors, compact AND, NOT, NOR, NAND gates, memory cells etc. But this extra rule adds some unique dynamics, sparky spaceships and other interesting things.

I am now reshuffling my repositories and adding many new patterns. When I settle on the URL settings, I'll provide the permanent link. You can easily browse the repositories though and find the patterns and basic information.

Probably, I'll also either rewrite my ruletable generator as a Golly script, or just make a Lua wrapper that executes the Lisp code. Lua sounds like a fairly simple language, but I never had time to put hand to it.

You may also find interesting my old rule Fireworld, kind of hybrid of Brian's Brain and Seeds with stable 1-cell dots that are easy to utilize as memory cells, triggers and unstable reflectors synchronized by corresponding period guns.

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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » October 26th, 2020, 4:17 am

Layz Boi wrote:
August 15th, 2020, 7:03 pm
For n >= 0:

Periods (17+3n) covered with the single loop, by extending it by increments of 2(6) and containing 8 equally-spaced gliders.
(136 + 24n)/8

Periods (37+3n) covered with the double loop, by extending a loop by 2(6) with 8 gliders.
(296 + 24n)/8

Periods (27+3n) covered with the triple loop, by extending a loop by 4(6) with 16 gliders.
(432 + 48n)/16

So, remaining periods should be: (7,10,11,13-15,18,19,21,22,25,28,31,34)
Something completely trivial just occurred to me. Your triple loop, if properly stretched, can also be used as a universal gun with any period >=17:

Code: Select all

x = 160, y = 206, rule = Gluonic
20$79.BA$79.C2$30.B45.A$19.CA3.C2.CA.CA36.CB5.BC$20.B2.AB3.B40.A$21.C
6.A$22.B14.B16.CB15.A12.C$12.A5.A6.A9.B16.C16.A13.BA$12.BC4.A5.AC9.B
16.C16.A$20.A3.A12.B16.CB15.AC6.2C$24.A46.A11.A$15.AC8.C39.B4.C4.A7.B
C$16.B7.AB39.CA3.BA3.BC$82.2A$84.C$83.BA$25.A$24.CB58.CB$16.BA66.A$
16.C$20.B.B$25.A$20.2B2.BC4$79.2A2$78.A2.A6$84.C$83.AB$19.C2.C$19.A2.
A2$20.2A53.C$74.AB$83.AB$84.C$79.2B2$78.B2.B$78.A2$75.C20.C15.AB16.A
15.BC$75.AB5.B15.C16.B16.A16.C$81.ABA14.C16.B16.A16.C$95.BC16.B15.CA
16.C$76.A5.C$75.CB5.A.A$19.C2.C60.CB2$20.2C53.C$75.AB2$74.BC$75.A3.2C
2$78.C2.C8$19.A2.A$19.B2.B2$20.2B4$79.2A2$78.A2.A$78.C2.C2$82.ABC$81.
B2.A$82.AB$75.C$75.BA$83.CB$19.A2.A61.A23.BA$108.C$20.2A$105.A$75.B7.
AB12.CB5.BC$74.AC8.C13.A$79.2B$91.AC20.C$71.BC16.A16.B5.BA$71.A17.A
16.B$15.A75.AC2.B$15.BC77.A.A15.A$79.B2.AB3.B6.B.B2.C4.A7.BC$16.AB60.
CA3.C2.CA.CA3.CA3.BA3.BC$16.C72.B$17.2A51.B42.C$24.CB3.AB3.AC33.AC.AC
2.C3.AC30.BA$16.CB7.A4.C4.B36.B3.BA2.B$17.A11.A42.A6.C28.2A3.CB$20.2C
6.CA15.BC16.B14.B34.A$31.A16.C16.B9.A6.A5.A18.A2.A$16.AB13.A16.C16.B
9.CA5.A4.CB18.C2.C$16.C12.A15.BC16.B12.A3.A$76.A34.ABC$31.A43.C8.CA
24.B2.A$24.CB5.BC42.BA7.B26.AB$24.A79.C$104.BA$21.C90.CB$20.AB53.A37.
A23.BA$75.BC60.C$83.AB$84.C49.A$78.B.B23.B7.AB12.CB5.BC$75.A27.AC8.C
13.A$75.CB2.2B27.2B$120.AC20.C$100.BC16.A16.B5.BA$100.A17.A16.B$75.A
44.AC2.B$74.BC47.A.A15.A$108.B2.AB3.B6.B.B2.C4.A7.BC$75.ABA29.CA3.C2.
CA.CA3.CA3.BA3.BC$75.C42.B$99.B42.C$79.AC2.CB3.AB3.AC3.AC.AC2.C3.AC
30.BA$75.CB3.3A.A4.C4.B6.B3.BA2.B$76.A24.A6.C28.2A3.CB$78.B13.B14.B
34.A$77.C16.B9.A6.A5.A18.A2.A$75.AB4.A10.B.B9.CA5.A4.CB18.C2.C$75.C
29.A3.A$79.2A24.A$90.A13.C8.CA$83.CB5.BC12.BA7.B$83.A2$80.C$79.AB23.A
$104.BC$112.AB$113.C$107.B.B$104.A$104.CB2.2B23.CB2.2B$133.A$136.B.B$
142.C$104.A36.AB$103.BC28.BC$133.A$104.ABA$104.C2$108.AC2.CB3.AB3.AC
9.BA7.B$104.CB3.3A.A4.C4.B9.C8.CA$105.A28.A$107.B13.B12.A3.A$106.C16.
B9.CA5.A4.CB$104.AB4.A10.B.B9.A6.A5.A$104.C31.B$108.2A20.A6.C$119.A
10.B3.BA2.B$112.CB5.BC6.AC.AC2.C3.AC$112.A15.B2$109.C$108.AB!

Joaquin
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Re: Gluonic

Post by Joaquin » October 28th, 2020, 5:07 pm

On the second post, Yoel posted some spaceship guns in Gluonic. I was scribbling around with the pen and serendipitously discovered a puffer that alternates between three different colors of "dot" still lives.

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = Gluonic
2.A$4.A$.A2.A$3.A$A.A!
EDIT: Oops! I didn't even read the very next post before I posted this. That one features a variety of puffers, one being almost identical to mine except missing one cell. So now you know that that same puffer still works if you add the right cell in the right place at the right time.

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Re: Gluonic

Post by Yoel » October 29th, 2020, 1:41 am

Joaquin wrote:
October 28th, 2020, 5:07 pm
On the second post, Yoel posted some spaceship guns in Gluonic. I was scribbling around with the pen and serendipitously discovered a puffer that alternates between three different colors of "dot" still lives.

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = Gluonic
2.A$4.A$.A2.A$3.A$A.A!
EDIT: Oops! I didn't even read the very next post before I posted this. That one features a variety of puffers, one being almost identical to mine except missing one cell. So now you know that that same puffer still works if you add the right cell in the right place at the right time.
Thanks! This rule, as well as its twin rule Gluons, is so abundant with puffers that it's even hard to catalog them!

Tamed puffers and rakes are also a natural source of "megaships":

Code: Select all

x = 225, y = 157, rule = Gluonic
6$83.C$85.C$85.C$83.C3$81.2A2$80.A2.A2$108.C$106.C.C.C$96.C3.A3.C6.C$
76.C27.B.2B.B3.C$78.C10.2A22.C$78.C16.3A9.B4.C$74.C21.C3.AB5.AB2.C$
69.A4.C17.A5.B4.B$67.C2.B3.C9.C4.A3.C.C5.B.B$69.A4.C16.B7.A$74.C18.C.
C5.B2.C$78.C13.A11.C$78.C23.C$76.C18.A28$104.C$29.A73.B3.AB$31.A66.B
11.B$31.A65.A5.B6.B$28.CA56.C9.C2.B2.C.C2.AB47.B14.B$22.B43.B18.BCBC
6.2A2.A12.A15.A15.A10.ABA8.C3.B.B$20.A2.C13.A15.B21.B.B8.C.CBC.B.A.A
5.A7.A15.A15.A13.B7.BA7.B$22.B52.B.B11.C.A2.A15.A15.A15.A13.B7.B8.B$
28.CA55.B5.AB3.A15.A15.A15.A10.ABA11.B.B$31.A58.C65.B13.B$31.A$29.A
29$33.C7.C.B$33.A6.A4.B$43.B.B$31.A8.BA$40.C.C6.B7.A7.C7.B17.C$39.A2.
BA3.CA.AC3.BC.CB3.AB.BA3.CA.AC3.B13.C$40.B.C5.B.B5.A.A5.C.C5.B.B8.C7.
C.C$83.C3.C.C$79.CB6.C.C$80.A.CB14.B7.A11.C7.C$82.C29.A.AC8.C2.B.A$
124.C6.A15.B.B$113.B13.B3.A18.B$126.CA.A18.B2.B$123.B2.B.2A21.B$123.C
2.C2.C3.A3.B3.C3.A3.B2$124.2C5$121.C$123.C$123.C$121.C!

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