Thread for your miscellaneous posts and discussions

[b-engine]

(Picturing an MWSS colliding with socks)

AI is very good at making image of socks, but the amount of MWSS images available is closer to 0 than enough for AI to recognize it.

[qqd]

I have just noticed that there is a Lua script in Golly which runs Atari Breakout (known as 'breakout.lua'). I do not understand why someone would make such a script in a CA simulator, let alone having it built-in, when it is not related to CA by any means.

[b-engine]

I have just noticed that there is a Lua script in Golly which runs Atari Breakout (known as 'breakout.lua'). I do not understand why someone would make such a script in a CA simulator, let alone having it built-in, when it is not related to CA by any means.

It may be one of the Golly Lua demos to show its capabilities beyond the CA grid.

[PK22]

(...)

1). "I'm really tired of the fact that some of the most "successful" OCA of all time has been rather uninteresting Life variants: tlife, LeapLife, and now this?"

Look at the past results of OCADOTY. There is only one case of a discovery or discoveries from close Life variants ranking in the top 3 - replicator-based spaceships from HighLife tied for third in 2017.

2). "So even if you're going to use the patched CatForce on a Life variant, please at least choose something actually suitable for conduits"

While the original CatForce has no license, and the adaptation is also unlicensed, CA patterns and software are generally distributed without restriction. It feels rude to criticise the methods someone uses to investigate CA solely based on personal opinion whether or not a rule is 'interesting' (which is rather subjective).

3). "There is nothing that would make B3/S23-a5 any different from a rerun of LeapLife's history, maybe even worse."

I disagree - it has at least prompted research into a few areas which benefit OCA rather different from Life. For example, Margolus oscillators work in septillions, if not octillions of rules, and thanks to the interest in B3/S23-a5, there are scripts to automatically construct them for any even period. The rule is also what inspired me to start working on iso-shinjuku, which works for any rule that supports the glider (there are 2^82). I suspect LeapLife also helped inspire the development of methods and tools that can be used for OCA, but I have not found a specific example.

Also, being strongly critical of the effort and labour of others in investigating close Life variants arguably goes against Rule 1 - "Be kind, honest, and respectful." While it would be nice to see other CA more explored, there are better ways to encourage this than downplaying others' discoveries.

[Disaster16439]

1). "I'm really tired of the fact that some of the most "successful" OCA of all time has been rather uninteresting Life variants: tlife, LeapLife, and now this?"

Look at the past results of OCADOTY. There is only one case of a discovery or discoveries from close Life variants ranking in the top 3 - replicator-based spaceships from HighLife tied for third in 2017.

2). "So even if you're going to use the patched CatForce on a Life variant, please at least choose something actually suitable for conduits"

While the original CatForce has no license, and the adaptation is also unlicensed, CA patterns and software are generally distributed without restriction. It feels rude to criticise the methods someone uses to investigate CA solely based on personal opinion whether or not a rule is 'interesting' (which is rather subjective).

3). "There is nothing that would make B3/S23-a5 any different from a rerun of LeapLife's history, maybe even worse."

I disagree - it has at least prompted research into a few areas which benefit OCA rather different from Life. For example, Margolus oscillators work in septillions, if not octillions of rules, and thanks to the interest in B3/S23-a5, there are scripts to automatically construct them for any even period. The rule is also what inspired me to start working on iso-shinjuku, which works for any rule that supports the glider (there are 2^82). I suspect LeapLife also helped inspire the development of methods and tools that can be used for OCA, but I have not found a specific example.

Also, being strongly critical of the effort and labour of others in investigating close Life variants arguably goes against Rule 1 - "Be kind, honest, and respectful." While it would be nice to see other CA more explored, there are better ways to encourage this than downplaying others' discoveries.

I actually highly SUPPORT research on close life variants. Because lots of things carry from life into these rules, which is very newcomer-friendly. The rules far from life tend to feel very hard to make progress in, unless they have been explicitly constructed for easy splitters, etc. But I feel like those rules are very technical and are just a bit boring, like they are too easy.

(Note that LeapLife, HighLife and tlife, and B3/S23-a5 are a bit too far from life, and might be harder to work with, but they are still better than some other rules. I’m not critical of working on them, I’m just saying that less progress might be made)

But my MAIN POINT is that if you pick a good rule*, and continue working on it, even if it might have NOTHING notable, you will still make progress. A good example of this is B34q/S23-k (not trying to advertise). I spent 3 years on and off working on it, and while not too much progress has been made, there has been a good amount of progress.

But what I don’t want, is someone to pick a rule, even if it is a good one, and then immediately leave. That’s the type of time where you can say the rule is not notable to newcomers.

*My definition of a good rule is that in the DYNAMICS and ASH DENSITY, it is similar to life, meaning that LeapLife, HighLife, tLife, and B3/S23-a5 isn’t but Pedestrian life is. (DryLife is also OK, but not great, since it isn’t apgsearchable without spaceinvaders)

[b-engine]

Should we lock this thread? Birthdays don't seem directly related to cellular automata.

I don't know if the "BIRTHDAYS" section of the index page completely replaces the purpose of this thread.
If not, then it shouldn't be locked.

[qqd]

A new year's gift:

Code: Select all

x = 64, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
$3b2ob2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo$3bob2ob2ob2o6bob2ob
2ob2o6bob2ob2ob2o6bob2ob2ob2o$13b2o2b2o10b2o14b2o2b2o$13bo3bo11bo15bo
3bo$14bo3bo11bo15bo3bo$13b2o2b2o10b2o14b2o2b2o$3b2ob2ob2obo4bo11bo5b2o
b2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo$3bob2ob2ob2o5bo11bo4bob2ob2ob2o6bo3bobob2o$b2o14b
2o10b2o2b2o17b3o6b2o$bo15bo11bo3bo27bo$2bo15bo11bo3bo27bo$b2o14b2o10b
2o2b2o17b3o6b2o$3b2ob2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo6b2ob2ob2obo6bo3bob2obo$3bob2o
b2ob2o6bob2ob2ob2o6bob2ob2ob2o6b2ob2obob2o!

(Use giffer.lua to set it as your avatar)

[b-engine]

What happened to confocaloid after those months? Will (s)he get unbanned?

[ndusN]

What happened to confocaloid after those months? Will (s)he get unbanned?

Weird that someone who's been highly active for years would suddenly get banned...

(...)

(i disagree)

I actually highly SUPPORT research on close life variants.

[...]

My definition of a good rule is that in the DYNAMICS and ASH DENSITY, it is similar to life, meaning that LeapLife, HighLife, tLife, and B3/S23-a5 isn’t but Pedestrian life is. (DryLife is also OK, but not great, since it isn’t apgsearchable without spaceinvaders)

So this is the correct place for this kind of discussion. Cool.

I kinda expected my post to be unpopular, due to some unfortunately strong speeches that i didn't intend to be that strong. Sorry for anyone who might have been offended.

But the main point is that i've seen many OCA that is just too good for words (scroll through the OCA forum and see for yourself) but they are rarely successful (and by "successful" i do not mean how good it actually is, but only how famous, popular, and well-developed it is.
Snowflakes is successful because it has 20 pages of discussion in the forums and lots of discussion on Discord, and you probably know it already, even though it mostly stopped several years ago. Same thing for LeapLife)

It seems unfair for the actual best OCA being, in this way, "under" stuff like LeapLife.

If Life variants are the best OCA to you, then you really need to look around the OCA forum more to see what rules farther away from Life can do.
There, a 5-cell common object can be functioning splitters with a very short repeat time of 11 (rule by FWKnightship)

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 21, rule = 1c2-an3-ijqr4-inrwy5cejkr6cen78/2-ac3ikr4-iktwy5acejq6-i78/3
A.A$.A$A.A6$3A$A.A4$.A$A.A5$3A$A.A!

And where a single rule can have 1150 distinct non-trivial speeds!

[b-engine]

Weird that someone who's been highly active for years would suddenly get banned...

Confocaloid annoyed too many people with long, overly formal replies.
Fortunately I stopped doing the same thing around 6 months (maybe more) ago.

[Sokwe]

Weird that someone who's been highly active for years would suddenly get banned...

Confocaloid annoyed too many people with long, overly formal replies.
Fortunately I stopped doing the same thing around 6 months (maybe more) ago.

That is not the reason they were banned. Please let it suffice to know that the ban is permanent. I don't think discussing it further serves anyone's interests.

[Neocaridina]

.

[Disaster16439]

…

I actually highly SUPPORT research on close life variants. Because lots of things carry from life into these rules, which is very newcomer-friendly. The rules far from life tend to feel very hard to make progress in, unless they have been explicitly constructed for easy splitters, etc. But I feel like those rules are very technical and are just a bit boring, like they are too easy.

(Note that LeapLife, HighLife and tlife, and B3/S23-a5 are a bit too far from life, and might be harder to work with, but they are still better than some other rules. I’m not critical of working on them, I’m just saying that less progress might be made)

But my MAIN POINT is that if you pick a good rule*, and continue working on it, even if it might have NOTHING notable, you will still make progress. A good example of this is B34q/S23-k (not trying to advertise). I spent 3 years on and off working on it, and while not too much progress has been made, there has been a good amount of progress.

But what I don’t want, is someone to pick a rule, even if it is a good one, and then immediately leave. That’s the type of time where you can say the rule is not notable to newcomers.

*My definition of a good rule is that in the DYNAMICS and ASH DENSITY, it is similar to life, meaning that LeapLife, HighLife, tLife, and B3/S23-a5 isn’t but Pedestrian life is. (DryLife is also OK, but not great, since it isn’t apgsearchable without spaceinvaders)

So basically, my point really is (I went off topic a bit) that the engineered rules feel easy and very hard for beginners (you need a lot of knowledge, even I don’t fully understand some of the aspects of it with multiple years of experience). So a bit of a challenge is nice. I really think that rules like Glimmering Garden are about the right difficulty, since they take effort but are still beginner
-friendly, and you can still make a lot of progress.


(I still believe that, if the creator of the rule (definitely the person with most interest and devotement to the rule) doesn’t leave the rule, it will still exist)

Another point:

One of the main points of exploring CA is to have fun. That’s why I don’t oppose rules like B3/S23-a5 or tLife. Also, with every rule explored, even if it dies out, you still will gain experience with SOMETHING.

[Neocaridina]

.

[b-engine]

Sorry. I'm new and didn't think of it.

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Although the forum rules doesn't mention it, braille images (or whatever they're called) takes up space and can annoy other users.
Also, without wrapping it with code or pattern tags (they're the same), it becomes malformed if displayed on narrow screens.
Also, what's the point of including this image?

[Neocaridina]

.

[b-engine]

excitement

I think you shouldn't speak for someone else.
Also, you can modify the quotes, such as trimming it, so it becomes shorter and only contains relevant information.

[unname4798]

Re: NewLifeCA Back Issues viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5650&start=50#p223608
Why didn't dvgrn use find-and-replace?

[qqd]

Doublepost for long delay, here is an edgy H to Pi to biblock:
...
It features an interesting use of the semi-cenark that I have been searching for a way to use for a long time.
...

I can see why:

Code: Select all

x = 25, y = 32, rule = LifeHistory
18.A$2.2A13.A.A$3.A13.A.A$3.A.A10.2A.3A$4.2A16.A$16.2A.3A$16.2A.A4$6.
D$4.C.3D$4.C.C2.D$4.3C.2D$6.C$13.2C$13.2C$8.D11.2A$7.D.D8.A2.A$8.2D8.
2A2.2A$20.2A2.A$18.2A3.2A$17.A.A$18.A$2A$A2.A$.3A9.2A$6.A6.A$3.4A7.3A
$3.A12.A$4.A$3.2A!

(The block to glider was found a few hours ago)

[ThePlayzr]

Autoidentify strength test
WARNING: Not recommended to do level 3+ on PC/laptop or 2+ on mobile. Only run level 5 if you actually WANT to crash your browser.
Level 1:

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 29, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$10b2o4$10bo$9b3o$8b2ob2o2$bo$obo$2o3$8bo4bo$6b2ob4ob2o$8bo4bo4$
26bo4b2o$24bobo4bobo$14b2o6bo2bo6b3o$12bob2o5b3obobo5b2o$11bo8b2o3b4o
3b2o$14bo4b2o5bobob3o$10b2obo5b3o6bo2bo$10b2o8bobo4bobo$21b2o4bo!
[[ AUTOIDENTIFY ]]

Level 2:

Code: Select all

x = 39, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14b2o4$14bo$13b3o$12b2ob2o2$5bo$4bobo$4b2o3$12bo4bo$10b2ob4ob2o
$12bo4bo4$30bo4b2o$28bobo4bobo$8b2o8b2o6bo2bo6b3o$8bo7bob2o5b3obobo5b
2o$9bo5bo8b2o3b4o3b2o$8b2o8bo4b2o5bobob3o$14b2obo5b3o6bo2bo$14b2o8bob
o4bobo$25b2o4bo$5b2o$5bob2o$2obobobobo$ob2obobo$6bo2b3o$7b2o3bo$9b3o$
9bo!
[[ AUTOIDENTIFY ]]

Level 3:

Code: Select all

x = 54, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14b2o4$14bo$13b3o$12b2ob2o2$5bo37b2o$4bobo36b2o$4b2o$46bo2bo$45b
o6bo$12bo4bo27bo7bo$10b2ob4ob2o17b2o6bo3b2obo$12bo4bo19b2o7b3o$41b3o$
40bo3bo$44bo$30bo4b2o7bo$28bobo4bobo2bo2bo$8b2o8b2o6bo2bo6b3o4bo$8bo7b
ob2o5b3obobo5b2o$9bo5bo8b2o3b4o3b2o3bobo$8b2o8bo4b2o5bobob3o5bo$14b2o
bo5b3o6bo2bo$14b2o8bobo4bobo$25b2o4bo$5b2o$5bob2o$2obobobobo$ob2obobo
$6bo2b3o$7b2o3bo$9b3o$9bo!
[[ AUTOIDENTIFY ]]

Level 4:

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 63, rule = B3/S23
44b2o$44bo$45bo$44b2o2$42b4o$42bo3bo$43b3obo$35b2obo4bo3bo$35bob2o5bo
bob2o$46bobo$46bobo$39b2o6bo$38b4o$37b2obobo$36b2o3b2o$37bo$35bo$36b3o
$34b2o2b2o$37b2o2b2o$38b3o$41bo$39bo$34b2o3b2o$34bobob2o$29b2o4b4o$29b
2o5b2o2$32bo2bo$31bo6bo$31bo7bo$23b2o6bo3b2obo$10b2o11b2o7b3o$10b2o15b
3o$26bo3bo$30bo$30bo$10bo15bo2bo$9b3o17bo$8b2ob2o$27bobo$bo26bo$obo$2o
3$8bo4bo$6b2ob4ob2o$8bo4bo6$15bo$7b5o3bo$7b2o3bo2bo$13bo$12b2o$8bo$9b
2ob2o$12b2o!
[[ AUTOIDENTIFY ]]

Level 5:

Code: Select all

x = 50, y = 63, rule = B3/S23
44b2o$44bo$45bo$44b2o2$42b4o$42bo3bo$43b3obo$35b2obo4bo3bo$35bob2o5bo
bob2o$46bobo$46bobo$39b2o6bo$38b4o$10b2o25b2obobo$11bo24b2o3b2o$11bob
o9b2o12bo$12bobo8bo11bo$21bobo12b3o$21b2o11b2o2b2o$15b2o20b2o2b2o$15b
2ob2o18b3o$18b2o21bo$12b2o25bo$11bobo20b2o3b2o$11bo8bobo11bobob2o$10b
2o9bobo5b2o4b4o$23bo5b2o5b2o$23b2o$32bo2bo$31bo6bo$31bo7bo$23b2o6bo3b
2obo$10b2o11b2o7b3o$10b2o15b3o$26bo3bo$30bo$30bo$10bo15bo2bo$9b3o17bo
$8b2ob2o$27bobo$bo26bo$obo$2o3$8bo4bo$6b2ob4ob2o$8bo4bo6$15bo$7b5o3bo
$7b2o3bo2bo$13bo$12b2o$8bo$9b2ob2o$12b2o!
[[ AUTOIDENTIFY ]]

[b-engine]

See more at confocaloid's post, October 9th, 2022:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3511&p=151976&hili ... 6i#p151976

What a close call to solifuge in 2022…
So the underlying reaction is also known as a puffer occured in a soup in B3/S236i, right?

[b-engine]

Had anyone (including moderators) got answer from Neocardina about why (s)he keep creating and deleting posts and threads?

[b-engine]

Evolves into 4 queen bees. I found this when I'm randomly painting in Golly.

Golly isn't a drawing tool and can't save patterns as images. You should use proper drawing software and post images to proper places.

EDIT:

I have made a different move; this time I have changed the rule to add a p24 and a p12 oscillator:

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 3, rule = B34krz6i/S2-n36c
b3ob3o$o3bo3bo$b3ob3o!

That's p16...

Example of people counting period manually instead of using LifeViewer which would be much faster.

[Sokwe]

Had anyone (including moderators) got answer from Neocardina about why (s)he keep creating and deleting posts and threads?

Any such answer would presumably have been given in a private message which should not be shared publicly without the permission of the person who sent the message. If you want an answer, you will likely have to ask Neocaridina yourself. If they choose not to answer, you will have to be content with that.

[islptng]

Evolves into 4 queen bees. I found this when I'm randomly painting in Golly.

Golly isn't a drawing tool and can't save patterns as images. You should use proper drawing software and post images to proper places.

No, instead, I think Golly is a great pixel art editor... and he didn't post an image, he posted a pattern that evolves...

===================

how does this rule work i forgor

Code: Select all

@RULE APGsim

Simulates APGsembly.

State 0-18: Basic Turing Complete Set. (Unary reg only)


@TABLE
n_states:30
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:none

var a = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29}
var b = a
var c = a
var d = a
var e = a
var f = a
var g = a
var h = a

var Up = {2,12,16,20}
var Dn = {1,6,9}
var Lt = {3,6,7,15,25}
var Rt = {4,9,10}
var Ld = {21,22}
var Rd = {23}
var z1 = {0,24}
var z2 = z1
var z3 = z1

# Push
0 z1,Lt,13,a,b,c,0,z2 13
z2 a,b,Lt,13,0,0,z1,c z2
13 Lt,a,b,c,d,e,0,z1 0
# Pull
13 z1,z2,3,a,b,c,0,z3 0
3 z1,a,b,c,d,e,13,z2 13

# Unary Reg
14 a,b,3,c,d,e,0,f 15
14 a,b,3,c,d,e,13,f 16
# Return NZ
0 a,b,c,d,e,f,15,g 2

# Up to right
0 a,b,c,d,e,2,13,f 4

# State marker
17 a,b,c,d,Up,e,f,g 18
# Catch Up
0 a,b,c,18,d,e,4,f 1
18 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,1 17
# Catch Down
0 a,b,c,d,e,f,4,18 1
18 a,b,c,1,d,e,f,g 17

# Data block
19 a,b,3,c,d,e,f,g 21
# Set
0 0,Ld,a,b,13,c,d,0 2
0 a,b,22,2,c,d,e,f 0
2 22,a,b,c,d,e,f,g 24

# Default
0 Dn,a,b,c,d,e,f,g 1
0 a,b,Lt,c,d,e,f,g 3
0 a,b,c,d,Up,e,f,g 2
0 a,b,c,d,e,f,Rt,g 4
0 a,b,Ld,c,d,e,f,g 22
0 a,b,c,d,e,f,Rd,g 23

5 Dn,a,b,c,d,e,f,g 6
5 a,b,Lt,c,d,e,f,g 7

8 Dn,a,b,c,d,e,f,g 9
8 a,b,c,d,e,f,Rt,g 10

11 a,b,Lt,c,d,e,f,g 12
11 a,b,c,d,e,f,Rt,g 12
11 a,b,c,d,Up,e,f,g 12

14 a,b,c,d,Up,e,f,g 16
19 a,b,c,d,Up,e,f,g 20
24 a,b,Lt,c,d,e,f,g 25

1 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
2 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
3 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
4 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
6 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 5
7 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 5
9 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 8
10 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 8
12 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 11
15 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 14
16 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 14
20 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 19
21 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 19
22 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
23 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 0
25 a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h 24


@COLORS
0 0 0 0

@ICONS
XPM
"7 182 2 1"
". c #000000"
"1 c #ffffff"

"......."
"..111.."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."

"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"..111.."
"......."

"......."
"......."
".....1."
"111111."
".....1."
"......."
"......."

"......."
"......."
".1....."
".111111"
".1....."
"......."
"......."


"......."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
".111..."
"...1..."
"......."

"......."
"..111.."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"1111..."
"...1..."
"...1..."

"......."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1.1."
"111111."
"...1.1."
"......."


"......."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...111."
"...1..."
"......."

"......."
"..111.."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1111"
"...1..."
"...1..."

"......."
"...1..."
"...1..."
".1.1..."
".11111."
".1.1..."
"......."


"......."
"...1..."
"...1..."
".11111."
"......."
"......."
"......."

"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
".11111."
"...1..."
"..111.."
"......."


"......."
".11111."
".1...1."
".1...1."
".1...1."
".11111."
"......."

"......."
".1...1."
".1...1."
".11111."
".1...1."
".1...1."
"......."

"......."
".1...1."
".1.1.1."
"111111."
".1.1.1."
".1...1."
"......."


"...1..."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".11111."
".1...1."
".1...1."
"......."

"......."
"......."
".11...."
".11.11."
"....11."
"......."
"......."

"......."
".11...."
".11...."
"......."
"....11."
"....11."
"......."

"......."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
"......."

"...1..."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".1.1.1."
".11111."
".1.1.1."
"......."

"......."
".1.1.1."
"1111.1."
".1.111."
"1111.1."
".1.1.1."
"......."

"......."
".....1."
"111111."
".....1."
"111111."
".....1."
"......."


"......."
".1....."
".111111"
".1....."
".111111"
".1....."
"......."

"......."
"..11..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"...1..."
"..111.."
"......."

"......."
"..11..."
"...1.1."
"111111."
"...1.1."
"..111.."
"......."

"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."

"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."

"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."
"......."