Gustavo Ramos Rehermann's patterns

[Gustavo6046]

up to a certain number of cells

For consideration how many cells?
Oh and can it have some catalysis?

[danieldb]

up to a certain number of cells

For consideration how many cells?
Oh and can it have some catalysis?

24, which is bigger than 14.

[mniemiec]

This still life is known?

Code: Select all

x = 9, y = 4, rule = LifeHistory
4.2A$2A2.A.A.A$A.A.A2.2A$3.2A!

All still-lifes up to 24 living cells were enumerated by computer searches in the 1990s or earlier. All up to 15 have explicit glider syntheses, created by hand. All up to 18 either have explicit glider syntheses, or have been proven to have such syntheses (i.e. not merely an existence proof, but an exact recipe can be shown). All up to 13 have been found in soups by apgsearch, and most of the 14s (604/619) and 15s (1157/1353) as well.

Finding new still-lifes is generally not particularly interesting, except in the following cases:
- Statistically enumerating all that fit a particular criterion (e.g. all of a certain size, or in a certain bounding box, etc.)
- Finding ones that have a particular property (e.g. eating certain objects, forming the basis for a large oscillator, etc.)
- Finding ones that are complicated, yet occur naturally (e.g. in soups, or from glider collisions)
- Finding ways to synthesize complex still-lifes from gliders
- Finding converters to create more complex still-lifes out of simpler existing still-lifes

[Gustavo6046]

Sorry if I did so much time away. I was learning Java and C. Eventually came to my head I should port Golly into DOS and then I remembered this place...

So, what cool happened since I leaved for the while? Should I write a DOS program to emulate the Game of Life (possibly a DOS verison of Golly)? I have DOSBox...

[mniemiec]

Should I write a DOS program to emulate the Game of Life (possibly a DOS verison of Golly)? I have DOSBox...

What would be the advantage of running Golly in DOSBox under Windows, when it can run under Windows directly, without an extra level of emulation? I use a Life program I wrote for DOS several decades ago, that is much slower than Golly. It runs at a slow (but decent) speed in DOSBox under Windows XP 32 bit, but it runs abysmally slow under Windows 7 64 bit, since 64-bit processors can't use hardware emulation. You're probably better off learning how to do graphics in Windows, than programming for for interfaces that were the state of the art 30 years ago.

Of course, writing a Game o Life program (in any environment) can be a good learning exercise, but it will not likely be more useful than the excellent tools that are currently available.

[Gustavo6046]

What would then be a good program to do, in the Game of Life aspect? (I only know how to make console applications) Some search program? Would probably be more useful an Python script for Golly that do such daunting task.
*headbangs while hearing to Duke Nukem 3D Theme Music*
EDIT: Done this code:

Code: Select all

#include <string>
#include <iostream>

using namespace std;


void ClearScreen() {
    cout << string( 100, '\n' );
}

struct cell {
    short int x;
    short int y;
    cell * nextCell;
    bool cellIsNeighbor(cell c) {
        if (c.x == x+1 or c.x == x-1) {
            if(c.y == y+1 or c.y == y-1) {
                return true;
            }
        }
        return false;
    }
};

int main() {
    cell head;
    head.x = 0;
    head.y = 1;
    cell blinkerBottom;
    blinkerBottom.x = 0;
    blinkerBottom.y = 0;
    cell blinkerTop;
    blinkerTop.x = 0;
    blinkerTop.y = 2;
    head.nextCell = &blinkerTop;
    blinkerTop.nextCell = &blinkerBottom;
}

int findNeighbors(cell x, cell c, int u) {
    int i = u;
    if (x.cellIsNeighbor(c)) {
            i++;
    }
    if (c.nextCell != NULL) {
        cell * newCell = c.nextCell;
        return findNeighbors(x, *newCell, i);
    }
    else return i;
}

Just another attempt....

[Alexey_Nigin]

What would then be a good program to do, in the Game of Life aspect? (I only know how to make console applications) Some search program?

There are quite a few potentially interesting search programs which are yet to be written. For example, a few people wanted this idea to be implemented. Another interesting thing would be a program that searches larger-than-life or 3D cellular automata. Making console apps is totally fine, although they are usually less user-friendly. However, please understand that any such program would have about 1000 lines and take a week of 9-to-5 work to write. You would need to develop a culture of debugging and documenting your own work for yourself, learn how to start at the very bottom and then make upper layers using stuff from lower layers, etc. If you only started to program a month or two ago, I think you are not quite ready yet (I wrote wsearch after 2 or 3 years of programming practice, and it still wasn't very easy).

Yet I would be glad to see you prove me wrong. I (and I think others, too) will of course answer your programming questions or share pieces of own code. However, please don't forget that there is a fine line between asking and harassing. Good luck with your projects.

[Scorbie]

However, please understand that any such program would have about 1000 lines and take a week of 9-to-5 work to write.

Thanks... I always thought it took so long to program anything, but I see that it takes time...
Question: How long does it take to write a decent (about 100 sloc) golly script? I had to spend the whole afternoon for the recent "throwaway" golly script.

[Gustavo6046]

Thanks... I always thought it took so long to program anything, but I see that it takes time...
Question: How long does it take to write a decent (about 100 sloc) golly script? I had to spend the whole afternoon for the recent "throwaway" golly script.

It is probably easier to make Golly scripts due to the modules that it has etc. But I learnt C++ two days ago. To prove my C++ knowledge, I wrote a calculator that can calculate the number with the largest Hailstone sequence and it's sequence lenght:

Code: Select all

#include <iostream>
#include <string>

using namespace std;

int parseSequence(long n, long o) {
    long m = n;
    if (m % 2 == 0) {
        m /= 2;
    }
    else if (m != 1) {
        m *= 3;
        m++;
    }
    cout << m << endl;
    if (m == 1) {
        cout << "End of sequence! (sequence's lenght is " << o << ")." << endl;
        return o;
    }
    else {
        o++;
        return parseSequence(m, o);
    }
}

int main() {
    string p;
    long n;
    cout << "\nWhich is the max number to calculate the longest sequence?\n";
    cin >> n;
    long l;
    long q;
    long y;
    long i;
    q = 0;
    for ( i = 1; i <= n; i++) {
         l = parseSequence(i, 0);
         if (l > q) {
                q = l;
                y = i;
         }
    }
    cout << "The number with the largest sequence : It's sequence's lenght = " << y << " : " << q;
    return 0;
}

[mniemiec]

To prove my C++ knowledge, I wrote a calculator that can calculate the number with the largest Hailstone sequence and it's sequence lenght:

This is a good place to start.

One thing you should try to do, in general, is to avoid recursion when it is not necessary. In particular, you can almost always avoid tail recursion (i.e. recursion at the very end of a function) by using iteration instead (see example below). Excessive recursion can overflow your computer's stack, and in a program like this, you have no idea how many depths of recursion you will use. (In cases where the recursion depth has a fixed upper limit, e.g. with inputs of order n, you have at most log(n) levels of recursion, it is usually fairly safe.)

For small programs or functions, one letter variable names may be fine, especially if their meaning is obvious or trivial (e.g. n for a number, i for a loop index, etc.) but it is a good practice to use names that convey some kind of meaning, so anyone who reads your code can deduce a name's meaning without having to decipher the code to do so.

Finally, two minor English spelling errors. "lenght" should be "length", and "it's" should be "its". ("its" means "belonging to it", while "it's" means "it is". This is a common mistake.)

Code: Select all

int parseSequence(long n) {
    long o;
    for (o = 0; ; ++o) {
        ...
        if (m == 1) {
            cout << "End of sequence! (sequence's length is " << o << ")." << endl;
            return o;
        }
        n = m;
    }
}

[Gustavo6046]

[...]Finally, two minor English spelling errors. "lenght" should be "length", and "it's" should be "its". ("its" means "belonging to it", while "it's" means "it is". This is a common mistake.)

Code: Select all

int parseSequence(long n) {
    long o;
    for (o = 0; ; ++o) {
        ...
        if (m == 1) {
            cout << "End of sequence! (sequence's length is " << o << ")." << endl;
            return o;
        }
        n = m;
    }
}

Oh well... Anyway, did you even compile and run the code?

Btw I am planning a Golly plugin that will export patterns to a format similiar to ptbsearch, (without ptbsearch-specific features, i.e. O instead of a-y and no * or z...)

[Gustavo6046]

I don't know where to really start the plugin, so instead I will make a Golly plugin that searches for methuselahs of which one of the outputs combines with the input given by the user... but this will be Godlike hard so maybe when I got the guts to do it.

[mniemiec]

I don't know where to really start the plugin, so instead I will make a Golly plugin that searches for methuselahs of which one of the outputs combines with the input given by the user... but this will be Godlike hard so maybe when I got the guts to do it.

Instead of starting with something difficult, especially when you aren't familiar with the tools (i.e. you don't know where to really start the plugin), why don't you start with something easy, so you can properly familiarize yourself with the tools, without worrying about discovering new results?

While the primary purpose of research is to break new ground, and find things that nobody else has found before, equally important is to understand the things that have already been found, so that you don't keep tripping yourself up on old ground. Once you are comfortable with how old tools work, it will be easier for you to develop new ones.

[Gustavo6046]

We also have these two little beauties

Code: Select all

x = 44, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
42.B$20.2E.E17.2B$20.E.2E16.3B$39.4B$21.5E12.4B$E15.2E2.E4.E11.4B$3E
13.E2.E.BEB10.B.4B$3.E13.E.E.ECB8.7B$2.EC12.2E.E.4BC6.6B$2.5B12.E3.BC
BC4.2B3C2B$4.4B11.2E2.C2BC4.4BC2B$.D9B13.2C3B.4B3CB$BD2B2C5B15.12B$.D
3B2C4B14.13B$2.4B2C4B14.12B$3.8B15.11B$4.5B18.7B$4.5B18.3B2D2B$6.B.B
19.2B2D2B$5.3B21.5B$5.B2CB21.4B2C$6.2E25.C2BC2.2E$33.CBCB3.E$34.C4B.E
.2E$36.BCE.E.E$36.BEB.E2.E$34.E4.E2.2E$34.5E2$36.2E.E$36.E.2E!

so let's use them!

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
26.E$26.3E$20.2C7.E$20.2C6.EC$28.5B$20.2C8.4B$20.C.C4.D9B$21.2C3.BD2B
2C5B$26.BD3B2C4B$4.2E.E17.2B.4B2C4B$4.E.2E16.3B2.8B$23.4B3.5B$5.5E12.
4B4.5B$2E2.E4.E11.4B7.B.B$E2.E.BEB10.B.4B7.3B$.E.E.ECB8.7B8.B2CB$2E.E
.4BC6.6B10.2E$3.E3.BCBC4.2B3C2B$3.2E2.C2BC4.4BC2B$8.2C3B.4B3CB$10.12B
$9.13B$10.12B$10.11B$11.7B$11.3B2D2B$12.2B2D2B$13.5B$14.4B2C$17.C2BC
2.2E$17.CBCB3.E$18.C4B.E.2E$20.BCE.E.E$20.BEB.E2.E$18.E4.E2.2E$18.5E
2$20.2E.E$20.E.2E!

Just another bi-block-producing contraption

[biggiemac]

Would you consider a toaster useful if there was no way to put bread in it? You could buy a toaster with bread preloaded and get toast out, but after that you wouldn't get to use it unless you shipped it back to the factory to have it reassembled with bread inside again. Not really useful.

That's the problem with a lot of your item-generators. They only do what they do if you start the universe with things inside them already. A good item generator can take input and be reused. For an H input, there's a nice conduit collection, and all the ones included are known to have inputs. So if you can make something that follows a conduit, that's a good sign that it can be reused. Try that and you might get better reaction from other users.

[Gustavo6046]

Well this complex machine is probably way better than that bi-block generator. It has an input, but the output can be changed by changing the snark positions to make specific patterns. Enjoy

Code: Select all

x = 306, y = 204, rule = LifeHistory
162.2A$162.A.A$164.A4.2A$160.4A.2A2.A2.A$160.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$86.2A74.BA
BABA.A$85.A.A75.B2ABA.A$79.2A4.A78.2B.BA$77.A2.A2.2A.4A73.3B$77.2A.A.
A.A.A2.A64.2A6.4B$80.A.ABABAB67.A6.B2A3B$80.A.AB2AB68.A.AB3.B2A3B$81.
AB.2B70.2AB.10B$84.3B71.13B77.2A$84.4B6.2A62.14B76.A.A$82.3B2AB6.A63.
15B77.A4.2A$82.3B2AB3.BA.A65.8B2.4B72.4A.2A2.A2.A$80.10B.B2A66.6B5.4B
71.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$79.13B67.9B4.4B72.BABABA.A$78.14B66.4B4.2A5.4B72.B2A
BA.A$77.15B65.4B5.A7.4B72.2B.BA$76.4B2.8B66.4B7.3A5.4B70.3B$75.4B5.6B
16.2A10.B36.4B10.A6.4B60.2A6.4B$74.4B4.9B16.A8.5B33.4B19.4B60.A6.B2A
3B$73.4B5.2A4.4B15.A.AB4.6B32.4B21.4B59.A.AB3.B2A3B$72.4B7.A5.4B15.2A
B.B2.6B31.4B23.4B59.2AB.10B$71.4B5.3A7.4B16.13B28.4B25.4B60.13B$70.4B
6.A10.4B16.12B27.4B27.4B59.14B$69.4B19.4B13.14B26.4B29.4B58.15B$68.4B
21.4B11.16B24.4B31.4B59.8B2.4B$67.4B23.4B9.B.15B4.3B16.4B33.4B58.6B5.
4B$66.4B25.4B6.19B.7B14.4B35.4B56.9B4.4B$65.4B27.4B5.18B.B2A5B13.4B
37.4B54.4B4.2A5.4B$64.4B29.4B.2B.19BA2BA5B11.4B39.4B52.4B5.A7.4B$63.
4B31.11BC15B2A6B10.4B41.4B50.4B7.3A5.4B$62.4B33.10BCBC20B10.4B43.4B
48.4B10.A6.4B$61.4B35.9B3C9B.6B.2B10.4B45.4B46.4B19.4B$60.4B37.10BC4B
.2B2.8B.B9.4B47.4B44.4B21.4B$59.4B39.13B7.6B.B2A7.4B49.4B42.4B23.4B$
58.4B40.9B15.B3.A.A5.4B51.4B40.4B25.4B$57.4B42.9B19.2A4.4B53.4B38.4B
27.4B$56.4B42.10B24.4B55.4B36.4B29.4B$55.4B42.4B.6B7.2A14.4B57.4B34.
4B31.4B$54.4B42.4B2.2B3D2B6.A14.4B59.4B32.4B33.4B$53.4B42.4B3.2BD4B3.
BA.A13.4B61.4B30.4B35.4B$52.4B42.4B4.B3D4B2.B2A13.4B63.4B28.4B37.4B$
51.4B42.4B5.11B9.A4.4B65.4B26.4B39.4B$50.4B43.3B6.11B7.3A3.4B6.2A59.
4B24.4B41.4B$49.4B42.2AB8.11B6.A5.4B8.A14.2A44.4B22.4B43.4B$48.4B42.A
.AB9.11B4.B2A3.4B9.A.AB10.B2AB8.2A34.4B20.4B45.4B$47.4B43.A7.2A6.7B5.
3B2.4B11.2AB.2B7.4B7.B2A2B33.4B18.4B47.4B$46.4B43.2A8.A5.8B4.3B2.4B
14.5B6.4B8.4B34.4B16.4B49.4B$45.4B54.A.AB.8B5.8B6.2A7.7B4.5B5.6B5.2A
28.4B14.4B51.4B13.A$44.4B56.2AB.21B6.A8.7B3.7B.8B.2B2.B2AB28.4B12.4B
53.4B10.3A$43.4B59.24B2.BA.A2.A.2A2.7B.22B2.2B30.4B10.4B55.4B8.A$42.
4B60.25B.B2A3.2A.A35B32.4B8.4B57.4B7.2A$41.4B61.27B10.36B31.4B6.4B59.
4B3.5B$40.4B63.26B11.32B2A2B31.4B4.4B61.4B2.3B$39.4B64.26B11.32B2A3B
31.4B2.4B63.9B7.2A$38.4B67.B.22B2.2A3.2A.B.35B33.8B65.8B8.A$37.4B71.
20B3.A.A.A.A38B34.6B11.A55.10B3.B.A.2A$36.4B73.18B6.A.A.B.30B.7B34.4B
10.3A55.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$35.4B75.15B7.2A.2A23B3.B2.4B.6B33.6B8.A58.7B2A
3BAB2.2A$34.4B77.13B12.B.21B3.3B2.9B33.8B7.2A57.12B4A$33.4B79.12B14.
20B3.B2AB3.8B32.4B2.4B3.5B55.2AB.7B3.2B.A$32.4B81.12B14.13B.4B5.2A5.
8B30.4B4.4B2.3B56.A.AB.7B2.B3A$31.4B83.4B.6B15.11B.4B14.7B29.4B6.9B7.
2A46.A5.4B4.A$30.4B85.9B13.18B16.6B7.2A19.4B8.8B8.A45.2A5.4B5.5A$29.
4B87.8B12.18B17.2B3D2B6.A19.4B10.10B3.B.A.2A48.4B10.A$28.4B88.9B11.
17B18.2BD4B3.BA.A18.4B11.7B2A2B.B3A2.A47.4B9.A$27.4B89.9B8.A2.16B19.B
3D4B2.B2A18.4B12.7B2A3BAB2.2A47.4B10.2A$26.4B91.8B6.3A2.8B.6B20.11B
19.4B13.12B4A48.4B$25.4B93.3B3D2B4.A5.7B3.4B21.11B18.4B12.2AB.7B3.2B.
A47.4B$24.4B95.2BD4B4.2A4.7B2.4B22.11B17.4B12.A.AB.7B2.B3A47.4B$9.A
13.4B96.B3D4B.4B4.6B2.4B24.11B15.4B13.A5.4B4.A49.4B$9.3A10.4B97.11B5.
7B.4B25.2B.7B15.4B13.2A5.4B5.5A43.4B$12.A8.4B98.12B3.12B25.11B14.4B
20.4B10.A42.4B$11.2A7.4B99.12B2.12B26.10B14.4B20.4B9.A43.4B$11.5B3.4B
101.11B.12B25.12B13.4B20.4B10.2A41.4B$13.3B2.4B92.2A11.7B.4B.7B24.13B
13.4B20.4B53.4B$3.2A7.9B94.A10.20B24.17B9.4B20.4B53.4B$3.A8.8B95.A.AB
3.B.21B25.18B7.4B20.4B53.4B$2A.A.B3.10B97.2AB.25B23.2AB.13B2A2B5.4B
20.4B53.4B$A2.3AB.2B2A7B99.27B22.A.AB3.4B.6B2AB5.4B20.4B53.4B$.2A2.BA
3B2A7B99.28B.2A18.A8.B4.8B3.4B20.4B53.4B$3.4A12B100.27BA.A17.2A15.6B
2.4B20.4B53.4B$3.A.2B3.7B.B2A96.3B.24B.BA34.7B.4B20.4B53.4B$4.3AB2.7B
.BA.A95.2A2.B.B2.18B38.6B.4B20.4B53.4B$7.A4.4B5.A96.A3.3B.11B3.2B41.
9B20.4B53.4B$2.5A5.4B5.2A92.3A3.B2AB2.8B4.2B42.8B20.4B53.4B$2.A10.4B
98.A6.2A4.6B4.BA2B40.8B20.4B53.4B$4.A9.4B109.4B7.A.A32.A8.7B20.4B53.
4B$3.2A10.4B107.B2A2B8.A33.3A6.6B20.4B53.4B$16.4B107.2A47.A4.2B3D2B
19.4B53.4B$17.4B154.2A4.4BD2B18.4B53.4B$18.4B153.4B.4B3DB17.4B53.4B$
19.4B154.11B16.4B53.4B$20.4B152.12B15.4B53.4B$21.4B151.12B.B3.B8.4B
53.4B$22.4B150.15B.5B4.4B53.4B$23.4B150.7B.2D12B.4B53.4B$24.4B149.8B
2D16B53.4B$25.4B149.15B2D9B51.4B$26.4B148.13BD2BD9B50.4B$27.4B146.14B
DBD9B50.4B$28.4B143.B.14B3D8B50.4B$29.4B141.2A27B48.4B$30.4B140.2A27B
47.4B$31.4B140.28B46.4B$32.4B139.3B.25B44.4B$33.4B142.25B43.4B$34.4B
142.8B3D13B42.4B$35.4B139.27B40.4B$36.4B136.A.2AB5.7B2D10B39.4B$37.4B
133.3AB2AB5.2B.4B2D9B39.4B$38.4B131.A4.B11.13B39.4B$39.4B131.3A.2A10.
13B38.4B$40.4B132.A.A10.13B38.4B$41.4B131.A.A9.4B.9B37.4B$42.4B131.A
9.4B2.8B37.4B$43.4B139.4B3.9B35.4B$44.4B137.4B4.8B35.4B$45.4B135.4B7.
7B33.4B$46.4B133.4B7.9B31.4B$47.4B131.4B7.11B29.4B$48.4B129.4B8.7B.4B
27.4B$49.4B127.4B10.5B3.4B25.4B$50.4B125.4B13.3B4.4B23.4B$51.4B123.4B
15.B6.4B21.4B$52.4B121.4B24.4B19.4B$53.4B119.4B26.4B6.A10.4B$54.4B
117.4B28.4B5.3A7.4B$55.4B115.4B30.4B7.A5.4B$56.4B113.4B32.4B5.2A4.4B$
57.4B111.4B34.4B4.9B$58.4B109.4B36.4B5.6B$59.4B107.4B38.4B2.8B$60.4B
105.4B40.15B$61.4B103.4B42.14B$62.4B101.4B44.13B$63.4B99.4B46.10B.B2A
$64.4B97.4B49.3B2AB3.BA.A$65.4B95.4B50.3B2AB6.A$66.4B93.4B53.4B6.2A$
67.4B91.4B54.3B$68.4B89.4B52.AB.2B$69.4B87.4B52.A.AB2AB$70.4B85.4B53.
A.ABABAB$71.4B83.4B51.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$72.4B81.4B52.A2.A2.2A.4A$73.4B79.
4B55.2A4.A$74.4B77.4B62.A.A$75.4B75.4B64.2A$76.4B73.4B$77.4B71.4B$78.
4B69.4B$79.4B67.4B$80.4B65.4B$81.4B63.4B$82.4B61.4B$83.4B59.4B$84.4B
57.4B$85.4B55.4B$86.4B53.4B$87.4B51.4B$88.4B49.4B$89.4B47.4B$90.4B45.
4B$91.4B43.4B$92.4B41.4B$93.4B39.4B$94.4B37.4B$95.4B35.4B$96.4B33.4B$
97.4B31.4B$98.4B29.4B$99.4B27.4B$100.4B25.4B$101.4B23.4B$102.4B21.4B$
103.4B19.4B$104.4B10.A6.4B$105.4B7.3A5.4B$106.4B5.A7.4B$107.4B4.2A5.
4B$108.9B4.4B$109.6B5.4B$109.8B2.4B$107.15B$107.14B$107.13B$105.2AB.
10B$104.A.AB3.B2A3B$104.A6.B2A3B$103.2A6.4B$112.3B$113.2B.BA$112.B2AB
A.A$111.BABABA.A$109.A2.A.A.A.A.2A$109.4A.2A2.A2.A$113.A4.2A$111.A.A$
111.2A!

[mniemiec]

Well this complex machine is probably way better than that bi-block generator. It has an input, but the output can be changed by changing the snark positions to make specific patterns. Enjoy

To continue biggiemac's analogy: a toaster wouldn't really be useful if you had to unscrew the cover each time you wanted to insert a piece of bread. Inputs are only useful if they're easily accessible from the outside, and in this case, the input herschel is surrounded by still-lifes. It would be very difficult to get into the input location without passing through anything else first.

[Scorbie]

Well finding new patterns are pretty hard and sometimes stressful, but don't be too let down about it... They're always hard. You just have to be patient and take some time.

[dvgrn]

Well this complex machine is probably way better than that bi-block generator. It has an input, but the output can be changed by changing the snark positions to make specific patterns. Enjoy

To continue biggiemac's analogy: a toaster wouldn't really be useful if you had to unscrew the cover each time you wanted to insert a piece of bread. Inputs are only useful if they're easily accessible from the outside, and in this case, the input herschel is surrounded by still-lifes. It would be very difficult to get into the input location without passing through anything else first.

Technically a Herschel could probably be sneaked into that input location, but you'd have to move the two Snarks in the northwest to fit the glider through some gap in the delivery circuit. It would be better to solve that problem than leave it to viewers' imagination.

There's an easy fix, though. Just leave off the first Herschel conduit, the R126. It doesn't do anything (which is a little odd -- it makes a perfectly good output glider, which is then mysteriously thrown away).

Then comes an F171 conduit... while you're at it, it might make sense to take out the following F271, since it also doesn't produce any gliders, connect directly to the Fx77, and just tighten up the Snark reflectors so that they get the gliders there sooner.

After that... well, it will still be a toaster that takes a nice piece of bread (Herschel) as input, and spews out a random pile of crumbs.

It is just barely possible that someday someone will really want some particular pile of specifically shaped crumbs. But unless you go to the work of compiling and publishing a catalogue of all of the millions of different piles of crumbs that this toaster can produce, probably no one will use this toaster to produce the crumbs they want. They will just go ahead and build their own toaster when they need it.

[dvgrn]

Along the lines of biggiemac's comment, it's just as important to be able to get the output out, as to be able to get the input in. For those crumbs to be useful, it will be necessary to send some kind of signal in, and provide a channel for the resulting active reaction to escape.

You can hit the current set of crumbs with a *WSS spaceship, but that's expensive. There aren't many open lanes left for an input glider. The chains of reflectors have blocked off most of the likely escape routes, too. There's maybe a small area to put catalysts to the south, but that's about it.

Now, it's actually very easy to create a toaster that spits out its crumbs far to one side, with no Snark reflectors nearby, so that you still have access from two or three sides. Try arranging to hit an output Herschel from an F117 or F171 with a single glider from the northwest or southwest. For example:

Code: Select all

x = 122, y = 85, rule = LifeHistory
.C$2.C$3C33$91.C$92.C$90.3C10$18.A$18.3A$21.A$20.2A$20.6B$13.2A7.5B
14.4B$14.A6.7B12.5B$14.A.AB2.8B10.7B$15.2AB.10B2.2B2.10B$16.22BD6B$
12.2A3.21BDBD4B$13.A4.20B3D4B54.2A$13.A.AB.22BD4B55.A$14.2A28B43.A11.
A$15.17B.6B48.3A9.2A$17.21B52.A9.B$8.A10.18B40.2A10.2A9.3B$8.3A8.15B
44.A10.5B5.6B16.B$11.A7.14B45.A.AB9.4B3.10B11.3B$10.2A3.B3.13B47.2AB.
3B4.6B2.11B3.2B2.6B$10.8B.12B50.7B.13B2A15BD2B$12.18B51.21B2A15BDBD$
12.17B53.37B3D$11.17B53.40BD$9.18B52.43B$6.20B50.19B.B3.12B$6.3BC15B
51.3BC13B7.7B.B$6.3BCBC4B.9B50.3BCBC4B.6B$6.3B3C4B2.7B51.3B3C4B2.B.5B
$6.5BC4B4.5B51.5BC4B7.2A$6.9B3.5B52.10B8.A$18.2A54.4B16.3A$19.A53.4B
19.A$16.3A53.4B$2.2A12.A55.2A$3.A69.A$3A67.3A$A69.A!

Until you've made a catalogue of all the possible piles of crumbs you can get by changing the phase and position of those single gliders, there's not much point in randomly throwing more gliders in. And just to be very clear: a full catalogue could be attached to a single forum posting. Please don't waste any time coming up with different options manually, and posting each one separately...!

---------------------------------------------

It may appear that some Life constructions are huge and complicated, but they're actually the opposite. Ideally they should be as simple as they can possibly be while still doing what they do. For example, Extrementhusiast's dragon lightsaber calculates the regular paper-folding sequence. So if you can figure out how to take some of the pieces out, or replace them with smaller pieces, and the pattern still produced the same sequence of blocks, then that would be a more impressive dragon lightsaber.

On the other hand, if you add more pieces and it still does more or less the same thing, as you've done with your Herschel-plus-lots-of-Snarks pattern, that's not so good. That just makes a toaster into -- let's say -- a toaster with a cell phone bolted to it. It doesn't improve either the cell phone or the toaster.

[Gustavo6046]

Was this already found?

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 12, rule = LifeHistory
4.2B$3.4B$3.6B$.8B$.9B2.B$.2B2C5B.B2A$.3BC7B2A$2B2C2D4B.2B$.BCD2BD3B$
.BD2BD3B$2.B2D3B$4.3B!

And more: this Wing can output gliders in a different lane! Though I'm unsure if this accepts input:

Code: Select all

x = 52, y = 31, rule = LifeHistory
11.2A.A$11.A.2A2$12.5A$B6.2A2.A4.A$2B5.A2.A.BAB$3B5.A.A.2AB$4B3.2A.A.
4BA$.4B5.A3.BABA$2.4B4.2A2.A2BA$3.4B8.2A3B$4.4B9.4B$5.4B9.4B$6.4B6.7B
$7.4B3.9B$8.4B2.10B$9.4B.4B2C5B25.2C$10.6BCBC5B24.C.C$11.5B2C6B24.2C$
11.13B$12.11B$13.10B$15.8B$15.8B$15.8B$15.7B$16.8B$16.3B3.2A$17.B4.A$
23.3A$25.A!

Edit: What is it called when the eater 1 at northeast metamorphisis to a weird shape and then back to a eater 1?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
18.A$16.3A$7.B7.A$4.8B2.B2A$4.13B$4.12B$3.13B$3.13B$3.14B$3.4B2D9B$.
4BDBD9B$5B2D9B$16B$.15B$2.9B2.3B$4.8B2.B$4.8B$4.8B$4.7B$5.8B$5.3B3.2A
$6.B4.A$12.3A$14.A!

[Gustavo6046]

I am sure this reaction could be used in Bellman:

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
10.2C$8.CB.C$2A4.2B3C3B$A5.6B2C$2.A.2AB.4BCBC$.2AB2AB4.BC2B$4.B7.4B$.
2A.2A7.4B$2.A.A9.3B$2.A.A10.B$3.A!

I was looking for some glider reactions.

> I could write a plugin that enters a RLE for reactee, number of reactees and number of gliders and then would determine all possible combinations of glider and reactee positions.

Also I don't believe there is as easy and edgy a beehive as this, that returns a glider back, as much as this:

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 41, rule = LifeHistory
39.B$38.2B$37.3B$36.4B$35.4B$34.4B$33.4B$32.4B$31.4B$30.4B$29.4B$28.
4B$27.4B$8.2B4.B.B9.4B$6.12B7.4B$5.6B2C6B5.4B$5.2B2C2B2C6B4.4B$6.B2C
10B.6B$5.20B$4.7B2C11B$3.8B2C10B$3.20B$.D.24B$DBD25B$DBD26B$.D14BC13B
$3.6B2C4B2C12B.2B$4.5B2C4BCBC12B2C2B$9.21B2C2B$7.28B$6.30B$6.30B$8.
27B$11.24B$12.18B.3B$13.B.16B.2B$16.14B$17.12B$17.12B$20.8B$21.B.3B!

And finally, the following (already known) reaction MUST be passed in ptbsearch:

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 10, rule = LifeHistory
C$.2C$2C6$11.C.2C$11.2C.C!

[Gustavo6046]

How many gliders usually turn a boat into a tub really?

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 27, rule = LifeHistory
.C$2BC$3CB$.4B$2.4B$3.4B3.B$4.11B$5.11B$6.12B$6.12B$6.13B$6.14B$6.3BC
2BD8B$4.4BCBCD.D6B$3.5B2C2BD6B$3.17B$4.16B$5.9B2.2B.B2A$7.8B4.BA.A$7.
8B7.A$7.8B7.2A$7.7B$8.8B$8.3B3.2A$9.B4.A$15.3A$17.A!

[Gustavo6046]

Please help, what can put a boat in that location?

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
24.3D$25.D$25.3D8$2A$.A28.2A$.A.A26.2A$2.2A5$20.D$19.3C$19.CDC$16.D2.
C2.C$15.D.D3.2C$15.2D2$11.2A$10.A.A$10.A$9.2A!

[dvgrn]

Please help, what can put a boat in that location?

Lots of things, but nothing simple. The only two-glider boat synthesis doesn't fit there, thanks to the nearby eater.

There are bound to be plenty of three-glider solutions, but it isn't likely to be worth synchronizing three gliders to salvage this reaction.

Also, before we even get to worrying about where the boat will come from, the biggest worry is how the active reaction (century) is going to be created, that is supposed to interact with the boat. There's no hint in your diagram about what conduit you might use to drop a century in that location.

When you're doing these explorations, it's much safer to start with the output of a specific known conduit, at least when you're starting out. Otherwise it's really easy to waste a lot of time, putting a lot of work into something that it turns out to be impossible to use. It also tells you which boat syntheses or boat factories might actually be able to reach in between the output conduit and your proposed new conduit.

It looks to me as if, in the best possible case, you might be able to sneak the century in from the side (if you could find an input pi for the PF39C conduit).

However, the way a century is usually formed, it will interact with the boat one tick before your diagram.

So I think you'd have a hard time getting the boat to produce the reaction you want, even if you succeeded in putting it there. You can get other reactions --

Code: Select all

x = 46, y = 36, rule = LifeHistory
24.3D$25.D$25.3D8$2A$.A28.2A$.A.A26.2A$2.2A$34.2A$33.B2AB$34.3B5.2B$
27.2B2.2B2.B2.2B.5B$23.B.21B$19.3D.22B$19.D.D.11B3C8B$16.C2.D2.D11BCB
C7B$15.C.C3.2D11BCBC7B$15.2C6.18B2.BA$29.B13.A.A$11.2A15.A.A13.2A$10.
A.A14.A.2A$10.A16.A$9.2A15.2A2$20.3D$20.D$19.3D2$20.2C$20.2C!

-- but you've still used up a century and a boat, and gotten nothing out but a block and a Herschel. Boats are expensive to rebuild, so that's a fairly large step in the wrong direction.

(The above pattern shows Herschel+block->boat, down at the bottom at the end. But the block and boat aren't in the right relative locations to fix the previous problem... so really trying to make that work would just give you more headaches.)