Let's create an alien biosphere!

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Then how would the equivalent of mitochondria form? Or at least something that can supply energy quickly.

Some of the organisms already have electron transport chains.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Some of the organisms already have electron transport chains.

Would that be enough? We have it on Earth too, but I don't think we could survive without mitochonsria.

[MathAndCode]

Would that be enough? We have it on Earth too, but I don't think we could survive without mitochonsria.

There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.

How do you think it might form then?

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There just needs to be some membrane-bound organelle. It doesn't need to be from another species.

How do you think it might form then?

Probably mutation.

[MathAndCode]

How do you think it might form then?

I'm not very concerned about that. After all, it formed in the prokaryotic ancestors of mitochondria. One possibility is that they evolved to use carbon compounds, such as methane, to reduce sulfate back to sulfite, took advantage of the energy released, then started reducing sulfate further in order to release more energy per sulfate anion.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Probably mutation.

But you can't really have a simple mutation that just creates a mitochondria analogue out of nowhere. Evolution doesn't happen just by mutation.

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Probably mutation.

But you can't really have a simple mutation that just creates a mitochondria analogue out of nowhere. Evolution doesn't happen just by mutation.

I know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?If yes,we should also assume something was present here.

[MathAndCode]

I know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?

No, prokaryotes don't have mitochondria.

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I know,but it could be a mutation of some older,now little useful part. Did all organisms ever had mitochondria (except maybe some very old) or not?

No, prokaryotes don't have mitochondria.

I think the only solution is smaller organisms then.

[MathAndCode]

I think the only solution is smaller organisms then.

Organelles dedicated to oxidative phosphorylation (or, in our case, oxidative sulfurylation) can provide the organism with enough energy whether or not they are derived from another organism.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

I'm not very concerned about that. After all, it formed in the prokaryotic ancestors of mitochondria. One possibility is that they evolved to use carbon compounds, such as methane, to reduce sulfate back to sulfite, took advantage of the energy released, then started reducing sulfate further in order to release more energy per sulfate anion.

Can you write the reaction they use to do that please?

[MathAndCode]

Can you write the reaction they use to do that please?

which reaction?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

which reaction?

The one where they use carbon compounds to reduce sulfate to sulfite. You don't have to specify the exact carbon compound though.

[MathAndCode]

The one where they use carbon compounds to reduce sulfate to sulfite. You don't have to specify the exact carbon compound though.

SO₄²⁻+CO→SO₃²⁻+CO₂ for example

[Schiaparelliorbust]

SO₄²⁻+CO→SO₃²⁻+CO₂ for example

I still don't get what you originally wrote though. Can you explain it a bit more?

[MathAndCode]

I still don't get what you originally wrote though. Can you explain it a bit more?

Species can evolve electron transport chains themselves instead of having to engulf organisms from other species.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Species can evolve electron transport chains themselves instead of having to engulf organisms from other species.

So now what would happen? Also, Biblaridion uploaded Alien Biospheres episode 10 today.

[MathAndCode]

So now what would happen?

Would dioxygen levels be high enough yet for those organisms to use dioxygen for oxidative sulfurylation?

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Would dioxygen levels be high enough yet for those organisms to use dioxygen for oxidative sulfurylation?

What is that exactly? I could only find oxidative phosphorylation and sulfurylation/sulfation. Is it just the former but with sulfur instead of phosphorus? If yes, then my answer to your question is yes. Bacteria don't need a lot of oxygen on Earth to survive AFAIK.

[MathAndCode]

What is that exactly? I could only find oxidative phosphorylation and sulfurylation/sulfation. Is it just the former but with sulfur instead of phosphorus? If yes, then my answer to your question is yes.

Yes, it's just phosphorylation but with sulfate instead of phosphate. If it's high enough, the organisms will electron transport chains will likely preferentially reduce it over sulfate because doing so won't deplete their sulfate.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Yes, it's just phosphorylation but with sulfate instead of phosphate. If it's high enough, the organisms will electron transport chains will likely preferentially reduce it over sulfate because doing so won't deplete their sulfate.

Then you're saying they might evolve oxidative phosphorylation? Also, what else did they need sulfate for?

[MathAndCode]

Then you're saying they might evolve oxidative phosphorylation? Also, what else did they need sulfate for?

Sulfate serves a role analogous to phosphate in Earth life.

[Schiaparelliorbust]

Sulfate serves a role analogous to phosphate in Earth life.

So now that there's enough oxygen for oxidative sulfurylation they will proliferate. They will live near the oceans' surface., and more in cooler areas because oxygen dissolves better in cold water.

I would like to get started with multicellular life soon if possible.

[MathAndCode]

I would like to get started with multicellular life soon if possible.

We can do that as soon as we finish covering the increased biodiversity caused by hydrothermal vents near the surface.