Suggested LifeWiki edits

[hotdogPi]

Observations (from left to right in the following RLE):
• The P47 century hassler could not only be stabilized by a dot spark, but also an eater 1 reaction

The P47 century hassler used in the new p47 gun is not yet on the Wiki.

That's because it can't stand on its own. It needs a huge contraption to work.

[WhiteHawk]

That's because it can't stand on its own. It needs a huge contraption to work.

What is it's smallest form?

[hotdogPi]

It is smallest form is most likely this.

Code: Select all

x = 127, y = 127, rule = B3/S23
89bo7bo$88bobo5bobo$89bo7bo3$90bo5bo$89bobo3bobo$83b3o15b3o$89b3o3b3o$
80b2o23b2o$79bobo23bobo$79bo27bo$78b2o27b2o2$85b2o13b2o$85b2o13b2o2$
61b2o15b2o27b2o$62bo16bo27bo$12bo4bo40b2o2bob2o13bobo23bobo$10b3o4b3o
38bobobobo2bo12b2o23b2o$9bo10bo39bo2bo2b2o21b3o3b3o$9b2o8b2o38b2o22b3o
15b3o$89bobo3bobo$7bo14bo67bo5bo$7bo14bo$7bo6b2o6bo30b2o6b2o13b2o$14b
2o37bo6bo2bo11bo2bo10bo7bo$10b2o6b2o30b2obo6bo3bo11bob2o8bobo5bobo$bo
26bo22bob2o6bo2bo12b2o10bo7bo$obo4bo14bo4bobo21bo9bo2bo$bo4b2o14b2o4bo
23b5o5b2o$7bo14bo26b3o4bo$48bo3bobo22b2o$49b2obob2o20bo2bo$50bobo21b2o
b2o4b2o$7bo14bo26bo2b4o6b2o10b2ob2o2bo2bo$bo4b2o14b2o4bo20bobo3bo6b2o
12bo4b3o$obo4bo14bo4bobo20bob3o21b2o$bo26bo23bo23b2o3b2obob2o$10b2o6b
2o19b2o9bobo4b3o16b2o4bob2obo$14b2o23bo10b2o5bo24bo$7bo6b2o6bo17bo17bo
22b2o$7bo14bo12b2o2b2o$7bo14bo12bobo26bo$37bob4o21bobo$9b2o8b2o15b2obo
2bo21b2o$9bo10bo72bo$10b3o4b3o69b2obobo$12bo4bo10b2o3b2o50b2obo2b2obo
3bo$26b2obo3bob2o2b2o44bo3bo4bob3o$26b3o7bo2b2o29bo15b3ob4obo$34b3o32b
2o17bobo4bob4o$69bobo16bobob2obobo2bo$89b2obo2bo$94b2o$52bobo$27b2o23b
2o30b3o19b2o$53bo32bo17bo2bo$85bo12b2o4b3o$20b2o77bo9bo$21bo23bo43b2o
4b2ob2o6b4o$19bo23bobo43b2o5bobo6bo$19b2o8bo14b2o35b2o14bo8b2o$21bo6bo
bo5b2o43bobo23bo$17b4o6b2ob2o4b2o43bo23bo$17bo9bo77b2o$20b3o4b2o12bo$
19bo2bo17bo32bo$19b2o19b3o30b2o23b2o$72bobo$31b2o$31bo2bob2o$26bo2bobo
b2obobo16bobo$26b4obo4bobo17b2o32b3o$31bob4ob3o15bo29b2o2bo7b3o$28b3ob
o4bo3bo44b2o2b2obo3bob2o$28bo3bob2o2bob2o50b2o3b2o10bo4bo$32bobob2o69b
3o4b3o$33bo72bo10bo$61b2o21bo2bob2o15b2o8b2o$60bobo21b4obo$62bo26bobo
12bo14bo$86b2o2b2o12bo14bo$44b2o22bo17bo17bo6b2o6bo$44bo24bo5b2o10bo
23b2o$39bob2obo4b2o16b3o4bobo9b2o19b2o6b2o$39b2obob2o3b2o23bo23bo26bo$
49b2o21b3obo20bobo4bo14bo4bobo$43b3o4bo12b2o6bo3bobo20bo4b2o14b2o4bo$
42bo2bo2b2ob2o10b2o6b4o2bo26bo14bo$42b2o4b2ob2o21bobo$47bo2bo20b2obob
2o$48b2o22bobo3bo$70bo4b3o26bo14bo$63b2o5b5o23bo4b2o14b2o4bo$62bo2bo9b
o21bobo4bo14bo4bobo$29bo7bo10b2o12bo2bo6b2obo22bo26bo$28bobo5bobo8b2ob
o11bo3bo6bob2o30b2o6b2o$29bo7bo10bo2bo11bo2bo6bo37b2o$49b2o13b2o6b2o
30bo6b2o6bo$104bo14bo$30bo5bo67bo14bo$29bobo3bobo$23b3o15b3o22b2o38b2o
8b2o$29b3o3b3o21b2o2bo2bo39bo10bo$20b2o23b2o12bo2bobobobo38b3o4b3o$19b
obo23bobo13b2obo2b2o40bo4bo$19bo27bo16bo$18b2o27b2o15b2o2$25b2o13b2o$
25b2o13b2o2$18b2o27b2o$19bo27bo$19bobo23bobo$20b2o23b2o$29b3o3b3o$23b
3o15b3o$29bobo3bobo$30bo5bo3$29bo7bo$28bobo5bobo$29bo7bo!

[WhiteHawk]

It is smallest form is most likely this.

Code: Select all

That is big. Still, the Century hasslers page doesn't list 47 as a period at which Century Hasslers exist, which is incorrect.

[confocaloid]

I doubt that it's a good idea for hasslers pages to even attempt listing *all* hasslers (rather than just *notable* ones, LW:NB). See viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6290 for earlier discussion.

It is smallest form is most likely this.

Code: Select all

That is big. Still, the Century hasslers page doesn't list 47 as a period at which Century Hasslers exist, which is incorrect.

[C28]

I doubt that it's a good idea for hasslers pages to even attempt listing *all* hasslers (rather than just *notable* ones, LW:NB). See viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6290 for earlier discussion.

then what's the point in even having such pages?

[confocaloid]

I doubt that it's a good idea for hasslers pages to even attempt listing *all* hasslers (rather than just *notable* ones, LW:NB). See viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6290 for earlier discussion.

then what's the point in even having such pages?

To have a way of showing several "interesting" (TBD what that means) hasslers, without going into the trouble of creating a whole separate page for every single one?

Really, I think grouping by period would be better (well-defined and unambiguous), compared to grouping by "hassled object type" (which can be vague). Create one page for every period that is neither too low nor too high, and then maybe have sections for different types of oscillators.

[dvgrn]

It is smallest form is most likely this.

x = 127, y = 127, rule = B3/S23 ...

Just for a change, a trombone-slide adjustment with a couple of Snarks doesn't have to be painfully long to work:

Code: Select all

x = 108, y = 98, rule = LifeHistory
42.2A$41.A.A$35.2A4.A$33.A2.A2.2A.4A$33.2A.A.A.A.A2.A$36.A.ABABAB$36.
A.AB2AB$37.AB.2B$40.3B$40.4B6.2A$38.3B2AB6.A$38.3B2AB3.BA.A$36.10B.B2A
$35.6BA6B$34.6B2A6B$19.A13.7BABA5B$19.3A10.4B2.8B$22.A8.4B5.6B$21.2A7.
A3B4.9B$21.5B3.A3B5.2A4.4B26.A$23.3B2.B3A7.A5.4B21.2A.A.A$13.2A7.8B6.
3A7.4B16.2A.A2.2A.A3.A$13.A8.8B6.A10.4B15.A3.A4.A.3A$10.2A.A.B3.A9B19.
4B15.3A.4A.A$10.A2.2A2B.B2A8B20.4B16.A.A2.B.A.4A$11.2A2.AB2AB2A7B21.2B
2A15.ABAB2A.A.A2.A$13.2A14B22.BABA12.3B2ABAB.A$13.A.AB3.7B.B2A21.A3B11.
3B.4B2A3.B$14.ABAB2.7B.BA.A21.4B9.4B3.3B3.3B$17.A3.2BA2B5.A22.4B7.4B5.
B3.4B5.2A$12.5A5.2B2A5.2A22.4B5.A3B7.5B2AB.BA2.A$12.A10.2A2B29.4B3.B2A
B7.9B.B3A$14.A9.4B29.4B.BABA5.5B2AB2ABA2B5.A$13.2A10.4B29.7B5.2A4BA2B
2ABA4B4A$25.5B29.5B6.2A7BA5B.A$27.4B28.5B7.B.11B3.2A$27.5B26.7B9.10B4.
A$29.4B24.4B.2B2A8.9B3.A$30.4B22.4B3.2A2B8.6B5.2A$31.4B20.4B5.BA2B7.3A
BAB$32.4B18.4B7.4B5.B2AB2AB$33.3BA16.4B9.4B5.2B2A2B$34.ABAB14.2A2B11.
4B5.5B$35.2A2B12.ABAB13.4B3.B.2B$36.4B10.3BA15.4B2.5B$37.4B8.4B17.5B3A
B.B$38.4B6.4B16.2B.4B3A5B$39.4B4.4B16.2A5BA3BA4B$40.4B2.4B17.2AB.3B2A
B2A4B$41.8B19.B.13B7.A4.A$42.6B22.14B4.3A4.3A$43.4B22.5B.10B2.A10.A$42.
6B17.A2.A.2AB2.9B3.2A8.2A$41.5BABA16.4A.A4.8B.5B8.5B$40.2A2B2.B2AB20.
A.A3.5B3.3B12.3B$26.2A11.2B2A4.A3B16.2A2.2A4.4B2.B3AB10.B3AB$26.A11.2B
AB6.4B5.2A8.A15.5B4.2A4.5B$21.A.2A.A4.2A4.4B8.5B2.A.A9.A14.6B3.2A3.6B
$21.2A.A.2A2.B2AB2.4B10.4B2.A10.2A14.5BAB6.BA5B$28.B2.3B.4B12.3B3A.A20.
AB3.3B3A6B3A3B3.BA$25.3A3B.B.4B7.2A6.AB2.A.A18.A.A5BABABA4BABABA5BA.A
$24.A2.A9B7.B2AB4.B4A2.A19.A5B3AB3A2B3AB3A5BA$24.2A.9B9.3B4.3B.A.A21.
B.4BABABA4BABABA4B.B$28.7B9.4B3.2B2A.A.2A23.4B3A6B3A4B$29.2B2A2B4.B2.
7B.4BABA3.A$26.5BABA3B.12B.BA4.3A23.4B3A6B3A4B$25.8BA2B.2B3A4B2A2B2.5A
23.B.4BABABA4BABABA4B.B$24.7BABA5BA5BABA2B7.A21.A5B3AB3A2B3AB3A5BA$11.
A7.A4.7B2A6B3A9B3.2A.A20.A.A5BABABA4BABABA5BA.A$10.A.A5.A.A3.10B.B.3B
4A3BA4B3.A.2A20.AB3.3B3A6B3A3B3.BA$10.BA2B3.2BAB3.11B2.4B4A3BA4B2.A27.
5BAB6.BA5B$11.2B5.2B6.8B8.4A2BA3B2.2A27.6B3.2A3.6B$11.3B3.3B6.8B8.4A2B
AB33.5B4.2A4.5B$6.4B.4B.4B.4B2.3B13.BABAB35.B3AB10.B3AB$4.2BA8B.8BA2B
.B16.5B34.3B12.3B$4.2BA8B.8BA2B19.B.2A34.5B8.5B$4.2BA5BA2B.2BA5BA2B14.
2A2.AB.A38.2A8.2A$2.2AB.5B3AB.B3A5B.B2A12.A2.A.A.A.A36.A10.A$.A.AB3.2B
2AB2A.2AB2A2B3.BA.A13.2A.A2.2A37.3A4.3A$.A7.2B3AB.B3A2B7.A16.A43.A4.A
$2A8.2BA2B.2BA2B8.2A15.2A$10.5B.5B$7.2A.5B.5B.2A$7.2A.5B.5B.2A$10.5B.
5B$2A8.2BA2B.2BA2B8.2A$.A7.2B3AB.B3A2B7.A$.A.AB3.2B2AB2A.2AB2A2B3.BA.
A$2.2AB.5B3AB.B3A5B.B2A$4.2BA5BA2B.2BA5BA2B$4.2BA8B.8BA2B$4.2BA8B.8BA
2B$6.4B.4B.4B.4B$11.3B3.3B$11.2B5.2B$10.BA2B3.2BAB$10.A.A5.A.A$11.A7.
A!

[WhiteHawk]

Just for a change, a trombone-slide adjustment with a couple of Snarks doesn't have to be painfully long to work:

Code: Select all

That's not so bad now, though it still is a little bulky-looking.

Still, what should be done in instances like this where there exists a hassler for a specific evolutionary sequence at a certain period, though it doesn't merit placement on the wiki page due to bulkiness. Currently the Century hasslers page suggests no p47 hassler exists.

Century hasslers

[confocaloid]

mention two different placements of eater 1s (I think the infobox should be changed, but I don't want to do that without discussion

I think that particular variant should instead be shown in an embedded viewer, immediately after the added sentence, like this:

[...]
The eater 1s can be placed on either side of the blinkers. Placing them on the inside provides a spark with better clearance:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
12bo4bo$10b3o4b3o$9bo10bo$10bo8bo$6bo3bo8bo3bo2$6bobo12bobo$7bo6b2o6bo
$14b2o2$bo7bo10bo7bo$obo5bob2o6b2obo5bobo$bo8b2o6b2o8bo$9b3o6b3o4$9b3o
6b3o$bo8b2o6b2o8bo$obo5bob2o6b2obo5bobo$bo7bo10bo7bo2$14b2o$7bo6b2o6bo
$6bobo12bobo2$6bo3bo8bo3bo$10bo8bo$9bo10bo$10b3o4b3o$12bo4bo!

[...]

While the infobox will stay unchanged.

Note that the added sentence mentions "a spark with better clearance", therefore it makes sense to show the phase with the spark in the embedded viewer. Note that that cannot be done in the infobox, as the infobox shows a minimum-population phase, and in this case the phase with the spark isn't a minimum-population phase.

[hotdogPi]

The variant can be seen in the two viewers lower down that are hassling other objects.

[confocaloid]

The variant can be seen in the two viewers lower down that are hassling other objects.

Those viewers are animated (I'm not sure whether the animation helps or distracts in those cases). If the goal is to show the spark, it may be preferable to add a non-animated single-phase pattern.

[Vort]

Gallery on Quinti-Snark page suggests following p3 sparker:

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 24, rule = B3/S23
13b2o2$3b2o3bob2o4b2obo3b2o$2bo3bobo3b4o3bobo3bo$2bobo5bo2b2o2bo5bobo$
b2o6b2o2b2o2b2o6b2o$o2b3o4b2o4b2o4b3o2bo$2o4b3o3b4o3b3o4b2o$2b3ob3o10b
3ob3o$2o5bo4b4o4bo5b2o$bobo3b2o10b2o3bobo$o2b3o3bo2bo2bo2bo3b3o2bo$b2o
3b2o3b6o3b2o3b2o$2bobo4b2o2b2o2b2o4bobo$2bob2obobo3b2o3bobob2obo$b2o2b
ob5o4b5obo2b2o$o2bob2o4b6o4b2obo2bo$bobobobobo8bobobobobo$2obo6b3o2b3o
6bob2o$3b2o2b2o3bo2bo3b2o2b2o$2obo2bo2b3o4b3o2bo2bob2o$o3b2o2bo10bo2b
2o3bo$b3o5b3o4b3o5b3o$3bo7bo4bo7bo!

Wouldn't it be better to replace it with this one?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
5bo10bo$4bobo3b2o3bobo$4bobo8bobo$3b2ob3o4b3ob2o$4bobo2b4o2bobo$2bo3b
2o2b2o2b2obo$bob3o2bob2obo2bo$bo4b2o6b2o$2o3bo2b6o$5b2o3bo2bo!

My previous suggestions got zero response, is anyone interested in these optimizations at all? Should I post more?

[WhiteHawk]

Gallery on Quinti-Snark page suggests following p3 sparker:

Code: Select all

Wouldn't it be better to replace it with this one?

Code: Select all

I believe the one in there is one was used for a previous incarnation(s) of the P57 Glider Gun, which has sufficient clearance to be useful and, as far as I know, hasn't been reduced beyond certain welds used in the current version.

So, I would say if it's clearance could be much improved, then perhaps it would be notable enough for mention. Until then, probably not.

EDIT: it seems there were several reductions to that sparker in the past for the p57, some similar to this one, though still of much higher clearance.

[confocaloid]

[...]
My previous suggestions got zero response, is anyone interested in these optimizations at all? Should I post more?

A significant number of people are interested in such possibilities. It's just that many of those people are busy with something other than "being a LifeWiki editor", and vice-versa, the currently active wiki editors may or may not understand/be interested in these suggestions.

Do you think it would be possible to make a stamp collection of some sort, for this specific topic, showing what possibilities exist? Maybe that would have more chances of changing the situation, compared to posting them one at a time.

[dvgrn]

My previous suggestions got zero response, is anyone interested in these optimizations at all? Should I post more?

Long story short -- sure, please post more!

The general rule of thumb that I use is that if a variant of something is "useful" in the sense of allowing a bounding-box improvement to the glider-gun collection, or something similar where we're collectively tracking bounding-box size ... then it probably can be safely added on the appropriate LifeWiki page, at least to the gallery section of variants.

(Looks like you've used the variant you posted here, just a few hours ago, among other places.)

[Vort]

I believe the one in there is one was used for a previous incarnation(s) of the P57 Glider Gun, which has sufficient clearance to be useful and, as far as I know, hasn't been reduced beyond certain welds used in the current version.

So, I would say if it's clearance could be much improved, then perhaps it would be notable enough for mention. Until then, probably not.

EDIT: it seems there were several reductions to that sparker in the past for the p57, some similar to this one, though still of much higher clearance.

I'm talking not about better p3 sparker in general, but better specifically for quinti-Snark.
Was quinti-Snark used for p57 gun? I can't find it right away.

[WhiteHawk]

I'm talking not about better p3 sparker in general, but better specifically for quinti-Snark.
Was quinti-Snark used for p57 gun? I can't find it right away.

Ah. I thought you were talking about the sparker, and jumped over the part about it being quinti-Snark.

[get_Snacked]

besides in Lifeline and RLE comments, change all occurrences of "gen" on the wiki to "generation"?

[confocaloid]

besides in Lifeline and RLE comments, change all occurrences of "gen" on the wiki to "generation"?

Or "tick", when that captures the intended meaning better.
AFAICT "tick" carries the meaning of "passing from one generation to the next generation", while "generation" is a pattern of cells at a specific time. In a sense, ticks happen "between" generations.

[get_Snacked]

AFAICT "tick" carries the meaning of "passing from one generation to the next generation", while "generation" is a pattern of cells at a specific time. In a sense, ticks happen "between" generations.

Life Lexicon says:

:tick = generation

[dvgrn]

Life Lexicon says:

:tick = generation

Previous discussion of this point can be found here.

EDIT after confocaloid's following post: this still doesn't seem like an interesting topic to get into an argument about, unless someone actually starts substituting "tick" for "gen" in some LifeWiki articles according to confocaloid's theory that "generation" and "tick" aren't synonyms. However, since confocaloid is quoting one side of the previous discussion below, here's what I said at the time:

The question of whether or not "tick" and "generation" are synonyms ... doesn't seem to need another post from me, since no editing questions hinge on it at the moment. I'll just add a few links here in case there's further discussion in the future: it looks to me more like "tick" and "generation" are synonyms, but that "tick" is more commonly used in some situations and "generation" is more commonly used in other situations.

Usually if "generation" is used in a situation where "tick" is more common, it's readily understood and no one complains that the term is being misused -- example 1, example 2, example 3. Substitutions in the other direction also happen without confusion or objection, though maybe that's even rarer -- example 4 -- possibly partly because the "T = {N}" syntax attracts anyone who might want to say "tick {N}" in place of "generation {N}".

[confocaloid]

AFAICT "tick" carries the meaning of "passing from one generation to the next generation", while "generation" is a pattern of cells at a specific time. In a sense, ticks happen "between" generations.

Life Lexicon says:

:tick = generation

Life Lexicon is focused on words and phrases, sometimes at the expense of ideas behind those words and phrases.
In contrast, LifeWiki aims to collect and explain existing ideas and knowledge.

In this case, the difference between 'tick' and 'generation' is important for a Lifenthusiast who is trying to understand things, despite apparently being hard to grasp for a lexicographer who is focused on "common usage" at the expense of understanding:

I believe the two terms have different meanings. In my understanding, in Life/CA-related discussions the word 'tick' usually refers to a step between two generations of a pattern (for example, going from a phase of an oscillator to the next phase), while the word 'generation' usually refers to just one phase. For example, 'the generation T = 0', 'the tick from T = 0 to T = 1'.

Are there any example uses that bear out either of those examples? [...]

I posted those specific examples to illustrate the difference between meanings. Here are some previous examples from forum posts by others (I quoted parts that contain forms of words 'tick' and 'generation'):

[...] Obviously, the eight-tick predecessor that I found would be extremely unlikely to actually occur, but even the six-tick predecessor looks mostly decent, and some variations of that six-cell predecessor that also work, such as 5bo$2bo$b4o$o$b2o$2b2o$4bo2bo$5bobo, look very plausible. Even the seven-tick predecessor bears a strong resemblance to generation thirteen of the B-heptomino, so it's possible that this can be made in a similar way, although getting around the tub could be tricky.

[...] Here is a version that has the same population and lasts for two generations longer: [...]

[...]

1279-tick 15x14 diehard: [...]
1281-tick 16x16 diehard: [...]
1761-tick 32x32 symmetric diehard: [...]
16x16 52514M, one generation better than the current record-holder: [...]

A two-glider octomino has 41 matches in the 12x12-1G-octohash database, its child and grandchild having 125 and 148 respectively. The count of results keeps increasing, as expected when evolving the input pattern further, and for the 28-tick descendant it reaches 281.

However, from generation 145 on, the count starts to decrease, and at 251 it drops to 0. This means that there is no 12x12-1G-octohash result for the octomino ash (constellation xp2_yj2552z696ycezy0888y41110s0111zw70ggg07yh696zzybg8gzyb121).

A similar trend is also found on the following evolutionary sequence with a 673-tick lifespan, but not on pi-heptomino or lumps of muck:

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
4bo$o2bo$obo$3o!

Why?

Even though Life Lexicon claims 'tick = generation', I believe the two words are usually used in different ways. There's a useful distinction between (a) some generation (a pattern) versus (b) evolving that pattern for one tick to reach the next generation.

[FlutterWithKSparkler]

Category:Pages needing cleanup states that "Template {{cleanup}} automatically adds pages to this category", but at the moment (see archived copy) there are excessively many pages in the category without explicit inclusion of said template. Please verify if all of the 1,282 pages in the category are unanimously agreed to "require cleanup to meet LifeWiki's quality standards", or if a bug is affecting common elements of these pages like a pattern template.

[confocaloid]

Category:Pages needing cleanup states that "Template {{cleanup}} automatically adds pages to this category", but at the moment (see archived copy) there are excessively many pages in the category without explicit inclusion of said template. Please verify if all of the 1,282 pages in the category are unanimously agreed to "require cleanup to meet LifeWiki's quality standards", or if a bug is affecting common elements of these pages like a pattern template.

It is intentional. Several criteria trigger inclusion of pages in that category.

• Pages where the caption of an embedded viewer contains explicit HTML breaks are automatically placed in category "Pages needing cleanup". As a rule, captions should either avoid forcing any linebreaks (automatic word wrap only), or else explicitly state the intention to enforce word wrap in this specific place by using a template Template:br instead of the raw HTML markup.
• Pages with the "rulespecial" parameter in the infobox (which is deprecated and disabled) specified are automatically placed in category "Pages needing cleanup".
  Old discussion: LifeWiki:Tiki_bar#Back_into_the_Future_of_the_rulespecial_parameter
  Note that Tiki bar is no longer used, and replaced by the subforum "LifeWiki Discussion".