Thread for basic questions

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Sokwe » January 30th, 2025, 2:08 am

WhiteHawk wrote:
January 29th, 2025, 9:52 am
What is the smallest c/2 ship by population with a constant population [in Life]?
I don't know if it's the smallest, but there's an 83-cell example:

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
6b3o$5bo2bo3bo$4bo3b2ob3o$3b2ob2obo3b2o$2bobobobo2bo2b2o$b2o3bobobo3bo
$o3bobobo5b2o$3bo4bo3bobob2o$2o5bobob2obobo$6bo2bobobo2bob2o$6bo4bob2o
bob2o$8bo2bo2bobo2bo$6b2o8bo2b2o$11b2o7bo$15b2o2bobo!
It would take a little bit of work, but here's how you can find the answer: download the JSON database of all possible period-2 ships up to 98 cells from this post, and write a little Golly Python or Lua script to one-by-one paste them into an empty Life universe and run them each for one generation to see if the populations of the two phases match.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Sylvani » January 30th, 2025, 4:46 pm

Is there a good explanation for how search programs work using pseudocode? I am having trouble understanding most of the papers

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Sokwe » January 30th, 2025, 8:46 pm

Sylvani wrote:
January 30th, 2025, 4:46 pm
Is there a good explanation for how search programs work using pseudocode? I am having trouble understanding most of the papers
I don't know of any explanations using pseudocode. Most search programs are complicated enough that I think the pseudocode would either be excessively long or would be simplified so much as to basically not be pseudocode anymore. Papers like Searching for Spaceships really are about as good as you'll get for a comprehensive description of a search method. If you're having trouble understanding how a particular search method works, you could try asking about the parts that are confusing you here on the forums (in the relevant topics in the scripts forum).
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by islptng » February 1st, 2025, 5:54 am

How to convert this HROT into INT?

Code: Select all

#C Found in MCell and manually converted into HROT notation
x = 8, y = 9, rule = R1,C0,S2-4,9-11,19-20,B11,18,NW090109010001090109
2o$2b3o$2o3b2o$4b3o$2bo4bo$4b3o$2o3b2o$2b3o$2o!
B2cn3ajkr/Swhat?

============================

How does this work?
Extrementhusiast wrote:
January 5th, 2016, 10:03 pm

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by pifricted » February 1st, 2025, 6:10 am

islptng wrote:
February 1st, 2025, 5:54 am
How to convert this HROT into INT?

Code: Select all

#C Found in MCell and manually converted into HROT notation
x = 8, y = 9, rule = R1,C0,S2-4,9-11,19-20,B11,18,NW090109010001090109
2o$2b3o$2o3b2o$4b3o$2bo4bo$4b3o$2o3b2o$2b3o$2o!
B2cn3ajkr/Swhat?
B2cn3ajkr/S1c2-c34aikqtwz

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 9, rule = B2cn3ajkr/S1c2-c34aikqtwz
2o$2b3o$2o3b2o$4b3o$2bo4bo$4b3o$2o3b2o$2b3o$2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » February 2nd, 2025, 5:25 pm

Tawal wrote:
January 26th, 2025, 10:51 am
I known that there is a stable Highway Robber (with a high RT).
But is there a periodic Highway Robber that works whatever the timing of the Glider ?
silversmith wrote:
January 28th, 2025, 9:09 am
[...] There is almost certainly no known example. Nearly all periodic circuitry is sensitive to the period of the incoming glider, and as far as I know, there are no useful examples in CGOL. [...]
It should be possible to engineer a proof-of-concept highway robber, using some "functionally stable stateless" components that aren't stable. For example, the recovery mechanism could involve the p8 glider reflector or HRx74B. That would work "whatever the timing of the Glider", despite being a periodic device.

I don't know whether this approach can lead to a record-beating "functionally stable highway robber" design, though. There might be some trick to make a smaller or faster device, but I don't see anything obvious.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by pifricted » February 5th, 2025, 5:54 am

Do this tiling have a name?

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 34, rule = B/SHHistory
5.4A$5.4A.D$5.4A.2D$5.4A.3D$10.4D$4A2.4E.3D$4A.D.4E.2D$4A.2D.4E.D$4A.
3D.4E$5.4D$.4E.3D.4A$2.4E.2D.4A.D$3.4E.D.4A.2D$4.4E2.4A.3D$15.4D$5.4A
2.4E.3D.4A$5.4A.D.4E.2D.4A.D$5.4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D$5.4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D$10.
4D11.4D$4A2.4E.3D.4A2.4E.3D$4A.D.4E.2D.4A.D.4E.2D$4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D.4E
.D$4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D.4E$5.4D11.4D$.4E.3D.4A2.4E.3D.4A$2.4E.2D.4A.D.4E.2D
.4A.D$3.4E.D.4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D$4.4E2.4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D$15.4D11.4D$11.4E.
3D7.4E.3D$12.4E.2D8.4E.2D$13.4E.D9.4E.D$14.4E11.4E!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » February 5th, 2025, 6:25 am

pifricted wrote:
February 5th, 2025, 5:54 am
Do this tiling have a name?

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 34, rule = B/SHHistory
5.4A$5.4A.D$5.4A.2D$5.4A.3D$10.4D$4A2.4E.3D$4A.D.4E.2D$4A.2D.4E.D$4A.
3D.4E$5.4D$.4E.3D.4A$2.4E.2D.4A.D$3.4E.D.4A.2D$4.4E2.4A.3D$15.4D$5.4A
2.4E.3D.4A$5.4A.D.4E.2D.4A.D$5.4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D$5.4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D$10.
4D11.4D$4A2.4E.3D.4A2.4E.3D$4A.D.4E.2D.4A.D.4E.2D$4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D.4E
.D$4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D.4E$5.4D11.4D$.4E.3D.4A2.4E.3D.4A$2.4E.2D.4A.D.4E.2D
.4A.D$3.4E.D.4A.2D.4E.D.4A.2D$4.4E2.4A.3D.4E2.4A.3D$15.4D11.4D$11.4E.
3D7.4E.3D$12.4E.2D8.4E.2D$13.4E.D9.4E.D$14.4E11.4E!
It looks like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhombille_tiling

Image
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by WhiteHawk » February 7th, 2025, 5:03 am

After 31c/240 tech like Water Strider, what is the next smallest self-supported spaceship, and how large is it compared to LV window?
Mostly work in OCA, where discoveries are a dime a dozen. Will eventually get around to running search programs. Discoveries in Life limited to True-period 56 gun on a technicality.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 7th, 2025, 7:22 am

WhiteHawk wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 5:03 am
After 31c/240 tech like Water Strider, what is the next smallest self-supported spaceship, and how large is it compared to LV window?
At 13295 × 28010, the waterbear is tiny compared with most other self-supporting spaceships. If you split the 684K RLE in half, the two chunks will fit in two LifeViewer windows in a single forum post.*

It's actually somewhat possible that biggiemac learned enough in the process of building the waterbear, that the tricks used in the third triangle -- and/or maybe some new tricks, who knows? -- could be applied to a complete rebuild of the waterbear, that might knock the size down below 16384^2.

It's also certainly not impossible that waterbear tech might go through a big enough revolution to allow a really huge reduction in size and end up smaller than the water strider. Oblique waterbear math is much trickier than orthogonal 31c/240 math, though, and it's hard to predict where inspiration will strike next!

* The waterbear would even technically fit in LifeViewer if there were such a thing as a [[ MAXGRIDSIZE 15 ]] setting. Who knows, maybe that will be possible and no worse performance-wise than the current MAXGRIDSIZE 14, after the next round or three of LifeViewer improvements.

However, posts like that -- close to the 999,999-byte limit -- are still not really a great idea, due to page-load problems. Or at least, they involve trade-offs and therefore should be used sparingly. Big patterns in LifeViewer cause some people fairly big page-load problems, while those problems remain close to invisible to other people. So I'm guessing that at this point it might be better not to encourage that kind of thing with a MAXGRIDSIZE 15 setting.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » February 7th, 2025, 7:51 am

dvgrn wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 7:22 am
[...] However, posts like that -- close to the 999,999-byte limit -- are still not really a great idea, due to page-load problems. Or at least, they involve trade-offs and therefore should be used sparingly. [...]
In addition to page-load problems, there are often issues because it is hard to quote part of a very long post.

Sometimes people end up quoting the entire long post, which leads to unwanted duplication of content (and goes against the forum rule 3d "... only quote text that is actually relevant to your post ...").

Sometimes people are even posting very large patterns that appear to be (pseudo)random. That should be unnecessary in almost all cases.

The current default limit in LifeViewer is 8192 by 8192 cells. I think it is a reasonably good default. At the point when the pattern is large enough to require [[ MAXGRIDSIZE 14]], it is time to consider posting the pattern in a different format, to make sure that the forum threads remain reasonably easy to load and read. Note also the caveat "assuming device has enough memory".

(Of course often it makes sense to think about other exchange formats, even if the pattern does fit in 8192x8192. My point here is that increasing that default would amount to encouraging more problematic posts.)
rowett wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 4:20 am
iddi01 wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 10:28 am
LifeViewer runs on a finite universe?!
True. The default plane is 8192x8192 cells. It can be increased to 16384x16384 cells using the [[ MAXGRIDSIZE 14 ]] script command assuming your device has enough memory.
[...]
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by get_Snacked » February 7th, 2025, 5:06 pm

which oscillators in B3/S23 produce diagonal lines of three in a way that they can be catalysed by a boat like so?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3b2o$2bobo$o2bo$bo$2bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 7th, 2025, 8:07 pm

get_Snacked wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 5:06 pm
which oscillators in B3/S23 produce diagonal lines of three in a way that they can be catalysed by a boat like so?
Maybe a high-period monster could be engineered somehow. Seems like it's going to need to have a huge spark like

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$4bobo$2o3bo$3o$4o$b4o$2b3o!
-- to suppress all the cells that have to die off as the diagonal line of three is created.

(?)

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by get_Snacked » February 7th, 2025, 8:15 pm

dvgrn wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 8:07 pm
Maybe a high-period monster could be engineered somehow. Seems like it's going to need to have a huge spark like

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$4bobo$2o3bo$3o$4o$b4o$2b3o!
-- to suppress all the cells that have to die off as the diagonal line of three is created.

(?)
i suspect some honey farm hasslers may be able to produce suitable sparks in a similar way to this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
b2o$3bo$2b3o$b5o$2o3b2o$b5obo$2b3o$3bo!
EDIT:
wow!

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 19, rule = LifeHistory
14.A$3D10.3A$D6.D4.5A.A$3D8.2A3.2A$D.D9.5A$3D10.3A$14.A$11.3A4$11.3A$
5.D8.A$3D2.3D5.3A$D6.D4.5A$3D8.2A3.2A$2.D9.5A.A$3D10.3A$14.A!
[[ PASTET 6 PASTE A! 7 2 ]]
[[ PASTET 5 PASTE A$3A$2.A! 5 12 ]]

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 8th, 2025, 7:50 am

get_Snacked wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 8:15 pm
i suspect some honey farm hasslers may be able to produce suitable sparks in a similar way to this:
There do seem to be a lot of options -- not that I've turned up anything with a reasonably low period yet, but I've seen lines of three thrown off by active messes in various workable ways.

Does something like this count? It expands the range of possibilities quite a bit. There's an extra domino spark produced on one side, but it's harmless as far as the boat catalysis is concerned. I won't bother to build this into a full engineered oscillator at p80 or whatever gun period has a convenient edge shooter -- easy to complete but probably not interesting, just an example:

Code: Select all

x = 42, y = 44, rule = LifeHistory
3.A$4.2A$3.2A6$9.A$7.A.A$8.2A3.A$14.2A$13.2A3$25.2A$24.A.A$22.D2.A$
19.A3.D$17.A.A4.D$18.2A3$27.2A$27.A.A$27.A$21.2A$20.A.A$22.A$11.2A$
10.A.A$12.A16.3A$29.A$30.A6.2A$37.A.A$37.A$11.2A$10.A.A$12.A$.2A$A.A$
2.A36.3A$39.A$40.A!
The oscillator experts might well be able to dig up existing hasslers that produce diagonal lines of three.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by JP21 » February 11th, 2025, 12:12 am

dvgrn wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 8:07 pm
get_Snacked wrote:
February 7th, 2025, 5:06 pm
which oscillators in B3/S23 produce diagonal lines of three in a way that they can be catalysed by a boat like so?
Maybe a high-period monster could be engineered somehow. Seems like it's going to need to have a huge spark like

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
5b2o$4bobo$2o3bo$3o$4o$b4o$2b3o!
-- to suppress all the cells that have to die off as the diagonal line of three is created.

(?)
No need for a high-period monster!

Code: Select all

x = 43, y = 30, rule = B3/S23
17bo$15b3o$14bo6bo$2o12b2o5b3o$o2b2o19bo5b2o$b2ob2o17bo5bobo$4b2o2bo
14bo3bo2bo$4b2o5b2o2bo12bo$b2ob2o5bo5bo5bo5bo$o2b2o7b5o5bo3bo$2o20bo2b
obo7b8o$22bo3bo3bo4bob4obo$20bo2bo11b8o$12b5o4bo2bo3bo$11bo5bo7b3o$13b
o2b2o3$26b3o$13b2o$14bo6bo$11b3o6bobo$11bo7bo3bo$19bo3bo$19bo3bo$19bo
3bo$19bo3bo$19bo3bo$20bobo$21bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by pifricted » February 11th, 2025, 3:45 am

Neighbourhoods on Rhombille tiling are not correspond to equivalent square grid neighbourhoods.

How can we store patterns on Rhombille tiling?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » February 11th, 2025, 5:10 am

pifricted wrote:
February 11th, 2025, 3:45 am
Neighbourhoods on Rhombille tiling are not correspond to equivalent square grid neighbourhoods.

How can we store patterns on Rhombille tiling?
I think one way is to begin with the hexagonal tiling (which can be implemented in a well-known way), and to subdivide every hexagonal tile into three regions. That will require some encoding of cellstates (since three tiles go into one hexagonal tile, you would need n^3 cellstates to implement a n-state cellular automaton; RuleLoader will work up to six cellstates). It should be possible to make icons to show the subdivision.

For more, I suggest to read these old discussions:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1123 Tiling in Golly 1: Pentagonal (and HexStar & PentHex) Tiling
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1124 Tiling in Golly 2: Uniform, Dual-Uniform, and Misc Tiling
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by WhiteHawk » February 13th, 2025, 9:38 am

Attempting to create a (EDIT: TRUE) period-57 glider gun page on the wiki, being that one surprisingly doesn't exist (the only known period for guns below 61 that aren't achieved by period-multiplied streams currently missing a page).

Where can I find the information concerning whatever the first p57 glider gun looked like, who found it, and any subsequent reductions and their discovery information?
Last edited by WhiteHawk on February 13th, 2025, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » February 13th, 2025, 10:28 am

See also Quetzal#Quetzal-57, p57 Herschel loop 1.
WhiteHawk wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:38 am
Attempting to create a period-57 glider gun page on the wiki, being that one surprisingly doesn't exist (the only known period for guns below 61 that aren't achieved by period-multiplied streams currently missing a page).

Where can I find the information concerning whatever the first p57 glider gun looked like, who found it, and any subsequent reductions and their discovery information?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 13th, 2025, 12:25 pm

WhiteHawk wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:38 am
Attempting to create a period-57 glider gun page on the wiki, being that one surprisingly doesn't exist (the only known period for guns below 61 that aren't achieved by period-multiplied streams currently missing a page).

Where can I find the information concerning whatever the first p57 glider gun looked like, who found it, and any subsequent reductions and their discovery information?
Here's a start, from the ancient-history end:
In a 9 March 2003 LifeCA email, Dave Greene wrote: Subject: Re: Improved-once-again pseudo p56 gun

--- In LifeCA@yahoogroups.com, David Eppstein wrote:
> The pseudo-period only has to be a half-multiple, not a whole
> multiple, of the reflector period, right?

Right -- you could even do this with p4N periods, but you have to add four extra reflectors to the thickener to get the right elephant squares... P8 is annoying that way.

> So presumably a p6 version could be used for pseudo-57, which is
> currently missing from the collection (not that I have the
> patience to put it together).

Not quite -- with P6N you can only get four out of the eight possible phases/elephant squares out of the glider loop by adjusting the length of the path. P6N is annoying that way... It would work for anything relatively prime to 8, like p5N or p7N. See below for a sample of the problem at p6.

> The other advantage of your bootstrap construction is that uses
> open ended Herschel tracks instead of closed loops so no need to
> find a loop with the right period (114 is also missing).

That's odd -- I was sure I posted a p114, but now I can't find it in the archives [though I suppose it may possibly be buried somewhere in one of my more soporific long postings.] Anyway, it certainly never made it into the gun collection. Here's a reasonable-sized one:

Code: Select all

#C P114 gun Dave Greene 6 Sep 2002
x = 129, y = 63, rule = B3/S23
54boo$54boo$17bo12boo5boo$17b3o9bobbo5bo$20bo8bobobo4bobo$19boo7boobob
o5boo$30boboboo$6boo14bobboobboobobbo17b3o$6bobo12bobo7boboboboo14b3o$
8bo8boobboo5boobob3obbo12boo3bo28bo8bo12boo$4b4oboobboobboo10bobbo3boo
13bo3boo26b3o8b3o9bobbo$4bobbobobobbo14bob5o15bo3bo26bo14bo8bobobo$bb
oobbo4boo17bo4bo4boo10bobbo26boo12boo7boobobo$bobboobboobo19b4o4bobo
11b3o48bo4boboo$oboobboobobo21bo5bo14bobo42bo4boobobobbo$o3bo5bo24bobb
oo15boo10b3o28bobo3bo3boobboboo$b3obob3o24boo32b3o10bo12boobboo5boobbo
boobbo$3bobobo65boo5bobo11boo10bobobobboo$72bobbo4bobo23bob5o$4b3o21bo
bo42boo6bo4boo19bo4bo$29boo38boo15bobo19b4o$29bo29boo7bobo17bo6bo14bo$
6bo52bo8bo19boo5boo15bo$5bobo52b3o4boo25bobo14boo$6boo39bo14bo$bboo42b
o$bobo42b3o29bobo$bo5boo69bobo3boo$oo5boo70bo4bobo$84bo$$19bo$18boo29b
oo27b3o$18bobo28boo25boobbo$77b3o40boo5boo$78bo41boo5bo$125bobo$125boo
$66bo54boo$16boo42boo4b3o52bobo$16bo22boo19bo8bo52bo$18bo21bo17bobo7b
oo$17b4o19bobo15boo$16bo4bo19boo4bo64bobo$16b5obo23bobo63boo$14boo3bo
bbo10boo11bobo10bo53bo7b5o$13bobb3oboboo5boobboo12bo4boo4bobbo31boo24b
3obob3o$13boobobobo7bobo21bobo3bobbo27boobbo24bo4bo4bo$16bobboboobboo
bbo22bo7bo28bo5bo21boboobobboobo$16boobobo65bobo4b4o19bobo3boobbo$18bo
boboo7boo12boo40boo4bo4bo17boobobbobboo$18bobobo8bo14bo46b5obo14bobbob
o4bo$19bobbo9b3o8b3o45boobbobobo10boobboobboob4o$20boo12bo8bo16bobo27b
obboobobboo5boobboo8bo$61boo6bo20boobobboo3bo3bobo12bobo$61boo5bo24bo
bboboboo4bo14boo$93boobo4bo$66bo28boboboo7boo$65bobbo26bobobo8bo$65bob
o28bobbo9b3o$66bo25bo4boo12bo$73boo18bo$73boo16b3o!
But if you want to add a p6 thickener to it, you're probably better off with the equivalent Herschel factory, which needs a somewhat longer glider loop:

Code: Select all

#C p114 Herschel factory Dave Greene 6 Sep 2002
x = 98, y = 138, rule = B3/S23
42bo12boo$42b3o9bobbo$45bo8bobobo$44boo7boobobo$53bo3boboo$47bo6boobo
bbo$30boo13boobobobbobboboboboo$30bobo9boo9boobobobobbo$32bo9bo7bo3bo
6boo$28b4oboobboo4boo9bob5o$28bobbo3bobbo6boobbo5bo4bo$26boo5boboo9b3o
7b4o$25bobb3o4bo22bo$24boboo4boobo24bo$24bo3bobo3bo24boo$25b3o3b3o$27b
obobo$28b3o$29bo3$30bo$29bobo$30boo$26boo39boo5boo$25bobo39boo5bo$25bo
5boo39bobo$24boo5boo39boo$68boo$68bobo$69bo3$70bo$69b3o$68bobobo$66b3o
3b3o$48b3o14bo3bobo3bo$48bo5bobo7boboo4boobo$44bo4bo4boo8bo4b3obbo4bo$
42b3o10bo7boobo5boo3b3o$41bo19bobbo3bobbo4bo$41boo18boobboob4o4boo$31b
oo34bo$32bo34bobo$32bobo33boo$33boo56boo$40b3o48boo$40b3obboo$40bo3bo
bbo3boo$41bo3b4obboo$39bo$39bo4bo$39b4o53boo$96boo$$87bo$87bobo$37boo
3boo32boo9b3o$39bobbo20boo11boo11bo$36bo6b3o18bo$37boo6bo15b3o$61bo9$
17b3o$19bo$18bo$$36bo$34b3o15bo7bo$33bo18b3o4boo$20boo11boo20bo3boo$
20boo32boo3bo4bobo$64boo$30boo33bo$29bobbo$oo27bobbo$oo27b5o$32booboo$
34bo$45boo$45boo$57boo$5boo49bobbo$5boo50boo4boo$28boo33bobo$28bobo34b
o$30bo34boo$20boo4b4oboobboo18boo$21bo4bo4bobobbo19bo$18b3o3boobboobob
oo18b3o$18bo4bobboo3bobo19bo$22boboobboobobo$22bo4bo4bo$23b3obob3o$25b
ooboo5$28bo$27bobo$28boo$24boo39boo5boo$23bobo10bo28boo5bo$23bo5boo4b
oo33bobo$22boo5boo4bobo23bobo6boo$62boobboo$62bo3bobo$67bo5$66booboo$
64b3obob3o$37boo24bo4bo4bo$37bo24boboboobboobo$39bo22bobo3boobbo$38b4o
19booboboobboo$37bo4bo16bobbobo4bo$37bobobobo15boobboob4o$35boo4bobo
10boo9bo$34bobboo4boo5boobboo9bobo$34boobobbobobbo3bobo14boo$37bobbo3b
3o3bo$37boobobobbo$39boboboo7boo$39bobobo8bo$40bobbo9b3o$41boo12bo!
I don't see an easy way to add the classic thickener loop to this, unless someone can provide a one-generation rephaser. The pattern below is about as close as you can get without some extra tricks -- you could get a few generations closer with a longer loop, but you'll never get exactly the right phase just by adding reflectors:

Code: Select all

#C P114 glider-pair gun; not quite a p57 gun due to p6 phase problem.
#C p114 Herschel factory plus thickener Dave Greene 9 Mar 2003
x = 131, y = 138, rule = B3/S23
42bo12boo$42b3o9bobbo$45bo8bobobo$44boo7boobobo$53bo3boboo$46boo5b3obo
bbo$30boo14boo5bobboboboboo$30bobo9boo5bo3boo5bobbo$32bo9bobo9bobo4boo
$28b4oboobboo4b3o8bob5o$28bobbobobobbo5b3obo6bo4bo$26boobbo4boo8b4o7b
4o$25bobboobboobo11bo10bo$24boboobboobobo24bo$24bo3bo5bo24boo$25b3obob
3o$27bobobo$$28b3o3$30bo$29bobo$30boo$26boo39boo5boo$25bobo39boo5bo$
25bo5boo39bobo$24boo5boo39boo$68boo$68bobo$69bo3$69b3o$$68bobobo$49bo
16b3obob3o$48boo15bo5bo3bo$48bobo3bo9boboboobboobo34bo$44bo9bobo7boboo
bboobbo4bo28b3o$42b3o9boo7boo4bobboo3b3o27bo$41bo19bobbobobobbo4bo19bo
10boo$41boo18boobboob4o4boo17bobo$31boo34bo27bobo$32bo34bobo23b3oboo
20bo$32bobo33boo22bo24b3o9boo$33boo6bo44bo6b3oboo17bo11bobo$40bobo43b
3o6boboo17boo12bo$39bobbooboo42bo$40bobobo3bobboo35boo$40bo4b4obboo$
40bo4b3o66boo$38boobo71bobbo$39b3o74bo$40boo73bobbo$115bo3bo$88bo29bo$
86boobo24b4o$38bo3boo32boo9boboo23bo$37boo3bo20boo11boo11bo11boo$37boo
4b3o18bo36bo$37bo7bo15b3o38b3o$61bo42bo$$122boo5boo$122boo5bo$118bo8bo
bo$119boo6boo$118boo3boo$123bobo$18bo105bo$18boo$17bobo$124b3o$100b3o$
36bo65bo20bobobo$34b3o15bo6boo18boo20bo19b3obob3o$33bo18b3o6bo17bobo
38bo5bo3bo$20boo11boo20bobbo22bo37boboboobboobo$20boo32boo3boo3bo12b4o
boobboo31boboobboobbo$64bobo10bobbobobobbo30boo4bobboo$30boo32boo9boo
bbo4boo30bobbobobobbo$29bobbo41bobboobboobo31boobboob4o$oo26boo43boboo
bboobobo37bo$oo27boo3bo38bo3bo5bo38bobo$30bo4bo38b3obob3o40boo$33b3o
40bobobo$45boo$45boo30b3o$57boo$5boo49bobbo$5boo50boo4boo14bo$28boo33b
obo12bobo$28bobo34bo13boo$30bo34boo8boo16bo$20boo4b4oboobboo18boo17bob
o15bo$21bo4bo4bobobbo19bo17bo5boo10b3o$18b3o3boobbobboboo18b3o17boo5b
oo$18bo4bobboo3bobo19bo$22boboobboboobo46boo$22bo4bo4bo46bobbo$23b3obo
b3o46bobobo10boo$25b5o48boboboo5boobboo$76boobo3bo4bobo$76bobbob3o5bo$
73boobobobobbo$73bobbo5boo7boo$28bo45boo4bobo8bo$27bobo46b5obo9b3o$28b
oo46bo4bo12bo$24boo39boo5boo3b4o$23bobo9boo28boo5bo5bo$23bo5boo4bobo
32bobo3bo$22boo5boo4bo27bo6boo4boo$61bobobboo$62boobbobo$67bo5$66b5o$
64b3obob3o$37boo24bo4bo4bo$37bo24boboobobboobo$39bo22bobo3boobbo$38b4o
19boobobbobboo$37bo4bo16bobbobo4bo$37booboobo15boobboob4o$35boo3bobbo
10boo9bo$34bobboobboboo5boobboo9bobo$34boobobobo4bobbobo14boo$37bobbo
bboobo3bo$37boobobo3bo$39boboboo7boo$39bobobo8bo$40bobbo9b3o$41boo12bo!
But of course there's no reason you _have_ to use that extra output glider from the transparent-beehive inserter. I seem to recall that it's annoyingly hard to add extra conduits before the thickener, to produce a different glider with the right phase -- but it should be possible one way or another. Even if the extra glider can't be fed into the insertion mechanism directly, it can probably be used to rephase the inserter's extra glider some other way.

As in the p56 case, a pure bootstrap version might be a little smaller -- though p6 reflectors are a little bulkier than p8 ones, so it might not make much difference in the end.

Anyone want to tackle this one -- the pure-bootstrap version, and/or a new and improved glider to feed into the transparent-beehive inserter? I can guarantee that I won't be looking at it again for a while, myself: somebody must have reported my last posting. The men in white coats from the Life Addict Recovery Center say they'll let me out again in six months or so...
In a 9 March 2003 LifeCA email, Karel Suhajda wrote: Subject: p57 gun (ugly)

Before somebody finds the right glider reflector structure/timing, here is a simple way how to get a p57 together. It's big and ugly and doesn't contain anything new. On the other side, it shows how I intended to improve the p54 gun - find a p108 herschel loop including the p6 herschel duplicator and interleave its output with 'standard' p108 gun. However, I wasn't able to find such a loop yet - seems that I'll have to write some search software first.

Code: Select all

#C p57 gun using Dave Greene's p114 gun and p114 herschel factory
x = 190, y = 138, rule = B3/S23
133boo12bo$132bobbo9b3o$131bobobo8bo$131boboboo7boo$129boobobo3bo$129b
obbobboobo3bo$126boobobobo4bobbobo14boo$126bobboobboboo5boobboo9bobo$
127boo3bobbo10boo9bo$14boo12bo100booboobo15boobboob4o$13bobbo9b3o100bo
4bo16bobbobo4bo$12bobobo8bo104b4o19boobobbobboo$12boboboo7boo104bo22bo
bo3boobbo$10boobobo113bo17bo6boboobobboobo$10bobboboobboobbo105boo15b
oo7bo4bo4bo$7boobobobo7bobo121bobo7b3obob3o$7bobb3oboboo5boobboo129b5o
$8boo3bobbo10boo$10b5obo$10bo4bo$11b4o$12bo146bo$10bo35boo110bobo$10b
oo33bobo110boo$45bo68boo5boo39boo$39boobboob4o65bo5boo39bobo$bboo5boo
28bobbobo4bo65bobo39boo5bo$3bo5bobo29booboboobboo64boo39boo5boo$3bobo
5bo30bobo3boobbo67boo$4boobbo3bo29boboboobboobo65bobo$8bo3boo29bo4bo4b
o66bo$7bo5bo30b3obob3o$8bo4bo32booboo$12bo115bobo$8bobo28boo88boo$39bo
bo75b5o7bo$39bo75b3obob3o$5booboo37bo66bo4bo4bo$3b3obob3o34bobo65boboo
bboboobo$bbo4bo4bo33boo62bo4bobboo3bobo19bo$bboboobboobobo36boo58b3o3b
oobbobboboo18b3o$3bobboo3bobo36bobo60bo4bo4bobobbo19bo$4boobbooboboo
30boo5bo59bo5b4oboobboo5b3o10bo$6bo4bobobbo28boo5boo58bobbo6bo13bo10bo
bbo6boo$6b4oboobboo75boo22bo3bobo12bo21bo$10bo74boo5boo19bobbo3boo29bo
3bobo$bbo5bobo74boo28bo33boo4boo$bb3o3boo5bo$5bo7b3o24bo72bobo33bo$4b
oo6bo27b3o44boo24bo5boo16boo11boo$12boo29bo43boo27bobo18boo8booboo$42b
oo37boo31bo34bo$52boo27boo31bo$52bo$50bobo61bobo$44boo4boo60bobo$43bo
bbo63bo$18booboo21boo63bo$16boo4bo9boo7bo66boo36boo3boo$23boo7boo8bo
66boo14boo20bobbo$16bo4boboo15b3o67bo14bo18b3o6bo$17boobboboo101b3o15b
o6boo$18bobbo22bo83bo$oo41bobo50booboo$oo41bobo44boo3bobobobo$44bo33b
oo11boo3bobbobo$79bo10bo8boboo$41boo3bo32bobo16boo3bo$21boo19bo3boo32b
3o12bobobbobo$21bobo15b3o4boo4boo28b3o10boobbooboo$23bo15bo7bo3booboo
27bobbo$23boo25bo3boo26bobb3o$54boo26boo$49bo35b3o$50boboo28bo5bo29bob
o$38boo43boobboo30boo32bo$15boo6bo15bo45bobbo30bo9bo7bo15b3o19b3o$14bo
6b3o15bobo6boo35b3o41boo4b3o18bo18bo$17bobbo19boo5b3o79boo3bo20boo11b
oo6bo$15boo3boo30boobbobo71bo3boo32boo$51bo3boobo22boo15boo$18bo36b3o
14boo7boo15bobo31bo$17b3o29bo5bo5boo10bo26bo30bobo$16bobboo28bo3boo6b
oo10bobo24boo29bobo54boo$16b4o29bo3bo20boo56bo55boo$19bobo132bo$20bobo
27bobbo100bobo28boo$22bo6boo20boo90boo9b3o$14bo5boo7boo106boo4boo11bo$
14bo5bo110boo4bobo$51boo40boo35bobbo3bo45boo$11boo37bo42bo31boo4boo50b
oo$10bobo78bobo30bobo33boo$10bo43boo35boo31bo34bobo$9boo42b3o67boo34bo
$19boo33boo77boo18boobboob4o4boo$19bo9bo19boobbo41bo37bo19bobbobobobbo
4bo$20b3o6bobo18bo43bobo37b3o18boo4bobboo3b3o$22bo6boo16b3o44bobo39bo
19boboobboobbo4bo$47bo5boo38boob3o57boboboobboobo$35boo15bobo44bo57bo
5bo3bo$34boo16bo40boob3o59b3obob3o$36bo9boobboob4o36boobo63bobobo$9boo
5boo28bobbo3bobbo$10bo5boo30boobo5boo102b3o$10bobo36bo4b3obbo20boo$11b
oo36boboo4boobo18bobo5boo$15boo33bo3bobo3bo18bo9boo70bo$14bobo34b3o3b
3o18boo9bobo39bobo26bobo$15bo37bobobo34bo38boo27boo$54b3o27bobo3boo24b
oo5boo7bo31boo$55bo28boo13boo16bo5boo39bobo$14bo70bo13bobo15bobo39boo
5bo$13b3o85bo16boo39boo5boo$12bobobo37bo46boo19boo$10b3o3b3o34bobo65bo
bo$9bo3bobo3bo33boo34bo32bo25bo$9boboo4boobo36boo29bobo57boo$10bobb3o
4bo36bobo28bobo56bobo$11boo5boboo30boo5bo29bo30b3o$13bobbo3bobbo28boo
5boo13boo17boo$13b4oboobboo49bobo6bo10bobo23bobobo$17bo55bo9boo10bo21b
3obob3o$15bobo33boo19boo8boo11boo19bo3bo5bo24boo$15boo19bo15bo63boboo
bboobobo24bo$37boo11bo66bobboobboobo22bo$36boo10b4o66boobbo4boo19b4o$
47bo4bo67bobbobobobbo16bo4bo$46bob5o67b4oboobboo15bob5o$34boo10bobobo
bboo69bo9boo10bobo4boo$34boobboo5boobboboobbo66bobo9boobboo5boo5bobbo$
38bobo3bo3boobboboo66boo14bobo4bobboboboboo$39bo4boobobobbo86bo5b3obo
bbo$44bo4boboo92bo3boboo$36boo7boobobo85boo7boobobo$37bo8bobobo46bo39b
o8bobobo$34b3o9bobbo48bo35b3o9bobbo$34bo12boo47b3o35bo12boo!
I was trying to put a better thing together but I found that I suck in glider stream aligning. Some source of glider stream/reflections theory would be welcome ;-)

A funny thing about these new components is, usually we have a herschel loop producing gliders. This looks like there are four glider loops producing herschels.

Karel Suhajda

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