Thread for basic questions

[PK22]

Can you monomerise the twin bees shuttle?

No. It depends heavily on gutter symmetry to suppress births, and the volatile nature of where births require suppression means that it almost certainly cannot be monomerised.

[WhiteHawk]

How far (in generations) has Sir Robin been rewound to predecessors which aren't any phase of Sir Robin? (Synthesis-related question)

[dvgrn]

How far (in generations) has Sir Robin been rewound to predecessors which aren't any phase of Sir Robin? (Synthesis-related question)

I think I probably would have noticed if anyone had tried that for a significant number of generations. I don't remember seeing any such thing. I think it's fairly easy to do for a few ticks, maybe back to T=-5 or so.

I'll be impressed with a Sir-Robin rewind to T=-10, and highly impressed by a rewind to T=-15. If someone can find a T=-20 rewind without writing some new code and/or getting help from some extra-powerful computing resources, I'll be really extra super impressed. See here for a discussion of some vaguely related experiments.

(Of course I'm posting this partly in hopes of making it irresistible for someone to write some of that helpful new code and post impressive predecessors.)

[muzik]

For B0 rules: what transitions are required such that spaceships can exist?

[I6_I6]

Two unrelated questions:
1. How can you find the maximum spaceship speed for a rule?
2. How can I use custom ruletables in Golly and LifeViewer? Here's the table:

Code: Select all

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
@TABLE
var a1 = {1,2}
var a = {0,1,2}
var b = a
var c = a
var d = a
var e = a
var f = a
var g = a
var h = a
var i = a
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect
0,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
0,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

1,2,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
1,a,2,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
2,1,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,2
2,a,1,b,c,d,e,f,g,2

a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1

a1,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

a1,a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,0

There may just be something wrong with the ruletable itself, but I don't think so.

When I try to use the table in LifeViewer like this:

Code: Select all

x = n, y = n, rule = b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
[RLE]

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
(rest of ruletable)

I get a message saying:
Repository lookup failed with status 404

I also need help with using it in Golly. I'm using Golly 4.3.

[b-engine]

When I try to use the table in LifeViewer like this:

Code: Select all

x = n, y = n, rule = b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
[RLE]

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
(rest of ruletable)

I get a message saying:
Repository lookup failed with status 404

Apart from the / in name, there may be some errors in the ruletable.

[pifricted]

Two unrelated questions:
2. How can I use custom ruletables in Golly and LifeViewer? Here's the table:

Code: Select all

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
@TABLE
var a1 = {1,2}
var a = {0,1,2}
var b = a
var c = a
var d = a
var e = a
var f = a
var g = a
var h = a
var i = a
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect
0,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
0,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

1,2,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
1,a,2,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
2,1,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,2
2,a,1,b,c,d,e,f,g,2

a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1

a1,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

a1,a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,0

There may just be something wrong with the ruletable itself, but I don't think so.

When I try to use the table in LifeViewer like this:

Code: Select all

x = n, y = n, rule = b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
[RLE]

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
(rest of ruletable)

I get a message saying:
Repository lookup failed with status 404

I also need help with using it in Golly. I'm using Golly 4.3.

Please put

Code: Select all

n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect

before var xx = ...

Code: Select all

@RULE b3/s23-a5Symbiosis
@TABLE

n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:rotate4reflect
var a1 = {1,2}
var a = {0,1,2}
var b = a
var c = a
var d = a
var e = a
var f = a
var g = a
var h = a
var i = a

0,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
0,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
0,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

1,2,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
1,a,2,b,c,d,e,f,g,1
2,1,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,2
2,a,1,b,c,d,e,f,g,2

a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1

a1,0,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1
a1,0,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1
a1,0,0,0,a1,0,0,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,0,0,a1

a1,a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1
a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,a1
a1,a1,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,0,0,a1
a1,a1,0,0,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1
a1,0,0,a1,a1,0,a1,a1,a1,a1

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,0

[WhiteHawk]

p45 dependent reflector loop (a variant of a p45 glider gun) with a rather large central clump of still lives:

Code: Select all

Where is this supposed gun?

[I6_I6]

How is the thessalonic demonoid thessalonic if it has a snark in some phases?

[PK22]

How is the thessalonic demonoid thessalonic if it has a snark in some phases?

All of the permanent circuitry is Thessalonic. The Snarks are only temporarily used to move the elbow.

A Snarkless one might be possible, but it would require either a complete redesign involving splitting the glider streams instead of merging them and some other complicated construction tricks, or destroying and building the edge shooter units with slow^3 gliders (a slow salvo used to create a slower salvo, which is then used to create an even slower salvo), which is ridiculously inefficient - I think the RCT is the only case where gliders that slow are practically used. There would still be temporary non-Thessalonic SL (and blinkers) used as construction intermediates, though.

[dvgrn]

A Snarkless one might be possible, but it would require either a complete redesign involving splitting the glider streams instead of merging them and some other complicated construction tricks, or destroying and building the edge shooter units with slow^3 gliders (a slow salvo used to create a slower salvo, which is then used to create an even slower salvo), which is ridiculously inefficient - I think the RCT is the only case where gliders that slow are practically used. There would still be temporary non-Thessalonic SL (and blinkers) used as construction intermediates, though.

The other option that I mentioned is perfectly workable: put together a "ThessalonicGtoGmaker" and a "ThessalonicGtoGbreaker", and swap them in for the Snarkmaker/Snarkbreakers.

Repeat time would be 112, right? There's a universal subset of single-channel recipes that would still work fine at that repeat time.

Then all of the actual circuitry really would be Thessalonic. (Nobody's going to object to the non-Thessalonic construction intermediates; forbidding those would pretty much just mean that a Thessalonic Demonoid wouldn't be possible, unless someone wants to invent a whole new way of constructing circuitry by colliding gliders, in such a way that they only ever make block and eater still lifes.)

[Resu]

Is a jostling oscillator a hassler that pushes a still life back and forth?

[WhiteHawk]

Is a jostling oscillator a hassler that pushes a still life back and forth?

I don't think "Jostling Oscillator" is a term. (EDIT: NOT A SHUTTLE) I think it would just be a hassler

[qqd]

Is there a drifty catalyst that can replace the function of the p5 shown here (as well as similar oscillators)?

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 21, rule = B3/S23
2bo11bo$2b3o7b3o$5bo5bo$4b2o6bo$11bo$7b2o$7b2o2$6b2o$6b2o$3bo9b2o$2bo
6b2obobo$3bo5b2obo2b2obo$3o10bobob2o$o8b2ob2o5b2o$9bo4bob3o2bo$10b3ob
o4b2o$12b2o2bobo$16bobo$12b2o3bo$12b2o!

My idea was to replace the catalysts in some hasslers with a replacement that creates a drifter which switches this eater 2 variant* back into its original state:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
2bo11bo$2b3o7b3o$5bo5bo$4b2o6bo$11bo$7b2o$7b2o2$6b2o$6b2o$3bo9bo$2bo6b
2obobo$3bo5b2obo2bo$3o10bobo$o8b2ob2obob2o$9bo5bob2o$10b5o$12bo!

[synperiplanar]

what's happening here? what's the nature of the ability of FTL frontends to form backends so fast? i know frontends of STL spaceships will obviously be able to hit their own debris, but i still don't get why FTL frontends form their backends this fast. maybe i'm just yapping but there really is something strange about it in my eyes. this one forms a backend in a mere 16 generations

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
2bo$bo$2o2$o$obo$bo!
[[ PASTEDELTA 0 3 PASTET EVERY 2 PASTE o$obo$bo! 0 4 ]]

[qqd]

Is there any catalyst that can replace the ship in this HF35R?

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 13, rule = LifeHistory
2.2E$2.E.E$3.2E7$C8.D$C.C6.2D$3C5.2D$2.C!
[[ STOP 35 ]]

An LWSS will certainly not appear if you continue evolving the pattern.
There was a completion in Symbiosis:

...
Edit (2 days later): HF47B, based on an HF35R:

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 14, rule = Symbiosis
3.B7.B$3.2A5.2A$3.2A5.2A7$A11.A$A.A10.A$3A10.A$2.A9.2A$12.A!

[dvgrn]

what's happening here? what's the nature of the ability of FTL frontends to form backends so fast? i know frontends of STL spaceships will obviously be able to hit their own debris, but i still don't get why FTL frontends form their backends this fast. maybe i'm just yapping but there really is something strange about it in my eyes. this one forms a backend in a mere 16 generations...

I think if you try a lot of variants on this, you'll find that they form recognizably repeating backends (either puffer or clean) more often than not, and that among the clean ones, 16 ticks is neither unusually low nor unusually high.

[ehenkes]

Hello,

I am a total newbie to Conway's Game of Life. I found a 19-cell pattern that survives for more than 2400 generations before stabilizing.
It produces multiple still lifes and moving objects (blocks, beehives, loaf, boat, ship, blinkers, and gliders).

Here is the starting configuration and its canonical hash: can=0x0000048BD9367050

If this pattern or a similar one is already known, could you please let me know its name or catalog reference?
https://www.henkessoft.de/Mathematik/Dy ... emente.mp4
https://www.henkessoft.de/Mathematik/19 ... ynamic.jpg
Is that RLE correct?
....

Is there a general way to lookup such structures, if you do not know the name?

Here is another 8-cell pattern which evolves for more than 1100 generations:
https://www.henkessoft.de/Mathematik/Dy ... emente.mp4
https://www.henkessoft.de/Mathematik/8_cell_dynamic.jpg

....
Correct?

Is it new or known?

Thank you for your time and help! As a newbie it is really hard, but fascinating.

Best regards,
Erhard

[rabbit]

Welcome!

For the second pattern you posted, it is a relative of the famous 5-cell R-pentomino sequence. If you click that link, it'll take you to the LifeWiki page for it. That large LifeViewer window near the top shows its convergence to the sequence.

As for the first pattern, here is the corrected RLE:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
4bobo$4b3o$b2ob2o$o2b2ob2o$2obo3bo$2bo!

It stabilizes at generation 2,445. At generation 13 it becomes two traffic lights and a block, leading to this 11x8 12-cell equivalent that stabilizes at generation 2,435:

Code: Select all

x = 11, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
8b3o$9bo2$4bobo$2o$o4bo$5bo$5bo!

Generally, unstable objects are only considered notable if they have very unique properties such as high lifespan relative to cell count or create a rare object. You can take a look at the List of long-lived methuselahs (from the bottom of the first table) to get a sense of how long some small patterns last. The current record for longest lasting 12-cell methuselah is 23,334 generations, and usually record-breaking methuselae are found using a search program rather than manual effort.

Is there a general way to lookup such structures, if you do not know the name?

You can consult the List of common evolutionary sequences for rather small patterns. I would count up how many of one specific object shows up once it stabilizes, and Ctrl-F for it in the table that way. This list only pertains to sequences that commonly occur from random starting conditions, so it's not complete. You can also use the LifeViewer windows provided in the table to watch them evolve, or copy the patterns into an external program for personal use.

I would recommend getting set up with Golly as well. It is used by almost all Life/CA researchers to manipulate and discover patterns, and will allow you to copy and paste RLEs with ease instead of having to transcribe them manually. It also supports an infinitely-large universe and two algorithms for simulating Life.

[ehenkes]

Thank you very much for the recommendation of "Golly". It is a great tool.

[WhiteHawk]

Who discovered this p45 honey farm hassler from 2022? It doesn't appear in the August 31 stamp collection updated by EV2, but appears in the September 8 stamp collection

Code: Select all

x = 61, y = 61, rule = B3/S23
28b2o4b2o$27bobo4bobo$27bo8bo$24b2ob2o6b2ob2o$22bo2bobo2b4o2bobo2bo$22b
2o3bobo4bobo3b2o$26bo2bob2obo2bo$26b2obo4bob2o$29bo4bo$24b5obo2bob5o$
23bo6bo2bo6bo$23b2ob2ob2o2b2ob2ob2o$27bo8bo$23b2o3b2ob2ob2o3b2o$22bob
o3b8o3bobo$23bo6b4o6bo4$4b2o8bo$5bo4b2obobo7b2o$3bo5bobob2o8b2o$3b2o4b
o20b3o13bo8b2o$6b2obobo17bo3bo5b2o4bobob2o4bo$b5obobob2o15bo5bo4b2o5b
2obobo5bo$o2bo5bo3b2o14bo3bo17bo4b2o$2o3b4o2bob2o9bo5b3o16bobob2o$4bo
4b3o2b2o7bobo22b2obobob5o$4bobo6b3o6bo3bo9bo9b2o3bo5bo2bo$4bobo6b3o6b
o3bo8bobo8b2obo2b4o3b2o$4bo4b3o2b2o6bo3bo7bo3bo6b2o2b3o4bo$2o3b4o2bob
2o8bobo8bo3bo6b3o6bobo$o2bo5bo3b2o9bo9bo3bo6b3o6bobo$b5obobob2o22bobo
7b2o2b3o4bo$6b2obobo16b3o5bo9b2obo2b4o3b2o$3b2o4bo17bo3bo14b2o3bo5bo2b
o$3bo5bobob2o5b2o4bo5bo15b2obobob5o$5bo4b2obobo4b2o5bo3bo17bobob2o$4b
2o8bo13b3o20bo4b2o$36b2o8b2obobo5bo$36b2o7bobob2o4bo$46bo8b2o4$20bo6b
4o6bo$19bobo3b8o3bobo$20b2o3b2ob2ob2o3b2o$24bo8bo$20b2ob2ob2o2b2ob2ob
2o$20bo6bo2bo6bo$21b5obo2bob5o$26bo4bo$23b2obo4bob2o$23bo2bob2obo2bo$
19b2o3bobo4bobo3b2o$19bo2bobo2b4o2bobo2bo$21b2ob2o6b2ob2o$24bo8bo$24b
obo4bobo$25b2o4b2o!

There also are two p45 oscillators on the Period-45 Honey Farm Hasslers page supposedly from 2022 (Carson Cheng's and the capped gun) which were not tabulated by on the 2022 Oscillator Stamp Collection (they also aren't backed up by posts on the Oscillator, Gun, or Execution of Old Guns thread), so I can't confirm the dates which are cited for their discovery.

EDIT:

When can we expect an update to the 2025 stamp collection?

[NickGotts]

I think Nick Gotts went through all of this by hand already, but there is probably a more uniform description of what you would have to enumerate.

This is what I need to check - watch for the "Systematic survey of small patterns" thread to be added to! Certainly, I don't have any doubt 10 cells is minimal for infinite growth, but nor do I have anything like a formal proof.

[PK22]

Are there p46 reactions (using only twin-bees-shuttles and Tanner's p46, as well as any necessary Spartan circuitry) that can:
a). Duplicate a glider?
b). Merge multiple glider stream onto the same lane?

[dvgrn]

Please have a look at my bunny 11/12 patterns (cf. above). Are they new? By now I do not understand the bunny mechanism fully.
Should I post them at "patterns"?

Yes, much of this discussion has certainly wandered away from the original topic. I'm going to try moving much of the methuselah discussion over to a new Help/Support thread, to get this thread back to basic questions.

[I6_I6]

Are there p46 reactions (using only twin-bees-shuttles and Tanner's p46, as well as any necessary Spartan circuitry) that can:
a). Duplicate a glider?
b). Merge multiple glider stream onto the same lane?

Not sure about the second question, but the p46 natural heisenburp can duplicate a glider:

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 39, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$17bobo15b2o$17bo17b2o$17b3o4$17b3o$8b2o7bo17b2o$8b2o7bobo15b2o$
18b2o10$bo5bo$3o3b3o$ob2ob2obo$2b2ob2o10b2o$2b2ob2o10bobo$2b2ob2o10bo
12$2o5b2o$2o5b2o!

Unless you meant you wanted the gliders to be on the same lane, to which I don't have an answer.