Thread for your unsure discoveries

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
Jormungant
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Jormungant » June 22nd, 2024, 10:35 am

I have seen those 2 working with a speed tunnel, but here there is a weld that allows a syringe equivalent:

Code: Select all

x = 132, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
88.B25.2A.A4.A$87.3B24.A.2A3.A.A$87.4B30.A.3A$4.B34.A48.4B10.A12.5A.A
4.A$3.3B32.A.A48.4B7.3A12.A2.A.A.ABABA$3.4B31.A.3A47.4B5.A13.A.A4.A.A
.2A4.2A$4.4B10.A16.2A.A4.A47.4B4.2A8.2A2.2A4.ABA4B4.A$5.4B7.3A16.A.A.
ABABA40.2A6.9B8.2A.B4.3BA2B4.BA.A$6.4B5.A21.A.A.2A4.2A36.A7.6B11.3B3.
5B4.B.B2A$7.4B4.2A9.2A8.ABA4B4.A37.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.2B4.6B2.4B$2A6.9B
8.B2AB5.3BA2B4.BA.A38.A2.A4.11B8.D14B$.A7.6B11.3B4.5B4.B.B2A40.2AB3.6B
A5B8.DBDB2A9B$.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.2B5.6B2.4B43.9BABA2B2AB8.3DA2BA9B$2.A
2.A4.19BD15B44.9B2A2B2AB8.2BDB2A6B.4B$3.2AB3.6BC13BDBD2B2A9B45.15B8.11B
3.4B$4.9BCBC2B2A9B3DBA2BA9B44.15B8.9B6.4B$5.9B2C2B2A11BD2B2A6B.4B44.15B
6.10B7.3B$6.35B3.4B43.15B7.9B8.2B$6.17B.B2.12B6.4B43.13B9.10B7.B$7.15B
6.11B7.4B44.13B6.2B.8B.2A$7.15B7.10B8.4B42.8B4.2A.2A2.2AB2.7BA.A$8.13B
9.11B7.3B42.6B6.2ABA2.A.A5.B.2B.2A$10.13B6.2B2.8B.2A5.2B42.5B8.B3.2A.
A.A2.3B2.B$9.8B4.2A.A4.2AB2.7BA.A6.B42.B.B8.A.4A2.A.2A2.B2AB2.4A$9.6B
6.2AB3A.A.A5.B.2B.2A51.3B7.2A4.A.A6.2A4.A2.A$9.5B8.B4.2A.A.A2.3B2.B52.
B2AB10.2A.A.A10.A3.2A$9.B.B9.2A.2A5.2A2.B2AB2.4A49.2A8.3A.A.2A11.2A$10.
3B9.A.A11.2A4.A2.A58.A$9.B2AB9.A.A15.A3.2A$10.2A11.A16.2A!



Supersuthiastic
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Supersuthiastic » June 22nd, 2024, 2:53 pm

While working on my novelty generator, I found this pattern that takes ~1B gens to stabilize:

Code: Select all

x = 1038, y = 65, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$18b2o$43b2o$43b2o2$37b2o$15b2o20b2o$15b2o2$33b2o961b2o$33b2o16b
2o942b2o$51b2o944bo2$1021b6o6b2o$23b2o995bo5bo4bo4bo$23b2o1001bo10bo$
996b5o19bo4bo5bo5bo$2b2o991bo4bo17bo3b2o8b6o$bobo55b2o939bo16bobo$2bo
40b2o14b2o934bo3bo16bo2bo$43b3o937b2o12bo18b4obo9b3o$45bo935b2ob2o29b
3ob2obo8b2o$47bo927b2o4b2o2bo15b2o14b2obo3bo10bo$44bobob2o917b2o5b2o4b
5o4bo10bo2bo13b2obob3o10b2o$46bob2o916bo2bo5b3obo8bob2o2b2o4bobo7b2o7b
obobobobo8b2o$45b2o2bo917b2o7b4o8bobo3b2o5bo8b2o8b2obobobob2o4b2o$47bo
930bo10bo31b3obob4o$63bo$47bo2bo11b4o912bo10bo31b3obob4o$50bo11bob2o
901b2o7b4o8bobo3b2o5bo8b2o8b2obobobob2o4b2o$5b2o32b2o6bo16b2o900bo2bo
5b3obo8bob2o2b2o4bobo7b2o7bobobobobo8b2o$5b2o2b3o27b2o7bobo916b2o5b2o
4b5o4bo10bo2bo13b2obob3o10b2o$9bobo36bo926b2o4b2o2bo15b2o14b2obo3bo10b
o$9bobo37bo10b2o919b2ob2o29b3ob2obo8b2o$b2o7b3o36bo10b3o920b2o12bo18b
4obo9b3o$b2o7b3o47b3obo930bo3bo16bo2bo$10b2o8b2o37b2ob4o934bo16bobo$
20b2o38b3o2bo929bo4bo17bo3b2o8b6o$47b2o12bob2obo929b5o19bo4bo5bo5bo$6b
3o38b2o14b3o960bo10bo$5bo2bo54b3o954bo5bo4bo4bo$5bo2bo53bo2bo955b6o6b
2o$63b3o$4b2o10b3o3bo41bo932bo$4bo9b5o2bobo971b2o$13b2o8bob3o968b2o$
14b2o4b3o$15bo3b2o$2o$2o7$8b2o$8b2o$20b2obo$20b2obobo2bo$22bo2bo3bo$
19bobo6bo$21bo5bo$29bo$29bo!
Can you find any longer ones?

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tommyaweosme
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by tommyaweosme » June 22nd, 2024, 2:54 pm

GEEZ!!!?!?!?!? JUST CALL THAT A NOVELTY GENERATOR NOBODYS GONNA RUN IT FOR THAT LONG
just a blue creeper that occasionaly makes a post here or there

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » June 22nd, 2024, 3:17 pm

Nobody is a strong word (especially in an all caps one line chatty reply that doesn't actually contribute anything to the discussion).
HashLife can run the pattern to completion very quickly.

There is a glider collision shortly after generation 983,167,334 near x = 223,419,721, y = 89,388,407 (assuming the pattern is loaded into Golly via Ctrl+Shift+O / Open Clipboard); are there any later events after that, or the reaction settles with that collision?

Code: Select all

x = 387, y = 131, rule = B3/S23
384bobo$384b2o$385bo6$360bobo$360b2o$361bo6$336bobo$336b2o$337bo6$312b
obo$312b2o$313bo6$288bobo$288b2o$142bo146bo$140bobo$141b2o4$264bobo$
264b2o$265bo6$240bobo$240b2o$241bo6$216bobo$216b2o$217bo6$192bobo$192b
2o$193bo6$168bobo$168b2o$169bo6$144bobo$144b2o$145bo6$120bobo$120b2o$
121bo6$96bobo$96b2o$97bo6$72bobo$72b2o$73bo6$48bobo$48b2o$49bo6$24bobo
$24b2o$25bo6$obo$2o$bo!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Entity Valkyrie 2
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » June 23rd, 2024, 7:37 am

Sidesnagger syringe variant:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
5bo$6b2o10bo$5b2o9b3o$15bo$15b2o$2o$bo$bob2o$2bo2bo23bo$3b2o24bo$18b2o
9b3o$18b2o11bo2$2b2o$2bobo$3bo23bo3b2o$26bobo3bo$6bo18bobo3bo$5bobo13b
2obobo3bo$2o3bo2bo12b2obo2b4obo$2o4b2o17bobo3bobo$21b2ob2o2bo2bobo$22b
obo2b2o3bo$22bobo$5b2o16bo$5b2o!
Bx222 IS MY WORST ENEMY.

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » June 23rd, 2024, 10:36 am

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote:
June 23rd, 2024, 7:37 am
Sidesnagger syringe variant:

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 26, rule = B3/S23
5bo$6b2o10bo$5b2o9b3o$15bo$15b2o$2o$bo$bob2o$2bo2bo23bo$3b2o24bo$18b2o
9b3o$18b2o11bo2$2b2o$2bobo$3bo23bo3b2o$26bobo3bo$6bo18bobo3bo$5bobo13b
2obobo3bo$2o3bo2bo12b2obo2b4obo$2o4b2o17bobo3bobo$21b2ob2o2bo2bobo$22b
obo2b2o3bo$22bobo$5b2o16bo$5b2o!
Here is a stable glider-extracting attachment to the syringe (repeat time = 462 ticks). Is there a smaller or faster one?

Code: Select all

x = 73, y = 96, rule = B3/S23
16bo$17b2o$16b2o5$5b2o$6bo$5bo12bo$5b4o7b3o$8bo6bo$3b3o9b2o$2bo2bo$2b
2o$20bo2b2o$19bobo2bo$20b2obo$22bo$10b2o8b2o$9bobo8bo$10bo11bo26bo$21b
2o24b3o$46bo$46b2o23bo$10b2o19b2o37bobo$7bo3bo20bo37bobo$7b4o21bob2o
35bo$33bo2bo23bo$7b2o3b2o20b2o24bo$7b2o3b2o35b2o9b3o$49b2o11bo2$2o$bo$
bobo54bo3b2o$2b2o53bobo3bo$56bobo3bo$52b2obobo3bo$38bo13b2obo2b4obo2b
2o$37bobo16bobo3bobo2bo$37bobo12b2ob2o2bobo2b3o$38bo14bobo2b2ob3o$5b2o
46bobo8bo$6bo47bo3b2ob3o$3b3o52b2obo$3bo28b2o$32b2o$66b2o$45b2o20bo$
45bobo19bob2o$47bo11b2o4b3o2bo$35b2o10b2o10b2o3bo3b2o$18b2o16bo27b4o$
18b2o13b3o14b2o15bo$10b2o21bo15bobo12b3o$11bo37bo13bo$8b3o37b2o14b5o$
8bo59bo$66bo$9bo56b2o$8bobo$8bobo$6b3ob2o$5bo$6b3ob2o$8bob2o2$18b2o$
18b2o7b2o$27bo2bo$25bobob2o$25b2obo$28bo$28b3o$31bo$5b2o23b2o$5b2o5$
21bo$20bobo17b2o$20bobo10b2o5bobo$21bo11b2o7bo$22b3o17b2o$24bo$29bo$
28bobob2o$28bobobobo$25b2obobobobo2bo$25bo2bo2b2ob4o$27b2o4bo$33bobo$
34b2o!
Several beehive-moving interactions. These could be useful if collected and grouped by the action/clearance, but it's going to be nontrivial to maintain a collection of such "junk transformers":

Code: Select all

x = 142, y = 26, rule = LifeHistory
5.A49.A49.A$6.2A10.A37.2A10.A37.2A10.A$5.2A9.3A36.2A9.3A36.2A9.3A$15.
A49.A49.A$15.2A23.A24.2A23.A24.2A23.A$2A37.A.A8.2A37.A.A8.2A37.A.A$.A
37.A.A9.A37.A.A9.A37.A.A$.A.2A35.A10.A.2A35.A10.A.2A35.A$2.A2.A23.A
22.A2.A23.A22.A2.A23.A$3.2A24.A23.2A24.A23.2A24.A$18.2A9.3A36.2A9.3A
36.2A9.3A$18.2A11.A36.2A11.A36.2A11.A4$27.A3.2A44.A3.2A44.A3.2A$26.A.
A3.A43.A.A3.A43.A.A3.A$25.A.A3.A43.A.A3.A43.A.A3.A$21.2A.A.A3.A40.2A.
A.A3.A40.2A.A.A3.A$21.2A.A2.4A.A38.2A.A2.4A.A38.2A.A2.4A.A$25.A.A3.A.
A41.A.A3.A.A41.A.A3.A.A$21.2A.2A2.A2.A.A37.2A.2A2.A2.A.A21.2C14.2A.2A
2.A2.A.A$17.2A3.A.A2.2A3.A26.2C11.A.A2.2A3.A21.C2.C14.A.A2.2A3.A$6.2C
9.2A3.A.A33.C2.C10.A.A30.2C15.A.A$5.C2.C14.A35.2C12.A49.A$6.2C!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Entity Valkyrie 2 » June 23rd, 2024, 9:00 pm

Argh... one cell off:

Code: Select all

x = 44, y = 35, rule = B3/S23
o$b2o$2o6$20bo$18b3o$17bo$17b2o23bo$2b2o37bobo$3bo37bobo$3bob2o35bo$4b
o2bo23bo$5b2o24bo$20b2o9b3o$20b2o11bo4$29bo3b2o$28bobo3bo$27bobo3bo$
23b2obobo3bo$9bo13b2obo2b4obo$8bobo16bobo3bobo$8bobo12b2ob2o2bo2bobo$
9bo14bobo2b2o3bo$24bobo$25bo2$10b2o$10b2o!
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Bx222 IS MY WORST ENEMY.

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MasterbuilderMs
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Cylindrical universe puffer

Post by MasterbuilderMs » June 26th, 2024, 1:25 pm

I am not sure if this is new, but think i found a clean puffer that works in a cylindrical universe

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 7, rule = B3/S23:T0,7
10b3o3bo2b2o2bo8bo2b2obobobobob2o$10b3o10bo8bo4b2ob5ob2o$10b3ob2o3bo$
10b3o10bo8bo4b2ob5ob2o$10b3o3bo2b2o2bo8bo2b2obobobobob2o$10b3o4bobob2o
5b3obobo5b2ob2o$10b3o4bobob2o5b3obobo5b2ob2o!
It leaves behind a row of blocks.
Could this be expanded to not only work in the cylindrical topography?

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by hotdogPi » June 26th, 2024, 2:14 pm

The solid line at the front (regardless of what's behind it) cannot persist in a vacuum. The vacuum speed limit is c/2.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,44,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by dvgrn » June 26th, 2024, 4:22 pm

hotdogPi wrote:
June 26th, 2024, 2:14 pm
The solid line at the front (regardless of what's behind it) cannot persist in a vacuum. The vacuum speed limit is c/2.
However, see the LifeWiki article on waveguides.

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tommyaweosme
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by tommyaweosme » June 26th, 2024, 4:25 pm

i was thinking more along the lines of the lines.

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » June 28th, 2024, 11:49 pm

A stable Spartan 237-tick glider delayer:

Code: Select all

x = 87, y = 86, rule = B3/S23
o$b2o$2o11$29bo$27b3o$26bo$26b2o$10b2o19b2o$11bo19bo$11bobo15bobo$12b
2o15b2o3$9b2o$10bo$5bo4bobo23b2o$5b3o3b2o23bo$8bo14b2o9bobo$7b2o14b2o
9b2o5$6b2o$6b2o24b2o$32bo$33b3o$15b2o18bo$15b2o7b2o$24bo$25b3o$27bo7$
26bo$24b3o$23bo$23b2o$15b2o$15b2o7$79b2o$65b2o12b2o$50bo15bo$33b2o13b
3o15bobo$33b2o12bo19b2o$47b2o3$2o$2o83b2o$85b2o$50b2o$50b2o$9b2o$10bo$
7b3o$7bo77bo$84bobo$85bo$60b2o$41b2o18bo$41bobo14b3o$18b2o23bo14bo16b
2o$17bobo23b2o29bobo$17bo56bo$16b2o55b2o!
#C [[ THEME LifeHistory ]]

Code: Select all

x = 177, y = 179, rule = TripleLife
G$.2G$2G11$29.A$27.3A$26.A$26.2A$10.2A19.2A$11.A19.A$11.A.A15.A.A$12.
2A15.2A3$9.2A$10.A$5.A4.A.A23.2A$5.3A3.2A23.A$8.A14.2A9.A.A$7.2A14.2A
9.2A5$6.2A$6.2A24.2A$32.A$33.3A$15.2A18.A$15.2A7.2A$24.A$25.3A$27.A7$
26.A$24.3A$23.A$23.2A$15.2A$15.2A7$79.2A$65.2A12.2A$50.A15.A$33.2A13.
3A15.A.A$33.2A12.A19.2A$47.2A3$2A$2A83.2A$85.2A$50.2A$50.2A$9.2A$10.A
$7.3A$7.A77.A$84.A.A$85.A$60.2A$41.2A18.A$41.A.A14.3A$18.2A23.A14.A
16.2A$17.A.A23.2A29.A.A$17.A56.A$16.2A55.2A7$159.2F$159.2F4$116.2F$
117.F6.2F$117.F.F4.2F40.2F$118.2F46.F$114.F49.F.F$108.F5.3F47.2F$108.
3F6.F$111.F4.2F$110.2F2$128.2F13.2F$128.2F13.2F31.F$174.3F$173.F$173.
2F4$118.2F21.2F$118.2F9.2F9.F.F$129.F.F8.F$106.2F23.F7.2F$105.F.F23.
2F$105.F$104.2F4.2F$111.F$108.3F$108.F16.2F$125.F.F26.2F$118.2F7.F26.
2F$119.F7.2F$116.3F$116.F4$171.2F$171.F$172.3F$174.F3$155.2F$154.F.F$
154.F$153.2F7.2F$162.2F7$172.2F$172.F$170.F.F$170.2F4$152.F$152.3F$
155.F$154.2F5$176.F$174.3F$173.F$173.2F3$151.2F$151.2F4$168.F$160.2F
5.F.F$160.2F6.F!
It's worth noting that the device contains only one tub, and all remaining objects are Thessalonic still lives.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

Haycat2009
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Haycat2009 » July 1st, 2024, 12:57 am

Pentadecathlon on snacker BB reduction:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
7bo4bo$5b2ob4ob2o$7bo4bo2$2o16b2o$bo16bo$bobo12bobo$2b2o12b2o$7bo4bo$
5b2ob4ob2o$7bo4bo$2b2o12b2o$bobo12bobo$bo16bo$2o16b2o!
#C [[ THUMBSIZE 2 THEME 6 GRID GRIDMAJOR 0 SUPPRESS THUMBLAUNCH ]]
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johamwit
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by johamwit » July 1st, 2024, 8:48 pm

A quadriSnark period multiplier reflector can be turned on/off by a LWSS.

Code: Select all

x = 0 y = 0, rule = LifeHistory
E$3E$3.E$2.EC13$75.2E$75.E$.EC5.2C11.C51.E.E$.EC5.2C9.3C51.CE$19.C.C$
5.2C12.C$5.2C4$28.2C$28.2C2$25.2C5.CE$25.2C5.CE6$23.C$24.2C$23.2C4$
41.E498.E59.E59.E59.E59.E59.E$39.3E$38.E$38.CE2$35.3D$34.D3.D$33.D5.D
$24.2E.EC4.D5.D$22.E2.E.EC4.D5.D$22.2E10.D3.D21.4D476.4E296.4E$35.3D
22.D3.D475.E3.E295.E3.E$27.C2.E29.D479.E299.E$27.4E5.2A23.D2.D476.E2.
E296.E2.E$24.E11.2A$24.5E$28.E$26.E$26.2E7.2C.2C$31.2E2.2C.C$31.E6.C.
E.2E$32.7E.2E.E$39.E$34.4E.E$34.E2.2E21$73.CE$73.E$74.3E$76.E!
#C [[ X -380 Y 0 ZOOM 5 ]]
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 1st, 2024, 9:03 pm

johamwit wrote:
July 1st, 2024, 8:48 pm
Unfortunately that cannot be easily used to manipulate a quadri-Snark pulse divider by sending single gliders and glider pairs, because one needs to know the current state of the pulse divider to decide whether or not it's allowed to send a glider pair. For three out of four states, sending the LWSS causes kaboom:

Code: Select all

x = 343, y = 31, rule = B3/S23
bo99bo99bo99bo$2b2o98b2o98b2o98b2o$b2o98b2o98b2o98b2o4$19bo99bo99bo99b
o$17b3o97b3o97b3o97b3o$16bo99bo99bo99bo$16b2o98b2o98b2o98b2o3$210bo$
209bobo$2b2ob2o95b2ob2o95b2ob2o3bo91b2ob2o$o2bob2o93bo2bob2o93bo2bob2o
93bo2bob2o$2o36b4o58b2o36b4o58b2o36b4o58b2o36b4o$38bo3bo70b2o23bo3bo
73bo21bo3bo73bo21bo3bo$5bo2bo29bo66bo2bo4b2o23bo66bo2bo6bobo20bo66bo2b
o6bobo20bo$5b4o5b2o23bo2bo62b4o30bo2bo62b4o6bobo21bo2bo62b4o6bobo21bo
2bo$2bo11b2o86bo99bo13bo85bo13bo$2b5o95b5o95b5o95b5o$6bo99bo99bo99bo$
4bo99bo99bo99bo$4b2o7b2ob2o86b2o7b2ob2o86b2o7b2ob2o86b2o7b2ob2o$9b2o2b
2obo92b2o2b2obo92b2o2b2obo92b2o2b2obo$9bo6bobob2o87bo6bobob2o87bo6bobo
b2o87bo6bobob2o$10b7ob2obo88b7ob2obo88b7ob2obo88b7ob2obo$17bo99bo99bo
99bo$12b4obo94b4obo94b4obo94b4obo$12bo2b2o95bo2b2o95bo2b2o95bo2b2o!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by johamwit » July 2nd, 2024, 3:06 am

Of course, timing constraints happen everywhere when dealing with GOL circuitry. In many instances, parts of the logic keeps track of subcircuit states...

It would be interesting to try something like this in other reflectors. The easy part is deleting the bait cleanly. Restoring it - by using an input signal coupled with some other - and dealing with input signals in the non-reflective state is a much harder challenge.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 2nd, 2024, 7:47 am

nG-to-G pulse dividers (such as the quadri-Snark) don't feel like reflectors to me. These components don't reflect every consumed glider, and maintain an internal state that depends on the number of received pulses. A reflector doesn't behave like that.

There is a large class of glider-consuming glider-producing devices, which includes e.g. glider reflectors, glider shifters, glider advancers, glider delayers, glider duplicators, nG-to-G pulse dividers, glider logic gates, overunity reactions.
johamwit wrote:
July 2nd, 2024, 3:06 am
It would be interesting to try something like this in other reflectors.
Here is an unfinished idea for how one could engineer a glider reflector that can be permanently disabled/enabled. (I could not find a compatible SPEBOE factory. The idea is to have either a factory to create the bait object and a glider lane to delete it, or to have a "two-state toggle" device that can create and remove the bait object.)

Code: Select all

x = 107, y = 107, rule = LifeHistory
77.4B24.2B$78.4B22.3B$79.4B20.4B$80.4B18.4B$81.4B16.4B$82.4B14.4B$83.
4B12.4B$84.4B10.4B$85.4B8.4B$86.4B6.4B$87.4B4.4B$88.4B2.4B$80.A8.8B$
80.3A7.6B10.A$83.A7.4B9.3A$82.2A6.6B7.A$82.B6.8B6.2A$80.3B5.4B2.4B2.
5B$79.2E3B3.4B.11B$79.2E22B$66.2A11.23B$67.A6.2B5.21B.B$67.A.AB2.6B.
21B.2BA$59.2A.A5.2AB.B.29BA.A$56.2A2.A.3A5.32B.BA$55.A.2A.A4.A3.32B$
54.A5.A3.2A3.32B$53.A6.2A2.37B$53.2A6.B4.35B$51.2A2.B.2B2.3B.35B$50.A
2.2A3B2E33BD6B$51.A.A.B.B2E18BD14B2D5B.B$50.2A2.A.21BDBD7B3.2B2D7B2A$
52.A.A.21BDBD5B6.10B2A$52.A.2A2B2.11B2C5BD5B8.10B$51.2A.A2.AB3.8BCBC
10B10.B.7B$55.2A.A8.5BC9B13.5B$57.A10.15B15.B$54.A.A10.15B15.3B$54.2A
10.15B16.B2AB$65.17B16.2A$64.18B$63.4B3.B.B2.B2A3B$62.4B3.3B2.2B2A3B$
61.4B4.B2A3BA2BA2B$60.4B6.2A.3B4A2B$59.4B11.5BAB$58.4B11.5B2A$57.4B
12.6B$56.4B13.7B$55.4B15.6B$54.4B15.6B$53.4B17.5B$52.4B18.6B$51.2C2B
19.6B$50.CBCB20.5B$49.3BC21.5B$48.4B23.3B$47.4B24.3B$46.4B26.B$45.4B$
44.4B$43.4B$42.4B$41.4B$40.4B$39.4B$38.4B$37.4B$36.4B$35.4B$34.4B$33.
4B$32.4B$31.4B$30.4B$29.4B$28.4B$27.4B$26.4B$25.4B$24.4B$23.4B$22.4B$
21.4B$20.4B$19.4B$18.4B$17.4B$16.4B$15.4B$14.4B$13.4B$12.4B$11.4B$10.
4B$9.4B$8.4B$7.4B$6.4B$5.4B$4.4B$3.4B$2.4B$.2C2B$CBCB$.BC!
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 4th, 2024, 3:15 pm

Composite stable glider shifters, 10hd and 7hd

Code: Select all

x = 139, y = 51, rule = LifeHistory
44.2A78.2A$.C42.A36.C42.A$2BC38.A4.A2.2A29.2BC38.A4.A2.2A$3CB37.5A.A
2.A29.3CB37.5A.A2.A$.4B22.2A16.B.2A.A.2A27.4B22.2A16.B.2A.A.2A$2.4B
22.A10.4AB3AB2.A2.A28.4B22.A10.4AB3AB2.A2.A$3.4B5.A15.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B
2A.A31.4B5.A15.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B2A.A$4.4B4.3A14.2AB.3B4.7B2.A.2A31.4B4.
3A14.2AB.3B4.7B2.A.2A$5.4B6.A15.7B3.7B.A35.4B6.A15.7B3.7B.A$6.4B4.2A
15.16B.2A36.4B4.2A15.16B.2A$7.4B2.2B17.15B40.4B2.2B17.15B$2A6.8B15.
16B33.2A6.8B15.16B$.A7.7B13.18B34.A7.7B13.18B$.A.2A5.7B2.B2.2B2.20B
35.A.2A5.7B2.B2.2B2.20B$2.A2.A4.19BD15B37.A2.A4.19BD15B$3.2AB3.6BD13B
DBD4B.7B6.2C31.2AB3.6BD13BDBD4B.7B6.2C$4.9BDBD2B2A9B3D4B2.7B3.2B2CB
31.9BDBD2B2A9B3D4B2.7B3.2B2CB$5.9B2D2B2A11BD4B2.9B.4B33.9B2D2B2A11BD
4B2.9B.4B$6.29B4.15B32.29B4.15B$6.17B.4B10.16B32.17B.4B10.16B$7.15B3.
2B11.16B33.15B3.2B11.16B$7.15B3.3B10.17B32.15B3.3B10.17B$8.13B5.A2B.
2A6.18B32.13B5.A2B.2A6.18B$10.13B2.A.A2B.A5.20B33.13B2.A.A2B.A5.20B$
9.8B4.2A.A.AB2.A7.19B32.8B4.2A.A.AB2.A7.19B$9.6B6.2ABA4.A8.19B32.6B6.
2ABA4.A8.19B$9.5B8.B2.5A.A7.17B33.5B8.B2.5A.A7.17B$9.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.
A.A7.17B32.B.B5.2A.A.2A.A4.A.A7.17B$10.3B4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A11.14B33.3B
4.A.2A.A2.A.2A2.A11.14B$9.B2AB11.2A.A.2A8.B4.13B32.B2AB11.2A.A.2A8.B
4.13B$10.2A25.19B34.2A25.19B$36.22B58.22B$35.3B3D17B58.2B3D17B$33.4B
2D19B57.2B2D19B$33.5B2D2BDBD14B53.6B2D19B$29.2B.11B2D13B53.2A25B$28.
2A13BD14B53.2A25B$28.2AB.24B56.24B$29.B2.2A21B59.21B$31.BABA20B61.19B
$31.2BA7B.9B2.B61.6B.9B2.B$31.6B6.9B62.6B3.6B$31.5B9.3B.4B57.A2.A.2A
8.5B$32.4B14.4B56.4A.A11.3BD$34.B16.4B60.A.A10.DBDB$52.4B56.2A2.2A11.
2D2B$53.4B55.A17.4B$54.4B55.A17.4B$55.4B53.2A18.4B$56.4B73.4B$57.4B
73.4B!
Jormungant wrote:
January 15th, 2024, 6:52 pm
[...]
After some digging, that gives the following two h-to-g

Code: Select all

x = 113, y = 63, rule = LifeHistory
5$32.2A$32.A$29.A4.A2.2A$29.5A.A2.A50.2A$15.2A16.B.2A.A.2A47.A$16.A
10.4AB3AB2.A2.A44.A4.A2.2A$16.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B2A.A46.5A.A2.A$17.2AB.3B
4.7B2.A.2A31.2A16.B.2A.A.2A$19.7B3.7B.A35.A10.4AB3AB2.A2.A$19.16B.2A
35.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B2A.A$20.15B39.2AB.3B4.7B2.A.2A$19.16B41.7B3.7B.A$17.
18B41.16B.2A$15.19B43.15B$15.2BC15B43.16B$14.3BCBC4B.7B6.2C34.18B$15.
2B3C4B2.7B3.2B2CB31.19B$14.5BC4B2.9B.4B32.2BC15B$13.10B4.15B29.3BCBC
4B.7B6.2C$12.4B10.16B30.2B3C4B2.7B3.2B2CB$12.3B11.16B29.5BC4B2.9B.4B$
10.4B12.17B27.10B4.15B$10.2CB13.18B25.4B10.16B$11.C13.20B24.3B11.16B$
8.3C15.19B22.4B12.17B$8.C17.19B22.2CB13.18B$27.17B24.C13.20B$28.17B
20.3C15.19B$31.14B20.C17.19B$27.2B3.13B39.17B$25.19B41.17B$24.22B42.
14B$23.3B3D17B38.2B3.13B$21.4B2D19B36.19B$21.5B2D2BDBD14B34.22B$17.2B
.11B2D13B35.2B3D17B$16.2A13BD.13B34.2B2D19B$16.2AB.24B33.6B2D19B$17.B
2.2A21B33.2A25B$19.BABA20B33.2A25B$19.2BA7B.9B2.B35.24B$19.6B6.7B41.
21B$19.5B9.3B.B43.19B$20.4B56.6B.9B2.B$22.B56.6B3.6B$75.A2.A.2A8.5B$
75.4A.A11.3BD$80.A.A10.DBD$77.2A2.2A11.2D$77.A$78.A$77.2A!

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by dvgrn » July 4th, 2024, 3:51 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 3:15 pm
Composite stable glider shifters, 10hd and 7hd...
Speed tunnels work too, with offsets of 23hd (right) and 20hd (left):

Code: Select all

x = 147, y = 51, rule = LifeHistory
52.2A78.2A$17.2A.2A30.A44.2A.2A30.A$18.A.A28.A4.A2.2A39.A.A28.A4.A2.2A
$.B11.2A.A5.A.2A23.5A.A2.A22.B11.2A.A5.A.2A23.5A.A2.A$3B9.A.A.2A3.2A.
A.A8.2A16.B.2A.A.2A18.3B9.A.A.2A3.2A.A.A8.2A16.B.2A.A.2A$4B7.A2.B2.BA
.AB2.B2.A8.A10.4AB3AB2.A2.A18.4B7.A2.B2.BA.AB2.B2.A8.A10.4AB3AB2.A2.A
$.4B6.7AB.B7A8.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B2A.A21.4B6.7AB.B7A8.A.AB7.A2.A.A3B2A.A$2.
4B9.3B.B.3B13.2AB.3B4.7B2.A.2A21.4B9.3B.B.3B13.2AB.3B4.7B2.A.2A$3.4B6.
3AB.3B.B3A13.7B3.7B.A25.4B6.3AB.3B.B3A13.7B3.7B.A$4.4B4.A.BA3BA3BAB.A
12.16B.2A26.4B4.A.BA3BA3BAB.A12.16B.2A$5.4B3.2A3.BABAB3.2A13.15B30.4B
3.2A3.BABAB3.2A13.15B$6.4B7.BABAB17.16B31.4B7.BABAB17.16B$7.4B6.2BA2B
.B13.18B32.4B6.2BA2B.B13.18B$8.4B6.B.B.5B3.2B2.20B34.4B6.B.B.5B3.2B2.
20B$9.4B2.38B36.4B2.38B$10.29BD4B.7B6.2C30.29BD4B.7B6.2C$11.15B2A16B2.
7B3.2B2CB30.15B2A16B2.7B3.2B2CB$12.14B2A16B2.9B.4B32.14B2A16B2.9B.4B$
13.30B4.15B31.30B4.15B$14.9B2.B2.3B.4B10.16B32.9B2.B2.3B.4B10.16B$15.
9B8.3B11.16B33.9B8.3B11.16B$15.9B6.4B4.B7.17B32.9B6.4B4.B7.17B$15.9B6.
2A7.B6.18B31.9B6.2A7.B6.18B$15.2B2A3B.B2A5.A13.20B30.2B2A3B.B2A5.A13.
20B$13.3BA2BA2B.BA.A.3A15.19B28.3BA2BA2B.BA.A.3A15.19B$12.2A3BABAB5.A
.A17.19B27.2A3BABAB5.A.A17.19B$8.2A.A.AB.2BA4B3.2A19.17B24.2A.A.AB.2B
A4B3.2A19.17B$9.A.A.2B6.2A25.17B24.A.A.2B6.2A25.17B$8.A2.2AB7.A29.14B
23.A2.2AB7.A29.14B$9.2A2.B8.3A22.B4.13B24.2A2.B8.3A22.B4.13B$11.2A11.
A20.19B27.2A11.A20.19B$11.A32.22B25.A32.22B$12.A30.3B3D17B26.A31.2B3D
17B$11.2A28.4B2D19B25.2A30.2B2D19B$41.5B2D2BDBD14B53.6B2D19B$37.2B.11B
2D13B53.2A25B$36.2A13BD14B53.2A25B$36.2AB.24B56.24B$37.B2.2A21B59.21B
$39.BABA20B61.19B$39.2BA7B.9B2.B61.6B.9B2.B$39.6B6.9B62.6B3.6B$39.5B9.
3B.4B57.A2.A.2A8.5B$40.4B14.4B56.4A.A11.3BD$42.B16.4B60.A.A10.DBDB$60.
4B56.2A2.2A11.2D2B$61.4B55.A17.4B$62.4B55.A17.4B$63.4B53.2A18.4B$64.4B
73.4B$65.4B73.4B!
Offhand I don't know where to look for a stamp collection of pre-built shifters. If anyone would be interested in starting a thread and maintaining a script-generated stamp collection of small shifters, with labels for key metrics like the repeat time, that would definitely be awesome.

I've tried to keep databases like this up to date in the past, but they keep getting updated back to flat RLE versions with more up-to-date content but with a lot of the useful data missing.

I wonder if we could set this up as a "standard" example of a reasonable way to handle stamp collections? If so, I could probably provide the necessary Lua script, if that would be helpful. Lua would be more universally usable than a Python script, these days. But I couldn't promise to do the actual ongoing maintenance work.

A simple flat-file text database format might be the easiest (on average) for a volunteer to manage, especially if they didn't have a lot of script-writing experience. Maybe just a comma-separated file giving -- in this case -- lane offset, timing relative to a defined "zero" on that lane, repeat time, bounding box, boolean neo-Spartan / not-neo-Spartan, maybe population, and headerless single-line RLE ... for each shifter? (EDITed to add more parameters)

The first post of a Thread for Lane Shifters would have the text database in a code block with a "last updated" date. It could probably have the Lua script included as part of the same code block, so that anyone could copy it and run it in Golly to get the current stamp collection.

The first post would also include with some arbitrary-but-reasonable decisions about how small and how quick-to-recover a shifter needs to be, to be considered to be worth adding to the collection.

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 4th, 2024, 4:02 pm

dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 3:51 pm
[...] I've tried to keep databases like this up to date in the past, but they keep getting updated back to flat RLE versions with more up-to-date content but with a lot of the useful data missing. [...]
That may imply that people who are currently active and interested in those components find it more useful to make and share stamp collections.

Instead of creating more and more scattered posts and threads, I would prefer to see just a single forum thread where people could post any CGoL stamp collections they want to share, regardless of what kind of objects or components is presented, as long as there's a stamp collection and a description going along with it (what is included, where it comes from, etc.)

As an unfortunate example of an opposite situation, there are currently way too many different forum threads for collecting various conduits, mostly unmaintained. (Stable vs. periodic, Herschel vs. other active objects, clean vs. dirty, elementary vs. composite, and a few other variations on the topic.)

If someone decides to make a commitment to creating and maintaining a database or a collection of some specific type of objects or components, then such a collection or database would certainly deserve a dedicated thread. Most existing stamp collections aren't maintained like that, though, and could all perfectly well go in a single forum thread.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by dvgrn » July 4th, 2024, 8:27 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 4:02 pm
If someone decides to make a commitment to creating and maintaining a database or a collection of some specific type of objects or components, then such a collection or database would certainly deserve a dedicated thread.
Right -- exactly! If you or I or somebody provides a good model for creating and maintaining a database for shifters, then maybe that will attract a volunteer that wants to do something for the community but doesn't know where to start, or doesn't know how to write the required Lua script.

Once things are set up, people can post new small shifters on the thread, and the volunteer maintainer can update the first post every now and then, to reflect recent contributions to the thread.
confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 4:02 pm
Most existing stamp collections aren't maintained like that, though, and could all perfectly well go in a single forum thread.
I pretty much agree with that, but for a rather silly technical reason: it just doesn't seem like there are lots of existing stamp collections that are in desperate need of one single big combined thread to throw them into.

The problem that I'm seeing is that high-quality, carefully updated stamp collections mostly don't exist at all, even though we collectively want them to exist -- as Tawal has described recently:
Tawal wrote:
June 10th, 2024, 7:29 pm
I'm still surprised that today there are no properly classified collections with the necessary information.
I've already found (they've been pointed out to me) some of them, but they're either not up to date or lack information.
For example, the H-to-Gn collection lacks information such as RT, a classification of edge shooters, transparent lane etc.
But where is the Gx-to-G collection? etc ?

That's why I suggested dedicating threads to each collection (with its own rules) and one thread listing all these collections.
In addition, an official maintainer of the collection would be welcome in my opinion.
So a good question is this: is there any way we can we encourage people to take on a little bit of work, to commit to maintaining a collection -- for a year or two or three, let's say, and for just one particular collection?

I'd be willing to build a model for what a useful and yet easily maintainable form might be for a script-generated shifter database.

If a volunteer pops up who wants to commit to maintaining it once it's set up, then that's great! If not, then we don't have to create the separate thread -- unless we want to create it on speculation, so to speak, and see if that attracts volunteers -- no particular harm in trying the experiment!

It seems like Tawal paints a good picture of how we all collectively wish that pattern collections worked. What can we do to take a step or two closer to achieving that?

Tawal also mentioned
Tawal wrote:
June 10th, 2024, 7:29 pm
If someone could create a LifeWiki's page listing all currently known collections, that would be a good start.
That does seem like a good plan! The LifeWiki seems like a better place for this list than yet another forum thread. I can start working on compiling a list along those lines. Possibly some of the "latest and greatest" actual stamp collections might end up on the LifeWiki as well, as hkoenig suggested today -- maybe with just a link to a LifeWiki page from the first post in a forum collection thread.

The list will contain, not just threads that contain actual stamp collections, but collection threads of any kind. Even if no actual stamp collection has been attempted yet, it seems worth documenting the fact that a specific type of information is being collected, one post at a time, in a particular location.

These are the threads where, if you find a new object of type X, the obvious thing to do is to go and post the new object on the Thread for Xes (if you know about the thread! -- but a LifeWiki list of collection threads could maybe help a little bit with that.)

Possibly the list could also serve as something of a "sign-up sheet", where people state an interest in maintaining a particular collection -- and give an end date beyond which the maintenance responsibility goes back to the community at large.

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 4th, 2024, 11:05 pm

dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 8:27 pm
[...] maybe that will attract a volunteer that wants to do something for the community but doesn't know where to start, or doesn't know how to write the required Lua script. [...]
Proliferation of forum threads doesn't feel attractive. That feels like some unnecessarily bureaucratic and heavy-handed approach to something that was supposed to be easy.
I think these forums are already reached the point when it's hard to navigate the scattered collection threads, overlapping with unclear scopes and mostly unmaintained. Adding further layers of management on top of that won't really help.

Most stamp collections are unmaintained. By itself that's fine. Most stamp collections shouldn't really be maintained, beyond having a place to share them. Someone makes and posts a stamp collection. Maybe they update it later once or twice; maybe not. Maybe someone else goes and updates/modifies it later.

A single thread for stamp collections would be an improvement over the existing state of affairs, as long as every reply in that forum thread contains and describes some stamp collection, without the usual flood of chitchat / offtopic posts / counterproductive chains of posts by two people talking past each other that derails the majority of forum threads.
dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 8:27 pm
[...] and the volunteer maintainer can update the first post every now and then, [...]
It feels artificial and unnecessary to tie a stamp collection to a specific person, unless they choose to make a commitment to maintaining a specific collection with a specific scope. In most cases (from those you apparently hope to cover with your idea of collection-specific threads) the first post will not be updated more than twice or thrice.
dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 8:27 pm
[...]
confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 4:02 pm
Most existing stamp collections aren't maintained like that, though, and could all perfectly well go in a single forum thread.
I pretty much agree with that, but for a rather silly technical reason: it just doesn't seem like there are lots of existing stamp collections that are in desperate need of one single big combined thread to throw them into. [...]
I think that means you do not see the existence of a large number of already posted stamp collections. Those stamp collections would be much more visible if they were all in a single uncluttered forum thread.

I do see such stamp collections, scattered here and there. People are creating and sharing them, despite all attempts to "manage" that activity, and despite all attempts to "encourage" that activity.
dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 8:27 pm
[...] The problem that I'm seeing is that high-quality, carefully updated stamp collections mostly don't exist at all, [...]
If there is no intermediate ground between (a) not contributing at all and (b) making a full-scale long-term commitment, there will be no "high-quality, carefully updated stamp collections". They won't magically appear out of nowhere.

The problem isn't really about lack of curated collections. The big problem is lack of common ground between the very few currently active members on what would be an improvement, versus what would make things worse than they already are. In many cases, apparently including this case, the currently active members are talking past each other, resulting in decrease of S/N ratio on these forums, without any net improvement to the existing state of affairs.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by dvgrn » July 4th, 2024, 11:26 pm

confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 11:05 pm
I do see such stamp collections, scattered here and there.
Would you be willing to make a list of links to these various stamp collections that you see? I could work on turning that into the kind of reference list on the LifeWiki that Tawal requested.

No need to worry about the various conduit-related threads that you mentioned, that (if I remember right) MathAndCode initiated a while back. Every one of those has links to the others in that group, at the top of every thread, so they're easy to collect and add to the list. I'm much more interested in all of the stamp collections that you know about that either I'm not aware of, or I don't think of them as being relevant.

I'm sorry that I'm not more enthusiastic about this idea of a single thread that is supposed to collect all stamp collections. This part of your description just doesn't seem very likely to work out well in practice:

"... as long as every reply in that forum thread contains and describes some stamp collection, without the usual flood of chitchat / offtopic posts / counterproductive chains of posts".

If this hypothetical new thread gets interesting stuff posted to it, then people are going to want to talk about new posts, suggest additions or modifications, etc. If there's only one thread, and discussion is forbidden on the thread itself, then there's no single clear obvious place to have those discussions. It seems like there will be just as big of a potential problem with "bureaucratic and heavy-handed" enforcement for the rules that you're visualizing for this one special new thread, as for simply continuing to manage collection threads in the way that we already do.

However, if you want to create this one special new thread for stamp collections, please feel free to do so. I could easily be wrong in my guess as to how well it will work -- and the obvious way to find out that I'm wrong is to be bold, and go ahead and make the experiment.

I'll try to support the new thread as much as I can, if you create it. Mostly I'm just concerned that it is likely to turn into another maintenance nightmare for moderators, where a large fraction of the posts get reported as off-topic and people expect them to get moved somewhere else.

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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by confocaloid » July 4th, 2024, 11:47 pm

dvgrn wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 11:26 pm
confocaloid wrote:
July 4th, 2024, 11:05 pm
I do see such stamp collections, scattered here and there.
Would you be willing to make a list of links to these various stamp collections that you see? I could work on turning that into the kind of reference list on the LifeWiki that Tawal requested.
I don't think collecting hyperlinks to forum posts would be an improvement. Otherwise, it is not too hard to notice/find existing stamp collections, if one is interested in them.

I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea to put a separate list on LifeWiki. Adding a new stamp collection can and should be as simple as posting it.
With a dedicated thread for stamp collections, a list becomes unnecessary: the thread by itself automatically serves as a "list".
Without a dedicated thread for stamp collections, my expectation here is that if one attempts to keep a separate list, either
(a) the list of links itself will become unmaintained / obsolete / abandoned,
(b) keeping the list of links will become more of a maintenance nightmare than it would be to have a dedicated forum thread,
(c) or both.
confocaloid wrote:
June 19th, 2024, 9:56 am
[...] Links work better when there is some context. A long list of "miscellaneous" links doesn't give that.
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Re: Thread for your unsure discoveries

Post by Jormungant » July 5th, 2024, 4:04 pm

Well, not sure why, but I have been updating that 2020 version lately, but it is far from done. I also am not sure how to annotate X-to-G where x is not H...
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