Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
hkoenig
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by hkoenig » October 2nd, 2020, 9:50 pm

re: Microsoft development practices--That matches my experience.

Starting in the last century I did contracting at Microsoft, off and on, for about ten years, converting low level Windows code (registry management, video codecs, DRM, Silverlight, etc.) to run in the MacOS environment. Nobody wrote understandable or debuggable code, as far as I could tell. I think they were penalized for every comment or any extra whitespace character or any variable name longer than three characters, and lost stock options for producing actual documentation or design specs ("the source is the documentation" I was told once). The MacOS development system back then allowed only 10,000 compiler warnings before giving up completely, and at least once I had to work around that limitation to get something I could work on. Then there was the guy who fell in love with C++ templates, and thought they were the solution to every problem. The stuff was almost as unmaintainable as much academic based open source code. We called it "write-only code."

Although, working there with people with Ph.D.s in cryptography or on the C++ standards committee taught me alot about the quirkiness of low level, bit-manipulating code. Things I've long since forgotten, other than I remember that true pseudo-randomness requires a lot of work, and why to never, ever trust any code that uses C bit-fields.

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 2nd, 2020, 11:01 pm

hkoenig wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:50 pm
Starting in the last century I did contracting at Microsoft, off and on, for about ten years, converting low level Windows code (registry management, video codecs, DRM, Silverlight, etc.) to run in the MacOS environment. Nobody wrote understandable or debuggable code, as far as I could tell. I think they were penalized for every comment or any extra whitespace character or any variable name longer than three characters, and lost stock options for producing actual documentation or design specs ("the source is the documentation" I was told once).
Was the purpose of this to prevent others from being able to steal the code or simply because of a misguided emphasis on "efficiency"?
Also, I sometimes attempt to get rid of unnecessary lines when coding, although I am nowhere near as bad as Microsoft apparently was (and possibly still is).

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blah
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by blah » October 3rd, 2020, 7:50 am

hkoenig wrote:
October 2nd, 2020, 9:50 pm
why to never, ever trust any code that uses C bit-fields.
... Why do you never trust code that uses bitfields? I don't think I've ever heard that before.
succ

hkoenig
Posts: 213
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by hkoenig » October 3rd, 2020, 10:47 am

Bitfields-- if I remember correctly, they were never defined properly (at least as of 2005 or so), so they were compiler implementation dependent. The standard didn't define where the empty space would be if the bitfields didn't conform to byte or word boundaries. (You have a 3 bit field, and a two bit field. Where are the other three bits in the byte? Before, between, after or something else? And what about three, 3-bit fields? Are they byte aligned or word aligned? (And all that assumes 8 bit bytes, which long ago was not assured, either...)) Endianness came into play, made worse by the fact that Unix and C were developed originally on the PDP-11, which was neither big nor little endian. Bytes of long words on the PDP-11 were stored 3412 there, where littleendian intel is 1234 and bigendian 68xxx/PowerPC 4321. (Working from decades old memory here, so could be mis-remembering.) Also, the endianness within the bitfield itself wasn't required to match the device endianness. The Unix developers "punted" the whole problem, and it never got fixed.

In applications using bit level manipulation and storage, like codecs and cryptography, endianness matters, and you have to be especially careful to read/write out the bits in the right order. Off by a single bit, and your music video plays back as garbage. If you use bitfields with unions and structs and such, your code can change underneath you because your compiler got an update and the implementors changed the way bit fields are stored without realizing it. The compiler passed all the extensive validation suite tests because the validation suite only tests the defined standards. So you break and have no idea why. So all the low level code I worked with went to the trouble of defining all its bitfield type manipulation operators to control the placement of data, even though you did nothing wrong. That was one of the first places I had to get compatibility to work correctly. (Learned a lot of the background from someone who, for a while, maintained a major USB chipset manufacturer's 8-bit C compiler, where every extra bit of memory had to be accounted for because those bits over hundreds of millions of devices adds to the manufacturing cost.)

At Microsoft, projects like the ones I worked on had an "SCM (Software Configuration Management) build" machine where the official code was built. One of my tasks was to set it up so that someone else could actually build the final product. Once the build system was set up for distribution builds, you did not do system OS or compiler updates, to make sure the process was completely reproducible. Once the "golden master" was distributed, that machine got stored away, and a new machine set up for the next version. The idea was that if necessary, it was possible to completely reproduce the software sent out to customers, I never found out if that ever actually happened, or was even useful.

Sorry to get so far off topic, but that brought up all sorts of memories of things I no longer have to worry about...

mniemiec
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by mniemiec » October 3rd, 2020, 3:24 pm

hkoenig wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:47 am
Bitfields...
The problem wasn't bit fields; it was unions. Using bit fields alone should have worked fine, as a means of packing data in an abstract way, although I've almost never used them, nor felt the need to do so.

The language didn't specify how padding worked in general, even without bit-fields. union { long l; char c[4]; } would give different behaviors on 80x86, 68000, and PDP-11. It was even worse if structs were involved, because some machine architectures (like PDP-11) required word-aligned objects to be located on word boundaries, and others (like 80x86) liked to do that anyway for CPU efficiency, even if it was not required, so compilers often introduced hidden padding bytes that would not easily be noticed by code. It didn't help that Microsoft short-sightedly designed its external file formats without alignment in mind, so when files were read into RAM, structure elements would be on unaligned boundaries. Code had to be loaded with non-portable pragmas to ensure that just the right amount of padding (usually none) was included.

Also, union { double d; char c[8]; } can't even pretend to be portable.

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blah
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by blah » October 3rd, 2020, 4:02 pm

hkoenig wrote:
October 3rd, 2020, 10:47 am
Bytes of long words on the PDP-11 were stored 3412 there...
2143, actually. I just tested this on an emulator:

Code: Select all

# cat end.c

int main(){
        long x=0x12345678;
        char *p=(char*)&x;
        printf("%x %x %x %x\n",p[0],p[1],p[2],p[3]);
        printf("%d %d\n",sizeof(int),sizeof(long));
        return 0;
}

# cc end.c
# ./a.out
34 12 78 56
2 4
P.S. Using ed on a system where the backspace key throws away the whole line rather than deleting a single character is perhaps the most frustrating way to program I've ever dealt with.

Now we're really off topic.

EDIT: Wait no I've just realised you're right, I had the order wrong. Sorry.
succ

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 8th, 2020, 2:59 pm

A way to make the Simkin glider gun statorless.

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 23, rule = B3/S23
57b2o$57bo$56b2o2b3o$56bo3bob3o$56b2obo4bo$11b2o3b2o5b2o33bobo$11b3o2b
2o5b2o29bo4bob2o$9b2obo41b3obo3bo$11bo8b2o34b3o2b2o$11bo8b2o39bo$10bo
49b2o2$3b2o49bo$3bo49bo$2b2o2b3o29b2ob2o10bo$2bo3bob3o26bo5bo8bob2o$2b
2obo4bo26bo6bo2b2o2b3o$4bobo30b3o3bo3b2o3b2o$o4bob2o33bo$3obo3bo$2b3o
2b2o$7bo$6b2o!

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 8th, 2020, 8:17 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 2:59 pm
A way to make the Simkin glider gun statorless.
But can you make it strictly volatile?

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 8th, 2020, 8:43 pm

MathAndCode wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:17 pm
wwei23 wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 2:59 pm
A way to make the Simkin glider gun statorless.
But can you make it strictly volatile?
I actually laughed. That's a funny one.

MathAndCode
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Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 8th, 2020, 8:47 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:43 pm
MathAndCode wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 8:17 pm
But can you make it strictly volatile?
I actually laughed. That's a funny one.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Here's strict volatility approaching one.

Code: Select all

x = 168, y = 54, rule = B3/S23
2o5b2o$2o5b2o2$4b2o$4b2o4$27b2o5b2o$10b4obo11b2o5b2o$9bo4b2o$8b2obo3bo8b2o5b2o$10bob3o9b2o5b2o4$38b2o14b2o5b2o$37b4obo11b2o5b2o$35b2o3bob2o$35b2ob2o2bo8b2o5b2o$36b6o9b2o5b2o$40bo3$81b2o5b2o$64b4obo11b2o5b2o$63bo4b2o$62b2obo3bo8b2o5b2o$64bob3o9b2o5b2o4$92b2o14b2o5b2o$91b4obo11b2o5b2o$89b2o3bob2o$89b2ob2o2bo8b2o5b2o$90b6o9b2o5b2o$94bo3$135b2o5b2o$118b4obo11b2o5b2o$117bo4b2o$116b2obo3bo8b2o5b2o$118bob3o9b2o5b2o4$146b2o14b2o$145b4obo11b2o$143b2o3bob2o$143b2ob2o2bo8b2o5b2o$144b6o9b2o5b2o$148bo!

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 8th, 2020, 8:54 pm

A bumper that only uses statorless oscillators to support the reaction with the loaf. This means statorless glider loops at multiples of 64 (The pentadecathalon allows for multiples of 15). Yes, I used the thunderbird hassler to support a bumper.

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
7bo$8b2o$7b2o10$17b2o9b4o$16bo2bo4b2obo4bo$16bobo4bo3bo4bo$17bo5bo4b2o
$23bo2bo4b2o$23bo2bo3bo2bo$24b2o4bo2bo$27b2o4bo$13bo10bo4bo3bo$12b3o9b
o4bob2o$11bobobo9b4o$11bobobo$12b3o$4b2o7bo7b2o$2bob2o7bo7b2obo$bo11bo
11bo$4bo8bo8bo$2obo19bob2o$2o23b2o3$12b3o!

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praosylen
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by praosylen » October 8th, 2020, 9:16 pm

Here's an almost strictly volatile p120 gun (4 stator cells but the rest should be fully p120):

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
33b2o$31b2ob2o3b6o5b2o$31bo2bo6b4o5b2o$31bo2bo3bob2o$32b2o4b2o7b2o$47b
2o4$16b2o$16b2o47b2ob2o$64bo5bo$12b2o5b2o43bo6bo2b2o$12b2o5b2o43b3o3b
o3b2o$69bo2$12bo64b2o$11bobo63b2o$10bo3bo$10bo63b2o$74b2o$10bo2bo$10b
o2bo$11b3o8$84b3o$83bo2bo$83bo3bo$84b4o$86bo$b2o$b2o$83b2o$4b2o77bo2b
o$4b2o78bobo$84b3o$85b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o$b3o$bobo78b2o$bo2bo77b
2o$3b2o$85b2o$85b2o$bo$4o$o3bo$bo2bo$b3o8$74b3o$74bo2bo$74bo2bo$12b2o
$12b2o63bo$73bo3bo$9b2o63bobo$9b2o64bo2$18bo$12b2o3bo3b3o43b2o5b2o$12b
2o2bo6bo43b2o5b2o$17bo5bo$18b2ob2o47b2o$70b2o4$39b2o$39b2o7b2o4b2o$46b
2obo3bo2bo$36b2o5b4o6bo2bo$36b2o5b6o3b2ob2o$53b2o!
former username: A for Awesome
praosylen#5847 (Discord)

The only decision I made was made
of flowers, to jump universes to one of springtime in
a land of former winter, where no invisible walls stood,
or could stand for more than a few hours at most...

MathAndCode
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 8th, 2020, 9:30 pm

A for awesome wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Here's an almost strictly volatile p120 gun (4 stator cells but the rest should be fully p120)
Simkin's glider gun does seem like a promising method to find a strictly volatile oscillator for a new period, but I'm thinking that we need to find a more volatile way to turn the century back to a block instead of merely using overlapping conduits. It would also make deleting the gliders easier.

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EvinZL
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by EvinZL » October 9th, 2020, 12:14 pm

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 15, rule = LifeHistory
2.2C$3.C18.C$3.C.CB13.3C$4.2CB.3B8.C$6.7B6.2C$6.9B.5B7.2C$7.12B9.C$6.
15B4.BC.C$4.20B.B2C$2.20B2C2B$2.2BC14B.2BC.CB$.3BCBC4B.7B4.2C$2.2B3C
4B2.B2D2BD$.5BC4B4.3D$10B6.D!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by dvgrn » October 9th, 2020, 12:46 pm

EvinZL wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 12:14 pm
44-step H-to-B conduit:

Code: Select all

x = 30, y = 15, rule = LifeHistory
2.2C$3.C18.C$3.C.CB13.3C$4.2CB.3B8.C$6.7B6.2C$6.9B.5B7.2C$7.12B9.C$6.
15B4.BC.C$4.20B.B2C$2.20B2C2B$2.2BC14B.2BC.CB$.3BCBC4B.7B4.2C$2.2B3C
4B2.B2D2BD$.5BC4B4.3D$10B6.D!
That's not useless, but it's also not new. Here's the canonical form from the Elementary Conduits Collection:

Code: Select all

x = 35, y = 38, rule = LifeHistory
D3.D.4D5.D5.D2.4D$D3.D.D3.D3.2D4.2D2.D3.D$D3.D.D3.D2.D.D3.D.D2.D3.D2.
4D$5D.4D2.D2.D2.D2.D2.4D2.D3.D$D3.D.D2.D2.5D.5D.D3.D.D3.D$D3.D.D3.D4.
D5.D2.D3.D.D3.D$D3.D.D3.D4.D5.D2.4D3.4D10$10.2A18.A$11.A11.2A3.3A$11.
A.AB7.A.A2.A$12.2AB.3B3.BA3.2A$14.7B2.6B$14.9B.3B$15.13B$14.14B.2B$
12.18B2A$10.18B.B2A$10.2BD15B2.B$9.3BDBD4B.7B$10.2B3D4B2.B2DBDB$9.5BD
4B4.3D$8.10B6.D$7.4B$7.3B$5.4B$5.2A$6.A$3.3A$3.A!

Jormungant
Posts: 440
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by Jormungant » October 9th, 2020, 1:56 pm

A for awesome wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Here's an almost strictly volatile p120 gun (4 stator cells but the rest should be fully p120):

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
33b2o$31b2ob2o3b6o5b2o$31bo2bo6b4o5b2o$31bo2bo3bob2o$32b2o4b2o7b2o$47b
2o4$16b2o$16b2o47b2ob2o$64bo5bo$12b2o5b2o43bo6bo2b2o$12b2o5b2o43b3o3b
o3b2o$69bo2$12bo64b2o$11bobo63b2o$10bo3bo$10bo63b2o$74b2o$10bo2bo$10b
o2bo$11b3o8$84b3o$83bo2bo$83bo3bo$84b4o$86bo$b2o$b2o$83b2o$4b2o77bo2b
o$4b2o78bobo$84b3o$85b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o$b3o$bobo78b2o$bo2bo77b
2o$3b2o$85b2o$85b2o$bo$4o$o3bo$bo2bo$b3o8$74b3o$74bo2bo$74bo2bo$12b2o
$12b2o63bo$73bo3bo$9b2o63bobo$9b2o64bo2$18bo$12b2o3bo3b3o43b2o5b2o$12b
2o2bo6bo43b2o5b2o$17bo5bo$18b2ob2o47b2o$70b2o4$39b2o$39b2o7b2o4b2o$46b
2obo3bo2bo$36b2o5b4o6bo2bo$36b2o5b6o3b2ob2o$53b2o!
o.o

>.>

<.<

Code: Select all

x = 70, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
$7.4B27.4B$5.2B4A26.4B.3B.B2.4B$3.2ABA4BA18.18B.5B$.BA3BA4BA17.16B2A
5B2A3BAB$.BA2B.B2A.3B16.16B2A5B2A3B2A$.BA2BA4B2AB16.22B.2B.BA2BAB$.BA
2BAB.BA2BAB13.21B2AB4.4B2A$2.B2A4BA2BAB12.13B2.7B2A7.2B2A$2.3B.2AB.2B
AB12.10B6.8B7.2BA$3.A4BA3BAB13.7B7.7B13.2A$3.A4BAB2A3.ABA7.8B6.10B$4.
4A2B4.BA2B7.2A7B2.13B10.A3.A$4.4B6.BA2BAB4.B2A9B2A10B11.A4.A$14.2B2A
2B.2B.11B3AB2A5B15.A.A.A$16.B2A2B2A5B2A6B2AB3A4B16.A.A.A$16.5B2A5B2A
5B3AB2A5B17.A4.A$21.5B.8B2A8B19.A3.A$22.4B2.B.3B.4B$33.4B28.2A$32.4B$
31.4B$30.4B$29.4B!
Keep it secret...
Last edited by Jormungant on October 9th, 2020, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bubblegum
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by bubblegum » October 9th, 2020, 2:05 pm

Jormungant wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 1:56 pm
A for awesome wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Here's an almost strictly volatile p120 gun (4 stator cells but the rest should be fully p120):

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 88, rule = B3/S23
33b2o$31b2ob2o3b6o5b2o$31bo2bo6b4o5b2o$31bo2bo3bob2o$32b2o4b2o7b2o$47b
2o4$16b2o$16b2o47b2ob2o$64bo5bo$12b2o5b2o43bo6bo2b2o$12b2o5b2o43b3o3b
o3b2o$69bo2$12bo64b2o$11bobo63b2o$10bo3bo$10bo63b2o$74b2o$10bo2bo$10b
o2bo$11b3o8$84b3o$83bo2bo$83bo3bo$84b4o$86bo$b2o$b2o$83b2o$4b2o77bo2b
o$4b2o78bobo$84b3o$85b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o82b2o$b2o$b3o$bobo78b2o$bo2bo77b
2o$3b2o$85b2o$85b2o$bo$4o$o3bo$bo2bo$b3o8$74b3o$74bo2bo$74bo2bo$12b2o
$12b2o63bo$73bo3bo$9b2o63bobo$9b2o64bo2$18bo$12b2o3bo3b3o43b2o5b2o$12b
2o2bo6bo43b2o5b2o$17bo5bo$18b2ob2o47b2o$70b2o4$39b2o$39b2o7b2o4b2o$46b
2obo3bo2bo$36b2o5b4o6bo2bo$36b2o5b6o3b2ob2o$53b2o!
o.o

>.>

<.<

Code: Select all

x = 86, y = 24, rule = LifeHistory
9.4B27.4B$7.2B4A26.4B.3B.B2.4B$5.2ABA4BA18.18B.5B$3.BA3BA4BA17.16B2A
5B2A3BAB$3.BA2B.B2A.3B16.16B2A5B2A3B2A$3.BA2BA4B2AB16.22B.2B.BA2BAB$
3.BA2BAB.BA2BAB13.21B2AB4.4B2A6.A2BA$4.B2A4BA2BAB12.13B2.7B2A7.2B2A4.
BA4B$4.3B.2AB.2BAB12.10B6.8B7.2BA3.B2A6B$5.A4BA3BAB13.7B7.7B13.A6B2AB
A$5.A4BAB2A3.ABA7.8B6.10B12.3BA.2BA.BAB$6.4A2B4.BA2B7.2A7B2.13B12.3B
3ABA3BA$6.4B6.BA2BAB4.B2A9B2A10B13.A5B.5BA$16.2B2A2B.2B.11B3AB2A5B16.
A3BAB3A3B$18.B2A2B2A5B2A6B2AB3A4B16.BAB.A2B.A3B$18.5B2A5B2A5B3AB2A5B
17.AB2A6BA$23.5B.8B2A8B18.6B2AB$24.4B2.B.3B.4B26.4BAB$35.4B27.A2BA$
34.4B$33.4B$32.4B$31.4B$30.4B!
Keep it secret...
Strict volatility
Each day is a hidden opportunity, a frozen waterfall that's waiting to be realised, and one that I'll probably be ignoring
sonata wrote:
July 2nd, 2020, 8:33 pm
conwaylife signatures are amazing[citation needed]
anything

Jormungant
Posts: 440
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by Jormungant » October 9th, 2020, 2:38 pm

I see, well, maybe this could a good challenge then, I guess it could be possible the have four linearly-chained 120p guns that somehow manages to deflect gliders to interact with all eight endpoint blocks. But that might require some non trivial deflections.

Code: Select all

x = 359, y = 155, rule = LifeHistory
23$173.4B$172.4B$171.4B$170.4B$63.4B102.4B$62.4B102.4B$61.4B102.4B$
60.4B102.3AB$59.4B102.3BA$58.4B102.3BA.3B.B2.4B$57.4B96.18B.5B$56.3AB
96.16B2A5B2AB$55.3BA97.16B2A5B2AB$54.3BA.3B.B2.4B86.22B.2B$47.18B.5B
83.21B2AB12.B$46.16B2A5B2AB81.13B2.7B2A12.2B$46.16B2A5B2AB81.10B6.8B
11.3B$46.22B.2B83.7B7.7B12.4B$44.21B2AB84.8B6.10B10.3AB$43.13B2.7B2A
85.BA7B2.13B9.3BA$43.10B6.8B84.2ABA4B2A14B9.3BA$44.7B7.7B83.2B.2ABA3B
A2B2A10B10.4B$42.8B6.10B81.B2AB3A3B3A2BA10B9.4B$42.BA7B2.13B81.BABABA
4BA4BA10B8.4B$41.2ABA4B2A14B83.B4A.3B5A10B8.4B$38.2B.2ABA3BA2B2A10B
86.B2AB2.B.B2A.4B14.4B$37.B2AB3A3B3A2BA10B97.4B14.4B$37.BABABA4BA4BA
7B99.4B14.4B$38.B4A.3B5A8B98.4B14.4B$39.B2AB2.B.B2A.4B102.4B14.4B$50.
4B102.4B14.4B$49.4B7.4B91.4B14.4B89.4B10.4B37.4B17.4B$48.4B7.4B91.4B
14.4B91.4B10.4B35.4B17.4B$47.4B7.4B91.4B14.4B93.4B10.4B33.4B17.4B$46.
4B7.4B91.4B14.4B95.4B10.4B31.4B17.4B$45.4B7.4B68.B22.4B14.4B97.4B10.
4B29.4B.3B.B2.4B5.4B$44.4B7.4B.3B.B2.4B57.2B20.4B14.4B99.4B10.4B11.2B
8.18B.5B3.4B$43.4B.8B2A8B.5B56.3B18.4B14.4B101.4B10.4B10.B8.7BA8B2A5B
2AB.4B$42.4B.5B2AB3A5B2A5B2AB55.4B16.4B14.4B.3B.B2.4B91.4B10.4B18.7B
2A7B2A5B2A5B$41.4B2.4B3AB2A6B2A5B2AB56.4B14.4B8.8B2A8B.5B91.4B10.4B
17.6B3A13B.6B$40.4B3.5B2AB3A11B.2B58.4B12.A3B8.5B2AB3A5B2A5B2AB91.4B
10.4B14.3BABA2BA12B2AB2.4B$39.4B2.10B2A9B2AB62.4B10.A3B9.4B3AB2A6B2A
5B2AB92.4B10.4B12.4BABAB2A3B2.7B2A2.4B$38.4B2.13B2.7B2A64.3BA8.B3A10.
5B2AB3A11B.2B94.4B10.2B2A4B.4B2.4B3A3B6.8B.4B$37.4B3.10B6.8B65.B2AB6.
4B9.10B2A9B2AB98.4B10.2A9B4.7B7.7B2.4B$36.A3B5.7B7.7B68.ABAB4.4B9.13B
2.7B2A100.4B9.2BA7B3.8B6.14B$35.A3B4.8B6.10B68.4B2.4B10.10B6.8B101.4B
8.9B4.2A7B2.16B$34.B3A5.2A7B2.13B69.8B12.7B7.7B104.4B7.8B4.B2A24B$36.
D5.B2A21B71.6B11.8B6.10B104.4B7.7B.2B.26B$35.D3.2B.22B74.7B9.2A7B2.
13B105.4B6.8B2A5B2A19B$34.D4.2A5B2A16B73.10B6.B2A21B107.4B5.8B2A5B2A
18B$35.D3.2A5B2A16B66.3B3.13B.2B.22B110.4B3.14B.20B$36.D2.5B.18B65.
22B2A5B2A16B111.4B.15B2.B.3B.4B4.4B$37.D2.4B2.B.3B.4B72.22B2A5B2A16B
112.16B10.4B4.4B$38.B12.4B73.19B.7B.18B114.16B8.4B4.4B$38.2A88.18B3.B
.4B2.B.3B.4B121.17B6.4B4.4B$38.ABA87.19B15.4B121.19B4.4B4.4B$38.A3B
15.2B69.18B15.4B121.21B2.4B4.4B$39.4B13.B2AB69.4B2.5B2.B17.A3B121.4B.
9B2.4B3.4B$40.4B11.BABAB68.4B4.4B19.A3B121.4B2.9B3.4B.4B$41.4B10.3AB
69.3B6.4B17.B3A121.4B4.8B4.3BABAB$42.4B9.2AB3A67.2B8.4B15.4B121.4B5.
5B.B6.2B2AB7.4B$43.4B8.B5A2B65.B10.4B13.4B104.2B15.4B7.3B9.3BAB6.4B$
44.4B9.BA2BAB.2B74.4B11.4B104.B2AB13.4B8.4B7.7B4.4B$45.4B7.3B2A6B74.
4B9.4B105.B2A2B11.4B19.4B.4B2.4B$46.4B5.12B75.4B7.4B107.4B10.4B19.4B
3.8B$47.4B5.14B73.4B5.4B106.6B9.4B19.4B5.6B13.2B$48.4B3.B3A12B73.4B3.
4B105.B2A5B8.4B19.4B7.4B13.B2AB$49.4B2.2AB2A11B74.B3A.4B103.2B.B2A3B
9.4B19.4B7.6B11.2B2AB$50.4B.2ABABA10B75.A6B103.11B7.4B19.4B7.8B10.4B$
51.4B.A3BAB.8B76.A5B103.8B2A2B5.4B19.4B4.B2.5B.4B9.6B$52.4BA2BAB3.7B
76.5B101.11B2AB5.4B19.4B4.2B.4B4.4B8.5B2AB$53.4B3AB3.7B75.7B99.16B3.
4B19.4B5.6B6.4B9.3B2AB.2B$54.8B3.6B74.4B.4B98.16B2.3AB19.4B6.5B8.4B7.
11B$55.7B3.7B72.4B3.4B97.16B.3BA19.4B7.B.2B10.4B5.2B2A8B$56.6B3.8B70.
4B5.4B96.8B.6B.3BA19.4B10.B12.4B5.B2A11B$56.7B3.7BA68.4B7.4B95.2BA4B
3.9B19.4B25.4B3.16B$56.7B3.5BABAB66.4B9.4B94.2AB2A2B3.8B19.4B27.B3A2.
16B$56.8B.6B.2A2B64.4B11.4B93.2AB2AB3.8B19.4B29.A3B.16B$56.16B.4B62.
4B13.4B91.2BAB3A3.7B19.4B31.A3B.6B.8B$58.14B2.4B60.4B15.4B89.2B3A3B3.
6B19.4B33.9B3.4BA2B$58.14B3.4B58.4B17.4B87.8B3.7B13.B4.4B35.8B3.2B2AB
2A$58.10B2AB5.4B56.4B19.4B85.9B3.7B12.2B3.4B37.8B3.B2AB2A$60.8B2A2B5.
4B54.4B21.4B83.4B.6B.8B11.3B2.4B39.7B3.3ABA2B$60.11B7.3B53.4B23.4B81.
4B.16B10.4B.4B41.6B3.3B3A2B$61.2B.B2A3B9.2B52.4B13.B2AB2.B.B2A.4B79.
4B2.16B9.4B.4B42.7B3.8B$64.B2A5B8.B51.4B13.B4A.3B5A10B71.4B3.16B8.4B.
4B43.7B3.9B$66.6B59.4B13.BABABA4BA4BA10B69.4B5.B2A11B8.4B.4B44.8B.6B.
3B$68.4B58.A3B14.B2AB3A3B3A2BA10B69.3B5.2B2A8B10.4B.4B45.16B.2B$67.B
2A2B57.A3B16.2B.2ABA3BA2B2A10B69.2B7.11B9.4B.4B46.16B2.B$67.B2AB57.B
3A20.2ABA4B2A14B67.B9.3B2AB.2B9.4B.ABA2B46.16B$68.2B58.3B22.BA7B2.13B
74.5B2AB11.4B2.2AB49.11B2AB$128.2B23.8B6.10B74.6B12.4B4.A53.8B2A2B$
128.B26.7B7.7B75.4B13.4B8.B50.11B$154.10B6.8B73.2B2AB11.4B9.B51.2B.B
2A3B$154.13B2.7B2A74.B2AB10.4B10.B54.B2A5B$155.21B2AB74.2B10.4B11.B
56.6B$157.22B.2B82.4B71.4B$157.16B2A5B2AB80.4B71.B2A2B$157.16B2A5B2AB
79.4B72.B2AB$158.18B.5B79.4B74.2B$165.3BA.3B.B2.4B79.4B$166.3BA89.4B$
167.3AB87.4B$168.4B85.4B$169.4B83.4B$255.4B!
Last edited by Jormungant on October 9th, 2020, 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 9th, 2020, 2:49 pm

A pentadecathalon can substitute for the eater 1 in a bouncer, if it's of any help at all. The P64 thunderbird hassler can do the same, but 120 isn't divisible by 64.
Edit: I remembered that a pair of pentadecathalons can reflect a glider directly, but it doesn't matter since that's not strictly volatile.

MathAndCode
Posts: 5052
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 9th, 2020, 4:22 pm

One possibility that would give us a strictly volatile p120 is a century-to-block converter for which either all of its cells are turned off at least once upon being hit with a century or it can be used from two different directions so that all of its cells turn off at least once over the two times.
Another possibility is figuring out a way to use this p120 wick. Regenerating the queen bees at the end may seem hard at first, but it's actually only a matter of hitting the beehive that the queen bee already deposits with one of several possible sets of cells.

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 5, rule = TripleB3S23
DB$B2.2G$AEG2.G$F2.2G$.B!


By the way, I just got a three-∏ sequence.

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 12, rule = B3/S23
16bo$15bo$15b3o3$5b2o$o4bobo$o5b2o8b2o$o15b2o$3b2o$3bobo$4bo!

Jormungant
Posts: 440
Joined: May 27th, 2016, 1:01 am

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by Jormungant » October 9th, 2020, 6:49 pm

Well, the process that would decide if this is possible or not is wheter gliders can be pushed outward so to interact with the p120 block that is the most west (Without Loss Of Gerenality), then hope that can be repeated and linked in each directions.

Code: Select all

x = 239, y = 215, rule = LifeHistory
135.4B20.4B16.4B$134.4B20.4B16.4B$133.4B20.4B16.4B$132.4B20.4B16.4B$
131.4B20.4B16.4B$130.4B20.4B16.4B$129.4B20.4B16.4B$128.4B20.4B16.4B$
127.4B20.4B16.4B$126.4B20.4B16.4B$125.4B20.4B16.4B$124.4B20.4B16.4B$
123.4B20.4B16.4B16.2A$122.4B20.4B16.4B16.2B2A$121.3AB20.4B16.4B16.2BA
B$120.3BA20.4B16.4B16.4B$119.3BA20.4B16.4B16.4B$118.4B.3B.B2.4B8.4B
16.4B16.4B16.2A$111.18B.5B6.4B16.4B16.4B16.2B2A$110.16B2A5B2AB4.4B16.
4B16.4B16.2BAB$110.16B2A5B2AB3.2A2B16.4B16.4B16.4B$110.22B.2B3.2B2A
16.4B16.4B16.4B$108.21B2AB5.2BAB16.4B16.4B16.4B$107.13B2.7B2A5.4B16.
4B16.4B16.4B$107.10B6.8B4.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$108.7B7.7B5.4B16.2A2B16.
4B16.4B$106.8B6.10B3.4B16.2B2A16.4B16.4B$106.2A5B2A2.13B2.4B16.2BAB
16.4B16.4B$105.B2A8BA12B2.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$102.2B.6B2A4B2A8B3.4B5.3B
8.4B16.4B16.4B$101.B2A6B2A6BA8B2.4B5.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B$101.B2A5B3A2B2A
2BA8B.4B5.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B$102.5B.6B2ABA8B.4B5.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B$102.
5B2.B.3B.4B7.4B5.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B$101.4B9.4B7.4B5.4B2.2B3.4B16.4B16.
4B$100.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$99.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$99.3B9.
4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$99.2B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$99.B9.4B7.4B16.4B
16.4B16.4B$108.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$107.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$106.4B
7.4B16.4B16.2A2B16.4B$105.4B7.4B16.4B16.2B2A16.4B$104.4B7.4B16.4B16.
2BAB16.4B$103.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$102.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$101.4B
7.4B16.4B16.4B16.2A2B$100.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.2B2A$99.A3B7.4B16.4B16.
4B16.2BAB$98.A3B7.2A2B16.4B16.4B16.4B$97.B3A7.2B2A16.4B16.4B16.4B$96.
4B7.2BAB16.4B16.4B16.4B$95.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$81.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B
16.4B16.4B$80.4B9.4B7.4B16.2A2B16.4B16.4B$79.4B9.4B7.4B16.2B2A16.4B
16.4B$78.4B9.4B7.4B16.2BAB16.4B16.4B$77.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B$76.
4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B29.2A$75.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B30.ABA$74.
4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B31.A3B$73.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B33.4B$72.
4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B35.4B$71.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B18.4B15.4B
$70.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B20.4B15.4B$69.4B9.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B
41.4B$81.4B7.4B16.4B16.4B16.4B.3B.B2.8B2.B.B22.4B$80.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B
7.4B10.5BA2BA9B.8B.4B8.4B.B9.4B$79.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B10.5BA3B2A5B2A
5B2A5B2A8B2A2BABAB9.4B$78.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B11.5BA3BA6B2A5B2A5B2A10B
2A2BAB10.4B$77.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B12.5BA3BA12B.2B.13BA2B2A2BAB11.4B$
76.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.2A2B11.8BA2BA9B2AB.B2.B2A10BABA2B2A4B10.4B$75.4B
7.4B16.4B5.4B7.2B2A6.3B2.11BAB2.7B2A6.2A7B2.13B10.4B$74.4B7.4B16.4B5.
4B7.2BAB7.2B3.10B6.8B6.8B6.10B11.4B$73.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B8.B5.7B7.7B
4.B5.7B7.12B2.B.3B.4B$72.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B13.8B6.10B3.2B3.10B6.11B.
A17B$71.4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B14.2A7B2.13B3.3B2.13B2.7B2A3BA3B3A13B$70.
4B7.4B16.4B5.4B7.4B.3B.B2.4B2.B2A21B10.21B2A2BA6BA13B$69.A3B7.4B16.4B
5.4B.18B.5B.22B14.24BA5BA13B$68.A3B7.2A2B16.4B5.4B.16B2A5B2A5B2A16B
14.16B2A7B2AB2A16B$67.B3A7.2B2A16.4B5.4B2.16B2A5B2A5B2A16B14.16B2A14B
2.13B$66.4B7.2BAB16.4B5.4B3.22B.5B.18B16.B13.4B.11B6.10B$65.4B7.4B16.
4B5.4B2.21B2AB2.4B2.B.3B.4B37.B.B.5B.7B7.7B$64.4B7.4B16.4B6.3B2.13B2.
7B2A14.4B15.B26.2B3.10B6.8B$63.4B7.4B16.2A2B7.2B3.10B6.8B13.4B16.2B
16.4B5.3B2.13B2.7B2A$62.4B7.4B16.2B2A8.B5.7B7.7B14.BA2B50.21B2AB$61.
4B7.4B16.2BAB13.8B6.10B12.2A2B53.22B.2B$60.4B7.4B16.4B14.2A7B2.13B11.
2B2A54.16B2A5B2AB$59.4B7.4B8.B7.4B.3B.B2.4B2.B2A12BA8B11.4B55.16B2A5B
2AB$58.4B7.4B10.18B.5B.15BABA4B12.4B57.9BA8B.5B$57.4B7.4B10.16B2A5B2A
5B2A9B3A4B11.4B65.ABAB.3B.B2.4B$56.4B7.4B11.16B2A5B2A5B2A11BA4B10.4B
50.B16.2A2B$55.4B7.4B12.22B.5B.18B10.4B51.2B16.4B$54.4B7.4B11.21B2AB
2.4B2.B.3B.4B16.4B$53.4B7.4B6.3B2.13B2.7B2A14.4B15.11B$52.4B7.4B7.2B
3.10B6.8B2.B10.4B16.10B$51.4B7.4B8.B5.7B7.7B4.2B8.4B16.4B$50.4B7.4B
13.8B6.10B3.3B6.4B16.4B$49.4B7.4B14.2A7B2.13B3.4B4.4B16.4B$48.4B7.4B.
3B.B2.4B2.B2A5BA3B2A10B5.4B2.4B16.4B$47.4B.5BA2BA9B.5B.5BA3BAB2ABA7B
8.8B16.4B$46.4B.5BA3B2A5B2A5B2A5BA2BABA4B2A6B9.6B16.4B$45.4B2.5BA3BA
6B2A5B2A5B2A2B3A2B2A7B10.4B16.4B$44.4B3.5BA3BA12B.5B.6B2A10B10.5B15.
4B$43.4B2.8BA2BA9B2AB2.4B2.B.3B.4B16.6B14.4B$42.4B2.11BAB2.7B2A14.4B
16.5B.B13.4B$41.4B3.10B6.8B13.4B16.4B14.12B$40.4B5.7B7.7B14.4B16.4B
15.6B.3B.B$39.A3B4.8B6.10B12.4B16.4B16.4B6.2B$38.A3B5.2A7B2.13B11.4B
16.4B16.4B6.3B$36.2B2AC5.B2A21B11.4B16.4B16.4B$36.3BDB2.2B.22B12.4B
16.4B16.4B$35.3BD2B.B2A5B2A16B11.4B16.BA2B16.4B$35.4BD3B2A5B2A16B10.
4B16.2A2B16.4B$36.5B.6B.18B10.4B16.2B2A16.4B$37.5B2.4B2.B.3B.4B16.4B
16.4B16.BA2B$37.4B2A12.4B15.11B10.4B16.2A2B$38.3BABA10.4B16.10B10.4B
16.2B2A$41.A3B8.BA2B16.4B16.4B16.4B$42.4B6.2A2B16.4B16.4B16.4B$43.4B
4.2B2A16.4B16.4B16.4B$44.4B2.4B16.BA2B16.4B16.4B$45.8B16.2A2B16.4B16.
4B$46.6B16.2B2A16.4B16.4B$47.6B14.4B16.4B16.4B$46.8B12.4B16.4B16.4B$
45.10B10.4B16.4B16.4B$44.5B.6B8.4B16.4B16.4B$43.4B4.6B4.12B10.4B6.4B
6.4B$42.4B6.6B3.6B.3B.B9.4B7.3B6.4B$41.4B8.4B2A2.4B6.2B8.4B8.2B6.4B$
40.4B10.3BABA4B6.3B7.4B9.B6.4B$39.4B12.2BA5B6.4B6.4B16.4B$38.4B14.6B
6.4B6.4B16.4B$37.4B15.7B4.4B6.4B6.4B6.4B$37.3B15.9B2.4B6.4B6.4B6.4B$
37.2B16.4B.9B6.4B6.4B6.4B$37.B17.3B2.8B6.4B6.4B6.4B$56.B4.8B4.4B6.4B
6.4B$62.8B2.4B6.4B6.4B$61.14B6.4B6.4B$61.13B6.4B6.4B$61.2B2.5BA2B6.4B
6.4B$61.B4.2B2A4B2.7B.3B.4B$67.2B2A2B2A2.4B6.4B$66.7BABA4B6.BA2B$67.
6BA5B6.2A2B$70.8B6.2B2A$71.8B4.4B$71.9B2.4B5.B$71.14B6.B$71.13B7.B$
72.B2.B.6B8.B$77.7B$76.9B$76.10B5.B$76.3B2.6B$77.B4.6B3.B$83.9B$84.6B
.B$85.6B$86.6B$87.6B$88.6B$89.B.4B$92.4B$93.4B$94.4B$95.4B$96.4B$97.
4B$98.4B$99.4B$100.4B$101.2B2A$102.BABA$103.A3B$104.4B$105.4B13.B2AB$
106.4B11.2B2AB$107.4B10.4B$107.5B9.6B$107.6B8.5B2AB$108.6B9.3B2AB.2B$
109.6B7.11B$110.6B5.2BA9B$111.6B5.B2A11B$112.6B3.2B3A11B$113.12BA17B$
114.6B.6BA9B$115.6B.2A3BA.8B$116.6B2A3B3.7B$117.9BA3.7B$118.4BA2BA2B
3.6B$119.B.2B3A2B3.7B$122.6B3.8B$122.7B3.8B$122.7B3.8BA$122.8B.6B.ABA
B$122.16B.2A2B$122.16B2.4B$122.16B2.5B$123.11B2AB3.6B$126.8B2A2B3.6B$
126.11B5.6B$127.2B.B2A3B7.6B$130.B2A5B6.6B$132.6B7.6B$134.4B8.6B$133.
B2A2B9.6B$133.B2AB11.6B$134.2B13.6B$150.6B$151.6B!
I think it is feasible, but dealing with all the runaway gliders without using any eater will be a nightmare to manage.
Last edited by Jormungant on October 9th, 2020, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 9th, 2020, 6:51 pm

Why can't we have more than one barrel?

MathAndCode
Posts: 5052
Joined: August 31st, 2020, 5:58 pm

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by MathAndCode » October 9th, 2020, 7:06 pm

wwei23 wrote:
October 9th, 2020, 6:51 pm
Why can't we have more than one barrel?
We're trying to make a strictly volatile p120 oscillator, although a strictly volatile p120 gun would also be nice.

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EvinZL
Posts: 629
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Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by EvinZL » October 10th, 2020, 12:42 pm

Known, right?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
12.A$12.A.A$12.2A2$10.2A$4.2A3.A2.A$4.2A4.A.A$11.A2$3.3A9.2A$2.A12.A$
.2A2.A10.3A$.A.A14.A3$2A$2A!

wwei23

Re: Thread For Your Useless Discoveries

Post by wwei23 » October 10th, 2020, 12:47 pm

EvinZL wrote:
October 10th, 2020, 12:42 pm
Known, right?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
12.A$12.A.A$12.2A2$10.2A$4.2A3.A2.A$4.2A4.A.A$11.A2$3.3A9.2A$2.A12.A$
.2A2.A10.3A$.A.A14.A3$2A$2A!
Not sure. There's a version in the LifeWiki with a very slightly different placement of the Coe's P8, but it doesn't interact with the block a second time in that version.

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