The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

For discussion of specific patterns or specific families of patterns, both newly-discovered and well-known.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 6:55 pm

2718281828 wrote:Here, I posted a dove to G...
It fits well to this...
I think this finally almost justifies the "D" in the first post. We have a way to get from a century to a dove to a glider, and eventually back to a dove again.

However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again. We have the old Fx176 Herschel-to-pi-to-dove-to-Herschel, but we can't mix and match that with this other path, the catalysts are on opposite sides and there's no room on the other side.

This new path does look promising for getting something else out, though -- a different glider, at least, and that would be enough to certify a dove as a branch point.

-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution? EDIT: Ah, it's because I'm wrong. Must be out of practice with W and D, please disregard.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Kazyan » December 6th, 2018, 7:12 pm

dvgrn wrote:Entity Valkyrie has pointed out in the LifeWiki PF35W article that the new improved PF35W, like the previous variant, allows for an F176 as well as an Fx176 -- both with a repeat time of 73 instead of 75, and with better clearance for following dependent conduit gliders. So the Herschel conduit ZIP file in Golly's pattern collection is a bit out of date there.
Related: here's a cute p2 way to tighten a row from the W-to-H.

Code: Select all

x = 51, y = 30, rule = LifeHistory
32.2A$27.2B.2B2AB$20.2A4.3A5B$20.A.A4.B2.5B$17.BA.A.3A3.9B$14.2A.B2A
5.A3.8B$B12.B2A2B6.2A.3BD7B2.2B2.2B$8B6.4B6.6B2D15BD$4BC4B3.6B8.6BD
14BDBD$2B3C4B2.6B7.7B2D3B2A9B3DB$2BCBC4B.7B6.13B2A11BD$2BC15B5.25B$
19B3.12B.2B.3B.B$2.30B$4.29B$5.20B3D8B$4.23BD9B$4.21B3D8B$2.2AB.3B2.
21B$.A.AB6.20B$.A8.20B$2A7.12B.8B.B$8.10B5.8B2A$7.4B.6B6.7B.A$6.4B3.B
.B10.5BA3.2A$5.4B5.3B7.5B2.A.A2.A$4.4B5.B2AB7.2A3.2A2.3A$3.4B7.2A9.A
2.A2.2A$2.4B16.3A4.2A2.A$.4B17.A9.2A!
EDIT:
dvgrn wrote:-- Why do we have both "wing" and "dove" in the Elementary Conduits definition list, anyway? Maybe we should just remove "wing", since it turns into a dove in two ticks before there's any chance of interacting with it to change its evolution?
They are different patterns; they just have similar-looking first steps--run the isolated wing and dove to completion to see that they are indeed different explosions.
Tanner Jacobi

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by 2718281828 » December 6th, 2018, 9:46 pm

dvgrn wrote: However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.
Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?

Still, another dove to G:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 39, rule = LifeHistory
4$17.A$5.2A8.3A$4.A2BA6.A$4.BABA2B4.2A$4.2BA9B$6.8B$8.11B2.B$8.11B.3B
$8.15B$9.15B$7.17B$6.5B3C11B$7.4BCBC11B$7.3BC2BC11B$7.2BC2BC13B$7.3B
2C14B$7.18B$6.19B$5.21B$5.7B.13B$6.19B$6.21B$6.22B$6.4BD8B2.6B$8.2B2D
8B2.3B$9.DBD7B$9.8B$15.B$14.3B$14.B2AB$15.2A!
It also fits:

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
74.A$62.2A8.3A$61.A2BA6.A$61.BABA2B4.2A$61.2BA9B$53.A8.9B$45.2A5.A.A
6.15B2.B$46.A4.2BAB7.14B.3B$46.A.AB2.2B8.18B$47.2AB.B.6B2.20B$49.11B
2.19B$40.A9.10B2.6B3D11B$39.A.A7.13B.5BDBD11B$39.A.A5.20BD2BD11B$37.
3A.2A4.19BD2BD13B$36.A4.B5.20B2D14B$37.3AB2AB3.35B$39.A.2A39B$43.40B$
43.7B3D30B$43.7BDBD29B$44.6BD2BD3B6.21B$43.9B2D3B6.22B$43.15B5.4BD8B
2.6B$44.13B8.2B2D8B2.3B$44.12B10.DBD7B$28.B16.10B11.8B$28.2B18.10B14.
B$28.3B17.11B3.B8.3B$28.4B13.14B2.3B7.B2AB$29.4B11.20B8.2A$30.4B8.23B
.B$31.4B6.25B2A$15.4B13.4B5.25B2A$16.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$17.4B5.B2AB4.4B.
28B$18.4B5.3B5.27B2.B$19.4B3.B.B6.31B$20.4B.6B4.32B$21.10B2.34B$13.2A
7.45B$14.A8.42B.B2A$14.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$15.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$17.21B3D18B
10.2A$17.23BD17B$18.20B3D14B$17.38B$15.39B$13.19B3.17B$13.2BC15B5.14B
$12.3BCBC4B.7B7.13B$13.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$12.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$11.10B
6.4B7.A6.2A$10.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$10.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$8.4B18.BA.A.A
7.2A$8.2A23.A.A.2A$9.A23.A.A.2A$6.3A25.A$6.A!
Edit1:
Another one Dove-to-G:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
3$5.A$5.3A$8.A$7.2A$7.4B$9.2B$8.5B$6.8B$4.11B$3.13B$2.16B$3.8B2D7B$3.
9B2D6B11.2A$2.9BD8B12.A$3.19B7.3A$4.5B3C10B7.A$4.5BCBC17B$5.3BC2BC18B
$5.2BC2BC20B$6.2B2C22B$6.26B$7.4B.2B6.12B$8.2B10.10B$21.6B$23.3B!
also fitting:

Code: Select all

x = 97, y = 74, rule = LifeHistory
5$61.A$61.3A$64.A$63.2A$63.4B$65.2B$64.5B$62.8B$60.11B$50.A8.13B$42.
2A5.A.A6.16B$43.A4.2BAB7.8B2D7B$43.A.AB2.2B8.9B2D6B11.2A$44.2AB.B.6B
2.9BD8B12.A$46.11B2.19B7.3A$37.A9.10B2.6B3D10B7.A$36.A.A7.13B.5BDBD
17B$36.A.A5.20BD2BD18B$34.3A.2A4.19BD2BD20B$33.A4.B5.20B2D22B$34.3AB
2AB3.44B$36.A.2A30B6.12B$40.28B8.10B$40.7B3D19B8.6B$40.7BDBD19B10.3B$
41.6BD2BD3B6.8B$40.9B2D3B9.2B$40.15B$41.13B$41.12B$25.B16.10B$25.2B
18.10B$25.3B17.11B3.B$25.4B13.14B2.3B$26.4B11.20B$27.4B8.23B.B$28.4B
6.25B2A$12.4B13.4B5.25B2A$13.4B7.2A4.4B3.27B$14.4B5.B2AB4.4B.28B$15.
4B5.3B5.27B2.B$16.4B3.B.B6.31B$17.4B.6B4.32B$18.10B2.34B$10.2A7.45B$
11.A8.42B.B2A$11.A.AB6.39B3.BA.A$12.2AB.3B2.38B7.A$14.21B3D18B10.2A$
14.23BD17B$15.20B3D14B$14.38B$12.39B$10.19B3.17B$10.2BC15B5.14B$9.3BC
BC4B.7B7.13B$10.2B3C4B2.6B7.7B.5B$9.5BC4B3.6B6.2A7.3B$8.10B6.4B7.A6.
2A$7.4B12.B2A2B4.3A7.A$7.3B14.2A.B2A2.A7.A.A$5.4B18.BA.A.A7.2A$5.2A
23.A.A.2A$6.A23.A.A.2A$3.3A25.A$3.A!
Edit2:
A signal splitter, Dove to G+R, the position of the R doesn't look too bad, still it does not fit with something else:

Code: Select all

x = 38, y = 29, rule = LifeHistory
2$8.A$8.3A$11.A$10.2A$10.4B$12.2B$11.5B$9.8B$7.11B$6.13B$5.10BD5B$6.
9B2D6B$6.8BDBD6B$5.18B$6.19B$7.5B3C10B$7.5BCBC15B4.B$8.3BC2BC17B.B2A$
8.2BC2BC6BD13B2A$9.2B2C7B3D10B.B$9.12BD10B$10.4B.2B6.8B$11.2B11.7B$
25.5B$26.2B!

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » December 6th, 2018, 10:33 pm

2718281828 wrote:
dvgrn wrote: However, for a dove to really count as a branch point, there kind of needs to be a way to get from the same dove to some _other_ signal, and then back to the dove again.
Other signal means H, R, pi, isn't it? Not just another glider?
No, I think any branch to a different signal counts as a real branch point. The key is that the output signal can itself be converted to any other type of signal.

Just add a syringe to the D-to-G to get a Herschel, or whatever other signal type is wanted -- and it will be a Herschel at a spacetime location that you can't get from the other D-to-G. That means it's really time to add C-to-D and D-to-G categories to the Elementary Conduits Collection.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Freywa » December 7th, 2018, 4:44 am

Entity Valkyrie wrote:BF293B:

Code: Select all

x = 71, y = 80, rule = B3/S23
10bo$9bobo$9bob2o6$16bo$15bobo$16b2o12$b2o$b2o7$58b2o10bo$58b2o8b3o$
67bo$67b2o3$2b2o62b2o$3bo62b2o$3o4b2o3b2o$o6bo4bo2bo$5bobo5b3o$5b2o$
12bob2o$12b2obo$26b2o$25bobo$25bo$24b2o2$63b2o$63b2o2$21b2o$21bobo$22b
2o32bo$18b2o35b3o$17bobo35bob2o$17bo$16b2o7$24b2o$24b2o9$36b2o$32b2o2b
2o$31bobo$31bo$30b2o!
Made of BLx134B and BRx159B.
Extremely high repeat time.
Actually made of BLx154H, HLx111R and RF28B.
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » January 2nd, 2019, 3:47 am

Here's an Lx251 that Freywa pointed out a few days ago in a message on Discord:

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 62, rule = LifeHistory
24.B$23.3D$23.BDB$22.2B3D$22.5B$22.6B$22.6B$22.5B$21.6B$22.6B$21.7B$
21.6B$21.6B$21.6B$20.8B$21.8B$20.9B$13.2A5.9B$14.A5.10B$14.A.AB2.5B2A
3B$15.2AB.6B2A4B$11.2A4.14B$12.A4.7BD7BA.2A$12.A.AB.6B3D4B2.2A.A$13.
2AB.5BD2B2D2B$15.13B$16.12B$16.9B$13.12B$13.11B$10.B.16B.BA$9.2A7BD
10BA.A$9.2A6B3D9B.2A$10.B.7BD7B$13.10BD3B$15.7B3D3B$14.10BD2B$5.2A7.
9B$6.A7.10B$6.A.AB4.10B3.2A$7.2AB.13B2.A2.A$9.18B3A$9.16B.B$10.16BAB
2A$9.15B.B2A2.A$7.18B.B2.2A$5.19B$5.2BC15B$4.3BCBC4B.7B$5.2B3C4B2.6B$
4.5BC4B2.6B.2B$3.10B4.7B2A$4.2B10.6B.B2A$.B2AB12.6B.B$3.A13.6B$3A14.
5B$A16.4B$B14.5B$15.2A$16.A$13.3A$13.A!
It certainly fits the criteria, but somehow it has escaped being added to the H-to-H collection until now.

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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by Extrementhusiast » January 3rd, 2019, 2:44 am

dvgrn wrote:Here's an Lx251 that Freywa pointed out a few days ago in a message on Discord:

Code: Select all

RLE
It certainly fits the criteria, but somehow it has escaped being added to the H-to-H collection until now.
I had implied this one just ten posts ago, along with an Lx194:

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 65, rule = LifeHistory
19.B$18.3D$18.BDB$17.2B3D$17.5B$17.6B$17.6B$17.5B$16.6B$17.6B$16.7B$
16.6B$16.6B$16.6B$15.8B$16.8B$15.9B$15.9B$15.10B$15.5B2A3B$15.5B2A4B$
15.11B$15.4BD7BA.2A$17.B3D4B2.2A.A$11.2A4.BDB2D2B$12.A4.6B$12.A.AB.6B
$13.2AB.7B$15.8B$16.8B$16.9B$13.12B$13.11B5.2A$10.B.11B6.A$9.2A7BD5B
2.BA.A$9.2A6B3D5B.B2A$10.B.7BD7B$13.15B$15.13B$14.13B$5.2A7.12B$6.A7.
10B$6.A.AB4.10B3.2A$7.2AB.13B2.A2.A$9.18B3A$9.16B.B$10.16BAB2A$9.15B.
B2A2.A$7.18B.B2.2A$5.19B$5.2BC15B$4.3BCBC4B.7B$5.2B3C4B2.6B$4.5BC4B2.
6B.2B$3.10B4.7B2A$2.4B10.6B.B2A$.B2AB12.6B.B$3.A13.6B$3A14.5B$A16.4B$
15.5B$15.2A$16.A$13.3A$13.A!
Time to update my list of assumptions, I guess!
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Re: The Hunting of the New Herschel Conduits

Post by dvgrn » Yesterday, 4:06 pm

Cross-posting EV2/AbhpzTa's new R49 Herschel conduit here.

It seems to imply a number of potentially useful composite conduits like Fx119+R49 = Lx168, not to mention A for Ampere's expectation that the key catalyst may be able to solve similar suppression problems elsewhere, e.g., where the loaf + J. Random Catalyst doesn't fit:

Code: Select all

#C no usefulness is warranted or implied,
#C   this is just a stabilized version of A for Ampere's example.
x = 73, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
22b2o48bo$23bo46b3o$23bob2o35b2o5bo$4bo16b3obo28bo5b3obo4b2o$3bobo9bo
4bo4bo27bobo3bo4bo$3bobo8bobo3b5ob2o25bobo4b3obob2o$b3ob2o7bo2bo6bobo
24b3ob2o5bobo2bo$o14b2o3b2obo3bo22bo14b2o$b3ob2o13bo3b3o24b3ob2o$3bob
2o14b2obo28bob2o$22bo$22bobo$23b2o$12b3o47b3o$13bo49bo$11b3o47b3o!

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