Gun Discussion Thread

[MathAndCode]

This method does not require pasting.

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 12, rule = LifeHistory
22.F$17.A$2A15.2A5.F$2A16.2A$13.2A2.2A4$13.2A2.2A9.2A$2A16.2A8.2A$2A15.2A$17.A!

Is there a catalyst that makes the block (or another object that achieves the same effect)?

I found another glider-creating reaction.

Code: Select all

x = 36, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
10b2o$2o6b2ob2o$2o6bo2bo$8bo2bo$9b2o2$9b2o10b3ob3o$8bo2bo8bob2ob2obo$2o6bo2bo7b2o7b2o$2o6b2ob2o7bob2ob2obo$10b2o9b3ob3o5b3o$33bo$34b2o!

It is at least theoretically possible to use this method to emit a glider without destroying the twin bees.

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
16bo$16bo2b2o$2o13bo5bo$2o14bobo2b2o$16bo3b2o$18b3o2$18b3o3bo$16bo3b2o
3bo$2o14bobo2b2o2bo$2o13bo5bo$16bo2b2o2bo$16bo$23b2o$21b2o!

Also, I found this, which starts to emit that glider, destroys it before it can escape, then creates a different glider, all without destroying the twin bees (at least not the first time).

Code: Select all

x = 26, y = 13, rule = B3/S23
16bo$16bo2b2o$2o13bo5bo$2o14bobo2b2o$16bo3b2o$18b3o2$18b3o3bo$16bo3b2o
3bo$2o14bobo2b2o2bo$2o13bo5bo$16bo2b2o2b2o$16bo!

[Goldtiger997]

I went ahead and completed the 56P6H1V0 gun:

56P6H1V0 gun.mc

(465.73 KiB) Downloaded 198 times

One of the guns in the quadrant that wwei23 constructed was out of phase by 32 ticks, but fortunately that was easy to fix. There's plenty of room for optimization if someone wants to, but it might be better to leave that to a script.

[wwei23]

One of the guns in the quadrant that wwei23 constructed was out of phase by 32 ticks, but fortunately that was easy to fix.

I think that this is going to look very lopsided compared to other guns, since one wing is different than the others.
EDIT: I originally intended to type something different responding to the quoted text, but changed my mind and forgot to remove it. I have decided to keep it to prevent giving Goldtiger997 a ghost notification. Sorry about that.

[praosylen]

Sorry this isn't immediately in the current vein of discussion, but I think this old reaction is worth bringing up on this thread:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5bo$5b3o$8bo4b2ob2obo$7b2o5bobob2o$14bo$12b2obo$13bo2bo$13bob2o$12b2o
bo$7b3o5bo$7bobo5bob2o$7b3o4b2ob2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!

If there's a sparker or arrangement of sparkers that can create a 3-cell blinker-to-TL push, that could yield new gun engines. Sadly from my experimentation it seems rather hard to convince a blinker to move that far away with only normal low-period sparkers... but perhaps there are ways I don't know about. This reaction with a theoretical blinker factory comes somewhat close:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 22, rule = LifeHistory
5.D$5.3D$8.D4.2D.2D.D$7.2D5.D.D.2D$14.D$12.2D.D$13.D2.D$13.D.2D$12.2D
.D$7.3D5.D$7.D.D5.D.2D$7.3D4.2D.2D$2.2C4.C4.2A$.C.C4.C4.A.A$.C6.C6.A$
2C13.2A$7.3A5$7.3E!

[Scorbie]

Sorry this isn't immediately in the current vein of discussion, but I think this old reaction is worth bringing up on this thread:

Seconded. Sorry for the little-value-post, but it's so soothing to know that the big catalyst can be cut off so many cells:

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 14, rule = B3/S23
13b2o$14bo$14bob2o$12b2obobo$13bobo$13bobo$12b2obob2o$7b3o5bob2o$7bobo
5bo$7b3o4b2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!

And the top eater might be replaced by some other osc.

[Sokwe]

Sorry this isn't immediately in the current vein of discussion, but I think this old reaction is worth bringing up on this thread:

Code: Select all

x = 20, y = 17, rule = B3/S23
5bo$5b3o$8bo4b2ob2obo$7b2o5bobob2o$14bo$12b2obo$13bo2bo$13bob2o$12b2o
bo$7b3o5bo$7bobo5bob2o$7b3o4b2ob2o$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o!

Indeed, it's good to periodically review the old patterns. We may see something that we didn't before, or new users might get introduced to an interesting old problem.

I took a new look at this, and I came up with an idea for a period-7 sparker that just might get us a p28 gun. Here are some partial results, where the rows show the pattern 7 phases apart (thanks to Scorbie for pointing out that the catalyst can be shrunk):

Code: Select all

x = 105, y = 109, rule = B3/S23
8b2o68b2o$9bo69bo$4b2o2bo65b2o2bo23bo$5bo2b4o63bo2b4o18b2obo$2b3o6bo
60b3o6bo8b2o7bobo$2bo2b4o10b2o6bo44bo2b4o10bo3bo2b2o3bo$5bo2bo9b3ob2ob
o49bo2bo9bo6bo8bo$18bo7bo61bobobo2b6o$10bo6bo2bob3o55bo6bo3b3ob2o3bobo
bo$9b3o5bo4bo3bo52b3o5bo12bo2bo$2b2o4b2ob2o4bo4bo49b2o4b2ob2o4bo14b2o$
bobo5b3o5bo4bo3bo44bobo5b3o5bo12bo2bo$bo8bo6bo2bob3o46bo8bo6bo3b3ob2o
3bobobo$2o16bo7bo43b2o16bobobo2b6o$18b3ob2obo62bo6bo8bo$12b2o5b2o6bo
54b2o5bo3bo2b2o3bo$12bo69bo7b2o7bobo$13b3o67b3o14b2obo$15bo69bo16bo12$
8b2o68b2o$9bo69bo$4b2o2bo65b2o2bo23bo$5bo2b4o63bo2b4o18b2obo$2b3o6bo
60b3o6bo8b2o7bobo$2bo2b4o10b2o6bo44bo2b4o10bo3bo2b2o3bo$4bo3bo9b3ob2ob
o48bo3bo9bo6bo8bo$5b2o11bo7bo48b2o11bobobo2b6o$6bo10bo2bob3o51bo10bo3b
3ob2o3bobobo$7b2o4bo3bo4bo3bo50b2o4bo3bo12bo2bo$2b2o2b3o4bo3bo4bo49b2o
2b3o4bo3bo14b2o$bobo3b2o4bo3bo4bo3bo44bobo3b2o4bo3bo12bo2bo$bo8bo6bo2b
ob3o46bo8bo6bo3b3ob2o3bobobo$2o7bo8bo7bo43b2o7bo8bobobo2b6o$9bo3bo4b3o
b2obo53bo3bo4bo6bo8bo$13bo5b2o6bo55bo5bo3bo2b2o3bo$12bo69bo7b2o7bobo$
13b3o67b3o14b2obo$15bo69bo16bo12$8b2o68b2o$9bo69bo$4b2o2bo65b2o2bo23bo
$5bo2b4o63bo2b4o18b2obo$2b3o6bo60b3o6bo8b2o7bobo$2bo2b4o10b2o6bo44bo2b
4o10bo3bo2b2o3bo$5bo2bo9b3ob2obo49bo2bo9bo6bo8bo$18bo7bo61bobobo2b6o$
17bo2bob3o62bo3b3ob2o3bobobo$13bo3bo4bo3bo56bo3bo12bo2bo$2b2o7b2ob2obo
4bo49b2o7b2ob2obo14b2o$bobo9bo3bo4bo3bo44bobo9bo3bo12bo2bo$bo15bo2bob
3o46bo15bo3b3ob2o3bobobo$2o5bobo8bo7bo43b2o5bobo8bobobo2b6o$7b2o9b3ob
2obo51b2o9bo6bo8bo$8bo3b2o5b2o6bo50bo3b2o5bo3bo2b2o3bo$12bo69bo7b2o7bo
bo$13b3o67b3o14b2obo$15bo69bo16bo12$8b2o68b2o$9bo69bo$4b2o2bo65b2o2bo
23bo$5bo2b4o63bo2b4o18b2obo$2b3o6bo60b3o6bo8b2o7bobo$2bo2b4o10b2o6bo
44bo2b4o10bo3bo2b2o3bo$5bo2bo9b3ob2obo49bo2bo9bo6bo8bo$18bo7bo61bobobo
2b6o$17bo2bob3o62bo3b3ob2o3bobobo$11bo5bo4bo3bo54bo5bo12bo2bo$2b2o5b2o
6bo4bo49b2o5b2o6bo14b2o$bobo7bo5bo4bo3bo44bobo7bo5bo12bo2bo$bo15bo2bob
3o46bo15bo3b3ob2o3bobobo$2o16bo7bo43b2o16bobobo2b6o$6bo11b3ob2obo50bo
11bo6bo8bo$5bo6b2o5b2o6bo47bo6b2o5bo3bo2b2o3bo$5b3o4bo62b3o4bo7b2o7bob
o$13b3o67b3o14b2obo$15bo69bo16bo!

There are a number of slightly different-looking potential heads with the same central core. I would consider solving this to be difficult, but not impossible.

[wwei23]

Is that w13?

[Sokwe]

Is that w13?

Yes, the second partial was found at rotor width 13. However, this shouldn't be taken to mean that I completed any lower-width search. I was just trying to create examples to show that the idea is possible.

[wwei23]

Yes, the second partial was found at rotor width 13.

Have you shown that there is no completion for this at w13 or is there still hope for this partial?
EDIT: Corrected typo.

[yujh]

No result according to wsl at 17*50, for the right ones.

[wwei23]

No result according to wsl at 17*50, for the right ones.

You ruled out w17? How good is your computer?

[yujh]

No result according to wsl at 17*50, for the right ones.

You ruled out w17? How good is your computer?

Idk, but I threw the first 13(11?) cols of the thing into it(that took it about 20 mins.)

[wwei23]

Idk, but I threw the first 13(11?) cols of the thing into it(that took it about 20 mins.)

Can you send a partial from the search?

[yujh]

Idk, but I threw the first 13(11?) cols of the thing into it(that took it about 20 mins.)

Can you send a partial from the search?

No, wsl doesn’t seem to be giving me anything but’ one more results’.

Edit: first 9 cols(11), w17,49, out.

[wwei23]

Since you seem to be able to deal with high-width rotors with such ease, can you try completing this partial? You'll probably have to slice off some rows first.

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 29, rule = B3/S23
11b2o$9bo4bo2$9bo4bo$9bo4bo$9b2o2b2o$8bobo2bobo$5bo3b2o2b2o3bo$4bo2b2o
2b2o2b2o2bo$4b3o4b2o4b3o$7bo8bo$4b2ob2o6b2ob2o$3bobobob2o2b2obobobo$3b
o3bo8bo3bo$2b2obobo3b2o3bobob2o$bo2b2o3b2o2b2o3b2o2bo$2bo3bo10bo3bo$3b
3ob10ob3o$11b2o$b3ob2o10b2ob3o$o2bobo4bo2bo4bobo2bo$bobobob3o4b3obobo
bo$2bo2b4o6b4o2bo$3b3o12b3o$7b2obo2bob2o$3b5o2b4o2b5o$3bo2b2o2bo2bo2b
2o2bo$2obo5b2o2b2o5bob2o$2ob2o14b2ob2o!

[Sokwe]

No result according to wsl at 17*50, for the right ones.

You ruled out w17? How good is your computer?

Idk, but I threw the first 13(11?) cols of the thing into it(that took it about 20 mins.)

It's not clear exactly what has been eliminated by this search. Based on my own searching, I think a 20 minute search would be insufficient to run a complete search at that width. If you still have the search setup, you can save it to a file and post it to the forums so that it can be analyzed.

[wwei23]

About P42 guns, there's also this old partial:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3552&start=50#p65629

[Sokwe]

I came up with an idea for a period-7 sparker that just might get us a p28 gun.

I managed to take a problem I couldn't solve and turn it into three problems I can't solve:

Code: Select all

x = 49, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
41b2o$9bo25b2o2bo2b3obo$9bob2o13b2o7bo3b2o4b2o$12bo13bobo7b3o2b3o$15bo
12bo2b2o5bobo3b5o$12bo2bo5b3o3b2obobo7bob2o4bo$11b2obo11bo3bo2b2o4bobo
2bo$13b3o6bo5bo2bob3o2b3o3b3o$14bo5bobobo3bo3bo5bob2obob2obo$19bo3bobo
4bobobo3bob2obo4bo$15b2o3b2obobobobo3bo5bo6b2o$22bo2bo3bob2o7b5o2bo$
11bo2bob2o4bob2obobobo13b2o$11b5o4b2obo2bob2obo10b2o$19b2o2bo2bo4b2o9b
o$8b2o3b5o3bobob2ob2o2bo10bo$9bo3bo5bo2b2o3bob2o11b2o$4b2o2bo6bobo6b3o
$5bo2b4o2b2obo2b4o11b2o$2b3o6bo12bo3b2o3bo2bo$2bo2b4o10bob4o3bobo2b2ob
ob2o$5bo2bo9b2o10b3o2bobobo$18bo2b2o6bo3bobo$17bo2bobo7bo2bobo9bo$13bo
3bo4bobobo2bo3bobobo5b3o$2b2o7b2ob2obo4bo3bo3b4o5bob2o$bobo9bo3bo4bobo
bo2bo3bo2b2obobo3b2o$bo15bo2bobo7bo2bobo3bobo4bo$2o5bobo8bo2b2o6bo3bob
4o3bobo$7b2o9b2o10b3o5bobobob2o$8bo3b2o5bob4o3bobo2b3o3b2obo2bo$12bo
11bo3b2o3bo2bo6b2o$13b3obo2b4o11b2o$10b3o2bobo6b3o$10bo2bo5bo2b2o3bob
2o11b2o$13b5o3bobob2ob2o2bo10bo$19b2o2bo2bo4b2o9bo$11b5o4b2obo2bob2obo
10b2o$11bo2bob2o4bob2obobobo13b2o$22bo2bo3bob2o7b5o2bo$15b2o3b2obobobo
bo3bo5bo6b2o$19bo3bobo4bobobo3bob2obo4bo$14bo5bobobo3bo3bo5bob2obob2ob
o$13b3o6bo5bo2bob3o2b3o3b3o$11b2obo11bo3bo2b2o4bobo2bo$12bo2bo5b3o3b2o
bobo7bob2o4bo$15bo12bo2b2o5bobo3b5o$12bo13bobo7b3o2b3o$9bob2o13b2o7bo
3b2o4b2o$9bo25b2o2bo2b3obo$41b2o!

I'm not sure if this is forward movement towards a solution or merely lateral movement. Each of the three incomplete branches look like they might be easier to solve than the direct symmetric search, but I still haven't managed to solve a single branch.

[wwei23]

I'm not sure if this is forward movement towards a solution or merely lateral movement. Each of the three incomplete branches look like they might be easier to solve than the direct symmetric search, but I still haven't managed to solve a single branch.

I think that this won't work. You're choosing asymmetry over symmetry, and I have a feeling that that makes the search harder.

[Sokwe]

I'm not sure if this is forward movement towards a solution or merely lateral movement. Each of the three incomplete branches look like they might be easier to solve than the direct symmetric search, but I still haven't managed to solve a single branch.

I think that this won't work. You're choosing asymmetry over symmetry, and I have a feeling that that makes the search harder.

Each asymmetric part has points where the rotor becomes thin. This often yields a large number of continuations which in turn can give a higher chance of finding a solution. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but it's certainly possible that solving these branches is easier than finding a direct symmetric solution.

[Sokwe]

Here's a completion of the central branch of the p7:

Code: Select all

x = 54, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
41b2o$9bo25b2o2bo2b3obo$9bob2o13b2o7bo3b2o4b2o$12bo13bobo7b3o2b3o$15bo
12bo2b2o5bobo3b5o$12bo2bo5b3o3b2obobo7bob2o4bo$11b2obo11bo3bo2b2o4bobo
2bo$13b3o6bo5bo2bob3o2b3o3b3o$14bo5bobobo3bo3bo5bob2obob2obo$19bo3bobo
4bobobo3bob2obo4bo$15b2o3b2obobobobo3bo5bo6b2o$22bo2bo3bob2o7b5o2bo$
11bo2bob2o4bob2obobobo13b2o$11b5o4b2obo2bob2obo10b2o$19b2o2bo2bo4b2o9b
o$8b2o3b5o3bobob2ob2o13bo$9bo3bo5bo2b2o3bobob2o11bo$4b2o2bo6bobo6b3o2b
obo11b2o$5bo2b4o2b2obo2b4o5bobo3b2o2b2obo2b2o3bo$2b3o6bo12bo5bo4bo2bob
ob2o2bo3b3o$2bo2b4o10bob4o6b3obob2o7bob2o3bo$5bo2bo9b2o13bobo2bo2b5obo
3b2o$18bo2b2o10bo2bobobo2bo3bobobo$17bo2bobo12bo2bob2o2bob2o5bo$13bo3b
o4bobobo2b7obo4b3obobob4o$2b2o7b2ob2obo4bo3bo2bo2b2o5b2obobobob2o$bobo
9bo3bo4bobobo3bo3bobo2bo2bo2bobo3b3o$bo15bo2bobo7bo3bobo2b2obo4bob2o2b
o$2o5bobo8bo2b2o8b2ob2ob2o2bo5b2obo$7b2o9b2o12bo4bo2bo$8bo3b2o5bob4o7b
ob2obo3b3o$12bo11bo8b2obo6bo$13b3obo2b4o$10b3o2bobo6b3o$10bo2bo5bo2b2o
3bob2o11b2o$13b5o3bobob2ob2o2bo10bo$19b2o2bo2bo4b2o9bo$11b5o4b2obo2bob
2obo10b2o$11bo2bob2o4bob2obobobo13b2o$22bo2bo3bob2o7b5o2bo$15b2o3b2obo
bobobo3bo5bo6b2o$19bo3bobo4bobobo3bob2obo4bo$14bo5bobobo3bo3bo5bob2obo
b2obo$13b3o6bo5bo2bob3o2b3o3b3o$11b2obo11bo3bo2b2o4bobo2bo$12bo2bo5b3o
3b2obobo7bob2o4bo$15bo12bo2b2o5bobo3b5o$12bo13bobo7b3o2b3o$9bob2o13b2o
7bo3b2o4b2o$9bo25b2o2bo2b3obo$41b2o!

I expect the other branches to be more difficult.

[wwei23]

I hate to complain after one branch has been completed, but I'd recommend branching out lower down, to improve the clearance. Them we'd have a nice, general-purpose P7 sparker in our hands.

[otismo]

Excellent !

Nice Work !

Now, we need to remove one gun, the signal gun,

such that the balance of the reaction collapses

cleanly without it, just like the Loafer Guns -

Thank You !

Cheers !

[dvgrn]

Now, we need to remove one gun, the signal gun,

such that the balance of the reaction collapses

cleanly without it, just like the Loafer Guns -

That's nice in theory, but in practice there are very few minimal-glider-count spaceship recipes that mutually annihilate if you remove one glider.

There's no problem setting up a recipe that does that with a few gliders more than the minimal glider count, though. This is just a first-thing-that-worked example, not a good solution:

Code: Select all

#C [[ AUTOSTART X -8 Y -112 Z 1.36 STEP 5 ]]
#C [[ COLOR LABEL Yellow ]]
#C [[ LABEL 180 355 1 "'signal gun'" ]]
#C [[ ARROWT 1000 1500 100 ]]
#C [[ LABELT 1000 1500 100 ]]
#C [[ ARROW 300 300 222 259 2 ]]
#C [[ LABEL 320 260 2 "Here comes the glider\nto suppress the signal gun!" ]]
x = 541, y = 590, rule = LifeHistory
238.2A9.2A$155.2A5.2A74.2A9.A2.A$155.2A5.2A20.2A$185.A67.A$185.A.A5.
2A$186.2A3.A3.A55.2A$190.A5.A8.2A43.A$189.2A.A3.A8.2A31.3A$190.A5.A$
191.A3.A42.A.A6.2A3.2A$193.2A42.5A5.2A3.2A$236.2A3.2A5.5A$236.2A3.2A
6.A.A$155.3A3.3A$154.A3.A.A3.A56.2A26.3A$153.A3.2A.2A3.A55.A.A7.2A6.A
$153.A.2A5.2A.A55.A.2A6.2A7.2A$155.A7.A43.A14.2A$205.3A14.A19.A2.A$
204.A37.A2.A.A$205.3A14.A15.A9.2A$207.A14.2A17.A6.2A$221.A.2A13.2A8.
2A$161.3A57.A.A21.A.A$161.A.A57.2A22.A$160.A3.A$160.A3.A$120.2A$120.
2A33.2A4.3A33.2A$155.2A40.A.A$121.A66.3A.2A4.3A$120.A.A65.4A2.A4.3A$
120.A.A69.2A4.3A$121.A26.A48.A.A$147.A.A47.2A$140.2A4.A.2A73.A$118.2A
.A.2A15.2A3.2A.2A72.A$118.A5.A21.A.2A55.3A14.3A$76.2A41.A3.A23.A.A55.
A.A$76.2A42.3A25.A56.3A25.A3.A5.A.2A$161.A43.3A24.A5.A4.A.A.A$89.3A
68.3A42.3A24.A9.A4.A$87.2A.A.2A8.3A8.2A44.5A41.3A24.2A3.A5.A.A.A$87.
2A5.A5.A3.A8.2A43.2A3.2A40.A.A26.3A6.A.2A$87.2A.A.2A5.A4.A100.3A$89.
3A7.A3.A23.2A105.3A$126.3A67.A35.2A3.A$99.A3.A19.A.2A9.2A22.3A19.2A
10.3A35.A15.2A$99.A4.A18.A2.A4.A5.A22.3A18.A2.A8.A38.A5.A9.2A$76.3A7.
2A12.A3.A18.A.2A5.A47.A.A.A8.2A38.A3.A$75.A3.A6.2A14.3A13.A7.3A3.A3.A
43.A.A.2A29.2A$66.A.A5.A5.A35.2A9.2A5.A25.2A16.2A.A.A3.A3.A23.2A5.A$
66.A3.A4.A3.A37.2A41.2A16.A2.A2.2A.A2.A.A28.3A$70.A5.3A96.2A.A.A.A4.A
3.2A2.2A23.A.A.A$56.2A8.A4.A4.3A96.A2.2A2.A.2A9.2A24.A2.A$56.2A12.A
105.2A3.A2.A18.A17.3A$66.A3.A107.2A.2A.A18.A.A16.A$66.A.A109.A4.A19.
2A$179.4A$180.A$178.A135.2C$71.2A105.2A35.A7.A71.C18.2C12.2C.C.2C$71.
2A157.2A62.C.C24.C.2C.C2.C.2C2.C$213.3A7.3A4.2A62.C.C24.2C.C.2C.C4.C.
C7.2C$214.2A.2A.2A.2A68.2C.2C31.5C.C8.2C$72.A5.A136.3A3.3A68.C5.C26.
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[bubblegum]

Now, we need to remove one gun, the signal gun,

such that the balance of the reaction collapses

cleanly without it, just like the Loafer Guns -

That's nice in theory, but in practice there are very few minimal-glider-count spaceship recipes that mutually annihilate if you remove one glider.

There's no problem setting up a recipe that does that with a few gliders more than the minimal glider count, though. This is just a first-thing-that-worked example, not a good solution:

Code: Select all

snip

That collapses with the signal gun (it should collapse without it).

Also in the future could we keep gun discussion here? Just cross-post otismo, don't dig up threads from 2018.