Hook-with-tail stacker?

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Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by dvgrn » March 29th, 2020, 7:42 pm

otismo wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 4:21 pm
do you have a rake that makes the eater string in your avatar - it looks impossible...
It would have to be multiple rakes, unless someone wants to build a (5,4)-offset spaceship like Chris Cain's camelship, and include a seed constellation for those gliders, and a trigger for it, as part of the recipe. Perfectly doable, but a lot of work.

With rakes, I think the glider coming from the southeast would have to come from an orthogonal rake; otherwise the still life extension will eventually get mixed up with the rake. The other gliders could be produced by either diagonal or orthogonal rakes, with many different possible periods that might all be a little painful to figure out in practice.

If I had to build something like this, I'd rather use multiple slide guns than try to sort out a compatible set of rakes. And rather than do that, I'd just program a universal constructor to build seed constellations for two iterations of the reaction. It has to be two iterations, because adjacent reactions are on different colors.

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Re: Small Spaceship Syntheses

Post by otismo » March 30th, 2020, 10:02 am

dvgrn wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 7:42 pm
otismo wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 4:21 pm
do you have a rake that makes the eater string in your avatar - it looks impossible...
It would have to be multiple rakes, unless someone wants to build a (5,4)-offset spaceship like Chris Cain's camelship, and include a seed constellation for those gliders, and a trigger for it, as part of the recipe. Perfectly doable, but a lot of work.

With rakes, I think the glider coming from the southeast would have to come from an orthogonal rake; otherwise the still life extension will eventually get mixed up with the rake. The other gliders could be produced by either diagonal or orthogonal rakes, with many different possible periods that might all be a little painful to figure out in practice.

If I had to build something like this, I'd rather use multiple slide guns than try to sort out a compatible set of rakes. And rather than do that, I'd just program a universal constructor to build seed constellations for two iterations of the reaction. It has to be two iterations, because adjacent reactions are on different colors.

here is the seed glider constellation :

Code: Select all

x = 24, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
3bo$bobo$2b2o9bo$11b2o$12b2o7bobo$16bo4b2o$16bobo3bo$4bobo9b2o$5b2o$5b
o4$9b2o$8b2o$3b2o5bo$3bo$2obo$obo!

as far as I know, there is no across-the-universe string-making capability extant

this will be important at the Max Planck Institute...
In the Game of Life there are no winners there are no losers there are only SURVIVORS.
.....**
...****
.******
*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*

Code: Select all

#CXRLE Pos=0,0
x = 26, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
23bo$23bobo$23b2o9$2b3o2$o5bo$o5bo$o5bo2$2b3o5b2o$10b2o3$2b2o$2b2o10$
15b2o$15b2o!

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by dvgrn » March 30th, 2020, 7:10 pm

This is getting highly off-topic for the Small Spaceship Syntheses thread; it was only marginally relevant even when it might have been a rake producing all the wall-stretching gliders. Will move to a separate thread in Patterns, I guess.
otismo wrote:
March 30th, 2020, 10:02 am
dvgrn wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 7:42 pm
If I had to build something like this, I'd rather use multiple slide guns than try to sort out a compatible set of rakes. And rather than do that, I'd just program a universal constructor to build seed constellations for two iterations of the reaction. It has to be two iterations, because adjacent reactions are on different colors.
here is the seed glider constellation...
Okay, here's an example Blockic constellation that _could_ be fed into slsparse, to get a recipe that could be fed into a construction arm via a memory-loop gun to make a Goldtiger997-hook-with-tail-stacker. Again, it would have to be compiled twice by slsparse, producing two completely different recipes, one for each color... and then I guess you'd have to bend the resulting slow salvo past a second elbow, and move the first single-channel elbow and the second slow^2 elbow appropriately, so that the arm gets slightly longer with every pair of hook-with-tail construction jobs.

I think construction gliders would have to come from the direction the trigger glider is shown coming from, below. Otherwise the wall of hooks-with-tail will eventually run into the construction arm.

Code: Select all

x = 199, y = 209, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23b2o$114b2o$114b2o$18b2o$18b2o2$105b2o$105b2o2$88b2o$88b2o$10b
2o94b2o$10b2o94b2o$86b2o$86b2o$68b2o128bo$14b2o52b2o2b2o122b2o$14b2o
56b2o11b2o110b2o$85b2o2$13b2o110b2o$13b2o110b2o3$2o6b2o67b2o$2o6b2o67b
2o37b2o$116b2o3$103b2o$2o101b2o12b2o$2o115b2o$98b2o$9b2o87b2o8b2o$9b2o
97b2o4$98b2o$98b2o2$89b2o44b2o$89b2o44b2o5$156b2o$86b2o17b2o49b2o$86b
2o17b2o3$81b2o17b2o$81b2o17b2o2$74b2o$74b2o3$79b2o$79b2o31b2o13b2o$
112b2o13b2o3$117b2o$117b2o15$68b2o43b2o$68b2o43b2o$16b2o$16b2o$73b2o
43b2o$73b2o43b2o4b2o$124b2o2$102b2o$102b2o10b2o$68b2o23b2o19b2o15b2o$
13b2o53b2o23b2o36b2o$13b2o$102b2o$29b2o71b2o11b2o$22b2o5b2o58b2o24b2o$
22b2o65b2o2$34b2o$34b2o35b2o46b2o$71b2o46b2o2$26b2o$26b2o34b2o$62b2o2$
21b2o99b2o$21b2o99b2o2$27b2o102b2o$27b2o12b2o88b2o$41b2o2$100b2o$31b2o
13b2o52b2o63b2o$31b2o8b2o3b2o70b2o45b2o$41b2o75b2o3$36b2o$36b2o2$97b2o
56b2o$97b2o56b2o3b2o$160b2o2$106b2o$106b2o$149b2o$49b2o98b2o$49bo$46b
2obo$46bobo2$162b2o$162b2o2$153b2o$153b2o7$68b2o$68b2o4$64b2o$64b2o11b
2o$77b2o3$89b2o$77b2o10b2o$77b2o12$150b2o$150b2o8$153b2o$153b2o3$144b
2o$144b2o19$127b2o$127b2o3$132b2o$132b2o!

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toroidalet
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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by toroidalet » March 30th, 2020, 7:19 pm

I'm too lazy to rearrange the block circuitry, but you can replace a glider with a block and simplify it:

Code: Select all

x = 199, y = 209, rule = B3/S23
23b2o$23b2o$114b2o$114b2o$18b2o$18b2o2$105b2o$105b2o2$88b2o$88b2o$10b
2o94b2o$10b2o94b2o$86b2o$86b2o$68b2o128bo$14b2o52b2o2b2o122b2o$14b2o
56b2o11b2o110b2o$85b2o2$13b2o110b2o$13b2o110b2o3$2o6b2o67b2o$2o6b2o67b
2o37b2o$116b2o3$103b2o$2o101b2o12b2o$2o115b2o$98b2o$9b2o87b2o8b2o$9b2o
97b2o4$98b2o$98b2o2$89b2o44b2o$89b2o44b2o5$156b2o$86b2o17b2o49b2o$86b
2o17b2o3$81b2o17b2o$81b2o17b2o2$74b2o$74b2o3$79b2o$79b2o31b2o13b2o$
112b2o13b2o3$117b2o$117b2o15$68b2o43b2o$68b2o43b2o$16b2o$16b2o$73b2o
43b2o$73b2o43b2o4b2o$124b2o4$68b2o23b2o36b2o$13b2o53b2o23b2o36b2o$13b
2o2$29b2o$22b2o5b2o58b2o$22b2o65b2o2$34b2o$34b2o35b2o$71b2o2$26b2o$26b
2o34b2o$62b2o2$21b2o99b2o$21b2o99b2o2$27b2o102b2o$27b2o12b2o88b2o$41b
2o2$100b2o$31b2o13b2o52b2o63b2o$31b2o8b2o3b2o70b2o45b2o$41b2o75b2o3$
36b2o$36b2o2$97b2o56b2o$97b2o56b2o3b2o$160b2o2$106b2o$61b2o43b2o$61b2o
86b2o$49b2o98b2o$49bo$46b2obo$46bobo2$162b2o$162b2o2$153b2o$153b2o31$
150b2o$150b2o8$153b2o$153b2o3$144b2o$144b2o19$127b2o$127b2o3$132b2o$
132b2o!
It might also be possible to synthesize the loaf with slow salvo instead of using a glider collision, and maybe even reduce that boat insertion to a collision with some still lives.
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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by dvgrn » March 30th, 2020, 10:28 pm

toroidalet wrote:
March 30th, 2020, 7:19 pm
I'm too lazy to rearrange the block circuitry, but you can replace a glider with a block and simplify it:
...
It might also be possible to synthesize the loaf with slow salvo instead of using a glider collision, and maybe even reduce that boat insertion to a collision with some still lives.
Thanks, yeah, I didn't even really look at the synthesis to see if there was something better. It was time for my bi-annual Practice Using OTTs to Synchronize Six Gliders... it's important to do that every now and then to remember how bad I am at it, and how nice it would be to have some kind of search utility to put things like that together automatically. Huge improvements in that Blockic constellation are definitely possible, partly by using a different initial splitter that doesn't have exactly the wrong relative timing between the gliders.

If someone can find a stable constellation that can be hit with a glider to make that pre-boat, then it becomes really easy to feed the loaf plus that constellation into slsparse, and find out how to build the whole thing with a slow salvo. The suppressing block isn't really needed; it would be better to leave the blinker for the next round of construction, anyway -- it's easy enough to turn it into a block at whatever location a new target is wanted.

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by otismo » March 31st, 2020, 2:45 am

I can see now this isn't going to be easy...

Here I thought I was doing pretty good with a simple rake;

four out of six with one bogy, and maybe time to start looking at slide guns, etc.

Code: Select all

x = 103, y = 121, rule = B3/S23
81bo2bo$85bo$81bo3bo$82b4o13b4o$98bo3bo$102bo$98bo2bo$79b3o$78bo3bobob
o10bo$78bo7bo10b3o$73bo5b2o15bo3bo$71bobo19b3o4bo$72b2o10bo8b3obob2o$
93b2o3bo$95bobo$68bo$66bobo$67b2o23b2o5b4o$90b2ob2o3bo3bo$90b4o8bo$63b
o27b2o5bo2bo$61bobo$62b2o3$58bo$56bobo$57b2o6b2o$64b4o$64b2ob2o$53bo
12b2o15b2o$51bobo27b2ob2o$52b2o27b4o$82b2o$63bo$48bo13b3o3b2o$46bobo
12b5ob3o9b3o$47b2o5bobo8b3o9bo3b2o$55b2o8b3o9bobo2b2o$55bo10bo9bo5bo$
43bo21bo11bo2b2o$41bobo33bo$42b2o5bobo27bo$50b2o20bo2bo$50bo25bo6b2o$
38bo33bo3bo4b2ob2o$36bobo34b4o4b4o$37b2o5bobo35b2o$45b2o$45bo$33bo$31b
obo$32b2o5bobo$40b2o$40bo$28bo$26bobo$27b2o5bobo29b2o5b4o$35b2o27b2ob
2o3bo3bo$35bo28b4o8bo$23bo41b2o5bo2bo$21bobo$22b2o5bobo38b2o$30b2o22bo
b2o11b5o$30bo21bo5bo10bo4bo$18bo39bo10b3o2bo$16bobo33bo5bo11bo2b2o$17b
2o5bobo26bo3bo2b2o9b2o$25b2o27b3o3b2o$25bo$13bo$11bobo59b4o$12b2o5bobo
21bo28bo3bo$20b2o19b2o12b4o17bo$20bo21b2o10bo3bo13bo2bo$8bo49bo$6bobo
45bo2bo$7b2o5bobo11bo$15b2o9b2o$15bo11b2o$3bo$bobo$2b2o5bobobo$10b3o$
10bob2o7bobo$16bo4b2o$16bobo3bo$4bobo9b2o$5b2o$5bo4$9b2o$8b2o$3b2o5bo$
3bo$2obo$obo21b2o$23b2o$25bo$51bo2bo$55bo$39b2o10bo3bo13bo2bo$38b2o12b
4o17bo$40bo28bo3bo$70b4o3$51b3o3b2o$50bo3bo2b2o9b2o$49bo5bo11bo2b2o$
55bo10b3o2bo$49bo5bo10bo4bo$51bob2o11b5o$67b2o2$62b2o5bo2bo$61b4o8bo$
61b2ob2o3bo3bo$63b2o5b4o!

You guys are contemplating something like the Linear Loafer Gun;

it is going to be a challenge for me just to keep up with all of it -

to follow what in the heck you are doing - Thank You for trying !
In the Game of Life there are no winners there are no losers there are only SURVIVORS.
.....**
...****
.******
*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*

Code: Select all

#CXRLE Pos=0,0
x = 26, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
23bo$23bobo$23b2o9$2b3o2$o5bo$o5bo$o5bo2$2b3o5b2o$10b2o3$2b2o$2b2o10$
15b2o$15b2o!

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by dvgrn » March 31st, 2020, 9:57 am

otismo wrote:
March 31st, 2020, 2:45 am
...four out of six with one bogy, and maybe time to start looking at slide guns, etc.
Yeah, but it's only a very theoretical four out of six. With those rake periods, your second and later constructions won't work because (a) the gliders are coming in way too soon, before the previous reaction has finished, and (b) the second round of gliders won't line up with the hook-with-tail wick.

In other words, your construction site will be traveling orthogonally to the right at c/2, whereas you really need it to be traveling obliquely at a (5,-4) step, with a repeat rate somewhere around this (or it can be slower):

Code: Select all

x = 65, y = 66, rule = B3/S23
2bo$obo$b2o53bo$54b2o$55b2o$59bo$59bobo$3bobo53b2o$4b2o$4bo6$8bo$6bobo
$7b2o31bo$38b2o$39b2o$43bo$43bobo$9bobo31b2o$10b2o$10bo6$14bo$12bobo$
13b2o9bo$22b2o$23b2o$27bo$27bobo$15bobo9b2o$16b2o$16bo4$20b2o$19b2o$
14b2o5bo$14bo$11b2obo$11bobo$31bo$30b2o4b2o$30bobo2b2o$37bo4$47bo$46b
2o4b2o$46bobo2b2o$53bo4$63bo$62b2o$62bobo!
Here I've replaced the blinker cleanup glider with one that would be a little easier to construct near its neighbors.

Unfortunately there aren't any elementary rakes that alternate between glider colors the way these streams do. So you'd have to use higher-period rakes, twice as many of them, and interleave the outputs.

There might be some way to find vertical rakes and horizontal rakes with slightly different periods to account for the slight Doppler effect as the construction site recedes more quickly from one rake than from the other, and generate the gliders coming SW by colliding gliders from the NW and gliders from the SE. (Can't use diagonal high-period backrakes, like ones based on Corderships, because they'd have to move over a half-diagonal after every glider -- we don't have anything like that except for huge slow self-constructing stuff.) The math is a little tricky, but not too bad -- but it definitely won't work to just ignore the problem and drop in any old rakes.

Short summary: a universal-constructor-based solution is actually the easy way to build a hook-with-tail stacker. Slide guns might not be too bad either, but you would still have to figure out the Doppler-shift math.

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by otismo » March 31st, 2020, 4:09 pm

you have certainly scrutinized the situation way better than me

the uc-blockic-loafer is probably enough for me -

it's all I can do to just watch it -

uc stuff is the biggest wow right now, but I am not god with infinite time and space;

regarding space, if I HAD a big enough display, and we used quarter-inch cells, how many football fields long would it have to be -

wait, uc is DIAGONAL, we only need the hypotenuse...
In the Game of Life there are no winners there are no losers there are only SURVIVORS.
.....**
...****
.******
*( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*

Code: Select all

#CXRLE Pos=0,0
x = 26, y = 34, rule = B3/S23
23bo$23bobo$23b2o9$2b3o2$o5bo$o5bo$o5bo2$2b3o5b2o$10b2o3$2b2o$2b2o10$
15b2o$15b2o!

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by dvgrn » March 31st, 2020, 4:38 pm

otismo wrote:
March 31st, 2020, 4:09 pm
regarding space, if I HAD a big enough display, and we used quarter-inch cells, how many football fields long would it have to be -

wait, uc is DIAGONAL, we only need the hypotenuse...
The linear p8388608 loafer gun? That shouldn't be a terribly tricky calculation. .25 times root 2 times 1048740 cells (widest diameter including construction area, more or less), divided by 4620 inches per football field, is just over eighty football fields including the end zones.

But have you seen the other form of that loafer gun? The double-double-spiral version would easily fit on three side-to-side football fields, even without the end zones, because it's not so ridiculously long and skinny.

On the other hand, your computer may have a harder time running it, because HashLife really doesn't like parallel streams running in opposite directions.

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Re: Hook-with-tail stacker?

Post by GUYTU6J » April 8th, 2020, 12:04 am

Maybe we can expand the scope of this thread to Extendable-synthesis-based Wickstretchers, so that things like the following don't get forgotten somewhere else.
dvgrn wrote:
February 9th, 2020, 9:34 am
GUYTU6J wrote:
February 8th, 2020, 11:05 pm
With some edgeshooting house and boat-tie-house reactions, a wickstretching mechanism is likely doable. However I've not found one.
With the recipe that starts with a boat and ends with a new tied boat, this wickstretcher recipe comes to mind immediately:

Code: Select all

x = 268, y = 267, rule = LifeSuper
4.W$5.2W248.W$4.2W247.2W$254.2W10.W$265.W$265.3W2$245.W$245.W.W$245.
2W9$250.S$17.S230.2S$18.2S229.2S$6.S10.2S$7.S$5.3S2$27.S$25.S.S$26.2S
9$22.O$23.2O212.O$22.2O211.2O$236.2O10.O$247.O$247.3O2$227.O$227.O.O$
227.2O9$232.M$35.M194.2M$36.2M193.2M$24.M10.2M$25.M$23.3M2$45.M$43.M.
M$44.2M9$40.pA$41.2pA176.pA$40.2pA175.2pA$218.2pA10.pA$229.pA$229.3pA
2$209.pA$209.pA.pA$209.2pA9$214.W$53.W158.2W$54.2W157.2W$42.W10.2W$
43.W$41.3W2$63.W$61.W.W$62.2W9$58.S$59.2S140.S$58.2S139.2S$200.2S10.S
$211.S$211.3S2$191.S$191.S.S$191.2S9$196.O$71.O122.2O$72.2O121.2O$60.
O10.2O$61.O$59.3O2$81.O$79.O.O$80.2O9$76.M$77.2M104.M$76.2M103.2M$
182.2M10.M$193.M$193.3M2$173.M$173.M.M$173.2M9$178.pA$89.pA86.2pA$90.
2pA85.2pA$78.pA10.2pA$79.pA$77.3pA2$99.pA$97.pA.pA$98.2pA9$94.W$95.2W
68.W$94.2W67.2W$164.2W10.W$175.W$175.3W2$155.W$155.W.W$155.2W9$160.S$
107.S50.2S$108.2S49.2S$96.S10.2S$97.S$95.3S2$117.S$115.S.S$116.2S9$
112.O$113.2O32.O$112.2O31.2O$146.2O10.O$157.O$157.3O2$137.O$137.O.O$
137.2O9$142.M$125.M14.2M$126.2M13.2M$114.M10.2M$115.M$113.3M2$135.M$
133.M.M$134.2M3$130.pA$3W15.3O15.3pA15.3S15.3M15.3W15.3O18.pA.pA12.3M
15.3S15.3pA15.3O15.3W15.3M15.3S$2.W17.O17.pA17.S17.M17.W17.O19.2pA12.
M17.S17.pA17.O17.W17.M17.S$.W17.O17.pA17.S17.M17.W17.O22.2pA11.M17.S
17.pA17.O17.W17.M17.S$9.3S15.3M15.3W15.3O15.3pA15.3S15.3M12.pA.pA18.
3O15.3W15.3M15.3S15.3pA15.3O15.3W$11.S17.M17.W17.O17.pA17.S17.M14.pA
2.2pA14.O17.W17.M17.S17.pA17.O17.W$10.S17.M17.W17.O17.pA17.S17.M14.MpA
.pA.pA15.O17.W17.M17.S17.pA17.O17.W$136.pA$133.2M.pA.pA$134.M2.2pA$
132.W.W$132.2W$130.2W$129.W.W$125.2W2.W$125.W.W.WM$127.W$125.W.W.2M$
125.2W2.M$129.S.S$130.2S!
#C [[ THUMBNAIL THUMBSIZE 2 AUTOSTART Y 104 Z 8 TRACKLOOP 36 0 -1/4 ]]
Plain two-state RLE:

Code: Select all

x = 268, y = 267, rule = B3/S23
4bo$5b2o248bo$4b2o247b2o$254b2o10bo$265bo$265b3o2$245bo$245bobo$245b2o
9$250bo$17bo230b2o$18b2o229b2o$6bo10b2o$7bo$5b3o2$27bo$25bobo$26b2o9$
22bo$23b2o212bo$22b2o211b2o$236b2o10bo$247bo$247b3o2$227bo$227bobo$
227b2o9$232bo$35bo194b2o$36b2o193b2o$24bo10b2o$25bo$23b3o2$45bo$43bobo
$44b2o9$40bo$41b2o176bo$40b2o175b2o$218b2o10bo$229bo$229b3o2$209bo$
209bobo$209b2o9$214bo$53bo158b2o$54b2o157b2o$42bo10b2o$43bo$41b3o2$63b
o$61bobo$62b2o9$58bo$59b2o140bo$58b2o139b2o$200b2o10bo$211bo$211b3o2$
191bo$191bobo$191b2o9$196bo$71bo122b2o$72b2o121b2o$60bo10b2o$61bo$59b
3o2$81bo$79bobo$80b2o9$76bo$77b2o104bo$76b2o103b2o$182b2o10bo$193bo$
193b3o2$173bo$173bobo$173b2o9$178bo$89bo86b2o$90b2o85b2o$78bo10b2o$79b
o$77b3o2$99bo$97bobo$98b2o9$94bo$95b2o68bo$94b2o67b2o$164b2o10bo$175bo
$175b3o2$155bo$155bobo$155b2o9$160bo$107bo50b2o$108b2o49b2o$96bo10b2o$
97bo$95b3o2$117bo$115bobo$116b2o9$112bo$113b2o32bo$112b2o31b2o$146b2o
10bo$157bo$157b3o2$137bo$137bobo$137b2o9$142bo$125bo14b2o$126b2o13b2o$
114bo10b2o$115bo$113b3o2$135bo$133bobo$134b2o3$130bo$3o15b3o15b3o15b3o
15b3o15b3o15b3o18bobo12b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o$2bo17bo17bo
17bo17bo17bo17bo19b2o12bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo$bo17bo17bo17bo17bo
17bo17bo22b2o11bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo$9b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b
3o15b3o12bobo18b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o15b3o$11bo17bo17bo17bo17bo
17bo17bo14bo2b2o14bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo$10bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo
17bo14b2obobo15bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo17bo$136bo$133b2obobo$134bo2b2o$
132bobo$132b2o$130b2o$129bobo$125b2o2bo$125bobob2o$127bo$125bobob2o$
125b2o2bo$129bobo$130b2o!

Code: Select all

x = 33, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
4b2o$4b2o8bobo11b2o$15b2o11bobo$15bo14bo$30b2o$15b2o10b2obo$14bo2bo8bo
bobobo$15bobo9bo3b2o$16bo4$3bob2o$b3ob2o13b2o$o19b2o$b3ob2o6b2o$3bobo
7b2o$3bobo$4bo!
#C [[ PASTET 31 PASTE o$o! 15 -11 ]]

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