ConwayLife.com

• What catalyst are you trying to use?
  • A fishhook:
    • Does the fishhook look like one of these?

      Code: Select all

      x = 15, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
      bo10bo2$obo7b2obo$2bo10bo$2b2o9b2o!

      • Yes.
        Try switching the position of the tail.
        • The tail is now in the wrong position for another catalysis.
          Try replacing the fishhook with an eater 2.
      • No.
        Does the fishhook turn into a ghost fishhook?
        • Yes.
          Why did the fishhook become a ghost fishhook?
          • The cell two cells in front of the fishhook (from the fishhook's perspective) was on.
            Try moving the fishhook one cell down (from the fishhook's perspective) or replacing it with this.

            Code: Select all

            x = 13, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
            b2o$bobo$3bo$3b3o$b2o3bo$o2b4o$2obo$3bob2o$3bobo$2b2obobo$6b2o

          • A domino spark blocked the fishhook from recovering properly.
            Try replacing the fishhook with one of these.

            Code: Select all

            x = 13, y = 43, rule = B3/S23
            11$7b2o$7bobo$9bo$8b2ob2o$9bobo$6b3o2bo$5bo3b2o$5b4o$8bo$5b2obobo$6bo2b2o$4bobo$4b2o12$5b2o$5bobo$7bo$6b2ob2obo$2b2o2bo2bob2o$bobo3b2o$bo$2o!

        • No.
          Does the fishhook fail because it interacts with a spark while it's still recovering or because it recovers too quickly and interacts with a spark before the spark had time to clear?
          • Yes
            Does the fishhook fail because it interacts with a domino spark like this?

            Code: Select all

            x = 7, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
            o$o3bo$2b2obo$5bo$5b2o!

            • Yes.
              Try replacing the fishhook with a BTS (bookend-table-snake) catalyst.
            • No.
              Try replacing the fishhook with an eater 2.
          • No.
            Is the preblock replaced with a boat because the bottom end (from the fishhook's perspective) of the part of the chaos that interacts with the fishhook is insufficiently supported, and there is a line of cells extending far enough upwards (from the fishhook's perspective) that it forms a dot or domino spark that turns a hook with tail into a boat with tail?
            • Yes.
              Is the spark a dot spark or a domino spark?
              • a dot spark
                Try replacing the fishhook with a claw with tail or a dock on fishhook.
              • a domino spark
                Try replacing the fishhook with a claw with tail.
            • No.
              Does the fishhook look like one of these?

              Code: Select all

              x = 15, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
              11bo$2o9b2o$obo8bobo$obo10bo$2b2o9b2o!

              • Yes.
                Try replacing the fishhook with a bookend next to a fishhook where the bookeend is inducted (induced?) and has the cell at the corner of its tail further stabilized.

                Code: Select all

                x = 6, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
                2o$obob2o$2bobo$b2o2bo$3b2o$b2o$2bo$2bobo$3b2o!

  • An eater 2:
    Does the eater 2 fail because it interacts with a spark white it's still recovering?
    • Yes
      Does the eater 2 fail because it interacts with a domino spark like this?

      Code: Select all

      x = 10, y = 8, rule = B3/S23
      o$o3bobo$2bobob3o$9bo$3b2ob3o$4bobo$4bobo$5bo!

      • Yes.
        Try replacing the eater 2 with a BTS (bookend-table-snake) catalyst.
      • No.
        Try replacing the eater 2 with a fishhook if you haven't tried a fishhook already.
    • No.
      Does the eater 2 fail because a cell was born on the outside next to the block and one of the hats (like pictured)?

      Code: Select all

      x = 8, y = 7, rule = B3/S23
      b2obo$b2ob3o$o6bo$b2ob3o$2bobo$2bobo$3bo!

      • Yes.
        Does replacing the eater 2 with a fishhook work?
        • Yes.
          Use a fishhook.
        • No.
          Place another catalyst near the eater 2 on the side of the eater 2 where the extra cell was born.
  • An eater 3:
    Does the loaf look like this and then disappear?

    Code: Select all

    x = 5, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
    3bo$4bo$2obo$2bo!

    • Yes.
      Place another catalyst on the side of the eater 3 that gets an extra cell so that it will interact with the active object a few generations earlier. If the same problem still happens, move the catalyst so that it interacts with the active object earlier.
  • Block
    Was the line of cells on one side too long so that the block turned into a second cousin of the century, a blinker (or longer line of cells) formed then killed the block (similarly to an overweight spaceship), or the block died similarly to a phi spark?
    • Yes.
      Does the row/column just behind the leading edge of the chaos that is about to interact with the block have two cells with one directly behind the sole cell on the leading edge so that those two cells are in the same two columns/rows as the block, like pictured?

      Code: Select all

      x = 3, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
      3o$2o$o2$2o$2o!

      • Yes.
        Try moving the block by one cell, like pictured.

        Code: Select all

        x = 4, y = 6, rule = B3/S23
        b3o$b2o$bo2$2o$2o!

      • No.
        Try placing a fishhook to kill some of those cells during the block's catalysis.

EvinZL wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 2:27 pm

Fishhook
Does the fishhook become this?

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 4, rule = B3/S23
2.A$.A.A$.A$2A!

Then replace it with this:

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
.2A$.A.A$3.A$3.3A$.2A3.A$A2.4A$2A.A$3.A.2A$3.A.A$2.2A.A.A$6.2A!

Code: Select all

x = 8, y = 11, rule = LifeHistory
.2C$.C.C$3.C$3.3C$.2C3.D$C2.4C$2C.C$3.C.2C$3.C.C$2.2C.C.C$6.2C!

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 2:44 pm

Some unusual Eater 2 catalyses, if they're of any use to anyone.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
9bo$8bobo$8bobo$7b2ob3o$13bo$7b2ob3o$o6b2obo$b2o$2o2b3o$6bo$5bo!
[[ T 6 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 7 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 8 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 9 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
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[[ T 14 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
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[[ T 16 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 17 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 18 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 19 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 20 PAUSE 0.2 ]]

Code: Select all

x = 15, y = 18, rule = B3/S23
4bo$3bobo$3bobo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o$3bob2o$13bo$12bobo$11bo2bo$11bobo$11b
2o5$11b2o$11b2o!
[[ T 23 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 24 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 25 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
[[ T 26 PAUSE 0.2 ]]
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MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 4th, 2020, 10:56 pm

The eater 2 is overclocked to repeat time 4.

Code: Select all

x = 14, y = 9, rule = B3/S23
4bo$3bobo$3bobo$b3ob2o$o$b3ob2o4b2o$3bob2o3bo2bo$9bo2bo$9b3o!

Entity Valkyrie 2 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 7:54 pm

Catalysts to use where the fishhook fails:

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 8:10 pm

no one likes a new user who won't pull his/her own weight, so I didn't ask anyone

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 8:51 pm

But there's way too much stuff for one to possibly know all of it that quickly. It's fine to ask around.

Kazyan wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:00 pm

There are also some limits to the catalyst search programs. We are well past the point where CatForce can handle the load of all known catalysts, even if you remove the ones that can do one specific thing to one specific mess and will obviously never work anywhere else.

Kazyan wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:00 pm

The third one is likely not that important. Spotting those reactions in which tubs 'open' and then 'close' are more of an art than a science, currently.

x = 48, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
A.A17.A.A17.A.A2$3A17.3A17.3A$44.C$2.C19.C20.C.C$.C.C13.2C2.C.C19.C.C
$2.C13.C.C3.2C20.C$16.C28.3C$15.2C30.C!

x = 9, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
A.A2$3A$4.C$3.C.C$3.C.C$4.C.2C$5.C2.C$6.2C!

x = 4, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
.2A2$.A$A2.A$A.A$.A2$2C$2C!

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:05 pm

Do you mean that CatForce cannot store all of them or that CatForce cannot try all of them? (I assume the latter, but I want to make sure.)
If the latter, then couldn't CatForce just try the basic catalysts, look up how they fail in a dictionary, then try appropriate replacements?
The human equivalent is the reason why someone should make a troubleshooting guide.

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:31 pm

Quick question: Can't we just use a beehive-with-tail for the third one?

Code: Select all

x = 48, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
A.A17.A.A17.A.A2$3A17.3A17.3A$44.C$2.C19.C20.C.C$.C.C13.2C2.C.C19.C.C
$2.C13.C.C3.2C20.C$16.C28.3C$15.2C30.C!

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:31 pm

A plain block works for the second one.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
.2A2$.A$A2.A$A.A$.A2$2C$2C!

Kazyan wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 10:28 pm

Looking up how a placed catalyst fails, then trying a library of alternatives, is a good idea for the next evolution of catalyst search programs. It's not really within the scope of what CatForce is equipped to do, though.

The former description is more accurate. For every search, you have to list out the catalysts you want CatForce to try, as RLEs. If the list is too long, CatForce starts to ignore the 'forbidden' keyword (which is a thing you can use to tell CatForce to ignore the 11,000 boat-bit reactions whenever there's an escaping glider), and when it's a little longer than that, the program just segfaults and won't run at all.

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 10:33 pm

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 9:31 pm

A plain block works for the second one.

Code: Select all

x = 4, y = 9, rule = LifeHistory
.2A2$.A$A2.A$A.A$.A2$2C$2C!

How did Kazyan miss that?

x = 35, y = 78, rule = LifeHistory
2$6.A9.A$7.A9.A$4.A.A7.A.A$5.A9.A2$4.2C7.2C$4.2C6.C.C$12.2C2$15.2C$15.
C$16.3C$18.C7$5.3A7.3A$5.A9.A2$4.2C7.2C$4.2C6.C.C$12.2C2$15.2C$15.C$16.
3C$18.C4$7.A9.A13.A$5.2A8.2A12.2A2$4.A.A7.A.A11.A.A$5.A9.A13.A2$4.2C7.
2C12.2C$4.2C6.C.C11.C2.C.C$12.2C12.2C.C.3C$29.C4.C$15.2C6.2C4.C.3C$15.
C8.C5.2C$16.3C2.3C$18.C2.C6$2.3A7.3A11.3A$3.3A7.3A11.3A$5.A9.A13.A2$4.
2C7.2C12.2C$4.2C6.C.C11.C2.C.C$12.2C12.2C.C.3C$29.C4.C$15.2C6.2C4.C.3C
$15.C8.C5.2C$16.3C2.3C$18.C2.C8$14.C2$14.C2$14.C!

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 8:57 pm

wwei23 wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 8:51 pm

But there's way too much stuff for one to possibly know all of it that quickly. It's fine to ask around. :P

Yes, but it is hard for me to shake the emotional impact of some post by dvgrn (and I'm sure other users as well).

dvgrn wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 11:02 pm

Now, maybe sometimes I'll have some useful perspective about what has been tried and found to work and not work in the past. That's the source, for example, of my recommendation that you always start a search with a previously known and commonly used conduit. We've had to sort through an awful lot of hopeful posts over the years, that amount to "if a pi heptomino" (or whatever) "magically appears in this hopelessly inaccessible location, then here's a conduit to produce X."

x = 34, y = 56, rule = B3/S23
19bo$17b3o$16bo$16b2o2$12bo$11bo$10b2o$11bob3o$15bo$13bobo$14bo4$15bo$14bobo$14bo$14b3obo$18b2o$18bo$17bo2$12b2o$13bo$10b3o$bo8bo$2bo$3o3$12bo$12b3o$15bo$14bo$14b2o4$25b2o$25b2o8$16bo$15bobo$15b2o3$31b2o$31bobo$31bo!

x = 22, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
14bo$12b3o$11bo$11b2o3$8b2o$7bob2o$7bo4bo$8b2o4bo$9bo3bo3$6b2o4b2o3$6bo3bo$5bo4b2o$7bo4bo$9b2obo$10b2o3$7b2o$8bo$5b3o$5bo5$7bo$7b3o$10bo$9bo$9b2o4$20b2o$9bo10b2o$6bo2bo$6bobo$6b2o2$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o9bo$10bobo$10b2o!

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 11:47 pm

In my defense, I thought that connectivity with other conduits was a requirement for being added to the elementary conduit collection.

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 11:47 pm

dvgrn wrote: ↑

November 7th, 2020, 11:02 pm

Now, maybe sometimes I'll have some useful perspective about what has been tried and found to work and not work in the past. That's the source, for example, of my recommendation that you always start a search with a previously known and commonly used conduit. We've had to sort through an awful lot of hopeful posts over the years, that amount to "if a pi heptomino" (or whatever) "magically appears in this hopelessly inaccessible location, then here's a conduit to produce X."

In my defense, I thought that connectivity with other conduits was a requirement for being added to the elementary conduit collection. However, it is indeed possible to get a ∏ there using a nonmagical (as you like to describe it when submitting an instance to Catagolue) method.

Code: Select all

x = 34, y = 56, rule = B3/S23
19bo$17b3o$16bo$16b2o2$12bo$11bo$10b2o$11bob3o$15bo$13bobo$14bo4$15bo$14bobo$14bo$14b3obo$18b2o$18bo$17bo2$12b2o$13bo$10b3o$bo8bo$2bo$3o3$12bo$12b3o$15bo$14bo$14b2o4$25b2o$25b2o8$16bo$15bobo$15b2o3$31b2o$31bobo$31bo!

Also, this works (although it partially merely passes the buck).

Code: Select all

x = 22, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
14bo$12b3o$11bo$11b2o3$8b2o$7bob2o$7bo4bo$8b2o4bo$9bo3bo3$6b2o4b2o3$6bo3bo$5bo4b2o$7bo4bo$9b2obo$10b2o3$7b2o$8bo$5b3o$5bo5$7bo$7b3o$10bo$9bo$9b2o4$20b2o$9bo10b2o$6bo2bo$6bobo$6b2o2$2b2o$bobo$bo$2o9bo$10bobo$10b2o!

bubblegum wrote: ↑

November 8th, 2020, 2:08 am

I think it may be possible by tampering with an XWSS.

MathAndCode wrote: ↑

November 8th, 2020, 2:06 pm

bubblegum wrote: ↑

November 8th, 2020, 2:08 am

I think it may be possible by tampering with an XWSS.

That's a good idea, but it would probably have to be a LWSS, as even a MWSS's sparks with interact with the hook with tail.

bubblegum wrote: ↑

November 8th, 2020, 2:48 pm

I was thinking some mutated XWSS which would enter from the left and have its head separate and evolve into a pi while the back fades away.

x = 36, y = 20, rule = B3/S23
21bo$21b3o$24bo$12b2o9bo$12b2o9b2o2$2bo$o3bo$5bo28b2o$o4bo28b2o$b5o7$25bo$24bobo$24b2o!