ConwayLife.com

Posted: **February 23rd, 2021, 5:55 am**

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Yayayayayay

Posted: **February 24th, 2021, 8:58 am**

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Posted: **February 24th, 2021, 10:30 am**

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Posted: **February 25th, 2021, 7:31 am**

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Posted: **February 26th, 2021, 8:36 am**

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Posted: **March 2nd, 2021, 8:45 pm**

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@wwei47 - do you realize that voting this way is the same as not voting at all? The voting is done to estimate subjective preferences of cgol community, giving same vote to everyone express zero preference.

Posted: **March 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm**

wwei47 wrote: ↑
February 22nd, 2021, 7:53 pm

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
February 22nd, 2021, 7:34 pm

wwei47 wrote: ↑
February 22nd, 2021, 5:33 pm
I'll give each pattern three stars.
Doesn't that remove the point of voting?
I guess so, but it takes a lot of effort to produce those patterns, and for that, I give them 3 stars.

Different patterns take different amount of effort and have different amount of subjective impact on the importance you give them in the research of the field. Even if effort is involved there are projects that took days, weeks, months some took years maybe, they still deserve different vote.

EDIT To explain what I mean, here is pattern of mine, I call it #40, how much stars does it deserves?

Code: Select all

x = 88, y = 51, rule = B3/S23
59b25o$51b8o25bo$46b5o34bo$42b4o40bo$38b4o45bo$35b3o49bo$32b3o52bo$30b
2o55bo$28b2o57bo$26b2o59bo$24b2o61bo$21b3o63bo$19b2o66bo$17b2o68bo$15b
2o69bo$14bo70bo$12b2o17b4o50bo$10b2o16b3o4b3o46bo$8b2o16b2o10b3o42bo$
7bo17bo15b3o38bo$6bo37b2o35bo$4b2o40b2o32bo$3bo44b2o29bo$2bo47b2o26bo$
bo50b2o23bo$bo52b2o20bo$o55b2o16b2o$58bo11b4o$59bo6b4o$60bo2b3o$60b3o$
57b3o2bo$54b3o5bo$51b3o9bo$48b3o12bo$45b3o16bo$42b3o19bo$39b3o22bo$34b
5o26bo$28b6o31bo$20b8o37bo$12b8o44bo$5b7o52bo$4bo58bo$4bo56b2o$5b2o52b
2o$7bo49b2o$8b2o45b2o$10b5o36b4o$15b17o15b4o$32b15o!

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 11:30 am**

simsim314 wrote: ↑
March 2nd, 2021, 8:48 pm
Different patterns take different amount of effort and have different amount of subjective impact on the importance you give them in the research of the field. Even if effort is involved there are projects that took days, weeks, months some took years maybe, they still deserve different vote.

Your points are valid, but if wwei47 genuinely sees no difference between slightly helpful and very helpful or requiring a little effort and requiring a lot of effort, then it might be best to let the issue be. The idea of the voting thread is to decide what the community as a whole judges as the best pattern, so large differences in opinion should be represented more than slight differences in opinion. If wwei47 sees no significant difference between each pattern, giving each pattern three stars is better than attempting to expand the infinitesimal range of opinions to a scale from zero to three. (Of course, by this argument, not voting at all would be just as viable as an option.) Also, welcome back.
By the way, since you seem to be the expert on making switch engines efficiently, I'm wondering whether you know of any ways to create a pair of two parallel glider-producing switch engines with seven or fewer gliders.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 12:07 pm**

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 11:30 am
Your points are valid, but if wwei47 genuinely sees no difference between slightly helpful and very helpful or requiring a little effort and requiring a lot of effort, then it might be best to let the issue be. The idea of the voting thread is to decide what the community as a whole judges as the best pattern, so large differences in opinion should be represented more than slight differences in opinion. If wwei47 sees no significant difference between each pattern, giving each pattern three stars is better than attempting to expand the infinitesimal range of opinions to a scale from zero to three. (Of course, by this argument, not voting at all would be just as viable as an option.) Also, welcome back.
By the way, since you seem to be the expert on making switch engines efficiently, I'm wondering whether you know of any ways to create a pair of two parallel glider-producing switch engines with seven or fewer gliders.

1. It's not easy to judge how much effort was put into a pattern.
2. Try using the infinite growth 3G twice. EDIT by dvgrn: link to infinite growth 3G GPSE.
Edit 2:
3. I think this is my first post to be edited by a moderator!

Edit 3:
4. Hi dvgrn!

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 12:33 pm**

wwei47 wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 12:07 pm
2. Try using the infinite growth 3G twice. EDIT by dvgrn: link to infinite growth 3G GPSE.

It can't have escaping gliders.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 1:45 pm**

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 12:33 pm
It can't have escaping gliders.

Aha. Any other requirements that didn't make it into the original request? How far apart or close together do these parallel glider streams have to be, to be useful?

It's easy-ish to write a search script to look for 7G no-extraneous-gliders double GPSE syntheses, but it might as well be written to look for the most useful solution first. My idea would be to set up 3G switch engine syntheses in pairs at different distances and time offsets, and then see if there's a single glider impact in the debris that can convert both switch engines to GPSEs before the natural gliders start escaping.

Luckily the first extraneous escaping glider only appears at T=583. It's a huge search space. ... Which should probably be discussed further in its own thread instead of here.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 1:59 pm**

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 11:30 am
large differences in opinion should be represented more than slight differences in opinion.

As far as I understand the voting results is just sorted eventually.

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 11:30 am
If wwei47 sees no significant difference between each pattern, giving each pattern three stars is better than attempting to expand the infinitesimal range of opinions to a scale from zero to three.

If you agree that pattern #40 doesn't deserve 3 stars, then you still have some scoring function of how good some pattern is. Even this year people discovered more patterns than those 39, it's just those are of some significance chosen by the one who opened the post. Saying they all worth the same is basically the same as saying non of them worth anything. This year it's hard to find the knockout blow, pattern which way ahead of anything else done ever (like syringe or quadratic growth), but you can still find some patterns which shines more than others. I really don't want to express my subjective judgement here, but even one pattern that gets something else than 3 stars would be an input of significance.

wwei47 wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 12:07 pm
1. It's not easy to judge how much effort was put into a pattern.

I agree but some are clearly were done with much more effort than others. Even rough estimation of the effort or slight correlation with effort by how much effort you believe was put into them, is still a meaningful input. Not being able to exactly estimate the effort doesn't mean they all the same. Giving three stars to them all doesn't influence the end result in any way, if you want people to invest more effort, then having them sorted out by estimated effort put into them - would be a meaningful voting even if not completely accurate.

You can also consult an expert like dvgrn to estimate the effort.

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 11:30 am
I'm wondering whether you know of any ways to create a pair of two parallel glider-producing switch engines with seven or fewer gliders.

There is a difference if you want them clean or messy. For messy and 4 gliders there is R+glider that produces glider producing SE, as of 7 gliders I would take one escaping glider for the second one. This will limit the output positions of course.

Posted: **March 3rd, 2021, 2:19 pm**

dvgrn wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 1:45 pm

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 3rd, 2021, 12:33 pm
It can't have escaping gliders.
Aha. Any other requirements that didn't make it into the original request? How far apart or close together do these parallel glider streams have to be, to be useful?

Here's the GPSE pair that the seventeen-glider RCT-based universal constructor uses:

Code: Select all

x = 568, y = 591, rule = B3/S23
566bo$566b2o$565bobo21$549b2o$550b2o$549bo39$502bo$502b2o$501bobo21$485b
2o$486b2o$485bo39$438bo$438b2o$437bobo21$421b2o$422b2o$421bo39$374bo$
374b2o$373bobo21$357b2o$358b2o$357bo39$310bo$310b2o$309bobo21$293b2o$
294b2o$293bo38$169bo$162bo5bobo75bo$160b2ob2o81b2o$160b2o3bo2b3o74bob
o$160b2ob2o$161b4o$149b2o$149b2o7$141b2o$141b2o$155b3o$153b2ob4o4b4o$
153bo2b2o4b2obobo$145b2o6b3o9b2o$144bo2bo10bobo3bo$144bo2bo$145bobo$147b
4o$146b2o2bo78b2o$134b2o11b3o80b2o$133bobo12bo12b2o66bo$134bo26b2o$142b
2o5bobo$142b2o5bo$152bo$147bo4b2o$146bo6bo$146bo2b4o5$117b2o$100b2o3b
o11b2o$101bo4bo$105bo$102bobo24bo$103bo24bobo$107bo21b2o12bo$91b2o11b
3obo33bobo$91b2o10b3o2bo34b2o$102b2o2bo$103b2o$104bo$134bo$91b3o39bob
o$90b2ob3o38b2o$86bo$86bo3bo$86bo7b2o$91b2obo$93b2o$94bo6b2o$101b2o$98b
2ob2o$99b2o$93b2o9bo$92bo2bo7b3o27b2o$93b2o8b2obo25bo2bo$105b2o26b2o47b
o$182b2o$136b3o42bobo2$92b2o40bo$94bo39bo$89bo4b2o38bo$88bo3bo5bo$89b
2o7b2o31b2o$98b2o31b2o2$65b2o44bo$64bo2bo42bobo$65b2o44b2o$93b3o$91b2o
b2o$91b2ob2o$91b2o9bo$101bobo$102b2o2$139b2o$72bo66b2o$71bobo91b2o$70b
o2bo92b2o$71b2o92bo4$143b2o$101b2o40b2o$100bo2bo$101b2o2$104b3o2$102b
o126bobo$102bo126bo2bo$102bo126bobo$133b2o79b2o$99b2o32bobo77bobo$99b
2o33b2o77b3o13bo$88b3o121bo2bo11b2obo$33b2o179bo12b2obo$32bo2bo169b2o
7bo12bo3bo$33b2o170b2o20b4o$81bo130bo15b3o$81bo133bo$81bo130bo2bo$70b
o143b3o$69bobo142b3o$70b2o141bo2bo$213bobo$107b2o91b2o11b3o$40bo66b2o
90bob2o$39bobo157bo4bo$38bo2bo157bo8b2o15b2o$39b2o158bo3b2o2bobo15b2o
$206b2obo$201bo5b6o$199b2o7bo4bo$111b2o97bo2bo$69b2o40b2o24b2o47b2o23b
2o$68bo2bo65b2o47bobo14b2o$69b2o116bo15b2o12b2o$217b2o$72b3o70b2o$145b
2o$70bo94bo$70bo94bo$70bo94bo$101b2o23b2o40bo11b2o24b2o$67b2o32bobo22b
obo32b3o3bobo10bobo22bobo$67b2o33b2o23b2o38bobo11bo24bo$56b3o99b2o8bo
$b2o155b2o$o2bo184b2o$b2o185bobo$49bo139bo$49bo$49bo$38bo$37bobo$38b2o
2$75b2o$8bo66b2o$7bobo$6bo2bo183b2o$7b2o184b2o4$79b2o$37b2o40b2o24b2o
47b2o$36bo2bo65b2o47bobo$37b2o116bo2$40b3o70b2o71b2o$113b2o73bo$38bo94b
o33b2o16bobo4bo$38bo94bo33bobo16b2o3bobo$38bo94bo34b3o12b2ob2o2bo$69b
2o23b2o40bo11b2o18b2o14b3o2bo$35b2o32bobo22bobo32b3o3bobo10bobo21b3o10b
o4bo$35b2o33b2o23b2o38bobo11bo22b3o17b2o$24b3o99b2o8bo34bo21bo$126b2o
30b2o11b2o$158b3o11bo2$17bo$17bo133b3o7bo7bo7bo2bo$17bo133b3o7b2o5bob
o3b4o2bo$6bo146bo9bo4bobo4bo4b2o$5bobo142b3o7bo2bo5bo6bo4bo4b2o$6b2o142b
3o23bo3b2o4b2o$125bo33bo18bobo$43b2o80bo33bobo$43b2o80bo34bo2$177b3o5$
47b2o70b3o$5b2o40b2o24b2o$4bo2bo65b2o$5b2o2$8b3o70b2o$81b2o$6bo94bo$6b
o94bo41b2o$6bo94bo40bo2bo$37b2o23b2o40bo11b2o24bobo$3b2o32bobo22bobo32b
3o3bobo10bobo24bo$3b2o33b2o23b2o38bobo11bo$94b2o8bo$94b2o59bo$154bobo
$154bobo$155bo6$93bo$93bo$93bo7$87b3o$41b2o$41b2o3$49b2o$49b2o$69bo$69b
o41b2o$69bo40bo2bo$30b2o40bo11b2o24bobo$30bobo32b3o3bobo10bobo24bo$31b
2o38bobo11bo$62b2o8bo$62b2o59bo$122bobo$122bobo$123bo6$61bo$61bo$61bo
7$55b3o7$37bo$37bo41b2o$37bo40bo2bo$40bo11b2o24bobo$33b3o3bobo10bobo24b
o$39bobo11bo$30b2o8bo$30b2o59bo$90bobo$90bobo$91bo!

What matters is the glider stream. Changes that don't affect the glider stream, such as having one GPSE create each glider one full diagonal farther back but four generations sooner, will not cause problems. Also, some changes to the glider stream will be allowed. In order to keep using the same model, the lane difference must be kept the same, the relative timings of the two gliders modulo eight must be kept the same, and gliders from the two parallel GPSEs can't come too close together to each other, but changes that don't violate any of those should be fine. Also, if the lane separation and or modular relative timing are changed, then the current model won't work, but it will probably be possible to create a new model as long as the lane separation and relative parity are universal (which I would expect imposes a maximum lane separation) and the gliders aren't too close together timewise, so the only stringent conditions are no escaping gliders, universality, and sufficient temporal separation between when gliders from the two parallel GPSEs arrive.

Edit: Actually, if the first glider from the GPSE on the southeast arrives before the the first glider from the GPSE on the northwest or after the second glider from the GPSE on the northwest, that might cause a minor hassle, but I'm sure that there would be a way to make it work without having to overhaul the design find an entirely new set of universal operations, so we needn't worry about it.

Posted: **March 6th, 2021, 9:05 pm**

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We still need to decide on an end date for the voting period. Last year the voting period lasted a little over 3 weeks. To have a similar voting period this year, we would end on March 17, a Wednesday. Is there a preferred day of the week to end on? Last year we ended on a Sunday.

Posted: **March 6th, 2021, 9:13 pm**

Sokwe wrote: ↑
March 6th, 2021, 9:05 pm
Is there a preferred day of the week to end on? Last year we ended on a Sunday.

I was planning to end the voting now but then saw that you voted. Shall the voting end anyway?

Posted: **March 6th, 2021, 10:11 pm**

MathAndCode wrote: ↑
March 6th, 2021, 9:13 pm
I was planning to end the voting now but then saw that you voted. Shall the voting end anyway?

I think it's a bad idea to end voting without announcing when voting will end well in advance. My suggestion would be one of three options:

End voting a week from today,
End voting on Pi Day (the 14th),
Or my personal favorite:
End voting on CGoL Day (the 23rd).

Posted: **March 6th, 2021, 10:14 pm**

A for awesome wrote: ↑
March 6th, 2021, 10:11 pm
I think it's a bad idea to end voting without announcing when voting will end well in advance.

I'm going with Sokwe's suggestion of ending on March 17th.

Posted: **March 7th, 2021, 10:17 pm**

only 25 people voted - pitiful turnout...

Posted: **March 8th, 2021, 1:43 am**

otismo wrote: ↑
March 7th, 2021, 10:17 pm
only 25 people voted - pitiful turnout...

About 25 people votes last year as well.

Posted: **March 8th, 2021, 4:27 am**

PC101 wrote: ↑
March 8th, 2021, 1:43 am

otismo wrote: ↑
March 7th, 2021, 10:17 pm
only 25 people voted - pitiful turnout...
About 25 people votes last year as well.

I did some quick counts:

Code: Select all

So more than 25 people this year would actually be quite good, except in comparison to 2018 which was a bumper year (likely because Sir Robin attracted lots of people).

Posted: **March 8th, 2021, 11:57 am**

hmmm...more candidates than voters - do not know what to make of it...

Posted: **March 9th, 2021, 12:25 pm**

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Posted: **March 10th, 2021, 4:01 pm**

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Posted: **March 14th, 2021, 10:02 am**

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Posted: **March 15th, 2021, 10:06 pm**

This is just a reminder that the voting ends in two days (plus or minus a few hours).

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