Pattern viewer for forum threads

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muzik
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 7th, 2024, 11:52 pm

Very minor request, would it be possible to skip the message displayed after period detection for objects with a sufficiently low period or low identification time and instead immediately start calculating results as was done previously?

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 2, rule = B2e/S
bo$o!

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 8th, 2024, 12:27 am

Not sure as to how this can be fixed if at all, but I'm noticing that hexagonal patterns tend to look less symmetric when zoomed out, causing parallelogram-like figures to manifest.

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B/SH
4o$5o$6o$7o$b6o$2b5o$3b4o!
[[ ZOOM -1.01 ]]

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 7, rule = B/SH
4o$5o$6o$7o$b6o$2b5o$3b4o!
[[ ZOOM -4.01 ]]
The edges of this, for example, aren't nearly as smooth as expected, looking far more serrated from a distance than when zoomed in:

Code: Select all

x = 144, y = 144, rule = B/SH
4o$5o$6o$7o$b7o$2b7o$3b7o$4b7o$5b7o$6b7o$7b7o$8b7o$9b7o$10b7o$11b7o$12b
7o$13b7o$14b7o$15b7o$16b7o$17b7o$18b7o$19b7o$20b7o$21b7o$22b7o$23b7o$
24b7o$25b7o$26b7o$27b7o$28b7o$29b7o$30b7o$31b7o$32b7o$33b7o$34b7o$35b
7o$36b7o$37b7o$38b7o$39b7o$40b7o$41b7o$42b7o$43b7o$44b7o$45b7o$46b7o$
47b7o$48b7o$49b7o$50b7o$51b7o$52b7o$53b7o$54b7o$55b7o$56b7o$57b7o$58b
7o$59b7o$60b7o$61b7o$62b7o$63b7o$64b7o$65b7o$66b7o$67b7o$68b7o$69b7o$
70b7o$71b7o$72b7o$73b7o$74b7o$75b7o$76b7o$77b7o$78b7o$79b7o$80b7o$81b
7o$82b7o$83b7o$84b7o$85b7o$86b7o$87b7o$88b7o$89b7o$90b7o$91b7o$92b7o$
93b7o$94b7o$95b7o$96b7o$97b7o$98b7o$99b7o$100b7o$101b7o$102b7o$103b7o
$104b7o$105b7o$106b7o$107b7o$108b7o$109b7o$110b7o$111b7o$112b7o$113b7o
$114b7o$115b7o$116b7o$117b7o$118b7o$119b7o$120b7o$121b7o$122b7o$123b7o
$124b7o$125b7o$126b7o$127b7o$128b7o$129b7o$130b7o$131b7o$132b7o$133b7o
$134b7o$135b7o$136b7o$137b7o$138b6o$139b5o$140b4o!
[[ ZOOM -2.4 ]]
Is it at all possible to improve zoomed-out hexagonal rule rendering as to better preserve perceived symmetry?

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muzik
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 13th, 2024, 1:55 pm

On Catagolue synthesis pages, using Save Pattern puts a bunch of stuff near the top on the same line, where it previously was on different lines. This includes the size and rule parameters of the RLE. Is this intended? https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xq3 ... 8111/b3s23

I've also noticed that, with this specific viewer embed size, menus such as the Pattern menu have the buttons intersecting the title.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » March 14th, 2024, 11:46 am

muzik wrote:
March 8th, 2024, 12:27 am
Is it at all possible to improve zoomed-out hexagonal rule rendering as to better preserve perceived symmetry?
No.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » March 14th, 2024, 12:31 pm

muzik wrote:
March 13th, 2024, 1:55 pm
On Catagolue synthesis pages, using Save Pattern puts a bunch of stuff near the top on the same line, where it previously was on different lines. This includes the size and rule parameters of the RLE. Is this intended?
It's not a LifeViewer issue.

The HTML element that is being used to show the RLE has a CSS style of "white-space: normal;". This tells it to collapse spaces into a single space and replace newlines with spaces. See here for more details.
The fix would be to change the style to "white-space: pre-line;" on the web page.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » March 14th, 2024, 6:00 pm

muzik wrote:
March 13th, 2024, 1:55 pm
I've also noticed that, with this specific viewer embed size, menus such as the Pattern menu have the buttons intersecting the title.
Fixed, thanks!

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by confocaloid » March 21st, 2024, 10:03 am

After identifying a pattern that (is or evolves into) an oscillator or a spaceship, would it be possible to add buttons or links into the UI, to make it possible to quickly jump to a minimum population phase / a maximum population phase? Currently there is a multistep way to extract that information, but no easy way to jump directly to a corresponding phase as far as I know. As a possibility/idea, add a pair of buttons to iterate through all "peak" phases (phases that are either minpop or maxpop), since there can be more than one minpop phase / more than one maxpop phase. (Might be as simple as two buttons "go to next minpop phase" and "go to next maxpop phase", enabled after doing Identify.) This feels like a missing feature.
Last edited by confocaloid on March 27th, 2024, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 26th, 2024, 7:06 am

I've noticed recently that when pressing the Graph button, there's a good chance the graph won't show up. Going back into the settings menu highlights the graph button as though it were indeed present, and you need to click it and go back into settings a third time and click Graph yet once more to get the graph to actually appear.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » March 27th, 2024, 4:35 am

muzik wrote:
March 26th, 2024, 7:06 am
I've noticed recently that when pressing the Graph button, there's a good chance the graph won't show up. Going back into the settings menu highlights the graph button as though it were indeed present, and you need to click it and go back into settings a third time and click Graph yet once more to get the graph to actually appear.
I don't see this. I'll need a repeatable set of steps (and device info) please.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 28th, 2024, 5:49 pm

rowett wrote:
March 27th, 2024, 4:35 am
muzik wrote:
March 26th, 2024, 7:06 am
I've noticed recently that when pressing the Graph button, there's a good chance the graph won't show up. Going back into the settings menu highlights the graph button as though it were indeed present, and you need to click it and go back into settings a third time and click Graph yet once more to get the graph to actually appear.
I don't see this. I'll need a repeatable set of steps (and device info) please.
This is one of those kinds of bugs that doesn't want to show itself when I want it to, however I can confirm that when it does, it happens on multiple different browsers and devices.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » March 29th, 2024, 3:20 pm

muzik wrote:
March 28th, 2024, 5:49 pm
This is one of those kinds of bugs that doesn't want to show itself when I want it to, however I can confirm that when it does, it happens on multiple different browsers and devices.
When it happens and you try it on different devices and browsers is it failing on the same pattern?

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 30th, 2024, 7:24 am

rowett wrote:
March 29th, 2024, 3:20 pm
muzik wrote:
March 28th, 2024, 5:49 pm
This is one of those kinds of bugs that doesn't want to show itself when I want it to, however I can confirm that when it does, it happens on multiple different browsers and devices.
When it happens and you try it on different devices and browsers is it failing on the same pattern?
I believe in many cases it was this thread but don't remember the exact pattern, so this is something I'll have to note.

Anyway, since the Golly theme now accounts for higher-range rules versus range-1, should the same be done for Caterer since it also gives higher-range rules a different colour scheme?

Another thing I want to point out is that when zooming out far enough, bounded grid cells can obscure everything alive if thin enough. Would it be possible to have living cells render on top of bounded cells, such that in cases like these, they aren't hidden when you zoom out beyond 1.0?

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 2, rule = ModuloThreeTripleReplicator1D:T0,2
o$o!
While testing that I've noticed several strange things. Here's one of them: once this stops, zoom out until you're just slightly further out than -1.0, and the layers will imply you're on a different generation than you actually are (seems to be generation 26, even though the pattern is at generation 27).

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 2, rule = ModuloThreeTripleReplicator1D:T0,2
o$o!
[[ AUTOSTART STOP 27 LAYERS 10 COLOR BOUNDED 0 0 0 ]]
A second weird thing (although this doesn't always happen): if, after the above pattern stops, you zoom out a lot (around -10x), then play the batten to around a hundred generations, then pause it and zoom back in, things look wrong, and the pattern no longer visually evolves if you play again even though it should.

If we Select All on this and then flip vertically, we get weird results - only half of the pattern is flipped, resulting in a different pattern with higher symmetry than what we started with.

Code: Select all

x = 1495, y = 1992, rule = R498,C3,M1,S8649..8649,B499..499,NM
498.499A498$498.499B$A497.499B497.A$498.499B$498.499B$498.499B$498.
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B.497B.B$A496.B.497B.B496.A$497.B499.B249$.A1491.A83$2.A1489.A83$5.A
1483.A77$82.A1329.A3$165.A1163.A$248.A997.A$497.2A497.2A!
[[ THEME Red STARTFROM 6 ZOOM -16 ]]

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muzik
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Location: Scotland

Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 30th, 2024, 9:07 am

rowett wrote:
March 29th, 2024, 3:20 pm
muzik wrote:
March 28th, 2024, 5:49 pm
This is one of those kinds of bugs that doesn't want to show itself when I want it to, however I can confirm that when it does, it happens on multiple different browsers and devices.
When it happens and you try it on different devices and browsers is it failing on the same pattern?
At this point I think I have it figured out: this only happens when opening the graph when the draw tool is active. Since the draw tool hides the graph, pressing the graph button in settings won't bring it up, even though the viewer thinks it should be present. Going back into settings and pressing it again turns it off, but also switches to the hand mode, so that going into settings a third time does make the graph show up as expected.

This behaviour seems weird to me - perhaps clicking the graph button should switch draw mode to hand mode the first time round?

----

Discord appears to have killed the ability to embed things uploaded there externally, so here's some previous examples along with the intended images, included as attachments:

- AUTOFIT not being entirely smooth (weird jump around T=50-60 and instantaneous zoom out at T=80):

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
3bo$bo3bo$o$o4bo$5o!
[[ AUTOFIT HISTORYFIT AUTOSTART STOP 80 ]]
joltyautofit.gif
joltyautofit.gif (590.08 KiB) Viewed 328 times
- Invalid state handling not revealing internal state colours anymore like it used to:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23History
.ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO$PQRSTUVWXpApBpCpDpEpFpG$pHpIpJpKpLpMpNpOpPpQpRpSpTpU
pVpW$pXqAqBqCqDqEqFqGqHqIqJqKqLqMqNqO$qPqQqRqSqTqUqVqWqXrArBrCrDrErFrG
$rHrIrJrKrLrMrNrOrPrQrRrSrTrUrVrW$rXsAsBsCsDsEsFsGsHsIsJsKsLsMsNsO$sP
sQsRsSsTsUsVsWsXtAtBtCtDtEtFtG$tHtItJtKtLtMtNtOtPtQtRtStTtUtVtW$tXuAuB
uCuDuEuFuGuHuIuJuKuLuMuNuO$uPuQuRuSuTuUuVuWuXvAvBvCvDvEvFvG$vHvIvJvKvL
vMvNvOvPvQvRvSvTvUvVvW$vXwAwBwCwDwEwFwGwHwIwJwKwLwMwNwO$wPwQwRwSwTwUwV
wWwXxAxBxCxDxExFxG$xHxIxJxKxLxMxNxOxPxQxRxSxTxUxVxW$xXyAyByCyDyEyFyGyH
yIyJyKyLyMyNyO!
image.png
image.png (31.95 KiB) Viewed 328 times
- Selection rectangle being visually offset horizontally by one pixel:

Code: Select all

x = 16, y = 16, rule = //256
.ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO$PQRSTUVWXpApBpCpDpEpFpG$pHpIpJpKpLpMpNpOpPpQpRpSpTpU
pVpW$pXqAqBqCqDqEqFqGqHqIqJqKqLqMqNqO$qPqQqRqSqTqUqVqWqXrArBrCrDrErFrG
$rHrIrJrKrLrMrNrOrPrQrRrSrTrUrVrW$rXsAsBsCsDsEsFsGsHsIsJsKsLsMsNsO$sP
sQsRsSsTsUsVsWsXtAtBtCtDtEtFtG$tHtItJtKtLtMtNtOtPtQtRtStTtUtVtW$tXuAuB
uCuDuEuFuGuHuIuJuKuLuMuNuO$uPuQuRuSuTuUuVuWuXvAvBvCvDvEvFvG$vHvIvJvKvL
vMvNvOvPvQvRvSvTvUvVvW$vXwAwBwCwDwEwFwGwHwIwJwKwLwMwNwO$wPwQwRwSwTwUwV
wWwXxAxBxCxDxExFxG$xHxIxJxKxLxMxNxOxPxQxRxSxTxUxVxW$xXyAyByCyDyEyFyGyH
yIyJyKyLyMyNyO!
image.png
image.png (47.32 KiB) Viewed 328 times

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muzik
Posts: 5646
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Location: Scotland

Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » March 30th, 2024, 6:36 pm

There seems to be a disparity with autofit here:

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = B3/S23
o!
[[ ZOOM 4 MAXGRIDSIZE 9 AUTOFIT
PASTEDELTA 2 0 PASTET EVERY 2 PASTE o! 0 0
PASTEDELTA 2 0 PASTET EVERY 2 1 PASTE o! 1 1 ]]

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = R1,C2,S2-3,B3
o!
[[ ZOOM 4 MAXGRIDSIZE 9 AUTOFIT
PASTEDELTA 2 0 PASTET EVERY 2 PASTE o! 0 0
PASTEDELTA 2 0 PASTET EVERY 2 1 PASTE o! 1 1 ]]
Compare:

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 4, rule = B2/S
o$bo$bo$o!
[[ AUTOFIT MAXGRIDSIZE 9 ]]

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 4, rule = R1,C2,S,B2
o$bo$bo$o!
[[ AUTOFIT MAXGRIDSIZE 9 ]]
After the pattern above dies, stepping back one generation and forward one generation seems to zoom out for the general-range case but not the range-1 case.

Also, it's possible for a spaceship's speed to be calculated by Identify but it to die via the boundary before it can compute further statistics. Could a table still be produced with limited info in such a case?

Code: Select all

x = 2, y = 4, rule = R1,C2,S,B2
o$bo$bo$o!
[[ MAXGRIDSIZE 9 STARTFROM 250 X 256 ]]
Speaking of Identify: it'd be useful if when Identify doesn't detect periodicity, or the pattern dies out, if the elapsed time could still be displayed in Help > Info > Identify for benchmarking purposes.

It still seems to be the case that the population displayed in the graph will be off by one if the pattern is modified via drawing.

Code: Select all

x = 10, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
9o$o7b2o$ob5o2bo$obo3b2obo$obobo2bobo$obo2bobobo$ob2o3bobo$o2b5obo$2o
7bo$b9o!
[[ SHOWGENSTATS ]]
Can there be some way to scroll through the key for the period map? It ends up not being very useful when there's enough periods present for it to go off the screen.

Code: Select all

x = 154, y = 142, rule = B3/S23
84b2o9b2o48b2o$83bo2bo9bo48bo$84b3o9bobo44bobo$83bo3bo9b2o9b2o22b3o8b
2o$82bob4o18b2o2bo19bo3b2o$69b2o11bobob2o18bo2b3o2b2o10b2o2bobo2b2o$70b
o12bobobobo16bo4bo2b2o10b2obo5bo$70bobo12b2obobo16b5o18b5o$71b2o3bo8b
4obo$77b2o6bo3bo17b5o18b5o$77b2o7b3o17bo4bo2b2o10b2obo5bo$66b2o5bo3bo
3bo4bo2bo16bo2b3o2b2o10b2o2bobo2b2o$71bobo3bo3b3o3b2o17b2o2bo19bo3b2o
$65bo3bo6b2o3b3o13b2o9b2o22b3o8b2o$64bo4bo6b2o4b3o11bobo44bobo$63bobo
bo5b3o4b2o14bo48bo$62bobobo7b3o3b2o13b2o48b2o$56b2o2bo4bo8b3o3bo3bobo
$56b2o2bo3bo11bo3bo3bo$70bo2bo5b2o36b2o6b2o$52bo9b2o6bo8b2o35bo2bo4bo
2bo$51bobo15bo4bo6bo3b2o29bo2bo4bo2bo$52bo15bobo2b2o10bobo28bo2bo4bo2b
o$56b3obo5b2obo17bo29b2o6b2o$55bob2ob2o25b3o7b2o$55bo5b2o27bo6bo$55b2o
5bo3bo2bo19b2o4bobo15b2o16b2o$56b2ob2obo5b2o25b2o17bo16bo$57bob3o29b3o
12b2o6bob2o10b2obo$65bo25b3o11bo2bo6bo3bo6bo3bo$64bobo38bobobo10bo4bo
$65bo3bo18b2o16bo2bo6bo3bo4bo3bo$68bobo16bobo4b2o14bo9bo4bo$60b2o6bob
o16bo6bo12bobo5bo3bo6bo3bo$60b2o4b3o2b2o13b2o7b3o16bob2o10b2obo$65b2o
2bobo8bo16bo16bo16bo$64bobob2o2bo6bobo15bob2o10b2obo16b2o$62b3obo3b2o
3bo13b2o7bo3bo6bo3bo38b2o$54b2o5bo4bob2o5bo2bo2bo4b2o2bo12bo4bo26bobo
2b2o6b3o2bo$54bobo4b2o3b2obo4bob2o7b2ob2o9bo3bo4bo3bo21bo2bo2bobo8b2o
$56bo2b2o17b2o5b2o16bo4bo9b2o15b2obo3bo4bo$47b2o6b2obobo14b2o2bo5b2o11b
o3bo6bo3bo4b2o19b2ob2o3bo$47b2o9bo16b2o3b2o3b2ob2o7bob2o10b2obo24b2o2b
o7b2o$54b5o2bo15bo8b2o2bo6bo16bo10b5o5b3o3b3o4b3o2bo$55bo3b3o17b3o7b2o
5b2o16b2o9bo9bo2b2o12b2o$54b2ob2o67bo2bo5b2ob2o$53bo5bo67b2o7bo3bob2o
$53b6o47b2o16b2o10bobo2bo2bo$98bo6bobo3b2o10bo2bo10b2o2bobo$55b2o22b3o
16b2o4bo2bo3b2o14bo$55b2o12bo12bo4b3o12bo3bo16b5o$69b2o7bo3bo3bo3bo11b
obo$47b3o27bobo2bo2bo5bo41b2o$46bo3bo14bobo2b3o2bo2bobo21bobo28b2o$45b
o5bo13b4obo4bo3bo4bo7bo9bo3bo$46bo3bo14b2o8bo8bo7bo5b2o4bo2bo3b2o$36b
3o8b3o26b3o19bo6bobo3b2o$18b2o5b2o9b3o8b3o35bo5bo14b2o$18b2o5b2o9b3o47b
o3bo29b2o15b2o$18b2o5b2o6b3o51b3o30b2o15b2o$18bo7bo6b3o39b2o$16b2ob2o
3b2ob2o4b3o11b2o25bo2bo$16b2ob2o3b2ob2o18b2o25bobobo$16b2o2bo3bo2b2o46b
ob3o53b2o$7b2o8b2obo3bob2o49b3o15bo2b2o4b2o2bo24bobo$7bo2b3o5b2o5b2o67b
o3b3o2b3o3bo18b3o$8b2o9bo5bo9b2o58bo2b2o4b2o2bo18bo3bo$13bo20b4o36b2o
50b2o3b2o$13bo19bo2bobo33bo4bo49bo$8b2o22bobo2b2o32bo6bo22b2o25b5o$7b
o2b3o5b2o5b2o4bobo36bo8bo3b3o43bo$7b2o9b2o5b2o3b2o38bo8bo5bo17bo5bo$18b
2o5b2o3b3o37bo8bo4bo18bo5bo3bo$18bo7bo4bobo37bo6bo22b4o3b4o17bo$16b2o
b2o3b2ob2o3b2o38bo4bo22b2o9b2o13b5o$16b2ob2o3b2ob2o45b2o23b3o2b2ob2o2b
3o17bo$5bobo8b2o2bo3bo2b2o70b2o3b2ob2o3b2o12b2o3b2o$4bo2bo9b2obo3bob2o
42bo2bo26b3obo3bob3o14bo3bo$4b2o2b2o8b2o5b2o47bo26b2o7b2o16b3o$4bo4bo
9bo5bo7b2o34bo5bo26b3o3b3o12bobo$b3o5bo22bo2bo33b2o4bo28b2ob2o15b2o$o
bo5bo22bobobo38bo28bobobobo$7bo23bo2bo38bo21b2o7bo3bo$2o4bobo9b2o5b2o
3bo41b4obo17b2o$2bo2bobobo2b2o4b2o5b2o4bobo38bo3bo43b2o15b2o$2b3o3bo3b
2o56bo3bo21bo23b2o15b2o$34b2o33bob4o20bobo$32bo4bo35bo16b2o2bo2bo4b3o
3b3o$8b2o21bo6bo33bo17b2obo8b2obobob2o$8b2o20bo8bo3b3o25bo4b2o16b2o9b
obo$30bo8bo5bo25bo5bo$30bo8bo4bo27bo31b2ob2o$31bo6bo34bo2bo6bo4bo$32b
o4bo43b3o3bob2o$34b2o44bo6bobo5b2o$80b2o6bobo3bobo$93b3o$74bob2o15b2o
$73bo2bob2o14bobo$73bo2bo3bo14bobo2b2o$73b3o20bo2bobo$68bo11bo16b4o$67b
o11bo18b2o$72b3o$67bo3bo2bo$68b2obo2bo$70b2obo$49bo$49b3o14b2o$52bo14b
o$51b2o11b3o$64bo$62bobo$62b2o7$58bobo$57bo2bo$57bo2bo$58bo2$53bo$51b
o2bo$51bo2bo$51bobo7$48b2o$47bobo$47bo$46b2o11b2o$59bo$60b3o$62bo!
[[ HISTORYSTATES 0 AGESTATES 0 ]]
For patterns where HISTORYSTATES and/or AGESTATES are 0, should ALIVERAMP, DEAD or DEADRAMP be displayed at all in Help > Themes, or not? They currently are, even though they can never be seen in this case (see above pattern).

Saving in higher-range rules still appears to be counting dead cells in some situations. Run this to generation 24, select the middle cell (or indeed any isolated cell), clear outside, get rid of the selection rectangle and then save the pattern. You should just get a 1x1 dot result again, but you instead get a 139x139 pattern whose only contents are a living dot.

Code: Select all

x = 1, y = 1, rule = R3,C2,S0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,B1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,NN
o!
[[ ZOOM 4 ]]
Since it's not possible to save images directly from LifeViewer on mobile platforms (iOS), would it be possible to include an image embed in viewer.html which any saved images would get placed into, such that they can be saved via that? I think this was present on the page before, but has since been removed.

Would it be possible to add buttons to generate a random population-preserving rule or random reversible rule in the Margolus rulespace? I know there are script commands for this, but dedicated buttons appear to be absent.

Finally, would it be possible to include a mouse in hotkeys.png to indicate what each mouse button/the scroll wheel does?

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by b-engine » March 31st, 2024, 11:04 am

(If there's a more appropriate thread, please move or tell a mod to move it. Also, this applies to Golly and other similar CA simulators too.)

I don't know why variables are shared in a transition, so I think making a "local variable" would help shortening ruletables.
A local variable doesn't get interfered with other local variable in the same transition, means that they're independent of each other.
An example:

Code: Select all

var a = {0,1}
lvar b = {0,2}
0,a,a,a,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,2,b,b,0,0,0,0,0,2
The transitions above causes a dead cell to turn into state 1 cell if it has precisely 0 or 3 state 1 neighbours, but turn into state 2 when it has 1,2 or 3 state 2 neighbours (0 had overtook by state 1).

If there's a known function exactly same to it (expect using multiple variables), please inform me.
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confocaloid
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by confocaloid » March 31st, 2024, 11:44 pm

b-engine wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 11:04 am
IIRC rueltabel/Nutshell allows something close to what you're asking (in addition to alot of other things not easily available with plain ruletables), but you will need to read the documentation and learn how to use it.

As for "why", it simply makes sense to ensure that every named variable always has the same value within a single rule. If you are writing

Code: Select all

var a={0,1,2,3}
0,a,a,a,0,0,0,0,0,1
then that can be expanded to four variable-free rules:

Code: Select all

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,2,2,2,0,0,0,0,0,1
0,3,3,3,0,0,0,0,0,1
If you want the three occurrences of "a" within the rule to refer to three independent variables, then you need to make three different named variables instead:

Code: Select all

var a1={0,1,2,3}
var a2=a1
var a3=a1
0,a1,a2,a3,0,0,0,0,0,1
This time, the single rule above will expand to 4^3 = 64 variable-free rules instead.

It is convenient to have this choice between having one variable and having several independent variables. It is less confusing ("principle of least astonishment"), compared to the alternative of silently interpreting different occurrences of "a" within the same rule as referring to different variables.
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Unlikely events happen.
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b-engine
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by b-engine » April 1st, 2024, 4:47 am

confocaloid wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 11:44 pm
If you want the three occurrences of "a" within the rule to refer to three independent variables, then you need to make three different named variables instead:

Code: Select all

var a1={0,1,2,3}
var a2=a1
var a3=a1
0,a1,a2,a3,0,0,0,0,0,1
This time, the single rule above will expand to 4^3 = 64 variable-free rules instead.
I had already knew that.

confocaloid wrote:
March 31st, 2024, 11:44 pm
It is convenient to have this choice between having one variable and having several independent variables. It is less confusing ("principle of least astonishment"), compared to the alternative of silently interpreting different occurrences of "a" within the same rule as referring to different variables.
The problem is this would make certain ruletables to become bulky, like the example below:

Code: Select all

@RULE Ignorance
@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
var a = {0,1,2}
var a1 = a
var a2 = a
var a3 = a
var a4 = a
var a5 = a
var a6 = a
var a7 = a
var a8 = a
var b = {0,2}
var b1 = b
var b2 = b
var b3 = b
var b4 = b
var c = {0,1}
var c1 = c
var c2 = c
var c3 = c
var c4 = c
0,1,1,1,2,2,2,0,0,0
0,1,1,1,b,b1,b2,b3,b4,1
0,2,2,2,c,c1,c2,c3,c4,2
1,1,1,a,b,b1,b2,b3,b4,1
2,2,2,a,c,c1,c2,c3,c4,2
a,a1,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,0
@COLORS
1 255 150 0
2 0 92 255
Can been shortened into this:

Code: Select all

@RULE Ignorance
@TABLE
n_states:3
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:permute
lvar a = {0,1,2}
lvar b = {0,2}
lvar c = {0,1}
0,1,1,1,2,2,2,0,0,0
0,1,1,1,b,b,b,b,b,1
0,2,2,2,c,c,c,c,c,2
1,1,1,a,b,b,b,b,b,1
2,2,2,a,c,c,c,c,c,2
a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,0
@COLORS
1 255 150 0
2 0 92 255
The "local variable" could shorten the ruletable a lot of lines. If that's confusing, the legacy way still can been used.
(Of course the local variable won't confuse me. I also made the local variable independent so that the old bulky way still can been used)
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confocaloid
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by confocaloid » April 1st, 2024, 2:41 pm

I like the existing ruletables the way they are. I don't really want the existing system to become "legacy". Yes, if you need multiple independent named variables, then you have to define them explicitly, and explicitly say which values are allowed for every named variable. That keeps ruletables easy to read and understand, because all occurrences of a name within a rule always refer to the same variable.

Note that the same thing happens in general in different contexts. For example when you try to configure Logic Life Search to solve some puzzle. In general, as long as you use variables, there will be multiple variables like "a13" and "a52".
b-engine wrote:
April 1st, 2024, 4:47 am
[...] If that's confusing, the legacy way still can been used.
(Of course the local variable won't confuse me. [...]
Maybe it won't confuse you. But I'm sure it will confuse other people, who will have to read the ruletable to understand how it works. Readability is more important than writability.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic rules, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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muzik
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » April 2nd, 2024, 1:00 pm

Use Identify on this for a hilarious infinite loop:

Code: Select all

x = 378, y = 392, rule = B3-r4cekz5ai6-ae78/S2ae3-ai4-cekz5r678
25$62b2o$61bob2o$61b3o$62bo$66bo$65bobo$66bob2o$67b3o$67b3ob2o$72bo$
69bob2o$69b3o7$73bo$72b4o$72b4o$73b4o$74b2o$69bobo$69bo$69b3o2$64bobo$
64bob2o$64b2o$65b3o8$95bo$93bo$92b3o$93bo$91bo$96b2o$96b2obo2$97bo3b4o
$100bob2o$99bob3o$99b4obo$99b3o$99bo2bo6$102bobo$101b3o2bo$101b4o$102b
4obo$103b4o$104b4o$99bobo3b2o2$101bo2$97bo2$95bo8$124bo2$124bo$118b4o
4b2o$118bo2b5obo$118bo2b3ob2o$118b4ob2o$119b2o2bo$119b4o$115bobobobo$
119b2o$118bobo$118b2o4$121b2o$121b3o$121bo2bo$122b4o$122b4o$122b2o2b2o
$121bo2bob3o$120b4ob3obo$120b4ob3ob2o$121b4o3b3o$122b2o15$150b2o$151b
2o$148bob4o$150b5o$149bo3bobo14b4o$151b2ob3o12bob3o$153bob3o11b4obo$
153bob4o10b4o$155b2obo7b3o$154bo10bob2o$156bo8b4o$165b4o$165b2o$167bo
19$189bo$189b3obo$189b3o2bo$189bob2o11bobo$190bob3o7bo2b3o$191bob2o9b
4o$192b4o5bob4o$188bo13b4o$201b4o$202b2o3bobo2$207bo2$211bo2$213bo28$
233bo$232b4o$231b4o$233b3o$229b6o$229b4ob2o$227bob2ob2o$226b2ob4o$225b
5obo$226b5o$226bobobo18bo$245bob3o$244bo2b3o$246b2obo$244b3obo$244b2ob
o$243b4o$250bo23$279bo$275bob3o$274bo2b3o$276b2obo$274b3obo$274b2obo$
273b4o$280bo4bo$285b2o$284bobo7$289bo$288b4o$287b4o$289b3o$285b6o$285b
4ob2o$283bob2ob2o$282b2ob4o$281b5obo$282b5o$282bobobo16$320bo$321b2o$
319b4o$319b4o$319b2obo$319b3o$315b4o$313bob4o11b3o$314b3obo13bo$314b4o
13bo2$333b2o$332b3o$332b3o$338b2o$337b4o$336b4o$335b5o$335b5o$336bo!
[[ MAXGRIDSIZE 9 KILLGLIDERS ZOOM -1 ]]

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confocaloid
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by confocaloid » April 2nd, 2024, 3:23 pm

muzik wrote:
April 2nd, 2024, 1:00 pm
Use Identify on this for a hilarious infinite loop:
The pattern appears to be from DN74 thread: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6442

The numbers appear too quickly to write down the sequence in order, but there were numbers 74 148 222 296 370 444 518 592 666 740 814 888 962 1036 before I stopped. (Build 1127) Is this even a loop? Does the sequence have a simple description?

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rowett
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » April 3rd, 2024, 10:01 am

muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 7:24 am
... once this stops, zoom out until you're just slightly further out than -1.0, and the layers will imply you're on a different generation than you actually are (seems to be generation 26, even though the pattern is at generation 27).
Fixed, thanks.
muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 7:24 am
... if, after the above pattern stops, you zoom out a lot (around -10x), then play the batten to around a hundred generations, then pause it and zoom back in, things look wrong, and the pattern no longer visually evolves if you play again even though it should.
Fixed, thanks.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » April 3rd, 2024, 10:02 am

muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 9:07 am
At this point I think I have it figured out: this only happens when opening the graph when the draw tool is active. Since the draw tool hides the graph, pressing the graph button in settings won't bring it up, even though the viewer thinks it should be present.
Switching on the Population Graph now automatically selects Pan mode.
muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 9:07 am
Invalid state handling not revealing internal state colours anymore like it used to
This is by design.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » April 3rd, 2024, 10:05 am

muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 6:36 pm
Also, it's possible for a spaceship's speed to be calculated by Identify but it to die via the boundary before it can compute further statistics. Could a table still be produced with limited info in such a case?
No. It's literally an edge case.
muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 6:36 pm
Speaking of Identify: it'd be useful if when Identify doesn't detect periodicity, or the pattern dies out, if the elapsed time could still be displayed in Help > Info > Identify for benchmarking purposes.
It's not useful enough to warrant the effort.
muzik wrote:
March 30th, 2024, 6:36 pm
It still seems to be the case that the population displayed in the graph will be off by one if the pattern is modified via drawing.
Fixed, thanks.

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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by rowett » April 3rd, 2024, 10:05 am

muzik wrote:
April 2nd, 2024, 1:00 pm
Use Identify on this for a hilarious infinite loop
Fixed, thanks.

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muzik
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Re: Pattern viewer for forum threads

Post by muzik » April 6th, 2024, 12:18 pm

Is PASTET supposed to create previously-alive dead cells in places where it's used to stop cells from being born naturally?

Code: Select all

x = 3, y = 5, rule = B3/S23
2o$obo$2bo$obo$2o!
[[ PASTEMODE XOR PASTET EVERY 1 1 PASTE o! 3 2 ]]

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