Splitting up the forums further

[muzik]

Just a proposal for the sake of organization (if you can call my unorthodox ways of thinking organized).

- Conwaylife.com
* Website Discussion
* Bugs and Errors
- Game of Life
* General Discussion
* Still Lifes and Oscillators (close enough to be grouped into one forum I guess)
* Spaceships (felt it might be more convenient if we have seperate threads in here dedicated to searching for/construction of specific types of spaceships, and to move all of the current spaceship topics)
* Guns and Conduits
* Other Patterns (such as puffers, replicators, sawtooths, unit cells, syntheses and so on)
* Scripts
- Other Discussion
* Other Cellular Automata (honestly these usually aren't that related to the game of life, so this shouldn't really be in there)
* The Sandbox

[biggiemac]

The only change mentioned I agree with is moving OCA to the same header as Sandbox, "Other discussion" seems as good a title as any. I feel like the broad header of "patterns" is fine as it is. The more branched it is, the harder the search feature is to use, since it searches only within a forum. Sometimes there are already issues, for example if I can't remember whether something originally got posted in scripts or patterns when it could reasonably fall in either.

[muzik]

Righto... how about having Still Lifes and Oscillators, Spaceships, and Guns and Conduits as subforums of Patterns?

[dvgrn]

Righto... how about having Still Lifes and Oscillators, Spaceships, and Guns and Conduits as subforums of Patterns?

If there's a way to set it up so that optional tags can be added to message threads, and the Patterns view can be sorted or filtered by tag, then I'd be all for it. Otherwise it seems like a lot more categories would be needed: where would a new thread on *WSS slow salvos go, or where would I put my quadratic-replicator or spiral-growth thread?

I think biggiemac's concern about searching is somewhat valid, but I always use the advanced search instead of the "Search this forum" bar anyway, and that automatically searches all forums and subforums. On the other hand, it's unnecessarily painful to get to -- click "View your posts", then "< Return to advanced search" -- so maybe a good feature request would be to make an "Advanced Search" link always available, even from the main page.

-- Of course phpBB searches are still awful in many other ways, throwing out words if they're "too common" or too short, even if the combination of search words would actually produce a unique result. Whenever I _really_ want to find something on the forums, I use Google:

search terms "maybe in quotes" site:www.conwaylife.com/forums

I do agree that the Patterns forum is a huge miscellaneous mess, and interesting stuff gets lost very easily. Some kind of optional categorization would be great to have, and/or sorting by something other than last-modified date.

Some kind of optional sorted view, maybe, along the lines of the "tags" I suggested, or by total number of responses or views or some other measure of general interestingness? I don't really know what might be available within the phpBB system.

[muzik]

Righto... how about having Still Lifes and Oscillators, Spaceships, and Guns and Conduits as subforums of Patterns?

If there's a way to set it up so that optional tags can be added to message threads, and the Patterns view can be sorted or filtered by tag, then I'd be all for it. Otherwise it seems like a lot more categories would be needed: where would a new thread on *WSS slow salvos go, or where would I put my quadratic-replicator or spiral-growth thread?

These would come under Other Patterns.

Come to think of it, though, it might be better if we keep Patterns as a postable-in forum, and anything that does not directly relate to my aforementioned categories could go into this main forum. Less unneccesary forums that way.

I think biggiemac's concern about searching is somewhat valid, but I always use the advanced search instead of the "Search this forum" bar anyway, and that automatically searches all forums and subforums. On the other hand, it's unnecessarily painful to get to -- click "View your posts", then "< Return to advanced search" -- so maybe a good feature request would be to make an "Advanced Search" link always available, even from the main page.

...

I do agree that the Patterns forum is a huge miscellaneous mess, and interesting stuff gets lost very easily. Some kind of optional categorization would be great to have, and/or sorting by something other than last-modified date.

Some kind of optional sorted view, maybe, along the lines of the "tags" I suggested, or by total number of responses or views or some other measure of general interestingness? I don't really know what might be available within the phpBB system.

Having these subforums kind of eliminates the need for these tags anyway, unless you would use them for slightly more specific terms (e.g. "salvo synthesis", "SSM breeder")

Of course, this is assuming that phpBB supports the addition of subforums, which it probably does.

I agree on the sorting bit as well. Usually, on a lot of sites I go to you can click "views", "replies" etc to automatically bring you to the respective search, but it seems that's not supported.

[muzik]

So has any of this been taken into consideration?

On a distantly related note, there seems to be a lot of threads that I'm not sure where shouid go. Would "List of rules with X" threads go in OCA or Patterns?

[Rhombic]

I don't think that this change would greatly benefit the structure of the forums in any noticeable way. This would bring new questions, such as whether Life-like non-totalistic rules deserve a different subforum to differentiate them from Rule Tables, generations, and so on.

[muzik]

Thought it might be worthwhile to revisit a concept such as this, given that the scope of OCA exploration has expanded significantly over the last five years - Golly introducing modern support for LTL and later allowing HROT as well, lifelib and co's support for searching new and obscure rule types, and LifeViewer basically spearheading the whole movement with its ridiculously diverse cast of usable rules. And taking into account how they're split in the Discord server, a dedicated OCA subforum makes too much sense to not have at this point.

I'd assume that the subforums could be categorised as follows (names are absolutely subject to change):
- "Life-Like" - 2D 2-state range-1: outer-totalistic rules, isotropic non-totalistic rules, and non-isotropic rules, on square/hexagonal/triangular grids
- "Larger than Life" - much like the above, for anything with a range above 1
- "Others" - Margolus, PCA, BSFKL, deficient, generations/genext (possibly - may be better to include this in the above two instead), alternating
- "Complex" - rules requiring ruletables and which do not belong to any above rule families, and any rule families not mentioned above
- Possibly also a fifth one which isn't specifically dedicated to rules, but rather to OCA theory stuff (like my recent hex/triangular grid post) and collections of patterns form various rules and possibly families (5s, rules with replicators, adjustable ships)

Of course, I definitely want to hear the input of others for a change such as this.

[Tropylium]

Coming back to the forums from since before this thread was started, the OCA category that seems to have ballooned the most since then are isotropic nontotalistic rules. Some kind of a separate subforum for these would at least make it easier to find where discussion of e.g. Life-like CA is around these days. But maybe what is needed is, rather, some kind of a thread index for specific rules? This could be just put e.g. on the wiki.

[dvgrn]

Coming back to the forums from since before this thread was started, the OCA category that seems to have ballooned the most since then are isotropic nontotalistic rules. Some kind of a separate subforum for these would at least make it easier to find where discussion of e.g. Life-like CA is around these days. But maybe what is needed is, rather, some kind of a thread index for specific rules? This could be just put e.g. on the wiki.

There might be something like this out there already, on somebody's user page on the wiki. I try to leave it to other people to keep track of OCA stuff, since I don't have enough brain cells even to keep up with plain-vanilla Life. But there was some discussion of the idea here a few years ago. I haven't tried to find Saka's GitHub account and see if there's a file there like the one described.

[erictom333]

Here's my 2 cents (sorry if this is a necro; I don't know the definition here).
Patterns

• Stationary Technology (still lives, oscillators, guns)
  Moving Technology (spaceships, puffers, rakes)
  Signal Circutry
  Syntheses
  Engineering (large patterns like Gemini or the 0E0P metapixel)
  Other

Other Cellular Automata

• OCA Rules
  OCA Discussion

[muzik]

Here's my 2 cents (sorry if this is a necro; I don't know the definition here).
Patterns

• Stationary Technology (still lives, oscillators, guns)
  Moving Technology (spaceships, puffers, rakes)
  Signal Circutry
  Syntheses
  Engineering (large patterns like Gemini or the 0E0P metapixel)
  Other

Other Cellular Automata

• OCA Rules
  OCA Discussion

That splitting of Patterns seems fine to me. I'd still recommend dividing OCA a bit further though.

[bprentice]

This discussion seems to have ignored patterns that can't be run on Golly or LifeViewer. Should these patterns be allowed on this forum?

Brian Prentice

[Nathaniel]

OK, I'm (finally) having a more serious look at this, and I'm looking for community feedback. I'm currently planning on splitting up the forums something like this (note that this partitioning of the board has 3 "layers" since it uses subforums, which haven't been used on this site yet):

ConwayLife.com (no change)

Game of Life

• General Discussion
• Scripts
• Patterns
  • Stationary Technology (still lives, oscillators, guns)
  • Moving Technology (spaceships, puffers, rakes)
  • Circuitry and Conduits
  • Syntheses
  • Engineering (large patterns like Gemini or the 0E0P metapixel)

(side note: any "other" patterns can be posted in the "Patterns" forum, without specifying a specific subforum)

Other Cellular Automata

• General Discussion
• Some other subforums -- discuss what they should be!

The Sandbox (no change)

With that in mind -- discuss! I'll check back in a few days, and hopefully somewhat of a consensus regarding how to split up the OCA forum has been reached by then.

[hotdogPi]

I oppose splitting up Patterns. This is a low-volume forum compared to many others, and it takes about 1 1/2 months for something to fall off the first page of the Patterns board.

[GUYTU6J]

Splitting up the Patterns board also puts the three general threads for your useless/accidental/unsure discoveries in an uncomfortable place. Do we have a tag-and-filter mechanism in phpBB that allows for a different categorization method than subforums? While clearly dedicated threads have certain tags for sorting, unclear/general threads can simply omit any tags.

As for the OCA part, my thoughts are pretty similar to that of muzik's:

• "General Discussion" for general theories and possibly programs/simulators;
• "Range-1 Life-like" for 2D 2-state range-1 outer-totalistic rules, isotropic non-totalistic rules, and non-isotropic rules, on square/hexagonal/triangular grids;
• "Higher-range and Generations" for two generalizations of the 2D rules above, namely higher range and longer generations, custom weighted neighbourhood allowed;
• "Others" for everything else, including but not limited to Margolus, PCA, BSFKL, deficient, naive, extended/investigator/symbiosis, colorized, loops, termites, constructor-computer rules, non-2D rules, other random ruletables, and whatever else developed by bprentice (sorry if a bit rude)

[Nathaniel]

Do we have a tag-and-filter mechanism in phpBB that allows for a different categorization method than subforums?

This is do-able, yes -- there are phpBB extensions that allow tags to be added to topics (and you can search or browse by tag, if you like).

[muzik]

I definitely prefer the proposed Patterns split, but it seems I'm in a minority in this one.

As for OCA, here's my current proposal (names are rough drafts and can be changed):
- OCA General: OCA discussion and theory, simulation programs, pattern collections such as 5s
- Basic rules: includes 2-state outer-totalistic (any range), isotropic non-totalistic and non-isotropic. 3-state outer-totalistic and isotropic non-totalistic rules could also go here, but I'm not sure.
- Extended rules: Generations/Extended Generations/BSFKL/deficient versions of the above, and any other rulespaces which may come along which can be considered "extensions" of basic rules
- Other rules: the rest of the rules, such as anything that isn't run on the 2D square/triangular/hexagonal grids, as well as Margolus, PCA, simulation-order variants such as naive rules, loops, turmites, JvN-type rules, misc ruletables, and so on

[yujh]

For me I would strongly disagree splitting the OCA. First splitting the thing to OCA general and basic rules will not work, they are closely tied together.(how is simulating programs a thing? that goes to scripts) Splitting up rules will not be good as well. well people talk bout mainly int and OT, (sometimes something that goes to conwaylife lounge #circuity will pop out) so it's not worth it.

[bprentice]

(how is simulating programs a thing? that goes to scripts)

CA Simulators are not scripts. Is Golly a script?

Rather than reorganize the OCA board, an index of important threads would be useful. But sadly, the current active members of this forum would never agree on what is important.

Brian Prentice

[yujh]

(how is simulating programs a thing? that goes to scripts)

CA Simulators are not scripts. Is Golly a script?

Rather than reorganize the OCA board, an index of important threads would be useful. But sadly, the current active members of this forum would never agree on what is important.

Brian Prentice

I don't want to start an argument, but you will have to look at these viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4391 viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5252

also I do agree on the last statement. They are as important, to be honest, so one shouldn't say TFYOCA and MDIOCA is better than say the LeapLife thread. They have different functions

[GUYTU6J]

Now that there are opposing opinions towards the forums split, what do the community think of the tag idea?

Do we have a tag-and-filter mechanism in phpBB that allows for a different categorization method than subforums?

This is do-able, yes -- there are phpBB extensions that allow tags to be added to topics (and you can search or browse by tag, if you like).

And I forget to ask, who has/have the right to add/edit/remove tags for a topic? Moderators, the topic creator, or every forums user?

[Nathaniel]

And I forget to ask, who has/have the right to add/edit/remove tags for a topic? Moderators, the topic creator, or every forums user?

The topic creator and moderators would be able to add/edit/remove tags from a topic. When creating a topic, the author would be able to type in new tags from scratch, or select from a list of tags already in use. Moderators (behind the scenes) would be able to do things like merge different tags into one (so that if people made an "oscillator" tag, and then an "oscillators" tag, for example, they could be merged).

[hotdogPi]

I support the tag idea.

The thread creator should be able to add tags at any time, not just as it's being created.