What should be done to the Sandbox?

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What should be done to prevent further pollution of the Sandbox?

Poll ended at April 20th, 2021, 12:58 pm

Moderate the Sandbox more strictly with help from new moderators
1
8%
Lock/delete the Sandbox altogether
1
8%
Impose a post limit, whether by number or number in a given time (e.g. once per day)
2
17%
Lock threads and ban accounts that have nothing to do with CA and/or have a low signal-to-noise ratio (e.g. Lying Thread)
5
42%
Add a rule where you need permission from a moderator to create a thread not relating to CA
3
25%
 
Total votes: 12

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creeperman7002
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What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by creeperman7002 » March 21st, 2021, 12:58 pm

As usual, there was a lot of discussion recently about the Sandbox being polluted by threads not relating to CA and what should be done to prevent it. If nothing is done, then I'm worried that the pollution will cause mass clutter, the Sandbox to be more toxic, and repulsion of newcomers from these forums. I will let the voters decide what should be done to the Sandbox. You may select more than one option and voting will end 1 month from now.
B2n3-jn/S1c23-y is an interesting rule. It has a replicator, a fake glider, an OMOS and SMOS, a wide variety of oscillators, and some signals. Also this rule is omniperiodic.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4856

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praosylen
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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by praosylen » March 21st, 2021, 5:23 pm

With all due respect, I don't think it's really our place to be making polls like this... these options seem like they're just things you came up with and foisted on the community without discussing anything first, whereas ideally we would need a clear consensus among both moderators and a large subset of normal users on what the options for voting would be if we were to have any kind of vote on this, which again would need moderator consensus and support from a large subset of normal users as something that would even be a good idea in the first place.

Honestly, these threads are themselves in so many ways a reflection of the "sandbox mentality" that has happened to this forum recently in my opinion: When I first joined, creating a new thread was something people would usually only do in rare circumstances, and it was often a big deal. When the Sandbox opened up people initially followed the spirit of that unwritten rule — which was that people should only create new threads if they thought the subject of the new thread would be important or sufficiently interesting to people and not fit somewhere else, or if they thought it fulfilled a useful role that other people would also see a need for. A lot of the early threads in the Sandbox that have still been active recently (like Absolutely Useless Patterns and even Random Posts) did follow that even if they don't superficially seem like it: they were places that served to attract the "noise" away from the diminishing signal-to-noise ratio elsewhere in the forums. I do partly disagree with Random Posts being locked, since I feel like it has the potential to continue to divert noisy posts away from other more "signal"-rich threads in the Sandbox and elsewhere... That aside, the problem has always been that new users have been more likely to post new topics than established users, since unless they've been lurking for a while they haven't learned that piece of forum etiquette — and once they encountered the Sandbox, where they didn't need to worry about moderators merging, locking, or deleting redundant, pointless, or unnecessary threads, and where established users were more lax about diverting them to what would have been the appropriate threads, the "don't make new threads unless you have a good reason" unwritten rule essentially disappeared in the Sandbox — and then started to erode outside it. (I don't think the Sandbox is 100% responsible for the shift elsewhere, since I could definitely pin part of the blame on the structure of the OCA forum not being well-suited to exploring thousands of different INT rules at once rather than tens to hundreds of outer-totalistic, generations, etc. rules at once like before INT rules came into the vogue, or simply on the somewhat increasing activity and popularity of the forums over the past few years... But I think it's clear it's been a large part of the cause.)

Whatever the cause, what's happened is that people don't think as carefully about whether their new thread — or by extension whatever they have to say in their new thread, or even in normal posts (even though thread-making etiquette is a large driver of the change in mentality imo it's not the only area where the changes have happened) — is worthwhile, appropriate to the forums, or will be welcomed by the community. At the risk of sounding like a curmudgeon at the ripe old age of twenty, it seems like users now seem to think they can ask people to do whatever they want to, direct people's attention to whatever they want to, and take authority over whatever they want to, without being questioned in it, especially when starting new threads, and it's diminishing the quality of the forums greatly... I hope it doesn't feel like I'm calling you out, I understand you want to help, but I don't think polls like this help anything — in fact, if it was up to me I would disallow user-created polls entirely, but again obviously that would be something requiring moderator and to a lesser extent community consensus to implement. I do think some of the proposals you give deserve consideration — I like that you identify people creating new threads as the problem, but I'm not sure it's a question of whether they're CA related or not, because a lot of the same problems have happened intermittently in the OCA forum and even Patterns to a lesser extent with the proliferation of minimally distinct conduit threads that seem to exist just because someone wanted an excuse to make a new thread. I definitely feel like somehow the standards for making threads need to change but I don't know if any of the rules changes you propose would do that, or if it's a rules change rather than simply community awareness of the problem that would be the best solution... Anyway, those are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by {censored} » March 21st, 2021, 6:41 pm

Reporting this as it is essentially a copy of my poll.
Hello!I am {censored}. I like doing {censored},{censored} and sometimes also {censored}. I live in {censored}.
Every day things are heating up more and more.
We must fight for the future of The Sandbox together!

Also,{censored}.

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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by praosylen » March 21st, 2021, 6:56 pm

{censored} wrote:
March 21st, 2021, 6:41 pm
Reporting this as it is essentially a copy of my poll.
Please just stop reporting posts — you clearly don't have a good enough sense of what needs mod attention and what will just anger mods further. I don't think you even recognize that excessive reports are a lot of what's caused this fiasco in the first place. If you want the Sandbox not to be closed, reporting posts for reasons that are less than 100% unambiguously and critically necessary is not going to help you at all — in fact, you'd most likely be better off never reporting another post in your life than keeping doing things like this. I'd ordinarily never suggest something like that, and maybe I'm exaggerating somewhat, but the excessive reports for sure need to stop.
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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by {censored} » March 22nd, 2021, 2:15 am

Okay.
I want to be a moderator one day and I must learn to report well.
Hello!I am {censored}. I like doing {censored},{censored} and sometimes also {censored}. I live in {censored}.
Every day things are heating up more and more.
We must fight for the future of The Sandbox together!

Also,{censored}.

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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by yujh » March 22nd, 2021, 6:19 am

{censored} wrote:
March 22nd, 2021, 2:15 am
Okay.
I want to be a moderator one day and I must learn to report well.
No because that’s why you aren’t a moderator.
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

Rule modifier

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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by {censored} » March 22nd, 2021, 6:54 am

yujh wrote:
March 22nd, 2021, 6:19 am
{censored} wrote:
March 22nd, 2021, 2:15 am
Okay.
I want to be a moderator one day and I must learn to report well.
No because that’s why you aren’t a moderator.
And this is why you are not a moderator.
Think yourself what this could mean.
Hello!I am {censored}. I like doing {censored},{censored} and sometimes also {censored}. I live in {censored}.
Every day things are heating up more and more.
We must fight for the future of The Sandbox together!

Also,{censored}.

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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by yujh » March 22nd, 2021, 7:37 am

Hello!I am {censored}. I like doing {censored},{censored} and sometimes also {censored}. I live in {censored}.
Every day things are heating up more and more.
We must fight for the future of The Sandbox together!
Also,{censored}.
(smaller words here for bigger space) sorry are you joking or joking?!
{censored} wrote:
March 22nd, 2021, 6:54 am
And this is why you are not a moderator.
Think yourself what this could mean.
You're being a bit rude right here( and lets stop all arguments related to sandbox from now on! :) )
I wouldn't like to be a moderator because it would be quite a hard job.
Being a moderator is not to allow anyting to happen, but to stop too much off-topic posts to exist.
I do have some spamming posts, so I think i'm not able to be a moderator.(I now highly suspect that you are BokaBB-related or probably BokaBB-like. lol

Sandbox is making too much noise but there's also good things inside, like e.g. https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4959 is quite appreciated. This is not chatroom(but is spamming in chatrooms welcomed?)
It was originally intended to offload some of the less constructive threads and posts from the patterns forum, as well as giving new users a place to introduce themselves and get a feel for the forums
I quite agree with swoke. The sandbo is overused these days, but it does not offload quite a lot of useless posts in patterns or OCA, which makes me quitemad about the forum these days.

I found other people quite mad these days, and i actually don't want to see a lot of bans in order to encourage newcommers to join. But if we don't, the situation here is really out of control.My own suggestion would be giving a bit stricter laws to members here who has joined for a month, but I'm not quite sure about that.

Stop sandbox discussions as good examples have been set!!!Thank you dvgrn for tiding a lot these days!
Nothing to apgsearch? Try b38s23/C1!

B34kz5e7c8/S23-a4ityz5k!!!

b2n3-q5y6cn7s23-k4c8

B3-kq6cn8/S2-i3-a4ciyz8

B3-kq4z5e7c8/S2-ci3-a4ciq5ek6eik7

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Re: What should be done to the Sandbox?

Post by Moosey » March 22nd, 2021, 9:14 pm

100% agree with prao. Esp. that really this choice isn't up to us. Also, regarding the proposed options, here are my two cents:
(1) Moderate the Sandbox more strictly with help from new moderators:
This creates more work for the moderators. A lot of the recent sandbox drama has been because excessive amounts of work for the moderators. I am not a mod and cannot speak for the mod team, but I doubt that they would relish this proposal.
(2) Lock/delete the Sandbox altogether
Locking or otherwise archiving would probably be the best solution. It's easier for the mods than the other options.
(3) Impose a post limit, whether by number or number in a given time (e.g. once per day)
I don't know if this is possible, but number/time would be the way to go of the two. If this cannot be automated however it should not be done because once again it would create too much work for the moderators.
(4) Lock threads and ban accounts that have nothing to do with CA and/or have a low signal-to-noise ratio (e.g. Lying Thread)
This is a lot of work for moderators and banning accounts seems a bit extreme.
(5) Add a rule where you need permission from a moderator to create a thread not relating to CA
Again, too much work for the mods. Imagine the flood of PM's they'd get if this happens.

A better option would be to just get the community to stop creating low signal-to-noise posts and threads as much as possible. This would make work lighter for the moderators; sadly, I doubt that this will ever happen. With the amount of users that are at least somewhat active, getting everyone to embrace a high signal-to-noise presence on the forums would be less than practical. Nonetheless, I suggest that all the readers of this post ought to try to avoid creating excess work for the moderators.

(Note: I'm not fully informed on the situation because I haven't devoted my time to determining what's going on the forums, and I skimmed quite a few paragraphs relevant to this situation, so forgive me if there's something I missed that makes this post stupid)
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