Golly's rule bug?

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PHPBB12345
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Golly's rule bug?

Post by PHPBB12345 » April 23rd, 2016, 7:53 am

Code: Select all

@RULE also-test-rule

@TABLE
n_states:2
neighborhood:Moore
symmetries:none

var a={0,1}
var b={0,1}
var c={0,1}
var d={0,1}
var e={0,1}
var f={0,1}
var g={0,1}
var h={0,1}
var i={0,1}

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,1

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dvgrn
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by dvgrn » April 23rd, 2016, 8:22 am

PHPBB12345 wrote:

Code: Select all

@RULE also-test-rule...
What behavior are you seeing? And what do you think the behavior should be?

I think the Golly Gang is reasonably happy with what Golly does with this kind of rule -- turns bigger and bigger blocks of cells ON as a pattern is run. That seems like a decent approximation of what this rule is asking for.

Maybe some future edition of Golly HashLife will be able to handle a default "background tile" that is all ON cells instead of all OFF cells, or all zebra-stripes agar or something. That would allow for some interesting new simulations. But as far as I know, a feature like that is not even really on the drawing board yet.

For this rule, the population would become infinite at T=1, so something strange would have to be done -- maybe display the number of additional ON cells that Golly is tracking besides the default background ones. That would always remain a finite number, at least as long as the background tile is a stable agar... but it might be a negative number sometimes.

I just ran a random initial configuration up to generation 8,312, at which point the population was a little over 10^500. Golly didn't seem to be having any difficulties. Is there a bug that I'm not seeing?

FractalFusion
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by FractalFusion » April 24th, 2016, 7:55 pm

As of now, Golly RuleLoader does not support 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 "correctly"; it makes exponentially expanding blocks when, mathematically speaking, all cells out to infinity should be turned on. This shouldn't be much of an issue though, because of the following fix.

If you want a rule that turns on an empty cell when surrounded by empty space (and thus turns on all cells out to infinity), simply implement the proper on-off-reversal version of it.

For example, to run B02346/S023, alternate between the inverse rule (B1578/S145678) and the upside-down rule (B568/S24568) every generation.

By the way, Golly's QuickLife already supports semi-totalistic B0 rules using the above method, so there is no need to use RuleLoader for semi-totalistic B0 rules.

I think the bug here is that 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1 is even usable at all; it would probably be better just to flag it as an error.

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gameoflifemaniac
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by gameoflifemaniac » January 28th, 2017, 5:44 am

Is it possible to make a rule whose population after one generation is infinite?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

Saka
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by Saka » January 28th, 2017, 6:55 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is it possible to make a rule whose population after one generation is infinite?
No
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by Gamedziner » January 28th, 2017, 8:57 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is it possible to make a rule whose population after one generation is infinite?
Yes, B0.

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 96, rule = LifeHistory
58.2A$58.2A3$59.2A17.2A$59.2A17.2A3$79.2A$79.2A2$57.A$56.A$56.3A4$27.
A$27.A.A$27.2A21$3.2A$3.2A2.2A$7.2A18$7.2A$7.2A2.2A$11.2A11$2A$2A2.2A
$4.2A18$4.2A$4.2A2.2A$8.2A!

Saka
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by Saka » January 28th, 2017, 9:15 am

Gamedziner wrote:
gameoflifemaniac wrote:Is it possible to make a rule whose population after one generation is infinite?
Yes, B0.
False. As the community has told you, B0 does not mean B0, please do not be the next gustavo
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

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gameoflifemaniac
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by gameoflifemaniac » January 28th, 2017, 9:48 am

But is there a rule that simulated in Golly will get infinite population?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ
One big dirty Oro. Yeeeeeeeeee...

Saka
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Joined: June 19th, 2015, 8:50 pm
Location: In the kingdom of Sultan Hamengkubuwono X

Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by Saka » January 28th, 2017, 9:55 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:But is there a rule that simulated in Golly will get infinite population?
No. Besides, there are easier ways to crash golly
Airy Clave White It Nay

Code: Select all

x = 17, y = 10, rule = B3/S23
b2ob2obo5b2o$11b4obo$2bob3o2bo2b3o$bo3b2o4b2o$o2bo2bob2o3b4o$bob2obo5b
o2b2o$2b2o4bobo2b3o$bo3b5ob2obobo$2bo5bob2o$4bob2o2bobobo!
(Check gen 2)

Gamedziner
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Joined: May 30th, 2016, 8:47 pm
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by Gamedziner » January 28th, 2017, 10:22 am

gameoflifemaniac wrote:But is there a rule that simulated in Golly will get infinite population?
Oh, in that case no. Besides, any truly infinite grid would crash the (real life) universe. Information density has a limit.

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 96, rule = LifeHistory
58.2A$58.2A3$59.2A17.2A$59.2A17.2A3$79.2A$79.2A2$57.A$56.A$56.3A4$27.
A$27.A.A$27.2A21$3.2A$3.2A2.2A$7.2A18$7.2A$7.2A2.2A$11.2A11$2A$2A2.2A
$4.2A18$4.2A$4.2A2.2A$8.2A!

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calcyman
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Re: Golly's rule bug?

Post by calcyman » January 28th, 2017, 2:23 pm

Saka wrote:B0 does not mean B0
Hence, we can conclude rexit != 0.
What do you do with ill crystallographers? Take them to the mono-clinic!

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