Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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PHPBB12345
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by PHPBB12345 » January 28th, 2023, 7:04 am

What's systematic name for these still lifes?

Code: Select all

x = 56, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
3b2o4b2o8b2o12b2o9bo4bo$2bobo4bobo8bo12bo8b3o4b3o$2bo8bo8bobo8bobo7bo
10bo$b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o2$b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o$bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3b
o5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo$4b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o4$3b2o4b2o8b2o12b2o9bo4bo$
2bobo4bobo8bo12bo8b3o4b3o$2bo8bo8bobo8bobo7bo10bo$b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o
8b2o2$b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o$o3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo$2o8b
2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » January 28th, 2023, 10:46 am

PHPBB12345 wrote:
January 28th, 2023, 7:04 am
What's systematic name for these still lifes?

Code: Select all

x = 56, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
3b2o4b2o8b2o12b2o9bo4bo$2bobo4bobo8bo12bo8b3o4b3o$2bo8bo8bobo8bobo7bo
10bo$b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o2$b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o$bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3b
o5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo$4b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o4$3b2o4b2o8b2o12b2o9bo4bo$
2bobo4bobo8bo12bo8b3o4b3o$2bo8bo8bobo8bobo7bo10bo$b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o
8b2o2$b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o6b4o$o3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo5bo3bo$2o8b
2o8b2o8b2o8b2o8b2o!
There are a couple of ways to find out this kind of thing. One is to use biggiemac's script to look them up on Catagolue.

That won't help you much in this case, though -- almost all of them are labeled identically, as "long_hook_and_?-eater" -- except for the second one in the second row, which is mysteriously "[[?-eater and longhook]] (xs15_03lk46z643)" and the second-to-last one in the second row, which is unlabeled (shows just "xs15_178c0fho").

To get more specific names you'll have to do the lookups in Mark Niemiec's database, where (for example) the first still life in the first row is "Down long bookend above up eater", and the last still life in the second row is "Down long bookend on down eater".

That's all very far beyond my level of interest in trying to figure out systematic ways to apply names to these kinds of things, though, so if you want to figure out the nomenclature used there -- the specific difference between "up" vs. "down" and "above" vs. "on", etc. -- then the best bet is to look up all the rest of those variants and figure it out by inspection.

ohennel
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by ohennel » January 31st, 2023, 4:32 pm

I can see that my soft had it's great time, but now it's over.
Anyway, here is a link to my page, where I will occassionally some new statistics and findings:
http://aosoftware.pl/gameoflife/

hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » January 31st, 2023, 5:03 pm

Just in case someone is wary of clicking that link: it's safe.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

mniemiec
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by mniemiec » January 31st, 2023, 5:29 pm

ohennel wrote:
January 31st, 2023, 4:32 pm
I can see that my soft had it's great time, but now it's over. ...
Even though it's no longer the state of the art, and has been superseded by apgsearch, I think that your soup-searching screen saved was the first effort ever to use idle CPU cycles to mine random soups for hidden gems - and was probably the initial inspiration for apgsearch and catagolue, and other related brute-force random search projects. I remember using some of your initial results many years ago to advantage in my early synthesis work, and I'm very grateful for it!

AlbertArmStain
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by AlbertArmStain » February 3rd, 2023, 12:46 pm

Could replicators (like the 0e0p metacell) emulate biological or chemical processes (like prions turning proteins into more prions or molecules interacting with other molecules)?

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squareroot12621
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by squareroot12621 » February 4th, 2023, 1:42 pm

Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 7×7?

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
D2.2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.6D2.7D3$D2.2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC$D
2.2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C4D
2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.CDC2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.D2CD2.5D
2.D2CD2C2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD$D2.CD2.CD
C2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCDCDC$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCD
CDC$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C
2.2C4D2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.3D2.4D2.
5D2.2DCDCD2.2DCDC2D$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.CDCDCDC$D2.2C2.2CD
2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CDCD
2C$D2.2C2.CDC2.4C2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.CD3CDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.4D2.D3CD2.D2C3D2.
7D$D2.2D2.3D2.4C2.5D2.3D2CD2.D5CD$D2.2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.D2CDC2.CDC2DC2.C2D
C2DC$D2.2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.DCD2C2.2C2D2C2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C
2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$D2.CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.2CDCDCD$D2.DC2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$D2.2C2.3D2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$D2.CD2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.DCDCD2C$D2.2C
2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC!

Code: Select all

4b8o$4b8o$4b8o$4b8o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4o8b4o$4b8o$4b8o$4b8o$4b8o![[ THEME 0 AUTOSTART GPS 8 Z 16 T 1 T 1 Z 19.027 T 2 T 2 Z 22.627 T 3 T 3 Z 26.909 T 4 T 4 Z 32 T 5 T 5 Z 38.055 T 6 T 6 Z 45.255 T 7 T 7 Z 53.817 LOOP 8 ]]

Book
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Book » February 4th, 2023, 2:00 pm

squareroot12621 wrote:
February 4th, 2023, 1:42 pm
Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 7×7?
There are more. See some examples here: Density.
Phil Bookman


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rattlesnake
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by rattlesnake » February 4th, 2023, 11:44 pm

squareroot12621 wrote:
February 4th, 2023, 1:42 pm
Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 7×7?

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
D2.2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.6D2.7D3$D2.2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC$D
2.2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C4D
2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.CDC2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.D2CD2.5D
2.D2CD2C2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD$D2.CD2.CD
C2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCDCDC$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCD
CDC$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C
2.2C4D2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.3D2.4D2.
5D2.2DCDCD2.2DCDC2D$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.CDCDCDC$D2.2C2.2CD
2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CDCD
2C$D2.2C2.CDC2.4C2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.CD3CDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.4D2.D3CD2.D2C3D2.
7D$D2.2D2.3D2.4C2.5D2.3D2CD2.D5CD$D2.2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.D2CDC2.CDC2DC2.C2D
C2DC$D2.2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.DCD2C2.2C2D2C2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C
2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$D2.CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.2CDCDCD$D2.DC2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$D2.2C2.3D2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$D2.CD2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.DCDCD2C$D2.2C
2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC!
No:

Code: Select all

x = 40, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
D2.2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.6D2.7D3$D2.2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC$D
2.2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C4D
2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.CDC2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.D2CD2.5D
2.D2CD2C2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD$D2.CD2.CD
C2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCDCDC$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.CDCD
CDC$D2.2C2.DCD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.D2CD2CD3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C
2.D2CD2C2.2C3D2C$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.D2CDCD2.CDCDCDC$D2.2D2.3D2.4D
2.5D2.5DC2.2DCDC2D$D2.2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.CD2CDC2.CDCDCDC$D2.2C2.2CD2.
C2DC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.3D2C2.2C2D2C2.2CDCD2C$
D2.2C2.CDC2.4C2.2C2DC2.C2DCDC2.CD3CDC$D2.2D2.D2C2.4D2.2CDCD2.D2C3D2.7D
$D2.2D2.3D2.4C2.3D2C2.3D2CD2.D5CD$D2.2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2C2DC2.CDC2DC2.C2D
C2DC$D2.2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.CD2CD2.2C2D2C2.2C3D2C3$D2.2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C
2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$D2.CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.2CDCDCD$D2.DC2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$D2.2C2.3D2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$D2.CD2.D2C2.
4C2.D3CD2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$D2.DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.DCDCD2C$D2.2C
2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC!
I have discovered SKOP for 115, 188, 492 and gun_ and guntrue_ for 200, 226, 339, 752, 1944, 6624.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Bullet51 » February 5th, 2023, 12:53 am

What's the smallest possible repeating population of sawteeth?
I believe that RCT15 implies that the value is at most 75. Further reductions in terms of cells, e.g. encoding the construction recipe by a blinker rather than a glider saves two more cells.
Still drifting.

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PHPBB12345
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by PHPBB12345 » February 5th, 2023, 1:36 am

Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 8×8?

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 47, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3$2C2.2CD$2C2.CDC$2D2.D2C3$2C2.DCD2.D2CD$CD2.CDC2.C2DC$DC2.CDC2.
C2DC$2C2.DCD2.D2CD3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2D2.3D2.
4D2.5D$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.3D2C2.
2C2D2C$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2C2DC2.C2DCDC$2D2.D2C2.4D2.2CDCD2.D2C3D$2D2.3D2.
4C2.3D2C2.3D2CD$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2C2DC2.CDC2DC$2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.CD2CD2.2C
2D2C3$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C2DC
DC2.2CDCDCD$DC2.D2C2.4C2.DCDCD2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4D2.2CD2C2.2CD
2CD2.3CD3C$CD2.D2C2.4C2.DCDCD2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.C3DC2.C
2DCDC2.DCDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.
2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.C2DC2DC2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.7C2.2C
D2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.6D2.7D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD
2C2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.CD3CDC2.2CD2CD2C$2D2.3D2.
4D2.5D2.6D2.7D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.CD3CDC2.2CD2CD2C$2C
2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 5th, 2023, 11:40 am

Bullet51 wrote:
February 5th, 2023, 12:53 am
What's the smallest possible repeating population of sawteeth?
I believe that RCT15 implies that the value is at most 75. Further reductions in terms of cells, e.g. encoding the construction recipe by a blinker rather than a glider saves two more cells.
RCT15 seems to imply a minpop of 61 (see second to last paragraph). It seems vaguely possible that a minpop of 50 or less could be engineered somehow, but it would be a nontrivial redesign. It wouldn't even be an RCT15 any more, necessarily -- it could be an RCT[N] for any N-glider recipe that would crash to produce the absolute lowest-population active pattern that created an RCT-type distance-decoder.

And speaking of non-trivial redesigns...
Unless there's something clever that I'm not thinking of, an RCT sawtooth would be a much much more difficult design to complete than a standard RCT15, or even an RCT spaceship or RCT oscillator.

You can make an RCT build a copy of its startup gliders N cells diagonally further away than their initial locations. That will give one full cycle and part of a second, with very sawtooth-looking behavior.

But a parsec-plus-N inevitably encodes a different recipe from the original parsec. Maybe you could pick some N for which you could somehow get a full second cycle, but then the same problem would come up for the third cycle with parsec-plus-2N.

I think that to get a working sawtooth, you'd have to design something completely different from the DBCA/pseudo-BSRD/ECCA mechanism in current RCTs. You'd need a true BSRD storage device, plus some kind of computer that can do some highly non-trivial calculations. For example, it might count the number of trailing "1" bits at the end of the recipe, append another bit to that, and then send out crabstretchers to drop glider seeds at the three corners of the new RCT sawtooth, that would encode that larger recipe with the additional bit.

Technically you'd probably need the usual doubled-recipe design, where the RCT sends one copy of the construction bits to build the computer and BSRD, and then another copy to populate the BSRD -- and then the computer would have to add one more bit on the end and then calculate where to put the glider seeds to encode two copies of that longer bitstream.

... Is there an easier option for an RCT sawtooth that I'm forgetting about?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by yujh » February 5th, 2023, 12:07 pm

Better (5,7):

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 7, rule = LifeHistory
2ED2E$DEDED$E3DE$5E$5D$2ED2E$2ED2E!
Better (6,8):

Code: Select all

x = 6, y = 8, rule = LifeHistory
D2ED2E$EDED2E$EDE3D$D2ED2E$4D2E$D2E3D$E2D3E$2E3DE!
Better (7,8):

Code: Select all

x = 7, y = 8, rule = LifeHistory
2ED2EDE$2EDED2E$3DE3D$2EDED2E$2EDED2E$3DE3D$2EDED2E$ED2ED2E!
Some solutions, should be optimal, but please check again:

Code: Select all

x = 47, y = 223, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3$2C2.2CD$2C2.CDC$2D2.D2C3$2C2.DCD2.D2CD$CD2.CDC2.C2DC$DC2.CDC2.
C2DC$2C2.DCD2.D2CD3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2D2.3D2.
4D2.5D$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.3D2C2.
2C2D2C$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2C2DC2.C2DCDC$2D2.D2C2.4D2.2CDCD2.D2C3D$2D2.3D2.
4C2.3D2C2.3D2CD$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2C2DC2.CDC2DC$2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.CD2CD2.2C
2D2C3$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2ED2E2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.DEDED2.C2D
CDC2.2CDCDCD$DC2.D2C2.4C2.E3DE2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4D2.5E2.2CD2CD
2.3CD3C$CD2.D2C2.4C2.5D2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.2ED2E2.C2DCDC
2.DCDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2ED2E2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C
2.D2ED2E2.2ED2EDE2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.EDED2E2.2EDED2E2.2C
D2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.EDE3D2.3DE3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2ED2E
2.2EDED2E2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.4D2E2.2EDED2E2.2CD2CD2C$2D
2.3D2.4D2.5D2.D2E3D2.3DE3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.E2D3E2.2EDED2E2.
2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2E3DE2.ED2ED2E2.2CD2CD2C3$2C2.D2C2.2CD
C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD2C2D$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.DCDCD2.D2CD2C2.2CDC2DC$2D2.
2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.6D2.3DCD2C$2C2.3D2.D3C2.5C2.D5C2.4CDCD$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.
5D2.C4DC2.C5DC$2D2.2CD2.3CD2.5C2.2CD2CD2.D6C$2C2.3D2.4D2.C3DC2.DCDC2D
2.7D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.C2DCDC2.CD2CD2C$2D2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C2D
2C2.2CDCD2C3$2C2.D2C2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CD2CDC$DC2.CDC2.CD2C2.DCD
CD2.2CDCDC2.DCDCD2C$CD2.2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.3DCDC2.C2DC3D$2C2.3D2.D3C2.5C
2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$2D2.2CD2.C2DC2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.2C2D2.2CD2C
2.3DCDC2.2CDCDCD$2C2.D2C2.4D2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.3D2.4C2.5D2.
CDC3D2.3DC2DC$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCDCD$2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.2C
D2C2.D2CD2C2.CD2CD2C3$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.DC2D2C2.2CD2CDC$2C2.CDC2.
2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.2CDCD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.
2CDC2.2CD2C2.3DC2D2.2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CDCDC2.2CDCD2C$2D
2.CDC2.4D2.5D2.CDCD2C2.3DC3D$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2DC3D2.2CDCD2C$2C
2.3D2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.DCD3C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC2DC2.3DC3D$2C2.
CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDCDCD2.2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD2C
DC3$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.CD2CD2C$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.DCD2C2.DCDCD
C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.C4D2.C2DCDC2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.5C2.3CDCD2.
4CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.4DC2.3DC2D2.C3DCDC$2D2.DCD2.4D2.2CDCD2.2CDCDC2.D
2CDC2D$2C2.C2D2.D3C2.DCD2C2.CDCD2C2.2DCD2CD$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.C4D2.2DC3D
2.CDC3DC$2D2.3D2.3CD2.5C2.DCD3C2.2CD4C$2C2.2CD2.4D2.4DC2.CDC2DC2.3DC
3D$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CDCD2.CDCDCD2.2CDCD2C$2D2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C
2.CD2CD2C3$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.CD2CD2C$DC2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.
DCDC2D2.2CDCD2C$CD2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.C3DCD2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.4C2.5C2.4CDC2.
3CD3C$DC2.2CD2.C2DC2.C3DC2.4D2C2.C2DC2DC$CD2.CDC2.D2CD2.DCDCD2.3C3D2.
DCDCDCD$2C2.2DC2.4D2.2CD2C2.C2D3C2.2CDCD2C$DC2.DCD2.D2CD2.DCDCD2.D2C
2DC2.DCDCDCD$CD2.D2C2.C2DC2.C3DC2.4DCD2.C2DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4C2.5C2.D2CD
2C2.3CD3C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC3D$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.
2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.D2C2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.
D2CD2C2.CD2CD2C$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D
2.CDC3D2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2C
D2C2.4D2C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.CDC2.4D2.5D2.D2C3D2.3DC3D$2C2.D2C2.2CDC2.2CD2C
2.C2D3C2.2CDCD2C$2C2.3D2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.3C2DC2.2CDCD2C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D
2.3D2CD2.3DC3D$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C4D2.2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD
2C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.3DCDC2.3DC3D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C
2.2CDCDC2.2CDCD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.CD2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.2CD
C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CD2CDC$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CDCDC2.2CDCD2C$2D2.D
2C2.4D2.5D2.3DCDC2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.CD2C2.5C2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$2C2.D2C2.2CD
C2.C3DC2.DC4D2.C2DC2DC$2D2.CDC2.4D2.DCDCD2.C2D2CD2.DCDCDCD$2C2.2CD2.
3CD2.2CD2C2.3C2DC2.2CDCD2C$2C2.3D2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.3D3C2.C2DCDCD$2D2.2CD
2.D3C2.C3DC2.3C3D2.DCDC2DC$2C2.CDC2.4D2.5C2.C2D3C2.2DCD3C$2C2.D2C2.CD
2C2.5D2.DC3DC2.CDC4D$2D2.3D2.2CDC2.5C2.2CD2CD2.2CD4C$2C2.D2C2.4D2.C3D
C2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.C2DCDC2.2CDCDCD$2D2.2CD2.CD2C
2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC$DC2.
2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC2.2CDCD2C$CD2.3D2.4D2.5D2.DCDC2D2.3DC3D$2C2.
2CD2.D3C2.5C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD2C$DC2.2CD2.C2DC2.C3DC2.DC3DC2.2CDCD2C$CD
2.3D2.3CD2.DCDCD2.C2D3C2.3DC3D$2C2.2CD2.4D2.2CD2C2.3C3D2.3CD3C$2D2.2C
D2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.3D3C2.C2DC2DC$2C2.3D2.CD2C2.C3DC2.3C2DC2.DCDCDCD$2C2.
2CD2.4D2.2CD2C2.C2D2CD2.2CDCD2C$2D2.CDC2.D3C2.DCDCD2.D2C3D2.DCDCDCD$
2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.C3DC2.3DCDC2.C2DC2DC$2C2.3D2.3CD2.5C2.D2CD2C2.3CD3C$2D
2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC3D$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCD2C$2C
2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2C
D2CDC$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.DCDCDC2.DCDCD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.C2DCDC2.C2D
C3D$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.4CD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.DC4D2.5D
2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.C2D2CD2.4C3D$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.3C2DC2.C2DCD2C$
2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.3D3C2.DCDCD2C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.3C3D2.2CDC3D$2C2.
3D2.4C2.2CD2C2.C2D3C2.DCDCD2C$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.D2C2DC2.C2DCD2C$
2D2.CDC2.4D2.5D2.3D2CD2.4C3D$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDC3D2.5D2C$2C2.3D
2.4C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.4CD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.3DCDC2.C2DC3D$2C2.CDC2.4C
2.2CD2C2.2CDCDC2.DCDCD2C$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.D
2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CD2CDC$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.DCDCDC2.2CDCD
2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.C2DCDC2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.5C2.3CDCD2.3CD3C$2C
2.2CD2.CD2C2.5D2.3DC2D2.C2DC2DC$2D2.CDC2.4D2.5C2.2CDCDC2.DCDCDCD$2C2.
D2C2.CD2C2.C3DC2.CDCD2C2.2CDCD2C$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.2DC3D2.DCDCDCD$
2D2.D2C2.4D2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.C2DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.3CD2.DC2DC2.C3D2C2.2CD4C
$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.C2DCD2.3C3D2.DC5D$2D2.3D2.D3C2.2CD2C2.3D3C2.C2D4C$2C
2.2CD2.4D2.DCDCD2.3C2DC2.4C2DC$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.C3DC2.C3DCD2.5DCD$2D2.
3D2.2CDC2.5C2.D2CD2C2.4CD2C$2C2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.2DCDCD2.C2DC3D$2C2.CDC2.
2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.DCDCD2C$2D2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC3$
2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.CD2CD2C$CD2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CD
CD2C$DC2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC3D$2C2.3D2.4C2.5C2.D2CD2C2.3CD3C$2D2.
D2C2.C2DC2.C3DC2.4D2C2.C2DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.4D2.DCDCD2.D2C3D2.DCDCDCD$2C
2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.C2D3C2.2CDCD2C$2D2.3D2.4C2.DCDCD2.3C2DC2.C2DCDCD$
2C2.2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.3DC2D2.DCDCDCD$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD2C
$2D2.D2C2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.2C3DC2.DCDC2DC$2C2.3D2.D2CD2.DC2DC2.3D3C2.C2DC
DCD$2C2.D2C2.4D2.2CD2C2.3C3D2.2CDCD2C$2D2.CDC2.D2CD2.DCDCD2.C2D3C2.DC
DCDCD$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.C3DC2.DC3DC2.C2DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4C2.5C2.2CD2CD2.3CD
3C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.DCDC2D2.3DC3D$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC2.2CDCD2C
$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » February 5th, 2023, 4:25 pm

Bullet51 wrote:
February 5th, 2023, 12:53 am
What's the smallest possible repeating population of sawteeth?
I believe that RCT15 implies that the value is at most 75. Further reductions in terms of cells, e.g. encoding the construction recipe by a blinker rather than a glider saves two more cells.
54 cells:

Code: Select all

x = 7078, y = 6901, rule = B3/S23
70b3o$81bo2$82b2o$84bo$85b2o$86b2o$85b2o$87bo3378$3604bo$3604bo$3604bo
3417$273bo$270b3o$269bobo$268bo$269b2o10$266bo$266bo$266bo10$7057bo$
7057b4o$7057bo3bo2$7059b3o9$7077bo$7077bo$7077bo47$16bo$15bo$14b2o$12b
o2bo$12bobo$13bo2$3o!
The pi was the first thing that worked, but any alternative needs to start with a 1 bit.
dvgrn wrote:
February 5th, 2023, 11:40 am
... Is there an easier option for an RCT sawtooth that I'm forgetting about?
One way to do this would be to modify the Corderabsorbers to include seeds for the four (switch engine plus blinker) patterns, then end the synthesis by constructing a gun, whose first glider bounces off some one-time turners, revealing an eater which eats all the other gliders. That glider would then go back, destroy the gun, return to destroy the eater, leaving a blinker further out, then bounce back to trigger the Corderfleets.
Alternatively, the first glider could create a Cordership which eats all the gun gliders, then destroys the gun and sends out the Corderfleets.

EDIT: Using better predecessors, we can get 51 cells:

Code: Select all

x = 7078, y = 6901, rule = B3/S23
70b3o2$82bo$83b2o2$84bobo$86b2o$85b2o$87bo3378$3604bo$3604bo$3604bo
3418$270b4o$269bo$269bo$267b2o10$266bo$266bo$266bo10$7057bo$7057b4o$
7057bo3bo2$7059b3o9$7077bo$7077bo$7077bo47$15bo$15bo$15bo$15bo$13b2o$
12bo$12bo$3o!
However, I don't know if we can synthesize it. I assume we can, but the northwest predecessor might be trouble (the version in the 54-cell RCT comes from the 3G synthesis). If there is a way to make the octaplet predecessor, that should get us 52.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 5th, 2023, 5:45 pm

toroidalet wrote:
February 5th, 2023, 4:25 pm
One way to do this would be to modify the Corderabsorbers to include seeds for the four (switch engine plus blinker) patterns, then end the synthesis by constructing a gun, whose first glider bounces off some one-time turners, revealing an eater which eats all the other gliders. That glider would then go back, destroy the gun, return to destroy the eater, leaving a blinker further out, then bounce back to trigger the Corderfleets.
Alternatively, the first glider could create a Cordership which eats all the gun gliders, then destroys the gun and sends out the Corderfleets.
This sounds more like the design for an RCT spaceship or RCT oscillator -- i.e., a Corderabsorber that included seeds for the switch-engines-plus-blinkers would necessarily be right near the original locations where those objects were constructed the first time around.

To produce a sawtooth -- ever larger maximum populations while returning to the original population every now and then -- it seems to me that those seeds have to be built two parsecs out from the epicentre, then four parsecs, etc. (relative to the original one-parsec epicentre-to-corner distance). That is to say, in practice we will actually have to add at least one bit to the RCT recipe each time around, or we won't really have a sawtooth.

Am I missing some better idea here?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » February 5th, 2023, 5:56 pm

Each time, the target blinker would be moved further out. This means that the gun would begin to release more and more gliders before its destruction:

Code: Select all

x = 212, y = 101, rule = B3/S23
180bo30bo$179bobo29bo$179b2o30bo3$207b2o$207bo$205bobo$205b2o5$199b2o$
199bobo$200bo35$25bo30bo$24bobo29bo$24b2o30bo3$52b2o$52bo$50bobo$50b2o
5$44b2o$44bobo$45bo3$22b2o103b2o$22b2o103b2o3$19b2o103b2o$19b2o103b2o
2$22b2o103b2o$22b2o44bo58b2o$69bo$61b10o$69bo$68bo4$21bobo102bobo$23bo
104bo$19bobo102bobo$19bo104bo$18bobo102bobo$18b2o103b2o$17bo104bo$18b
2o103b2o$2b2o7b2o6bo87b2o7b2o6bo$3bo7b2o95bo7b2o$3o102b3o$o13b2o89bo
13b2o$14b2o103b2o3$11b2o103b2o$11b2o103b2o!
Because all the gliders from the gun would be eaten (whether by a Cordership or an eater) before the Corderfleets were set off, the population would eventually drop to 54 or 51. This is why the first glider has to make 2 trips (if a Cordership is not used)—if it only made one, it would trigger the Corderfleets around the same time as it destroyed the gun, and so once the blinker moved very far out (3 times as far as the switch engines), gliders would survive and it would not reach a fixed minimum population anymore.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by pipsqueek » February 5th, 2023, 8:15 pm

what is SKOP1000000?

Code: Select all

x=17,y=16,rule=B3/S23
3bo3bobo2bob2o$bobo4bo4b4o$bobo5bobo2b3o$b2obob2o3b2o$3o4b2ob2o2b2o$4b
o4bo$4b2obobob2ob3o$3ob3o2b2o$b3o2bobobo5bo$o3b2o3bobo2b2o$4bo3bob2o3b
o$2obo2bobobo2b2o$3b3o5bo2b2o$2obo4bo2bob2o$o3bob2obo3b2o$2bo8bobobo![[ STOP 3 GPS 4 ]]

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 5th, 2023, 11:25 pm

toroidalet wrote:
February 5th, 2023, 5:56 pm
Each time, the target blinker would be moved further out. This means that the gun would begin to release more and more gliders before its destruction...
I haven't figured out yet what the demonstration pattern demonstrates. I guess my question is, how exactly would the target blinker be moved the exact correct distance farther out, so that the RCT mechanism would still produce the same sequence of bits on the next run (plus maybe one bit more than last time)?

Or, why would it not be a big problem that the new blinker distance would encode an incorrect bit sequence?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » February 6th, 2023, 12:31 am

I'm sorry for the confusion. The switch engines produce the same bits each time. The blinker in the example pattern is the same blinker as the one in the sample RCTs near the epicentre which gets turned into a pond, a block and then a pi. The RCT turns that into an eater and turners near (a constant distance from) the former blinker and a gun near the epicentre.
Then, the first glider from the gun bounces off the turners (the boats), revealing the eater. That glider heads back, destroying the gun and sending more gliders back to turn the eater into a blinker on the same diagonal as the original blinker but further away (it could be in the same place or even closer if the RCT moves). This sends more gliders back, which trigger the corderfleets and turn it into the same 51-cell RCT, which repeats the exact same cycle.
This is a sawtooth because more gliders are produced the further the blinker gets from the epicentre.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by PHPBB12345 » February 6th, 2023, 4:31 am

Next level: Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 11×11?

Code: Select all

x = 83, y = 83, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3$2C2.2CD$2C2.CDC$2D2.D2C3$2C2.DCD2.D2CD$CD2.CDC2.C2DC$DC2.CDC2.
C2DC$2C2.DCD2.D2CD3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D
2.5D$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C
2D2C$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.D2C3D$2C2.3D2.4C2.2C
D2C2.3D2CD$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC$2D2.D2C2.D2CD2.5D2.2C2D2C3$2C
2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.C2DCDC2.2CD
CDCD$DC2.D2C2.4C2.C3DC2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4D2.5C2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$
CD2.D2C2.4C2.5D2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC2.DCDCD2C
$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.
2CD2CDC2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2D2.
3D2.4D2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2C
D2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.4D2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.
D2C3D2.3DC3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.C2D3C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2C
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2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.DCDCD2.D2CD2C2.2CD2CDC2.
DCD2CDCD2.2CDCDCD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.6D2.7D2.C6DC2.3DCDC3D$2C2.3D2.
D3C2.5C2.D5C2.6CD2.8C2.4CD4C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.5D2.C4DC2.C5DC2.8D2.C7DC$
2D2.2CD2.3CD2.5C2.5CD2.D6C2.8C2.D7CD$2C2.3D2.4D2.C3DC2.6D2.7D2.C6DC2.
9D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.2CD2CD2.CD2CD2C2.DCD2CDCD2.CD2CD2CDC$2D2.2CD
2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CD2CD2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CDCDCD2C3$2C2.D2C2.2CDC2.2C
D2C2.2CD2CD2.2CD2CDC2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD2C2D2C2.CD2CD2CD2C$DC2.CDC2.CD2C2.
DCDCD2.2CDCDC2.DCDCD2C2.DCD2CDCD2.2CDCDC2DC2.2CD2CDCD2C$CD2.2CD2.4D2.
C3DC2.3DCDC2.C2DC3D2.C6DC2.3DCDCDCD2.6DC3D$2C2.3D2.D3C2.5C2.2CD2CD2.3C
D3C2.8C2.2CDCDCD2C2.2CD3CD3C$2D2.2CD2.C2DC2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC2DC2.8D2.2C
DCDC3D2.DCDC2DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.2C2D2.2CD2C2.3DCDC2.2CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2C2.3D
CDCD2C2.C2DC2DCDCD$2C2.D2C2.4D2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.3CD3CD2C$2D2.3D2.4C2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC2DC2.8D2.DCDCDC3D2.3DC6D$2C
2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2C2.C2DCDCD2C2.2CDCD2CD2C$
2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.CD2CD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2C2D2CD2C2.2CD2CD2CD
C3$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.DC2D2C2.2CD2CDC2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC2.2CDCD2C
D2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.CD3CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3DC3D2.8D2.3D
CDC3D2.6DCDCD2.11D$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.3DC2D2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.D6CD2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CDCDC2.2CDCD2C2.2C
D2CD2C2.2CDCDCD2C2.C9D2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.CDC2.4D2.5D2.CDCD2C2.3DC3D2.8D
2.3DCDC3D2.10C2.11D$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2DC3D2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2C
DCDCD2C2.9DC2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.DCD3C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD
2C2.2CDCDCD2C2.2CD6CD2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC2DC2.3DC3D2.8D
2.3DCDC3D2.DCDC6D2.11D$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDCDCD2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C
2.2CDCDCD2C2.DCDCD3CDC2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD
2CDC2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC2.2CD2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C!

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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » February 6th, 2023, 8:35 am

toroidalet wrote:
February 6th, 2023, 12:31 am
The blinker in the example pattern is the same blinker as the one in the sample RCTs near the epicentre which gets turned into a pond, a block and then a pi. The RCT turns that into an eater and turners near (a constant distance from) the former blinker and a gun near the epicentre.
Ah, got it. That makes much more sense than what I was thinking.

I'm sure it exists somewhere, but offhand I can't find a referent for "the same blinker as the one in the sample RCTs near the epicentre which gets turned into a pond, a block and then a pi". A link to these "sample RCTs" would be helpful, just because I'm not clear on whether this blinker something that exists in all RCT designs, or only in RCT15 or RCT16, or some such confusion.
toroidalet wrote:
February 6th, 2023, 12:31 am
This is a sawtooth because more gliders are produced the further the blinker gets from the epicentre.
It seems possible that this is a solvable problem, or maybe just not a problem at all, but the other question that I'm not sure about yet is how exactly to set things up so that the exact same bit sequence will successfully build things out near the blinker and also near the epicentre. Wouldn't you need a second target object near the epicentre in your original example pattern, to provide a target to build your fixed-location glider gun along with the DBCA, ECCA and all of the other epicentral stuff?

Eventually your blinker will start out a parsec away or more, so it can't be used to help with making a target at the epicentre. In fact, won't the pattern only start to become a sawtooth when the blinker is hundreds of parsecs away? The contribution of the gun glider cells will get swamped by GPSE ash cells until then.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by toroidalet » February 6th, 2023, 6:43 pm

dvgrn wrote:
February 6th, 2023, 8:35 am
It seems possible that this is a solvable problem, or maybe just not a problem at all, but the other question that I'm not sure about yet is how exactly to set things up so that the exact same bit sequence will successfully build things out near the blinker and also near the epicentre. Wouldn't you need a second target object near the epicentre in your original example pattern, to provide a target to build your fixed-location glider gun along with the DBCA, ECCA and all of the other epicentral stuff?

Eventually your blinker will start out a parsec away or more, so it can't be used to help with making a target at the epicentre. In fact, won't the pattern only start to become a sawtooth when the blinker is hundreds of parsecs away? The contribution of the gun glider cells will get swamped by GPSE ash cells until then.
Here is a revised blueprint which should solve this problem:

Code: Select all

x = 7035, y = 6975, rule = B3/S23
7034bo$7034bo$7034bo112$3o2$12bo$13b2o2$14bobo$16b2o$15b2o$17bo6768$
221bo$221bo$221bo$221bo$219b2o$218bo$218bo15$207b3o32$9bo$9bo$9bo6977b
o$9bo6977b4o$7b2o6978bo3bo$6bo$6bo6982b3o9$7007bo$7007bo$7007bo14$b3o!
The target blinker is now at least a parsec away so that the return gliders won't arrive until after the crash{a}, which only sends northeast gliders which can be blocked somehow. This is important because the epicentre now has stable ash which we can use. While the DBCA will be constructed near the blinker, it will send southwest gliders all the way back to the epicentre to build the ECCA{b}. Then, it will activate the pseudo-BSRD, which will send the bits back to the ECCA{c}. The ECCA will then destroy the DBCA, turning it into an eater and some turners, then construct the Corderfleets, Corderabsorbers (with seeds for the small GPSE predecessors) and the gun.

An alternative idea would be to keep the ECCA near the DBCA, but this means the Corderabsorbers have to be constructed entirely with slow^2 gliders, which is not worth the decrease from not having to build a pseudo-BSRD.

{a}: The first gliders from the GPSEs travel a parsec before becoming binary slow salvo gliders, which travel at least another parsec out to the blinker, than at least a third parsec back, so they have traveled at least 3 parsecs, so the switch engines should have traveled at least 1, meaning they crashed into each other.
{b}: They will hit the ash from the GPSEs and the collision (and possibly the NE gliders from the collision) and turn it into the ECCA.
{c}: This raises the possibility of an optimization where the ECCA is not built with self-destruct circuitry and the pseudo-BSRD deactivates itself after receiving n gliders, reactivating the DBCA which then shoots out gliders that eventually destroy the ECCA. Since we probably won't ever build a Sawtooth 51, this is purely a theoretical exercise.

EDIT: To clarify, the 54-cell version is definitely constructible, while the 51-cell might not be. We would need to synthesize these switch engine predecessors to show that a 51-cell sawtooth exists:

Code: Select all

x = 52, y = 11, rule = B3/S23
2$2bo$3b2o39b4o$43bo$4bobo36bo$6b2o33b2o$5b2o$7bo!
Any sufficiently advanced software is indistinguishable from malice.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Chai » February 6th, 2023, 8:40 pm

Do search programs exist for single-channel recipes in other cellular automata?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by rattlesnake » February 6th, 2023, 10:47 pm

PHPBB12345 wrote:
February 6th, 2023, 4:31 am
Next level: Are these the maximally dense still lives for every bounding box up to 11×11?

Code: Select all

x = 83, y = 83, rule = LifeHistory
2C$2C3$2C2.2CD$2C2.CDC$2D2.D2C3$2C2.DCD2.D2CD$CD2.CDC2.C2DC$DC2.CDC2.
C2DC$2C2.DCD2.D2CD3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D
2.5D$2C2.2CD2.4C2.2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C3$2C2.2CD2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.2C
2D2C$2C2.CDC2.4C2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.D2C3D$2C2.3D2.4C2.2C
D2C2.3D2CD$2C2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC$2D2.D2C2.D2CD2.5D2.2C2D2C3$2C
2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.CD2CD2C$CD2.CDC2.C2DC2.DCDCD2.C2DCDC2.2CD
CDCD$DC2.D2C2.4C2.C3DC2.DCDC2D2.3DC2DC$2C2.3D2.4D2.5C2.2CD2CD2.3CD3C$
CD2.D2C2.4C2.5D2.DCDC2D2.C2DC3D$DC2.CDC2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.C2DCDC2.DCDCD2C
$2C2.2CD2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.2C2D2C2.2CD2CDC3$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.
2CD2CDC2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2D2.
3D2.4D2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2C
D2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.4D2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2D2.3D2.4D2.5D2.
D2C3D2.3DC3D2.8D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.C2D3C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C$2C2.2C
D2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2C3DC2.CD2CD2C2.2CD2CD2C3$2C2.D2C2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C
2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC$2C2.CDC2.CD2C2.DCDCD2.D2CD2C2.2CD2CDC2.
DCD2CDCD2.2CDCDCD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.C3DC2.6D2.7D2.C6DC2.3DCDC3D$2C2.3D2.
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2D2.2CD2.3CD2.5C2.5CD2.D6C2.8C2.D7CD$2C2.3D2.4D2.C3DC2.6D2.7D2.C6DC2.
9D$2C2.2CD2.2CDC2.DCDCD2.2CD2CD2.CD2CD2C2.DCD2CDCD2.CD2CD2CDC$2D2.2CD
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DCDCD2.2CDCDC2.DCDCD2C2.DCD2CDCD2.2CDCDC2DC2.2CD2CDCD2C$CD2.2CD2.4D2.
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D3C2.8C2.2CDCDCD2C2.2CD3CD3C$2D2.2CD2.C2DC2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC2DC2.8D2.2C
DCDC3D2.DCDC2DC2DC$2C2.CDC2.2C2D2.2CD2C2.3DCDC2.2CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2C2.3D
CDCD2C2.C2DC2DCDCD$2C2.D2C2.4D2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.3CD3CD2C$2D2.3D2.4C2.5D2.CDC3D2.3DC2DC2.8D2.DCDCDC3D2.3DC6D$2C
2.D2C2.C2DC2.2CD2C2.CDCD2C2.2CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2C2.C2DCDCD2C2.2CDCD2CD2C$
2C2.D2C2.D2CD2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.CD2CD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2C2D2CD2C2.2CD2CD2CD
C3$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.DC2D2C2.2CD2CDC2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC2.2CDCD2C
D2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDC2DC2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.CD3CDCDCD2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.2CD2.4D2.5D2.2CD2CD2.3DC3D2.8D2.3D
CDC3D2.6DCDCD2.11D$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.3DC2D2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2CD
CDCD2C2.D6CD2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2CDCDC2.2CDCD2C2.2C
D2CD2C2.2CDCDCD2C2.C9D2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.CDC2.4D2.5D2.CDCD2C2.3DC3D2.8D
2.3DCDC3D2.10C2.11D$2C2.D2C2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.2DC3D2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C2.2C
DCDCD2C2.9DC2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.3D2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.DCD3C2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD
2C2.2CDCDCD2C2.2CD6CD2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2D2.D2C2.4D2.5D2.CDC2DC2.3DC3D2.8D
2.3DCDC3D2.DCDC6D2.11D$2C2.CDC2.2CDC2.2CD2C2.CDCDCD2.2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2C
2.2CDCDCD2C2.DCDCD3CDC2.2CD2CD2CD2C$2C2.2CD2.CD2C2.2CD2C2.D2CD2C2.2CD
2CDC2.2CD2CD2C2.CD2CD2CDC2.2CD2CDCD2C2.2CD2CD2CD2C!
I think so.
Last edited by rattlesnake on February 6th, 2023, 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have discovered SKOP for 115, 188, 492 and gun_ and guntrue_ for 200, 226, 339, 752, 1944, 6624.

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