Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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b-engine
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by b-engine » April 11th, 2024, 11:02 am

I'm able to find a self-complementary anti-totalistic rule 46789:

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 55, rule = B35678/S4678
bo3bobobobobobob2o2b2o2bo2bo2bo2b2o2b2obobobobobobo3bo$2ob2obobobobob
obo2b2o2b2ob2ob2ob2o2b2o2bobobobobobob2ob2o$2b53o$b55o$b55o$ob53obo$b
55o$ob53obo$b55o$ob53obo$b11ob3obobobobobobobobobobobobob3ob11o$ob9o2b
o2bobobobobobobobobobobobobo2bo2b9obo$b12o31b12o$ob10o33b10obo$b11o33b
11o$ob9obo31bob9obo$b11o33b11o$b10obo31bob10o$ob10o33b10obo$ob9obo31b
ob9obo$b11o33b11o$b10obo31bob10o$ob10o33b10obo$ob9obo31bob9obo$b11o33b
11o$ob9obo31bob9obo$ob10o33b10obo$b10obo31bob10o$ob10o33b10obo$ob9obo
31bob9obo$b11o33b11o$ob9obo31bob9obo$ob10o33b10obo$b10obo31bob10o$b11o
33b11o$ob9obo31bob9obo$ob10o33b10obo$b10obo31bob10o$b11o33b11o$ob9obo
31bob9obo$b11o33b11o$ob10o33b10obo$b12o31b12o$ob9o2bo2bobobobobobobob
obobobobobo2bo2b9obo$b11ob3obobobobobobobobobobobobob3ob11o$ob53obo$b
55o$ob53obo$b55o$ob53obo$b55o$b55o$2b53o$2ob2obobobobobobo2b2o2b2ob2o
b2ob2o2b2o2bobobobobobob2ob2o$bo3bobobobobobob2o2b2o2bo2bo2bo2b2o2b2o
bobobobobobo3bo!
Patterns can escape from their initial bounding box, not sure if spaceships exists here.
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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 11th, 2024, 11:27 am

GliderDB Reader lists several known spaceships for those CA.
B35678/S4678 is OCA:Holstein.
b-engine wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 11:02 am
[...]

Code: Select all

x = 57, y = 55, rule = B35678/S4678
Patterns can escape from their initial bounding box, not sure if spaceships exists here.
confocaloid wrote:
April 11th, 2024, 10:40 am
[...]
Here are two spaceships in B34/S45, copied from GliderDB Reader:
[...]
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
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TYCF
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by TYCF » April 12th, 2024, 8:41 am

Is the candlefrobra's rotor the most common period-3 rotor?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
obobo$2ob2o$obobo!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B35/S234i8
2bo$bobo$2ob2o$5o!



hotdogPi
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » April 12th, 2024, 8:46 am

TYCF wrote:
April 12th, 2024, 8:41 am
Is the candlefrobra's rotor the most common period-3 rotor?
Pulsar by a large margin.
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered: 5-16,⑱,⑳G,㉑G,㉒㉔㉕,㉗-㉛,㉜SG,㉞㉟㊱㊳㊵㊷㊹㊺㊽㊿,54G,55G,56,57G,60,62-66,68,70,73,74S,75,76S,80,84,88,90,96
100,02S,06,08,10,12,14G,16,17G,20,26G,28,38,44,47,48,54,56,72,74,80,92,96S
217,486,576

S: SKOP
G: gun

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 12th, 2024, 8:47 am

https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/b3s23/C1/xp3 shows common p3 oscillators. While this is a different question (different oscillators often have the same rotor), the most common rotors can still be determined.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by TYCF » April 12th, 2024, 8:51 am

hotdogPi wrote:
April 12th, 2024, 8:46 am
TYCF wrote:
April 12th, 2024, 8:41 am
Is the candlefrobra's rotor the most common period-3 rotor?
Pulsar by a large margin.
Sorry, I meant the rotor which appears in the most natural period-3 oscillators.

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
obobo$2ob2o$obobo!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B35/S234i8
2bo$bobo$2ob2o$5o!



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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 13th, 2024, 11:19 am

What is known about this wick from jslife-20121230/wicks/w00137.lif (here I modified it into an oscillator in a finite bounded universe)?

Code: Select all

x = 120, y = 135, rule = B3/S23:T120,135
6b3o$18b3o$18bo2bo$19b2o4$118b2o$o116bo$o117b2o$10b3o$10bo2bo$11b2o4$
110b2o$109bo2bo$110b3o$2b3o$2bo2bo$3b2o4$102b2o$101bo2bo$102b3o$114b3o
$114bo2bo$115b2o4$94b2o$93bo2bo$94b3o$106b3o$106bo2bo$107b2o3$27b2o3b
2obo4bob2o$28bo3bob2o4b2obo42b2o$27bo8b2o6b2o39bo2bo$27b2o7bo8bo40b3o$
37bo6bo53b3o$27b2o7b2o6b2o52bo2bo$28bo3b2obo6b2o55b2o$27bo4bob2o7bo$
27b2o7b2o4bo$36bo5b2o$27b2o8bo2b2o36b2o$28bo7b2o3bo35bo2bo$27bo4b2obo
4bo37b3o$27b2o3bob2o4b2o48b3o$90bo2bo$91b2o4$70b2o$69bo2bo$70b3o$82b3o
$82bo2bo$83b2o4$62b2o$61bo2bo$62b3o$74b3o$74bo2bo$75b2o4$54b2o$53bo2bo
$54b3o$66b3o$66bo2bo$67b2o4$46b2o$45bo2bo$46b3o$58b3o$58bo2bo$59b2o4$
38b2o$37bo2bo$38b3o$50b3o$50bo2bo$51b2o4$30b2o$29bo2bo$30b3o$42b3o$42b
o2bo$43b2o4$22b2o$21bo2bo$22b3o$34b3o$34bo2bo$35b2o4$14b2o$13bo2bo$14b
3o$26b3o$26bo2bo$27b2o4$6b2o$5bo2bo!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by TYCF » April 13th, 2024, 12:26 pm

What is the smallest two-engine cordership eater?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
obobo$2ob2o$obobo!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B35/S234i8
2bo$bobo$2ob2o$5o!



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dvgrn
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 14th, 2024, 9:51 am

TYCF wrote:
April 13th, 2024, 12:26 pm
What is the smallest two-engine cordership eater?
Offhand I don't remember anything smaller than the one used in the Exploratorium (but I could easily have forgotten something):

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 62, rule = Life
32b2o$32b2o6$30bo3bobo$28b2o9b3o$27bobob2o4b2o2bo$27b4o4b4ob2o$37b3o8$
50b2o$48bobob2o$37b2o5b2obo4b2o$30b4o3b2o9b2o2bo$5b2o23b2ob2o20b2o$5b
2o17b3o2bo3b2o19b3o$30b2ob2o22bob2o4b2o$24bobo5bo24bo2bo4b2o$25bo32b2o
$58b2o5$57b2o$48b2o7b2o$34b3o10bobo$50bo$32bo3bo5bo3bo2bo$32b4o5bobo2b
o$32bo9bo3b3o$46b2o4$2b2o$3bo$3o$o5$42b2o$42b2o4$15b2o$16bo$13b3o$13bo
20b2o$34b2o!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by tommyaweosme » April 14th, 2024, 9:56 am

how many 3-glider collisions are there?
asleep :z

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by TYCF » April 14th, 2024, 10:12 am

dvgrn wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 9:51 am
Offhand I don't remember anything smaller than the one used in the Exploratorium (but I could easily have forgotten something):

Code: Select all

x = 67, y = 62, rule = Life
32b2o$32b2o6$30bo3bobo$28b2o9b3o$27bobob2o4b2o2bo$27b4o4b4ob2o$37b3o8$
50b2o$48bobob2o$37b2o5b2obo4b2o$30b4o3b2o9b2o2bo$5b2o23b2ob2o20b2o$5b
2o17b3o2bo3b2o19b3o$30b2ob2o22bob2o4b2o$24bobo5bo24bo2bo4b2o$25bo32b2o
$58b2o5$57b2o$48b2o7b2o$34b3o10bobo$50bo$32bo3bo5bo3bo2bo$32b4o5bobo2b
o$32bo9bo3b3o$46b2o4$2b2o$3bo$3o$o5$42b2o$42b2o4$15b2o$16bo$13b3o$13bo
20b2o$34b2o!
What about the smallest two-engine cordership to glider converter?

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 3, rule = B3/S23
obobo$2ob2o$obobo!

Code: Select all

x = 5, y = 4, rule = B35/S234i8
2bo$bobo$2ob2o$5o!



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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 14th, 2024, 10:13 am

tommyaweosme wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 9:56 am
how many 3-glider collisions are there?
Depends how you count.
Technically there are infinitely many different 3G collisions, because of kickbacks and other 2G collisions that produce an escaping glider.
In principle those could be systematically grouped into a finite number of families. Some of those families would include only a single 3G collision. Other families would include infinitely many collisions that are trivial variations of each other.

As far as I know, nobody knows exactly how many such families are there, for any chosen well-defined notions of equivalence/families of collisions.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 14th, 2024, 12:24 pm

confocaloid wrote:
April 14th, 2024, 10:13 am
As far as I know, nobody knows exactly how many such families are there, for any chosen well-defined notions of equivalence/families of collisions.
Yup, if somebody had done a well-defined enumeration, we'd probably have heard about it.

A number that gives the flavor of the size of the three-glider collision problem is 464,746 -- but we know that that contains some duplicates, and is missing a few valid 3G collisions (though probably not very many of the "interesting" ones).

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by eRroR_6o6 » April 15th, 2024, 3:21 pm

Is there a stable reflector with the additional property that it does not get in the way of the output lane?

Code: Select all

x = 19, y = 37, rule = B3/S23
13b3o$12b4o$11b2obobo$13bobo$15bo12$10b2o$bobo7bobo$o7b2o3b2o$o3bo2b3o
3bo$o6b4obo$o2bo7bo$3o12bobo$18bo$14bo3bo$14bo3bo$18bo$9bo5bo2bo$8b3o
5b3o2$10bo$2bobo4b2o$5bo2b3o$5bo2b3o$2bo2bo2b2obo$3b3o3b3o$10bo!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 15th, 2024, 3:31 pm

eRroR_6o6 wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 3:21 pm
Is there a stable reflector with the additional property that it does not get in the way of the output lane?
Sure, lots of them! One of the smallest color-changing ones is the Scorbie Splitter, and there's a color-preserving version that's basically a dependent syringe plus an HNE16T14 variant, that's similarly small and cheap to construct.

Unfortunately that color-preserving 90-degree reflector doesn't currently have a nice alliterative name like "Scorbie Splitter" -- it's "Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner", maybe. Possibly we could get away with a LifeWiki article for it under just "Transparent Turner" to go with "Scorbie Splitter"?

-- I didn't realize that it's almost exactly the same bounding-box size: 58x28, as opposed to 58x29 for the Scorbie Splitter.

Plain-vanilla Life version showing Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner in action:

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 42, rule = B3/S23
3bo$4bo$2b3o2$18bo$16b3o$15bo$15b2o$2o$bo$bob2o$2bo2bo$3b2o$18b2o13b2o
$18b2o13b2o21b2o$56b2o6$21b2obo29bo$21b2ob3o26bobo$27bo26bo$21b2ob3o$
22bobo16bob2o$10b2o10bobo14b3ob2o$10b2o11bo14bo$39b3ob2o5b2o$41bobo6b
o$41bobo7b3o$42bo10bo8$18b2o$17bobo$19bo!
DoubleB3S23 version showing how its timing is a different parity from the Snark:

Code: Select all

x = 58, y = 41, rule = DoubleB3S23
3.C$4.C$2.3C2$18.A$16.3A$15.A$15.2A$2A$.A$.A.2A$2.A2.A$3.2A$18.2A13.2A
$18.2A13.2A21.2A$56.2A3$32.B$30.3B$29.B$21.2A.A4.2B23.A$21.2A.3A26.A.
A$27.A26.A$21.2A.3A$22.A.A16.A.2A$10.2A10.A.A14.3A.2A$10.2A11.A14.A$19.
2B18.3A.2A5.2A$18.B.B5.2B13.A.A6.A$18.B7.2B13.A.A7.3A$17.2B23.A10.A2$
31.B$27.2B.B.B$26.B.B.B.B$23.B2.B.B.B.B.2B$23.4B.2B2.B2.B$27.B4.2B$25.
B.B$25.2B!

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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 15th, 2024, 3:32 pm

eRroR_6o6 wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 3:21 pm
Is there a stable reflector with the additional property that it does not get in the way of the output lane?
Two examples of reflectors with a transparent output glider lane are the rectifier and the following edge shooting 90-degree stable glider reflector:
Jormungant wrote:
September 4th, 2023, 2:39 pm
[...]
Well the obvious corollary is this bit, which is a reflector edge shooter (repeat time 181, same color as scorbie splitter):

Code: Select all

x = 78, y = 53, rule = LifeHistory
5$62.2A$61.B2AB$61.4B$62.2B$60.5B$59.6B$56.9B$55.11B$54.13B4.2A$14.B
39.12BAB3.A$13.3B37.12BABABA.A$13.4B33.2B.13B2A.2A$14.4B10.A21.17B$
15.4B7.3A19.19B$16.4B5.A21.20B$17.4B4.2A19.21B$10.2A6.9B17.21B$11.A7.
6B13.4B2.22B$11.A.2A5.6B3.B2.2B2.30B$12.A2.A4.19BD26B$13.2AB3.6BC13BD
BD24B$14.9BCBC2B2A9B3DB2A22B$15.9B2C2B2A11BDB2A23B.B$16.53B2A$16.17B.
B5.27B.B2A$17.15B10.B2.20B4.B$17.15B12.22B$18.13B12.24B$20.13B10.24B$
19.8B4.2A.A6.2A2B.20B$19.6B6.2AB3A3.A.AB2.17B$19.5B8.B4.A2.A9.11B$19.
B.B9.2A.3A2.2A9.11B$20.3B9.A.A16.11B$19.B2AB9.A.A16.3B.7B$20.2A11.A
18.B4.6B$57.3BA3B2.B$57.2BABA7B$57.2BABA7B$57.3BA9B$55.2AB.11B$54.A.A
B2.9B$54.A7.7B$53.2A7.6B$63.4B$62.4B$61.4B$60.4B!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » April 15th, 2024, 3:45 pm

dvgrn wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 3:31 pm
[...]
Possibly we could get away with a LifeWiki article for it under just "Transparent Turner" to go with "Scorbie Splitter"?
Which would have the exact same problem as using spiral growth or glider loop or p45 pi-heptomino hassler for an article about a specific pattern (as opposed to a general concept). All of those are problematic.

If the article is about a specific reaction or a specific pattern, then the page title should refer to that specific reaction or pattern, singling it out in any class containing it.
If the title is generic, then the article should be about a general concept or about an entire class of reactions or patterns.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 15th, 2024, 4:00 pm

confocaloid wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 3:45 pm
dvgrn wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 3:31 pm
[...]
Possibly we could get away with a LifeWiki article for it under just "Transparent Turner" to go with "Scorbie Splitter"?
Which would have the exact same problem as using spiral growth or glider loop or p45 pi-heptomino hassler for an article about a specific pattern (as opposed to a general concept).
Yeah, it's not perfect -- it would have to be a full name something like "Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner", with "Transparent Turner" as the alliterative memorable everyday-use form (which could redirect to "Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner").

However, I don't really have naming rights on the thing, myself. I'd just like it to have an easy-to-remember name that I can look up, because it's so useful to have a simple neo-Spartan merge circuit for each category (color-changing and color-preserving.)

I'm not too hopeful that enough people are going to start calling it "Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner" to merit a LifeWiki article by that name, any time soon (or any other equally good short memorable label would be fine, I'm not picky). At least until a big project gets started that will need a lot of those things, it's probably not going to come up for discussion a whole lot.

An example of a project that will be able to make good use a toolkit that includes the Scorbie Splitter and Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner -- and maybe a few more transparent-output merge circuits with different parities or mod-8 timings, if small enough ones were available -- would be a more compact modern rebuild of the "SQ" / "B2D" 2D memory array from calcyman's Osqrtlogt pattern.

EDIT: Come to think of it, though, it's not exactly the same problem as "spiral growth" or those other cases. "Scorbie Splitter" is a rare type of name with two initial capital letters; "Transparent Turner" would be another one -- a specific name for a specific pattern, distinct from the general category of "transparent turner" (which could, from LifeWiki's point of view, perfectly well have its own separate article). (EDIT: hmm, just tried it -- apparently not. A disambiguation page, then.)

Not saying that that makes any of it a good idea -- I'd much prefer it if Extrementhusiast showed up and officially gave that mechanism any old easily-remembered name -- like "Extrementhusiast's Emulsifier" or something -- and then I could make a habit of using that... Hmm, Extrementhusiast's real name might give some alternate alliterative options, like "Martin's Merge(r)" or "Grant's G-to-G".

In the meantime, I think maybe what I'll do is create an article for HNE16T14. and show the full transparent neo-Spartan merge circuit in the main text. Then maybe it will work okay to add a redirect to that article from "CP merge", and a redirect to the Scorbie Splitter from "CC merge", with cross-links from those two articles to each other. Then those two uniquely small simple cheap fast-recovering transparent-output turners will be a bit easier to find when someone is looking for them.

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Tawal
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Tawal » April 15th, 2024, 5:43 pm

I'm not sure it's a basic question.
It's more of a specific question.

Either this Edge Shooter is very interesting, but how do you connect it ?
Without increasing its repeat time too much … (edit :72 max, 64 will be better)

Code: Select all

x = 32, y = 40, rule = LifeHistory
4$16.4B$15.4B$14.4B$13.4B$12.4B$11.4B$10.4B$9.4B$8.6B7.2A$7.7B7.A$7.
9B2.BA.A$6.11B.B2A$6.9BA3B$7.7BABA2B$7.7BABA2B$9.B2.3BA3B$13.6B$14.6B
7.2A$14.6B7.A$14.5B5.BA.A$14.2BC6B.B2A$14.2B2C7B$14.B2C8B$14.11B$15.
9B$15.8B$16.3B.B$17.2B$17.4B$19.2A.A$19.2AB3A$20.B4.A$19.2A.3A$18.A2.
2A$18.2A!
As it is, it has RT34.

Thanks a lot :)
Alone we go faster … Together we go further …

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Possible uses found by Dave Green
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Currently investigating signal collisions … (stand by)

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 15th, 2024, 5:50 pm

Tawal wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 5:43 pm
Either this Edge Shooter is very interesting, but how do you connect it ?
Without increasing its repeat time too much …
You know about the connection in the RNE-19T84 article, right? That's the old traditional version, and very often it's useful -- but it does put out that awkward perpendicular glider, so for some purposes it's not actually edge-shooting any more.

More recently, just the beehive and eater have seen a lot of use, extracting glider outputs from various active reactions that aren't precisely R-pentominos. See, e.g., Hotcrystal0_reaction#Generalized_form.

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Tawal
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Tawal » April 15th, 2024, 6:29 pm

dvgrn wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 5:50 pm
Tawal wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 5:43 pm
Either this Edge Shooter is very interesting, but how do you connect it ?
Without increasing its repeat time too much …
You know about the connection in the RNE-19T84 article, right? That's the old traditional version, and very often it's useful -- but it does put out that awkward perpendicular glider, so for some purposes it's not actually edge-shooting any more.

More recently, just the beehive and eater have seen a lot of use, extracting glider outputs from various active reactions that aren't precisely R-pentominos. See, e.g., Hotcrystal0_reaction#Generalized_form.
Yes, i know about RNE-19T94.
But aren't there other connection possibilities with different placements ?

Another question : What is the fastest Stable Edge Shooter in repeat time ?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 15th, 2024, 7:58 pm

Tawal wrote:
April 15th, 2024, 6:29 pm
Another question : What is the fastest Stable Edge Shooter in repeat time ?
That's another category that could use a collection thread. It would be a fairly small collection, unless you included transparent-lane mechanisms like the Scorbie Splitter and Extrementhusiast's Transparent Turner. But there isn't a definitive labeled collection of these things where it's easy to look up things like repeat time, clearance, and number of ticks allowable for a following or leading glider.

If we wanted to be really ambitious, maybe we could record the entire second-glider domain for each edge shooter.

NW31 has repeat time 70; BNE14T30 is 120 ticks, and the Fx119 inserter is way up at 158 ticks. Of course we could easily engineer a composite edge-shooting mechanism with a lower repeat time. I'm not sure if anyone has ever held a competition to find the absolute limit for a true edge shooter -- meaning, something with a clearance at least as good as NW31, but the lowest possible repeat time.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 16th, 2024, 7:54 pm

Is there a 0-degree reflector such that no objects block it’s output lane?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » April 16th, 2024, 10:08 pm

Haycat2009 wrote:
April 16th, 2024, 7:54 pm
Is there a 0-degree reflector such that no objects block [its] output lane?
No elementary stable shifters yet with transparent output lanes, if I'm remembering right.

You didn't disallow periodic shifters, so the glider pusher technically counts, though it's not elementary either.

It's easy to cobble together a two-piece stable shifter with a transparent output lane -- e.g., pair up a syringe with an SE21T-4:

Code: Select all

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Haycat2009 » April 16th, 2024, 10:19 pm

What one-letter find should I use for finding c/8 spaceships? Only got ridiculous partials.
~ Haycat Durnak, a hard-working editor
Also, support Conway and Friends story mode!
I mean no harm to those who have tested me. But do not take this for granted.

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