Thread for basic questions

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 3rd, 2024, 3:42 am

For context, "9:43 at Knight" seems to be the name of this CA: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=861

x = 28, y = 10, rule = 237/34578/4
2A24.2A$A.A11.2A9.A.A$.2A10.A2.A8.A.A$13.4A8.A.A$25.A.A$13.4A8.A.A$
13.A2.A9.2A$14.2A$2A$2A!

Note that this would fit better in viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2238 "Thread for basic non-CGOL questions", because the question is about a CA other than CGoL.

pifricted wrote: ↑
November 3rd, 2024, 2:43 am
Are block and ship the only still lives in 9:43 at knight?

Gustone · Post by **Gustone** » November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm

Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 6th, 2024, 4:39 pm

Gustone wrote: ↑
November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm
Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip

Although this doesn't answer the asked question, I have some doubts about whether [subsets of] "patterns that have pages on lifewiki" are useful enough to try downloading them as a collection. To me at least, which patterns currently appear on the wiki seems to be a fairly arbitrary selection.

If you are interested in existing patterns, consider downloading specific collections instead, for example
jslife http://entropymine.com/jason/life/
jslife-moving https://github.com/Matthias-Merzenich/jslife-moving
Dieter and Peter's glider gun collection
and others.

Post by **dvgrn** » November 6th, 2024, 4:54 pm

Gustone wrote: ↑
November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm
Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip

You'd have to write a scraper script that looks for embedded LifeViewers that have an "rle =" parameter instead of a "pname =" parameter.

If you're interested in tackling that problem, most of the code you need is already waiting for you in lifewiki-rlescraper.py.

Pretty much all patterns that are represented by LifeWiki articles do in fact have pnames, and therefore are represented in the RLE namespace and have been included in all.zip. What specific exception(s) are you thinking about, if any, besides the embedded-LifeViewer ones?

get_Snacked · Post by **get_Snacked** » November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am

is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 7th, 2024, 1:50 am

get_Snacked wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am
is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.

Well, I don't see any immediately obvious obstacles, and since from your words it looks like there was already some nontrivial amount of brainstorming on this question happening elsewhere, it seems reasonable to ask for more details on what you have tried and what were obstacles (maybe crosspost the discussion?)

Gustone · Post by **Gustone** » November 7th, 2024, 2:23 am

dvgrn wrote: ↑
November 6th, 2024, 4:54 pm
What specific exception(s) are you thinking about

Most of the larger patterns such as engineered spaceships, their pattern files are exclusively in .mc

Post by **dvgrn** » November 7th, 2024, 9:13 am

get_Snacked wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am
is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.

Is the INT Langton's Ant an acceptable solution? If so, then that's definitely a rule that an 0E0P metacell can be programmed to emulate. It's going to be pretty inefficient, though!

If that's no good, then ... it might still be possible, but I'm not sure. The standard Langton's Ant rule table needs ten states and a von Neumann neighborhood. The 2^25-tick variant of the 0E0P metacell supports an 8-state, 4-neighborhood BCC-automaton.

There have been some experiments with emulating Langton's Ant with a smaller number of states -- the SemisoAnt rule has only six states. But that's standard von Neumann rules, not BCC rules. So I guess the question is still open for the moment!

Post by **dvgrn** » November 7th, 2024, 9:37 am

Gustone wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 2:23 am
Most of the larger patterns such as engineered spaceships, their pattern files are exclusively in .mc

Got it. If I remember right, we decided not to include .mc files in all.zip because it would really explode the file size... yup:

In an email, Nathaniel wrote:all.zip only collects .cells and .rle files (just to prevent its size from ballooning out of control).

Vort · Post by **Vort** » November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm

I needed color-changing 90° reflector for my gun_5477.
Bandersnatch + Snark solution was too bulky, so I remembered seeing an alternative during Turing machine optimizations.
I took device from there, it fit well, but I realized that I don't know its name.
I checked wiki and Catagolue and found nothing.
Probably I was not paying enough attention during searches, don't know.
Can anyone say how is it named and if should there be wiki article about it?
Also what methods are available for figuring out object's history besides asking question here on forum?

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory
20.A$20.3A$23.A$22.2A$13.2A7.4B$12.A2.A8.B2A$12.3A.A6.BA.A$15.A.B5.B
2A$12.2A.4B3.4B$.C10.A.5B.4B$2BC6.2A.A2.11B$3CB5.2A.2A.11B$.4B9.11B2A
$2.4B8.11B2A$3.4B7.10B.B$4.4B6.10B$5.4B4.10B$6.4B3.11B$7.4B.11B$8.15B
$9.10B.2B$9.10B$8.12B$7.14B$6.4B.12B9.2A$5.4B2.13B8.A$4.4B3.14B4.2A.A
$3.4B6.4B2A7B3.A.A.2A.A$2.4B7.3BA2BA7B3.B2.A.2A$.4B7.4BA2BA7B2.3B.A$
4B8.5B2A11B2A.A$3B10.17BA.A$2B10.17B.BA$B11.17B$11.16B$11.16B$9.2A15B
$4.2A2.A2BA4.10B$.A2.A3.BABA4.10B$A.A.A.4BA6.5B2.B$.A2.A.2AB8.3B$4.A.
BAB6.4B$5.A4.A2.A.2A$6.8AB2A$15.B$8.2A2.2A.2A$8.2A3.A.A$13.A.A$14.A!

Code: Select all

x = 113, y = 110, rule = LifeHistory
84.2A$85.A$84.A$81.A2.4A$81.3A4.A$84.A.BA.A$83.A.2B2AB$83.2A.3B$87.4B
$87.4B$62.2A5.2A14.8B$61.BA.AB.2B2AB12.12B$61.2B2AB.4B12.14B$59.2AB.
10B.B7.14B$58.A.AB3.12B4.15B$58.A7.12B3.16B$57.2A7.12B2.17B$67.10B2.
6B2A11B$65.19BA2BA11B$64.20BA2BA11B$63.A.20B2A9B2.B2A.A$62.A.A29B4.B
2AB3A$61.A.A2.B2.25B6.B4.A$22.2A11.A25.A.A.A2.A4.21B5.2A.3A$21.B2AB9.
A.A25.2A.4A6.9B2.2B.5B6.A.A$22.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A31.8B7.3B2A4.A$21.B.B9.
2A.2A2.A2.A.A21.2A6.6B12.A2BA2.2A$21.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A21.2A5.8B11.ABAB
3.A.2A$21.6B6.2ABA2.4A.A28.4B2.4B11.A4B.A.2A$21.8B4.2A.A.A3.A29.4B4.
4B12.B2A.A$22.13B2.A.AB2.A15.2A7.B2.4B6.4B11.BAB.A$20.13B5.A.A2B.A14.
A6.8B8.4B8.A4.A$19.15B5.A2B.2A11.BA.A4.9B10.4B7.5A$19.15B4.3B12.2A.B
2A5.8B12.4B$18.17B.B.2B12.B2A2B6.8B14.4B7.A$18.29B6.4B5.10B14.4B5.A.A
5.A$17.13B2A11BD4B3.6B5.9B16.4B5.A4.3A$16.14B2A9B3D4B2.6B7.7B8.2A8.4B
8.A$15.2AB3.20BDBD4B.7B5.9B7.B2AB8.4B7.2A$14.A2.A4.B2A16BD15B3.11B7.
2B10.4B3.5B$13.A.2A5.ABA3B3.B2.2B2.20B2.12B7.2B10.4B2.3B$13.A7.3BA2B
14.30B6.2B2AB10.9B7.2A$12.2A6.9B14.29B2.2B.BAB.A11.8B8.A$19.4B4.2A15.
33B.A.A13.10B3.B.A.2A$18.4B5.A15.33BA.A.A.A11.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$17.4B7.3A
12.32BABA.A.A.A10.7B2A3BAB2.2A$16.4B10.A10.2AB.3B2.23B2.BA2.A2.A11.
12B4A$3.2A10.4B21.A.AB6.22B4.B2A.2A10.2AB.7B3.2B.A$4.A9.4B22.A8.24B5.
A.A10.A.AB.7B2.B3A$2.A10.4B22.2A7.24B6.A.A10.A5.4B4.A$2.5A5.4B5.2A25.
9B4.9B9.A10.2A5.4B5.5A$7.A4.4B5.A24.2AB2.6B6.7B26.4B10.A$4.3AB2.7B.BA
.A23.A.AB3.B.B7.9B24.4B9.A$3.A.2B3.7B.B2A21.A2.A7.3B6.10B22.4B10.2A$
3.4A12B22.A.A.A6.B2AB7.8B22.4B$.2A2.BA3B2A7B21.A2.A.2A5.B2AB8.8B20.4B
$A2.3AB.2B2A7B9.A3.A3.2A2.A.A2.A2.A3.3B9.9B18.4B$2A.A.B3.10B7.3A2.A.A
2.A2.2A.2A3.2A4.B.B10.8B16.4B$3.A8.8B5.A5.A.A3.A.A2.B8.5B12.B2.4B14.
4B$3.2A7.12B.2A5.A.4A2.AB2A6.6B16.4B12.4B$13.3B2.9B7.A3.A.A.2A4.8B17.
4B10.4B$11.5B3.6B8.A2.BA.A2.13B19.4B8.4B$11.2A7.5B7.A.2BA.A5.13B18.4B
6.4B$12.A6.7B6.2A.2BA5.15B18.4B4.4B$9.3A8.6B10.3B4.15B19.4B2.4B$9.A
10.7B10.2B.B.17B19.8B$20.8B2.29B20.6B$20.13BD11B2A13B20.4B$20.13B3D9B
2A14B18.6B13.A$19.14BDBD20B3.B2A16.8B10.3A$19.16BD19B4.A2.A14.4B2.4B
8.A$14.B4.20B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A12.4B4.4B7.2A$13.2AB.21B12.6B7.A11.4B6.
4B3.5B$13.2A24B9.9B6.2A9.4B8.4B2.3B9.2A$14.B.23B9.2A4.4B15.4B10.9B8.A
.A$17.15B2A7B8.A5.4B13.4B12.8B.B8.A$17.15B2A2B2A4B4.3A7.4B11.4B14.11B
3.B.BA.2A$17.18B2A5B4.A10.4B9.4B15.12B.B2A.A.A$17.12B4.4BA3B17.4B7.4B
16.14B2A.A.A$16.11B6.8B18.4B5.4B17.8B2A5B2.A.2A$15.13B6.3B.4B18.4B3.
4B16.2AB.5BA2BA3B4A2.A$16.12B11.4B18.4B.4B16.A.AB.6B2A2B.BAB2.2A$17.
10B13.4B18.7B17.A5.7B6.2A$17.9B15.4B18.5B17.2A5.4B.2B7.A$17.9B16.4B6.
A10.5B23.4B9.A$17.9B17.4B5.3A7.7B21.4B10.2A$20.5B19.4B7.A5.4B.4B19.4B
$21.4B20.4B5.2A4.4B3.4B6.A10.4B$21.4B21.4B4.9B5.4B5.3A7.4B$22.4B21.4B
5.6B7.4B7.A5.4B$23.4B21.4B2.8B8.4B5.2A4.4B$24.4B21.15B7.4B4.9B$25.4B
21.14B8.4B5.7B$26.4B21.13B9.4B2.7BAB$27.4B21.10B.B2A8.11BABAB.B$28.4B
22.3B2AB3.BA.A8.11BA3B2A.2A$29.4B21.3B2AB6.A9.14B2A.A2.A$30.4B22.4B6.
2A9.15B3.2A$31.4B21.3B20.3B2AB4.4B$32.4B17.AB.2B21.3B2AB3.A2.AB$33.4B
15.A.AB2AB22.4B3.4AB$34.4B14.A.ABABAB21.3B10.A$35.4B10.2A.A.A.A.A2.A
16.AB.2B7.5A$36.4B9.A2.A2.2A.4A15.A.AB2AB6.A$37.4B10.2A4.A19.A.ABABAB
7.A$38.4B15.A.A16.2A.A.A.A2.A4.2A$39.4B15.2A17.A2.2A.4A$40.3BA33.A4.A
$41.3BA33.3A.A2.2A$42.3AB34.2A3.2A!

Post by **dvgrn** » November 7th, 2024, 3:26 pm

Vort wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm
I needed color-changing 90° reflector for my gun_5477.
Bandersnatch + Snark solution was too bulky, so I remembered seeing an alternative during Turing machine optimizations.
I took device from there, it fit well, but I realized that I don't know its name.

There's no name that I know of assigned to that transparent-pond CC Snark, or to the "transparent-pond G-to-junk" that Mitchell Riley found back in January.

The G-to-G in the link is a color-preserving variant that sends its output glider in the opposite direction -- a CP Snark with repeat time 153 instead of a CC Snark with repeat time 167.

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm

Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction):

Code: Select all

#C The Snark
#C https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Snark&oldid=155830
x = 25, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14bobo$16bo4b2o$12b4ob2o2bo2bo$12bo2bobobobob2o$15bobobobo$16b2o
bobo$20bo2$6b2o$7bo7b2o$7bobo5b2o$8b2o7$18b2o$18bo$19b3o$21bo7$3o$2bo
$bo!

Vort wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm
[...]
Can anyone say how is it named and if should there be wiki article about it?
Also what methods are available for figuring out object's history besides asking question here on forum?
[...]

The majority of components/devices are unnamed, although might have a systematic description of some sort (for example SW-2T21 or RF28B).

In general, one good place to look is https://conwaylife.com/ref/mniemiec/lifesrch.htm "Search For Pattern"
Another page is https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object (Catagolue's identification tool).
However, those pages only work for some objects (still-lives, oscillators, spaceships). AFAIK that does not work for conduits or other components that aren't self-sufficient. For those, one would look through multiple places, including (depending on the kind of component/device) relevant forum threads, wiki pages, pattern collections.

For stable glider reflectors, check these pages:
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?titl ... did=148663
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?titl ... did=144962

Citation needed · Post by **Citation needed** » November 8th, 2024, 5:49 am

Does Catagolue have a "pseudo still life" ranking?
The natural snorkel loop that ColorfulGalaxy found has a block on it.
He wanted to rank the objects that he found.

By the way, should the snorkel loop be really natural?

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 8th, 2024, 7:14 am

Sounds like you might be interested in these tabulations. (For more information about the ruletable used to generate these, see the forum thread Common compact constellations / B3S23clustersv0.)

x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs44
The snorkel loop is currently ranked #133 or #132, and its extended apgcode is xs44_0o48a6zw113_s6qnlpfz132647:

Code: Select all

#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xs44_0o48a6zw113_s6qnlpfz132647/x2xb3s23clustersv0
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs44
x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3S23clustersv0
3.4B$.3B2AB$2BA2BAB$BAB2A2B$BA4B$2B3AB$.3BAB$3.3B!

x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs56
As far as I understand, pseudo still lives matching your description ("... has a block on it.") will appear there:

Code: Select all

#C [[ STARTFROM 1 ]]
x = 29, y = 18, rule = B3S23clustersv0
5b2o$4bo2bo$5bobo$3bobob2o$3b2o3$25b2o$25b2o2$5b2o8b2o8b2o$4bo2bo6bo2b
o6bo2bo$5bobo7bobo7bobo$2obobob2o4bobob2o4bobob2o$2ob2o8b2o8b2o2$13b2o
$13b2o!

Citation needed wrote: ↑
November 8th, 2024, 5:49 am
Does Catagolue have a "pseudo still life" ranking?
The natural snorkel loop that ColorfulGalaxy found has a block on it.
He wanted to rank the objects that he found.

By the way, should the snorkel loop be really natural?

hotdogPi · Post by **hotdogPi** » November 8th, 2024, 7:50 am

This one works better:

https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/b3s23/Pseudo_C1

Post by **dvgrn** » November 8th, 2024, 7:51 am

confocaloid wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction)...

Hmm, maybe the Snark article needs an "Etymology" section along the same lines as Herschel and quite a few other articles. The name "Snark" originates from Lewis Carroll's epic poem The Hunting of the Snark, where Snarks come in more than one form -- some have whiskers, some have feathers, etc.

It's not terribly common usage, but I think it's actually okay to use "Snark" to mean just "small 90-degree reflector". This follows the pre-2013 usage of the term, when people were looking for any small 90-degree reflector but certainly didn't care if it was color-preserving or not.

People have certainly used "Snark" in a generalized sense as a short alternative to "90-degree glider reflector", with fair regularity since the discovery of "the" Snark (Mike Playle's). An adjective in front of "Snark" makes it clear that it's not the standard Snark that's being referenced -- e.g., my "color-changing Snark", simsim314's "Spartan snark", Kazyan's "spartan snark", AlbertArmstain's "cc snark", C_R_116's "Smallest Snark?", etc.

Was anyone confused by "a CP Snark with repeat time 153 instead of a CC Snark with repeat time 167" in my message a few posts up? When "Snark" is used as a generalized term, it's usually talking about something hypothetical, and small, and preferably elementary.

So my descriptive label "transparent-pond CC Snark" was certainly pushing the boundaries of standard usage somewhat, in two different ways. The transparent-pond CC Snark isn't particularly small, and it's sort of questionable if it's even elementary.

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 8th, 2024, 7:59 am

dvgrn wrote: ↑
November 8th, 2024, 7:51 am

confocaloid wrote: ↑
November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction)...
[...]
[...]
So my descriptive label "transparent-pond CC Snark" was certainly pushing the boundaries of standard usage somewhat, in two different ways. The transparent-pond CC Snark isn't particularly small, and it's sort of questionable if it's even elementary.

I would say it is questionable to claim that a CC reflector can be "Snark" (or "snark") at all.

I always thought that there is only one reflector named Snark, which is the 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector discovered by Mike Playle. (Ignoring/merging variants that keep the same reaction.)

Other glider reflectors might be stable or periodic (or even "functionally stable" when a periodic device can be used as if it was stable), dependent or independent (in the periodic case), colour-preserving or colour-changing, parity-preserving or parity-changing, 90-degree or 180-degree, with various possibilities when the exact timing is taken into account, with different repeat times, with different possibilities of overclocking or otherwise "misusing" the device beyond what it is guaranteed to do; but I would say that those other reflectors are certainly neither "snarks" nor "Snarks".

And definitely neither reflectors for other spaceships, nor glider/spaceship lane shifters, are (S|s)narks.

Timelord Missionary · Post by **Timelord Missionary** » November 10th, 2024, 4:44 pm

I've been trying to study faster-than-light patterns like this: (this particular one is 2c diagonal)

Code: Select all

x = 580, y = 511, rule = B3/S23
61$457b4o$456b2o2bo$454b5o$458bo$453bo2b2o$452bo3bo$454b2o$451b2ob2o$
449b2obobo$448b3o$446bo3bob2o$446bo3bo$445bo2bo$443b3obobo$443bob3o$441b
o3bo$440b2o3b2o$438b3o4bo$439bo2b3o$436bo3b2ob2o$436bo3bo2bo$437b3o$434b
obob5o$433b2o5bo$431b3o5bo$432b2o2bo$429bo$429bobo$428bobo$426b2o$425b
4o$423bo3bo$423bo2bo$422b2o2bo$421b2ob2o$419bo4bo$419b2ob2o$417bo4b2o
$416b5obo$414b2o$413b5ob3o$411bo$411bo2bo3bo$410b2o2b5o$409b2obobobo$
407bo2bobobobo$407bo2bobo$406bobobo$404b3obo2bo$404bobobo$402bobobo$402b
obo$402bo2bo$399b2obo$400bo$397b2o$396bob2o$395b2o$393b2ob2o$392bo3bo
$391b2o2bo$389b2obob2o$388bobob3o$387b2o4bo$385b2obobo2bo$384bobo2bo$
383b2obo$381b2obo2bo$380bobob2o$379b2o3bo$377b2obob2o$376bobobob2o$375b
2obobobo$373b2obobo$372bobobo3b2o$371b2obo3bo$369b2obo4bo$368bobo2bob
o$367b2obobo$365b2obob2o$364bobobobo$363b2obobo$361b2obobob2o$360bobo
bobo$359b2obobob2o$357b2obobobobo$356bobobobob2o$355b2obobobob2o$353b
2obobobo3bo$352bobobobo$351b2obobo2bob3o$349b2obobobob4o$348bobobobo4b
2o$347b2obobo2b2o$345b2obobobob3o2bo$344bobobobo3bo2b2o$343b2obobo3bo
3bo$341b2obobo5bo2b2o$340bobobo2bobobo2bo$339b2obobobo2b3ob2o$337b2ob
obob4obo2bo$336bobobobo4bobob2o$335b2obobobo2bobo$333b2obobobobo2bo2b
3o$332bobobobob2o3bo3bo$331b2obobobobob2o2b3o$329b2obobobobo2b3o4bo$328b
obobobobobo2b2ob4o$327b2obobobobobo7bo$325b2obobobobob2obo2b4o$324bob
obobobobob2obo5bo$323b2obobobobo4bo3b4o$321b2obobobobo7b2o3bo$320bobo
bobobo2bo2b2ob2ob3o$319b2obobobobo5bo2bo4bo$317b2obobobobo5b4o2b4o$316b
obobobobo5bo4bo4bo$315b2obobobo2bo5bob2ob4o$313b2obobobobo6bo9bo$312b
obobobobo7bo3b7o$311b2obobobo18bo$309b2obobobo2bo11b6o$308bobobobobo12b
o6bo$307b2obobobo15b6o$305b2obobobo21bo$304bobobobo2bo14b6o$303b2obob
obo22bo$301b2obobobo18b6o$300bobobobo18bo5bo$299b2obobo2bo18b5o$297b2o
bobobo25bo$296bobobobo21b6o$295b2obobo27bo$293b2obobo2bo21b5o$292bobo
bobo22bo5bo$291b2obobo25b5o$289b2obobo30bo$288bobobo2bo24b5o$287b2obo
bo31bo$285b2obobo28b5o$284bobobo28bo4bo$283b2obo2bo28b4o$281b2obobo34b
o$280bobobo31b5o$279b2obo36bo$277b2obo2bo31b4o$276bobobo32bo4bo$275b2o
bo35b4o$273b2obo39bo$272bobo2bo34b4o$271b2obo40bo$269b2obo38b4o$268bo
bo38bo3bo$267b2ob2o38b3o$265b2o45bo$264b3ob2o38b4o$262bo5bo41bo$262bo
bob2o39b3o$262bo3b2o37bo3bo$259b2o2b2obo39b3o$259b2obo44bo$257b2ob2ob
3o38b3o$260bo45bo$256bo3b3o40b3o$255bo5b2o38bo2bo$258bobo40b3o$257bo2b
o38bo3bo$257b2o39b2ob2o$255bo40b2o3bo$254b3o38b3ob2o$252b2obo37bo5b2o
$251bo2bo38bobobobo$250b2o2bo38bobo$248b2o2b2o36b2o2bob3o$247b3o2bo37b
2obo$245bo4b2o36b2ob5o$245bo4b2o42b2o$244bobo3bo36bobo3bo$242b3o2bo39b
2o4bo$242bobo3b2o35bo5bo$240bobo2b3o36b3o3bo$240bobo3bo35b2obo$240bo2b
4o34bo2bo$237b2obo39b2o2bo$238bo2b4o33b2o2b2o$235b2obo38b3o2bo$234bob
o2b3o33bo4b2o$233b2obo4bo33bo4b2o$231b2obo2b3o34bobo3bo$230bobobo4bo32b
3o2bo$229b2obo2b4o33bobo3b2o$227b2obobo4bo32bobo2b3o$226bobobo2b4o33b
obo3bo$225b2obobo5bo33bo2b4o$223b2obobo2b5o31b2obo$222bobobobo5bo33bo
2b4o$221b2obobo2b5o31b2obo$219b2obobobo6bo30bobo2b3o$218bobobobo2b6o30b
2obo4bo$217b2obobobo6bo29b2obo2b3o$215b2obobobo2b6o29bobobo4bo$214bob
obobobo7bo28b2obo2b4o$213b2obobobo2b7o27b2obobo4bo$211b2obobobobo7bo27b
obobo2b4o$210bobobobobo2b7o27b2obobo5bo$209b2obobobobo8bo25b2obobo2b5o
$207b2obobobobo2b8o25bobobobo5bo$206bobobobobobo8bo25b2obobo2b5o$205b
2obobobobo2b8o24b2obobobo6bo$203b2obobobobobo9bo23bobobobo2b6o$202bob
obobobobo2b9o23b2obobobo6bo$201b2obobobobobo9bo22b2obobobo2b6o$199b2o
bobobobobo2b9o22bobobobobo7bo$198bobobobobobobo10bo21b2obobobo2b7o$197b
2obobobobobo2b10o20b2obobobobo7bo$195b2obobobobobobo10bo20bobobobobo2b
7o$194bobobobobobobo2b10o20b2obobobobo8bo$193b2obobobobobobo11bo18b2o
bobobobo2b8o$191b2obobobobobobo2b11o18bobobobobobo8bo$190bobobobobobo
bobo11bo18b2obobobobo2b8o$189b2obobobobobobo2b11o17b2obobobobobo9bo$187b
2obobobobobobobo12bo16bobobobobobo2b9o$186bobobobobobobobo2b12o16b2ob
obobobobo9bo$185b2obobobobobobobo12bo15b2obobobobobo2b9o$183b2obobobo
bobobobo2b12o15bobobobobobobo10bo$182bobobobobobobobobo13bo14b2obobob
obobo2b10o$181b2obobobobobobobo2b13o13b2obobobobobobo10bo$179b2obobob
obobobobobo13bo13bobobobobobobo2b10o$178bobobobobobobobobo2b13o13b2ob
obobobobobo11bo$177b2obobobobobobobobo14bo11b2obobobobobobo2b11o$175b
2obobobobobobobobo2b14o11bobobobobobobobo11bo$174bobobobobobobobobobo
14bo11b2obobobobobobo2b11o$173b2obobobobobobobobo2b14o10b2obobobobobo
bobo12bo$171b2obobobobobobobobobo15bo9bobobobobobobobo2b12o$170bobobo
bobobobobobobo2b15o9b2obobobobobobobo12bo$169b2obobobobobobobobobo15b
o8b2obobobobobobobo2b12o$167b2obobobobobobobobobo2b15o8bobobobobobobo
bobo13bo$166bobobobobobobobobobobo16bo7b2obobobobobobobo2b13o$165b2ob
obobobobobobobobo2b16o6b2obobobobobobobobo13bo$163b2obobobobobobobobo
bobo16bo6bobobobobobobobobo2b13o$162bobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o6b2obo
bobobobobobobo14bo$161b2obobobobobobobobobobo17bo4b2obobobobobobobobo
2b14o$159b2obobobobobobobobobobo2b17o4bobobobobobobobobobo14bo$158bob
obobobobobobobobobobo17bo4b2obobobobobobobobo2b14o$157b2obobobobobobo
bobobobo2b17o3b2obobobobobobobobobo15bo$155b2obobobobobobobobobobobo18b
o2bobobobobobobobobobo2b15o$154bobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o2b2obobob
obobobobobobo15bo$153b2obobobobobobobobobobobo18b4obobobobobobobobobo
2b15o$151b2obobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o5bobobobobobobobobobo16bo$150b
obobobobobobobobobobobobo21bobobobobobobobobobo2b16o$149b2obobobobobo
bobobobobobo2b15o3bo2bobobobobobobobobobo16bo$147b2obobobobobobobobob
obobobo16b2o5bobobobobobobobobo2b16o$146bobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o
4b2obobobobobobobobobo17bo$145b2obobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo2b2obobo
bobobobobobobo2b17o$143b2obobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16ob5obobobobobob
obobobo17bo$142bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo23bobobobobobobobobo2b17o$
141b2obobobobobobobobobobobobo2b15ob4o3bobobobobobobobobo18bo$139b2ob
obobobobobobobobobobobobo21bobobobobobobobobobo2b18o$138bobobobobobob
obobobobobobobo2b14o3b4o2bobobobobobobobobo18bo$137b2obobobobobobobob
obobobobobo15b2o4bo3bobobobobobobobo2b18o$135b2obobobobobobobobobobob
obobo2b15o3b3o2bobobobobobobobobo19bo$134bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bo16bobo6bobobobobobobobo2b19o$133b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b15ob
2ob2obo2bobobobobobobobo19bo$131b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18bo3b
ob2obobobobobobobo2b19o$130bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b14o2bob3ob
2obobobobobobobobo20bo$129b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo16bo8bobobob
obobobobo2b20o$127b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b14o3b3ob2o2bobobob
obobobobo20bo$126bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo15b2o6bobobobobobobo
bobo2b20o$125b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b15o2b2ob3o2bobobobobobo
bobo21bo$123b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo16b3o4bobobobobobobobobo
2b21o$122bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b14o3bo2b2obobobobobobobobo
bo21bo$121b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18bo6bobobobobobobobo2b21o
$119b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b13o5bo4bobobobobobobobobo22bo$
118bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo14bo3b2o2b2obobobobobobobobo2b22o
$117b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b13o5b2o2bo2bobobobobobobobo22b
o$115b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo14bo3bob4obobobobobobobobo2b22o
$114bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b14o11bobobobobobobobo23bo$113b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo14bo4b2ob2obobobobobobobobo2b23o$111b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b14o3b2o4bobobobobobobobobo23bo$110b
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo15bo2b2o2b2o3bobobobobobobo2b23o$109b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b15ob3o4bobobobobobobobobo24bo$107b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo20bob2o3bobobobobobobo2b24o$106bo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o3b2obo3bobobobobobobo24bo$105b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo4b3o2bobobobobobobo2b24o$103b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o2bo3b2o2bobobobobobobo25bo$102b
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo25b2o2bobobobobobo2b25o$101b2obo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o8b3obobobobobobo25bo$99b2obobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo24bo4bobobobobobo2b25o$98bobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o9bobobobobobobobo26bo$97b2obobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobo17bo8b2obobobobobobo2b26o$95b2obobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobo2b16o9bo3bobobobobobo26bo$94bobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobo17bo8b2obobobobobobo2b26o$93b2obobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobo2b17o7b2obobobobobobobo27bo$91b2obobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobo17bo7bobo3bobobobobo2b27o$90bobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobo2b17o7b2obobobobobobobo27bo$89b2obobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobo18bo5b2obo3bobobobobo2b27o$87b2obobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o5bobo5bobobobobo28bo$86bobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobo18bo5b2ob2o2bobobobobo2b28o$85b2obobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o4b2o7bobobobobo28bo$83b2obobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobo19bo3b3ob2o4bobobobo2b28o$82bobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b19o2bo5bo2b2obobobobo29bo$81b2obobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo19b2o2bobob2o4bobobobo2b29o$79b2obobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o2b2o2bo3b2ob2obobobobo29bo$78b
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo21b3o2b2o2b2obobobobo2b29o
$77b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o2bo3b2obo4b2obobob
obo30bo$75b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18bo6b2o6bobob
obo2b30o$74bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o5bo3b2o6b
obobobo30bo$73b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo9bo5bo
bobobo2b30o$71b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o8bo8b
obobobo31bo$70bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo9b2o6b
obobo2b31o$69b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o8b2o5b
2obobobo31bo$67b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo7bo
bo7bobobo2b31o$66bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o7b
4o4b2obobobo32bo$65b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18b
o5b2o7bobobobo2b32o$63b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
2b18o5b3obo4b2obobobo32bo$62bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobo18bo4bo8b2obobobo2b32o$61b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobo2b18o5bob2o4bobobobobo33bo$59b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobo19bo7bo4b2obobobo2b33o$58bobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobo2b19o6b2o3b2obobobobo33bo$57b2obobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo19bo5bob2o2bobobobobo2b33o$55b2obobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b19o5b2obo2b2obobobobo34bo$54b
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo20bo3b2o3b3obobobobo
2b34o$53b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b20o3b3o5bo
bobobobo34bo$51b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo20b
o2bo4b2obobobobobo2b34o$50bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobo2b21o2bo4b2obobobobobo35bo$49b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobo22bobobo2bo3bobobobo2b35o$47b2obobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b19obob3o2bobobobobobobo35bo$46bobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo24bobob2obobobobobo2b35o$45b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o4bobo2bobo3bob
obobo36bo$43b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo19bo
bo2bobo2bo3bobobobo2b36o$42bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobo2b19o5bob2obo3bobobobo36bo$41b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobo19b2o2b2obo2bo2bo2bobobo2b36o$39b2obobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o2b4obob2ob2ob2obobobo37bo
$38bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo22b3obo5b2ob
obobo2b37o$37b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o
8bob4o3bobobobo37bo$35b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobo17bo3bo4bo3b2o3bobobo2b37o$34bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobo2b16o8bobo2bo3bobobobo38bo$33b2obobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17bo8bobo2b2o2bobobo2b38o$31b2ob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b17o9b2obob2o2bob
obo38bo$30bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo17b
o7b2ob2o4b2obobo2b38o$29b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobo2b17o13bo4bobobo39bo$27b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobo18bo8b2o4bobobobo2b39o$26bobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o9bob2o4bobobo39bo$25b2obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18bo8b3o4bo2bobo2b39o$23b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o11bo5bob
obo40bo$22bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo19b
o9bo7bobo2b40o$21b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobo2b19o8bobo4b2obobo40bo$19b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobo19bo8bobo6bobo2b40o$18bobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b19o8bobo4b2obobo41bo$17b2obobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo20bo7bobo4bobobo2b41o$15b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b20o7bobo4b
2obobo41bo$14bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobo20bo7bobo3b2obobo2b41o$13b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobo2b20o7bobo3bobobobo42bo$11b2obobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo21bo6bobo3b2obobo2b42o$10bobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b21o6bobo2b2obo
bobo42bo$9b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bo21bo6bob4obobobo2b42o$7b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobo2b21o6bo4b2obobobo43bo$6bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo22bo5b3o4bobobo2b43o$5b2obobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b22o4bo2bo5bobobo43b
o$3b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo22b
o5bobo4bobobo2b43o$2bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobo2b22o8bo4bobobo44bo$b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobo23bo6b2o5bobo2b44o$obobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b23o5bobo3b2obobo44bo$obobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo23bo5b3o5bobo2b44o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b23o4b2o
b2o2b2obobo45bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobo24bo3bo3bo2bobobo2b45o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobo2b24o3b2o3bob2obobo45bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo24bo2b2o3bo2bobobo2b45o$obobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b30ob2o2bobobo46bo$obobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo32b4obobo2b46o$obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b27o2bo5bobobo46bo$obobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo31b2o2bobobo2b46o$obo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o3b2obo2bobobo47b
o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27b3o2bo4bobo2b47o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o3b2obob2obobo47b
o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bobo2bob2obobo2b
47o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obo2bobob2obob
o48bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bo2bobo4bobo2b
48o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obo2bo6bobo48bo$
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bob2o2bo3bobo2b48o$obo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obob2o6bobo49bo$obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bo3bo7bo2b49o$obobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o10b2obo49bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobo27b2ob3o6bo2b49o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b
26ob4o5b2obo50bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo30b2o5bobo2b50o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25obo9b2obo50bo$obobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobo27bobo2bo3b2obo2b50o$obobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobo2b27o3b2o3bobobo51bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27b
5o4b2obo2b51o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25o5b2o2b2obobo51bo$
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo33b3obobo2b51o$obobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobo2b24o4bo4b3obobo52bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo25bo11b
obo2b52o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b24o9bo3bobo52bo$obobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobo25bo11bobo2b52o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25o12bob
o53bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo25bo10bo2bo2b53o$obobobobobobobobobo
bobobo2b25o11b2obo53bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobo26bo9b2obo2b53o$obobo
bobobobobobobobobo2b26o11bobo54bo$obobobobobobobobobobobo26bo9b2obo2b
54o$obobobobobobobobobobo2b26o9bobobo54bo$obobobobobobobobobobo27bo8b
2obo2b54o$obobobobobobobobobo2b27o7b2obobo55bo$obobobobobobobobobo27b
o7bobobo2b55o$obobobobobobobobo2b27o7b2obobo55bo$obobobobobobobobo28b
o5b2obobo2b55o$obobobobobobobo2b28o5bobobobo56bo$obobobobobobobo28bo5b
2obobo2b56o$obobobobobobo2b28o4b2obobobo56bo$obobobobobobo29bo3bobobo
bo2b56o$obobobobobo2b29o3b2obobobo57bo$obobobobobo29bo2b2obobobo2b57o
$obobobobo2b32obobobobo57bo$obobobobo32b2obobobo2b57o$obobobo2b29o4bo
bobobo58bo$obobobo30bo4bobobo2b58o$obobo2b29o4bobobobo58bo$obobo30bo4b
obobo2b58o$obo2b30o5bobobo59bo$obo30bo3b2obobo2b59o$o2b30o5bobobo59bo
$o31bo2b2obobo2b59o$b31o2bobobobo60bo$30b2ob2obobo2b60o$28o4bobobobo60b
o$32bobobo2b60o$25o5bobobobo61bo$24bo5bobobo2b61o$23o7bobobo61bo$22bo
4b2obobo2b61o$22o6bobobo62bo$20bo4b2obobo2b62o$20o4bobobobo62bo$19bo3b
2obobo2b62o$19o2b2obobobo63bo$17b2obobobobo2b63o$15o3b3obobobo63bo$18b
obobobo2b63o$12o6bobobobo64bo$11bo3b2obobobo2b64o$10o6bobobobo64bo$9b
o3b2obobobo2b64o$9o3bobobobobo65bo$7bo3b2obobobo2b65o$7o2b2obobobobo65b
o$7b2obobobobo2b65o$5o2b2obobobobo66bo$8bobobobo2b66o!

How can I put the cut-and-pasted front end in the rle instead of putting it in manually every single generation?
And: are there any acceptable fora for the stuff I am looking at, possibly in "Other Cellular automata?"
edit: I was also going to ask if, ignoring the front end, this particular one could be "stabilized" to make a quarter-space filler, but then I realized the middle was weirdly glide-symmetric p23, so that's not going to happen unless Keith Amling does his magnetohydrodynamicks[sic] on it.

Citation needed · Post by **Citation needed** » November 10th, 2024, 6:32 pm

Timelord Missionary wrote: ↑
November 10th, 2024, 4:44 pm
I've been trying to study faster-than-light patterns like this: (this particular one is 2c diagonal)
Code: Select all
x rule = B3/S23
o!
How can I put the cut-and-pasted front end in the rle instead of putting it in manually every single generation?
And: are there any acceptable fora for the stuff I am looking at, possibly in "Other Cellular automata?"
edit: I was also going to ask if, ignoring the front end, this particular one could be "stabilized" to make a quarter-space filler, but then I realized the middle was weirdly glide-symmetric p23, so that's not going to happen unless Keith Amling does his magnetohydrodynamicks[sic] on it.

You can use LifeViewer scripts.

Code: Select all

x rule = B3/S23
2o$2o!
[[ PASTEMODE 3 PASTEDELTA 3 0 PASTET EVERY 1 PASTE 2o$2o! 0 0 ]]

unname4798 · Post by **unname4798** » November 15th, 2024, 9:06 am

dvgrn wrote: ↑
May 28th, 2024, 7:26 am
I'd advise against posting patterns in b-engine's abbreviated form, at least for the moment. The minimal header would be
Code: Select all
x=0,y=0,rule={rule}

Months passed and the actual minimal header is still this:

Code: Select all

x rule={rule}

Code: Select all

x rule=HighLife
ooo.$
...o$
...o$
...o!

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am

Do you really believe that it would be a good idea to post/share patterns in this "hacked" format, with an undocumented incomplete header? Why?
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?

The advantage of always using the documented and widely supported format, is that it is very likely to work "everywhere" as long as the software in question correctly supports the documented RLE format.

unname4798 wrote: ↑
November 15th, 2024, 9:06 am
Months passed and the actual minimal header is still this:
Code: Select all
x rule={rule}

unname4798 · Post by **unname4798** » November 15th, 2024, 9:25 am

confocaloid wrote: ↑
November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?

I don't have Golly.

b-engine · Post by **b-engine** » November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am

confocaloid wrote: ↑
November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am
Do you really believe that it would be a good idea to post/share patterns in this "hacked" format, with an undocumented incomplete header? Why?
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?

I, do, as undocumented features can actually be more helpful than documented ones (there are some examples). It does work correctly, but I don't like a feature to be scrapped just because of Golly; parity isn't necessary.
If I ever write something that runs CAs, I would make this the one of the default RLE formats, ignoring whatever Golly supports.

hotdogPi · Post by **hotdogPi** » November 15th, 2024, 10:13 am

Unlike the previous format, this one pastes the six cells in the RLE in Golly properly. It thinks the rule is regular Life, though.

b-engine wrote: ↑
November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am
I, do, as undocumented features can actually be more helpful than documented ones (there are some examples). It does work correctly, but I don't like a feature to be scrapped just because of Golly; parity isn't necessary.
If I ever write something that runs CAs, I would make this the one of the default formats, ignoring whatever Golly supports.

Hard disagree. Formats should be standardized. For a different example of when they're not: mojibake. Also the many incompatible USB variants that thankfully got standardized, and electric vehicle chargers that I believe are in the same situation (originally different but now compatible).

What's the advantage of an undocumented feature other than just being too lazy to write the documentation?

confocaloid · Post by **confocaloid** » November 15th, 2024, 10:49 am

b-engine wrote: ↑
November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am

The proposed 'x rule' in particular reads as meaningless gibberish.
Why "x rule"? What that is supposed to mean?
Should there be "y rule", then (which might be distinct from "x rule")?

Simplifying things a bit, a RLE snippet must begin with a header line of the form

Code: Select all

x = 314, y = 271, rule = B3/S23

where '314', '271' may be replaced by other positive integers, and 'B3/S23' may be replaced by another string that either defines a CA or refers to a .rule file with that name.
It's straightforward to read and understand the intended meaning; "x" and "y" are respectively the width and height of the pattern.

Now, there are also headerless single-line RLEs, which are fairly well-understood at this point.
There are also headers where the "rule = " part is omitted.
There are some other details and variations.

However, "x rule" doesn't fit in that scheme at all. Not only that's an undocumented nonfeature, but actually I'd like to state an explicit objection against any attempts to "document" it. The "x rule" syntax should be considered invalid/ill-formed RLE, and rejected with an error message.

Code: Select all
# python3 -m this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

ConwayLife.com

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