Thread for basic questions

For general discussion about Conway's Game of Life.
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confocaloid
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 3rd, 2024, 3:42 am

For context, "9:43 at Knight" seems to be the name of this CA: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=861

Code: Select all

x = 28, y = 10, rule = 237/34578/4
2A24.2A$A.A11.2A9.A.A$.2A10.A2.A8.A.A$13.4A8.A.A$25.A.A$13.4A8.A.A$
13.A2.A9.2A$14.2A$2A$2A!
Note that this would fit better in viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2238 "Thread for basic non-CGOL questions", because the question is about a CA other than CGoL.
pifricted wrote:
November 3rd, 2024, 2:43 am
Are block and ship the only still lives in 9:43 at knight?
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Gustone » November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm

Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 6th, 2024, 4:39 pm

Gustone wrote:
November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm
Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip
Although this doesn't answer the asked question, I have some doubts about whether [subsets of] "patterns that have pages on lifewiki" are useful enough to try downloading them as a collection. To me at least, which patterns currently appear on the wiki seems to be a fairly arbitrary selection.

If you are interested in existing patterns, consider downloading specific collections instead, for example
jslife http://entropymine.com/jason/life/
jslife-moving https://github.com/Matthias-Merzenich/jslife-moving
Dieter and Peter's glider gun collection
and others.
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » November 6th, 2024, 4:54 pm

Gustone wrote:
November 6th, 2024, 4:03 pm
Where can i download all the patterns that have pages on lifewiki but are not included in all.zip
You'd have to write a scraper script that looks for embedded LifeViewers that have an "rle =" parameter instead of a "pname =" parameter.

If you're interested in tackling that problem, most of the code you need is already waiting for you in lifewiki-rlescraper.py.

Pretty much all patterns that are represented by LifeWiki articles do in fact have pnames, and therefore are represented in the RLE namespace and have been included in all.zip. What specific exception(s) are you thinking about, if any, besides the embedded-LifeViewer ones?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by get_Snacked » November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am

is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 7th, 2024, 1:50 am

get_Snacked wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am
is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.
Well, I don't see any immediately obvious obstacles, and since from your words it looks like there was already some nontrivial amount of brainstorming on this question happening elsewhere, it seems reasonable to ask for more details on what you have tried and what were obstacles (maybe crosspost the discussion?)
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Gustone » November 7th, 2024, 2:23 am

dvgrn wrote:
November 6th, 2024, 4:54 pm
What specific exception(s) are you thinking about
Most of the larger patterns such as engineered spaceships, their pattern files are exclusively in .mc

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » November 7th, 2024, 9:13 am

get_Snacked wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 1:25 am
is it possible to make 0E0P Langton's Ant? me and my friend had been workshopping it on another server on Discord, but never came to a conclusion of whether it's possible.
Is the INT Langton's Ant an acceptable solution? If so, then that's definitely a rule that an 0E0P metacell can be programmed to emulate. It's going to be pretty inefficient, though!

If that's no good, then ... it might still be possible, but I'm not sure. The standard Langton's Ant rule table needs ten states and a von Neumann neighborhood. The 2^25-tick variant of the 0E0P metacell supports an 8-state, 4-neighborhood BCC-automaton.

There have been some experiments with emulating Langton's Ant with a smaller number of states -- the SemisoAnt rule has only six states. But that's standard von Neumann rules, not BCC rules. So I guess the question is still open for the moment!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » November 7th, 2024, 9:37 am

Gustone wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 2:23 am
Most of the larger patterns such as engineered spaceships, their pattern files are exclusively in .mc
Got it. If I remember right, we decided not to include .mc files in all.zip because it would really explode the file size... yup:
In an email, Nathaniel wrote:all.zip only collects .cells and .rle files (just to prevent its size from ballooning out of control).
There are currently twenty-two macrocell files in the conwaylife.com pattern collection:

https://conwaylife.com/patterns/6,3c1024.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/caterpillar.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/centipede.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/collatz ... mulator.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/demonoid.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/demonoid10hd.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/gemini.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/gemini2.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/gemini3.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/halfbakedknightship.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/hbkcaterpillar.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/linearpropagator.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/loopship.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/orthogonoid.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/ortholoopship.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/parallelhbk.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/picalculator.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/pulsarpixeldisplay.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/shieldbug.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/speeddemonoid.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/ssol.mc
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/succ.mc

... and nine ZIP files:

https://conwaylife.com/patterns/camelship.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/caterpillar.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/fullyun ... achine.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/gemini.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/hbkgun.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/lif_pattern_backup.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/linearpropagator.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/oca.zip
https://conwaylife.com/patterns/waterbear.zip

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Vort » November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm

I needed color-changing 90° reflector for my gun_5477.
Bandersnatch + Snark solution was too bulky, so I remembered seeing an alternative during Turing machine optimizations.
I took device from there, it fit well, but I realized that I don't know its name.
I checked wiki and Catagolue and found nothing.
Probably I was not paying enough attention during searches, don't know.
Can anyone say how is it named and if should there be wiki article about it?
Also what methods are available for figuring out object's history besides asking question here on forum?

Code: Select all

x = 37, y = 49, rule = LifeHistory
20.A$20.3A$23.A$22.2A$13.2A7.4B$12.A2.A8.B2A$12.3A.A6.BA.A$15.A.B5.B
2A$12.2A.4B3.4B$.C10.A.5B.4B$2BC6.2A.A2.11B$3CB5.2A.2A.11B$.4B9.11B2A
$2.4B8.11B2A$3.4B7.10B.B$4.4B6.10B$5.4B4.10B$6.4B3.11B$7.4B.11B$8.15B
$9.10B.2B$9.10B$8.12B$7.14B$6.4B.12B9.2A$5.4B2.13B8.A$4.4B3.14B4.2A.A
$3.4B6.4B2A7B3.A.A.2A.A$2.4B7.3BA2BA7B3.B2.A.2A$.4B7.4BA2BA7B2.3B.A$
4B8.5B2A11B2A.A$3B10.17BA.A$2B10.17B.BA$B11.17B$11.16B$11.16B$9.2A15B
$4.2A2.A2BA4.10B$.A2.A3.BABA4.10B$A.A.A.4BA6.5B2.B$.A2.A.2AB8.3B$4.A.
BAB6.4B$5.A4.A2.A.2A$6.8AB2A$15.B$8.2A2.2A.2A$8.2A3.A.A$13.A.A$14.A!

Code: Select all

x = 113, y = 110, rule = LifeHistory
84.2A$85.A$84.A$81.A2.4A$81.3A4.A$84.A.BA.A$83.A.2B2AB$83.2A.3B$87.4B
$87.4B$62.2A5.2A14.8B$61.BA.AB.2B2AB12.12B$61.2B2AB.4B12.14B$59.2AB.
10B.B7.14B$58.A.AB3.12B4.15B$58.A7.12B3.16B$57.2A7.12B2.17B$67.10B2.
6B2A11B$65.19BA2BA11B$64.20BA2BA11B$63.A.20B2A9B2.B2A.A$62.A.A29B4.B
2AB3A$61.A.A2.B2.25B6.B4.A$22.2A11.A25.A.A.A2.A4.21B5.2A.3A$21.B2AB9.
A.A25.2A.4A6.9B2.2B.5B6.A.A$22.3B9.A.A2.2A3.A31.8B7.3B2A4.A$21.B.B9.
2A.2A2.A2.A.A21.2A6.6B12.A2BA2.2A$21.5B8.B2.A.A3.A.A21.2A5.8B11.ABAB
3.A.2A$21.6B6.2ABA2.4A.A28.4B2.4B11.A4B.A.2A$21.8B4.2A.A.A3.A29.4B4.
4B12.B2A.A$22.13B2.A.AB2.A15.2A7.B2.4B6.4B11.BAB.A$20.13B5.A.A2B.A14.
A6.8B8.4B8.A4.A$19.15B5.A2B.2A11.BA.A4.9B10.4B7.5A$19.15B4.3B12.2A.B
2A5.8B12.4B$18.17B.B.2B12.B2A2B6.8B14.4B7.A$18.29B6.4B5.10B14.4B5.A.A
5.A$17.13B2A11BD4B3.6B5.9B16.4B5.A4.3A$16.14B2A9B3D4B2.6B7.7B8.2A8.4B
8.A$15.2AB3.20BDBD4B.7B5.9B7.B2AB8.4B7.2A$14.A2.A4.B2A16BD15B3.11B7.
2B10.4B3.5B$13.A.2A5.ABA3B3.B2.2B2.20B2.12B7.2B10.4B2.3B$13.A7.3BA2B
14.30B6.2B2AB10.9B7.2A$12.2A6.9B14.29B2.2B.BAB.A11.8B8.A$19.4B4.2A15.
33B.A.A13.10B3.B.A.2A$18.4B5.A15.33BA.A.A.A11.7B2A2B.B3A2.A$17.4B7.3A
12.32BABA.A.A.A10.7B2A3BAB2.2A$16.4B10.A10.2AB.3B2.23B2.BA2.A2.A11.
12B4A$3.2A10.4B21.A.AB6.22B4.B2A.2A10.2AB.7B3.2B.A$4.A9.4B22.A8.24B5.
A.A10.A.AB.7B2.B3A$2.A10.4B22.2A7.24B6.A.A10.A5.4B4.A$2.5A5.4B5.2A25.
9B4.9B9.A10.2A5.4B5.5A$7.A4.4B5.A24.2AB2.6B6.7B26.4B10.A$4.3AB2.7B.BA
.A23.A.AB3.B.B7.9B24.4B9.A$3.A.2B3.7B.B2A21.A2.A7.3B6.10B22.4B10.2A$
3.4A12B22.A.A.A6.B2AB7.8B22.4B$.2A2.BA3B2A7B21.A2.A.2A5.B2AB8.8B20.4B
$A2.3AB.2B2A7B9.A3.A3.2A2.A.A2.A2.A3.3B9.9B18.4B$2A.A.B3.10B7.3A2.A.A
2.A2.2A.2A3.2A4.B.B10.8B16.4B$3.A8.8B5.A5.A.A3.A.A2.B8.5B12.B2.4B14.
4B$3.2A7.12B.2A5.A.4A2.AB2A6.6B16.4B12.4B$13.3B2.9B7.A3.A.A.2A4.8B17.
4B10.4B$11.5B3.6B8.A2.BA.A2.13B19.4B8.4B$11.2A7.5B7.A.2BA.A5.13B18.4B
6.4B$12.A6.7B6.2A.2BA5.15B18.4B4.4B$9.3A8.6B10.3B4.15B19.4B2.4B$9.A
10.7B10.2B.B.17B19.8B$20.8B2.29B20.6B$20.13BD11B2A13B20.4B$20.13B3D9B
2A14B18.6B13.A$19.14BDBD20B3.B2A16.8B10.3A$19.16BD19B4.A2.A14.4B2.4B
8.A$14.B4.20B2.2B2.B3.6B5.2A.A12.4B4.4B7.2A$13.2AB.21B12.6B7.A11.4B6.
4B3.5B$13.2A24B9.9B6.2A9.4B8.4B2.3B9.2A$14.B.23B9.2A4.4B15.4B10.9B8.A
.A$17.15B2A7B8.A5.4B13.4B12.8B.B8.A$17.15B2A2B2A4B4.3A7.4B11.4B14.11B
3.B.BA.2A$17.18B2A5B4.A10.4B9.4B15.12B.B2A.A.A$17.12B4.4BA3B17.4B7.4B
16.14B2A.A.A$16.11B6.8B18.4B5.4B17.8B2A5B2.A.2A$15.13B6.3B.4B18.4B3.
4B16.2AB.5BA2BA3B4A2.A$16.12B11.4B18.4B.4B16.A.AB.6B2A2B.BAB2.2A$17.
10B13.4B18.7B17.A5.7B6.2A$17.9B15.4B18.5B17.2A5.4B.2B7.A$17.9B16.4B6.
A10.5B23.4B9.A$17.9B17.4B5.3A7.7B21.4B10.2A$20.5B19.4B7.A5.4B.4B19.4B
$21.4B20.4B5.2A4.4B3.4B6.A10.4B$21.4B21.4B4.9B5.4B5.3A7.4B$22.4B21.4B
5.6B7.4B7.A5.4B$23.4B21.4B2.8B8.4B5.2A4.4B$24.4B21.15B7.4B4.9B$25.4B
21.14B8.4B5.7B$26.4B21.13B9.4B2.7BAB$27.4B21.10B.B2A8.11BABAB.B$28.4B
22.3B2AB3.BA.A8.11BA3B2A.2A$29.4B21.3B2AB6.A9.14B2A.A2.A$30.4B22.4B6.
2A9.15B3.2A$31.4B21.3B20.3B2AB4.4B$32.4B17.AB.2B21.3B2AB3.A2.AB$33.4B
15.A.AB2AB22.4B3.4AB$34.4B14.A.ABABAB21.3B10.A$35.4B10.2A.A.A.A.A2.A
16.AB.2B7.5A$36.4B9.A2.A2.2A.4A15.A.AB2AB6.A$37.4B10.2A4.A19.A.ABABAB
7.A$38.4B15.A.A16.2A.A.A.A2.A4.2A$39.4B15.2A17.A2.2A.4A$40.3BA33.A4.A
$41.3BA33.3A.A2.2A$42.3AB34.2A3.2A!

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » November 7th, 2024, 3:26 pm

Vort wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm
I needed color-changing 90° reflector for my gun_5477.
Bandersnatch + Snark solution was too bulky, so I remembered seeing an alternative during Turing machine optimizations.
I took device from there, it fit well, but I realized that I don't know its name.
There's no name that I know of assigned to that transparent-pond CC Snark, or to the "transparent-pond G-to-junk" that Mitchell Riley found back in January.

The G-to-G in the link is a color-preserving variant that sends its output glider in the opposite direction -- a CP Snark with repeat time 153 instead of a CC Snark with repeat time 167.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm

Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction):

Code: Select all

#C The Snark
#C https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Snark&oldid=155830
x = 25, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
14b2o$14bobo$16bo4b2o$12b4ob2o2bo2bo$12bo2bobobobob2o$15bobobobo$16b2o
bobo$20bo2$6b2o$7bo7b2o$7bobo5b2o$8b2o7$18b2o$18bo$19b3o$21bo7$3o$2bo
$bo!
Vort wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 3:05 pm
[...]
Can anyone say how is it named and if should there be wiki article about it?
Also what methods are available for figuring out object's history besides asking question here on forum?
[...]
The majority of components/devices are unnamed, although might have a systematic description of some sort (for example SW-2T21 or RF28B).

In general, one good place to look is https://conwaylife.com/ref/mniemiec/lifesrch.htm "Search For Pattern"
Another page is https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object (Catagolue's identification tool).
However, those pages only work for some objects (still-lives, oscillators, spaceships). AFAIK that does not work for conduits or other components that aren't self-sufficient. For those, one would look through multiple places, including (depending on the kind of component/device) relevant forum threads, wiki pages, pattern collections.

For stable glider reflectors, check these pages:
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?titl ... did=148663
https://conwaylife.com/w/index.php?titl ... did=144962
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
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My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Citation needed » November 8th, 2024, 5:49 am

Does Catagolue have a "pseudo still life" ranking?
The natural snorkel loop that ColorfulGalaxy found has a block on it.
He wanted to rank the objects that he found.

By the way, should the snorkel loop be really natural?

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 8th, 2024, 7:14 am

Sounds like you might be interested in these tabulations. (For more information about the ruletable used to generate these, see the forum thread Common compact constellations / B3S23clustersv0.)
  • x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs44
    The snorkel loop is currently ranked #133 or #132, and its extended apgcode is xs44_0o48a6zw113_s6qnlpfz132647:

    Code: Select all

    #C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/object/xs44_0o48a6zw113_s6qnlpfz132647/x2xb3s23clustersv0
    #C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/census/x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs44
    x = 7, y = 8, rule = B3S23clustersv0
    3.4B$.3B2AB$2BA2BAB$BAB2A2B$BA4B$2B3AB$.3BAB$3.3B!
    
  • x2xb3s23clustersv0/C1/xs56
    As far as I understand, pseudo still lives matching your description ("... has a block on it.") will appear there:

    Code: Select all

    #C [[ STARTFROM 1 ]]
    x = 29, y = 18, rule = B3S23clustersv0
    5b2o$4bo2bo$5bobo$3bobob2o$3b2o3$25b2o$25b2o2$5b2o8b2o8b2o$4bo2bo6bo2b
    o6bo2bo$5bobo7bobo7bobo$2obobob2o4bobob2o4bobob2o$2ob2o8b2o8b2o2$13b2o
    $13b2o!
    
Citation needed wrote:
November 8th, 2024, 5:49 am
Does Catagolue have a "pseudo still life" ranking?
The natural snorkel loop that ColorfulGalaxy found has a block on it.
He wanted to rank the objects that he found.

By the way, should the snorkel loop be really natural?
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » November 8th, 2024, 7:50 am

User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered:

All evens up to 128 except 52,58,78,82,92,94,98,104,118,122

5-15,㉕-㉛,㉟㊺,51,63,65,73,75
1㊳㊵㊹㊼㊽,54,56,72,74,80,90,92
217,240,300,486,576

Guns: 20,21,32,54,55,57,114,117,124,126
SKOPs: 32,74,76,102,196

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by dvgrn » November 8th, 2024, 7:51 am

confocaloid wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction)...
Hmm, maybe the Snark article needs an "Etymology" section along the same lines as Herschel and quite a few other articles. The name "Snark" originates from Lewis Carroll's epic poem The Hunting of the Snark, where Snarks come in more than one form -- some have whiskers, some have feathers, etc.

It's not terribly common usage, but I think it's actually okay to use "Snark" to mean just "small 90-degree reflector". This follows the pre-2013 usage of the term, when people were looking for any small 90-degree reflector but certainly didn't care if it was color-preserving or not.

People have certainly used "Snark" in a generalized sense as a short alternative to "90-degree glider reflector", with fair regularity since the discovery of "the" Snark (Mike Playle's). An adjective in front of "Snark" makes it clear that it's not the standard Snark that's being referenced -- e.g., my "color-changing Snark", simsim314's "Spartan snark", Kazyan's "spartan snark", AlbertArmstain's "cc snark", C_R_116's "Smallest Snark?", etc.

Was anyone confused by "a CP Snark with repeat time 153 instead of a CC Snark with repeat time 167" in my message a few posts up? When "Snark" is used as a generalized term, it's usually talking about something hypothetical, and small, and preferably elementary.

So my descriptive label "transparent-pond CC Snark" was certainly pushing the boundaries of standard usage somewhat, in two different ways. The transparent-pond CC Snark isn't particularly small, and it's sort of questionable if it's even elementary.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 8th, 2024, 7:59 am

dvgrn wrote:
November 8th, 2024, 7:51 am
confocaloid wrote:
November 7th, 2024, 10:48 pm
Those stable glider reflectors aren't "Snarks".
Instead, the Snark is just a single specific 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector (merging variants that keep the same glider-reflecting reaction)...
[...]
[...]
So my descriptive label "transparent-pond CC Snark" was certainly pushing the boundaries of standard usage somewhat, in two different ways. The transparent-pond CC Snark isn't particularly small, and it's sort of questionable if it's even elementary.
I would say it is questionable to claim that a CC reflector can be "Snark" (or "snark") at all.

I always thought that there is only one reflector named Snark, which is the 90-degree colour-preserving stable glider reflector discovered by Mike Playle. (Ignoring/merging variants that keep the same reaction.)

Other glider reflectors might be stable or periodic (or even "functionally stable" when a periodic device can be used as if it was stable), dependent or independent (in the periodic case), colour-preserving or colour-changing, parity-preserving or parity-changing, 90-degree or 180-degree, with various possibilities when the exact timing is taken into account, with different repeat times, with different possibilities of overclocking or otherwise "misusing" the device beyond what it is guaranteed to do; but I would say that those other reflectors are certainly neither "snarks" nor "Snarks".

And definitely neither reflectors for other spaceships, nor glider/spaceship lane shifters, are (S|s)narks.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Timelord Missionary » November 10th, 2024, 4:44 pm

I've been trying to study faster-than-light patterns like this: (this particular one is 2c diagonal)

Code: Select all

x = 580, y = 511, rule = B3/S23
61$457b4o$456b2o2bo$454b5o$458bo$453bo2b2o$452bo3bo$454b2o$451b2ob2o$
449b2obobo$448b3o$446bo3bob2o$446bo3bo$445bo2bo$443b3obobo$443bob3o$441b
o3bo$440b2o3b2o$438b3o4bo$439bo2b3o$436bo3b2ob2o$436bo3bo2bo$437b3o$434b
obob5o$433b2o5bo$431b3o5bo$432b2o2bo$429bo$429bobo$428bobo$426b2o$425b
4o$423bo3bo$423bo2bo$422b2o2bo$421b2ob2o$419bo4bo$419b2ob2o$417bo4b2o
$416b5obo$414b2o$413b5ob3o$411bo$411bo2bo3bo$410b2o2b5o$409b2obobobo$
407bo2bobobobo$407bo2bobo$406bobobo$404b3obo2bo$404bobobo$402bobobo$402b
obo$402bo2bo$399b2obo$400bo$397b2o$396bob2o$395b2o$393b2ob2o$392bo3bo
$391b2o2bo$389b2obob2o$388bobob3o$387b2o4bo$385b2obobo2bo$384bobo2bo$
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bobo21bo$123b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo16b3o4bobobobobobobobobo
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$119b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b13o5bo4bobobobobobobobobo22bo$
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obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o9bob2o4bobobo39bo$25b2obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo18bo8b3o4bo2bobo2b39o$23b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b18o11bo5bob
obo40bo$22bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo19b
o9bo7bobo2b40o$21b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobo2b19o8bobo4b2obobo40bo$19b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobo19bo8bobo6bobo2b40o$18bobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b19o8bobo4b2obobo41bo$17b2obobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo20bo7bobo4bobobo2b41o$15b
2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b20o7bobo4b
2obobo41bo$14bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobo20bo7bobo3b2obobo2b41o$13b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobo2b20o7bobo3bobobobo42bo$11b2obobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo21bo6bobo3b2obobo2b42o$10bobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b21o6bobo2b2obo
bobo42bo$9b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bo21bo6bob4obobobo2b42o$7b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobo2b21o6bo4b2obobobo43bo$6bobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo22bo5b3o4bobobo2b43o$5b2obobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b22o4bo2bo5bobobo43b
o$3b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo22b
o5bobo4bobobo2b43o$2bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobo2b22o8bo4bobobo44bo$b2obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobo23bo6b2o5bobo2b44o$obobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b23o5bobo3b2obobo44bo$obobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo23bo5b3o5bobo2b44o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b23o4b2o
b2o2b2obobo45bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo
bobobo24bo3bo3bo2bobobo2b45o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobo2b24o3b2o3bob2obobo45bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo24bo2b2o3bo2bobobo2b45o$obobobobobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b30ob2o2bobobo46bo$obobobobob
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo32b4obobo2b46o$obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b27o2bo5bobobo46bo$obobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo31b2o2bobobo2b46o$obo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o3b2obo2bobobo47b
o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27b3o2bo4bobo2b47o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o3b2obob2obobo47b
o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bobo2bob2obobo2b
47o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obo2bobob2obob
o48bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bo2bobo4bobo2b
48o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obo2bo6bobo48bo$
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bob2o2bo3bobo2b48o$obo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b26obob2o6bobo49bo$obobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27bo3bo7bo2b49o$obobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobo2b26o10b2obo49bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobo27b2ob3o6bo2b49o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b
26ob4o5b2obo50bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo30b2o5bobo2b50o
$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25obo9b2obo50bo$obobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobobobobobo27bobo2bo3b2obo2b50o$obobobobobobobobobobobob
obobobobobo2b27o3b2o3bobobo51bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo27b
5o4b2obo2b51o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25o5b2o2b2obobo51bo$
obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo33b3obobo2b51o$obobobobobobobobobobo
bobobobobo2b24o4bo4b3obobo52bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobobo25bo11b
obo2b52o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b24o9bo3bobo52bo$obobobobobobo
bobobobobobobobo25bo11bobo2b52o$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo2b25o12bob
o53bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobobo25bo10bo2bo2b53o$obobobobobobobobobo
bobobo2b25o11b2obo53bo$obobobobobobobobobobobobo26bo9b2obo2b53o$obobo
bobobobobobobobobo2b26o11bobo54bo$obobobobobobobobobobobo26bo9b2obo2b
54o$obobobobobobobobobobo2b26o9bobobo54bo$obobobobobobobobobobo27bo8b
2obo2b54o$obobobobobobobobobo2b27o7b2obobo55bo$obobobobobobobobobo27b
o7bobobo2b55o$obobobobobobobobo2b27o7b2obobo55bo$obobobobobobobobo28b
o5b2obobo2b55o$obobobobobobobo2b28o5bobobobo56bo$obobobobobobobo28bo5b
2obobo2b56o$obobobobobobo2b28o4b2obobobo56bo$obobobobobobo29bo3bobobo
bo2b56o$obobobobobo2b29o3b2obobobo57bo$obobobobobo29bo2b2obobobo2b57o
$obobobobo2b32obobobobo57bo$obobobobo32b2obobobo2b57o$obobobo2b29o4bo
bobobo58bo$obobobo30bo4bobobo2b58o$obobo2b29o4bobobobo58bo$obobo30bo4b
obobo2b58o$obo2b30o5bobobo59bo$obo30bo3b2obobo2b59o$o2b30o5bobobo59bo
$o31bo2b2obobo2b59o$b31o2bobobobo60bo$30b2ob2obobo2b60o$28o4bobobobo60b
o$32bobobo2b60o$25o5bobobobo61bo$24bo5bobobo2b61o$23o7bobobo61bo$22bo
4b2obobo2b61o$22o6bobobo62bo$20bo4b2obobo2b62o$20o4bobobobo62bo$19bo3b
2obobo2b62o$19o2b2obobobo63bo$17b2obobobobo2b63o$15o3b3obobobo63bo$18b
obobobo2b63o$12o6bobobobo64bo$11bo3b2obobobo2b64o$10o6bobobobo64bo$9b
o3b2obobobo2b64o$9o3bobobobobo65bo$7bo3b2obobobo2b65o$7o2b2obobobobo65b
o$7b2obobobobo2b65o$5o2b2obobobobo66bo$8bobobobo2b66o!
How can I put the cut-and-pasted front end in the rle instead of putting it in manually every single generation?
And: are there any acceptable fora for the stuff I am looking at, possibly in "Other Cellular automata?"
edit: I was also going to ask if, ignoring the front end, this particular one could be "stabilized" to make a quarter-space filler, but then I realized the middle was weirdly glide-symmetric p23, so that's not going to happen unless Keith Amling does his magnetohydrodynamicks[sic] on it.
Helloshe, I like pentadecathlons and small-period motifs.
Please tell me if whatever I find is unoriginal. I would really appreciate it!
Soli Deo Gloria!

Citation needed
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by Citation needed » November 10th, 2024, 6:32 pm

Timelord Missionary wrote:
November 10th, 2024, 4:44 pm
I've been trying to study faster-than-light patterns like this: (this particular one is 2c diagonal)

Code: Select all

x rule = B3/S23
o!
How can I put the cut-and-pasted front end in the rle instead of putting it in manually every single generation?
And: are there any acceptable fora for the stuff I am looking at, possibly in "Other Cellular automata?"
edit: I was also going to ask if, ignoring the front end, this particular one could be "stabilized" to make a quarter-space filler, but then I realized the middle was weirdly glide-symmetric p23, so that's not going to happen unless Keith Amling does his magnetohydrodynamicks[sic] on it.
You can use LifeViewer scripts.

Code: Select all

x rule = B3/S23
2o$2o!
[[ PASTEMODE 3 PASTEDELTA 3 0 PASTET EVERY 1 PASTE 2o$2o! 0 0 ]]

unname4798
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by unname4798 » November 15th, 2024, 9:06 am

dvgrn wrote:
May 28th, 2024, 7:26 am
I'd advise against posting patterns in b-engine's abbreviated form, at least for the moment. The minimal header would be

Code: Select all

x=0,y=0,rule={rule}
Months passed and the actual minimal header is still this:

Code: Select all

x rule={rule}

Code: Select all

x rule=HighLife
ooo.$
...o$
...o$
...o!
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am

Do you really believe that it would be a good idea to post/share patterns in this "hacked" format, with an undocumented incomplete header? Why?
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?

The advantage of always using the documented and widely supported format, is that it is very likely to work "everywhere" as long as the software in question correctly supports the documented RLE format.
unname4798 wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 9:06 am
Months passed and the actual minimal header is still this:

Code: Select all

x rule={rule}
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by unname4798 » November 15th, 2024, 9:25 am

confocaloid wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?
I don't have Golly.
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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by b-engine » November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am

confocaloid wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 9:13 am
Do you really believe that it would be a good idea to post/share patterns in this "hacked" format, with an undocumented incomplete header? Why?
Does it always work correctly? Does it always work correctly when pasted in Golly? How about other software parsing RLEs?
I, do, as undocumented features can actually be more helpful than documented ones (there are some examples). It does work correctly, but I don't like a feature to be scrapped just because of Golly; parity isn't necessary.
If I ever write something that runs CAs, I would make this the one of the default RLE formats, ignoring whatever Golly supports.
Last edited by b-engine on November 15th, 2024, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
b-rules100th post: 18 November 2023 1000th post: 8 March 2024 10000th post:

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by hotdogPi » November 15th, 2024, 10:13 am

Unlike the previous format, this one pastes the six cells in the RLE in Golly properly. It thinks the rule is regular Life, though.
b-engine wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am
I, do, as undocumented features can actually be more helpful than documented ones (there are some examples). It does work correctly, but I don't like a feature to be scrapped just because of Golly; parity isn't necessary.
If I ever write something that runs CAs, I would make this the one of the default formats, ignoring whatever Golly supports.
Hard disagree. Formats should be standardized. For a different example of when they're not: mojibake. Also the many incompatible USB variants that thankfully got standardized, and electric vehicle chargers that I believe are in the same situation (originally different but now compatible).

What's the advantage of an undocumented feature other than just being too lazy to write the documentation?
User:HotdogPi/My discoveries

Periods discovered:

All evens up to 128 except 52,58,78,82,92,94,98,104,118,122

5-15,㉕-㉛,㉟㊺,51,63,65,73,75
1㊳㊵㊹㊼㊽,54,56,72,74,80,90,92
217,240,300,486,576

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Re: Thread for basic questions

Post by confocaloid » November 15th, 2024, 10:49 am

b-engine wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 10:09 am
The proposed 'x rule' in particular reads as meaningless gibberish.
Why "x rule"? What that is supposed to mean?
Should there be "y rule", then (which might be distinct from "x rule")?

Simplifying things a bit, a RLE snippet must begin with a header line of the form

Code: Select all

x = 314, y = 271, rule = B3/S23
where '314', '271' may be replaced by other positive integers, and 'B3/S23' may be replaced by another string that either defines a CA or refers to a .rule file with that name.
It's straightforward to read and understand the intended meaning; "x" and "y" are respectively the width and height of the pattern.

Now, there are also headerless single-line RLEs, which are fairly well-understood at this point.
There are also headers where the "rule = " part is omitted.
There are some other details and variations.

However, "x rule" doesn't fit in that scheme at all. Not only that's an undocumented nonfeature, but actually I'd like to state an explicit objection against any attempts to "document" it. The "x rule" syntax should be considered invalid/ill-formed RLE, and rejected with an error message.

Code: Select all

# python3 -m this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
127:1 B3/S234c User:Confocal/R (isotropic CA, incomplete)
Unlikely events happen.
My silence does not imply agreement, nor indifference. If I disagreed with something in the past, then please do not construe my silence as something that could change that.

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