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Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: September 30th, 2015, 8:20 pm
by biggiemac
gmc_nxtman wrote:only*
Had the code been written to support larger base tiles, generating symmetric soups would just be bit twiddling as it was in the python program. I am very interested in the possibility of increasing symmetric B3S23 soup volumes by a couple orders of magnitude, but I've proven to Adam before that I shouldn't be trusted modifying apgsearch. So here's another gentle request for him to tweak the initializion to support filling more than a 28x28 SIMD tile
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 1st, 2015, 5:57 am
by Billabob
Is it a good idea to show who discovered an object on the object's page?
Also,
this page has a strange name.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 2nd, 2015, 5:30 am
by isaacg
The user info update is awesome - thanks for adding that!
Is it feasible to extend the current "This user discovered" to more/all objects? I'm particularly interested in newly discovered still-lives, since that's all I've discovered.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 2nd, 2015, 9:54 am
by biggiemac
isaacg wrote:The user info update is awesome - thanks for adding that!
Is it feasible to extend the current "This user discovered" to more/all objects? I'm particularly interested in newly discovered still-lives, since that's all I've discovered.
I'm not too keen on that change, since with the addition of xp3 my page already bogs down anything I try to use to view it. I'm probably responsible for on the order of 10K still lives. If this is implemented I'd like to have the page display only the N most interesting objects, for some reasonable N < 200.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 2nd, 2015, 10:19 am
by calcyman
Brett Berger wrote:If this is implemented I'd like to have the page display only the N most interesting objects, for some reasonable N < 200.
How does one objectively define interestingness?
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 2nd, 2015, 10:29 am
by Scorbie
Well, I have nothing, but I think a rough guideline would be
1) Still lifes < p2 objects < everything else -- not so sure...
2) The rarer, the more interesting.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 2nd, 2015, 11:11 am
by praosylen
Scorbie wrote:Well, I have nothing, but I think a rough guideline would be
1) Still lifes < p2 objects < everything else -- not so sure...
2) The rarer, the more interesting.
I'd say also 3) The larger, the more interesting. And I also think that prime-period oscillators are more interesting that composite-period oscillators (at least for p>3).
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 3rd, 2015, 7:46 am
by Freywa
Calcyman, please add my Twitter account to the user Parcly Taxel:
Here.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 3rd, 2015, 9:05 am
by calcyman
Freywa wrote:Calcyman, please add my Twitter account to the user Parcly Taxel:
Here.
Codeholic owns the
contributors.yml file, not me. The relevant line to append is:
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 3rd, 2015, 9:28 am
by Freywa
Oh, sorry, forgot.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 4th, 2015, 8:17 pm
by Apple Bottom
If I may, here's a couple of suggestions for the Catagolue website, things that would be nice to have, in descending order of importance:
1) A lexicographically-sorted list of all rulestrings/symmetries that have been investigated, i.e. had hauls submitted.
2) Sample soup links broken down by symmetry. Using
the tumbler as an example - instead of "There are 276 sample soups in the Catagolue", followed by "•"'s in various colors (which I can never remember myself!), have it say "There are 199 C1 sample soups", "There are 10 D4_+2 sample soups", and so on.
3) For a given rulestring, an overview of all objects found in that rule, regardless of symmetry.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 6th, 2015, 12:56 pm
by gameoflifeboy
Apple Bottom wrote:1) A lexicographically-sorted list of all rulestrings/symmetries that have been investigated, i.e. had hauls submitted.
I once liked this idea so much, I tried to make such a list myself. Although I'd actually prefer to have a complete list of rules ordered by the total number of soups across all symmetries, and the rule pages telling how many soups of each symmetry were searched.
Apple Bottom wrote:2) Sample soup links broken down by symmetry. Using the tumbler as an example - instead of "There are 276 sample soups in the Catagolue", followed by "•"'s in various colors (which I can never remember myself!), have it say "There are 199 C1 sample soups", "There are 10 D4_+2 sample soups", and so on.
Hmmm... This would break the script find-object.py, which goes to catagolue and finds sample soups for a given object. I'm suggesting instead to have the symmetry of each soup display as alt text when the link is moused over.
Apple Bottom wrote:3) For a given rulestring, an overview of all objects found in that rule, regardless of symmetry.
This would be good. We could have a page displaying the most common still life of each size, the most common, or smallest (or both) oscillator of each period, the most common spaceship of each period (and maybe speed too), and the most common linear growth pattern of each period.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 6th, 2015, 1:05 pm
by biggiemac
gameoflifeboy wrote:have the symmetry of each soup display as alt text when the link is moused over.
It kind of already does that, if you count the URL preview as alt text. The URL holds the symmetry, and appears in the lower corner of the screen (for chrome at least) when you hover over a link.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 6th, 2015, 2:33 pm
by Apple Bottom
gameoflifeboy wrote:I once liked this idea so much, I tried to make such a list myself. Although I'd actually prefer to have a complete list of rules ordered by the total number of soups across all symmetries, and the rule pages telling how many soups of each symmetry were searched.
Interesting idea. I'd be happy with any list of all available censuses, so long as it's one page.
An alternative idea: separate data and presentation; make the data available in e.g. JSON format (sorta like with the user contribution pie charts), and have a bit of Javascript render it the way the user likes it.
gameoflifeboy wrote:Hmmm... This would break the script find-object.py, which goes to catagolue and finds sample soups for a given object. I'm suggesting instead to have the symmetry of each soup display as alt text when the link is moused over.
biggiemac wrote:It kind of already does that, if you count the URL preview as alt text. The URL holds the symmetry, and appears in the lower corner of the screen (for chrome at least) when you hover over a link.
There is that; but I'm more keen on knowing how many soups of each type there are for a given object, not what symmetry type a single
specific soup has. In fact learning the various colors would be easier than hovering and checking the URL and/or alt text for each soup.
Obviously breaking the script should be avoided, but couldn't there be both a list of soups, like now, and an overview over what types of soups there are? Alternatively, how easy would fixing the script be?
On a more general note this is also something that could benefit from a clean separation of data and presentation. If the script's currently screen-scraping census pages, then having a well-defined API providing machine-readable data would be a boon, and make it much easier to adjust the census pages without breaking nothing.
And on the subject of symmetry: is there a non-technical explanation of what the symmetry types mean? I found
this post David made, and I read up on rotational and dihedral symmetry on Wikipedia, but I don't quite understand the difference between, say, D4_+1 and D4_+2 yet. If my web searching skills aren't failing me, that notation's not common outside Conway Life soup-searching.
Apple Bottom wrote:This would be good. We could have a page displaying the most common still life of each size, the most common, or smallest (or both) oscillator of each period, the most common spaceship of each period (and maybe speed too), and the most common linear growth pattern of each period.
And also the usual lists of all objects of a given type, just for all symmetries combined. (Perhaps updated once per day if keeping it current all the time would be too resource-intensive/expensive.)
Speaking of spaceships, it would be awesome if spaceships' pages listed their velocities as well. And I also notice the Life wiki lists, among other things, heat, temperature and volatility. Would it be possible to eventually have those calculated automatically and displayed on census pages where appropriate?
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 11th, 2015, 8:21 pm
by Apple Bottom
Apologies for double-posting.
I noticed that some objects, e.g. the
HWSS, have "25%" and "75%" sample soups. However, the links for these are broken, likely because the percent sign is special in URLs. (And manually changing it to its encoded form doesn't give you the right soup.)
Also, a few objects still have hexadecimal nicknames:
xs19_354c8716853 (066304a102ae0118)
xs20_i5lmzdlk9 (01b202a502950136)
xs25_259arhe0ehr (063605590142055c0630)
xs26_660uhe0ehu066 (031802a81aab1aab0110)
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 11th, 2015, 8:41 pm
by biggiemac
The % fiasco was me.. I tried to add 1/4 and 3/4 average densities into the code as symmetries way back when but the string I sent had a percent sign. They should work if you change the % char into "pct".
(This is one of a few reasons for my statement earlier that Adam shouldn't trust me modifying his program)
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 12th, 2015, 3:00 pm
by flipper77
Apple Bottom wrote:...how easy would fixing the script be?
It would be very easy for me to fix the script if something like that does end up happening, so I wouldn't mind if catagolue adopted the idea of specifying number of soups with specific symmetry, not to mention that I've been thinking of how great it would be if the soups were organized that way.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 12th, 2015, 4:54 pm
by Billabob
Silly "milestones" we can expect to see soon:
(sqrt(20)^20)/20 (Roughly 19 trillion)
20/sqrt(20^-20) (Roughly 20 trillion)
13^13 (Roughly 30 trillion)
17! (Roughly 35 trillion)
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 12th, 2015, 5:22 pm
by gameoflifeboy
Billabob wrote:Silly "milestones" we can expect to see soon:
(sqrt(20)^20)/20 (Roughly 19 trillion)
20/sqrt(20^-20) (Roughly 20 trillion)
13^13 (Roughly 30 trillion)
17! (Roughly 35 trillion)
Don't forget 3^3^3 * 3, or 22,876,792,454,961. Or better yet, 3^3^3 * 3 + 3, which is 22,876,792,454,964!
Also, why is
http://catagolue.appspot.com/help/ not linked to anymore? I think it's quite a useful page.
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 12th, 2015, 11:32 pm
by gmc_nxtman
Unfortunately, I won't be able to commit any more hauls until I get a new computer that can run overnight without overheating. No more griddle variants, I guess
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 13th, 2015, 2:27 am
by Billabob
gameoflifeboy wrote:Don't forget 3^3^3 * 3, or 22,876,792,454,961. Or better yet, 3^3^3 * 3 + 3, which is 22,876,792,454,964!
I always miss the semi-obvious ones!
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 14th, 2015, 11:56 pm
by gmc_nxtman
I can't resist pointing out our perfect number of hauls right now:
- hauls.png (25.72 KiB) Viewed 15734 times
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 15th, 2015, 3:23 am
by calcyman
Billabob wrote:Silly "milestones" we can expect to see soon:
(sqrt(20)^20)/20 (Roughly 19 trillion)
20/sqrt(20^-20) (Roughly 20 trillion)
13^13 (Roughly 30 trillion)
17! (Roughly 35 trillion)
We've just passed 2 ^ 44 = 17592186044416 objects.
By the way, there are 39 different two-spaceship flotillae (see
http://codercontest.com/mniemiec/flotilla.htm) once you exclude the three pseudo-spaceships. According to Catagolue, we've found 25 of them (see
https://catagolue.appspot.com/census/b3s23/C1/xq4). Do you think that the other 14 will be found before any other natural spaceship, or that (say) a loafer may emerge first?
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 15th, 2015, 4:16 am
by codeholic
Re: apgsearch v2.2
Posted: October 15th, 2015, 8:29 pm
by Freywa
I was looking at the soup counts generated by apgsearch and I had some idea.
- Note the irregular soup counts: 11720000, 11750000, 11780000…
- A.png (49.8 KiB) Viewed 15661 times
Apparently the way OpenMP is used to parellelise the soup searches is set up such that each core gets an equal number of soups – I can see short gaps of 30000 soups here, since I'm running three cores (on a new laptop). This leads to delays when one core finishes first. Maybe when that happens, assign some of the remaining soups to it so that the workload remains equal?