Thread for basic questions

[dvgrn]

What are the smallest glider and LWSS heisenburps as of now?

Periodic glider and LWSS "true Heisenburps"? Or stable pseudo-Heisenburps?

(since we aren't going to get true Heisenburps for either gliders or LWSSes, due to the lack of usable side sparks, unless there's some really weird trick I'm not remembering for LWSSes)

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

What are the smallest glider and LWSS heisenburps as of now?

Periodic glider and LWSS "true Heisenburps"? Or stable pseudo-Heisenburps?

(since we aren't going to get true Heisenburps for either gliders or LWSSes, due to the lack of usable side sparks, unless there's some really weird trick I'm not remembering for LWSSes)

Stable ones, kinda like the one containing the 2c/3 wire

[dvgrn]

Stable ones, kinda like the one containing the 2c/3 wire...

... Huh, wow, I still have in the "Stable signal converters" list

pseudo-Heisenburp G-to-X
Recovery time 4359, November 2011. No complete rebuild with post-Snark technology known. (?)

And Guam suggested a stable LWSS pseudo-Heisenburp device in the next post, and yet I don't have any links in the list that "LWSS Heisenburp". Looks like a serious opportunity for some modernization -- or else somebody should point out whatever recent construction I've missed collecting, please!

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

Stable ones, kinda like the one containing the 2c/3 wire...

... Huh, wow, I still have in the "Stable signal converters" list

pseudo-Heisenburp G-to-X
Recovery time 4359, November 2011. No complete rebuild with post-Snark technology known. (?)

And Guam suggested a stable LWSS pseudo-Heisenburp device in the next post, and yet I don't have any links in the list that "LWSS Heisenburp". Looks like a serious opportunity for some modernization -- or else somebody should point out whatever recent construction I've missed collecting, please!

The only LWSS heisenburp I know of is my own one from 2019: User:Entity Valkyrie 2/LWSS Pseudo-heisenburp
But it neither has a highway-robbing input, nor an edge-shooting output.

[dvgrn]

The only LWSS heisenburp I know of is my own one from 2019: User:Entity Valkyrie 2/LWSS Pseudo-heisenburp
But it neither has a highway-robbing input, nor an edge-shooting output.

I definitely should have added that one, though. It's in the list now.

It's definitely an "old-school" construction, similar to what heisenburp.py shows -- use up the input, send a fast signal to get ahead of where the input would have gone, and put an input back there.

Guam's LWSS pseudo-Heisenburp design from back in 2011 was way ahead of its time -- or right at the beginning of its time, anyway. The output LWSS shows up almost instantly by comparison to the signal wire catch-up method.

Maybe it would be worth running all the octohash constellations through collisions with all possible *WSSes ... see how many clean *WSSes come out, and if any of them are cheaper than Guam's contribution.

(It could be two different *WSS->*WSS one-time converters, as long as one retimed / shifted the output in the opposite direction and amount as the other.)

Guam's constellation only needs four synchronized gliders from two directions, but I haven't checked if Guam's suggested HF+loaf -> 2G converter is compatible with it. Would have to rebuild the loaf, too, in that case.

[Haycat2009]

What are the differences between Gfind, Afind, Cfind, Zfind, Mfind, Qfind, Jfind, Pfind, Sfind, Tfind, Wfind, Yfind and Ofind? I heard about these search programs but I am not sure which I should use.

[confocaloid]

Revision as of 00:40, 26 September 2023 by Haycat2009 (talk | contribs) (Created page with "Why is there a eater 5 in Bx222?")

The claim in the article
"... that glider can only be released if the Herschel is suppressed or if staged recovery conduits are used ..."
is not quite correct.

Here is an illustration pattern that shows that that glider in Bx221.999... can be released (preceded by Fx119, followed by L198 = HLx111R RF28B BFx59H):

Code: Select all

x = 126, y = 66, rule = LifeHistory
58.A6.A$56.3A5.A.A$55.A8.A.A$55.2A6.2A.3A$52.5B7.B4.A$52.3B7.B2AB3A$
51.5B2.B3.B2A.A$48.B.13B$47.16B$47.16B$46.18B$42.2A.A18B4.2A$42.A.2A.
16B5.A$49.15B.BA.A$51.13B.B2A$50.16B$39.A10.16B$39.3A8.16B$42.A7.17B$
41.2A6.10B.8B2.2A.A$41.5B2.22BA.2A$43.26B$42.2A19B2A4B$42.2A19B2A3B$
43.B.23B$45.22B$46.21B$47.8B2.10B$48.7B2.9B$45.20B$44.21B$44.21B$22.B
21.22B$21.4B19.B3D19B$19.6B19.2BD4B.16B$17.9B18.2B3D2B3.15B$16.13B15.
6B4.16B$15.16B12.7B5.3B.7B.4B$15.16B11.8B10.6B2.4B$15.17B5.B3.8B11.2B
3D2B2.4B$14.25B.9B11.2BD4B3.4B$12.38B10.B3D4B.6B$11.39B10.16B$10.39B
11.17B$9.40B.2B8.18B20.2A$8.37B2A4B2A8.18B20.A$7.4B.26B.6B2A2B.B2A11.
11B.4B18.A$6.4B2.25B4.B2.5B2.B11.13B.4B17.2A$5.4B4.23B8.6B6.2A4.20B7.
2A8.B$4.4B5.23B10.4B7.A2.B.21B6.A.A7.3B$3.4B7.B2.20B8.B2A2B5.A.A.2A
23B6.AB6.6B$2.4B12.20B8.2A.B2A3.2A2.A.B.22B4.2B3.B2.10B$.4B15.2B.16B
10.BA.A6.A.A25B2.19B3.2B2.2B$4B19.3B.4B3CB.4B12.A7.2A.B.32BD3B2A15BD$
3B23.6BC2B2.4B11.2A10.33B2D2B2A15BDBD3.2A$2B23.5B3C2B3.4B22.21B2D11B
2D18B3DB2.2A$B23.4B.6B4.4B20.23B2D10BD21BD$23.4B2.7B4.4B17.A24BD10BD
21B$22.4B5.B.4B4.4B14.3A2.7B.22B5.13B.B$21.4B9.4B4.4B12.A5.7B3.7B.12B
5.7B.B$20.4B11.4B4.4B11.2A4.7B4.5B4.10B$19.4B13.4B4.4B16.5B6.4B5.6B.
4B$18.4B15.4B4.4B13.2AB.2B7.4B6.4B3.4B$17.4B17.4B4.4B11.A.AB10.B2AB
14.4B$16.4B19.4B4.4B10.A14.2A16.4B$15.4B21.4B4.4B8.2A33.4B!

However, even if snakes are replaced by fishhooks, it still contains a 14-cell still life (and the eater 2).

[C28]

should the Iwona active region get it's own page?

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

Revision as of 00:40, 26 September 2023 by Haycat2009 (talk | contribs) (Created page with "Why is there a eater 5 in Bx222?")

The claim in the article
"... that glider can only be released if the Herschel is suppressed or if staged recovery conduits are used ..."
is not quite correct.

Here is an illustration pattern that shows that that glider in Bx221.999... can be released (preceded by Fx119, followed by L198 = HLx111R RF28B BFx59H):

Code: Select all

x = 126, y = 66, rule = LifeHistory
58.A6.A$56.3A5.A.A$55.A8.A.A$55.2A6.2A.3A$52.5B7.B4.A$52.3B7.B2AB3A$
51.5B2.B3.B2A.A$48.B.13B$47.16B$47.16B$46.18B$42.2A.A18B4.2A$42.A.2A.
16B5.A$49.15B.BA.A$51.13B.B2A$50.16B$39.A10.16B$39.3A8.16B$42.A7.17B$
41.2A6.10B.8B2.2A.A$41.5B2.22BA.2A$43.26B$42.2A19B2A4B$42.2A19B2A3B$
43.B.23B$45.22B$46.21B$47.8B2.10B$48.7B2.9B$45.20B$44.21B$44.21B$22.B
21.22B$21.4B19.B3D19B$19.6B19.2BD4B.16B$17.9B18.2B3D2B3.15B$16.13B15.
6B4.16B$15.16B12.7B5.3B.7B.4B$15.16B11.8B10.6B2.4B$15.17B5.B3.8B11.2B
3D2B2.4B$14.25B.9B11.2BD4B3.4B$12.38B10.B3D4B.6B$11.39B10.16B$10.39B
11.17B$9.40B.2B8.18B20.2A$8.37B2A4B2A8.18B20.A$7.4B.26B.6B2A2B.B2A11.
11B.4B18.A$6.4B2.25B4.B2.5B2.B11.13B.4B17.2A$5.4B4.23B8.6B6.2A4.20B7.
2A8.B$4.4B5.23B10.4B7.A2.B.21B6.A.A7.3B$3.4B7.B2.20B8.B2A2B5.A.A.2A
23B6.AB6.6B$2.4B12.20B8.2A.B2A3.2A2.A.B.22B4.2B3.B2.10B$.4B15.2B.16B
10.BA.A6.A.A25B2.19B3.2B2.2B$4B19.3B.4B3CB.4B12.A7.2A.B.32BD3B2A15BD$
3B23.6BC2B2.4B11.2A10.33B2D2B2A15BDBD3.2A$2B23.5B3C2B3.4B22.21B2D11B
2D18B3DB2.2A$B23.4B.6B4.4B20.23B2D10BD21BD$23.4B2.7B4.4B17.A24BD10BD
21B$22.4B5.B.4B4.4B14.3A2.7B.22B5.13B.B$21.4B9.4B4.4B12.A5.7B3.7B.12B
5.7B.B$20.4B11.4B4.4B11.2A4.7B4.5B4.10B$19.4B13.4B4.4B16.5B6.4B5.6B.
4B$18.4B15.4B4.4B13.2AB.2B7.4B6.4B3.4B$17.4B17.4B4.4B11.A.AB10.B2AB
14.4B$16.4B19.4B4.4B10.A14.2A16.4B$15.4B21.4B4.4B8.2A33.4B!

However, even if snakes are replaced by fishhooks, it still contains a 14-cell still life (and the eater 2).

I had even made a H-to-G0 where one of its gliders was that glider from -that- conduit:
(however, it also contained a bookend)

Another H-to-G0 (here seen preceded by a F117). The output glider lane is in blue.

Code: Select all

x = 81, y = 75, rule = LifeHistory
4B14.2A$.4B14.A$2.4B13.A.A3.2A$3.4B13.2A3.2A$4.4B$5.4B25.2A$6.4B24.A$
7.4B21.A.A$8.4B20.2A$9.4B$10.4B5.2A$11.4B4.2A$12.4B$13.4B$14.4B$15.4B
$16.4B$17.4B$18.4B10.2A$19.4B9.A.A$20.4B10.A$17.A3.4B9.2A$16.A.A3.4B$
17.A5.4B$24.4B$25.4B$26.4B$27.4B$28.4B$29.4B$30.4B$31.4B$32.4B$16.2A
15.4B$16.2A16.4B$35.4B$36.4B$37.4B19.2E$38.4B18.E$39.4B18.E$40.4B16.
2E$41.4B24.E6.E$42.4B21.3E5.E.E$43.4B19.E8.E.E$44.4B18.2E6.2E.3E$45.
4B31.E$41.D4.4B7.2E15.2E.3E$17.2A20.D.D5.4B6.2E15.2E.E$18.A20.3D6.4B$
15.3A4.2A3.2A10.D9.4B$15.A6.A4.A2.A19.4B$20.A.A5.3A20.4B$20.2A30.4B
23.2E$28.2A.A21.3B23.E$26.3A.2A45.E.E$13.A11.A51.2E$13.3A9.2A$16.A$3.
2A10.2A$4.A$4.A.A$5.2A$28.2A15.D$28.2A15.D.D$45.3D$47.D20.2E$68.E$57.
2E10.E$5.C51.2E2.2E5.2E$5.C.C53.E.E$5.3C55.E$7.C11.2A42.2E$19.A$20.3A
$22.A!
#C [[ COLOR 5 16 16 16 ]]

I fear no man... but that thing Bx222 it scares me.

[confocaloid]

should the Iwona active region get it's own page?

Other than because it exists... If enough is known about it to write an article, why not.

The proposed page name "Iwona active region" conveys implication that 'active region' ought to mean something specific, like 'hassler' in "p58 pi-heptomino hassler". But I doubt 'active region' is something more than just informal convenience jargon.

That is to say, if you decide to create a page with that title, you might end up with yet another perplexing terminological puzzle.

[...] the more recently recognized objects, like the U-turner, Blonk-tie, two-glider octomino, etc. are not as throughtly searched yet, so there may still be some hope for conduit searches.

where can i find a list of every conduit that either accepts or outputs the Iwona active region?

I didn't find an actual list posted anywhere on the forum, although some conduits were apparently known. There is MathAndCode's draft for the Elementary Conduits Collection update, there are RLEs posted in the first post of the same thread, and there are individual conduit discoveries posted in various conduit-related threads. My impression is that not much is known for active objects other than the few common ones (H/B/R/P/G).

This active region is about as common as the blonk-tie and the U-turner, but it doesn't even have a provisional name.

That's the region from Iwona. I found some conduits with it a while back. Shall I dig them up?

[C28]

Other than because it exists... If enough is known about it to write an article, why not.

i've got a userpage (User:C28/Iwona active region‎) that could work, but first i'll have to get the infobox to function right.

[qqd]

...
i've got a userpage (User:C28/Iwona active region‎) that could work, but first i'll have to get the infobox to function right.

You need to put this p11 hassler as well, from p11 domino sparker:

Code: Select all

x = 29, y = 32, rule = B3/S23
4b2o4b2o5b2o4b2o$4b2o5bo5bo5b2o$10bo7bo$4b4o2b2o5b2o2b4o$3bo2bobobo2b
obo2bobobo2bo$3b4obo3b2ob2o3bob4o$b2o5bo11bo5b2o$o2b3o2bo11bo2b3o2bo$
2obo3bo13bo3bob2o$3bob2o15b2obo$3bo2bo15bo2bo$4b2o5b3ob3o5b2o$9b2ob2o
b2ob2o$10bobo3bobo$11bo5bo3$11bo5bo$10bobo3bobo$9b2ob2ob2ob2o$4b2o5b3o
b3o5b2o$3bo2bo15bo2bo$3bob2o15b2obo$2obo3bo13bo3bob2o$o2b3o2bo11bo2b3o
2bo$b2o5bo11bo5b2o$3b4obo3b2ob2o3bob4o$3bo2bobobo2bobo2bobobo2bo$4b4o
2b2o5b2o2b4o$10bo7bo$4b2o5bo5bo5b2o$4b2o4b2o5b2o4b2o!

[Entity Valkyrie 2]

How exactly does the 15G RCT delete the incredibly large amount of ash that the GPSEs produce?

[dvgrn]

How exactly does the 15G RCT delete the incredibly large amount of ash that the GPSEs produce?

That's an easy one! It builds fleets of Corderships at the near end of the GPSE trails. The Corderships travel along the ash and gradually erode it away, and then get caught by Corderabsorbers that have been carefully built at the far ends, by glider salvos racing ahead of the Corderships.

Here's a LifeViewer animation showing the construction of the SW-traveling Corderships, and their absorbtion by the SW Corderabsorbers.

Here's a sample pattern showing the construction of the first two Corderships in the SE-traveling Corderfleet, in context with some sample GPSE ash.

And here is the test pattern for the NW Corderfleet, and some extended discussion of the code that generated the slow salvos needed to build the SE Corderfleet (and the others).

Somewhere I'm sure I've got a test pattern that showed all three Corderfleets near the epicentre of the RCT, in context with samples of the ash they cleaned up, but unless someone can provide the link, I won't be able to lay hands on it till I get back to my other laptop next week.

[TYCF]

What is the definition of a engineered diehard?

[confocaloid]

What is the definition of a engineered diehard?

The current revision of engineered diehard does not start with any direct definition, and instead goes directly to discuss the topic. I think this is fine; some topics are sufficiently self-explanatory and do not need an explicit definition. (One could write something that essentially means "an engineered diehard is a diehard that is engineered / artificial", but in what way it would be helpful in an encyclopedia?)

[TYCF]

What is this agar called?

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 18, rule = B3/S23:T18,18
3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3bobo$3b3o
3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3b
obo$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bo
bo3bobo3bobo$3b3o3b3o3b3o!

[Haycat2009]

What is this agar called?

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 18, rule = B3/S23:T18,18
3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3bobo$3b3o
3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3b
obo$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bo
bo3bobo3bobo$3b3o3b3o3b3o!

A modified version of onion rings. Although, it reminds me of the self-forcing p2 agar patch.

[Haycat2009]

How exactly does the 15G RCT delete the incredibly large amount of ash that the GPSEs produce?

That's an easy one! It builds fleets of Corderships at the near end of the GPSE trails. The Corderships travel along the ash and gradually erode it away, and then get caught by Corderabsorbers that have been carefully built at the far ends, by glider salvos racing ahead of the Corderships.

Here's a LifeViewer animation showing the construction of the SW-traveling Corderships, and their absorbtion by the SW Corderabsorbers.

Here's a sample pattern showing the construction of the first two Corderships in the SE-traveling Corderfleet, in context with some sample GPSE ash.

And here is the test pattern for the NW Corderfleet, and some extended discussion of the code that generated the slow salvos needed to build the SE Corderfleet (and the others).

Somewhere I'm sure I've got a test pattern that showed all three Corderfleets near the epicentre of the RCT, in context with samples of the ash they cleaned up, but unless someone can provide the link, I won't be able to lay hands on it till I get back to my other laptop next week.

Then how are the cordership eaters deleted?

[dvgrn]

What is this agar called?

Code: Select all

x = 18, y = 18, rule = B3/S23:T18,18
3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3bobo$3b3o
3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bobo3bobo3b
obo$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3o3b3o3b3o$obo3bobo3bobo$3o3b3o3b3o$3b3o3b3o3b3o$3bo
bo3bobo3bobo$3b3o3b3o3b3o!

A modified version of onion rings. Although, it reminds me of the self-forcing p2 agar patch.

Hmm. I don't know if I'd call it "a modified version of onion rings". An important feature of the onion-rings agars is that they're all infinite plane-covering still lifes, not period-2. I haven't looked very hard to see if this p2 agar has a name; a lot of agars don't. It's not one of the stabilized p2 agars in the oscillator stamp collection, anyway.

Then how are the cordership eaters deleted?

Try running the LifeViewer animation that I linked to. They're not "Cordership eaters", they're Corderabsorbers -- very conveniently, they mutually annihilate with the Corderships.

[C28]

the index fossil wiki page mentions a 37-bit still life that forms from "a Herschel, beehive, and block, plus the same unnamed small active pattern." what configuration of the aforementioned objects is the article referring to, since looking at the 3 C1 soups from Catagolue, all of them seem to make the still life via some slight variation of the below pattern?

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
26bo$2b2o22bo$bobo22bo$bo$3o6$28b2o$27bo2bo$28b2o5$8b2o$8b2o!

[rattlesnake]

Why does the CC semi-Snark use a boat instead of a tub? Is it because the boat is easier to synthesise (2G for boat vs 3G for tub)?

[confocaloid]

the index fossil wiki page mentions a 37-bit still life that forms from "a Herschel, beehive, and block, plus the same unnamed small active pattern." what configuration of the aforementioned objects is the article referring to, since looking at the 3 C1 soups from Catagolue, all of them seem to make the still life via some slight variation of the below pattern?

Code: Select all

x = 31, y = 19, rule = B3/S23
26bo$2b2o22bo$bobo22bo$bo$3o6$28b2o$27bo2bo$28b2o5$8b2o$8b2o!

It is this:

Code: Select all

x = 27, y = 15, rule = B3/S23
18b2o$17bo2bo$18b2o5$2bo21b3o$obo21b3o$3o9b2o$o11b2o10b2o$22b2o2bo$22b
3o$21bo2bo$22bo!

Soups:

Code: Select all

#C [[ STOP 38 ]]
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/C1/l_stAG5e7GCFvR31827246/b3s23
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
bobooobbboboobob$
oboboobobboboooo$
obbobobbobobbboo$
bobbbobobboobobb$
ooobobobboooobob$
obbbbobbbboooboo$
bbbobooobobbooob$
oooobobooobboobo$
bobboobobooboobo$
ooooobbobbobobbo$
boooobobobobbboo$
bbbobooboboobooo$
oobbooboboobboob$
bbobbbbobboooboo$
booobbboboobbboo$
obbbbbobbobbbooo!

Code: Select all

#C [[ STOP 33 ]]
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/C1/k_fNFDFJmnUnVJ6147744/b3s23
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oboobbbbbobobooo$
oobbbbbooobbboob$
boboooobbbbbboob$
ooboobooobbbbbbb$
booboobbbooobbob$
bobbboobobooboob$
bbbbbboobboooobb$
bbbooooboobbboob$
obobbbobbobbboob$
ooooboboooobboob$
bobbboooobbbooob$
oobboobooboobbob$
bbbbboobboboobbb$
booboboobbobbobb$
boobbobooobbbbob$
bbboobobbbbbooob!

Code: Select all

#C [[ STOP 51 ]]
#C https://catagolue.hatsya.com/hashsoup/C1/c_qhWiVR9E4W3w42578481/b3s23
x = 16, y = 16, rule = B3/S23
oobbboooooobboob$
oboooboooboooooo$
boooobbbbobobboo$
booooobobobooooo$
bobboobbbooobooo$
bobbbobobooobboo$
bbbobobbbbbobboo$
oooobbboobboooob$
ooboboboobobbobo$
boooooobbooboooo$
obobbbooboooobbb$
oobbboooboooobob$
oobbbobobooobboo$
boobbbboobooobbb$
ooobbobbboobobbb$
oobbobbooboobobb!

[Haycat2009]

Are there any elementary conduits without staged recovery that have a step of 300+ generations? Also, what is the full list of elementary conduits excluding X-G conduits, and can I have it in an Lifeviewer?

[confocaloid]

Are there any elementary conduits without staged recovery that have a step of 300+ generations?

Looking at the HL224H/L224 conduit by Kazyan and this "most convoluted r-to-b" by Jormungant, I think there should be "similar" examples somewhere in the space of all elementary conduits, with several hundreds of ticks between the input and the output. I guess people were not searching for such conduits specifically. Those are likely to have high repeat time; unless one is interested in collecting elementary conduits themselves, "practical" uses often require sufficiently low repeat time.
Compact examples could be "useful" as delay devices, if the reaction is contained in a small bounding box for a long time.

Also, what is the full list of elementary conduits excluding X-G conduits, and can I have it in an Lifeviewer?

I think one of recent updates/collections was posted here: viewtopic.php?p=164613#p164613
There can be no "full list", and collections of known conduits become outdated pretty quickly as soon as new conduits are discovered.